Baking (rec.food.baking) For bakers, would-be bakers, and fans and consumers of breads, pastries, cakes, pies, cookies, crackers, bagels, and other items commonly found in a bakery. Includes all methods of preparation, both conventional and not.

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Old 22-03-2005, 10:37 PM
Roger
 
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I don't think there is anything wrong with your recipe, I'd disagree
with the previous poster about reducing the oil, but that is strictly a
matter of taste.

If the dough is too sticky knead in more flour. Because flours vary a
lot in their exact composition and moisture content (the same lot of
flour will vary a little with seasonal changes in humidity) you need to
do this by feel rather than by a strict recipe. It's usually most
convenient to set the moisture content and then knead flour in until it
feels right. I think pizza dough should be on the wet side--flour your
hands and board to keep from sticking too much.

When it is too elastic let it rest, per the other response. You want to
be gentle when pulling the dough out into shape. I thought tossing was
only in the cartoons--seems like a hard way to go about it :-).

Roger


Sridhar Sathya wrote:
When I make pizza dough it raises well, around double the size in about
45 minutes. The problem with my dough is it is too gooie and I'm not
able to toss it. Even when I try to knead it it is too elastic and
shrinks as I knead the dough.


I follow the following recipe (I use a bread machine for making the dough).
1 tablespoon sugar
1 1/4 cup water
1 teaspoon yeast
3 cups bread flour
1 teaspoon salt
1/4 cup oil.


Any suggestions?


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Old 22-03-2005, 11:12 PM
Eric Jorgensen
 
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Default Pizza Dough

On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 16:54:50 -0500
Sridhar Sathya wrote:

When I make pizza dough it raises well, around double the size in about
45 minutes. The problem with my dough is it is too gooie and I'm not
able to toss it. Even when I try to knead it it is too elastic and
shrinks as I knead the dough.


I follow the following recipe (I use a bread machine for making the
dough). 1 tablespoon sugar
1 1/4 cup water
1 teaspoon yeast
3 cups bread flour
1 teaspoon salt
1/4 cup oil.



I agree with Vox that your pizza dough sounds really heavy on the oil. A
tablespoon at the most.

It's hard to know how you define gooey. tossing is overrated and mostly
theater. Sounds like perhaps it's too dense?

Like Vox said, if it's too springy it may just need to rest, but i agree
with Roger that maybe it's too dry. I do find that i get the best
performance out of my pizza dough when the hydration level is high enough
that the dough is a little sticky. just have flour handy to sprinkle with
while you work it.

It's Really Easy to get more than '1 cup' of flour into that cup. Try
again and stop adding flour when the dough is just a little sticky.

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Old 23-03-2005, 12:03 AM
Vox Humana
 
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"Eric Jorgensen" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 16:54:50 -0500
Sridhar Sathya wrote:

When I make pizza dough it raises well, around double the size in about
45 minutes. The problem with my dough is it is too gooie and I'm not
able to toss it. Even when I try to knead it it is too elastic and
shrinks as I knead the dough.


I follow the following recipe (I use a bread machine for making the
dough). 1 tablespoon sugar
1 1/4 cup water
1 teaspoon yeast
3 cups bread flour
1 teaspoon salt
1/4 cup oil.



I agree with Vox that your pizza dough sounds really heavy on the oil.

A
tablespoon at the most.

It's hard to know how you define gooey. tossing is overrated and mostly
theater. Sounds like perhaps it's too dense?

Like Vox said, if it's too springy it may just need to rest, but i

agree
with Roger that maybe it's too dry. I do find that i get the best
performance out of my pizza dough when the hydration level is high enough
that the dough is a little sticky. just have flour handy to sprinkle with
while you work it.

It's Really Easy to get more than '1 cup' of flour into that cup. Try
again and stop adding flour when the dough is just a little sticky.


I don't really measure the flour or the water. I just put enough flour to
come up the shoulder on my food processor's bade, put in about a tablespoon
of oil, a teaspoon of salt, and a scant tablespoon of instant yeast. I turn
on the machine and add very hot tap water in a slow stream until the dough
forms a ball that tends to stick to the sides of the bowl. I let that knead
for about a minute, and then remove it. The important thing is that you
have the proper ratio of liquid to flour.

I think that four tablespoons of oil to a pound of flour is pretty high. I
have looked at a lot of recipes, and I don't ever recall seeing that much
oil for a scant pound (3 cups) of flour. But, if it works for the OP and he
likes it, then I say go for it.



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Old 23-03-2005, 12:28 AM
Eric Jorgensen
 
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On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 00:03:13 GMT
"Vox Humana" wrote:


"Eric Jorgensen" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 16:54:50 -0500
Sridhar Sathya wrote:

When I make pizza dough it raises well, around double the size in
about 45 minutes. The problem with my dough is it is too gooie and
I'm not able to toss it. Even when I try to knead it it is too
elastic and shrinks as I knead the dough.


I follow the following recipe (I use a bread machine for making the
dough). 1 tablespoon sugar
1 1/4 cup water
1 teaspoon yeast
3 cups bread flour
1 teaspoon salt
1/4 cup oil.



I agree with Vox that your pizza dough sounds really heavy on the
oil.

A
tablespoon at the most.

It's hard to know how you define gooey. tossing is overrated and
mostly
theater. Sounds like perhaps it's too dense?

Like Vox said, if it's too springy it may just need to rest, but i

agree
with Roger that maybe it's too dry. I do find that i get the best
performance out of my pizza dough when the hydration level is high
enough that the dough is a little sticky. just have flour handy to
sprinkle with while you work it.

It's Really Easy to get more than '1 cup' of flour into that cup.
Try
again and stop adding flour when the dough is just a little sticky.


I don't really measure the flour or the water. I just put enough flour
to come up the shoulder on my food processor's bade, put in about a
tablespoon of oil, a teaspoon of salt, and a scant tablespoon of instant
yeast. I turn on the machine and add very hot tap water in a slow stream
until the dough forms a ball that tends to stick to the sides of the
bowl. I let that knead for about a minute, and then remove it. The
important thing is that you have the proper ratio of liquid to flour.



It's my guess that most people blindly follow a recipe without paying
any attention to ratios. That would work ok if it told them which method to
use when measuring flour.

Some people get a 1c scoop and shove it into an open bag, and get
considerably more in 1 cup than they would had they poured the contents of
the bag into a container and then used a regular measuring cup and the
scoop & sweep method, for example.


I think that four tablespoons of oil to a pound of flour is pretty high.
I have looked at a lot of recipes, and I don't ever recall seeing that
much oil for a scant pound (3 cups) of flour. But, if it works for the
OP and he likes it, then I say go for it.



I start to think my pizza dough is way too greasy when i hit about 2
tablespoons of oil per pound of flour. I don't want to think about what
four would be like. But yeah, if it's what he's going for, whatever.

My Fibrament stone arrived this morning. May be making pizza tonight . .
..
  #5 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 23-03-2005, 01:13 AM
Vox Humana
 
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"Eric Jorgensen" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 00:03:13 GMT



My Fibrament stone arrived this morning. May be making pizza tonight .

..

The food network was big on pizza this weekend and it got me motivated to
make one. I whiped out at big one (pizza that is) on Sunday. I have been
lazy and have baked most of the recent pizzas in my small microwave
convection oven in a pizza pan. On Sunday, I heated up the main oven with my
stone and baked the pizza the right way for a change. I kept is simple with
a minimum of sauce and a minimumof toppings. It was wonderful. Nothing
beats the basics.


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Old 23-03-2005, 04:16 AM
Eric Jorgensen
 
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On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 01:13:47 GMT
"Vox Humana" wrote:


"Eric Jorgensen" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 00:03:13 GMT



My Fibrament stone arrived this morning. May be making pizza tonight
.

.

The food network was big on pizza this weekend and it got me motivated to
make one. I whiped out at big one (pizza that is) on Sunday. I have
been lazy and have baked most of the recent pizzas in my small microwave
convection oven in a pizza pan. On Sunday, I heated up the main oven with
my stone and baked the pizza the right way for a change. I kept is
simple with a minimum of sauce and a minimumof toppings. It was
wonderful. Nothing beats the basics.



Well, the joke was on me - a new fibrament stone requires a 6 hour
drying cycle in the oven before use. increment 100 degrees per hour,
standing at 500 degrees for two hours.

So, I'll be staying up late to turn off the oven at the end of the
cycle, perhaps I'll get to take the thing for a spin tomorrow night.

You're right about simplicity - one of the tougher lessons in home pizza
making is when "lots of cheese" becomes too much. It doesn't matter how
much you like cheese (and I have at least 7 kinds in my fridge), you
rapidly reach a point where the pizza and indeed the cheese on it is less
enjoyable for there being so much of it.

Two weeks ago I got roped into baking 14 calzones for my twin nephews
13th birthday party. It started out being "How the heck did this happen!?"
and "Why are you looking at me? I like my toppings *browned!" and ended up
being a pretty enjoyable experience. Also made me again jealous of the inch
thick ceramic stone in my parents oven.

  #7 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 23-03-2005, 06:43 AM
Joe Yudelson
 
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Hi: Try all-purpose flour. Bread flour requires a good amount of kneading.
I would also reduce the oil to 1 tb. of olive oil.

Joe
"Sridhar Sathya" wrote in message
...
When I make pizza dough it raises well, around double the size in about 45
minutes. The problem with my dough is it is too gooie and I'm not able to
toss it. Even when I try to knead it it is too elastic and shrinks as I
knead the dough.


I follow the following recipe (I use a bread machine for making the
dough).
1 tablespoon sugar
1 1/4 cup water
1 teaspoon yeast
3 cups bread flour
1 teaspoon salt
1/4 cup oil.


Any suggestions?



  #8 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 23-03-2005, 06:43 AM
Joe Yudelson
 
Posts: n/a
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Hi: Try all-purpose flour. Bread flour requires a good amount of kneading.
I would also reduce the oil to 1 tb. of olive oil.

Joe
"Sridhar Sathya" wrote in message
...
When I make pizza dough it raises well, around double the size in about 45
minutes. The problem with my dough is it is too gooie and I'm not able to
toss it. Even when I try to knead it it is too elastic and shrinks as I
knead the dough.


I follow the following recipe (I use a bread machine for making the
dough).
1 tablespoon sugar
1 1/4 cup water
1 teaspoon yeast
3 cups bread flour
1 teaspoon salt
1/4 cup oil.


Any suggestions?



  #9 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 23-03-2005, 11:36 AM
Ida Slapter
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 16:12:19 -0700, Eric Jorgensen
wrote:

When I make pizza dough it raises well, around double the size in about
45 minutes. The problem with my dough is it is too gooie


When you continue with the same recipe and get the same results...it
might be time to change the recipe.

This is from Fine Cooking and works perfectly every time......

@@@@@ Now You're Cooking! Export Format

Pizza Dough/Fine Cooking

breads, italian

2 1/4 ts yeast
1 1/2 c warm water; 110F
18 oz bread flour
plus more for dusting
1 1/2 ts salt
2 ts olive oil

Dissolve the yeast in the warm water and set aside.

Meanwhile, put the flour and salt in a food processor fitted with the
steel
blade. Process briefly to mix. With the machine runni8ng, add the
water-yeast mixture in a steady stream. Turn the processor off and add
the
oil. Pulse a few times to mix in the oil.

Divide the dough. Scrape the soft doughty out of the processor and
onto a
lightly floured surface. With lightly floured hands, quickly knead the
doughty in a mass incorporating any bits of flour or doughty from the
processor bowl that wasn't mixed in.

Cut dough into four equal pieces with a dough scrapper. Roll each
piece
into a tight smooth ball, kneading to push out all the air.

Proceed as usual.

Extra pieces of doughty will freeze very well. Cover with extra flour
and
seal and freeze in a quart zip lock bag for future use.


** Exported from Now You're Cooking! v5.66 **



The Fine Art of Cooking involves personal choice.
Many preferences, ingredients, and procedures may not
be consistent with what you know to be true.
As with any recipe, you may find your personal
intervention will be necessary. Bon Appetit!
  #10 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 23-03-2005, 11:36 AM
Ida Slapter
 
Posts: n/a
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On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 16:12:19 -0700, Eric Jorgensen
wrote:

When I make pizza dough it raises well, around double the size in about
45 minutes. The problem with my dough is it is too gooie


When you continue with the same recipe and get the same results...it
might be time to change the recipe.

This is from Fine Cooking and works perfectly every time......

@@@@@ Now You're Cooking! Export Format

Pizza Dough/Fine Cooking

breads, italian

2 1/4 ts yeast
1 1/2 c warm water; 110F
18 oz bread flour
plus more for dusting
1 1/2 ts salt
2 ts olive oil

Dissolve the yeast in the warm water and set aside.

Meanwhile, put the flour and salt in a food processor fitted with the
steel
blade. Process briefly to mix. With the machine runni8ng, add the
water-yeast mixture in a steady stream. Turn the processor off and add
the
oil. Pulse a few times to mix in the oil.

Divide the dough. Scrape the soft doughty out of the processor and
onto a
lightly floured surface. With lightly floured hands, quickly knead the
doughty in a mass incorporating any bits of flour or doughty from the
processor bowl that wasn't mixed in.

Cut dough into four equal pieces with a dough scrapper. Roll each
piece
into a tight smooth ball, kneading to push out all the air.

Proceed as usual.

Extra pieces of doughty will freeze very well. Cover with extra flour
and
seal and freeze in a quart zip lock bag for future use.


** Exported from Now You're Cooking! v5.66 **



The Fine Art of Cooking involves personal choice.
Many preferences, ingredients, and procedures may not
be consistent with what you know to be true.
As with any recipe, you may find your personal
intervention will be necessary. Bon Appetit!


  #11 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 23-03-2005, 04:33 PM
Vox Humana
 
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"Ida Slapter" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 16:12:19 -0700, Eric Jorgensen
wrote:

When I make pizza dough it raises well, around double the size in about
45 minutes. The problem with my dough is it is too gooie


When you continue with the same recipe and get the same results...it
might be time to change the recipe.

This is from Fine Cooking and works perfectly every time......

@@@@@ Now You're Cooking! Export Format

Pizza Dough/Fine Cooking

breads, italian

2 1/4 ts yeast
1 1/2 c warm water; 110F
18 oz bread flour
plus more for dusting
1 1/2 ts salt
2 ts olive oil

Dissolve the yeast in the warm water and set aside.

Meanwhile, put the flour and salt in a food processor fitted with the
steel
blade. Process briefly to mix. With the machine runni8ng, add the
water-yeast mixture in a steady stream. Turn the processor off and add
the
oil. Pulse a few times to mix in the oil.

Divide the dough. Scrape the soft doughty out of the processor and
onto a
lightly floured surface. With lightly floured hands, quickly knead the
doughty in a mass incorporating any bits of flour or doughty from the
processor bowl that wasn't mixed in.

Cut dough into four equal pieces with a dough scrapper. Roll each
piece
into a tight smooth ball, kneading to push out all the air.

Proceed as usual.

Extra pieces of doughty will freeze very well. Cover with extra flour
and
seal and freeze in a quart zip lock bag for future use.


That is basically my recipe and technique. It works well.


  #12 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 23-03-2005, 07:35 PM
floydm
 
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Yeah, I'd cut way back on the oil and not worry about tossing. You
don't need to toss to make good pizza. Stretch the dough gently and
when it won't give any more without tearing, let it rest for 10 or 15.
Then stretch some more.

A piece I wrote on pizza dough, with a recipe and shaping info is at:

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/modules/...php?storyid=21

-F

  #13 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 23-03-2005, 07:53 PM
Roy
 
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When I make pizza dough it raises well, around double the size in

about
45 minutes. The problem with my dough is it is too gooie and I'm not
able to toss it. Even when I try to knead it it is too elastic and
shrinks as I knead the dough.
I follow the following recipe (I use a bread machine for making the

dough).
1 tablespoon sugar
1 1/4 cup water
1 teaspoon yeast
3 cups bread flour
1 teaspoon salt
1/4 cup oil

..
Any suggestions?

Hmmnn....
Calculating your ingredient ratios....

Flour 100%
Sugar 3%
Water 69%
Yeast 0.8%
Salt 1.2
Oil 14%

Your recipe is wet...you should slightly increase your flour if that is
easier for you to do.... Or reduce the water to make it easier to
handle.
Do not try to reduce the amount of oil as you are using a very strong
flour and you had problems with excessive elasticity and shrinkage.And
you had no problem with that..
To ,minimize elasticity and shrinkage: (1) that do not overmix the
dough but just halfway and not more than two thirds developed and
that;s it. Pizzas with really strong flour when overmixed tends to be
too tough to handle and manipulate.
(2) Do not add the oil immediately at the start of mixing rather As
that will slow down the water absoprtion rate. But latter when it has
attained integrity or start to develop then gradually add the oil.
(3)When done take it out from the mixer and bulk ferment it then
divide into requires sizes and round,
(4) Rest for sufficient time or chill for several hours so that the
dough will be really extensible.
Be sure to watch dough temperature. If the dough comes out warm its
tends to be tough to manipulate than when its cool. That is why its
recommendable to chill the pizza dough before using it and it will come
out fine.
Roy

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Old 23-03-2005, 10:53 PM
Sridhar Sathya
 
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Thanks for your suggestions. As suggested I reduced the oil &
water(little less); also I let the dough stand in the refrigerator for
about 10 hours. Now I'm able to handle the dough very well.


Sridhar Sathya wrote:
When I make pizza dough it raises well, around double the size in about
45 minutes. The problem with my dough is it is too gooie and I'm not
able to toss it. Even when I try to knead it it is too elastic and
shrinks as I knead the dough.


I follow the following recipe (I use a bread machine for making the dough).
1 tablespoon sugar
1 1/4 cup water
1 teaspoon yeast
3 cups bread flour
1 teaspoon salt
1/4 cup oil.


Any suggestions?

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Old 24-03-2005, 02:29 AM
Vox Humana
 
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"Sridhar Sathya" wrote in message
...
Thanks for your suggestions. As suggested I reduced the oil &
water(little less); also I let the dough stand in the refrigerator for
about 10 hours. Now I'm able to handle the dough very well.



Good to hear! Also, you may notice an improvment in the flavor and texture
of the dough from retarding the fermentation. I think that letting the
dough rise in the refrigerator allows you to make pizzas in a more impromptu
manner. The dough will keep for a few days before becoming too sour, so you
have flexibility to make the dough when you have a few minutes and then make
up the pizza when you are ready to eat.




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