Tea (rec.drink.tea) Discussion relating to tea, the world's second most consumed beverage (after water), made by infusing or boiling the leaves of the tea plant (C. sinensis or close relatives) in water.

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  #16 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 20-06-2005, 10:07 PM
Mike Petro
 
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Space Cowboy wrote:
TaoBao is a market place where you can check prices in the current
Chinese economy. I've been doing that since I found it. All I'm
saying you can find plenty of 10 year pu for $30.


TaoBao appears quite similar to our Ebay, as in buyer beware because
the sellers may or may not be reputable and the goods may or may not be
authentic. I would not trust their goods any more than I would trust
somebody on Ebay, and Ebay is rife with scam artists especially when
dealing in antique goods (such as aged puerh). Yes there are good
dealers there but one would need to know the culture really well before
venturing into those waters.

I think to pretend that there is any
real market for aged pu is misinformation. The high pricing is based
on limited collectors and not demand.


Nobody is "pretending" Jim, it is a fact that I have personally
confirmed many times over. To say that it is misinformation would be
like saying that a "wine collector's market" in the USA is also
misinformation. The two genres are extremely similar in their
respective cultures, both in popularity and in fanaticism. Many people
in China boast about their puerh collections, and it is quite true that
few of them will ever really sell, only the speculators and those in
need of cash actually sell. It is common for a guest to be shown this
collection, although most Western guests fail to realize the pride that
their host is really exhibiting. The high demand is further
demonstrated by that fact that wholesale prices for young Puerh have
tripled this year compared to the same time last year. This has been
attributed to a bad growing season AND higher than ever demand. The
existance of so many forgeries also substantiates the demand, if there
were no demand there would be no market for forgeries. Finally let us
not forget the laws of supply and demand, the reality is that the
demand exceeds the supply hence the high prices.

I haven't seen any of the big ticket items on TaoBao sell.


The main reason is that very few Chinese collectors will buy a cake
without first seeing, smelling, and tasting it. To try a tea before you
buy is definitely the custom in China, collectors will often bring
their own teas to brew and compare to the prospective purchase as a
means of authenticating it. So why would they buy an aged cake site
unseen? It is like asking to get ripped off.

Mike Petro
http://www.pu-erh.net


  #17 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 20-06-2005, 11:32 PM
Alex Chaihorsky
 
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"Lewis Perin" wrote in message
news
Renny writes:

[...]

Most people don't even realize that GongFuCha is the only way to
actually


I'm having trouble thinking of a way to complete this sentence to make
it true. Any suggestions?

/Lew


My suggestion :
"Most people don't even realize that GongFuCha is the only way to actually"
reliably seduce women for less than $5.00 with unparalleled success
statistics.

Sasha.


  #18 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 20-06-2005, 11:53 PM
Austin Hodge
 
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Mike is absolutely right. Don't expect to see good prices for authentic
puer going into the future. The rest of China has discovered puer, and
there are high prices being asked in Bejing and Shanghai now, where as
in the past, demand had been limited in Hong Kong, Taiwan, and
Guangzhou. There are numberous buyers trying to buy up all of the
available puer stores. The Chinese universally agree that puer is a
good investment. There is plenty enough fraud involved in this market
and there has been since the end of the cultural revolution when having
destroyed most old cakes, a thriving market in old puer emerged. Since
the government was the major puer producer, and still is by the way,
the corruption was supported by the law in Yunnan, where it was illegal
to publish a date on any puer on the market. Buyer beware indeed.
People who are collectors do thier homework, and there are recognized
dealers that offer verification of date. This verification is only
valid within a couple of years one way or the other, and involves
examination of the cake, color, smell, and taste. Color, taste, and
smell can not be faked. What the market will bare is the rule. There
are plenty of people that will spend high prices and never blink an eye
about it. The good news is that standards have been established for
puer now, and you don't have to be an expert to sort through these, and
that newly produced puer is very good. It takes about 5 or 6 years for
raw puer to darken and mellow, but there are plenty of people that
enjoy it young, green, and a little bit bitter. Puer is certainly an
obsession, and one that I must admit to having too. If you see some
cheap puer laying around in some store somewhere, and it is still
cheap, I'd recommend buying it up and hang on to it.
I wanted to say also that the assertion that it is healther to brew tea
in one way or another is bizzarre. There is an enormous amount of
research being carried out in the US alone with extremely positive
results. The tea is donated and is not really worth drinking and those
folks doing the testing have never even heard of Yixing.

  #19 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 21-06-2005, 12:25 AM
Space Cowboy
 
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Here is a search string for Guang Yun Gong on TaoBao:

http://216.239.39.104/translate_c?hl...nd-0-all-0.htm

You have to enter Simplified characters and not Unicode for search
strings so it isn't as easy as it looks. Plus TaoBao only searches the
title and not description.

As of this post you will see 70's Guang Yun Gong for $20. You will see
a tong like bundle from 1980 for $110. What was your 60's price again,
something like $800. You pay alot for those blemishes. I'll stick
with fair market value and you buy from the collectors. If every
potential serious buyer wants a sample then eventually there is nothing
to sell. I think the wine analogy is essentially false because it is
ultimately consumed. The bottle and cork might be worth something.
One on my collection genres extends to the 1900s. Thank goodness you
can't eat or drink it. I can tell you haven't done any serious
collecting except paying too much for your tea. You're on the outside
looking in. High prices are simply for the gullible. No serious
collector will tell you what he paid for anything. You'll never get
your money back if you buy at auction. For insurance purposes I'm much
further ahead if my house burns down.

Jim

Mike Petro wrote:
Space Cowboy wrote:
TaoBao is a market place where you can check prices in the current
Chinese economy. I've been doing that since I found it. All I'm
saying you can find plenty of 10 year pu for $30.


TaoBao appears quite similar to our Ebay, as in buyer beware because
the sellers may or may not be reputable and the goods may or may not be
authentic. I would not trust their goods any more than I would trust
somebody on Ebay, and Ebay is rife with scam artists especially when
dealing in antique goods (such as aged puerh). Yes there are good
dealers there but one would need to know the culture really well before
venturing into those waters.

I think to pretend that there is any
real market for aged pu is misinformation. The high pricing is based
on limited collectors and not demand.


Nobody is "pretending" Jim, it is a fact that I have personally
confirmed many times over. To say that it is misinformation would be
like saying that a "wine collector's market" in the USA is also
misinformation. The two genres are extremely similar in their
respective cultures, both in popularity and in fanaticism. Many people
in China boast about their puerh collections, and it is quite true that
few of them will ever really sell, only the speculators and those in
need of cash actually sell. It is common for a guest to be shown this
collection, although most Western guests fail to realize the pride that
their host is really exhibiting. The high demand is further
demonstrated by that fact that wholesale prices for young Puerh have
tripled this year compared to the same time last year. This has been
attributed to a bad growing season AND higher than ever demand. The
existance of so many forgeries also substantiates the demand, if there
were no demand there would be no market for forgeries. Finally let us
not forget the laws of supply and demand, the reality is that the
demand exceeds the supply hence the high prices.

I haven't seen any of the big ticket items on TaoBao sell.


The main reason is that very few Chinese collectors will buy a cake
without first seeing, smelling, and tasting it. To try a tea before you
buy is definitely the custom in China, collectors will often bring
their own teas to brew and compare to the prospective purchase as a
means of authenticating it. So why would they buy an aged cake site
unseen? It is like asking to get ripped off.

Mike Petro


  #20 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 21-06-2005, 07:24 AM
SEb
 
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[Renny]
Most people don't even realize that GongFuCha is the only way to
actually all the health benefits of tea they so highly value (most
brewing destroys these things or never makes them available even when
you start with a good tea).

[Seb]
Could you tell please where you had the information that gong fu tea is
the only way to benefit the health value of tea. I only brew gong fu
tea so i am very interested in this information.

[Renny]
If you buy one of my pots I send you a cake of good quality "green"
Menghai Puer that is suitable for investment. That means that if
properly stored it will be worth 200-400 dollars (at current American
market prices) in 2-4 years. If you can keep from drinking it that
long. It will be pretty good tea in a year or two.

[Seb]
By meng Hai pu erh do you mean a pu erh from one of the meng hai area
factories or a "meng hai tea factory pu erh"? There is absolutely no
way that a green pu erh, 5 years old would be between 200 and 400 usd.
Even a Meng Hai tea Factory pu erh.


[Renny]
By the way. Factory teapots are all industrial grade clay (thats
right, there is more than one grade of yixing clay and many varieties
of both grades)

[Seb]
This is interesting to me because our friend from Yixing who is a
accredited master potter said he would find a hard time to explain us
the different grade of clay. If you know how to set the grade per types
of clay, could you let us know about them? I think everybody will like
to read about that here. The only thing that i understood about clay
grading so far, is that, you do need to bite it LOL



  #21 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 21-06-2005, 08:43 AM
SEb
 
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Default

Jim,

I looked at the page you mentioned without using that translating
things as I do not need them.
The thing i would like to say is : on the same page there is one guang
yun gong bing from the "80's" selling for 880 rmb ($106) , this isn't
the price for a bundle like you mentionned but for 1 beeng cha and then
down on the page another guang yun gong bing from the "70's" that sells
for $20. Desn' t that raised any questions to your mind?

[Jim]
I'll stick with fair market value and you buy from the collectors.

[Jing]
This example isn't what the fair market value is. There is no such
thing as a guang yun from the 70's at $20, not in China.

For the one from the 80's, the price of 880 rmb is more accurate even
though it is too expensive for this particular item as the seller do
not mention if it is 1981 or 1989.

Real pu erh collectors are certainly the most accurate sources for aged
pu erh.

Jing

  #22 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 21-06-2005, 09:38 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Zhuhai, GuangDong Province, PRC
Posts: 12
Default

My apologies... this went a little over the limit so its done it two posts.

Hello folks,
I had no idea my post would generate this much response so I will try to answer it all here. First of all there is one glaring error (my fault) I will address up front. I enjoyed Sashas' comment espeacially. The word that goes in there is "recieve". Also, my wife, XiaoLing, wants to know how you know that Sasha? I say that because the basic chemical elements undergo specific changes and behave in specific ways with the proper heating, reheating, etcetera. For instance, 90% of caffiene is effectively washed out in the first 30 seconds of brewing. That means that a particularly strong fermented and unfermented blend of loose leaf puer I found recently is effectively decaffinated because it needs 3 washings before you pao your first pot for drinking. The good part is that we get up to 20 pao out of it before we call it quits. There are many other such changes that affect when and how many benefits are most potent to virtually non-existant. Its too much to go into here, but let me just say that the repeated heating and proper handling of your brew (GonFuCha) is the best way to obtain maximum benefit. This has evolved over a very long period of time and the Chinese have got it down to an art and a science.

There also appears to some concern about my veracity regarding prices. This is a tough one to answer. The problem is that you are all right, but there are other consideration in each case. This is what I was talking about concerning misinformation. Many people have a great deal of very good information about tea and teapots and generally good paradigms but are missing some critical perspectives (and often have limited info in certain areas). This creates blind spots that are difficult to overcome and cause controversy among people who are generally right in there reasons for an opinion. I think the best way to answer this is to explain a little of what I do here and how it works. The problem here, I think, is not about people having bad info, but about perspectives created by incomplete views. A situation that is sadly almost unavoidable for most tea drinkers (particluarly novices) in the states.

Though tea is not my only business, tea and teaware is a major elemet in both my business and daily life. I live in Zhuhai just south of Macao. I am married to a beautiful Cantonese lady who helps me with business and have been embraced by her family, friends, and the business community. I think that in the process of explaining how my "typical" day goes you might better understand why my views are as they are.

Typically, when not working, I drink between 20 and 50 cups of tea a day depending on how much I socialise. This number often exceeds 100 when i'm working and buying tea. This is not considered excessive here. My personal favorites are puer, followed by oolong, and then good hard rolled ginseng. I buy and know good greens, reds, whites. The rest I simply don't deal with because of time and other restraints regarding my business.

I own pots for each of these but don't typically carry them with me when buying. The reason for this is the way buying is done in China and serious sellers know me and give me samples to try at home. If the seller can't pao the tea in a teapot set aside for what he is selling I simply won't buy. The comment about collectors and buyers in China not being willing to buy sight unseen (and tasted) is absolutely true. The comment about Chinese being in universal agreement about puer investment is also absolutely true and spreading globally. Good aged puer is getting harder to find all the time. Rip offs are getting more common every day as the "sell before market" bosses fight for the market. This is why serious buyers of quality puer don't buy from taobao or ebay. Its just guessing.

I am originally a midwest farmboy. I did business overseas for 20 years before settling in China. One aspect of my business is negotiating joint ventures between Chinese and American firms so I still have with and a good grasp of American business and trends. I pay for statistical services and other things that help me keep abreast of many things in both China and the states. These things are helpful but they do not replace something that is vital regarding the tea and teaware industry. That is the personal on the site relationship with the industry. Let me tell you a true story. You have in most likelihood never read something like this before. I don't know of its existance at any rate. I will tell you about an actual buying/selling session with a Chinese tea boss. I think that will be more informative than reciting statistics and prices.

My wife and I simply walk into the front shop and are greeted. He knows us. I am the only zhong guo guilo (Chinese Guilo) in Zhuhai in the tea business. There are a couple more in GuangDong province and maybe a dozen more spread across China. He knows that Zi Yau Ren You Xian Gung Si (Freeman Ltd.) is a family business that has many family (some related to him) in the business. I have face with this man and it would cost him face to treat me poorly. He invites me to sit at his tea table and starts looking over his pots.

While he looks over his pots we engage in small talk. Like the weather. This will be important later and I would lose face if I didn't pay attention. All of his pots are perfect or near perfect and he knows that I know it. I look over and smell any "new" pots. An bad pot can be used to cheat you. He gains face.

He pulls over a bag of loose leaf puer blend. Its a blend of fermented and unfermented. I know this but say nothing. I gain face and give him face. He sets a pot out front. I smell it and look it over. Then I reach into the bag and mix the top layer before taking a handfull to smell. He asks me if I want to try it. This is my opportunity to let him give me the sales pitch I know he has been setting me up for so I say simply ask what it is.

He has already told me the weather in Yunannan was rainy a while back and caused the plum trees to blossom late. This is important because the leaves for this blend were picked before the blossoms. Plums are common in China and particularly Yunnan where you often get a slight "plum" taste in the puer. This puer is being presented as having little or none of that problem. On the other hand they had some "lemon" puer on hand among the local bosses. By itself not really good puer. They decided to make a blend. This is it. Both of these puer were exceptionally strong and the lemon needs to be well washed. What I have here is a potentially good blend that needs 3 washings but should yield many good pao. It probably doesn't sit well with a Chinese taste in puer. They are trying to see if Americans would like it. I ask him how many pao will it make. He says up to 20 counting the washings.

We pao around six times not counting the washings and discuss its problems and assets. The Chinese don't have a taste for sweets like westerners so their idea of a good plum is almost sour to Americans. The plum taste in this puer is slight enough to be non existant in this blend, but the "lemon" is strong enough (though very mild) to be confused with bitterness past 10 pao or so if you don't understand "bitterness" from the Chinese view.

I tell him that it is very good puer (because it is) but it will only do about 15 pao for most people and someone who doesn't pao well will only get 10 (counting washings) before this quasi "bitterness" takes hold of their tongue. He smiles and gives me 100g to take home and contemplate until we meet again. But we aren't done yet.

See my next post for the rest.
  #23 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 21-06-2005, 09:41 AM
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Location: Zhuhai, GuangDong Province, PRC
Posts: 12
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Part 2... sorry its so long.... very rainy day here with extra time on my hands.


I tell him that it is very good puer (because it is) but it will only do about 15 pao for most people and someone who doesn't pao well will only get 10 (counting washings) before this quasi "bitterness" takes hold of their tongue. He smiles and gives me 100g to take home and contemplate until we meet again. But we aren't done yet.

He brings me 3 cakes and two boxes of bricks to look at (this fellow is exclusively puer). He asks me if i've heard about the fake puer from India that has been circulating lately. I let him know I have and look at one box that matches the description of the fakes. I gain face. He smiles. This is not the fake and he invites me to look it over.

I set a couple of the bricks up by the cakes and get out my puer pick. Two cakes have already been cut (a puer pick is used). I can see that the cut ones are good deep inside. I use my pic to cut the third and a brick. I would be considered stupid not to cut it and we would both lose face. Its a good cake (at least its not old puer pressed over new puer). The cakes are one to five years old he says, and the bricks are green. I ask him about prices.

We discuss the factories, farms, the GuangZhou sell before market bosses, and the weather again. During this I let him know my main interest today is green bricks. He is very proud of a five year old small leaf crab he has on the table and asks me to try it first. I know he doesn't really want to sell this right now and is "showing off" so I say sure. Its part of his investment stash and we both know it. We pao about 10 times and he is right. It is very good. The price is high, as I thought it would be, and would be considered too pricy at the price I would have to charge to do well with it. I tell him I wish I could afford it today but I have only brought enough to buy bricks (cash is king here). So we do about 7 or 8 pao of the brick. I ask about only the price of the bricks now.

These bricks still taste green, of course, but have everything else it takes to be a great puer in a year or two. I buy and drink a lot of puer. The price on these is depressed because of the fakes and time of year. We settle on a price of 70RMB (5 bricks = 1360g/box @ around $8.50 US). I tell him how many boxes I want and while he gets my order ready we chat and invite each other to the next get together (could be at anyones house or shop) to show off our new teas, pots, and fill the air with whatever business or family news is hot while our wives cook some (really) good food.

During this process there is ample opportunity to feel, smell, crumble, bend, spindle, fold, and mutilate tea until you are satisfied. Wet or dry. This process is repeated 5-10 times in a day with the only change being the tea you are buying and its requirements and proper examination. We take a break for high tea to relax with ourselves or friends. Eventually we make our way home to relax, entertain, or work (it never ends). This is not every day but regardless of what kind of business or pleasure is going on you can be assured tea is involved.

I hope this little story helps you to understand why I view and buy tea differently and that I have good reasons. I think it is impossible to get this kind of buying/selling experience outside of China. The capacity to have confidence in your purchase, its quality, its value, and keep a finger on the pulse of the tea market is unmatched. Much of that fake Indian puer is already in the states for instance. I now have more green bricks for my clients of high quality ($5 US and shipping... the five bucks is a handling charge and you don't pay that with a purchase). I think the only way I could be more honest and straightforward about this is if I were a better writer.

By the way, if you have ever seen a description of an actual tea sale anywhere let me know. I don't think there are many people in America or China in the tea business who want you to know.

Best regards.... Dan
  #24 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 21-06-2005, 11:21 AM
Mike Petro
 
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On 20 Jun 2005 16:25:16 -0700, "Space Cowboy"
wrote:

Here is a search string for Guang Yun Gong on TaoBao:

http://216.239.39.104/translate_c?hl...nd-0-all-0.htm


Jim that is no more reliable than doing a search on Ebay, you have to
take the results with a grain of salt, it is NOT a true representation
of the actual market. Once again, NO serious collector would buy an
aged cake site unseen, these guys are catering to the uninitiated! I
would not buy antique puerh from this site any more than I would buy
Swarovski crystal from Ebay.

As of this post you will see 70's Guang Yun Gong for $20. You will see
a tong like bundle from 1980 for $110. What was your 60's price again,
something like $800. You pay alot for those blemishes. I'll stick
with fair market value and you buy from the collectors. If every
potential serious buyer wants a sample then eventually there is nothing
to sell. I think the wine analogy is essentially false because it is
ultimately consumed. The bottle and cork might be worth something.
One on my collection genres extends to the 1900s. Thank goodness you
can't eat or drink it. I can tell you haven't done any serious
collecting except paying too much for your tea. You're on the outside
looking in. High prices are simply for the gullible. No serious
collector will tell you what he paid for anything. You'll never get
your money back if you buy at auction. For insurance purposes I'm much
further ahead if my house burns down.


Once again you resort to unsubstantiated jabs, innuendo, and insults
rather than debating actual conditions. The only reason I even bother
responding to you anymore is because you are spreading misinformation.

I rest my case on the facts and my reputation.

Ciao

Mike Petro
http://www.pu-erh.net
"In this work, when it shall be found that much is omitted, let it not be forgotten that much likewise is performed."
Samuel Johnson, 1775, upon finishing his dictionary.
  #25 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 21-06-2005, 02:21 PM
Mike Petro
 
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Dan, I have to admit this was quite good. It was well written and very
accurately concurs with several private conversations I have had with
other friends and acquaintances I have in the tea business, all of whom
conduct business in China. The subject of puerh is quite controversial,
even amongst the Chinese. I have spent years researching it in depth
and I have often heard conflicting information directly from Chinese
sources, and Chinese books/texts. It is so confusing that I have
learned to look for corroboration before believing anything. Your
description was quite excellent, please post more like this!

Mike
http://www.pu-erh.net



  #26 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 21-06-2005, 02:38 PM
Alex Chaihorsky
 
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Mike -

Which post are you referring to? I noticed that in this thread I cannot see
neither Dan nor Renny.

Sasha.


"Mike Petro" wrote in message
ups.com...
Dan, I have to admit this was quite good. It was well written and very
accurately concurs with several private conversations I have had with
other friends and acquaintances I have in the tea business, all of whom
conduct business in China. The subject of puerh is quite controversial,
even amongst the Chinese. I have spent years researching it in depth
and I have often heard conflicting information directly from Chinese
sources, and Chinese books/texts. It is so confusing that I have
learned to look for corroboration before believing anything. Your
description was quite excellent, please post more like this!

Mike
http://www.pu-erh.net



  #27 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 21-06-2005, 02:53 PM
Mike Petro
 
Posts: n/a
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Hi Alex,

His 2 posts were way too long to quote so I left them out.

I will forward the post to you vis email.

Mike







Alex Chaihorsky wrote:
Mike -

Which post are you referring to? I noticed that in this thread I cannot see
neither Dan nor Renny.

Sasha.


"Mike Petro" wrote in message
ups.com...
Dan, I have to admit this was quite good. It was well written and very
accurately concurs with several private conversations I have had with
other friends and acquaintances I have in the tea business, all of whom
conduct business in China. The subject of puerh is quite controversial,
even amongst the Chinese. I have spent years researching it in depth
and I have often heard conflicting information directly from Chinese
sources, and Chinese books/texts. It is so confusing that I have
learned to look for corroboration before believing anything. Your
description was quite excellent, please post more like this!

Mike
http://www.pu-erh.net


  #28 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 21-06-2005, 03:09 PM
Alex Chaihorsky
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Thanks a zil.

Sasha.

"Mike Petro" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi Alex,

His 2 posts were way too long to quote so I left them out.

I will forward the post to you vis email.

Mike







Alex Chaihorsky wrote:
Mike -

Which post are you referring to? I noticed that in this thread I cannot
see
neither Dan nor Renny.

Sasha.


"Mike Petro" wrote in message
ups.com...
Dan, I have to admit this was quite good. It was well written and very
accurately concurs with several private conversations I have had with
other friends and acquaintances I have in the tea business, all of whom
conduct business in China. The subject of puerh is quite controversial,
even amongst the Chinese. I have spent years researching it in depth
and I have often heard conflicting information directly from Chinese
sources, and Chinese books/texts. It is so confusing that I have
learned to look for corroboration before believing anything. Your
description was quite excellent, please post more like this!

Mike
http://www.pu-erh.net




  #29 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 21-06-2005, 03:37 PM
Space Cowboy
 
Posts: n/a
Default

You're the one spreading misinformation about aged pu pricing. You
won't see anything on TaoBao in the 90's or over $50 and the 80's for
over a $100. I'll let you know when something from the 60's shows up.
All you are describing is a hot market for speculators and not
collectors. Tea bricks of all types in Chinese homes is an heirloom
and not for sale or consumption. TaoBao has it share of presentation
wedding boxes.

Jim

Mike Petro wrote:
....I delete me and you...
Once again you resort to unsubstantiated jabs, innuendo, and insults
rather than debating actual conditions. The only reason I even bother
responding to you anymore is because you are spreading misinformation.

I rest my case on the facts and my reputation.

Ciao

Mike Petro


  #30 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 21-06-2005, 04:08 PM
Space Cowboy
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I'll agree there is a price discrepancy in the two posts. However the
80's post didn't mention a gram weight but did show a bundle of some
sort or individual bamboo wrapping for one beeng which I haven't seen
before maybe indicative of old style. If the 80's was a bundle then
pricing is reduced. Only the title mentioned "80's" but the
description "Year: 80 ages" so it remains if inclusive or not. The
"Pu'er tea merchant" is one of the biggest dealers on TaoBao. I'd buy
from him if I knew how. It could be the 70's was legitimate and priced
seemingly low for whatever reason. You find alot of 'distress' sales
online. I need the 'translating things' but the pricing and selection
comes across loud and clear.

Jim

SEb wrote:
Jim,

I looked at the page you mentioned without using that translating
things as I do not need them.
The thing i would like to say is : on the same page there is one guang
yun gong bing from the "80's" selling for 880 rmb ($106) , this isn't
the price for a bundle like you mentionned but for 1 beeng cha and then
down on the page another guang yun gong bing from the "70's" that sells
for $20. Desn' t that raised any questions to your mind?

[Jim]
I'll stick with fair market value and you buy from the collectors.

[Jing]
This example isn't what the fair market value is. There is no such
thing as a guang yun from the 70's at $20, not in China.

For the one from the 80's, the price of 880 rmb is more accurate even
though it is too expensive for this particular item as the seller do
not mention if it is 1981 or 1989.

Real pu erh collectors are certainly the most accurate sources for aged
pu erh.

Jing




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