Tea (rec.drink.tea) Discussion relating to tea, the world's second most consumed beverage (after water), made by infusing or boiling the leaves of the tea plant (C. sinensis or close relatives) in water.

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  #31 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 21-06-2005, 05:11 PM
Mike Petro
 
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Jim, 3 different people who live in or travel to China extensively have
now concurred that TaBao is NOT representative of the actual market in
China. You are basing your assumptions on false and/or misleading data.


I guess EVERYBODY else is just wrong and you are the only one who knows
the truth, just like a year ago when you chastised me for buying from
online Chinese vendors because you were certain that Chinatown
Apothecaries were the ONLY place to buy authentic puerh. Where are you
buying your puerh now, the very same places I do because even your
Chinatown sources eventually told you to? It seems like you just want
to disagree with anything I say, if I said the sun was shining you
would argue the point. Why don't you go back to talking about stale
Department Store Tea where you are at least experienced enough to speak
with first hand knowledge.

Mike


Space Cowboy wrote:
You're the one spreading misinformation about aged pu pricing. You
won't see anything on TaoBao in the 90's or over $50 and the 80's for
over a $100. I'll let you know when something from the 60's shows up.
All you are describing is a hot market for speculators and not
collectors. Tea bricks of all types in Chinese homes is an heirloom
and not for sale or consumption. TaoBao has it share of presentation
wedding boxes.

Jim



  #32 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 21-06-2005, 07:20 PM
Space Cowboy
 
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You like paying retail markup be my guest. From what I understand the
Chinese merchants love to see the (what's that word again for the
stupid Occidental) coming with his credit card. Believe me I wouldn't
buy anything from anybody who endorses your infomercial site. You need
to shop more in Chinatown or TaoBao and learn how to save some money.
Some new Puer sellers from China have popped up on Ebay. Damn that
shipping. One seller thought he would stockpile in Arizona and ship
from there. He found out he couldn't so now my forgotten 5/3 order is
being shipped from China which will be another month. So I don't have
to retract any statements about websites I declare Ebay a fleamarket.
If you can't find puer in Chinatown retail it's at the herbalist
shoppe. Be sure to take the characters representation because
phonetics won't work.

Jim

Mike Petro wrote:
Jim, 3 different people who live in or travel to China extensively have
now concurred that TaBao is NOT representative of the actual market in
China. You are basing your assumptions on false and/or misleading data.


I guess EVERYBODY else is just wrong and you are the only one who knows
the truth, just like a year ago when you chastised me for buying from
online Chinese vendors because you were certain that Chinatown
Apothecaries were the ONLY place to buy authentic puerh. Where are you
buying your puerh now, the very same places I do because even your
Chinatown sources eventually told you to? It seems like you just want
to disagree with anything I say, if I said the sun was shining you
would argue the point. Why don't you go back to talking about stale
Department Store Tea where you are at least experienced enough to speak
with first hand knowledge.

Mike


Space Cowboy wrote:
You're the one spreading misinformation about aged pu pricing. You
won't see anything on TaoBao in the 90's or over $50 and the 80's for
over a $100. I'll let you know when something from the 60's shows up.
All you are describing is a hot market for speculators and not
collectors. Tea bricks of all types in Chinese homes is an heirloom
and not for sale or consumption. TaoBao has it share of presentation
wedding boxes.

Jim


  #33 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 21-06-2005, 07:33 PM
Mike Petro
 
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Yawn.........

  #34 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 22-06-2005, 06:34 AM
Member
 
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Location: Zhuhai, GuangDong Province, PRC
Posts: 12
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Hey Mike,
The only real way to get any good tea (in the mail that is) is to have someone you trust send it to you from China. If the guy you trust cheats you I suppose you should learn the intracacies of caveat emptor.

There will always be enough tea in China to taste before you buy and they wouldn't have it any other way.

Did he really say the only way to get good puer in the states was to go to China town or did I misunderstand?

BTW, they don't say stupid occidental. Its chun guilo or guipo (stupid non-asian man or woman).

kinda tickled
Renny


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Petro
Yawn.........
  #35 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 22-06-2005, 11:52 AM
Mike Petro
 
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Hi Renny,



On Wed, 22 Jun 2005 05:34:57 +0000, Renny
wrote:


Hey Mike,
The only real way to get any good tea (in the mail that is) is to have
someone you trust send it to you from China. If the guy you trust
cheats you I suppose you should learn the intracacies of caveat
emptor.


Yes, I have been buying puerh directly from China for years now, and
you are right that it is largely a matter of trust. It is not only
enough to trust your vendor's ethics but you also must trust your
vendors knowledge level. This is particularly true for Westerners
trying to buy aged puerh. Many of the vendors in the US don't know
enough not to get ripped off themselves and they then innocently pass
off these poor purchases onto their customers. As you know the vendors
at the markets in Kunming or Guangzhou think nothing of ripping off
Chinese customers so you can only imagine what they would do to an
unsuspecting laowai. I have developed good relationships with honest
vendors at both of these tea markets but even so I seldom buy aged
tea.


Did he really say the only way to get good puer in the states was to go
to China town or did I misunderstand?


Yes, a year ago when I was condoning buying puerh from ebay and other
Internet vendors he did chastise me heavily for not traveling 6 hours
to the nearest Chinatown. Now he is buying from the same people I
recommended back then.

Don't pay much attention to the exchanges between Space Cadet (Cowboy)
and myself. He has attacked me with a vengeance ever since I opened A
website a year and a half ago that teaches people about puerh. My site
is non-commercial and I don't sell anything at all, not even
advertising, however I do provide links to every online resource I can
find. He is determined to insult it and me anyway he can. Just search
out the "Poo Poo Puerh" thread dated Feb 14th 2004 and you will see
what I mean. Its all a matter of public record.

Mike Petro
http://www.pu-erh.net
"In this work, when it shall be found that much is omitted, let it not be forgotten that much likewise is performed."
Samuel Johnson, 1775, upon finishing his dictionary.


  #36 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 22-06-2005, 12:30 PM
Michael Plant
 
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Eric [email protected]/20/05

On 20 Jun 2005 12:11:07 -0400
Lewis Perin wrote:

Renny writes:

[...]

Most people don't even realize that GongFuCha is the only way to
actually


(Insert your favorite verb here, I suppose)

all the health benefits of tea they so highly value (most brewing
destroys these things or never makes them available even when you
start with a good tea).


I'm having trouble thinking of a way to complete this sentence to make
it true. Any suggestions?



I think the only failsafe method of getting all the health benefits from
your pu-erh or any other tea is to pulverize it into a fine powder and
snort it up your nose.


You could also form it into a fine crystal under fire. Science ever
advances.

  #37 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 22-06-2005, 12:35 PM
Michael Plant
 
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Mike 6/20/05


Jim, I have to disagree with your generalization as well. By your logic
a 1960s cake would sell for $50 or less. That is simply not accurate. I
have seen 1960s Guang Yun Gong cakes sell for $800 and I have seen
1960s Red Label sell for $3,000 both of which were at legitimate
auctions in China frequented by professional collectors, and these are
NOT the extremes by any account. If someone offers you a 1960s cake for
$50 you better look elsewhere!


On the other hand, Mike, if somebody offers Jim a 1960's cake for $50, it is
either a ruined 1960's cake -- which is quite possible, albeit improbable --
or something else entirely. If that something else entirely tastes damned
good and causes Jim to wonder for a moment whether it is indeed a 1960's
cake, then it's worth the 50 bucks, and all the more power to Jim and the
thief. (Does that make *any* sense at all?)

In my limited experience the market value of puerh is based on several
factors:

1) The factories reputation
2) The production recipe used
3) How well the cake was stored
4) The quality of production that year
5) The quantity of the crop in the given year
6) The reputation for that particular vintage/recipe.
7) Other factors such as limited edition batches etc
8) What the market will bear......


It would be fascinating to perform a *weighted* average calculation
on your list. I'd place 50% of the weight on eight.


I would say that a high quality cake, that has proven to mature well,
from a well known factory, in an average production year, will increase
anywhere from 10% - 25% *per year* in the current market. Much of this
value is due to the surging popularity of puerh in Hong Kong and Taiwan
over the last 20 years, as well as the fact that well aged pu-erh has
become a status symbol for the rapidly emerging Chinese middle Class.


Get yours NOW.

Michael

  #38 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 22-06-2005, 12:37 PM
Michael Plant
 
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Alex .com6/20/05


"Lewis Perin" wrote in message
news
Renny writes:

[...]

Most people don't even realize that GongFuCha is the only way to
actually


I'm having trouble thinking of a way to complete this sentence to make
it true. Any suggestions?

/Lew


My suggestion :
"Most people don't even realize that GongFuCha is the only way to actually"
reliably seduce women for less than $5.00 with unparalleled success
statistics.


Well, Sasha, now that you let the cat out of the bag -- so to speak -- I'll
just pack up my marbles and go home.

Michael

  #39 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 22-06-2005, 03:39 PM
Space Cowboy
 
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When a guy pops in the group selling stuff and says trust me, yeah
right. Commercial advertising in this group is prohibited. If you
can't find pu'rh in Chinatown it ain't no Chinatown. It'll go for
about penny/gram. I'll leave it up to your taste buds if cheap is
good. Or you can pay $10 for the Xiaguan Millennium 100g tuocha from
the website in Houston which has been previously recommended by the
Barnum of Puer which cost less than a buck in my Chinatown. If you
have any scarce pu'rh me or others will be willing to sample it for
you. It won't remain scarce too long. The term refers to stupid
foreigners which includes Occidentals and Asians. You've already
picked the wrong side.

Jim

Renny wrote:
Hey Mike,
The only real way to get any good tea (in the mail that is) is to have
someone you trust send it to you from China. If the guy you trust
cheats you I suppose you should learn the intracacies of caveat
emptor.

There will always be enough tea in China to taste before you buy and
they wouldn't have it any other way.

Did he really say the only way to get good puer in the states was to go
to China town or did I misunderstand?

BTW, they don't say stupid occidental. Its chun guilo or guipo (stupid
non-asian man or woman).

kinda tickled
Renny


Mike Petro Wrote:
Yawn.........



--
Renny


  #40 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 22-06-2005, 06:33 PM
Mike Petro
 
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On 22 Jun 2005 07:39:53 -0700, "Space Cadet"
wrote:

When a guy pops in the group selling stuff and says trust me, yeah
right. Commercial advertising in this group is prohibited.


When have I ever offered a single thing for sale on this or any other
newsgroup Jim? Show me the post, you can't because it doesnt exist,
you are twisting the truth yet once again.


If you
can't find pu'rh in Chinatown it ain't no Chinatown. It'll go for
about penny/gram. I'll leave it up to your taste buds if cheap is
good.


You yourself are now buying from Scott Wilson on Ebay,
CyberSilkRoads.com, and Treasuregreen.com amongst others. Why is it OK
for you to buy from these places yet you say it is not OK for me to
tell others about them?

As usual Jim you like to twist the truth to suite your own agenda.


Or you can pay $10 for the Xiaguan Millennium 100g tuocha from
the website in Houston which has been previously recommended by the
Barnum of Puer which cost less than a buck in my Chinatown.


Yes, I do publicly acknowledge the websites that offer authentic puerh
for those who cant find it locally. I seldom comment on pricing
because I never pay US prices myself anyway. Even on my website I only
comment on authenticityof the information and tea, not pricing. The
vast majority of time that I have stirred somebody to a website it was
either at their request or I also recommended seeking out a local
brick and mortar store first if it is available. In any event there is
nothing wrong with sharing online sources, whether you like it or not!

Jim, go take your prozac, drink some tea, and leave me alone......


Mike Petro
http://www.pu-erh.net
"In this work, when it shall be found that much is omitted, let it not be forgotten that much likewise is performed."
Samuel Johnson, 1775, upon finishing his dictionary.


  #41 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 22-06-2005, 06:58 PM
Space Cowboy
 
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I wasn't replying too you.

Jim

Mike Petro wrote:
On 22 Jun 2005 07:39:53 -0700, "Space Cadet"
wrote:

When a guy pops in the group selling stuff and says trust me, yeah
right. Commercial advertising in this group is prohibited.


When have I ever offered a single thing for sale on this or any other
newsgroup Jim? Show me the post, you can't because it doesnt exist,
you are twisting the truth yet once again.

....

  #42 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 22-06-2005, 07:41 PM
Mike Petro
 
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Rebecca Ore wrote:

He's a crank on the subject of you and you're beginning to jump at
anything he posts. Not seeing what he's saying might be helpful.


You are right on both accounts. My bad.... Sorry. After a while one
becomes tired of being publicy slammed all the time and I have become
somewhat sensitive to his malarky over the years.

Mike

  #43 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 22-06-2005, 10:16 PM
Space Cowboy
 
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Thank God for Google archiving the public record and your public record
speaks for itself. Is that the post where you stole my use of the
Rosetta Stone first claiming it was public domain then changed the
story and said you couldn't have known about my first use of it when
you were an active poster at the time proving you an intellectual thief
and bare face liar. Is that the post about advertising your
infomercial website endorsed by commercial interests directing people
to sites with shopping carts in violation of the group Charter
prohibiting commercial posts proving you a huckster. Is that the post
where you were given meaningful solutions to obtain feedback about your
website without bothering us here proving you a pimp. Is that the post
where you led the charge to rip a website because feedback for that
site was appearing here under the guise of their message board traffic
proving you a hypocrite. For any new would be vendors posting under
the guise of a public service announcement there is a forum on Yahoo
where all the vendors gather and stroke each other. If you want to
support someone pick one that doesn't bother us here. And when push
comes to shove this guy doesn't know pu from his own poo poo.

Jim

Mike Petro wrote:
....bit mites...
Don't pay much attention to the exchanges between Space Cadet (Cowboy)
and myself. He has attacked me with a vengeance ever since I opened A
website a year and a half ago that teaches people about puerh. My site
is non-commercial and I don't sell anything at all, not even
advertising, however I do provide links to every online resource I can
find. He is determined to insult it and me anyway he can. Just search
out the "Poo Poo Puerh" thread dated Feb 14th 2004 and you will see
what I mean. Its all a matter of public record.


  #44 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 22-06-2005, 11:09 PM
Mike Petro
 
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Space Cadet wrote:
Thank God for Google archiving the public record and your public record
speaks for itself.


Yes , my record DOES speak for itself Jim, and my only shame is
repeatedly falling prey to Trolls.

psychotic logic sniped

Once again I am getting negative feedback for even responding to your
posts. I suggest we both just ignore each other since this gets us
nowhere. I, for one, will do my best to hold up my part.

Mike

  #45 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 23-06-2005, 12:46 AM
Space Cowboy
 
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Is that the post when you run out of excuses you accuse me of being a
troll proving you are a coward. Now you're hiding behind negative
feedback which is a new tact. Before I would get the KILLFILE or
PLONK. Is that the post where I can't run you off proving you a SOB.
Is that the post where I bring out the worst in you proving you're a
sociopath. Is that the post where I'm spreading misinformation proving
you disingenuous. The adjectives keep piling up. Is that the post
where somebody jumps in the middle of this and says ENOUGH till the
next time. You can't hold up your pants.

Jim

Mike Petro wrote:
Space Cadet wrote:
Thank God for Google archiving the public record and your public record
speaks for itself.


Yes , my record DOES speak for itself Jim, and my only shame is
repeatedly falling prey to Trolls.

psychotic logic sniped

Once again I am getting negative feedback for even responding to your
posts. I suggest we both just ignore each other since this gets us
nowhere. I, for one, will do my best to hold up my part.

Mike




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