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Old 28-07-2013, 06:29 PM posted to alt.food.diabetic
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Bj?rn Steensrud wrote:
: W. Baker wrote:

: [massive snippage]

: Do the Lapps still move with the reindeer herds
: in Northern Scandinavia? all ancient practices.
:
: Wendy

: They do. In the northernmost part of Norway, they walk from the inland plain
: to the coast, freighted by boats/small ships to the islands to graze all
: summer. When summer is ending they SWIM back to the mainland, with boats
: standing by to help stragglers. They are in much better shape than in the
: spring :-)

: There's also reindeer herding in the southern mountains, less movement but
: they have to be watched all the time so they don't join the herds of wild
: reindeer.

thansk you. It is nice to know it is still done, but it is a hard life.
I assume that reindeer never were able to be fully domesticated, so the
herders dpated to what could be done.

Wendy

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Old 28-07-2013, 06:31 PM posted to alt.food.diabetic
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Bj?rn Steensrud wrote:
: Bj?rn Steensrud wrote:

: W. Baker wrote:
:
: [massive snippage]
:
: Do the Lapps still move with the reindeer herds
: in Northern Scandinavia? all ancient practices.
:
: Wendy
:
: They do. In the northernmost part of Norway, they walk from the inland
: plain to the coast, freighted by boats/small ships to the islands to graze
: all summer. When summer is ending they SWIM back to the mainland, with
: boats standing by to help stragglers. They are in much better shape than
: in the spring :-)

: I should add that the deer walk and swim, not the Sami :-)


: There's also reindeer herding in the southern mountains, less movement but
: they have to be watched all the time so they don't join the herds of wild
: reindeer.

I figured that, as swimming would make it difficult to keep the reindeer
in line:-) Also I figued the boats coudl be used by the herders as well.

Wendy
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Old 28-07-2013, 07:17 PM posted to alt.food.diabetic
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In article ,
Trawley Trash wrote:

On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 23:09:58 -0700
Billy wrote:

First, it was the consumption of virgin top soil. More recently, the
protein that envelops us comes from the Fritz Haber Process
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process
and is responsible for the last 4 billion people to join the human
race.


OK. The Haber process produces ammonia that can then be used
as fertilizer. Other than the need to balance this with other
nutrients, I don't see a problem here.

The earth is supporting 7 billion at the moment, and I don't
see any reason why it can't support 20 billion.


I think it's a vision problem.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecological_footprint

The ecological footprint is a measure of human demand on the Earth's
ecosystems. It is a standardized measure of demand for natural capital
that may be contrasted with the planet's ecological capacity to
regenerate. For 2007, humanity's total ecological footprint was
estimated at 1.5 planet Earths; that is, humanity uses ecological
services 1.5 times as quickly as Earth can renew them.
-

The nitrogen from the Haber Process ends up as NH3 --- consumed by
plants & bugs --- amino acids -- protein -- enzymes (including
photosynthesis) --- plants which we eat, or fed to animals that we eat
---- human protein.

Top soil, stripped of its organic components requires increasing amounts
of NH3 to maintain yields. The stripped top soil doesn't have tilth, and
blows away, and washes away,
http://www.ext.colostate.edu/mg/gardennotes/212.html
GMOs have not increased yields, or nutrition.

The worlds population wold be much smaller without the Haber process.

With the Haber Process we are consuming 40-75% of energy intake as
carbohydrates, as opposed to 22 to 40%, back in the Paleolithic days.
Celiac disease, and lactose intolerance show that Homo sapiens are still
adapting to our new diet.
--
Palestinian Child Detained
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzSzH38jYcg

Remember Rachel Corrie
http://www.rachelcorrie.org/

Welcome to the New America.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA736oK9FPg
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Old 29-07-2013, 01:00 AM posted to alt.food.diabetic
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On 07/27/2013 02:04 PM, W. Baker wrote:
Ever eat wild huckleberries in the woods of Maine? Jus wonderful!

Wendy


No. I wonder if I could grow or buy them?
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Old 29-07-2013, 01:34 AM posted to alt.food.diabetic
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On 07/28/2013 10:07 AM, Bjørn Steensrud wrote:
Bjørn Steensrud wrote:

W. Baker wrote:

[massive snippage]

Do the Lapps still move with the reindeer herds
in Northern Scandinavia? all ancient practices.

Wendy


They do. In the northernmost part of Norway, they walk from the inland
plain to the coast, freighted by boats/small ships to the islands to graze
all summer. When summer is ending they SWIM back to the mainland, with
boats standing by to help stragglers. They are in much better shape than
in the spring :-)


I should add that the deer walk and swim, not the Sami :-)


There's also reindeer herding in the southern mountains, less movement but
they have to be watched all the time so they don't join the herds of wild
reindeer.



Hi Bjørn,

We call them Caribou here (Alaska). Are they good eating?

-T


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Old 29-07-2013, 05:57 AM posted to alt.food.diabetic
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On 07/27/2013 11:09 PM, Billy wrote:
That is where all those vegetarians are more
healthy studies comes from. Real/strict vegi's are

Why not just call them Vegans?


Hi Billy,

Vegans are a flavor of strict vegetarian. I do believe
they have rules about what you can wear as well as what
up can eat.

I intended to encompass all strict vegetarians, including
those that won't walk on lawns for fear of stepping on
and killing bugs.

-T

Chuckle, chuckle. I wonder if they eat figs?
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Old 29-07-2013, 06:25 AM posted to alt.food.diabetic
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Todd wrote:

On 07/28/2013 10:07 AM, Bjørn Steensrud wrote:
Bjørn Steensrud wrote:

W. Baker wrote:

[massive snippage]

Do the Lapps still move with the reindeer herds
in Northern Scandinavia? all ancient practices.

Wendy

They do. In the northernmost part of Norway, they walk from the inland
plain to the coast, freighted by boats/small ships to the islands to
graze all summer. When summer is ending they SWIM back to the mainland,
with boats standing by to help stragglers. They are in much better shape
than in the spring :-)


I should add that the deer walk and swim, not the Sami :-)


There's also reindeer herding in the southern mountains, less movement
but they have to be watched all the time so they don't join the herds of
wild reindeer.



Hi Bjørn,

We call them Caribou here (Alaska). Are they good eating?

-T


Excellent eating!
In stores I can find packs of frozen "shavings" - small slices - of reindeer
meat. Saute chopped onions, fry the thawed meat in oil, add cream for a
sauce. Crushed juniper berries for a spice, in addition to s&p of course.
(S)he who has an oven could try a roast - just treat it as venison.

Caribou and reindeer are classified as different subspecies of Rangifer
tarandus - google "caribou vs reindeer", nice article.

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Old 29-07-2013, 07:25 AM posted to alt.food.diabetic
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On 07/28/2013 10:25 PM, Bjørn Steensrud wrote:
Caribou and reindeer are classified as different subspecies of Rangifer
tarandus - google "caribou vs reindeer", nice article.


Fascinating. Thank you!


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Old 30-07-2013, 01:29 AM posted to alt.food.diabetic
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On Sun, 28 Jul 2013 11:17:02 -0700
Billy wrote:

In article ,
Trawley Trash wrote:

On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 23:09:58 -0700
Billy wrote:

First, it was the consumption of virgin top soil. More recently,
the protein that envelops us comes from the Fritz Haber Process
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process
and is responsible for the last 4 billion people to join the human
race.


OK. The Haber process produces ammonia that can then be used
as fertilizer. Other than the need to balance this with other
nutrients, I don't see a problem here.

The earth is supporting 7 billion at the moment, and I don't
see any reason why it can't support 20 billion.


I think it's a vision problem.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecological_footprint

The ecological footprint is a measure of human demand on the Earth's
ecosystems. It is a standardized measure of demand for natural
capital that may be contrasted with the planet's ecological capacity
to regenerate. For 2007, humanity's total ecological footprint was
estimated at 1.5 planet Earths; that is, humanity uses ecological
services 1.5 times as quickly as Earth can renew them.


As an engineer I would want to look carefully at the claimed capacity
limit(s) before I would accept this.
I would guess we have been operating at 1.5 planet earths for
several thousand years. This is what provides the pressure
for technological advancement. We just keep getting better
at utilizing and distributing the available resources.
Just because something sounds like science doesn't mean it is
sound.

The nitrogen from the Haber Process ends up as NH3 --- consumed by
plants & bugs --- amino acids -- protein -- enzymes (including
photosynthesis) --- plants which we eat, or fed to animals that we
eat ---- human protein.

Top soil, stripped of its organic components requires increasing
amounts of NH3 to maintain yields. The stripped top soil doesn't have
tilth, and blows away, and washes away,
http://www.ext.colostate.edu/mg/gardennotes/212.html
GMOs have not increased yields, or nutrition.


As a write this forest fires are raging. Our small city
in the desert is choking in smog. In addition to pollution topsoil
topsoil is burning away. The federal government moved in
and turned our state lands into national forests so they could
"manage" them. Now they manage them by letting fires rage.

The worlds population wold be much smaller without the Haber process.

With the Haber Process we are consuming 40-75% of energy intake as
carbohydrates, as opposed to 22 to 40%, back in the Paleolithic days.
Celiac disease, and lactose intolerance show that Homo sapiens are
still adapting to our new diet.


This doesn't make any sense. Nitrogen is not needed to make
carbohydrates. It is only found in protein.


--
I'm Trawley Trash, and you haven't heard the last of me yet.

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Old 31-07-2013, 12:23 AM posted to alt.food.diabetic
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Posts: 168
Default Opinion piece on artificial sweeteners

In article ,
Trawley Trash wrote:

On Sun, 28 Jul 2013 11:17:02 -0700
Billy wrote:

In article ,
Trawley Trash wrote:

On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 23:09:58 -0700
Billy wrote:

First, it was the consumption of virgin top soil. More recently,
the protein that envelops us comes from the Fritz Haber Process
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process
and is responsible for the last 4 billion people to join the human
race.

OK. The Haber process produces ammonia that can then be used
as fertilizer. Other than the need to balance this with other
nutrients, I don't see a problem here.

The earth is supporting 7 billion at the moment, and I don't
see any reason why it can't support 20 billion.


I think it's a vision problem.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecological_footprint

The ecological footprint is a measure of human demand on the Earth's
ecosystems. It is a standardized measure of demand for natural
capital that may be contrasted with the planet's ecological capacity
to regenerate. For 2007, humanity's total ecological footprint was
estimated at 1.5 planet Earths; that is, humanity uses ecological
services 1.5 times as quickly as Earth can renew them.


As an engineer I would want to look carefully at the claimed capacity
limit(s) before I would accept this.
I would guess we have been operating at 1.5 planet earths for
several thousand years.


Your guess vs
http://www.footprintnetwork.org/en/i...print_science_
introduction/ ?

This is what provides the pressure
for technological advancement. We just keep getting better
at utilizing and distributing the available resources.
Just because something sounds like science doesn't mean it is
sound.

Doesn't even sound like it. The ozone was disappearing, there was no
better idea, so we reduced our use of CFCs and the Ozone Hole got
better. Acid rain was killing forests, and damaging crops, there was no
better idea, so we cleaned up smoke stacks and then the acid diminished.
Until you have a better idea, I'd say we stop over utilizing our
environment. Wadda ya think?

The nitrogen from the Haber Process ends up as NH3 --- consumed by
plants & bugs --- amino acids -- protein -- enzymes (including
photosynthesis) --- plants which we eat, or fed to animals that we
eat ---- human protein.

Top soil, stripped of its organic components requires increasing
amounts of NH3 to maintain yields. The stripped top soil doesn't have
tilth, and blows away, and washes away,
http://www.ext.colostate.edu/mg/gardennotes/212.html
GMOs have not increased yields, or nutrition.


As a write this forest fires are raging. Our small city
in the desert is choking in smog. In addition to pollution topsoil
topsoil is burning away.

Not likely yet, but come the rainy season, it could be washed away
without vegetation to hold it.

The federal government moved in
and turned our state lands into national forests so they could
"manage" them. Now they manage them by letting fires rage.

Noe you're starting to sound like a "Tea Bagger" with a conspiracy
theory. Are you saying that the government is encouraging the fire, that
threatens local communities like Big Creek or Huntington Lake, oooor
since the fire is in steep, rugged, inaccessible terrain, they are
burning off dry fuel that has accumulated over the years from fire
suppression? Did the government set the fire, too?



The worlds population wold be much smaller without the Haber process.

With the Haber Process we are consuming 40-75% of energy intake as
carbohydrates, as opposed to 22 to 40%, back in the Paleolithic days.
Celiac disease, and lactose intolerance show that Homo sapiens are
still adapting to our new diet.


This doesn't make any sense. Nitrogen is not needed to make
carbohydrates. It is only found in protein.


What do you engineer?



Ever hear of DNA? Look at diagrams of adenine, guanine, cytosine, and
thymine. Where does all that nitrogen come from?

http://www.biologie.uni-hamburg.de/b-online/e17/17e.htm
Most proteins are enzymes that came into being rather early in
evolution; this means that all cells, bacteria, animal and plant cells,
have the same repertoire of enzymes. Everything summarized by the term
primary metabolism, i.e. glycolysis, citric acid cycle, amino acid
synthesis, carbohydrate synthesis, lipid and nucleotide synthesis is
controlled by a set of enzymes that differ only slightly from one group
of organism to another.

Even the sweet spot in chlorophyll (where the sugars are made) is
surrounded by NH3s, not to mention the enzymes (protein) that construct
starch, and cellulose from those sugars.


When you look at a bag of fertilizer it will give you three numbers,
like 5-1-1. That stands for 5% nitrogen, 1% Phosphorous, 1% Potassium.
Your seed may germinate, but the plant isn't going anywhere without
nitrogen for crucial enzymes.
--
Palestinian Child Detained
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzSzH38jYcg

Remember Rachel Corrie
http://www.rachelcorrie.org/

Welcome to the New America.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA736oK9FPg


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Old 01-08-2013, 06:01 PM posted to alt.food.diabetic
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Default Opinion piece on artificial sweeteners

On Mon, 29 Jul 2013 17:29:04 -0700, Trawley Trash
wrote:

As a write this forest fires are raging. Our small city
in the desert is choking in smog. In addition to pollution topsoil
topsoil is burning away. The federal government moved in
and turned our state lands into national forests so they could
"manage" them. Now they manage them by letting fires rage.



Idiot liar.

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Old 01-08-2013, 06:37 PM posted to alt.food.diabetic
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Posts: 720
Default Opinion piece on artificial sweeteners

On 07/29/2013 05:29 PM, Trawley Trash wrote:
As a write this forest fires are raging. Our small city
in the desert is choking in smog. In addition to pollution topsoil
topsoil is burning away. The federal government moved in
and turned our state lands into national forests so they could
"manage" them. Now they manage them by letting fires rage.


Hi Trawley,

In a properly managed forest, fires should only burn a
few inches on the ground. A raging fire means the forest
was managed very badly.

The fed did the same thing out here in Nevada. Every year
Nevada's range land (BLM, Bureau of Land Management) lights
on fire. This never happened when our ranchers were allowed
to manage the lands. They knew not to let the fuel build up
to the point were we had wild fires every year. And, we
never had them! I can only shake my head at the loss of
fortune and human lives fighting the darned things.

You see out here in Nevada, we have these dedicated public
servants that keep the fuel down. They are called cows and
sheep. And, when they are done doing their public service,
WE GET THE EAT THEM!

Someone needs to tell the fed it is much cheaper to get
paid by someone to graze their animals, then it is spend
money putting out fires. The poor dears think they are
saving food for the local wildlife by restricting grazing.
The local wildlife was always just fine under local
control. I actually heard of a study showing how
much more wildlife there is when ranchers take over the
land. Kit Carson's own journals state he almost starved
to death out here, due to lack of critters to shoot when
he first arrived here (before ranchers).

-T
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Old 01-08-2013, 06:49 PM posted to alt.food.diabetic
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On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 16:23:22 -0700
Billy wrote:

In article ,
Trawley Trash wrote:

On Sun, 28 Jul 2013 11:17:02 -0700
Billy wrote:

In article ,
Trawley Trash wrote:

On Sat, 27 Jul 2013 23:09:58 -0700
Billy wrote:

First, it was the consumption of virgin top soil. More
recently, the protein that envelops us comes from the Fritz
Haber Process http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process
and is responsible for the last 4 billion people to join the
human race.

OK. The Haber process produces ammonia that can then be used
as fertilizer. Other than the need to balance this with other
nutrients, I don't see a problem here.

The earth is supporting 7 billion at the moment, and I don't
see any reason why it can't support 20 billion.

I think it's a vision problem.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecological_footprint

The ecological footprint is a measure of human demand on the
Earth's ecosystems. It is a standardized measure of demand for
natural capital that may be contrasted with the planet's
ecological capacity to regenerate. For 2007, humanity's total
ecological footprint was estimated at 1.5 planet Earths; that is,
humanity uses ecological services 1.5 times as quickly as Earth
can renew them.


As an engineer I would want to look carefully at the claimed
capacity limit(s) before I would accept this.
I would guess we have been operating at 1.5 planet earths for
several thousand years.


Your guess vs
http://www.footprintnetwork.org/en/i...print_science_
introduction/ ?


Sorry. I've seen too many wild predictions like this. Not even
going to read your link. If you believe past projections, we must
surely be dead by now. Yet we always find ways to cope. Human
ingenuity is not predictable by this kind of analysis.

We do need to keep track of the problems so that we can act as
necessary.

This is what provides the pressure
for technological advancement. We just keep getting better
at utilizing and distributing the available resources.
Just because something sounds like science doesn't mean it is
sound.

Doesn't even sound like it. The ozone was disappearing, there was no
better idea, so we reduced our use of CFCs and the Ozone Hole got
better. Acid rain was killing forests, and damaging crops, there was
no better idea, so we cleaned up smoke stacks and then the acid
diminished. Until you have a better idea, I'd say we stop over
utilizing our environment. Wadda ya think?


How about recognizing that forest fires cause massive air pollution.

The nitrogen from the Haber Process ends up as NH3 --- consumed
by plants & bugs --- amino acids -- protein -- enzymes
(including photosynthesis) --- plants which we eat, or fed to
animals that we eat ---- human protein.

Top soil, stripped of its organic components requires increasing
amounts of NH3 to maintain yields. The stripped top soil doesn't
have tilth, and blows away, and washes away,
http://www.ext.colostate.edu/mg/gardennotes/212.html
GMOs have not increased yields, or nutrition.


As a write this forest fires are raging. Our small city
in the desert is choking in smog. In addition to pollution
topsoil topsoil is burning away.

Not likely yet, but come the rainy season, it could be washed away
without vegetation to hold it.


That organic matter that goes up in smoke will decay into topsoil.
So that is future topsoil vanishing. Given the right conditions
and millions of years it might even decay into fossil fuel. And
even the existing topsoil burns when the fire gets hot enough.

The federal government moved in
and turned our state lands into national forests so they could
"manage" them. Now they manage them by letting fires rage.

Noe you're starting to sound like a "Tea Bagger" with a conspiracy
theory. Are you saying that the government is encouraging the fire,
that threatens local communities like Big Creek or Huntington Lake,
oooor since the fire is in steep, rugged, inaccessible terrain, they
are burning off dry fuel that has accumulated over the years from
fire suppression? Did the government set the fire, too?


There is a difference between conspiracy and mismanagement.

The worlds population wold be much smaller without the Haber
process.

With the Haber Process we are consuming 40-75% of energy intake
as carbohydrates, as opposed to 22 to 40%, back in the
Paleolithic days. Celiac disease, and lactose intolerance show
that Homo sapiens are still adapting to our new diet.


This doesn't make any sense. Nitrogen is not needed to make
carbohydrates. It is only found in protein.


What do you engineer?

Ever hear of DNA? Look at diagrams of adenine, guanine, cytosine, and
thymine. Where does all that nitrogen come from?


Clue: adenine, guanine, cytosine, and thymine are not carbohydrates.

http://www.biologie.uni-hamburg.de/b-online/e17/17e.htm
Most proteins are enzymes that came into being rather early in
evolution; this means that all cells, bacteria, animal and plant
cells, have the same repertoire of enzymes. Everything summarized by
the term primary metabolism, i.e. glycolysis, citric acid cycle,
amino acid synthesis, carbohydrate synthesis, lipid and nucleotide
synthesis is controlled by a set of enzymes that differ only slightly
from one group of organism to another.

Even the sweet spot in chlorophyll (where the sugars are made) is
surrounded by NH3s, not to mention the enzymes (protein) that
construct starch, and cellulose from those sugars.


When you look at a bag of fertilizer it will give you three numbers,
like 5-1-1. That stands for 5% nitrogen, 1% Phosphorous, 1% Potassium.
Your seed may germinate, but the plant isn't going anywhere without
nitrogen for crucial enzymes.


It is more complicated than that. Every plant has different
requirements. Some are better off with less nitrogen.


--
I'm Trawley Trash, and you haven't heard the last of me yet.

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Old 01-08-2013, 09:27 PM posted to alt.food.diabetic
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Default Opinion piece on artificial sweeteners

On Thu, 01 Aug 2013 12:01:02 -0500
DonOpple0paad wrote:

On Mon, 29 Jul 2013 17:29:04 -0700, Trawley Trash
wrote:

As a write this forest fires are raging. Our small city
in the desert is choking in smog. In addition to pollution topsoil
topsoil is burning away. The federal government moved in
and turned our state lands into national forests so they could
"manage" them. Now they manage them by letting fires rage.



Idiot liar.


They did the same thing in California. The whole central
valley was choking in smoke when I left. The fires went
on and on. The air pollution triggers allergies that
raise my BG.

Elitist Back Easters simply don't care what happens to
us in the west. They think it should all be vacant
land, and they would rather smoke us out than listen
to our complaints.




--
I'm Trawley Trash, and you haven't heard the last of me yet.

  #75 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 02-08-2013, 07:15 AM posted to alt.food.diabetic
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Posts: 168
Default Opinion piece on artificial sweeteners

In article ,
Trawley Trash wrote:

On Thu, 01 Aug 2013 12:01:02 -0500
DonOpple0paad wrote:

On Mon, 29 Jul 2013 17:29:04 -0700, Trawley Trash
wrote:

As a write this forest fires are raging. Our small city
in the desert is choking in smog. In addition to pollution topsoil
topsoil is burning away. The federal government moved in
and turned our state lands into national forests so they could
"manage" them. Now they manage them by letting fires rage.



Idiot liar.


They did the same thing in California. The whole central
valley was choking in smoke when I left. The fires went
on and on. The air pollution triggers allergies that
raise my BG.

Elitist Back Easters simply don't care what happens to
us in the west. They think it should all be vacant
land, and they would rather smoke us out than listen
to our complaints.


Troll alert.
--
Palestinian Child Detained
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzSzH38jYcg

Remember Rachel Corrie
http://www.rachelcorrie.org/

Welcome to the New America.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hA736oK9FPg


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