How often do you eat them? I have several jars that I bought but I rarely
think to eat them. And while they used to be commonly put on your plate
when you ordered a burger or sandwich in a restaurant, they rarely are here
any more. So once I can stop writing down my food intake for the day, I'm
going to make more of an effort to eat them. But right now eating anything
extra is a PITA because there's no room on my paper to write the food down.

Used to be that pickles were always on the list of daily menu plans for
diabetics. Perhaps because they are fat free and low in calories. But I
rarely see anyone eating them now.

I eat bread n butter cucumbers most days. Hand-sized rye crackers spread
with cottage cheese and topped with tomato, FGBP and the cucumbers.
Addicted to it

"Julie Bove" > wrote in message
...
> How often do you eat them? I have several jars that I bought but I
> rarely think to eat them. And while they used to be commonly put on
> your plate when you ordered a burger or sandwich in a restaurant, they
> rarely are here any more. So once I can stop writing down my food
> intake for the day, I'm going to make more of an effort to eat them.
> But right now eating anything extra is a PITA because there's no room
> on my paper to write the food down.
>
> Used to be that pickles were always on the list of daily menu plans
> for diabetics. Perhaps because they are fat free and low in calories.
> But I rarely see anyone eating them now.
>

Julie Bove > wrote:
: How often do you eat them? I have several jars that I bought but I rarely
: think to eat them. And while they used to be commonly put on your plate
: when you ordered a burger or sandwich in a restaurant, they rarely are here
: any more. So once I can stop writing down my food intake for the day, I'm
: going to make more of an effort to eat them. But right now eating anything
: extra is a PITA because there's no room on my paper to write the food down.

I love my dill pickles. they always serve them here with burgers and many
sandwiches(which I get without the bread). WhenI buy a jar I willhave
them either with dinner or as a snack. I did find some artificially
swetened sweet ghirkins wich I use in a fish salad recipe of my Mother's
that is a lovely dish for lunch guests. Unfortunately, these are hard to
find .

Wendy

On 01/28/2013 03:25 AM, Julie Bove wrote:
> How often do you eat them? I have several jars that I bought but I rarely
> think to eat them. And while they used to be commonly put on your plate
> when you ordered a burger or sandwich in a restaurant, they rarely are here
> any more. So once I can stop writing down my food intake for the day, I'm
> going to make more of an effort to eat them. But right now eating anything
> extra is a PITA because there's no room on my paper to write the food down.
>
> Used to be that pickles were always on the list of daily menu plans for
> diabetics. Perhaps because they are fat free and low in calories. But I
> rarely see anyone eating them now.

Hi Julie,

I use Raley's Full circle Organic Dill pickles in my
lunches. The Vinegar is a bit strong. So they take a
bit to eat. Allows the rest of my lunch to catch up
with me. Love them with a bite of cheese. I try not
to eat them at home so I won't get tired of them.

I also LOVE Trader Joe's Organic Dill sandwich slices
on my Cave Man sandwiches. (Sub lettuce for bread.)
These pickles are sliced long ways, so they are
quick to make up a sandwich.

I think one of the main problem with Cave Man cooking
is the lack of variety. Can't eat the same things over
and over.

-T

On 01/28/2013 06:18 PM, Todd wrote:
> On 01/28/2013 03:25 AM, Julie Bove wrote:
>> How often do you eat them? I have several jars that I bought but I
>> rarely
>> think to eat them. And while they used to be commonly put on your plate
>> when you ordered a burger or sandwich in a restaurant, they rarely are
>> here
>> any more. So once I can stop writing down my food intake for the day,
>> I'm
>> going to make more of an effort to eat them. But right now eating
>> anything
>> extra is a PITA because there's no room on my paper to write the food
>> down.
>>
>> Used to be that pickles were always on the list of daily menu plans for
>> diabetics. Perhaps because they are fat free and low in calories. But I
>> rarely see anyone eating them now.
>
> Hi Julie,
>
> I use Raley's Full circle Organic Dill pickles in my
> lunches. The Vinegar is a bit strong. So they take a
> bit to eat. Allows the rest of my lunch to catch up
> with me. Love them with a bite of cheese. I try not
> to eat them at home so I won't get tired of them.
>
> I also LOVE Trader Joe's Organic Dill sandwich slices
> on my Cave Man sandwiches. (Sub lettuce for bread.)
> These pickles are sliced long ways, so they are
> quick to make up a sandwich.
>
> I think one of the main problem with Cave Man cooking
> is the lack of variety. Can't eat the same things over
> and over.
>
> -T
>


Oh, both the pickles I spoke of use Turmeric for color.
No dyes or excytotoxins. (Turmeric is actually good for
us too.)

"Todd" > wrote in message
...
> On 01/28/2013 03:25 AM, Julie Bove wrote:
>> How often do you eat them? I have several jars that I bought but I
>> rarely
>> think to eat them. And while they used to be commonly put on your plate
>> when you ordered a burger or sandwich in a restaurant, they rarely are
>> here
>> any more. So once I can stop writing down my food intake for the day,
>> I'm
>> going to make more of an effort to eat them. But right now eating
>> anything
>> extra is a PITA because there's no room on my paper to write the food
>> down.
>>
>> Used to be that pickles were always on the list of daily menu plans for
>> diabetics. Perhaps because they are fat free and low in calories. But I
>> rarely see anyone eating them now.
>
> Hi Julie,
>
> I use Raley's Full circle Organic Dill pickles in my
> lunches. The Vinegar is a bit strong. So they take a
> bit to eat. Allows the rest of my lunch to catch up
> with me. Love them with a bite of cheese. I try not
> to eat them at home so I won't get tired of them.
>
> I also LOVE Trader Joe's Organic Dill sandwich slices
> on my Cave Man sandwiches. (Sub lettuce for bread.)
> These pickles are sliced long ways, so they are
> quick to make up a sandwich.
>
> I think one of the main problem with Cave Man cooking
> is the lack of variety. Can't eat the same things over
> and over.
>
> -T

Sorry, I don't know what Cave Man cooking is. But I do tend to eat the same
things over and over.

On 01/29/2013 02:03 AM, Julie Bove wrote:
> Sorry, I don't know what Cave Man cooking is.

Eating before the dawn of agriculture. In other words,
this Type 2 stuff didn't happen to us before humans
discovered beer, and created the agriculture to support it.
We humans were never designed to handle the amount of
carbohydrates that hybridized grains and roots brought us.

I call it "cave man cooking" for short.

Todd wrote:
> On 01/29/2013 02:03 AM, Julie Bove wrote:
>> Sorry, I don't know what Cave Man cooking is.
>
> Eating before the dawn of agriculture. In other words,
> this Type 2 stuff didn't happen to us before humans
> discovered beer, and created the agriculture to support it.
> We humans were never designed to handle the amount of
> carbohydrates that hybridized grains and roots brought us.

I don't know that it didn't. Diabetes certainly dates back long before I
was ever born. They used to diagnose it by tasting the urine. Diabetics
urine tasted sweet. And I don't think they had any way to tell what type we
had prior to somewhat recent testing methods.

As for the other stuff... I don't buy it.
>
> I call it "cave man cooking" for short.

And I call it a diet that I could never eat.

On 01/29/2013 10:31 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
> Todd wrote:
>> On 01/29/2013 02:03 AM, Julie Bove wrote:
>>> Sorry, I don't know what Cave Man cooking is.
>>
>> Eating before the dawn of agriculture. In other words,
>> this Type 2 stuff didn't happen to us before humans
>> discovered beer, and created the agriculture to support it.
>> We humans were never designed to handle the amount of
>> carbohydrates that hybridized grains and roots brought us.
>
> I don't know that it didn't. Diabetes certainly dates back long before I
> was ever born. They used to diagnose it by tasting the urine. Diabetics
> urine tasted sweet. And I don't think they had any way to tell what type we
> had prior to somewhat recent testing methods.
>
> As for the other stuff... I don't buy it.
>>
>> I call it "cave man cooking" for short.
>
> And I call it a diet that I could never eat.

Hi Julie,

You have to, or body parts will start to fall off.
Make it fun! You get to annoy the food nazis! You get
to eat MEAT and BUTTER without guilt!

I am having a blast. Of course, I need to get my
cooking skill down.

The alternative is to be an extra in a zombie movie.

-T

On 01/29/2013 10:31 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
> Diabetics
> urine tasted sweet. And I don't think they had any way to tell what type we
> had prior to somewhat recent testing methods.

Okay. Second worst job in history. Ewwww!

"Todd" > wrote in message
...
> On 01/29/2013 10:31 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>> Todd wrote:
>>> On 01/29/2013 02:03 AM, Julie Bove wrote:
>>>> Sorry, I don't know what Cave Man cooking is.
>>>
>>> Eating before the dawn of agriculture. In other words,
>>> this Type 2 stuff didn't happen to us before humans
>>> discovered beer, and created the agriculture to support it.
>>> We humans were never designed to handle the amount of
>>> carbohydrates that hybridized grains and roots brought us.
>>
>> I don't know that it didn't. Diabetes certainly dates back long before I
>> was ever born. They used to diagnose it by tasting the urine. Diabetics
>> urine tasted sweet. And I don't think they had any way to tell what type
>> we
>> had prior to somewhat recent testing methods.
>>
>> As for the other stuff... I don't buy it.
>>>
>>> I call it "cave man cooking" for short.
>>
>> And I call it a diet that I could never eat.
>
> Hi Julie,
>
> You have to, or body parts will start to fall off.
> Make it fun! You get to annoy the food nazis! You get
> to eat MEAT and BUTTER without guilt!

No. My body parts are not going to fall off. I have multiple food
intolerances and can't eat any dairy, chicken, fish, shellfish, eggs and
some other foods. I have gastroparesis and can't digest most meat, too much
fat and most vegetables.

I do not have guilt with eating.
>
> I am having a blast. Of course, I need to get my
> cooking skill down.

I'm glad you are. But if I ate what you did, they'd have the surgically
remove the bezoar that I would get. That's a food ball. Much like a hair
ball in a cat.
>
> The alternative is to be an extra in a zombie movie.

Well, no. I've had diabetes for about 15 years now. I'm still here.

On 01/30/2013 08:11 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
> "Todd" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On 01/29/2013 10:31 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>>> Todd wrote:
>>>> On 01/29/2013 02:03 AM, Julie Bove wrote:
>>>>> Sorry, I don't know what Cave Man cooking is.
>>>>
>>>> Eating before the dawn of agriculture. In other words,
>>>> this Type 2 stuff didn't happen to us before humans
>>>> discovered beer, and created the agriculture to support it.
>>>> We humans were never designed to handle the amount of
>>>> carbohydrates that hybridized grains and roots brought us.
>>>
>>> I don't know that it didn't. Diabetes certainly dates back long before I
>>> was ever born. They used to diagnose it by tasting the urine. Diabetics
>>> urine tasted sweet. And I don't think they had any way to tell what type
>>> we
>>> had prior to somewhat recent testing methods.
>>>
>>> As for the other stuff... I don't buy it.
>>>>
>>>> I call it "cave man cooking" for short.
>>>
>>> And I call it a diet that I could never eat.
>>
>> Hi Julie,
>>
>> You have to, or body parts will start to fall off.
>> Make it fun! You get to annoy the food nazis! You get
>> to eat MEAT and BUTTER without guilt!
>
> No. My body parts are not going to fall off. I have multiple food
> intolerances and can't eat any dairy, chicken, fish, shellfish, eggs and
> some other foods. I have gastroparesis and can't digest most meat, too much
> fat and most vegetables.
>
> I do not have guilt with eating.
>>
>> I am having a blast. Of course, I need to get my
>> cooking skill down.
>
> I'm glad you are. But if I ate what you did, they'd have the surgically
> remove the bezoar that I would get. That's a food ball. Much like a hair
> ball in a cat.
>>
>> The alternative is to be an extra in a zombie movie.
>
> Well, no. I've had diabetes for about 15 years now. I'm still here.

Gastroparesis. Yikes! What a pain in the neck!

My wife's side of the family has a T2 that is 92 years old.
So, as long as we watch ourselves, we will be fine. I think
of it as a lifestyle, not as a disease. (Though I know of a guy
who refused the restrictions and lost both legs then
his life at age 52 or so. Don't remember the exact number.
He must have really likes sweets and pizza.)

-T

"Todd" > wrote in message
...
> On 01/30/2013 08:11 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>> "Todd" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On 01/29/2013 10:31 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>>>> Todd wrote:
>>>>> On 01/29/2013 02:03 AM, Julie Bove wrote:
>>>>>> Sorry, I don't know what Cave Man cooking is.
>>>>>
>>>>> Eating before the dawn of agriculture. In other words,
>>>>> this Type 2 stuff didn't happen to us before humans
>>>>> discovered beer, and created the agriculture to support it.
>>>>> We humans were never designed to handle the amount of
>>>>> carbohydrates that hybridized grains and roots brought us.
>>>>
>>>> I don't know that it didn't. Diabetes certainly dates back long before
>>>> I
>>>> was ever born. They used to diagnose it by tasting the urine.
>>>> Diabetics
>>>> urine tasted sweet. And I don't think they had any way to tell what
>>>> type
>>>> we
>>>> had prior to somewhat recent testing methods.
>>>>
>>>> As for the other stuff... I don't buy it.
>>>>>
>>>>> I call it "cave man cooking" for short.
>>>>
>>>> And I call it a diet that I could never eat.
>>>
>>> Hi Julie,
>>>
>>> You have to, or body parts will start to fall off.
>>> Make it fun! You get to annoy the food nazis! You get
>>> to eat MEAT and BUTTER without guilt!
>>
>> No. My body parts are not going to fall off. I have multiple food
>> intolerances and can't eat any dairy, chicken, fish, shellfish, eggs and
>> some other foods. I have gastroparesis and can't digest most meat, too
>> much
>> fat and most vegetables.
>>
>> I do not have guilt with eating.
>>>
>>> I am having a blast. Of course, I need to get my
>>> cooking skill down.
>>
>> I'm glad you are. But if I ate what you did, they'd have the surgically
>> remove the bezoar that I would get. That's a food ball. Much like a
>> hair
>> ball in a cat.
>>>
>>> The alternative is to be an extra in a zombie movie.
>>
>> Well, no. I've had diabetes for about 15 years now. I'm still here.
>
> Gastroparesis. Yikes! What a pain in the neck!
>
> My wife's side of the family has a T2 that is 92 years old.
> So, as long as we watch ourselves, we will be fine. I think
> of it as a lifestyle, not as a disease. (Though I know of a guy
> who refused the restrictions and lost both legs then
> his life at age 52 or so. Don't remember the exact number.
> He must have really likes sweets and pizza.)
>
> -T

I know plenty of diabetics who eat pizza and sweets. Not saying that it's
right. Or wrong or whatever. Still doesn't mean that we'll lose a limb.

On 01/31/2013 02:23 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>> My wife's side of the family has a T2 that is 92 years old.
>> >So, as long as we watch ourselves, we will be fine. I think
>> >of it as a lifestyle, not as a disease. (Though I know of a guy
>> >who refused the restrictions and lost both legs then
>> >his life at age 52 or so. Don't remember the exact number.
>> >He must have really likes sweets and pizza.)
>> >
>> >-T

> I know plenty of diabetics who eat pizza and sweets. Not saying that it's
> right. Or wrong or whatever. Still doesn't mean that we'll lose a limb.

I talked to a T2 yesterday. He told me he could not put up
with the restrictions, so he went on insulin. Seems to
be working well for him, if you ignore his two artificial
legs and his heart attack. Very dis-hearting. I suspect the
wild BG swings and the insulin itself (too much is toxic) may
be to account. Yikes! Thank you not, I will keep my feet.
I am rather fond of them.

"Todd" > wrote in message
...
> On 01/31/2013 02:23 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>>> My wife's side of the family has a T2 that is 92 years old.
>>> >So, as long as we watch ourselves, we will be fine. I think
>>> >of it as a lifestyle, not as a disease. (Though I know of a guy
>>> >who refused the restrictions and lost both legs then
>>> >his life at age 52 or so. Don't remember the exact number.
>>> >He must have really likes sweets and pizza.)
>>> >
>>> >-T
>
>> I know plenty of diabetics who eat pizza and sweets. Not saying that
>> it's
>> right. Or wrong or whatever. Still doesn't mean that we'll lose a limb.
>
> I talked to a T2 yesterday. He told me he could not put up
> with the restrictions, so he went on insulin. Seems to
> be working well for him, if you ignore his two artificial
> legs and his heart attack. Very dis-hearting. I suspect the
> wild BG swings and the insulin itself (too much is toxic) may
> be to account. Yikes! Thank you not, I will keep my feet.
> I am rather fond of them.

What do you mean by restrictions? And what does insulin have to do with
anything? Some people need it. Doesn't mean that they've failed at
anything.

Julie Bove > wrote:

: "Todd" > wrote in message
: ...
: > On 01/31/2013 02:23 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
: >>> My wife's side of the family has a T2 that is 92 years old.
: >>> >So, as long as we watch ourselves, we will be fine. I think
: >>> >of it as a lifestyle, not as a disease. (Though I know of a guy
: >>> >who refused the restrictions and lost both legs then
: >>> >his life at age 52 or so. Don't remember the exact number.
: >>> >He must have really likes sweets and pizza.)
: >>> >
: >>> >-T
: >
: >> I know plenty of diabetics who eat pizza and sweets. Not saying that
: >> it's
: >> right. Or wrong or whatever. Still doesn't mean that we'll lose a limb.
: >
: > I talked to a T2 yesterday. He told me he could not put up
: > with the restrictions, so he went on insulin. Seems to
: > be working well for him, if you ignore his two artificial
: > legs and his heart attack. Very dis-hearting. I suspect the
: > wild BG swings and the insulin itself (too much is toxic) may
: > be to account. Yikes! Thank you not, I will keep my feet.
: > I am rather fond of them.

: What do you mean by restrictions? And what does insulin have to do with
: anything? Some people need it. Doesn't mean that they've failed at
: anything.

Some popoe don't tyr to control their diabetes or don't want to try so
they think that by taking insulin they cna eat anything they want. As you
know, this is not true. Many need insulin, but others prefer to use it
than to try to control teir disese any other way. this is not your case
and no one is accusing you.

Wendy

"W. Baker" > wrote in message
...
> Julie Bove > wrote:
>
> : "Todd" > wrote in message
> : ...
> : > On 01/31/2013 02:23 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
> : >>> My wife's side of the family has a T2 that is 92 years old.
> : >>> >So, as long as we watch ourselves, we will be fine. I think
> : >>> >of it as a lifestyle, not as a disease. (Though I know of a guy
> : >>> >who refused the restrictions and lost both legs then
> : >>> >his life at age 52 or so. Don't remember the exact number.
> : >>> >He must have really likes sweets and pizza.)
> : >>> >
> : >>> >-T
> : >
> : >> I know plenty of diabetics who eat pizza and sweets. Not saying that
> : >> it's
> : >> right. Or wrong or whatever. Still doesn't mean that we'll lose a
> limb.
> : >
> : > I talked to a T2 yesterday. He told me he could not put up
> : > with the restrictions, so he went on insulin. Seems to
> : > be working well for him, if you ignore his two artificial
> : > legs and his heart attack. Very dis-hearting. I suspect the
> : > wild BG swings and the insulin itself (too much is toxic) may
> : > be to account. Yikes! Thank you not, I will keep my feet.
> : > I am rather fond of them.
>
> : What do you mean by restrictions? And what does insulin have to do with
> : anything? Some people need it. Doesn't mean that they've failed at
> : anything.
>
> Some popoe don't tyr to control their diabetes or don't want to try so
> they think that by taking insulin they cna eat anything they want. As you
> know, this is not true. Many need insulin, but others prefer to use it
> than to try to control teir disese any other way. this is not your case
> and no one is accusing you.

Yes, it certainly isn't true. It also isn't true that just because a person
doesn't eat a low carb diet that they will lose limbs.

Julie Bove > wrote:

: "W. Baker" > wrote in message
: ...
: > Julie Bove > wrote:
: >
: > : "Todd" > wrote in message
: > : ...
: > : > On 01/31/2013 02:23 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
: > : >>> My wife's side of the family has a T2 that is 92 years old.
: > : >>> >So, as long as we watch ourselves, we will be fine. I think
: > : >>> >of it as a lifestyle, not as a disease. (Though I know of a guy
: > : >>> >who refused the restrictions and lost both legs then
: > : >>> >his life at age 52 or so. Don't remember the exact number.
: > : >>> >He must have really likes sweets and pizza.)
: > : >>> >
: > : >>> >-T
: > : >
: > : >> I know plenty of diabetics who eat pizza and sweets. Not saying that
: > : >> it's
: > : >> right. Or wrong or whatever. Still doesn't mean that we'll lose a
: > limb.
: > : >
: > : > I talked to a T2 yesterday. He told me he could not put up
: > : > with the restrictions, so he went on insulin. Seems to
: > : > be working well for him, if you ignore his two artificial
: > : > legs and his heart attack. Very dis-hearting. I suspect the
: > : > wild BG swings and the insulin itself (too much is toxic) may
: > : > be to account. Yikes! Thank you not, I will keep my feet.
: > : > I am rather fond of them.
: >
: > : What do you mean by restrictions? And what does insulin have to do with
: > : anything? Some people need it. Doesn't mean that they've failed at
: > : anything.
: >
: > Some popoe don't tyr to control their diabetes or don't want to try so
: > they think that by taking insulin they cna eat anything they want. As you
: > know, this is not true. Many need insulin, but others prefer to use it
: > than to try to control teir disese any other way. this is not your case
: > and no one is accusing you.

: Yes, it certainly isn't true. It also isn't true that just because a person
: doesn't eat a low carb diet that they will lose limbs.


Nothing is certain in any disease. Lots of very fat people never get tye
2 diabetes, but the liklihood is higher if you are fat. Not all
uncontrolled diabetics lose limbs, but in general well controlled ones
don't and there is a higer liklihood of losing one if uncotrolled.

living uncotrolled may or may not give you terrible problems, but tempting
fate by not trying to controll is foolishness and increases the liklihood
that you will get complications like vision problems, blindness, loss of
limbs cardio cascular diseases, etc. Nothing is guarannteed and until you
get a side effect you don't have it. Gastroparesis , actually a form of
neuropathy, is considered a complication of diabetes too that, as Julie
can testify, is not something you want to food with.

Wendy

On 01/28/2013 06:18 PM, Todd wrote:
> On 01/28/2013 03:25 AM, Julie Bove wrote:
>> How often do you eat them? I have several jars that I bought but I
>> rarely
>> think to eat them. And while they used to be commonly put on your plate
>> when you ordered a burger or sandwich in a restaurant, they rarely are
>> here
>> any more. So once I can stop writing down my food intake for the day,
>> I'm
>> going to make more of an effort to eat them. But right now eating
>> anything
>> extra is a PITA because there's no room on my paper to write the food
>> down.
>>
>> Used to be that pickles were always on the list of daily menu plans for
>> diabetics. Perhaps because they are fat free and low in calories. But I
>> rarely see anyone eating them now.
>
> Hi Julie,
>
> I use Raley's Full circle Organic Dill pickles in my
> lunches. The Vinegar is a bit strong. So they take a
> bit to eat. Allows the rest of my lunch to catch up
> with me. Love them with a bite of cheese. I try not
> to eat them at home so I won't get tired of them.
>
> I also LOVE Trader Joe's Organic Dill sandwich slices
> on my Cave Man sandwiches. (Sub lettuce for bread.)
> These pickles are sliced long ways, so they are
> quick to make up a sandwich.
>
> I think one of the main problem with Cave Man cooking
> is the lack of variety. Can't eat the same things over
> and over.
>
> -T
>

Speaking of pickles, I save the jar of pickle juice
after consuming the pickles. When Organic Persian
cucumbers come back in season at Trader Joe's, I cut
them in half and soak them in the pickle juice. Takes
about a week.

On 02/01/2013 03:59 PM, W. Baker wrote:
> Julie Bove > wrote:
>
> : "W. Baker" > wrote in message
> : ...
> : > Julie Bove > wrote:
> : >
> : > : "Todd" > wrote in message
> : > : ...
> : > : > On 01/31/2013 02:23 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
> : > : >>> My wife's side of the family has a T2 that is 92 years old.
> : > : >>> >So, as long as we watch ourselves, we will be fine. I think
> : > : >>> >of it as a lifestyle, not as a disease. (Though I know of a guy
> : > : >>> >who refused the restrictions and lost both legs then
> : > : >>> >his life at age 52 or so. Don't remember the exact number.
> : > : >>> >He must have really likes sweets and pizza.)
> : > : >>> >
> : > : >>> >-T
> : > : >
> : > : >> I know plenty of diabetics who eat pizza and sweets. Not saying that
> : > : >> it's
> : > : >> right. Or wrong or whatever. Still doesn't mean that we'll lose a
> : > limb.
> : > : >
> : > : > I talked to a T2 yesterday. He told me he could not put up
> : > : > with the restrictions, so he went on insulin. Seems to
> : > : > be working well for him, if you ignore his two artificial
> : > : > legs and his heart attack. Very dis-hearting. I suspect the
> : > : > wild BG swings and the insulin itself (too much is toxic) may
> : > : > be to account. Yikes! Thank you not, I will keep my feet.
> : > : > I am rather fond of them.
> : >
> : > : What do you mean by restrictions? And what does insulin have to do with
> : > : anything? Some people need it. Doesn't mean that they've failed at
> : > : anything.
> : >
> : > Some popoe don't tyr to control their diabetes or don't want to try so
> : > they think that by taking insulin they cna eat anything they want. As you
> : > know, this is not true. Many need insulin, but others prefer to use it
> : > than to try to control teir disese any other way. this is not your case
> : > and no one is accusing you.
>
> : Yes, it certainly isn't true. It also isn't true that just because a person
> : doesn't eat a low carb diet that they will lose limbs.
>
>
> Nothing is certain in any disease. Lots of very fat people never get tye
> 2 diabetes, but the liklihood is higher if you are fat. Not all
> uncontrolled diabetics lose limbs, but in general well controlled ones
> don't and there is a higer liklihood of losing one if uncotrolled.
>
> living uncotrolled may or may not give you terrible problems, but tempting
> fate by not trying to controll is foolishness and increases the liklihood
> that you will get complications like vision problems, blindness, loss of
> limbs cardio cascular diseases, etc. Nothing is guarannteed and until you
> get a side effect you don't have it. Gastroparesis , actually a form of
> neuropathy, is considered a complication of diabetes too that, as Julie
> can testify, is not something you want to food with.
>
> Wendy
>

The T2 I spoke of was wearing short pants, making with mechanical
feet very obvious, while he made himself a hamburger on a huge
white bread bun (solid sugar) and smeared catchup (liquid sugar)
all over it. I was freaking out pointing at the stuff. He didn't
care. We said he went on insulin as he couldn't take the
restrictions. Broke my heart. He is a really nice guy too.

I have "heard" that carbs can be addictive. They create some kind
of weird chemistry in the brain. He must have it really bad.

To me "carbs" are poison, both intellectually and emotionally.
So, I guess not to judge unless you walk in some else's
shoes.

-T

On 02/01/2013 04:09 PM, Todd wrote:
> I guess not to judge unless you walk in some else's
> shoes.

Or his prosthetics .... :'(

"Todd" > wrote in message
...
>
> The T2 I spoke of was wearing short pants, making with mechanical
> feet very obvious, while he made himself a hamburger on a huge
> white bread bun (solid sugar) and smeared catchup (liquid sugar)
> all over it. I was freaking out pointing at the stuff. He didn't
> care. We said he went on insulin as he couldn't take the
> restrictions. Broke my heart. He is a really nice guy too.

Buns are not solid sugar! And ketchup isn't liquid sugar although it
usually contains some or HFCS but you can get the SF stuff.
>
> I have "heard" that carbs can be addictive. They create some kind
> of weird chemistry in the brain. He must have it really bad.

For some people they are. Certainly not all. And you shouldn't make
assumptions about others. Here in the US, eating a burger on a bun is not
at all unusual.
>
> To me "carbs" are poison, both intellectually and emotionally.
> So, I guess not to judge unless you walk in some else's
> shoes.

Very true.

On 02/02/2013 12:36 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
> "Todd" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> The T2 I spoke of was wearing short pants, making with mechanical
>> feet very obvious, while he made himself a hamburger on a huge
>> white bread bun (solid sugar) and smeared catchup (liquid sugar)
>> all over it. I was freaking out pointing at the stuff. He didn't
>> care. We said he went on insulin as he couldn't take the
>> restrictions. Broke my heart. He is a really nice guy too.
>
> Buns are not solid sugar! And ketchup isn't liquid sugar although it
> usually contains some or HFCS but you can get the SF stuff.

One slice of wheat bread is 12 grams of carbs. A hamburger bun
is two thick pieces. So a least 24 grams if not more.

http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/...roducts/4868/2

Ketchup is 4 grams of carb per tablespoon. You can guess how many
tablespoons he squirted on. So a least 12 grams.

http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/...roducts/3005/2

If he only ate one burger and nothing else, he would be at least
up to 36 grams! That is really keeping it down to 15! Yikes.

And, he had had a heart attack and lost both of his feet.
Very, very sad. He is a really nice guy too.


>>
>> I have "heard" that carbs can be addictive. They create some kind
>> of weird chemistry in the brain. He must have it really bad.
>
> For some people they are. Certainly not all. And you shouldn't make
> assumptions about others. Here in the US, eating a burger on a bun is not
> at all unusual.

It is INSANE for a T2. The rest, I would agree. I was speaking
of a T2.

By the way, Wendy's and In and Out will do Protein Style burger
for around 14 grams of carb. If it is not enough food they both
will add extra cheese. (They sub lettuce for the bun and no ketchup
or secret sauce.)

>>
>> To me "carbs" are poison, both intellectually and emotionally.
>> So, I guess not to judge unless you walk in some else's
>> shoes.
>
> Very true.

He may rather be dead than be without his carbs. It breaks
my heart to see him walking around on his mechanical legs.
Especially knowing it was self inflicted and was under
his control not to have this happen to him.

-T

"Todd" > wrote in message
...
> On 02/02/2013 12:36 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>> "Todd" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> The T2 I spoke of was wearing short pants, making with mechanical
>>> feet very obvious, while he made himself a hamburger on a huge
>>> white bread bun (solid sugar) and smeared catchup (liquid sugar)
>>> all over it. I was freaking out pointing at the stuff. He didn't
>>> care. We said he went on insulin as he couldn't take the
>>> restrictions. Broke my heart. He is a really nice guy too.
>>
>> Buns are not solid sugar! And ketchup isn't liquid sugar although it
>> usually contains some or HFCS but you can get the SF stuff.
>
> One slice of wheat bread is 12 grams of carbs. A hamburger bun
> is two thick pieces. So a least 24 grams if not more.
>
> http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/...roducts/4868/2
>
> Ketchup is 4 grams of carb per tablespoon. You can guess how many
> tablespoons he squirted on. So a least 12 grams.
>
> http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/...roducts/3005/2
>
> If he only ate one burger and nothing else, he would be at least
> up to 36 grams! That is really keeping it down to 15! Yikes.
>
> And, he had had a heart attack and lost both of his feet.
> Very, very sad. He is a really nice guy too.
>
>
>>>
>>> I have "heard" that carbs can be addictive. They create some kind
>>> of weird chemistry in the brain. He must have it really bad.
>>
>> For some people they are. Certainly not all. And you shouldn't make
>> assumptions about others. Here in the US, eating a burger on a bun is
>> not
>> at all unusual.
>
> It is INSANE for a T2. The rest, I would agree. I was speaking
> of a T2.
>
> By the way, Wendy's and In and Out will do Protein Style burger
> for around 14 grams of carb. If it is not enough food they both
> will add extra cheese. (They sub lettuce for the bun and no ketchup
> or secret sauce.)
>
>>>
>>> To me "carbs" are poison, both intellectually and emotionally.
>>> So, I guess not to judge unless you walk in some else's
>>> shoes.
>>
>> Very true.
>
> He may rather be dead than be without his carbs. It breaks
> my heart to see him walking around on his mechanical legs.
> Especially knowing it was self inflicted and was under
> his control not to have this happen to him.
>
> -T


Obviously, it wasn't under his control or he would have done whatever it
takes. Some people fall into the category of addicted when it comes to
carbs.

Cheri

On 02/02/2013 06:21 PM, Cheri wrote:
>> He may rather be dead than be without his carbs. It breaks
>> my heart to see him walking around on his mechanical legs.
>> Especially knowing it was self inflicted and was under
>> his control not to have this happen to him.
>>
>> -T
>
>
> Obviously, it wasn't under his control or he would have done whatever it
> takes. Some people fall into the category of addicted when it comes to
> carbs.
>
> Cheri

Hi Cheri,

He told me he just wouldn't put up with the restrictions. He
said he moved to insulin so he could eat whatever he wants. The
addiction thing makes sense. It also may be one of those "different
strokes for different folks" things. Freedom is an awesome thing.

And, since I love my feet right where they are, I do have to
remember not to judge unless one walks first in someone else's
shoes, or in this case, someone else's prosthetics.

I am also very blessed by a wife that got so angry that
the food I was eating did this to me, that she insists that
we both are on the same diet. I have the greatest family
support anyone could ask for. She is a delicate, sweet,
famine thing that turns into a fierce mama bear when one
of her loved ones is in danger. I am very blessed.

-T

It has been said about the western diet that we are consuming
vast quantities of food like substances and starving at the
same time because of it.

"Todd" > wrote in message
...
> On 02/02/2013 12:36 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>> "Todd" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> The T2 I spoke of was wearing short pants, making with mechanical
>>> feet very obvious, while he made himself a hamburger on a huge
>>> white bread bun (solid sugar) and smeared catchup (liquid sugar)
>>> all over it. I was freaking out pointing at the stuff. He didn't
>>> care. We said he went on insulin as he couldn't take the
>>> restrictions. Broke my heart. He is a really nice guy too.
>>
>> Buns are not solid sugar! And ketchup isn't liquid sugar although it
>> usually contains some or HFCS but you can get the SF stuff.
>
> One slice of wheat bread is 12 grams of carbs. A hamburger bun
> is two thick pieces. So a least 24 grams if not more.
>
> http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/...roducts/4868/2

Carbs and sugar are not the same thing.
>
> Ketchup is 4 grams of carb per tablespoon. You can guess how many
> tablespoons he squirted on. So a least 12 grams.
>
> http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/...roducts/3005/2

So? Every *body* is different. So he ate what... 36g of carbs? That's
not a lot and some would even consider that to be low carb. If I ate that
as a meal you could guarantee that I'd have a hypo about 2 hours later.
That's not enough carbs for me! I eat 45g for dinner. About 30g for
breakfast. I don't do lunch.
>
> If he only ate one burger and nothing else, he would be at least
> up to 36 grams! That is really keeping it down to 15! Yikes.

So what? Again that's not a lot of carbs.
>
> And, he had had a heart attack and lost both of his feet.
> Very, very sad. He is a really nice guy too.


>
>
>>>
>>> I have "heard" that carbs can be addictive. They create some kind
>>> of weird chemistry in the brain. He must have it really bad.
>>
>> For some people they are. Certainly not all. And you shouldn't make
>> assumptions about others. Here in the US, eating a burger on a bun is
>> not
>> at all unusual.
>
> It is INSANE for a T2. The rest, I would agree. I was speaking
> of a T2.

No it is not and your comments are starting to tick me off. Low carb most
certainly does not work for every *body*. If I ate like you did, my BG
would be up over 300 all the time. I know because I did try that. Do I eat
burgers with buns? Rarely. Why? I don't really like buns. I'd rather eat
fries or something else. I don't really even like burgers but it is one
safe meal I can get in a restaurant. I have multiple food intolerances.
>
> By the way, Wendy's and In and Out will do Protein Style burger
> for around 14 grams of carb. If it is not enough food they both
> will add extra cheese. (They sub lettuce for the bun and no ketchup
> or secret sauce.)
>
So? Not everyone likes a burger in lettuce. I know I don't! Makes the
lettuce soggy. Any restaurant, fast food or otherwise will serve you a
hamburger patty with no bun.
>>>
>>> To me "carbs" are poison, both intellectually and emotionally.
>>> So, I guess not to judge unless you walk in some else's
>>> shoes.
>>
>> Very true.
>
> He may rather be dead than be without his carbs. It breaks
> my heart to see him walking around on his mechanical legs.
> Especially knowing it was self inflicted and was under
> his control not to have this happen to him.

You are REALLY jumping to assumptions here. Nobody here knows how he lost
his limbs or if the heart attack was related to diabetes. Your saying that
this was self inflicted is a very, very rude thing to say. How do you think
this man would feel if he knew that you were saying things like this about
him? Were you there when he lost his limbs? Do you know the actual cause?

"Todd" > wrote in message
...
> On 02/02/2013 06:21 PM, Cheri wrote:
>>> He may rather be dead than be without his carbs. It breaks
>>> my heart to see him walking around on his mechanical legs.
>>> Especially knowing it was self inflicted and was under
>>> his control not to have this happen to him.
>>>
>>> -T
>>
>>
>> Obviously, it wasn't under his control or he would have done whatever it
>> takes. Some people fall into the category of addicted when it comes to
>> carbs.
>>
>> Cheri
>
> Hi Cheri,
>
> He told me he just wouldn't put up with the restrictions. He
> said he moved to insulin so he could eat whatever he wants. The
> addiction thing makes sense. It also may be one of those "different
> strokes for different folks" things. Freedom is an awesome thing.
>
People who are on insulin can NOT eat whatever they want and I really wish
you would quit saying that. Your posts here are soo full of misinformation
that they are ticking me right off. I would just kill file you but I fear
that what you are saying is potentially dangerous information to a newcomer
and/or someone who doesn't know any better.

You have mentioned these "restrictions" several times but haven't said what
they were. Did someone tell him to eat a specific diet? If so, what was
it?

My dad, brother and I all take insulin. None of us can ever eat whatever we
want or even necessarily *when* we want. Yes, I am eating less carbs than
before. My favorite meal used to be a pinto bean burrito with a side of
pinto beans and rice! No way could I eat that now. Once in a while I will
get a burrito with meat and eat some of the tortilla but those restaurant
tortillas are huge and I know that it is too many carbs for me. But I don't
eat meat much so I usually eat something else. Today I had black bean soup.
BG was fine before and after.

> And, since I love my feet right where they are, I do have to
> remember not to judge unless one walks first in someone else's
> shoes, or in this case, someone else's prosthetics.

Please provide a cite that eating carbs cause you to lose a limb. If they
did, then we'd all not be walking around? Right? Or typing with a pen in
our mouth due to lack of arms. I know two diabetics who lost toes. One was
a type 1 and the other was type 2. I don't know the particulars of the type
1 but she died soon after. I suspect there were a lot of other medical
things I didn't know about. The type 2 was elderly, couldn't understand the
diet he was put on which at the time was the Exchange plan and didn't seek
medical care when he should have. People where I worked did try to feed
him the right diet when he was there but he took some meals elsewhere. And
was clearly not in good medical shape besides the diabetes. Not sure his
cause of death but the removal of the toes started with an infection. Not
from eating carbs.

There was an amputee named Guy who used to post here. He claims his problem
started with a fungal infection. Not from eating carbs.
>
> I am also very blessed by a wife that got so angry that
> the food I was eating did this to me, that she insists that
> we both are on the same diet. I have the greatest family
> support anyone could ask for. She is a delicate, sweet,
> famine thing that turns into a fierce mama bear when one
> of her loved ones is in danger. I am very blessed.
>
The food that you ate did not give you diabetes. More misinformation. I
don't think you are blessed if your wife is in famine.
> -T
>
> It has been said about the western diet that we are consuming
> vast quantities of food like substances and starving at the
> same time because of it.

Said who? Oh I probably don't want to know. You very much remind me of a
former poster here. He left. Got annoyed with us I guess. Because we
weren't buying what he said.

On 02/03/2013 02:09 AM, Julie Bove wrote:
>> i Cheri,
>> >
>> > He told me he just wouldn't put up with the restrictions. He
>> >said he moved to insulin so he could eat whatever he wants. The
>> >addiction thing makes sense. It also may be one of those "different
>> >strokes for different folks" things. Freedom is an awesome thing.
>> >
> People who are on insulin can NOT eat whatever they want and I really wish
> you would quit saying that.

Hi Julie,

I agree with you completely. Insulin uses don't get a free ride
to eat whatever they want.

> Your posts here are soo full of misinformation
> that they are ticking me right off. I would just kill file you but I fear
> that what you are saying is potentially dangerous information to a newcomer
> and/or someone who doesn't know any better.

I am agreeing with you. Why are you getting ****ed at me? Even if
we did not agree, have I been rude or ungentlemanly in any way?

>
> You have mentioned these "restrictions" several times but haven't said what
> they were. Did someone tell him to eat a specific diet? If so, what was
> it?

Yes! Both my ER doctor and my new GP gave me very specific information
as to what I could and could not eat. It is all over the web too.
Basically, in a nutshell: nothing refined, carbs and sugar are the
same thing (blood glucose wise), keep you carbs to 15 per meal,
and keep your carbs to 60 max per day. I didn't reference this
as I thought everyone got this lecture. I was even given carb
reference books. And warned about liars glucose, such as Maltodextrin.
Also told me I have to exercise.

>
> My dad, brother and I all take insulin. None of us can ever eat whatever we
> want or even necessarily*when* we want.

When did I say this? If you could help me here and quote me, it would
help me improve my writing so as not to be so badly misunderstood.
You obviously think I said this, so I must have written something
wrong.

Giving you the benefit of the doubt that you are not deliberately
trying to pick a fight, the only thing I can think happened was that
I was speaking of one specific individual who admitted to me
he used insulin so he could eat whatever he wanted and did not
make it clear that I was only talking about one specific individual
and you thought I was talking about all insulin users.

> Yes, I am eating less carbs than
> before. My favorite meal used to be a pinto bean burrito with a side of
> pinto beans and rice! No way could I eat that now. Once in a while I will
> get a burrito with meat and eat some of the tortilla but those restaurant
> tortillas are huge and I know that it is too many carbs for me. But I don't
> eat meat much so I usually eat something else. Today I had black bean soup.
> BG was fine before and after.

This is very good news! I do miss beans, but not that much.

>
>> > And, since I love my feet right where they are, I do have to
>> >remember not to judge unless one walks first in someone else's
>> >shoes, or in this case, someone else's prosthetics.

> Please provide a cite that eating carbs cause you to lose a limb.

Okay.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/dia...=complications

You didn't get this lecture?


> If they
> did, then we'd all not be walking around? Right? Or typing with a pen in
> our mouth due to lack of arms. I know two diabetics who lost toes. One was
> a type 1 and the other was type 2. I don't know the particulars of the type
> 1 but she died soon after. I suspect there were a lot of other medical
> things I didn't know about. The type 2 was elderly, couldn't understand the
> diet he was put on which at the time was the Exchange plan and didn't seek
> medical care when he should have. People where I worked did try to feed
> him the right diet when he was there but he took some meals elsewhere. And
> was clearly not in good medical shape besides the diabetes. Not sure his
> cause of death but the removal of the toes started with an infection. Not
> from eating carbs.

Eat carbs, up goes blood glucose, neuropathy sets in, loose body
parts. You did not get this lecture either?

> There was an amputee named Guy who used to post here. He claims his problem
> started with a fungal infection. Not from eating carbs.

The individual I spoke of dropped something of his foot. Two
weeks apart on each foot. Got infected. Went into gangerine.
It started with carbs. Guy probably had neuropathy. And
that indeed started with too many carbs.


>> >
>> > I am also very blessed by a wife that got so angry that
>> >the food I was eating did this to me, that she insists that
>> >we both are on the same diet. I have the greatest family
>> >support anyone could ask for. She is a delicate, sweet,
>> >famine thing that turns into a fierce mama bear when one
>> >of her loved ones is in danger. I am very blessed.

> The food that you ate did not give you diabetes. More misinformation.

I do believe it did. Both my ER doctor and my new GP said
I burn myself out. Humans were designed to be hunter
gathers, not carb eaters. There are references all over
the web to this.

> I
> don't think you are blessed if your wife is in famine.

Funny typo. That should have been "feminine". She is
the sweetest, prettiest thing on the face of this earth.
Also, the smartest person I know (165+ IQ). I am truly
blessed.

>> >-T
>> >
>> >It has been said about the western diet that we are consuming
>> >vast quantities of food like substances and starving at the
>> >same time because of it.

> Said who?

If you have Netflix/Roku, take a watch at a documentary called
"Hungry for Change". There are other references too.

Here is another good reference:
http://www.marksdailyapple.com
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/the-p...ate-continuum/
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/diabetes/

> Oh I probably don't want to know. You very much remind me of a
> former poster here. He left. Got annoyed with us I guess. Because we
> weren't buying what he said.

Julie, if you think I have said something offensive or incorrect,
just tell me so. Don't get ****ed. I am a nice guy. We
can work things out.

Bon appetit!

-T

"Todd" > wrote in message
...
> On 02/03/2013 02:09 AM, Julie Bove wrote:
>>> i Cheri,
>>> >
>>> > He told me he just wouldn't put up with the restrictions. He
>>> >said he moved to insulin so he could eat whatever he wants. The
>>> >addiction thing makes sense. It also may be one of those "different
>>> >strokes for different folks" things. Freedom is an awesome thing.
>>> >
>> People who are on insulin can NOT eat whatever they want and I really
>> wish
>> you would quit saying that.
>
> Hi Julie,
>
> I agree with you completely. Insulin uses don't get a free ride
> to eat whatever they want.
>
>> Your posts here are soo full of misinformation
>> that they are ticking me right off. I would just kill file you but I
>> fear
>> that what you are saying is potentially dangerous information to a
>> newcomer
>> and/or someone who doesn't know any better.
>
> I am agreeing with you. Why are you getting ****ed at me? Even if
> we did not agree, have I been rude or ungentlemanly in any way?
>
>>
>> You have mentioned these "restrictions" several times but haven't said
>> what
>> they were. Did someone tell him to eat a specific diet? If so, what was
>> it?
>
> Yes! Both my ER doctor and my new GP gave me very specific information
> as to what I could and could not eat. It is all over the web too.
> Basically, in a nutshell: nothing refined, carbs and sugar are the
> same thing (blood glucose wise), keep you carbs to 15 per meal,
> and keep your carbs to 60 max per day. I didn't reference this
> as I thought everyone got this lecture. I was even given carb
> reference books. And warned about liars glucose, such as Maltodextrin.
> Also told me I have to exercise.

I am not talking about *you*. I meant this man that you keep referring to.
Not everyone gets this "lecture" and I certainly did not. There is no way I
could eat a diet like that. I do not have a GP handling my diabetes. I see
an Endo. for that. He doesn't give dietary advice. He has us see a
dietician. And I have never heard the term "liars glucose" before.

The dietician I just saw said that she is not there to tell me what to eat
or not to eat and that I seemed to know a lot about nutrition. She did say
that everyone needs 130 grams of carbohydrate per day to keep their brains
functioning properly and if they don't get that much, they could have memory
problems.

That being said, I take *everything* people tell me, no matter who they are
with a big grain of salt. I have been given wrong advice from Drs. and
dieticians before. I'm not trying to say that all Drs. or all dieticians
are bad. Just that everyone can make mistakes.
>
>>
>> My dad, brother and I all take insulin. None of us can ever eat whatever
>> we
>> want or even necessarily*when* we want.
>
> When did I say this? If you could help me here and quote me, it would
> help me improve my writing so as not to be so badly misunderstood.
> You obviously think I said this, so I must have written something
> wrong.

You were talking about this amputee man that you knew. Said he didn't want
the dietary restrictions so he went on insulin so that he could eat whatever
he wanted. Here's the quote. It was even left unsnipped from above.

">>> > He told me he just wouldn't put up with the restrictions. He
>>> >said he moved to insulin so he could eat whatever he wants. The
>>> >addiction thing makes sense. It also may be one of those "different
>>> >strokes for different folks" things. Freedom is an awesome thing."

>
> Giving you the benefit of the doubt that you are not deliberately
> trying to pick a fight, the only thing I can think happened was that
> I was speaking of one specific individual who admitted to me
> he used insulin so he could eat whatever he wanted and did not
> make it clear that I was only talking about one specific individual
> and you thought I was talking about all insulin users.

I am not trying to pick a fight but... I am getting tired of this staunch
anti-carb stance that you have. Whatever you do is fine for you if it works
for you. But you are trying to make it sound like it is what we all do or
what we all should do. That just isn't the case.

You have posted a lot of stuff about this man and I really don't know why.
It's as though you are using this particular man as an example for what is
normal or what would happen if we eat carbs. And I know plenty of diabetics
both online and in my own life. This scenario just doesn't bear out for us.
So if you know something otherwise, some sort of proof about what exactly
happened to this man and exactly why, then I wish you would give a cite for
that.
>
>> Yes, I am eating less carbs than
>> before. My favorite meal used to be a pinto bean burrito with a side of
>> pinto beans and rice! No way could I eat that now. Once in a while I
>> will
>> get a burrito with meat and eat some of the tortilla but those restaurant
>> tortillas are huge and I know that it is too many carbs for me. But I
>> don't
>> eat meat much so I usually eat something else. Today I had black bean
>> soup.
>> BG was fine before and after.
>
> This is very good news! I do miss beans, but not that much.

Well since they are my favorite food, I would certainly miss them if I
couldn't eat them.
>
>>
>>> > And, since I love my feet right where they are, I do have to
>>> >remember not to judge unless one walks first in someone else's
>>> >shoes, or in this case, someone else's prosthetics.
>
>> Please provide a cite that eating carbs cause you to lose a limb.
>
> Okay.
>
> http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/dia...=complications
>
> You didn't get this lecture?

Nobody gave me any lecture whatever. Ever. Why would they? I'm an adult.
Most people don't lecture other adults and that technique isn't even really
effective with kids. I am perfectly aware of what neuropathy is. I have it
in my feet, legs and stomach. Perhaps even my heart. Mine was present upon
diagnosis.

Your link didn't prove a thing! It just said that it "can" cause. Not that
it will. You seem to be taking an all or nothing approach to things and
living in fear. At least that is how you are coming across to me. I could
be wrong on this. I do realize that it is difficult at times to know what
people really mean when they are just typing things out.

You also seem to be assuming that just because some medical professional
told *you* something that the rest of us were told the same thing. And
that's usually not the case at all.

I have that Joslin book about diabetes that comes out every few years or so.
Costs something like $150 and is aimed at Drs. In it, it says that there
are over 300 variants of diabetes. And yet most of us are lumped into
either the type 1 or type 2 categories. And clearly, based on what I have
seen here and on the other diabetes newsgroups, I am not your typical or
standard or average or whatever type 2 diabetic. What seems to apply to
other people in those newsgroups rarely seems to work for me.

But... As I said, I have a brother and dad who are both diabetics. Both
were able to eat a *lot* more carbs than I could and at times this would be
frustrating and annoying to me. But... Without writing a novel on how this
came about, my dad is elderly and now in a home for elderly people. Most of
the "inmates" there are diabetic. They have these people on a very carb
controlled diet. He is now eating not only less carbs than he did before
but less food in total. He has lost some weight, when he needed to do.
They are also testing his BG far more often than he would have done at home.
And because he has memory issues, he is for the most part going along with
this. But he still eats more carbs than you do and now he has much better
BG than he did before. I also have a friend who at times eats more carbs
than I do and claims to have BG that ranges from 70-90 almost all the time.
But... I also know that some of these people do not test at the same times
that I do or as frequently as I sometimes do.

I also know that if I were to get a true indication of how my BG is, then
perhaps I would need that device that they implant into your stomach (or at
least they implant the needle) to test your BG every 5 seconds. I do not
want this to be done but perhaps may need to have it done. I say this
because I am catching hypos followed by huge spikes. So my suspicion is
that I am catching the hypo just as my liver is dumping glucose. But I
guess I will never know unless I do do this because testing every 15 minutes
is not catching it.
>
>
>> If they
>> did, then we'd all not be walking around? Right? Or typing with a pen
>> in
>> our mouth due to lack of arms. I know two diabetics who lost toes. One
>> was
>> a type 1 and the other was type 2. I don't know the particulars of the
>> type
>> 1 but she died soon after. I suspect there were a lot of other medical
>> things I didn't know about. The type 2 was elderly, couldn't understand
>> the
>> diet he was put on which at the time was the Exchange plan and didn't
>> seek
>> medical care when he should have. People where I worked did try to feed
>> him the right diet when he was there but he took some meals elsewhere.
>> And
>> was clearly not in good medical shape besides the diabetes. Not sure his
>> cause of death but the removal of the toes started with an infection.
>> Not
>> from eating carbs.
>
> Eat carbs, up goes blood glucose, neuropathy sets in, loose body
> parts. You did not get this lecture either?

Um... No. Again, nobody gave me a lecture. And if somebody actually told
you that (which I suspect they did not), then they told you something wrong.
And for you to continue say this over and over is wrong! Eating *too many*
carbs for *your* body can cause BG to go up. High BG *can* cause neuropathy
but so can other things. People with certain back injuries can get
neuropathy and so can anorexics. Or bulimics.
>
>> There was an amputee named Guy who used to post here. He claims his
>> problem
>> started with a fungal infection. Not from eating carbs.
>
> The individual I spoke of dropped something of his foot. Two
> weeks apart on each foot. Got infected. Went into gangerine.
> It started with carbs. Guy probably had neuropathy. And
> that indeed started with too many carbs.

No. It didn't start with carbs. It started when he dropped something on
his feet and then there was the infection. We do not know from there if he
treated the infection properly. I do not know if Guy had neuropathy or not
but I do know that he didn't eat a lot of carbs. And he was a type 1! He
was posting here long before I came here so I only know what he posted after
I came here. I believe that his wife was Latino and he used to say that he
couldn't always eat everything that she made. If she made tacos, he could
eat one.

I have several diabetics in my family. They've had diabetes for a lot
longer than I have. My husband's uncle was a diabetic. All of them ate
carbs. In limited amounts. None of them had neuropathy. None of my
friends who are diabetic have neuropathy. AFAIK, my brother does not have
it. My dad *does* have it but it was hard to get him to the point of
diagnosis because he has sooo many other medical problems that caused
similar symptoms. I suspected the neuropathy but was ignored about what I
said for many years because my parents are such that they place firm belief
in anything the Dr. says. They rarely ask questions or seek out a new
diagnosis. Sadly a lot of elderly people are that way. They are also of
the mindset that pills are wonderful things and if the Dr. will give them
some, that's great! And that they don't have to do much else besides taking
those pills. But there are a lot of people who think like that too, elderly
or not. I am not one of them.

My dad's diabetes came about following a terrible attack of pancreatitis and
also gall bladder problems which are often related. I don't know that
people who have these probems *always* wind up with diabetes but he was told
that he might. He was told to monitor his BG and follow his diet that was
given to him by the dietician but he did not. Had he done this, he may or
may not have staved off the diabetes. I do not know.

I was told that since I had gestational diabetes, I was more likely to get
type 2. So was my SIL and her sister, both of whom are like a size 0 if
that. In other words, little bitty things. Not typical type 2 diabetics.
SIL did not get diabetes. Her sister did. Her sister's diabetes progressed
very quickly and she is now on insulin. I can't speak for her sister's diet
having only seen her a few tims in my life. SIL does not eat low carb. Nor
does she eat high carb. Or a lot of food in general. She eats very tiny
meals. And she exercises a lot. She is also a nurse who knows a lot about
diabetes. But she had the GD with two of her pregnancies and it worsened
each time. I think she was on insulin with the last child. But I could be
wrong about that. In fact I know quite a few women who had GD. And not all
of them got type 2.
>
>
>>> >
>>> > I am also very blessed by a wife that got so angry that
>>> >the food I was eating did this to me, that she insists that
>>> >we both are on the same diet. I have the greatest family
>>> >support anyone could ask for. She is a delicate, sweet,
>>> >famine thing that turns into a fierce mama bear when one
>>> >of her loved ones is in danger. I am very blessed.
>
>> The food that you ate did not give you diabetes. More misinformation.
>
> I do believe it did. Both my ER doctor and my new GP said
> I burn myself out. Humans were designed to be hunter
> gathers, not carb eaters. There are references all over
> the web to this.

And there are just as many references to things like Ornish. Doesn't make
any of them right. You can believe what you want. But just like as with
religion, your saying it to us doesn't make it true. I know you are a
religious person. I don't believe in God. And there is nothing *you* could
say to me and no reference you could give me that would change my mind about
this. Just as there is no way I would ever go back to trying to eat like
you do. We "used" to be hunter gatherers. We're not now. Food history is
a hobby of mine. There are a lot of things we didn't know about nutrition
in the old days. And a lot of things that we instinctively knew that do
baffle me now. Like how did people know to eat lime (the mineral) with corn
to make the nutrients more bioavailable?
>
>> I
>> don't think you are blessed if your wife is in famine.
>
> Funny typo. That should have been "feminine". She is
> the sweetest, prettiest thing on the face of this earth.
> Also, the smartest person I know (165+ IQ). I am truly
> blessed.

Okay.
>
>>> >-T
>>> >
>>> >It has been said about the western diet that we are consuming
>>> >vast quantities of food like substances and starving at the
>>> >same time because of it.
>
>> Said who?
>
> If you have Netflix/Roku, take a watch at a documentary called
> "Hungry for Change". There are other references too.
>
> Here is another good reference:
> http://www.marksdailyapple.com
> http://www.marksdailyapple.com/the-p...ate-continuum/
> http://www.marksdailyapple.com/diabetes/
>

No thanks. You already gave me that daily apple link. I am not into that
stuff and I don't think he's anyu expert. I don't have Netflix and don't
know what Roku is. I also don't like watching documentaries unless they are
of interest to me. That certainly wouldn't be because it most likely isn't
true. I have read countless books on nutrition. I do usually find some
tidbits of useful and probably true information in each. But there has been
no one person who I think has it all right. I don't think there ever could
be. Because we keep discovering new information all of the time.

>> Oh I probably don't want to know. You very much remind me of a
>> former poster here. He left. Got annoyed with us I guess. Because we
>> weren't buying what he said.
>
> Julie, if you think I have said something offensive or incorrect,
> just tell me so. Don't get ****ed. I am a nice guy. We
> can work things out.

I think you have said a *lot* of incorrect information and I just did point
it out to you. It's not that you're rude but it's the way that you are
stating things. As though they are facts. And they're not. They're based
on something people have told you or what you have read.

To me, a fact would be something like that there is vitamin C in tomatoes,
and peppers and citrus fruits. We can prove this because this is something
that can be measured. And yes, I suppose another fact would be that even
among oranges, the amount of vitamin C in each one can vary. Perhaps due to
climate, the soil it was grown in, the fertilizer that was used, the amount
of water it was given while growing, etc.

But to say something simplistic like that carbs cause us to have things
amputated is like putting 2 and 2 together and getting 5. Not that I don't
frequently do that myself. Cuz I do!
>
> Bon appetit!
>
> -T
>

"W. Baker" > wrote:
> Julie Bove > wrote:
> : How often do you eat them? I have several jars that I bought but I
> : rarely think to eat them. And while they used to be commonly put on
> : your plate when you ordered a burger or sandwich in a restaurant, they
> : rarely are here any more. So once I can stop writing down my food
> : intake for the day, I'm going to make more of an effort to eat them.
> : But right now eating anything extra is a PITA because there's no room
> : on my paper to write the food down.
>
> I love my dill pickles. they always serve them here with burgers and
> many sandwiches(which I get without the bread). WhenI buy a jar I
> willhave them either with dinner or as a snack. I did find some
> artificially swetened sweet ghirkins wich I use in a fish salad recipe of
> my Mother's that is a lovely dish for lunch guests. Unfortunately, these
> are hard to find .

My 7 year old granddaughter and I love our homemade pickles. No vinegar,
just brine, garlic, a little hot Thai pepper and some fresh dill from Jun's
garden.

--
Nick, KI6VAV. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their
families: https://semperfifund.org https://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/
http://www.specialops.org/ http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/ ~Semper Fi~
http://www.woundedwarriors.ca/ http://www.legacy.com.au/ ~Semper Fi~

"Nick Cramer" > wrote in message
...
> "W. Baker" > wrote:
>> Julie Bove > wrote:
>> : How often do you eat them? I have several jars that I bought but I
>> : rarely think to eat them. And while they used to be commonly put on
>> : your plate when you ordered a burger or sandwich in a restaurant, they
>> : rarely are here any more. So once I can stop writing down my food
>> : intake for the day, I'm going to make more of an effort to eat them.
>> : But right now eating anything extra is a PITA because there's no room
>> : on my paper to write the food down.
>>
>> I love my dill pickles. they always serve them here with burgers and
>> many sandwiches(which I get without the bread). WhenI buy a jar I
>> willhave them either with dinner or as a snack. I did find some
>> artificially swetened sweet ghirkins wich I use in a fish salad recipe of
>> my Mother's that is a lovely dish for lunch guests. Unfortunately, these
>> are hard to find .
>
> My 7 year old granddaughter and I love our homemade pickles. No vinegar,
> just brine, garlic, a little hot Thai pepper and some fresh dill from
> Jun's
> garden.

Is the brine just salt and water then?

"Julie Bove" > wrote:
> "Nick Cramer" > wrote in message
> > "W. Baker" > wrote:
> >> Julie Bove > wrote:
> >> : How often do you eat them? I have several jars that I bought but I
> >> : rarely think to eat them. And while they used to be commonly put on
> >> : your plate when you ordered a burger or sandwich in a restaurant,
> >> : they rarely are here any more. So once I can stop writing down my
> >> : food intake for the day, I'm going to make more of an effort to eat
> >> : them. But right now eating anything extra is a PITA because there's
> >> : no room on my paper to write the food down.
> >>
> >> I love my dill pickles. they always serve them here with burgers and
> >> many sandwiches(which I get without the bread). WhenI buy a jar I
> >> willhave them either with dinner or as a snack. I did find some
> >> artificially swetened sweet ghirkins wich I use in a fish salad recipe
> >> of my Mother's that is a lovely dish for lunch guests. Unfortunately,
> >> these are hard to find .
> >
> > My 7 year old granddaughter and I love our homemade pickles. No
> > vinegar, just brine, garlic, a little hot Thai pepper and some fresh
> > dill from Jun's
> > garden.
>
> Is the brine just salt and water then?

Basically, yes. You might look he

http://www.wildfermentation.com/making-sour-pickles-2/

--
Nick, KI6VAV. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their
families: https://semperfifund.org https://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/
http://www.specialops.org/ http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/ ~Semper Fi~
http://www.woundedwarriors.ca/ http://www.legacy.com.au/ ~Semper Fi~

"Nick Cramer" > wrote in message
...
>> Is the brine just salt and water then?
>
> Basically, yes. You might look he
>
> http://www.wildfermentation.com/making-sour-pickles-2/

Thanks!

Julie Bove > wrote:
: >> There was an amputee named Guy who used to post here. He claims his
: >> problem
: >> started with a fungal infection. Not from eating carbs.
: >
: > The individual I spoke of dropped something of his foot. Two
: > weeks apart on each foot. Got infected. Went into gangerine.
: > It started with carbs. Guy probably had neuropathy. And
: > that indeed started with too many carbs.

: No. It didn't start with carbs. It started when he dropped something on
: his feet and then there was the infection. We do not know from there if he
: treated the infection properly. I do not know if Guy had neuropathy or not
: but I do know that he didn't eat a lot of carbs. And he was a type 1! He
: was posting here long before I came here so I only know what he posted after
: I came here. I believe that his wife was Latino and he used to say that he
: couldn't always eat everything that she made. If she made tacos, he could
: eat one.

This is often how the problems that lead to amputation in diabetics get
started. It is that issue of slow or poor wound healing and dontrolling
infection. Somthinglike, object dropped on foot, step on object and don't
feel it, rub off skin, etc. happens and it starts an infection which
spreads and can't be controlled and leads to gangrene and often
amputation. why do you think you are told not to wlak barefoot? It is
part of the prevention of infectionto amputation problem. No, not every
poorly controlled diabetic has an amputation, but a high percentage of
amputaions(aside form terrible war injuries) are the result of diabtic
people beign unable to deal with foot and leg injuries that mean little or
nothing for non-diabetics.

Why do you think there is alwasy such emphasis on foot care for diabetics
in literature and in advice given. Yu have alwasy said that no one ws
allowed to go barefoot in your house as a child, so that could well have
helped your reletives with diabetes even when they had high bgs.

Wendy

"W. Baker" > wrote in message
...
> Julie Bove > wrote:
> : >> There was an amputee named Guy who used to post here. He claims his
> : >> problem
> : >> started with a fungal infection. Not from eating carbs.
> : >
> : > The individual I spoke of dropped something of his foot. Two
> : > weeks apart on each foot. Got infected. Went into gangerine.
> : > It started with carbs. Guy probably had neuropathy. And
> : > that indeed started with too many carbs.
>
> : No. It didn't start with carbs. It started when he dropped something
> on
> : his feet and then there was the infection. We do not know from there if
> he
> : treated the infection properly. I do not know if Guy had neuropathy or
> not
> : but I do know that he didn't eat a lot of carbs. And he was a type 1!
> He
> : was posting here long before I came here so I only know what he posted
> after
> : I came here. I believe that his wife was Latino and he used to say that
> he
> : couldn't always eat everything that she made. If she made tacos, he
> could
> : eat one.
>
> This is often how the problems that lead to amputation in diabetics get
> started. It is that issue of slow or poor wound healing and dontrolling
> infection. Somthinglike, object dropped on foot, step on object and don't
> feel it, rub off skin, etc. happens and it starts an infection which
> spreads and can't be controlled and leads to gangrene and often
> amputation. why do you think you are told not to wlak barefoot? It is
> part of the prevention of infectionto amputation problem. No, not every
> poorly controlled diabetic has an amputation, but a high percentage of
> amputaions(aside form terrible war injuries) are the result of diabtic
> people beign unable to deal with foot and leg injuries that mean little or
> nothing for non-diabetics.
>
> Why do you think there is alwasy such emphasis on foot care for diabetics
> in literature and in advice given. Yu have alwasy said that no one ws
> allowed to go barefoot in your house as a child, so that could well have
> helped your reletives with diabetes even when they had high bgs.

Those relatives didn't live in my house and I don't know if they went
barefoot or not!

Julie Bove > wrote:

: "W. Baker" > wrote in message
: ...
: > Julie Bove > wrote:
: > : >> There was an amputee named Guy who used to post here. He claims his
: > : >> problem
: > : >> started with a fungal infection. Not from eating carbs.
: > : >
: > : > The individual I spoke of dropped something of his foot. Two
: > : > weeks apart on each foot. Got infected. Went into gangerine.
: > : > It started with carbs. Guy probably had neuropathy. And
: > : > that indeed started with too many carbs.
: >
: > : No. It didn't start with carbs. It started when he dropped something
: > on
: > : his feet and then there was the infection. We do not know from there if
: > he
: > : treated the infection properly. I do not know if Guy had neuropathy or
: > not
: > : but I do know that he didn't eat a lot of carbs. And he was a type 1!
: > He
: > : was posting here long before I came here so I only know what he posted
: > after
: > : I came here. I believe that his wife was Latino and he used to say that
: > he
: > : couldn't always eat everything that she made. If she made tacos, he
: > could
: > : eat one.
: >
: > This is often how the problems that lead to amputation in diabetics get
: > started. It is that issue of slow or poor wound healing and dontrolling
: > infection. Somthinglike, object dropped on foot, step on object and don't
: > feel it, rub off skin, etc. happens and it starts an infection which
: > spreads and can't be controlled and leads to gangrene and often
: > amputation. why do you think you are told not to wlak barefoot? It is
: > part of the prevention of infectionto amputation problem. No, not every
: > poorly controlled diabetic has an amputation, but a high percentage of
: > amputaions(aside form terrible war injuries) are the result of diabtic
: > people beign unable to deal with foot and leg injuries that mean little or
: > nothing for non-diabetics.
: >
: > Why do you think there is alwasy such emphasis on foot care for diabetics
: > in literature and in advice given. Yu have alwasy said that no one ws
: > allowed to go barefoot in your house as a child, so that could well have
: > helped your reletives with diabetes even when they had high bgs.

: Those relatives didn't live in my house and I don't know if they went
: barefoot or not!
You don't go barefoot and so are watching your feet. Just be careful not
to drop anything heavy onto your foot. I also know a diabetic man, a
custodian, who lost not only a foot, but part of a leg from havign a heavy
object dro on his foot and the subsequent, diabetes exaceerbated infection
led to the usual pattern of gangrene and amutation. It is one of the
hazards of uncontrolled diabetes,

I assume that your father and our brother, who you referenced did live in
your house when you were growing up and got the no barefoot word from your
mother. As to your other reletives, kI don't know them so I guess I don't
really care.

Wendy

"W. Baker" > wrote in message
...
> Julie Bove > wrote:
>
> : "W. Baker" > wrote in message
> : ...
> : > Julie Bove > wrote:
> : > : >> There was an amputee named Guy who used to post here. He claims
> his
> : > : >> problem
> : > : >> started with a fungal infection. Not from eating carbs.
> : > : >
> : > : > The individual I spoke of dropped something of his foot. Two
> : > : > weeks apart on each foot. Got infected. Went into gangerine.
> : > : > It started with carbs. Guy probably had neuropathy. And
> : > : > that indeed started with too many carbs.
> : >
> : > : No. It didn't start with carbs. It started when he dropped
> something
> : > on
> : > : his feet and then there was the infection. We do not know from
> there if
> : > he
> : > : treated the infection properly. I do not know if Guy had neuropathy
> or
> : > not
> : > : but I do know that he didn't eat a lot of carbs. And he was a type
> 1!
> : > He
> : > : was posting here long before I came here so I only know what he
> posted
> : > after
> : > : I came here. I believe that his wife was Latino and he used to say
> that
> : > he
> : > : couldn't always eat everything that she made. If she made tacos, he
> : > could
> : > : eat one.
> : >
> : > This is often how the problems that lead to amputation in diabetics
> get
> : > started. It is that issue of slow or poor wound healing and
> dontrolling
> : > infection. Somthinglike, object dropped on foot, step on object and
> don't
> : > feel it, rub off skin, etc. happens and it starts an infection which
> : > spreads and can't be controlled and leads to gangrene and often
> : > amputation. why do you think you are told not to wlak barefoot? It
> is
> : > part of the prevention of infectionto amputation problem. No, not
> every
> : > poorly controlled diabetic has an amputation, but a high percentage of
> : > amputaions(aside form terrible war injuries) are the result of diabtic
> : > people beign unable to deal with foot and leg injuries that mean
> little or
> : > nothing for non-diabetics.
> : >
> : > Why do you think there is alwasy such emphasis on foot care for
> diabetics
> : > in literature and in advice given. Yu have alwasy said that no one
> ws
> : > allowed to go barefoot in your house as a child, so that could well
> have
> : > helped your reletives with diabetes even when they had high bgs.
>
> : Those relatives didn't live in my house and I don't know if they went
> : barefoot or not!
> You don't go barefoot and so are watching your feet. Just be careful not
> to drop anything heavy onto your foot. I also know a diabetic man, a
> custodian, who lost not only a foot, but part of a leg from havign a heavy
> object dro on his foot and the subsequent, diabetes exaceerbated infection
> led to the usual pattern of gangrene and amutation. It is one of the
> hazards of uncontrolled diabetes,
>
> I assume that your father and our brother, who you referenced did live in
> your house when you were growing up and got the no barefoot word from your
> mother. As to your other reletives, kI don't know them so I guess I don't
> really care.

They did but I was not talking about them. I have been diabetic longer than
them. I was talking of aunts, uncles, and great uncles. And you certainly
have been nasty to me lately!

On 02/03/2013 09:55 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>> You didn't get this lecture?
> Nobody gave me any lecture whatever. Ever. Why would they? I'm an adult.
> Most people don't lecture other adults and that technique isn't even really
> effective with kids.

Hi Julie,

Interesting how a ill chosen word can have different
meaning to different people.

When I said "lecture", I meant the first meaning [1]:

1. a speech read or delivered before an audience
or class, especially for instruction or to set
forth some subject: a lecture on Picasso's
paintings.

But you heard the second meaning [1]:

2. a speech of warning or reproof as to conduct;
a long, tedious reprimand.

Fascinating.

-T

1) http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/lecture?s=t

On 02/03/2013 09:55 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
> I think you have said a*lot* of incorrect information and I just did point
> it out to you. It's not that you're rude but it's the way that you are
> stating things. As though they are facts. And they're not. They're based
> on something people have told you or what you have read.

Hi Julie,

Okay, now I understand. In my own defense, I "presumed"
that I was talking to like minded people. I did not
reference what I said, as I though it would be like
referencing the ocean was full of water to a bunch of
sailors. I was making friendly conversation. I did not
realize there would be such a difference of opinion.

In the future, if I ever raise the subject again, I
will be sure to reference what I say. I am here
for the diabetic cooking and friendship anyway.
Not to argue.

-T

On 02/03/2013 01:57 AM, Julie Bove wrote:
> Carbs and sugar are not the same thing.

Hi Julie,

For diabetics they are. If you would like, I
can explain the chemistry to you. I am an engineer
and have a nice background in chemistry. Probably
be able to get it in a couple of paragraphs. *PROVIDED,*
we stay friends.

-T