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Julie Bove[_2_] Julie Bove[_2_] is offline
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Default Let's talk pickles!


"Todd" > wrote in message
...
> On 02/03/2013 02:09 AM, Julie Bove wrote:
>>> i Cheri,
>>> >
>>> > He told me he just wouldn't put up with the restrictions. He
>>> >said he moved to insulin so he could eat whatever he wants. The
>>> >addiction thing makes sense. It also may be one of those "different
>>> >strokes for different folks" things. Freedom is an awesome thing.
>>> >

>> People who are on insulin can NOT eat whatever they want and I really
>> wish
>> you would quit saying that.

>
> Hi Julie,
>
> I agree with you completely. Insulin uses don't get a free ride
> to eat whatever they want.
>
>> Your posts here are soo full of misinformation
>> that they are ticking me right off. I would just kill file you but I
>> fear
>> that what you are saying is potentially dangerous information to a
>> newcomer
>> and/or someone who doesn't know any better.

>
> I am agreeing with you. Why are you getting ****ed at me? Even if
> we did not agree, have I been rude or ungentlemanly in any way?
>
>>
>> You have mentioned these "restrictions" several times but haven't said
>> what
>> they were. Did someone tell him to eat a specific diet? If so, what was
>> it?

>
> Yes! Both my ER doctor and my new GP gave me very specific information
> as to what I could and could not eat. It is all over the web too.
> Basically, in a nutshell: nothing refined, carbs and sugar are the
> same thing (blood glucose wise), keep you carbs to 15 per meal,
> and keep your carbs to 60 max per day. I didn't reference this
> as I thought everyone got this lecture. I was even given carb
> reference books. And warned about liars glucose, such as Maltodextrin.
> Also told me I have to exercise.


I am not talking about *you*. I meant this man that you keep referring to.
Not everyone gets this "lecture" and I certainly did not. There is no way I
could eat a diet like that. I do not have a GP handling my diabetes. I see
an Endo. for that. He doesn't give dietary advice. He has us see a
dietician. And I have never heard the term "liars glucose" before.

The dietician I just saw said that she is not there to tell me what to eat
or not to eat and that I seemed to know a lot about nutrition. She did say
that everyone needs 130 grams of carbohydrate per day to keep their brains
functioning properly and if they don't get that much, they could have memory
problems.

That being said, I take *everything* people tell me, no matter who they are
with a big grain of salt. I have been given wrong advice from Drs. and
dieticians before. I'm not trying to say that all Drs. or all dieticians
are bad. Just that everyone can make mistakes.
>
>>
>> My dad, brother and I all take insulin. None of us can ever eat whatever
>> we
>> want or even necessarily*when* we want.

>
> When did I say this? If you could help me here and quote me, it would
> help me improve my writing so as not to be so badly misunderstood.
> You obviously think I said this, so I must have written something
> wrong.


You were talking about this amputee man that you knew. Said he didn't want
the dietary restrictions so he went on insulin so that he could eat whatever
he wanted. Here's the quote. It was even left unsnipped from above.

">>> > He told me he just wouldn't put up with the restrictions. He
>>> >said he moved to insulin so he could eat whatever he wants. The
>>> >addiction thing makes sense. It also may be one of those "different
>>> >strokes for different folks" things. Freedom is an awesome thing."


>
> Giving you the benefit of the doubt that you are not deliberately
> trying to pick a fight, the only thing I can think happened was that
> I was speaking of one specific individual who admitted to me
> he used insulin so he could eat whatever he wanted and did not
> make it clear that I was only talking about one specific individual
> and you thought I was talking about all insulin users.


I am not trying to pick a fight but... I am getting tired of this staunch
anti-carb stance that you have. Whatever you do is fine for you if it works
for you. But you are trying to make it sound like it is what we all do or
what we all should do. That just isn't the case.

You have posted a lot of stuff about this man and I really don't know why.
It's as though you are using this particular man as an example for what is
normal or what would happen if we eat carbs. And I know plenty of diabetics
both online and in my own life. This scenario just doesn't bear out for us.
So if you know something otherwise, some sort of proof about what exactly
happened to this man and exactly why, then I wish you would give a cite for
that.
>
>> Yes, I am eating less carbs than
>> before. My favorite meal used to be a pinto bean burrito with a side of
>> pinto beans and rice! No way could I eat that now. Once in a while I
>> will
>> get a burrito with meat and eat some of the tortilla but those restaurant
>> tortillas are huge and I know that it is too many carbs for me. But I
>> don't
>> eat meat much so I usually eat something else. Today I had black bean
>> soup.
>> BG was fine before and after.

>
> This is very good news! I do miss beans, but not that much.


Well since they are my favorite food, I would certainly miss them if I
couldn't eat them.
>
>>
>>> > And, since I love my feet right where they are, I do have to
>>> >remember not to judge unless one walks first in someone else's
>>> >shoes, or in this case, someone else's prosthetics.

>
>> Please provide a cite that eating carbs cause you to lose a limb.

>
> Okay.
>
> http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/dia...=complications
>
> You didn't get this lecture?


Nobody gave me any lecture whatever. Ever. Why would they? I'm an adult.
Most people don't lecture other adults and that technique isn't even really
effective with kids. I am perfectly aware of what neuropathy is. I have it
in my feet, legs and stomach. Perhaps even my heart. Mine was present upon
diagnosis.

Your link didn't prove a thing! It just said that it "can" cause. Not that
it will. You seem to be taking an all or nothing approach to things and
living in fear. At least that is how you are coming across to me. I could
be wrong on this. I do realize that it is difficult at times to know what
people really mean when they are just typing things out.

You also seem to be assuming that just because some medical professional
told *you* something that the rest of us were told the same thing. And
that's usually not the case at all.

I have that Joslin book about diabetes that comes out every few years or so.
Costs something like $150 and is aimed at Drs. In it, it says that there
are over 300 variants of diabetes. And yet most of us are lumped into
either the type 1 or type 2 categories. And clearly, based on what I have
seen here and on the other diabetes newsgroups, I am not your typical or
standard or average or whatever type 2 diabetic. What seems to apply to
other people in those newsgroups rarely seems to work for me.

But... As I said, I have a brother and dad who are both diabetics. Both
were able to eat a *lot* more carbs than I could and at times this would be
frustrating and annoying to me. But... Without writing a novel on how this
came about, my dad is elderly and now in a home for elderly people. Most of
the "inmates" there are diabetic. They have these people on a very carb
controlled diet. He is now eating not only less carbs than he did before
but less food in total. He has lost some weight, when he needed to do.
They are also testing his BG far more often than he would have done at home.
And because he has memory issues, he is for the most part going along with
this. But he still eats more carbs than you do and now he has much better
BG than he did before. I also have a friend who at times eats more carbs
than I do and claims to have BG that ranges from 70-90 almost all the time.
But... I also know that some of these people do not test at the same times
that I do or as frequently as I sometimes do.

I also know that if I were to get a true indication of how my BG is, then
perhaps I would need that device that they implant into your stomach (or at
least they implant the needle) to test your BG every 5 seconds. I do not
want this to be done but perhaps may need to have it done. I say this
because I am catching hypos followed by huge spikes. So my suspicion is
that I am catching the hypo just as my liver is dumping glucose. But I
guess I will never know unless I do do this because testing every 15 minutes
is not catching it.
>
>
>> If they
>> did, then we'd all not be walking around? Right? Or typing with a pen
>> in
>> our mouth due to lack of arms. I know two diabetics who lost toes. One
>> was
>> a type 1 and the other was type 2. I don't know the particulars of the
>> type
>> 1 but she died soon after. I suspect there were a lot of other medical
>> things I didn't know about. The type 2 was elderly, couldn't understand
>> the
>> diet he was put on which at the time was the Exchange plan and didn't
>> seek
>> medical care when he should have. People where I worked did try to feed
>> him the right diet when he was there but he took some meals elsewhere.
>> And
>> was clearly not in good medical shape besides the diabetes. Not sure his
>> cause of death but the removal of the toes started with an infection.
>> Not
>> from eating carbs.

>
> Eat carbs, up goes blood glucose, neuropathy sets in, loose body
> parts. You did not get this lecture either?


Um... No. Again, nobody gave me a lecture. And if somebody actually told
you that (which I suspect they did not), then they told you something wrong.
And for you to continue say this over and over is wrong! Eating *too many*
carbs for *your* body can cause BG to go up. High BG *can* cause neuropathy
but so can other things. People with certain back injuries can get
neuropathy and so can anorexics. Or bulimics.
>
>> There was an amputee named Guy who used to post here. He claims his
>> problem
>> started with a fungal infection. Not from eating carbs.

>
> The individual I spoke of dropped something of his foot. Two
> weeks apart on each foot. Got infected. Went into gangerine.
> It started with carbs. Guy probably had neuropathy. And
> that indeed started with too many carbs.


No. It didn't start with carbs. It started when he dropped something on
his feet and then there was the infection. We do not know from there if he
treated the infection properly. I do not know if Guy had neuropathy or not
but I do know that he didn't eat a lot of carbs. And he was a type 1! He
was posting here long before I came here so I only know what he posted after
I came here. I believe that his wife was Latino and he used to say that he
couldn't always eat everything that she made. If she made tacos, he could
eat one.

I have several diabetics in my family. They've had diabetes for a lot
longer than I have. My husband's uncle was a diabetic. All of them ate
carbs. In limited amounts. None of them had neuropathy. None of my
friends who are diabetic have neuropathy. AFAIK, my brother does not have
it. My dad *does* have it but it was hard to get him to the point of
diagnosis because he has sooo many other medical problems that caused
similar symptoms. I suspected the neuropathy but was ignored about what I
said for many years because my parents are such that they place firm belief
in anything the Dr. says. They rarely ask questions or seek out a new
diagnosis. Sadly a lot of elderly people are that way. They are also of
the mindset that pills are wonderful things and if the Dr. will give them
some, that's great! And that they don't have to do much else besides taking
those pills. But there are a lot of people who think like that too, elderly
or not. I am not one of them.

My dad's diabetes came about following a terrible attack of pancreatitis and
also gall bladder problems which are often related. I don't know that
people who have these probems *always* wind up with diabetes but he was told
that he might. He was told to monitor his BG and follow his diet that was
given to him by the dietician but he did not. Had he done this, he may or
may not have staved off the diabetes. I do not know.

I was told that since I had gestational diabetes, I was more likely to get
type 2. So was my SIL and her sister, both of whom are like a size 0 if
that. In other words, little bitty things. Not typical type 2 diabetics.
SIL did not get diabetes. Her sister did. Her sister's diabetes progressed
very quickly and she is now on insulin. I can't speak for her sister's diet
having only seen her a few tims in my life. SIL does not eat low carb. Nor
does she eat high carb. Or a lot of food in general. She eats very tiny
meals. And she exercises a lot. She is also a nurse who knows a lot about
diabetes. But she had the GD with two of her pregnancies and it worsened
each time. I think she was on insulin with the last child. But I could be
wrong about that. In fact I know quite a few women who had GD. And not all
of them got type 2.
>
>
>>> >
>>> > I am also very blessed by a wife that got so angry that
>>> >the food I was eating did this to me, that she insists that
>>> >we both are on the same diet. I have the greatest family
>>> >support anyone could ask for. She is a delicate, sweet,
>>> >famine thing that turns into a fierce mama bear when one
>>> >of her loved ones is in danger. I am very blessed.

>
>> The food that you ate did not give you diabetes. More misinformation.

>
> I do believe it did. Both my ER doctor and my new GP said
> I burn myself out. Humans were designed to be hunter
> gathers, not carb eaters. There are references all over
> the web to this.


And there are just as many references to things like Ornish. Doesn't make
any of them right. You can believe what you want. But just like as with
religion, your saying it to us doesn't make it true. I know you are a
religious person. I don't believe in God. And there is nothing *you* could
say to me and no reference you could give me that would change my mind about
this. Just as there is no way I would ever go back to trying to eat like
you do. We "used" to be hunter gatherers. We're not now. Food history is
a hobby of mine. There are a lot of things we didn't know about nutrition
in the old days. And a lot of things that we instinctively knew that do
baffle me now. Like how did people know to eat lime (the mineral) with corn
to make the nutrients more bioavailable?
>
>> I
>> don't think you are blessed if your wife is in famine.

>
> Funny typo. That should have been "feminine". She is
> the sweetest, prettiest thing on the face of this earth.
> Also, the smartest person I know (165+ IQ). I am truly
> blessed.


Okay.
>
>>> >-T
>>> >
>>> >It has been said about the western diet that we are consuming
>>> >vast quantities of food like substances and starving at the
>>> >same time because of it.

>
>> Said who?

>
> If you have Netflix/Roku, take a watch at a documentary called
> "Hungry for Change". There are other references too.
>
> Here is another good reference:
> http://www.marksdailyapple.com
> http://www.marksdailyapple.com/the-p...ate-continuum/
> http://www.marksdailyapple.com/diabetes/
>


No thanks. You already gave me that daily apple link. I am not into that
stuff and I don't think he's anyu expert. I don't have Netflix and don't
know what Roku is. I also don't like watching documentaries unless they are
of interest to me. That certainly wouldn't be because it most likely isn't
true. I have read countless books on nutrition. I do usually find some
tidbits of useful and probably true information in each. But there has been
no one person who I think has it all right. I don't think there ever could
be. Because we keep discovering new information all of the time.

>> Oh I probably don't want to know. You very much remind me of a
>> former poster here. He left. Got annoyed with us I guess. Because we
>> weren't buying what he said.

>
> Julie, if you think I have said something offensive or incorrect,
> just tell me so. Don't get ****ed. I am a nice guy. We
> can work things out.


I think you have said a *lot* of incorrect information and I just did point
it out to you. It's not that you're rude but it's the way that you are
stating things. As though they are facts. And they're not. They're based
on something people have told you or what you have read.

To me, a fact would be something like that there is vitamin C in tomatoes,
and peppers and citrus fruits. We can prove this because this is something
that can be measured. And yes, I suppose another fact would be that even
among oranges, the amount of vitamin C in each one can vary. Perhaps due to
climate, the soil it was grown in, the fertilizer that was used, the amount
of water it was given while growing, etc.

But to say something simplistic like that carbs cause us to have things
amputated is like putting 2 and 2 together and getting 5. Not that I don't
frequently do that myself. Cuz I do!
>
> Bon appetit!
>
> -T
>