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Old 11-05-2004, 04:49 PM
ipse dixit
 
Posts: n/a
Default natural predators & a natural life is cruel? "Yes" - according to usual suspect

Here are "usual suspect's" quotes that Jonathan desperately
wants the reader to forget about (below).

[start Mmhsb]
natural predators & a natural life is cruel?

[usual suspect]
Yes. Watch the Discovery Channel sometime.
usual suspect http://tinyurl.com/2c9ac

and

"Ever seen what happens to various ruminants as they're
stalked and hunted by large cats? Slaughterhouses may
be messy, but they're not cruel."
Usual Suspect http://tinyurl.com/yu6eq

and

"Suffering results for all animals whether they're
eaten by humans or other animals. Indeed, many
other predators are less humane than humans."
usual suspect http://tinyurl.com/2ba7f

It's clear from those quotes that "usual suspect" believes
natural predation is cruel while human predation isn't, but
both he and Jonathan Ball are doing their level best between
themselves to stop the readers on these animal related
groups getting to read them.

They have lied, edited my posts, changed the newsgroup
titles to make replying to them awkward, and just about
anything they can think of. What a pair of liars, eh?

  #2 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 11-05-2004, 05:11 PM
Rubystars
 
Posts: n/a
Default natural predators & a natural life is cruel? "Yes" - according to usual suspect


"ipse dixit" wrote in message
...
Here are "usual suspect's" quotes that Jonathan desperately
wants the reader to forget about (below).

[start Mmhsb]
natural predators & a natural life is cruel?

[usual suspect]
Yes. Watch the Discovery Channel sometime.
usual suspect http://tinyurl.com/2c9ac

and

"Ever seen what happens to various ruminants as they're
stalked and hunted by large cats? Slaughterhouses may
be messy, but they're not cruel."
Usual Suspect http://tinyurl.com/yu6eq

and

"Suffering results for all animals whether they're
eaten by humans or other animals. Indeed, many
other predators are less humane than humans."
usual suspect http://tinyurl.com/2ba7f

It's clear from those quotes that "usual suspect" believes
natural predation is cruel while human predation isn't, but
both he and Jonathan Ball are doing their level best between
themselves to stop the readers on these animal related
groups getting to read them.

They have lied, edited my posts, changed the newsgroup
titles to make replying to them awkward, and just about
anything they can think of. What a pair of liars, eh?



I agree that when natural predation happens, the animal isn't being
consciously cruel, but the animal who is killed does suffer, and that fact
can't be diminished. There's no moral significance to this because the
predator isnt making any kind of "decision" to do this, just following
instincts.

Human actions have moral significance because we can choose what to do. With
that said, the fact that we provide slaughter that is often more humane than
a death by predation in the wild would be, is a significant point to be
made. After all, humans could attack a cow with spears or we could use
humane slaughter methods including stunning.

-Rubystars


  #3 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 11-05-2004, 05:17 PM
Dutch
 
Posts: n/a
Default natural predators & a natural life is cruel? "Yes" - according to usual suspect

Are you still ranting on about this? I thought you'd have had the sense to
drop it by now..


  #4 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 11-05-2004, 05:23 PM
Dutch
 
Posts: n/a
Default natural predators & a natural life is cruel? "Yes" - according to usual suspect

"Rubystars" wrote in message
m...

"ipse dixit" wrote in message
...
Here are "usual suspect's" quotes that Jonathan desperately
wants the reader to forget about (below).

[start Mmhsb]
natural predators & a natural life is cruel?

[usual suspect]
Yes. Watch the Discovery Channel sometime.
usual suspect http://tinyurl.com/2c9ac

and

"Ever seen what happens to various ruminants as they're
stalked and hunted by large cats? Slaughterhouses may
be messy, but they're not cruel."
Usual Suspect http://tinyurl.com/yu6eq

and

"Suffering results for all animals whether they're
eaten by humans or other animals. Indeed, many
other predators are less humane than humans."
usual suspect http://tinyurl.com/2ba7f

It's clear from those quotes that "usual suspect" believes
natural predation is cruel while human predation isn't, but
both he and Jonathan Ball are doing their level best between
themselves to stop the readers on these animal related
groups getting to read them.

They have lied, edited my posts, changed the newsgroup
titles to make replying to them awkward, and just about
anything they can think of. What a pair of liars, eh?



I agree that when natural predation happens, the animal isn't being
consciously cruel, but the animal who is killed does suffer, and that fact
can't be diminished. There's no moral significance to this because the
predator isnt making any kind of "decision" to do this, just following
instincts.

Human actions have moral significance because we can choose what to do.

With
that said, the fact that we provide slaughter that is often more humane

than
a death by predation in the wild would be, is a significant point to be
made. After all, humans could attack a cow with spears or we could use
humane slaughter methods including stunning.


You've got it exactly right. Cruel also means simply causing pain and
suffering, based on that definition, nature is arguably more cruel than
captivity. Nash is equivocating again.


  #5 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 11-05-2004, 05:26 PM
ipse dixit
 
Posts: n/a
Default natural predators & a natural life is cruel? "Yes" - according to usual suspect

On Tue, 11 May 2004 16:11:07 GMT, "Rubystars" wrote:

"ipse dixit" wrote in message
.. .
Here are "usual suspect's" quotes that Jonathan desperately
wants the reader to forget about (below).

[start Mmhsb]
natural predators & a natural life is cruel?

[usual suspect]
Yes. Watch the Discovery Channel sometime.
usual suspect http://tinyurl.com/2c9ac

and

"Ever seen what happens to various ruminants as they're
stalked and hunted by large cats? Slaughterhouses may
be messy, but they're not cruel."
Usual Suspect http://tinyurl.com/yu6eq

and

"Suffering results for all animals whether they're
eaten by humans or other animals. Indeed, many
other predators are less humane than humans."
usual suspect http://tinyurl.com/2ba7f

It's clear from those quotes that "usual suspect" believes
natural predation is cruel while human predation isn't, but
both he and Jonathan Ball are doing their level best between
themselves to stop the readers on these animal related
groups getting to read them.

They have lied, edited my posts, changed the newsgroup
titles to make replying to them awkward, and just about
anything they can think of. What a pair of liars, eh?



I agree that when natural predation happens, the animal isn't being
consciously cruel, but the animal who is killed does suffer, and that fact
can't be diminished. There's no moral significance to this because the
predator isnt making any kind of "decision" to do this, just following
instincts.


Yes, but my point here is that "usual suspect" has openly
lied by trying to wriggle away from his quotes which say
he finds natural predation cruel. Most normal-thinking
people already know that natural predation isn't cruel, but
"usual suspect" made the mistake in claiming it is to head
off any criticisms from those who object to human predation.

Human actions have moral significance because we can choose what to do. With
that said, the fact that we provide slaughter that is often more humane than
a death by predation in the wild would be, is a significant point to be
made. After all, humans could attack a cow with spears or we could use
humane slaughter methods including stunning.

-Rubystars




  #6 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 11-05-2004, 05:30 PM
ipse dixit
 
Posts: n/a
Default natural predators & a natural life is cruel? "Yes" - according to usual suspect AND NOW DUTCH

On Tue, 11 May 2004 09:23:35 -0700, "Dutch" wrote:

"Rubystars" wrote in message m...
"ipse dixit" wrote in message ...

Here are "usual suspect's" quotes that Jonathan desperately
wants the reader to forget about (below).

[start Mmhsb]
natural predators & a natural life is cruel?
[usual suspect]
Yes. Watch the Discovery Channel sometime.
usual suspect http://tinyurl.com/2c9ac

and

"Ever seen what happens to various ruminants as they're
stalked and hunted by large cats? Slaughterhouses may
be messy, but they're not cruel."
Usual Suspect http://tinyurl.com/yu6eq

and

"Suffering results for all animals whether they're
eaten by humans or other animals. Indeed, many
other predators are less humane than humans."
usual suspect http://tinyurl.com/2ba7f

It's clear from those quotes that "usual suspect" believes
natural predation is cruel while human predation isn't, but
both he and Jonathan Ball are doing their level best between
themselves to stop the readers on these animal related
groups getting to read them.

They have lied, edited my posts, changed the newsgroup
titles to make replying to them awkward, and just about
anything they can think of. What a pair of liars, eh?


I agree that when natural predation happens, the animal isn't being
consciously cruel, but the animal who is killed does suffer, and that fact
can't be diminished. There's no moral significance to this because the
predator isnt making any kind of "decision" to do this, just following
instincts.

Human actions have moral significance because we can choose
what to do. With that said, the fact that we provide slaughter
that is often more humane than
a death by predation in the wild would be, is a significant point to be
made. After all, humans could attack a cow with spears or we could use
humane slaughter methods including stunning.


You've got it exactly right. Cruel also means simply causing pain and
suffering, based on that definition, nature is arguably more cruel than
captivity.


PERFECT! Thanks for offering your stupidity to this, Dutch.
  #7 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 11-05-2004, 05:32 PM
ipse dixit
 
Posts: n/a
Default natural predators & a natural life is cruel? "Yes" - according to usual suspect, and now Dutch as well

On Tue, 11 May 2004 09:17:33 -0700, "Dutch" wrote:

Are you still ranting on about this? I thought you'd have had the sense to
drop it by now..

Tell me why natural predation is cruel, Dutch.
  #8 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 11-05-2004, 05:38 PM
ipse dixit
 
Posts: n/a
Default natural predators & a natural life is cruel? "Yes" - according to Usual Suspect and Dutch etc.

On Tue, 11 May 2004 16:28:32 GMT, Jonathan Ball wrote:

ipse dixit wrote:
Here are "usual suspect's" quotes that Jonathan desperately
wants the reader to forget about


You're lying


Yet again you've shown your worthlessness by changing
the newsgroup titles and snipping away the evidence that
proves "usual suspect" believes natural predation is cruel.

unsnip
Here are "usual suspect's" quotes that Jonathan desperately
wants the reader to forget about (below).

[start Mmhsb]
natural predators & a natural life is cruel?

[usual suspect]
Yes. Watch the Discovery Channel sometime.
usual suspect http://tinyurl.com/2c9ac

and

"Ever seen what happens to various ruminants as they're
stalked and hunted by large cats? Slaughterhouses may
be messy, but they're not cruel."
Usual Suspect http://tinyurl.com/yu6eq

and

"Suffering results for all animals whether they're
eaten by humans or other animals. Indeed, many
other predators are less humane than humans."
usual suspect http://tinyurl.com/2ba7f

It's clear from those quotes that "usual suspect" believes
natural predation is cruel while human predation isn't, but
both he and Jonathan Ball are doing their level best between
themselves to stop the readers on these animal related
groups from getting to read them.

They have lied, edited my posts, changed the newsgroup
titles to make replying to them awkward, and just about
anything they can think of. What a pair of liars, eh?
endsnip

  #9 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 11-05-2004, 05:44 PM
usual suspect
 
Posts: n/a
Default illogic of the lard ass: dreck can't stop shit-stirring

ipse dixit wrote:
Here are "usual suspect's" quotes that


....Dreck keeps taking out of context so he can stir shit.

...
[start Mmhsb]
natural predators & a natural life is cruel?

[usual suspect]
Yes. Watch the Discovery Channel sometime.
usual suspect http://tinyurl.com/2c9ac


That's sarcasm, Dreck. Consider elsewhere in the same thread when I wrote:
I'm not taking Harrison's position in this. I'm only going as far as
saying that slaughterhouses aren't the only "travesty" animals face. I'm
all for lions stalking and hunting -- makes for good tv on Discovery and
National Geographic.

And:
Unlike misanthropes like you and your little hare-brained friend Lesley,
I accept the role we and other animals play in nature. Ruminants are
food -- whether for our species or others. That's their main purpose in
an ecosystem: to convert plant matter into protein and to be eaten.

And (to you, fatso):
You should careful lest you start agreeing again with your buddy Lotus,
whose anthropomorphisms range from the mildly amusing to the doubled
over in near-fatal laughter, and engaging in anthropomorphic projections
yourself:
I myself give these rights to any animal in
my presence. Why can I not feel aggressive
toward anyone who flouts these rights?
http://tinyurl.com/gkcj

and

"Ever seen what happens to various ruminants as they're
stalked and hunted by large cats? Slaughterhouses may
be messy, but they're not cruel."
Usual Suspect http://tinyurl.com/yu6eq


Nothing in that even implies that I think either slaughterhouses or large cats
are cruel.

and

"Suffering results for all animals whether they're
eaten by humans or other animals. Indeed, many
other predators are less humane than humans."
usual suspect http://tinyurl.com/2ba7f

It's clear from those quotes that


....Dreck likes to stir up shit.

snip of patent lies

  #10 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 11-05-2004, 05:49 PM
Jonathan Ball
 
Posts: n/a
Default illogic of the lard ass: dreck can't stop shit-stirring

The title alone is worth a case of Sierra Nevada Pale
Ale; just tell me where to send it.



  #11 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 11-05-2004, 05:52 PM
Rubystars
 
Posts: n/a
Default natural predators & a natural life is cruel? "Yes" - according to usual suspect


"ipse dixit" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 11 May 2004 16:11:07 GMT, "Rubystars"

wrote:

"ipse dixit" wrote in message
.. .
Here are "usual suspect's" quotes that Jonathan desperately
wants the reader to forget about (below).

[start Mmhsb]
natural predators & a natural life is cruel?
[usual suspect]
Yes. Watch the Discovery Channel sometime.
usual suspect http://tinyurl.com/2c9ac

and

"Ever seen what happens to various ruminants as they're
stalked and hunted by large cats? Slaughterhouses may
be messy, but they're not cruel."
Usual Suspect http://tinyurl.com/yu6eq

and

"Suffering results for all animals whether they're
eaten by humans or other animals. Indeed, many
other predators are less humane than humans."
usual suspect http://tinyurl.com/2ba7f

It's clear from those quotes that "usual suspect" believes
natural predation is cruel while human predation isn't, but
both he and Jonathan Ball are doing their level best between
themselves to stop the readers on these animal related
groups getting to read them.

They have lied, edited my posts, changed the newsgroup
titles to make replying to them awkward, and just about
anything they can think of. What a pair of liars, eh?



I agree that when natural predation happens, the animal isn't being
consciously cruel, but the animal who is killed does suffer, and that

fact
can't be diminished. There's no moral significance to this because the
predator isnt making any kind of "decision" to do this, just following
instincts.


Yes, but my point here is that "usual suspect" has openly
lied by trying to wriggle away from his quotes which say
he finds natural predation cruel. Most normal-thinking
people already know that natural predation isn't cruel, but
"usual suspect" made the mistake in claiming it is to head
off any criticisms from those who object to human predation.


I think the point is that the suffering experienced from natural predation
is often greater than the suffering experienced from humane slaughter
methods.

-Rubystars


  #12 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 11-05-2004, 06:52 PM
Ray
 
Posts: n/a
Default illogic of the lard ass: dreck can't stop shit-stirring


"Jonathan Ball" wrote in message
ink.net...
The title alone is worth a case of Sierra Nevada Pale
Ale; just tell me where to send it.


Straight into the **** pot ~~jonnie~~, the best place for 'Chemical' beer.



  #13 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 11-05-2004, 06:53 PM
ipse dixit
 
Posts: n/a
Default natural predators & a natural life is cruel? "Yes" - according to usual suspect AND NOW DUTCH

On Tue, 11 May 2004 17:30:28 +0100, ipse dixit wrote:

On Tue, 11 May 2004 09:23:35 -0700, "Dutch" wrote:

"Rubystars" wrote in message m...
"ipse dixit" wrote in message ...

Here are "usual suspect's" quotes that Jonathan desperately
wants the reader to forget about (below).

[start Mmhsb]
natural predators & a natural life is cruel?
[usual suspect]
Yes. Watch the Discovery Channel sometime.
usual suspect http://tinyurl.com/2c9ac

and

"Ever seen what happens to various ruminants as they're
stalked and hunted by large cats? Slaughterhouses may
be messy, but they're not cruel."
Usual Suspect http://tinyurl.com/yu6eq

and

"Suffering results for all animals whether they're
eaten by humans or other animals. Indeed, many
other predators are less humane than humans."
usual suspect http://tinyurl.com/2ba7f

It's clear from those quotes that "usual suspect" believes
natural predation is cruel while human predation isn't, but
both he and Jonathan Ball are doing their level best between
themselves to stop the readers on these animal related
groups getting to read them.

They have lied, edited my posts, changed the newsgroup
titles to make replying to them awkward, and just about
anything they can think of. What a pair of liars, eh?

I agree that when natural predation happens, the animal isn't being
consciously cruel, but the animal who is killed does suffer, and that fact
can't be diminished. There's no moral significance to this because the
predator isnt making any kind of "decision" to do this, just following
instincts.

Human actions have moral significance because we can choose
what to do. With that said, the fact that we provide slaughter
that is often more humane than
a death by predation in the wild would be, is a significant point to be
made. After all, humans could attack a cow with spears or we could use
humane slaughter methods including stunning.


You've got it exactly right. Cruel also means simply causing pain and
suffering, based on that definition, nature is arguably more cruel than
captivity.


PERFECT! Thanks for offering your stupidity to this, Dutch.


I JUST CAN'T STOP LAUGHING AT THIS. Dutch - what
the heck did you do that for - and at a time like this, too! Jeeze!
Well done though ;-) I can always rely on you.
  #14 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 11-05-2004, 07:17 PM
ipse dixit
 
Posts: n/a
Default natural predators & a natural life is cruel? "Yes" - according to usual suspect AND NOW DUTCH

On Tue, 11 May 2004 18:05:36 GMT, Jonathan Ball wrote:

After all, humans could attack a cow with spears or we could use
humane slaughter methods including stunning.

You've got it exactly right. Cruel also means simply causing pain and
suffering, based on that definition, nature is arguably more cruel than
captivity.

PERFECT! Thanks for offering your stupidity to this, Dutch.



I JUST CAN'T STOP LAUGHING AT Dutch's COLOSSAL STUPIDITY!


Well, suit yourself, prick-cheese.


That timing was a peach. Admit it; you laughed your
****ing head off. The perfect close to a long day.
See you tomorrow, Jon.
  #15 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 11-05-2004, 07:24 PM
Dutch
 
Posts: n/a
Default natural predators & a natural life is cruel? "Yes" - according to usual suspect


"ipse dixit" wrote

Most normal-thinking
people already know that natural predation isn't cruel


Ipse dixit, most people think that nature *is* cruel, not just predation,
but animals starving, drowning, or freezing to death.




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