On Tue, 11 May 2004 16:11:07 GMT, "Rubystars" > wrote:

>"ipse dixit" > wrote in message
.. .
>> Here are "usual suspect's" quotes that Jonathan desperately
>> wants the reader to forget about (below).
>>
>> [start Mmhsb]
>> > natural predators & a natural life is cruel?
>> [usual suspect]
>> Yes. Watch the Discovery Channel sometime.
>> usual suspect http://tinyurl.com/2c9ac
>>
>> and
>>
>> "Ever seen what happens to various ruminants as they're
>> stalked and hunted by large cats? Slaughterhouses may
>> be messy, but they're not cruel."
>> Usual Suspect http://tinyurl.com/yu6eq
>>
>> and
>>
>> "Suffering results for all animals whether they're
>> eaten by humans or other animals. Indeed, many
>> other predators are less humane than humans."
>> usual suspect http://tinyurl.com/2ba7f
>>
>> It's clear from those quotes that "usual suspect" believes
>> natural predation is cruel while human predation isn't, but
>> both he and Jonathan Ball are doing their level best between
>> themselves to stop the readers on these animal related
>> groups getting to read them.
>>
>> They have lied, edited my posts, changed the newsgroup
>> titles to make replying to them awkward, and just about
>> anything they can think of. What a pair of liars, eh?
>
>
>I agree that when natural predation happens, the animal isn't being
>consciously cruel, but the animal who is killed does suffer, and that fact
>can't be diminished. There's no moral significance to this because the
>predator isnt making any kind of "decision" to do this, just following
>instincts.

Yes, but my point here is that "usual suspect" has openly
lied by trying to wriggle away from his quotes which say
he finds natural predation cruel. Most normal-thinking
people already know that natural predation isn't cruel, but
"usual suspect" made the mistake in claiming it is to head
off any criticisms from those who object to human predation.

>Human actions have moral significance because we can choose what to do. With
>that said, the fact that we provide slaughter that is often more humane than
>a death by predation in the wild would be, is a significant point to be
>made. After all, humans could attack a cow with spears or we could use
>humane slaughter methods including stunning.
>
>-Rubystars
>