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  #47 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 03-03-2004, 03:40 AM
Peggy Sullivan
 
Posts: n/a
Default Good Peanut Butter vs. Bad Peanut Butter

Leila A. wrote:

The other week hubby bought peanut butter at the Stupidmarket, rather
than at the natural foods place I go to that grinds it fresh. After
the kids had been eating it for a day or two I thought to check the
label. The rule of thumb is, subtract Saturated Fats from Total Fats
on the label to get the trans fats (although wouldn't the
polyunsaturated fats that are fine also be in there?). The peanut
butter said something like 16 g per serving fat, 3 g. saturated fat,
so that left 13 grams PER SERVING of unsaturated fats, many of which
are hydrogenated.

I threw the jar out.

[snip]

Leila
(ducking for cover)


I'm wondering about your calculations. I don't think that
total fats - saturated fats is equal to trans fats. I think the
peanut oil in the peanuts is unsaturated and makes up almost all
of the total fat - saturated fat number you computed.

The Skippy web page: http://www.peanutbutter.com/faq.asp
referenced previously in this thread states:

"Does Skippy peanut butter contain trans fats?
By U.S. FDA definition, Skippy peanut butter is a trans-fat free food.

Most commercial peanut butters contain small amounts (typically less than
2%) of a partially hydrogenated fat, which prevents oil separation by
helping the peanut butter "set up" a fat structure. This partially
hydrogenated fat is almost totally saturated and contains only an
insignificant trace amount of trans fats. "

I looked for the US FDA definition of trans-fat free and found a page
about the proposed trans fat labeling rules:
http://vm.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/qatrans2.html
which states in part:

"Q: Is it possible for a food product to list the amount of trans fat as
0 g on the Nutrition Facts panel if the ingredient list indicates that
it contains "partially hydrogenated vegetable oil?

A: Yes. Food manufacturers are allowed to list amounts of trans fat with
less than 0.5 gram (1/2 g) as 0 (zero) on the Nutrition Facts panel. As
a result, consumers may see a few products that list 0 gram trans fat on
the label, while the ingredient list will have "shortening," "partially
hydrogenated vegetable oil," or "hydrogenated vegetable oil" on it. This
means the food contains very small amounts (less than 0.5 g) of trans fat
per serving."

So my guess is that Skippy has less than 1/2 g of trans fat per serving.
I can't believe other big brand name peanut butters are that different.

It might be good to avoid even small amounts, but I think that your idea
that each serving of your peanut butter contained many grams of trans fats
is way off. I think commercial cookies, crackers, donuts, fried foods and
margarines are all much more significant sources of trans fats than peanut
butter in the average american diet.

Peggy
  #48 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 03-03-2004, 03:53 AM
zxcvbob
 
Posts: n/a
Default Good Peanut Butter vs. Bad Peanut Butter

Peggy Sullivan wrote:

Leila A. wrote:

The other week hubby bought peanut butter at the Stupidmarket, rather
than at the natural foods place I go to that grinds it fresh. After
the kids had been eating it for a day or two I thought to check the
label. The rule of thumb is, subtract Saturated Fats from Total Fats
on the label to get the trans fats (although wouldn't the
polyunsaturated fats that are fine also be in there?). The peanut
butter said something like 16 g per serving fat, 3 g. saturated fat,
so that left 13 grams PER SERVING of unsaturated fats, many of which
are hydrogenated.

I threw the jar out.

[snip]


Leila
(ducking for cover)



I'm wondering about your calculations. I don't think that
total fats - saturated fats is equal to trans fats. I think the
peanut oil in the peanuts is unsaturated and makes up almost all
of the total fat - saturated fat number you computed.

The Skippy web page: http://www.peanutbutter.com/faq.asp
referenced previously in this thread states:

"Does Skippy peanut butter contain trans fats?
By U.S. FDA definition, Skippy peanut butter is a trans-fat free food.

Most commercial peanut butters contain small amounts (typically less than
2%) of a partially hydrogenated fat, which prevents oil separation by
helping the peanut butter "set up" a fat structure. This partially
hydrogenated fat is almost totally saturated and contains only an
insignificant trace amount of trans fats. "

I looked for the US FDA definition of trans-fat free and found a page
about the proposed trans fat labeling rules:
http://vm.cfsan.fda.gov/~dms/qatrans2.html
which states in part:

"Q: Is it possible for a food product to list the amount of trans fat as
0 g on the Nutrition Facts panel if the ingredient list indicates that
it contains "partially hydrogenated vegetable oil?

A: Yes. Food manufacturers are allowed to list amounts of trans fat with
less than 0.5 gram (1/2 g) as 0 (zero) on the Nutrition Facts panel. As
a result, consumers may see a few products that list 0 gram trans fat on
the label, while the ingredient list will have "shortening," "partially
hydrogenated vegetable oil," or "hydrogenated vegetable oil" on it. This
means the food contains very small amounts (less than 0.5 g) of trans
fat
per serving."

So my guess is that Skippy has less than 1/2 g of trans fat per serving.
I can't believe other big brand name peanut butters are that different.

It might be good to avoid even small amounts, but I think that your idea
that each serving of your peanut butter contained many grams of trans fats
is way off. I think commercial cookies, crackers, donuts, fried foods and
margarines are all much more significant sources of trans fats than peanut
butter in the average american diet.

Peggy



Trans- fats are saturated. That's why they are solid. Roughly half of
hydrogenated fat is trans- and the other half is... ummm... "cis-", I
think. Peanut oil contains a little bit of natural saturated fat, all of
which will be "cis-".

So, Skippy probably has about 1 gram of hydrogenated oil per "serving",
half of that is "trans-", or .5 grams. They adjust the serving size down
small enough to stay below the .5 gram limit.

Best regards,
Bob
  #49 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 03-03-2004, 02:00 PM
Curly Sue
 
Posts: n/a
Default Good Peanut Butter vs. Bad Peanut Butter

On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 21:53:04 -0600, zxcvbob
wrote:
snip
Trans- fats are saturated. That's why they are solid. Roughly half of
hydrogenated fat is trans- and the other half is... ummm... "cis-", I
think. Peanut oil contains a little bit of natural saturated fat, all of
which will be "cis-".


trans and cis are both unsaturated. Those terms refer to the
configuration around a carbon to carbon double bond. If the H's (or
functional groups) are on the same side, it's cis. If they are on the
opposite side, it's trans. If the fatty acid is saturated, you can't
have cis or trans. Hydrogenation converts many unsaturated bonds to
saturated configuration and some unsaturated bonds to to the cis
configuration.

Here's a nice explanation, with drawings.

http://www.elmhurst.edu/~chm/vchembo...ogenation.html

So, Skippy probably has about 1 gram of hydrogenated oil per "serving",
half of that is "trans-", or .5 grams. They adjust the serving size down
small enough to stay below the .5 gram limit.


Put away your calculators folks. Someone did the study!

from http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/2001/010612.htm
****************
"Recurring rumors that commercial peanut butters contain trans
fats--which appear to increase risk of cardiovascular disease--have no
basis in fact, according to an Agricultural Research Service study.

The rumors no doubt started because small amounts of hydrogenated
vegetable oils are added to commercial peanut butters--at 1 to 2
percent of total weight--to prevent the peanut oil from separating
out. And the hydrogenation process can generate the formation of trans
fatty acids in oils, according to Timothy H. Sanders, who leads
research at ARSí Market Quality and Handling Research Unit at Raleigh,
N.C.

To see if the rumors had any validity, Sanders prepared 11 brands of
peanut butter, including major store brands and natural brands, for
analysis by a commercial laboratory. He also sent paste freshly
prepared from roasted peanuts for comparison. The laboratory found no
detectable trans fats in any of the samples, with a detection limit of
0.01 percent of the sample weight."
**************************


Sue(tm)
Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!
  #50 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 03-03-2004, 02:32 PM
zxcvbob
 
Posts: n/a
Default Good Peanut Butter vs. Bad Peanut Butter

Curly Sue wrote:

On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 21:53:04 -0600, zxcvbob
wrote:
snip

Trans- fats are saturated. That's why they are solid. Roughly half of
hydrogenated fat is trans- and the other half is... ummm... "cis-", I
think. Peanut oil contains a little bit of natural saturated fat, all of
which will be "cis-".



trans and cis are both unsaturated. Those terms refer to the
configuration around a carbon to carbon double bond. If the H's (or
functional groups) are on the same side, it's cis. If they are on the
opposite side, it's trans. If the fatty acid is saturated, you can't
have cis or trans. Hydrogenation converts many unsaturated bonds to
saturated configuration and some unsaturated bonds to to the cis
configuration.

Here's a nice explanation, with drawings.

http://www.elmhurst.edu/~chm/vchembo...ogenation.html


So, Skippy probably has about 1 gram of hydrogenated oil per "serving",
half of that is "trans-", or .5 grams. They adjust the serving size down
small enough to stay below the .5 gram limit.



Put away your calculators folks. Someone did the study!

from http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/2001/010612.htm
****************
"Recurring rumors that commercial peanut butters contain trans
fats--which appear to increase risk of cardiovascular disease--have no
basis in fact, according to an Agricultural Research Service study.

The rumors no doubt started because small amounts of hydrogenated
vegetable oils are added to commercial peanut butters--at 1 to 2
percent of total weight--to prevent the peanut oil from separating
out. And the hydrogenation process can generate the formation of trans
fatty acids in oils, according to Timothy H. Sanders, who leads
research at ARSí Market Quality and Handling Research Unit at Raleigh,
N.C.

To see if the rumors had any validity, Sanders prepared 11 brands of
peanut butter, including major store brands and natural brands, for
analysis by a commercial laboratory. He also sent paste freshly
prepared from roasted peanuts for comparison. The laboratory found no
detectable trans fats in any of the samples, with a detection limit of
0.01 percent of the sample weight."
**************************


Sue(tm)
Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!


Thanks! When I was explaining it (wrongly) something didn't seem right,
cuz if the fat is completely saturated it will just be a chain of
single-bonds. So trans- fats would just be a problem in *partially*
hydrogenated oils.

I still prefer to grind up roasted salted peanuts without any sugar or
shortening added. Health food store bulk peanut butter doesn't have enough
salt.

Best regards,
Bob


  #51 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 03-03-2004, 03:15 PM
Peggy Sullivan
 
Posts: n/a
Default Good Peanut Butter vs. Bad Peanut Butter

Curly Sue wrote:
[snip]
Put away your calculators folks. Someone did the study!

from http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/2001/010612.htm
****************
"Recurring rumors that commercial peanut butters contain trans
fats--which appear to increase risk of cardiovascular disease--have no
basis in fact, according to an Agricultural Research Service study.

The rumors no doubt started because small amounts of hydrogenated
vegetable oils are added to commercial peanut butters--at 1 to 2
percent of total weight--to prevent the peanut oil from separating
out. And the hydrogenation process can generate the formation of trans
fatty acids in oils, according to Timothy H. Sanders, who leads
research at ARSí Market Quality and Handling Research Unit at Raleigh,
N.C.

To see if the rumors had any validity, Sanders prepared 11 brands of
peanut butter, including major store brands and natural brands, for
analysis by a commercial laboratory. He also sent paste freshly
prepared from roasted peanuts for comparison. The laboratory found no
detectable trans fats in any of the samples, with a detection limit of
0.01 percent of the sample weight."
**************************


Sue(tm)
Lead me not into temptation... I can find it myself!


Thanks Sue! This is just the sort of information I was looking for.
I guess it comes down to taste rather than nutrition.

Peggy
  #52 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 03-03-2004, 03:25 PM
jmk
 
Posts: n/a
Default Good Peanut Butter vs. Bad Peanut Butter

On 3/3/2004 10:15 AM, Peggy Sullivan wrote:

Thanks Sue! This is just the sort of information I was looking for.
I guess it comes down to taste rather than nutrition.

Peggy


I dunno about that. My DH pointed this out to me:

They say that chocolate is heart healthy in moderation.
They say that wine is heart healthy in moderation.
They say that coffee isn't bad for you.
They say eat as little trans fat as humanly possible.

Why not take the wine and coffee and chocolate and skip the trans fat?

--
jmk in NC
  #53 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 03-03-2004, 03:47 PM
Peggy Sullivan
 
Posts: n/a
Default Good Peanut Butter vs. Bad Peanut Butter

jmk wrote:
On 3/3/2004 10:15 AM, Peggy Sullivan wrote:

Thanks Sue! This is just the sort of information I was looking for.
I guess it comes down to taste rather than nutrition.

Peggy



I dunno about that. My DH pointed this out to me:

They say that chocolate is heart healthy in moderation.
They say that wine is heart healthy in moderation.
They say that coffee isn't bad for you.
They say eat as little trans fat as humanly possible.

Why not take the wine and coffee and chocolate and skip the trans fat?


But there do not really seem to be any trans fats to skip, in Curly Sues
post I read:

"The laboratory found no detectable trans fats in any of the samples,
with a detection limit of 0.01 percent of the sample weight."

And reading the full article at the link Curly Sue provided, I found this
elaboration:

"That means that a 32-gram serving of any of the 11 brands could contain
from zero to a little over three-thousandths (0.0032) of a gram of trans
fats without being detected."

And in any case, I'm not sure my kids (who prefer Skippy or Jif to
natural peanut butter) would accept wine or coffee and jelly sandwiches
as a substitute -- although they might like chocolate and jelly ones.

Peggy
  #54 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 03-03-2004, 03:49 PM
jmk
 
Posts: n/a
Default Good Peanut Butter vs. Bad Peanut Butter

On 3/3/2004 10:47 AM, Peggy Sullivan wrote:
jmk wrote:

On 3/3/2004 10:15 AM, Peggy Sullivan wrote:

Thanks Sue! This is just the sort of information I was looking for.
I guess it comes down to taste rather than nutrition.

Peggy




I dunno about that. My DH pointed this out to me:

They say that chocolate is heart healthy in moderation.
They say that wine is heart healthy in moderation.
They say that coffee isn't bad for you.
They say eat as little trans fat as humanly possible.

Why not take the wine and coffee and chocolate and skip the trans fat?


But there do not really seem to be any trans fats to skip, in Curly Sues
post I read:

"The laboratory found no detectable trans fats in any of the samples,
with a detection limit of 0.01 percent of the sample weight."


About one gram per serving (I aske them and I think it as .8 or
something) is not zero, it's still a gram more than is necessary. It's
not as if natural peanut butter is difficult to come by.


--
jmk in NC
  #55 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 03-03-2004, 04:09 PM
Peggy Sullivan
 
Posts: n/a
Default Good Peanut Butter vs. Bad Peanut Butter

jmk wrote:

On 3/3/2004 10:47 AM, Peggy Sullivan wrote:

jmk wrote:

On 3/3/2004 10:15 AM, Peggy Sullivan wrote:

Thanks Sue! This is just the sort of information I was looking for.
I guess it comes down to taste rather than nutrition.

Peggy




I dunno about that. My DH pointed this out to me:

They say that chocolate is heart healthy in moderation.
They say that wine is heart healthy in moderation.
They say that coffee isn't bad for you.
They say eat as little trans fat as humanly possible.

Why not take the wine and coffee and chocolate and skip the trans fat?


But there do not really seem to be any trans fats to skip, in Curly Sues
post I read:

"The laboratory found no detectable trans fats in any of the samples,
with a detection limit of 0.01 percent of the sample weight."



About one gram per serving (I aske them and I think it as .8 or
something) is not zero, it's still a gram more than is necessary. It's
not as if natural peanut butter is difficult to come by.



Who did you ask?

From the information in Sue's post and my post, it is *not* one gram
per serving, it is 1/100 of one percent of the sample size, which the
part of my post you cut out (or simple arithemtic) computes as .0032 grams
for a 32 gram serving (which seems to be the standard serving). An
18 oz jar of peanut butter contains about 16 of these 32 gram servings
for a total of about 5/100 of a gram of trans fats in the entire jar. So
one would need to eat 20 jars to injest one gram of trans fats. Moreover,
these numbers just represent the most that could be present without being
detected, in fact none was actually detected.

Here is the link to the page Sue found again:

http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/2001/010612.htm

Check it out.

Peggy


  #56 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 03-03-2004, 04:23 PM
jmk
 
Posts: n/a
Default Good Peanut Butter vs. Bad Peanut Butter

On 3/3/2004 11:09 AM, Peggy Sullivan wrote:
jmk wrote:

On 3/3/2004 10:47 AM, Peggy Sullivan wrote:

jmk wrote:

On 3/3/2004 10:15 AM, Peggy Sullivan wrote:

Thanks Sue! This is just the sort of information I was looking for.
I guess it comes down to taste rather than nutrition.

Peggy





I dunno about that. My DH pointed this out to me:

They say that chocolate is heart healthy in moderation.
They say that wine is heart healthy in moderation.
They say that coffee isn't bad for you.
They say eat as little trans fat as humanly possible.

Why not take the wine and coffee and chocolate and skip the trans fat?


But there do not really seem to be any trans fats to skip, in Curly Sues
post I read:

"The laboratory found no detectable trans fats in any of the samples,
with a detection limit of 0.01 percent of the sample weight."




About one gram per serving (I aske them and I think it as .8 or
something) is not zero, it's still a gram more than is necessary.
It's not as if natural peanut butter is difficult to come by.



Who did you ask?


The folks at Skippy. I e-mailed them and they left me a phone message
that same day.



--
jmk in NC
  #57 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 03-03-2004, 05:07 PM
jmk
 
Posts: n/a
Default Good Peanut Butter vs. Bad Peanut Butter

On 3/3/2004 12:09 PM, Peggy Sullivan wrote:
jmk wrote:

On 3/3/2004 11:09 AM, Peggy Sullivan wrote:

jmk wrote:

On 3/3/2004 10:47 AM, Peggy Sullivan wrote:

jmk wrote:

On 3/3/2004 10:15 AM, Peggy Sullivan wrote:

Thanks Sue! This is just the sort of information I was looking for.
I guess it comes down to taste rather than nutrition.

Peggy







I dunno about that. My DH pointed this out to me:

They say that chocolate is heart healthy in moderation.
They say that wine is heart healthy in moderation.
They say that coffee isn't bad for you.
They say eat as little trans fat as humanly possible.

Why not take the wine and coffee and chocolate and skip the trans
fat?


But there do not really seem to be any trans fats to skip, in Curly
Sues
post I read:

"The laboratory found no detectable trans fats in any of the samples,
with a detection limit of 0.01 percent of the sample weight."





About one gram per serving (I aske them and I think it as .8 or
something) is not zero, it's still a gram more than is necessary.
It's not as if natural peanut butter is difficult to come by.



Who did you ask?




The folks at Skippy. I e-mailed them and they left me a phone message
that same day.




I'm confused then. I have emailed them myself to see what they have to
say.

If what you say is true then the statement on their web site about
Skippy being a trans fat free food is false and the scientists at the
USDA that did the study described at:

http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/2001/010612.htm

are badly wrong, as are all the other websites I found that also
refer to the same results.

Perhaps however, the 0.8 grams (or something) is the quantity of
hydrogenated oils added -- almost all of which are not trans fats
according to the USDA study.

Peggy


Right. That's why I e-mailed them. It says 0 but I think that it means
"less than 1." I wanted to confirm that. Anyway, I like natural peanut
butter and it is readily available so that is what I get. It was more a
curiosity thing that anything.

--
jmk in NC
  #58 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 03-03-2004, 05:09 PM
Peggy Sullivan
 
Posts: n/a
Default Good Peanut Butter vs. Bad Peanut Butter

jmk wrote:

On 3/3/2004 11:09 AM, Peggy Sullivan wrote:

jmk wrote:

On 3/3/2004 10:47 AM, Peggy Sullivan wrote:

jmk wrote:

On 3/3/2004 10:15 AM, Peggy Sullivan wrote:

Thanks Sue! This is just the sort of information I was looking for.
I guess it comes down to taste rather than nutrition.

Peggy






I dunno about that. My DH pointed this out to me:

They say that chocolate is heart healthy in moderation.
They say that wine is heart healthy in moderation.
They say that coffee isn't bad for you.
They say eat as little trans fat as humanly possible.

Why not take the wine and coffee and chocolate and skip the trans fat?


But there do not really seem to be any trans fats to skip, in Curly
Sues
post I read:

"The laboratory found no detectable trans fats in any of the samples,
with a detection limit of 0.01 percent of the sample weight."




About one gram per serving (I aske them and I think it as .8 or
something) is not zero, it's still a gram more than is necessary.
It's not as if natural peanut butter is difficult to come by.



Who did you ask?



The folks at Skippy. I e-mailed them and they left me a phone message
that same day.




I'm confused then. I have emailed them myself to see what they have to
say.

If what you say is true then the statement on their web site about
Skippy being a trans fat free food is false and the scientists at the
USDA that did the study described at:

http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/2001/010612.htm

are badly wrong, as are all the other websites I found that also
refer to the same results.

Perhaps however, the 0.8 grams (or something) is the quantity of
hydrogenated oils added -- almost all of which are not trans fats
according to the USDA study.

Peggy



  #59 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 04-03-2004, 03:16 PM
ben
 
Posts: n/a
Default Good Peanut Butter vs. Bad Peanut Butter

jmk wrote:

About one gram per serving (I aske them and I think it as .8 or
something) is not zero, it's still a gram more than is necessary. It's
not as if natural peanut butter is difficult to come by.


How does 2% = 1 gram. Is it 2% of the jar or 2% of the total fat?

regards,
Ben


--
"What passes for wisdom may only be eloquent foolishness"

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  #60 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 04-03-2004, 03:46 PM
jmk
 
Posts: n/a
Default Good Peanut Butter vs. Bad Peanut Butter

On 3/4/2004 10:16 AM, ben wrote:
jmk wrote:

About one gram per serving (I aske them and I think it as .8 or
something) is not zero, it's still a gram more than is necessary.
It's not as if natural peanut butter is difficult to come by.



How does 2% = 1 gram. Is it 2% of the jar or 2% of the total fat?

regards,
Ben


I never said that 2% was one gram. I said that when I contacted the
company they said that Skippy contained .8 g of transfats per serving,
if I remember correctly. Since there is an alternative (peanut butter
without hydrogenated stuff) and I do think that transfats are probably
not a good thing, I don't eat it. That's just me though.

--
jmk in NC


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