Diabetic (alt.food.diabetic) This group is for the discussion of controlled-portion eating plans for the dietary management of diabetes.

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Default Ellen's breakfast vis-?-vis morning readings

Ellen K. wrote:

: Then try 1/2 slice of rye bread or equivalent carbs in rye crackers plus
: the fat/protein and see what happens.

: Just want to be sure I understand what you're suggesting, add approximately
: 10 g grain-based carbs to the green veggie & cheese?

a single Wasa cracker, weither fiber or light is about 6 grams net carbs.
some of the others are heavier in weight so higher in carbs and calories.
Also check out ryevita.

Wendy

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Default Ellen's breakfast vis-?-vis morning readings


"W. Baker" wrote in message
...
Julie Bove wrote:

: "Peppermint Patootie" wrote in message
: ...
: In article ,
: "Julie Bove" wrote:
:
: Do you have a cite that the non-digestible fiber has to be at least
5g
: per
: serving? Because I was told in factoring carbs to deduct it for
: everything.
:
: Some people are told to follow that rule, others are not. I do not
: follow it.

: Well seeing as how I use insulin, I have to get the correct carb count.
: That's why I wanted an actual cite. What people were told is of no
matter
: to me.

: That being said, I do follow the Exchange Plan and on that plan you do
not
: count the low carb vegetables unless you are eating 3 or more servings
per
: meal. Then you have to count it as a carb. Carb being 15g. That's
minus
: the fiber.

When I waas taught the exchange plan no one said anything about whether
fiber was a factor. In addition, exchanges had different values for
sdderent types of food i.e. fruits 1 exchange was 10 gram of carb(no
fiber subtraction mentions) while one bread exchange ws 15 grams fo carb,
again no fiber mentioned. I was to look at the carb count on the package
if it was something like bread in a package, otherwise things like small
fruit, medium fruit, 1/2 C of ve, or pasta, etc. I don't believe that any
fiber was subtracted, so whole wheat bread and white bred would be the
same per slice, although whole wheat would be suggested as preferable.


I was told that fruit, bread and milk were all interchangeable in terms of
carbs and to subtract the fiber.


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Old 05-09-2010, 10:29 PM posted to alt.food.diabetic
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Default Ellen's breakfast vis--vis morning readings


"Ellen K." wrote in message
...

"Ozgirl" wrote in message
...


"Ellen K." wrote in message
...

"Ozgirl" wrote in message
...


"Ellen K." wrote in message
...

"Ozgirl" wrote in message
...


"Ellen K." wrote in message
...

"Janet Wilder" wrote in message
...
On 9/3/2010 4:39 PM, Ellen K. wrote:

"Nicky" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 30 Aug 2010 13:25:42 -0700, "Ellen K."
wrote:

It needs CARBS to turn it off in the morning?

Yes, the mechanism is to turn off the release of glucose from the
liver, by having just the right amount of carbs coming in from
the
digestion.


Today instead of my usual romaine lettuce, I tried a whole raw
green
pepper with my cheese, i.e. about 5 gm net carbs instead of 2.
Here are
my numbers:
5:58 98 This is shortly after getting up, and incidentally my
lowest FBG
so far.
6:33 104 Right before breakfast. Finished the food at 7:08.
7:53 137 45 minutes after finishing the food, missed testing at
what I
now think is my peak of 35 minutes because I was in the middle of
something for work.
8:18 133 70 minutes
After this didn't test again till 11:08, four hours after the
food,
which was 104.

So while 137 is under the magic 140, it's still 33 points up from
the
pre-breakfast value, and was probably not even the peak, although
considering that the next 25 minutes resulted in a reduction of
only 4
points, maybe the peak wasn't much higher than the 137.

Any thoughts?



My only thought is that cheese and a green pepper should not spike
you like that. My suggestion is that you may need professional
intervention.


I don't think the food spiked me, I think the dawn phenomenon just
keeps going up.

Then try 1/2 slice of rye bread or equivalent carbs in rye crackers
plus the fat/protein and see what happens.

Just want to be sure I understand what you're suggesting, add
approximately 10 g grain-based carbs to the green veggie & cheese?

Yep. Although 1/2 a slice of the rye breads I get would be about 7-8 gr
net carb. So that would be about 10gr including the pepper.

I had the pepper at 5 (7 minus 2), I have some rye matzo here which has
22 (24 -2) for a whole one, I was thinking a half, but since it looks
like you're suggesting to try for around 10 total, maybe I should try a
quarter.


Sounds reasonable. You will either go much higher with the matzo or stay
around the same pre meal bg. If you stay the same then you probably
weren't turning off DP with the previous meals.


OK, thanks very much! I'll report back.


Got up very late today, FBG was already 136, pre-breakfast value 135, I felt
the test would not be valid under these conditions, hoping to try tomorrow.

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Old 05-09-2010, 10:35 PM posted to alt.food.diabetic
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Default Ellen's breakfast vis-?-vis morning readings


"W. Baker" wrote in message
...
Ellen K. wrote:

: Then try 1/2 slice of rye bread or equivalent carbs in rye crackers
plus
: the fat/protein and see what happens.

: Just want to be sure I understand what you're suggesting, add
approximately
: 10 g grain-based carbs to the green veggie & cheese?

a single Wasa cracker, weither fiber or light is about 6 grams net carbs.
some of the others are heavier in weight so higher in carbs and calories.
Also check out ryevita.

Wendy


I think I will be better off using the rye matzo, not least because now if
it works I will have a use for all the halves left over from the Shabbos
meals. (The psak I got was to eat the Ashkenazi version of a kezayis, which
is half a machine matzo, and consider the other food in the meal to be
aggregated with it to get up to the amount needed to be able to wash with a
brocho and bentsh afterwards. Sephardim and Lubavitch hold a kezayis is a
whole machine matzo.) Another reason is that it doesn't set off further
carb cravings.

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Old 05-09-2010, 11:39 PM posted to alt.food.diabetic
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Default Ellen's breakfast vis-?-vis morning readings

Ellen K. wrote:

: Got up very late today, FBG was already 136, pre-breakfast value 135, I felt
: the test would not be valid under these conditions, hoping to try tomorrow.

Try it any day and see. You may need to try a few times under different
conditions.

Wendy


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Old 05-09-2010, 11:43 PM posted to alt.food.diabetic
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Default Ellen's breakfast vis-?-vis morning readings

Julie Bove wrote:
:
: : Well seeing as how I use insulin, I have to get the correct carb count.
: : That's why I wanted an actual cite. What people were told is of no
: matter
: : to me.
:
: : That being said, I do follow the Exchange Plan and on that plan you do
: not
: : count the low carb vegetables unless you are eating 3 or more servings
: per
: : meal. Then you have to count it as a carb. Carb being 15g. That's
: minus
: : the fiber.
:
: When I waas taught the exchange plan no one said anything about whether
: fiber was a factor. In addition, exchanges had different values for
: sdderent types of food i.e. fruits 1 exchange was 10 gram of carb(no
: fiber subtraction mentions) while one bread exchange ws 15 grams fo carb,
: again no fiber mentioned. I was to look at the carb count on the package
: if it was something like bread in a package, otherwise things like small
: fruit, medium fruit, 1/2 C of ve, or pasta, etc. I don't believe that any
: fiber was subtracted, so whole wheat bread and white bred would be the
: same per slice, although whole wheat would be suggested as preferable.

: I was told that fruit, bread and milk were all interchangeable in terms of
: carbs and to subtract the fiber.

The exchange plan I learned was all in terms of measurements, not counting
for each food item. 1/2 C of pasta, 1/3 C of rice, 1 C of brocolli, 1
small apple, 1 slice of bread, 1/2 C oatmeal, etc. no total number of
carbs or calories, just numbers of exchanges and the diet was
individualized by how many of each kind of exchange you were to eat in a
day-like 5 (1 oz ) lean or medium meat exchanged, 3 fruit exchanges, etc.

Wendy
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Old 05-09-2010, 11:45 PM posted to alt.food.diabetic
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Default Ellen's breakfast vis-?-vis morning readings

Ellen K. wrote:

: "W. Baker" wrote in message
: ...
: Ellen K. wrote:
:
: : Then try 1/2 slice of rye bread or equivalent carbs in rye crackers
: plus
: : the fat/protein and see what happens.
:
: : Just want to be sure I understand what you're suggesting, add
: approximately
: : 10 g grain-based carbs to the green veggie & cheese?
:
: a single Wasa cracker, weither fiber or light is about 6 grams net carbs.
: some of the others are heavier in weight so higher in carbs and calories.
: Also check out ryevita.
:
: Wendy

: I think I will be better off using the rye matzo, not least because now if
: it works I will have a use for all the halves left over from the Shabbos
: meals. (The psak I got was to eat the Ashkenazi version of a kezayis, which
: is half a machine matzo, and consider the other food in the meal to be
: aggregated with it to get up to the amount needed to be able to wash with a
: brocho and bentsh afterwards. Sephardim and Lubavitch hold a kezayis is a
: whole machine matzo.) Another reason is that it doesn't set off further
: carb cravings.

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Old 05-09-2010, 11:48 PM posted to alt.food.diabetic
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Default Ellen's breakfast vis-?-vis morning readings


"W. Baker" wrote in message
...
Julie Bove wrote:
:
: : Well seeing as how I use insulin, I have to get the correct carb
count.
: : That's why I wanted an actual cite. What people were told is of no
: matter
: : to me.
:
: : That being said, I do follow the Exchange Plan and on that plan you
do
: not
: : count the low carb vegetables unless you are eating 3 or more
servings
: per
: : meal. Then you have to count it as a carb. Carb being 15g. That's
: minus
: : the fiber.
:
: When I waas taught the exchange plan no one said anything about
whether
: fiber was a factor. In addition, exchanges had different values for
: sdderent types of food i.e. fruits 1 exchange was 10 gram of carb(no
: fiber subtraction mentions) while one bread exchange ws 15 grams fo
carb,
: again no fiber mentioned. I was to look at the carb count on the
package
: if it was something like bread in a package, otherwise things like
small
: fruit, medium fruit, 1/2 C of ve, or pasta, etc. I don't believe that
any
: fiber was subtracted, so whole wheat bread and white bred would be
the
: same per slice, although whole wheat would be suggested as preferable.

: I was told that fruit, bread and milk were all interchangeable in terms
of
: carbs and to subtract the fiber.

The exchange plan I learned was all in terms of measurements, not counting
for each food item. 1/2 C of pasta, 1/3 C of rice, 1 C of brocolli, 1
small apple, 1 slice of bread, 1/2 C oatmeal, etc. no total number of
carbs or calories, just numbers of exchanges and the diet was
individualized by how many of each kind of exchange you were to eat in a
day-like 5 (1 oz ) lean or medium meat exchanged, 3 fruit exchanges, etc.


That's right. There was a chart showing how much of each food equaled an
exchange. However since I don't drink milk and rarely eat fruit, I was told
to substitute a starch for those things.


  #39 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 06-09-2010, 01:09 AM posted to alt.food.diabetic
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Posts: 226
Default Ellen's breakfast vis-?-vis morning readings


"W. Baker" wrote in message
...
Julie Bove wrote:
:
: : Well seeing as how I use insulin, I have to get the correct carb
count.
: : That's why I wanted an actual cite. What people were told is of no
: matter
: : to me.
:
: : That being said, I do follow the Exchange Plan and on that plan you
do
: not
: : count the low carb vegetables unless you are eating 3 or more
servings
: per
: : meal. Then you have to count it as a carb. Carb being 15g. That's
: minus
: : the fiber.
:
: When I waas taught the exchange plan no one said anything about
whether
: fiber was a factor. In addition, exchanges had different values for
: sdderent types of food i.e. fruits 1 exchange was 10 gram of carb(no
: fiber subtraction mentions) while one bread exchange ws 15 grams fo
carb,
: again no fiber mentioned. I was to look at the carb count on the
package
: if it was something like bread in a package, otherwise things like
small
: fruit, medium fruit, 1/2 C of ve, or pasta, etc. I don't believe that
any
: fiber was subtracted, so whole wheat bread and white bred would be
the
: same per slice, although whole wheat would be suggested as preferable.

: I was told that fruit, bread and milk were all interchangeable in terms
of
: carbs and to subtract the fiber.

The exchange plan I learned was all in terms of measurements, not counting
for each food item. 1/2 C of pasta, 1/3 C of rice, 1 C of brocolli, 1
small apple, 1 slice of bread, 1/2 C oatmeal, etc. no total number of
carbs or calories, just numbers of exchanges and the diet was
individualized by how many of each kind of exchange you were to eat in a
day-like 5 (1 oz ) lean or medium meat exchanged, 3 fruit exchanges, etc.

Wendy


That was my experience also.

I'm gonna guess they tell Julie a carb count for each exchange type because
she has to know the carb count in order to calculate her insulin. ?

  #40 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 06-09-2010, 01:10 AM posted to alt.food.diabetic
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Default Ellen's breakfast vis-?-vis morning readings


"W. Baker" wrote in message
...
Ellen K. wrote:

: Got up very late today, FBG was already 136, pre-breakfast value 135, I
felt
: the test would not be valid under these conditions, hoping to try
tomorrow.

Try it any day and see. You may need to try a few times under different
conditions.

Wendy


Well, if we are trying to get the DP to turn off, there's no sense trying it
when it's already ready to turn off by itself (noonish).



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Old 06-09-2010, 03:31 AM posted to alt.food.diabetic
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Default Ellen's breakfast vis-?-vis morning readings

On 9/5/2010 4:35 PM, Ellen K. wrote:

"W. Baker" wrote in message
...
Ellen K. wrote:

: Then try 1/2 slice of rye bread or equivalent carbs in rye
crackers plus
: the fat/protein and see what happens.

: Just want to be sure I understand what you're suggesting, add
approximately
: 10 g grain-based carbs to the green veggie & cheese?

a single Wasa cracker, weither fiber or light is about 6 grams net carbs.
some of the others are heavier in weight so higher in carbs and calories.
Also check out ryevita.

Wendy


I think I will be better off using the rye matzo, not least because now
if it works I will have a use for all the halves left over from the
Shabbos meals. (The psak I got was to eat the Ashkenazi version of a
kezayis, which is half a machine matzo, and consider the other food in
the meal to be aggregated with it to get up to the amount needed to be
able to wash with a brocho and bentsh afterwards. Sephardim and
Lubavitch hold a kezayis is a whole machine matzo.) Another reason is
that it doesn't set off further carb cravings.


The word "Kezayis" means like an olive, so the piece should be the size
of an olive. As far as I know, neither the Ashkenazim nor the Sephardim
require one to eat anything that would be bad for their health. I think
this is a shaila for a personal rabbi who understands your medical needs.

Just my opinion.

So paskins rav Janet :-)

--
Janet Wilder
Way-the-heck-south Texas
Spelling doesn't count. Cooking does.
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Old 06-09-2010, 03:35 AM posted to alt.food.diabetic
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Default Ellen's breakfast vis-?-vis morning readings

On 9/5/2010 5:48 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
"W. wrote in message
...
Julie wrote:
:
: : Well seeing as how I use insulin, I have to get the correct carb
count.
: : That's why I wanted an actual cite. What people were told is of no
: matter
: : to me.
:
: : That being said, I do follow the Exchange Plan and on that plan you
do
: not
: : count the low carb vegetables unless you are eating 3 or more
servings
: per
: : meal. Then you have to count it as a carb. Carb being 15g. That's
: minus
: : the fiber.
:
: When I waas taught the exchange plan no one said anything about
whether
: fiber was a factor. In addition, exchanges had different values for
: sdderent types of food i.e. fruits 1 exchange was 10 gram of carb(no
: fiber subtraction mentions) while one bread exchange ws 15 grams fo
carb,
: again no fiber mentioned. I was to look at the carb count on the
package
: if it was something like bread in a package, otherwise things like
small
: fruit, medium fruit, 1/2 C of ve, or pasta, etc. I don't believe that
any
: fiber was subtracted, so whole wheat bread and white bred would be
the
: same per slice, although whole wheat would be suggested as preferable.

: I was told that fruit, bread and milk were all interchangeable in terms
of
: carbs and to subtract the fiber.

The exchange plan I learned was all in terms of measurements, not counting
for each food item. 1/2 C of pasta, 1/3 C of rice, 1 C of brocolli, 1
small apple, 1 slice of bread, 1/2 C oatmeal, etc. no total number of
carbs or calories, just numbers of exchanges and the diet was
individualized by how many of each kind of exchange you were to eat in a
day-like 5 (1 oz ) lean or medium meat exchanged, 3 fruit exchanges, etc.


That's right. There was a chart showing how much of each food equaled an
exchange. However since I don't drink milk and rarely eat fruit, I was told
to substitute a starch for those things.



We gave up on the exchange business years ago. It was impossible for my
DH to comprehend. We went back to Diabetes School and learned "carb
counting" and it was like a miracle. His weight went down, his A1C went
down and he started to enjoy his food instead of worrying about what it
was doing to him.

He was given the numbers of carbs he could have for meals and snacks and
that was adjusted after he kept a food diary for a month. He now knows
how much carbohydrates he can handle at what time of the day and is
doing great.

--
Janet Wilder
Way-the-heck-south Texas
Spelling doesn't count. Cooking does.
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Default Ellen's breakfast vis-?-vis morning readings


"Janet Wilder" wrote in message
...

We gave up on the exchange business years ago. It was impossible for my DH
to comprehend. We went back to Diabetes School and learned "carb counting"
and it was like a miracle. His weight went down, his A1C went down and he
started to enjoy his food instead of worrying about what it was doing to
him.

He was given the numbers of carbs he could have for meals and snacks and
that was adjusted after he kept a food diary for a month. He now knows how
much carbohydrates he can handle at what time of the day and is doing
great.


So nice to read a success story, KUTGW!

--
Janet Wilder
Way-the-heck-south Texas
Spelling doesn't count. Cooking does.


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Old 06-09-2010, 03:50 AM posted to alt.food.diabetic
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Default Ellen's breakfast vis-?-vis morning readings


"Janet Wilder" wrote in message
...

We gave up on the exchange business years ago. It was impossible for my DH
to comprehend. We went back to Diabetes School and learned "carb counting"
and it was like a miracle. His weight went down, his A1C went down and he
started to enjoy his food instead of worrying about what it was doing to
him.


I don't understand why people think it is difficult. It is really no
different than carb counting except that there is less math to do. They're
really pretty much the same thing. I don't technically do the carb counting
because I don't like to do all that adding. It's just far easier for me to
think in terms of 1, 2 or 3 servings of whatever the carb is. The Exchange
Plan has never caused me to wory.

He was given the numbers of carbs he could have for meals and snacks and
that was adjusted after he kept a food diary for a month. He now knows how
much carbohydrates he can handle at what time of the day and is doing
great.


I know too. Not doing great by any means, but it is not the fault of the
Exchange Plan. It's my body and perhaps some sort of genetic component. I
say this because both brother and father are having similar difficulties.
We all seem to do well with diet and exercise for a while. Things are very
easy to control. Then one day we are out of control and seem to stay there
no matter what.


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Old 06-09-2010, 03:52 AM posted to alt.food.diabetic
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Default Ellen's breakfast vis-?-vis morning readings


"Ellen K." wrote in message
...

"W. Baker" wrote in message
...
Julie Bove wrote:
:
: : Well seeing as how I use insulin, I have to get the correct carb
count.
: : That's why I wanted an actual cite. What people were told is of no
: matter
: : to me.
:
: : That being said, I do follow the Exchange Plan and on that plan you
do
: not
: : count the low carb vegetables unless you are eating 3 or more
servings
: per
: : meal. Then you have to count it as a carb. Carb being 15g.
That's
: minus
: : the fiber.
:
: When I waas taught the exchange plan no one said anything about
whether
: fiber was a factor. In addition, exchanges had different values for
: sdderent types of food i.e. fruits 1 exchange was 10 gram of
carb(no
: fiber subtraction mentions) while one bread exchange ws 15 grams fo
carb,
: again no fiber mentioned. I was to look at the carb count on the
package
: if it was something like bread in a package, otherwise things like
small
: fruit, medium fruit, 1/2 C of ve, or pasta, etc. I don't believe
that any
: fiber was subtracted, so whole wheat bread and white bred would be
the
: same per slice, although whole wheat would be suggested as
preferable.

: I was told that fruit, bread and milk were all interchangeable in terms
of
: carbs and to subtract the fiber.

The exchange plan I learned was all in terms of measurements, not
counting
for each food item. 1/2 C of pasta, 1/3 C of rice, 1 C of brocolli, 1
small apple, 1 slice of bread, 1/2 C oatmeal, etc. no total number of
carbs or calories, just numbers of exchanges and the diet was
individualized by how many of each kind of exchange you were to eat in a
day-like 5 (1 oz ) lean or medium meat exchanged, 3 fruit exchanges, etc.

Wendy


That was my experience also.

I'm gonna guess they tell Julie a carb count for each exchange type
because she has to know the carb count in order to calculate her insulin.
?


I do need to know that, but actually every dietician I have seen has touted
the exhange program, especially for those who need to lose weight. If
weight loss is not an issue then perhaps one only needs to concern
themselves with carbs. But I would think for most of us, fat would have to
factor in there, particularly if you are going to eat some form of carbs.




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