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Old 30-01-2010, 04:32 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default TN: Corked wines at the CIA

Some friends asked us if we would join them for dinner at the St
Andrews Cafe at the Culinary Institute of American in Hyde Park. I
hurried home from work and we drove north. arriving just in time. My
first time on this campus (quite nice and collegial, though the route
from parking to restaurants could be better defined)

This evening was part of their dinner series, the theme was Slow &
Savory Cooking. Just in case it sounds like I'm carping/complaining,
let me say at the outset that I had a good time, I found the kids
delightful in their trying so hard, and the food was mostly good.

There was a nice bread basket brought out (including cheese biscuits
that I really loved), and then an amuse of crusted goat cheese topped
with candied pecan and orange. Tasty, but crust separating, and I
personally thought a dish that would have been far better hot than
room temp. They brought the wine for the first course, a bubbly, the
NV Clinton "Naturel." I wasn't at all fond of this wine, canned pears
with a metallic edge, a little sweetness, short, herbal. C

The first real course was my favorite of the night, a slow-roasted
cauliflower and garlic soup with beet chips on top (and black
truffles, though I only got one tiny bit that I noticed). Really a
wonderful soup, and a perfect thing on a cold cold night.

The next course was braised beef short rib ravioli with pecorino and
a side of caramelized onions. Filling great, ravioli could use a
little work. Now, one can see into the kitchen, and in front of the
kitchen was the bar. A student was very carefully filling glasses (I
think about 40 people were in dining room), and servers brought out
the glasses. I sniffed my Merlot, uh oh. I'm not the most sensitive,
but this is clearly corked. Betsy agrees, and once I explain to Rachel
what corked is (they aren't wine geeks) she clearly gets the cardboard
smell. Joe doesn't, but Betsy does from his glass, I think he is just
TCA insensitive. I quietly ask the waiter to have the wine guy from
faculty smell the wine, as I think it's corked. We see intense
discussion, but not much sniffing. Eventually a student and faculty
member bring over 4 new glasses, and it's night and day. No cardboard,
the 2006 Bonterra Merlot (Mendocino) is a fairly fruit forward plummy
wine, red fruit accented with smoke and a little vanilla. Not very
long, but not corked! B-

Next up, lamb shank stew with glazed root vegetables (rutabaga,
celeriac, and carrots) and caramelized pearl onions, topped with fried
onion. Lamb could use a tad more seasoning, but good. Unfortunately,
the wine (2006 Alexander Valley Vineyards Cabernet Sauvignon) wasn't -
corked again. I found it corked (though not as dramatically as the
Merlot), Betsy too, Rachel said "hey,it smells the same as first glass
of the last wine, but I like the taste," Joe doesn't notice. They
didn't mind, and Betsy and I quietly agreed that we'd just live with
it (it had been a production that took 8 or 10 minutes before). So I
didn't drink mine. I know the arguments for calling over waiter, but
at this point I didn't want wine flaws to be focus of evening. I don't
eat desserts, but others enjoyed lilttle sampler plate with creme
brulee, chococlate tart, and cherry chocolate brioche pudding.

Fun night. But I'll write a note to CIA. Now, I'm not super-senstive,
about average, I tend to find maybe 3% corked. So chances are about
one in a thousand of me finding two corked wines in a row, but it
happened. Though it took some time, they handled the first sendback
well. I'm sure they would have with second, too. However, it seems to
me that those wines should never have made it to table. Part of
teaching service should be identifying flaws in a non-bottle service
enviroment. If student doesn't know about TCA, someone else should be
there to check. The difference between the flawed bottles and a fresh
bottle would be readily apparent side by side, even if one didn't know
"corked" (unless they were genetically insensitive). I mean, I sent
back the Merlot, and it was my choice to stay mum about the Cabernet.
However, I think the pours were roughly 4 ounces, so I'd assume 2 more
glasses from each bottle were floating around room. I know many
(most?) people don't pay attention to wine, and even less understand
re TCA, but my guess is those people enjoyed their wine less than a
clean bottle. Checking the wine for correctness should be done before
wines by the glass are sent to table. It would be useful for a student
even just to learn if they were among the insensitive.

Overall, despite the wine angst, a very fun night. I'd do again
(though next time we'd go for a B&B, too much driving. Luckily, since
my consumption was probably 6 ounces (2 ounces of bubbly, 4 ounces of
replacement Merlot) over 2.5 hours, no driving issues.

Grade disclaimer: I'm a very easy grader, basically A is an
excellent*wine, B a good wine, C mediocre. Anything below C means I
wouldn't*drink at a party where it was only choice. Furthermore, I
offer no*promises of objectivity, accuracy, and certainly not of
consistency.**

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Old 30-01-2010, 04:52 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default TN: Corked wines at the CIA

On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 07:32:58 -0800 (PST), DaleW
wrote:

Some friends asked us if we would join them for dinner at the St
Andrews Cafe at the Culinary Institute of American in Hyde Park. I
hurried home from work and we drove north. arriving just in time. My
first time on this campus (quite nice and collegial, though the route
from parking to restaurants could be better defined)

This evening was part of their dinner series, the theme was Slow &
Savory Cooking. Just in case it sounds like I'm carping/complaining,
let me say at the outset that I had a good time, I found the kids
delightful in their trying so hard, and the food was mostly good.

There was a nice bread basket brought out (including cheese biscuits
that I really loved), and then an amuse of crusted goat cheese topped
with candied pecan and orange. Tasty, but crust separating, and I
personally thought a dish that would have been far better hot than
room temp. They brought the wine for the first course, a bubbly, the
NV Clinton "Naturel." I wasn't at all fond of this wine, canned pears
with a metallic edge, a little sweetness, short, herbal. C

The first real course was my favorite of the night, a slow-roasted
cauliflower and garlic soup with beet chips on top (and black
truffles, though I only got one tiny bit that I noticed). Really a
wonderful soup, and a perfect thing on a cold cold night.

The next course was braised beef short rib ravioli with pecorino and
a side of caramelized onions. Filling great, ravioli could use a
little work. Now, one can see into the kitchen, and in front of the
kitchen was the bar. A student was very carefully filling glasses (I
think about 40 people were in dining room), and servers brought out
the glasses. I sniffed my Merlot, uh oh. I'm not the most sensitive,
but this is clearly corked. Betsy agrees, and once I explain to Rachel
what corked is (they aren't wine geeks) she clearly gets the cardboard
smell. Joe doesn't, but Betsy does from his glass, I think he is just
TCA insensitive. I quietly ask the waiter to have the wine guy from
faculty smell the wine, as I think it's corked. We see intense
discussion, but not much sniffing. Eventually a student and faculty
member bring over 4 new glasses, and it's night and day. No cardboard,
the 2006 Bonterra Merlot (Mendocino) is a fairly fruit forward plummy
wine, red fruit accented with smoke and a little vanilla. Not very
long, but not corked! B-

Next up, lamb shank stew with glazed root vegetables (rutabaga,
celeriac, and carrots) and caramelized pearl onions, topped with fried
onion. Lamb could use a tad more seasoning, but good. Unfortunately,
the wine (2006 Alexander Valley Vineyards Cabernet Sauvignon) wasn't -
corked again. I found it corked (though not as dramatically as the
Merlot), Betsy too, Rachel said "hey,it smells the same as first glass
of the last wine, but I like the taste," Joe doesn't notice. They
didn't mind, and Betsy and I quietly agreed that we'd just live with
it (it had been a production that took 8 or 10 minutes before). So I
didn't drink mine. I know the arguments for calling over waiter, but
at this point I didn't want wine flaws to be focus of evening. I don't
eat desserts, but others enjoyed lilttle sampler plate with creme
brulee, chococlate tart, and cherry chocolate brioche pudding.

Fun night. But I'll write a note to CIA. Now, I'm not super-senstive,
about average, I tend to find maybe 3% corked. So chances are about
one in a thousand of me finding two corked wines in a row, but it
happened. Though it took some time, they handled the first sendback
well. I'm sure they would have with second, too. However, it seems to
me that those wines should never have made it to table. Part of
teaching service should be identifying flaws in a non-bottle service
enviroment. If student doesn't know about TCA, someone else should be
there to check. The difference between the flawed bottles and a fresh
bottle would be readily apparent side by side, even if one didn't know
"corked" (unless they were genetically insensitive). I mean, I sent
back the Merlot, and it was my choice to stay mum about the Cabernet.
However, I think the pours were roughly 4 ounces, so I'd assume 2 more
glasses from each bottle were floating around room. I know many
(most?) people don't pay attention to wine, and even less understand
re TCA, but my guess is those people enjoyed their wine less than a
clean bottle. Checking the wine for correctness should be done before
wines by the glass are sent to table. It would be useful for a student
even just to learn if they were among the insensitive.

Overall, despite the wine angst, a very fun night. I'd do again
(though next time we'd go for a B&B, too much driving. Luckily, since
my consumption was probably 6 ounces (2 ounces of bubbly, 4 ounces of
replacement Merlot) over 2.5 hours, no driving issues.




I'm going back about 30 years, but my wife Eileen and I went to a
weekend dinner/wine tasting at the Culinary Institute of American, run
by Les Amis du Vin. It began on Saturday afternoon with appetizers and
wines in the courtyard, then went in to dinner in the large dining
room (ballroom?). We then went to a nearby motel, and returned the
next day for desserts.

It was too long ago to remember any of the details of what we ate or
drank, but I remember liking it very much. There were well over 50
different wines, and much too much to eat


--
Ken Blake
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Old 30-01-2010, 06:47 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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DaleW wrote on Sat, 30 Jan 2010 07:32:58 -0800 (PST):

This evening was part of their dinner series, the theme was
Slow & Savory Cooking. Just in case it sounds like I'm
carping/complaining, let me say at the outset that I had a
good time, I found the kids delightful in their trying so
hard, and the food was mostly good.


I wish you wouldn't abbreviate the Culinary Institute of America as the
CIA. Corked wines might be useful to the real CIA. My nephew passed out
after drinking some wine (provided by his mother) that was only slightly
corked.

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

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Old 30-01-2010, 07:54 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Mike wrote on Sat, 30 Jan 2010 19:16:07 +0100:

James Silverton wrote:
DaleW wrote on Sat, 30 Jan 2010 07:32:58 -0800 (PST):

This evening was part of their dinner series, the theme was
Slow & Savory Cooking. Just in case it sounds like I'm
carping/complaining, let me say at the outset that I had a
good time, I found the kids delightful in their trying so
hard, and the food was mostly good.


I wish you wouldn't abbreviate the Culinary Institute of
America as the CIA. Corked wines might be useful to the real
CIA. My nephew passed out after drinking some wine (provided
by his mother) that was only slightly corked.


Define "some" :-)


About 2 floz I would say :-)

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not
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Old 31-01-2010, 01:03 AM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default TN: Corked wines at the CIA

On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 12:47:56 -0500, James Silverton wrote:

DaleW wrote on Sat, 30 Jan 2010 07:32:58 -0800 (PST):

This evening was part of their dinner series, the theme was Slow &
Savory Cooking. Just in case it sounds like I'm carping/complaining,
let me say at the outset that I had a good time, I found the kids
delightful in their trying so hard, and the food was mostly good.


I wish you wouldn't abbreviate the Culinary Institute of America as the
CIA. Corked wines might be useful to the real CIA. My nephew passed out
after drinking some wine (provided by his mother) that was only slightly
corked.


It depends upon your viewpoint of which is the "real" CIA.
Is it the one that does covert operations in other countries, carries out
assassinations, promotes wars and insurrections, or is it the one that
attempts to educate the culinary professionals of the future?

I would prefer to think of the later choice as being "real."

Godzilla


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Old 31-01-2010, 02:56 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Godzilla wrote on Sun, 31 Jan 2010 00:03:27 +0000:

DaleW wrote on Sat, 30 Jan 2010 07:32:58 -0800 (PST):

This evening was part of their dinner series, the theme was
Slow & Savory Cooking. Just in case it sounds like I'm
carping/complaining, let me say at the outset that I had a
good time, I found the kids delightful in their trying so
hard, and the food was mostly good.


I wish you wouldn't abbreviate the Culinary Institute of
America as the CIA. Corked wines might be useful to the real
CIA. My nephew passed out after drinking some wine (provided
by his mother) that was only slightly corked.


It depends upon your viewpoint of which is the "real" CIA.
Is it the one that does covert operations in other countries,
carries out assassinations, promotes wars and insurrections,
or is it the one that attempts to educate the culinary
professionals of the future?


I would prefer to think of the later choice as being "real."


In the population as a whole, I suspect 99% have never heard of the
Culinary Institute of America but know the CIA is the spy agency. That's
real enough even if the Culinary Institute does more real good :-)

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

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Old 31-01-2010, 03:54 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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On Jan 30, 12:47*pm, "James Silverton"
wrote:
*DaleW *wrote *on Sat, 30 Jan 2010 07:32:58 -0800 (PST):

This evening was part of their dinner series, the theme was
Slow & Savory Cooking. Just in case it sounds like I'm
carping/complaining, let me say at the outset that I had a
good time, I found the kids delightful in their trying so
hard, and the food was mostly good.


I wish you wouldn't abbreviate the Culinary Institute of America as the
CIA. Corked wines might be useful to the real CIA. My nephew passed out
after drinking some wine (provided by his mother) that was only slightly
corked.

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not


Sorry, I assumed on a wine group people would assume Culinary
Institute.
Are you saying he passed out because it was corked?!?!?
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Old 31-01-2010, 04:15 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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DaleW wrote on Sun, 31 Jan 2010 06:54:03 -0800 (PST):

On Jan 30, 12:47 pm, "James Silverton"
wrote:
DaleW wrote on Sat, 30 Jan 2010 07:32:58 -0800 (PST):

This evening was part of their dinner series, the theme was
Slow & Savory Cooking. Just in case it sounds like I'm
carping/complaining, let me say at the outset that I had a
good time, I found the kids delightful in their trying so
hard, and the food was mostly good.


I wish you wouldn't abbreviate the Culinary Institute of
America as the CIA. Corked wines might be useful to the real
CIA. My nephew passed out after drinking some wine (provided
by his mother) that was only slightly corked.

Are you saying he passed out because it was corked?!?!?


That's what the evidence seems to suggest! His mother and I drank a
glass or two with dinner. Needless to say, he didn't.


--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

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Old 31-01-2010, 05:57 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Mike wrote on Sun, 31 Jan 2010 16:21:54 +0100:

James Silverton wrote:
DaleW wrote on Sun, 31 Jan 2010 06:54:03 -0800 (PST):

On Jan 30, 12:47 pm, "James Silverton"
wrote:
DaleW wrote on Sat, 30 Jan 2010 07:32:58 -0800 (PST):

This evening was part of their dinner series, the theme
was Slow & Savory Cooking. Just in case it sounds like
I'm carping/complaining, let me say at the outset that I had a
good time, I found the kids delightful in their
trying so hard, and the food was mostly good.

I wish you wouldn't abbreviate the Culinary Institute of
America as the CIA. Corked wines might be useful to the
real CIA. My nephew passed out after drinking some wine
(provided by his mother) that was only slightly corked.

Are you saying he passed out because it was corked?!?!?


That's what the evidence seems to suggest! His mother and I
drank a glass or two with dinner. Needless to say, he didn't.


Who's he?


In context and with quotes, my nephew obviously. He's an adult not a
rugrat :-)

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

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Old 31-01-2010, 06:30 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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DaleW wrote on Sun, 31 Jan 2010 06:54:03 -0800 (PST):

On Jan 30, 12:47 pm, "James Silverton"
wrote:
DaleW wrote on Sat, 30 Jan 2010 07:32:58 -0800 (PST):

This evening was part of their dinner series, the theme was
Slow & Savory Cooking. Just in case it sounds like I'm
carping/complaining, let me say at the outset that I had a
good time, I found the kids delightful in their trying so
hard, and the food was mostly good.


I wish you wouldn't abbreviate the Culinary Institute of
America as the CIA. Corked wines might be useful to the real
CIA. My nephew passed out after drinking some wine (provided
by his mother) that was only slightly corked.


Sorry, I assumed on a wine group people would assume Culinary
Institute.


I suspect you are optimistic about knowledge outside California about
the Culinary Institute. I get out to Napa once in while and I have heard
of it and seen the buildings from the road. Isn't it in the old
Christian Brothers winery? (Did they have to sell the place because of
incompetence or was it for money to pay abuse suits?)

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not



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Old 31-01-2010, 07:18 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Ed wrote on Sun, 31 Jan 2010 11:36:39 -0600:

DaleW wrote on Sun, 31 Jan 2010 06:54:03 -0800 (PST):

On Jan 30, 12:47 pm, "James Silverton"
wrote:
DaleW wrote on Sat, 30 Jan 2010 07:32:58 -0800 (PST):

This evening was part of their dinner series, the theme
was Slow & Savory Cooking. Just in case it sounds like
I'm carping/complaining, let me say at the outset that I
had a good time, I found the kids delightful in their
trying so hard, and the food was mostly good.

I wish you wouldn't abbreviate the Culinary Institute of
America as the CIA. Corked wines might be useful to the
real CIA. My nephew passed out after drinking some wine
(provided by his mother) that was only slightly corked.

Sorry, I assumed on a wine group people would assume
Culinary Institute.


I suspect you are optimistic about knowledge outside
California about the Culinary Institute. I get out to Napa
once in while and I have heard of it and seen the buildings
from the road. Isn't it in the old Christian Brothers winery?
(Did they have to sell the place because of incompetence or
was it for money to pay abuse suits?)


Somewhat gratuituous Catholic bashing there. I've got a
suspicion that you don't really know much about the Christian
Brothers. They are NOT priests. I don't recall ever hearing of
any abuse suits, but anything is possible. Their competence in
running a university in MN and hundreds of Catholic high
schools around the country was well recognized. The winery
enterprise was quite successful in the bulk wine market for
many years.


Although I'm long gone from the Catholic Church, I was the
recipient of a Christian Brothers education in Chicago (St.
Patrick's HS on Belmont Ave.) and it has served me quite well.


I'm a non-practicing Catholic myself but abuse by clerical personnel is
no cheap shot and cannot be denied; witness the recent report from
Ireland. If you want to get some horror stories, try a Google search on
Christian Brothers abuse.

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

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Old 31-01-2010, 08:39 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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On Sun, 31 Jan 2010 08:56:45 -0500, James Silverton wrote:

Godzilla wrote on Sun, 31 Jan 2010 00:03:27 +0000:

DaleW wrote on Sat, 30 Jan 2010 07:32:58 -0800 (PST):

This evening was part of their dinner series, the theme was Slow &
Savory Cooking. Just in case it sounds like I'm carping/complaining,
let me say at the outset that I had a good time, I found the kids
delightful in their trying so hard, and the food was mostly good.

I wish you wouldn't abbreviate the Culinary Institute of America as
the CIA. Corked wines might be useful to the real CIA. My nephew
passed out after drinking some wine (provided by his mother) that was
only slightly corked.


It depends upon your viewpoint of which is the "real" CIA. Is it the
one that does covert operations in other countries, carries out
assassinations, promotes wars and insurrections, or is it the one that
attempts to educate the culinary professionals of the future?


I would prefer to think of the later choice as being "real."


In the population as a whole, I suspect 99% have never heard of the
Culinary Institute of America but know the CIA is the spy agency. That's
real enough even if the Culinary Institute does more real good :-)


Quite true. However are the readership of alt.food.wine representative of
the "population as a whole" or are they a more sophisticated and
knowledgeable subset because of their interest in wine and associated
food? ;-)

Godzilla
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Old 31-01-2010, 11:49 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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"Godzilla Lizard" wrote........

.......much snipping.......

I wish you wouldn't abbreviate the Culinary Institute of America as
the CIA.


It depends upon your viewpoint of which is the "real" CIA. Is it the
one that does covert operations in other countries, carries out
assassinations, promotes wars and insurrections, or is it the one that
attempts to educate the culinary professionals of the future?


I would prefer to think of the later choice as being "real."


In the population as a whole, I suspect 99% have never heard of the
Culinary Institute of America but know the CIA is the spy agency. That's
real enough even if the Culinary Institute does more real good :-)


Quite true. However are the readership of alt.food.wine representative of
the "population as a whole" or are they a more sophisticated and
knowledgeable subset because of their interest in wine and associated
food? ;-)


Perhaps the American readership may associate the acronym so - however, I
would suggest that most 99.99% of "foreigners" (even the most ardent of
wine & foodies) would automatically think that Dale was supping with
spies!!!

I know, from the subject line, that was my initial impression.

Of course, Canadians may think DaleW was dining at the Calgary International
Airport, while followers of Dr. Who would be justified in thinking that he
was being hosted by the Celestial Intervention Agency.

--

st.helier


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Old 01-02-2010, 05:17 AM posted to alt.food.wine
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On Jan 30, 10:32*am, DaleW wrote:
Some friends asked us if we would join them for dinner at the St
Andrews Cafe at the Culinary Institute of American in Hyde Park. I
hurried home from work and we drove north. arriving just in time. *My
first time on this campus (quite nice and collegial, though the route
from parking to restaurants could be better defined)

This evening was part of their dinner series, the theme was Slow &
Savory Cooking. Just in case it sounds like I'm carping/complaining,
let me say at the outset that I had a good time, I found the kids
delightful in their trying so hard, and the food was mostly good.


We had our first CuIAm (!) meal a month back, at their lowest-level
restaurant (St. Andrew's cafe). Nice selection of wines by the glass,
very reasonable prices, and I echo Dale's comments on both the staff
and (most of) the food; but we sent back both of our initial glasses
too. No problems on replacement - other than increased anxiety for
the poor server - but I wonder whether there's some possible cause in
their storage??

It's only about an hour south from us, so we'll likely go back; fun
place to visit.
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Old 01-02-2010, 03:16 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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On Jan 31, 10:15*am, "James Silverton"
wrote:
*DaleW *wrote *on Sun, 31 Jan 2010 06:54:03 -0800 (PST):





On Jan 30, 12:47 pm, "James Silverton"
wrote:
*DaleW *wrote *on Sat, 30 Jan 2010 07:32:58 -0800 (PST):


This evening was part of their dinner series, the theme was
Slow & Savory Cooking. Just in case it sounds like I'm
carping/complaining, let me say at the outset that I had a
good time, I found the kids delightful in their trying so
hard, and the food was mostly good.


I wish you wouldn't abbreviate the Culinary Institute of
America as the CIA. Corked wines might be useful to the real
CIA. My nephew passed out after drinking some wine (provided
by his mother) that was only slightly corked.


Are you saying he passed out because it was corked?!?!?


That's what the evidence seems to suggest! His mother and I drank a
glass or two with dinner. Needless to say, he didn't.

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not


Strange, I've never heard of a physical effect (other than aromatic)
of TCA


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