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Old 15-01-2006, 08:58 PM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.food.vegan,talk.politics.animals
Ron
 
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Default If I Had $40 Million

From: "Robert Cohen" [email protected]
Date: Sun Jan 15, 2006 2:12 pm
Subject: If I Had $40 Million



If I Had $40 Million

Last week (December 28, 2005), Ingrid Newkirk, the founder
and director of the People for the Ethical Treatment of
Animals (PETA) was in Bethlehem (Palestine) on her
well-financed personal world tour.

Dollar for dollar, how many camels or donkeys did she save?
How much more peace is there in the world these days after
your donations enabled Ingrid to travel from her Virginia
home base to the holy land to make asses of her contributors?

In 2003, PETA enjoyed a budget of $16,414,174. In 2003,
PETA's sister organization, Physicians Committee for
Responsible Medicine (PCRM) received $2,667,912 in donations.
What have they done with the money? Can you see the results?

Last year, PETA and PCRM found that their budgets jumped
from just under $20 million in 2003 to over $40 million.
God bless their ability to generate funding. So what if more
animals per capita are being eaten by Americans? While PETA
euthanizes healthy shelter dogs and cats in the back of their
killing van, people continue to eat more meat and PETA continues
to raise more money by lulling consumers into a false sense of
believing that animals are treated better. That they are not
is inconsequential to the bottom line. Animal rights business
is better than ever!

The system is running away from the once good people whose
first priority is to now keep their well-oiled money making
machinery in prime working order.

Here is the formula for animal rights success. Raise one million
dollars. Invest half of that to hire more people to raise more
money to promise to help more animals. The second round, raise
two million. Invest one-million to hire more employees and
churn mailing lists to raise more money. Buy Farm Sanctuary's
mailing list. Yes, it's for sale. Actually, it's for rent. You
can use the list just once before you must pay the fee again.
This time, raise four million dollars. Hire more activists to
work within your organization. Assign them the task of gathering
names and addresses so that your organization can derive income
by renting lists. Next round, raise eight million dollars.
Throw charity functions on each coast of the United States. Bring
celebrities along and award them imaginary plaques for their
imaginary work in the animal rights movement. Give them a standing
ovation and ask them to pose naked and say a few nasty words
about fur. Include details of celebrity events in your next mailing.
Be sure to include details of how veal calves were once abused
in crates 20 years ago, and represent that this is the state of
affairs today. The next young person who approaches me and says
"...and calves are kept in crates so small, they cannot turn
around..." will get a stern lecture on Farm Sancturary's mailings
as they apply to lies and deception.

Of course, you'll be guaranteed to raise even more funds by use of
lies and clever marketing tactics. And for what?
What have we in the AR movement become? Phonies? Liars?
Only in it for the money folk who have lost their direction,
and now call money raising their number one activity and priority?

What has PETA or other organizations done lately for the animals?

If I had one-tenth of their budget, there would be 100 million
more vegetarians in America. Of course, that would mean that PETA
is no longer needed, right? That ain't ever gonna happen. They
cannot afford to that that mistake.

Ask yourself two questions. First, other than their continuing
solicitations to your mailbox for more funds, have you heard
anything from or about PETA lately? Second question. Has PETA
changed that which is evil or offensive in this world, or have
they become a part of it?

Is it just PETA? Absolutely not. Money seems to universally corrupt.
A few years ago, there was a settlement to the famous McDonalds
burger chain lawsuit. It seems that french-fried potatoes were
cooked in animal fat. Millions of dollars were distributed to do-
nothing vegetarian organizations. One such group's main contribution
to the so-called movement is a once per-year summer festival in
Pennsylvania to which the same 300 or so people show up every
year to eat raw red potatoes and unripened fruit. Another recipient
hosts a yearly vegetarian Thanksgiving meal at a New Jersey
restaurant.

Millions of dollars in hush money, paid to those who hope for a
yearly stipend. While one group fought another two years ago amid
much publicity (and depositions), have you heard even a hint about
how any of these dollars were spent? Neither have I, and I've been
searching real hard. Perhaps if I had a million, I could do my
investigative work from a lounge chair on a beach in Aruba.

Robert Cohen
http://www.slaughterhousecam.com


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Old 15-01-2006, 10:24 PM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.food.vegan,talk.politics.animals
Glorfindel
 
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Default If I Had $40 Million

Ron wrote:

snip

In 2003, PETA enjoyed a budget of $16,414,174. In 2003,
PETA's sister organization, Physicians Committee for
Responsible Medicine (PCRM) received $2,667,912 in donations.
What have they done with the money? Can you see the results?


Yes, actually, I can.

I can't see why people insist on dumping on PETA. I've been
a member since 1984, and in the years since then, PETA
has been very important in bringing issues of animal welfare
in front of the public, in suggesting alternatives to things
like dissection in school, in providing funding and volunteer
effort in crises like Katrina and other natural disasters, and
in ongoing programs like providing shelters for outdoor dogs.
PETA has been central in making the issues visible, from
medical lab abuses to abuses of farm animals raised for large
corporations, to anti-fur messages, and many more. They are a
populist organization, not a scholarly one, and they make no
pretense to be anything other than an activist group. More
extreme organizations and individuals criticize them, but they
are the basic organization that has brought animal welfare/
animal rights (less so than in earlier years) to public attention.
They are visible, they make the issues visible, and they have been
a major, major factor in bringing hard animal welfare to a
position where it is discussed in mainstream media. They have real
clout, and they have made changes. They're not perfect, but
what organization is?

snip
Buy Farm Sanctuary's
mailing list. Yes, it's for sale. Actually, it's for rent.


That's reasonable. People who contribute to Farm Sanctuary
will probably also be interested in PETA -- if they don't
know about PETA already (which I doubt). I belong to both,
and contribute to both. Most groups work this way -- and
PETA is certainly much less obnoxious than some of the
charities which have obviously gotten my name off another
charity's membership list.

snip

If I had one-tenth of their budget, there would be 100 million
more vegetarians in America.


Really? Prove it. PETA started with 2 organizers and a minuscule
budget. If you can do better, show us. Then maybe I'll contribute
to *your* organization.

snip

Ask yourself two questions. First, other than their continuing
solicitations to your mailbox for more funds, have you heard
anything from or about PETA lately?


Oh, yes. All the time.

Second question. Has PETA
changed that which is evil or offensive in this world,


Some of it.

snip
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Old 16-01-2006, 04:32 AM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.food.vegan,talk.politics.animals
SlipperySlope
 
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Default If I Had $40 Million

Glorfindel wrote:

Ron wrote:

snip

In 2003, PETA enjoyed a budget of $16,414,174. In 2003,
PETA's sister organization, Physicians Committee for
Responsible Medicine (PCRM) received $2,667,912 in donations.
What have they done with the money? Can you see the results?



Yes, actually, I can.

I can't see why people insist on dumping on PETA.


Because they're a bunch of grandstanding,
self-promoting extremists who are only exploiting
animal welfare issues as a way of seeing themselves in
the media.
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Old 16-01-2006, 11:56 PM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.food.vegan,talk.politics.animals
Ron
 
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Default If I Had $40 Million


SlipperySlope wrote:
Glorfindel wrote:

Ron wrote:

snip

In 2003, PETA enjoyed a budget of $16,414,174. In 2003,
PETA's sister organization, Physicians Committee for
Responsible Medicine (PCRM) received $2,667,912 in donations.
What have they done with the money? Can you see the results?



Yes, actually, I can.

I can't see why people insist on dumping on PETA.


Because they're a bunch of grandstanding,
self-promoting extremists who are only exploiting
animal welfare issues as a way of seeing themselves in
the media.



PETA didn't start out that way. Hopefully they will change back to what
they once were.



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Old 17-01-2006, 02:53 AM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.food.vegan,talk.politics.animals
[email protected]
 
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Default If I Had $40 Million

On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 02:35:20 GMT, John Wesley wrote:

In article , says...
Ron wrote:



Yeah PETA was picking up puppies for people in Virginia last year and
instead of saving them smothered them and put them in a dumpster. They
were caught by local police and it made the local paper. Never made
National News. They don't really want to save pet type animals.


They want to eliminate them:
__________________________________________________ _______
"Pet ownership is an absolutely abysmal situation brought about
by human manipulation." -- Ingrid Newkirk, national director,
People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PeTA), Just Like Us?
Toward a Nation of Animal Rights" (symposium), Harper's, August
1988, p. 50.

"Let us allow the dog to disappear from our brick and concrete
jungles--from our firesides, from the leather nooses and chains
by which we enslave it." --John Bryant, Fettered Kingdoms: An
Examination of A Changing Ethic (Washington, DC: People for the
Ethical Treatment of Animals (PeTA), 1982), p. 15.

"The cat, like the dog, must disappear... We should cut the
domestic cat free from our dominance by neutering, neutering, and
more neutering, until our pathetic version of the cat ceases to
exist." --John Bryant, Fettered Kingdoms: An Examination of A
Changing Ethic (Washington, DC: People for the Ethical Treatment
of Animals (PeTA), 1982), p. 15.

http://www.acs.ucalgary.ca/~powlesla...ights/pets.txt
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
and people who want to promote decent AW for domestic animals
should keep that in mind, much as "aras" apparently do *not!* want
them to:
__________________________________________________ _______
From: "Dutch"
Message-ID:

wrote

AW means better lives for animals. "AR" means the elimination of
farm animals, and as much as you obviously want to believe they're
the same thing, they are completely different objectives.


Shut the **** up you stupid ****ing moron. Do the world a favour and go blow
your stupid ****ing head off with the biggest ****ing gun you can find.
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
They
just use the money for other things. I'd give to the ASPCA if it were
me. I used to have a copy of the article if I can find it I'll post it.


Please do. Here are some that are related to the same thing:
__________________________________________________ _______
From July 1998 through the end of 2003, PETA killed over 10,000 dogs, cats,
and other "companion animals" -- at its Norfolk, Virginia headquarters. That's
more than five defenseless animals every day. Not counting the dogs and
cats PETA spayed and neutered, the group put to death over 85 percent of
the animals it took in during 2003 alone. And its angel-of-death pattern shows
no sign of changing.

http://www.petakillsanimals.com/petaKillsAnimals.cfm
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
__________________________________________________ _______
[...]
According to the Associated Press (AP) PETA killed 1325 dogs and cats
in Norfolk last year. That was more than half the number of animals is
took in during that period. According to Virginian-Pilot Reporter, Kerry
Dougherty, the execution rate at PETA's "shelter" far exceeds that of the
local Norfolk SPCA shelter where only a third of animals taken in are
"put down."
[...]
http://www.iwmc.org/newsletter/2000/2000-08g.htm
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
__________________________________________________ _______
Web posted Friday, April 27, 2001
State Veterinarian, PETA Head Differ On Outbreak
[...]
On Thursday, Ingrid Newkirk, president of People for the Ethical Treatment
of Animals, renewed her claim that an outbreak of foot-and-mouth disease
in the United States would benefit herds by sparing them from a tortured
existence and the slaughterhouse.

A PETA spokesman said it's inconceivable that anyone would fail to see
the sense of Newkirk's statements, which have rankled politicians and
livestock farmers from Texas to Canada.

[...]
In a telephone interview from Richmond, Va., Newkirk reiterated her
hope that foot-and-mouth -- which has ravaged herds in Europe -- reaches
U.S. shores.

''It's a peculiar and disturbing thing to say, but it would be less than truthful
if I pretended otherwise,'' she said.

People would be better off without meat because it is tied to a host of
ailments, Newkirk said. And animals would benefit because the current
means of raising and slaughtering livestock are ''grotesquely cruel from
start to finish.''
[...]
http://www.pressanddakotan.com/stori...427010026.html
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
I wouldn't give PETA my surplus dog poop.

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Old 17-01-2006, 04:12 AM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.food.vegan,talk.politics.animals
Glorfindel
 
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Default If I Had $40 Million

Ron wrote:

SlipperySlope wrote:


snip

Because they're a bunch of grandstanding,
self-promoting extremists who are only exploiting
animal welfare issues as a way of seeing themselves in
the media.


PETA didn't start out that way.


snip

And they are not that way now. There are a lot easier ways
to get money and media attention, if that is what you
actually want.
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Old 17-01-2006, 04:27 AM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.food.vegan,talk.politics.animals
Glorfindel
 
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Default If I Had $40 Million

[email protected] wrote:

snip
From July 1998 through the end of 2003, PETA killed over 10,000 dogs, cats,
and other "companion animals" -- at its Norfolk, Virginia headquarters. That's
more than five defenseless animals every day. Not counting the dogs and
cats PETA spayed and neutered, the group put to death over 85 percent of
the animals it took in during 2003 alone.


snip

To evaluate this data, one would have to know the condition of the
animals involved. All humane groups euthanize animals, or they
turn over the ones who must be euthanized to other groups which do
it for them. Euthanasia is sometimes the most respectful and
humane thing one can do for an animal -- or a human. Since PETA
is often a last resort, I doubt they get many healthy adoptable
animals. They do rescue many, and they do the best they can for
the animals under their care, but sometimes the best they can do is
provide a humane death.

snip
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Old 17-01-2006, 05:47 AM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.food.vegan,talk.politics.animals
SlipperySlope
 
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Default If I Had $40 Million

Karen Winter lied:
Ron wrote:

SlipperySlope wrote:



snip

Because they're a bunch of grandstanding,
self-promoting extremists who are only exploiting
animal welfare issues as a way of seeing themselves in
the media.



PETA didn't start out that way.



snip

And they are not that way now.


Yes, they are. That's why there *always* is a huge
element of outrageousness to every public act they
undertake.
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Old 17-01-2006, 05:48 AM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.food.vegan,talk.politics.animals
SlipperySlope
 
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Default If I Had $40 Million

Karen Winter lied:

[email protected] wrote:

snip

From July 1998 through the end of 2003, PETA killed over 10,000 dogs,
cats, and other "companion animals" -- at its Norfolk, Virginia
headquarters. That's more than five defenseless animals every day. Not
counting the dogs and cats PETA spayed and neutered, the group put to
death over 85 percent of the animals it took in during 2003 alone.



snip

To evaluate this data, one would have to know the condition of the
animals involved.


No. *All* you need to know is they have *never*
adopted out any pets. They don't believe in it; they
believe in killing them all.


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Old 17-01-2006, 02:29 PM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.food.vegan,talk.politics.animals
Glorfindel
 
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Default If I Had $40 Million

SlipperySlope wrote:

snip

*All* you need to know is they have *never* adopted out any pets.
They don't believe in it; they believe in killing them all.



That is absolutely false, as reading any of their literature makes
clear, and their track record with rescued animals. You are either
grossly ignorant or deliberately lying.

The ultimate goal of animal rights organizations is indeed
to end the pet trade and allow animals to live free of human
domination, which is a form of slavery. But that *never*
involves killing of existing animals, except in cases of
euthanasia where death is to the benefit of the animal. It
*always* means preventing existing "pet" animals from breeding
new generations. PETA has much in its publications about
proper care of existing companion animal, including an entire
book Ingrid Newkirk has written about care of companion cats.
PETA is also involved in a variety of outreach and rescue
programs for companion animals.


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Old 17-01-2006, 11:38 PM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.food.vegan,talk.politics.animals
John Wesley
 
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Default If I Had $40 Million

In article , says...
SlipperySlope wrote:

snip

*All* you need to know is they have *never* adopted out any pets.
They don't believe in it; they believe in killing them all.



That is absolutely false, as reading any of their literature makes
clear,


Thier record is clear. They Euthanise 85% that come in. Our local
Animal Control has much a better record than that.

and their track record with rescued animals. You are either
grossly ignorant or deliberately lying.

The ultimate goal of animal rights organizations is indeed
to end the pet trade and allow animals to live free of human
domination,


They would get deseases and die.

which is a form of slavery.


You are totally insane. My dog doesn't pick cotton for free.

But that *never*
involves killing of existing animals


Yes it does. Volunteers were convicted of smothering puppies in
Virginia.

, except in cases of
euthanasia where death is to the benefit of the animal. It
*always* means preventing existing "pet" animals from breeding
new generations. PETA has much in its publications about
proper care of existing companion animal, including an entire
book Ingrid Newkirk has written about care of companion cats.
PETA is also involved in a variety of outreach and rescue
programs for companion animals.



PETA is evil. They kill pets. They want to turn the world vegetarian.
That is there real goal. They care nothing about pets.

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Old 18-01-2006, 02:54 PM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.food.vegan,talk.politics.animals
Glorfindel
 
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Default If I Had $40 Million

John Wesley wrote:
In article , says...


SlipperySlope wrote:


snip


*All* you need to know is they have *never* adopted out any pets.
They don't believe in it; they believe in killing them all.


That is absolutely false, as reading any of their literature makes
clear,


Thier record is clear. They Euthanise 85% that come in. Our local
Animal Control has much a better record than that.


Which animals are turned in/picked up by your local shelter vs those
turned in to PETA? PETA is not primarily a shelter organization;
that is not their main purpose.

and their track record with rescued animals. You are either
grossly ignorant or deliberately lying.


The ultimate goal of animal rights organizations is indeed
to end the pet trade and allow animals to live free of human
domination,


They would get deseases and die.


So do humans. Do you approve of human slavery? (And, BTW,
do you have any evidence that human slaves in general
receive better health care than free humans?)

which is a form of slavery.


snip

But that *never*
involves killing of existing animals


Yes it does. Volunteers were convicted of smothering puppies in
Virginia.


I don't believe it.

snip

, except in cases of
euthanasia where death is to the benefit of the animal. It
*always* means preventing existing "pet" animals from breeding
new generations. PETA has much in its publications about
proper care of existing companion animal, including an entire
book Ingrid Newkirk has written about care of companion cats.
PETA is also involved in a variety of outreach and rescue
programs for companion animals.


PETA is evil. They kill pets.


No, but they may euthanize animals in appropriate circumstances,
as do *all* animal-care organizations. If you disapprove of
PETA's criteria for euthanization, then criticize the guardians
who turned in animals to them.

They want to turn the world vegetarian.


Absolutely. So do I.

That is there real goal. They care nothing about pets.


They actually care a great deal about companion animals, as well as
all animals. One of their latest publications details a number
their programs, which include mobile spay/neuter vans, a program
to provide warm doghouses and bedding to outdoor dogs of poor
people, an article on the bad aspects of so-called "no kill
shelters", their efforts in helping companion animals during
Katrina, their program against mulesing sheep, a program to
help working bullocks, donkeys, camels, ponies and horses in
India with vet and welfare supplies, and several pages on good products
for companion animals, including Newkirk's book on _250 Things
You Can Do To Make Your Cat Adore You_.

Why don't you criticize factory farm organizations? They kill
100 per cent of the animals they hold, one way or the other,
after keeping them in very inhumane conditions.
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Old 19-01-2006, 12:52 AM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.food.vegan,talk.politics.animals
John Wesley
 
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Default If I Had $40 Million

In article , says...
John Wesley wrote:
In article ,
says...

SlipperySlope wrote:


snip


*All* you need to know is they have *never* adopted out any pets.
They don't believe in it; they believe in killing them all.


That is absolutely false, as reading any of their literature makes
clear,


Thier record is clear. They Euthanise 85% that come in. Our local
Animal Control has much a better record than that.


Which animals are turned in/picked up by your local shelter vs those
turned in to PETA? PETA is not primarily a shelter organization;
that is not their main purpose.



Then why do they take in animals and put 85% of them to sleep. This is
there own reported number.

and their track record with rescued animals. You are either
grossly ignorant or deliberately lying.


The ultimate goal of animal rights organizations is indeed
to end the pet trade and allow animals to live free of human
domination,


They would get deseases and die.


So do humans. Do you approve of human slavery?


Again my dog does no work for me. He picks no cotton. How is he a
slave. He has better medical care than I do. He has a wonerful bed to
sleep in inside a heated house. He eats all the food and treats he
wants. Anyone who compares that to slavery is a certified nut case and
needs to have some mental help.

(And, BTW,
do you have any evidence that human slaves in general
receive better health care than free humans?)


That has nothing to do with the discussion.

which is a form of slavery.


snip

But that *never*
involves killing of existing animals


Yes it does. Volunteers were convicted of smothering puppies in
Virginia.


I don't believe it.


I have the article around here somewhere. Its on the net. Its common
knowledge to anyone that cares. Its in the Virginia Court records.
snip



Why don't you criticize factory farm organizations? They kill
100 per cent of the animals they hold, one way or the other,
after keeping them in very inhumane conditions.


Because I like to eat them animals. They taste goooood!!!!!!!!! My dog
does too!
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Old 19-01-2006, 01:31 AM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.food.vegan,talk.politics.animals
Glorfindel
 
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Default If I Had $40 Million

John Wesley wrote:

In article , says...


snip

Which animals are turned in/picked up by your local shelter vs those
turned in to PETA? PETA is not primarily a shelter organization;
that is not their main purpose.


Then why do they take in animals


Because the animals need to be removed from their existing situation.

and put 85% of them to sleep. This is
there own reported number.


Because the animals would be better off humanely euthanized
than in their existing condition.

snip

They would get deseases and die.


So do humans. Do you approve of human slavery?


Again my dog does no work for me. He picks no cotton.


Because you do not assign him any. If you did, he
could not refuse, or you could punish him. Many
dogs *do* work.

How is he a
slave.


He is your chattel property under the law. You have
legal authority to do almost anything you want to him,
short of what is seen as "unnecessary" cruelty ( similar laws
applied to human slaves). You have the legal authority
to have him killed if you wish. You can dispose of him
to any other person by sale, bequest, or gift. How is he
not a slave?

He has better medical care than I do. He has a wonerful bed to
sleep in inside a heated house. He eats all the food and treats he
wants. Anyone who compares that to slavery is a certified nut case and
needs to have some mental help.


Some slave concubines were similarly cherished and cared for.
How a slave is treated has nothing to do with his legal/social
status as a slave. It is your choice to treat him well or chain
him in the back yard.

snip

Yes it does. Volunteers were convicted of smothering puppies in
Virginia.


I don't believe it.


I have the article around here somewhere. Its on the net.


where. And who were these "volunteers"?

snip

Why don't you criticize factory farm organizations? They kill
100 per cent of the animals they hold, one way or the other,
after keeping them in very inhumane conditions.


Because I like to eat them animals. They taste goooood!!!!!!!!! My dog
does too!


Some people like to eat dogs. If you lived in a culture where that
was common, you could do the same, because your dog, like a chicken
cow or pig, is your property. It is a cultural choice which species
are food, and which "pets". There is no rational basis for the
choice.




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