My girlfriend's mother gave us a tin of Keemun that she got when they
were living in Taiwan. It's at least 35 years old. To say it was
outstanding would be the great grandmother of all understatements, at
least for my unpracticed palate.

It's labeled as "Keemun Black Tea", and the manufacturer label is "China
National Native Produce & Animal By-Products Import & Export Corporation
Shanghai Tea Branch".

Considering what I've read about the Chinese tea industry going
downhill, should I even try to find more of this tea?

Where might I find a particularly good Keemun?


Thanks in advance,
AP

On Jun 8, 5:36 am, Alan Petrillo > wrote:
> My girlfriend's mother gave us a tin of Keemun that she got when they
> were living in Taiwan. It's at least 35 years old. To say it was
> outstanding would be the great grandmother of all understatements, at
> least for my unpracticed palate.
>
> It's labeled as "Keemun Black Tea", and the manufacturer label is "China
> National Native Produce & Animal By-Products Import & Export Corporation
> Shanghai Tea Branch".
>
> Considering what I've read about the Chinese tea industry going
> downhill, should I even try to find more of this tea?
>
> Where might I find a particularly good Keemun?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> AP

Upton has about 5 Keemuns and about 15 similar tasting teas and mixed
Keemans. Their samples might help you find what's closest to your
desire. Look for the buyer comments. Toci

I wouldn't necessarily throw it out. You can compare it with what you
get. You might have something special. In Chinatown these days it is
called QiMen or QiHong for penny/gram. You'll still see Keemun used.
The websites carry the select grades which you might like better
especially if you drink it straight. I stay with the cheap stuff
because I don't drink it often.

Jim

PS We usually say CNNP for short.

Alan Petrillo wrote:
> My girlfriend's mother gave us a tin of Keemun that she got when they
> were living in Taiwan. It's at least 35 years old. To say it was
> outstanding would be the great grandmother of all understatements, at
> least for my unpracticed palate.
>
> It's labeled as "Keemun Black Tea", and the manufacturer label is "China
> National Native Produce & Animal By-Products Import & Export Corporation
> Shanghai Tea Branch".
>
> Considering what I've read about the Chinese tea industry going
> downhill, should I even try to find more of this tea?
>
> Where might I find a particularly good Keemun?
>
>
> Thanks in advance,
> AP

On Jun 8, 6:36 am, Alan Petrillo > wrote:
> My girlfriend's mother gave us a tin of Keemun that she got when they
> were living in Taiwan. It's at least 35 years old. To say it was
> outstanding would be the great grandmother of all understatements, at
> least for my unpracticed palate.
>
> It's labeled as "Keemun Black Tea", and the manufacturer label is "China
> National Native Produce & Animal By-Products Import & Export Corporation
> Shanghai Tea Branch".
>
> Considering what I've read about the Chinese tea industry going
> downhill, should I even try to find more of this tea?
>
> Where might I find a particularly good Keemun?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> AP

Wow, 35 year old Keemun... that might have other... magical properties
by now or just be stale. I have actually found a fairly well sealed
packet of black tea that was about 5 years old and it still brewed a
pretty good cup... never 35 though. That thing went "Antique" 10 years
ago.

I'd try some samples from an online source, I've found cheaper Keemun
to be hit or miss with many more misses than hits. Every now and then
you'll hit a winner. Uptons, teaspring, and shops like that are
probably a good starting place.

- Dominic

toci wrote:
[snip]
> Upton has about 5 Keemuns and about 15 similar tasting teas and mixed
> Keemans. Their samples might help you find what's closest to your
> desire. Look for the buyer comments. Toci
>

Cool, thanks.


AP

Space Cowboy wrote:
> I wouldn't necessarily throw it out.

Throw it out? Good grief no! It was nectar!

> You can compare it with what you
> get. You might have something special. In Chinatown these days it is
> called QiMen or QiHong for penny/gram. You'll still see Keemun used.
> The websites carry the select grades which you might like better
> especially if you drink it straight. I stay with the cheap stuff
> because I don't drink it often.

Thanks for the tip.


AP

Dominic T. wrote:
> On Jun 8, 6:36 am, Alan Petrillo > wrote:
>> My girlfriend's mother gave us a tin of Keemun that she got when they
>> were living in Taiwan. It's at least 35 years old. To say it was
>> outstanding would be the great grandmother of all understatements, at
>> least for my unpracticed palate.
>>
>> It's labeled as "Keemun Black Tea", and the manufacturer label is "China
>> National Native Produce & Animal By-Products Import & Export Corporation
>> Shanghai Tea Branch".
>>
>> Considering what I've read about the Chinese tea industry going
>> downhill, should I even try to find more of this tea?
>>
>> Where might I find a particularly good Keemun?
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>> AP
>
> Wow, 35 year old Keemun... that might have other... magical properties
> by now or just be stale.

I expected it to be stale, and was thoroughly amazed when it wasn't. Or
maybe just something magical had happened to it. ;->

> I have actually found a fairly well sealed
> packet of black tea that was about 5 years old and it still brewed a
> pretty good cup... never 35 though. That thing went "Antique" 10 years
> ago.

This was in a Japanned tin that was sealed with lacquer, so that might
have had something to do with it.

> I'd try some samples from an online source, I've found cheaper Keemun
> to be hit or miss with many more misses than hits. Every now and then
> you'll hit a winner. Uptons, teaspring, and shops like that are
> probably a good starting place.
>
> - Dominic

Thanks, Dominic.

I had a feeling that if anyone in the NG had an idea you would.

BTW: I wish you good luck in your search for fishy tasting green tea.
When you find some you may have my share of it, as I can't stand the
stuff. Further proof that everyone's taste is different. Wouldn't the
world be so boring otherwise?


AP

On 2007-06-08, Alan Petrillo > wrote:
> Space Cowboy wrote:
>> I wouldn't necessarily throw it out.
>
> Throw it out? Good grief no! It was nectar!

I think he meant the tin, for when you go hunting for more.


N.

Natarajan Krishnaswami wrote:
> On 2007-06-08, Alan Petrillo > wrote:
>> Space Cowboy wrote:
>>> I wouldn't necessarily throw it out.
>> Throw it out? Good grief no! It was nectar!
>
> I think he meant the tin, for when you go hunting for more.

Ah. Indeed.


AP

On Jun 8, 3:36 am, Alan Petrillo > wrote:
> My girlfriend's mother gave us a tin of Keemun that she got when they
> were living in Taiwan. It's at least 35 years old. To say it was
> outstanding would be the great grandmother of all understatements, at
> least for my unpracticed palate.
>
> It's labeled as "Keemun Black Tea", and the manufacturer label is "China
> National Native Produce & Animal By-Products Import & Export Corporation
> Shanghai Tea Branch".
>
> Considering what I've read about the Chinese tea industry going
> downhill, should I even try to find more of this tea?
>
> Where might I find a particularly good Keemun?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> AP
I've had wonderful Keemun Hao Ya A from Teaspring (China), and from
Imperial Tea Court and from Jing's (China). Any of these are worth the
buy.
Chado in Los Angeles all has a very tasty Keemun.
I prefer chocaolately, malty complex flavour in this tea and any of
these, although I do prefer Teaspring's, are excellent.
Shen

Shen wrote:
> On Jun 8, 3:36 am, Alan Petrillo > wrote:
>> My girlfriend's mother gave us a tin of Keemun that she got when they
>> were living in Taiwan. It's at least 35 years old. To say it was
>> outstanding would be the great grandmother of all understatements, at
>> least for my unpracticed palate.
>>
>> It's labeled as "Keemun Black Tea", and the manufacturer label is "China
>> National Native Produce & Animal By-Products Import & Export Corporation
>> Shanghai Tea Branch".
>>
>> Considering what I've read about the Chinese tea industry going
>> downhill, should I even try to find more of this tea?
>>
>> Where might I find a particularly good Keemun?
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>> AP
> I've had wonderful Keemun Hao Ya A from Teaspring (China), and from
> Imperial Tea Court and from Jing's (China). Any of these are worth the
> buy.
> Chado in Los Angeles all has a very tasty Keemun.
> I prefer chocaolately, malty complex flavour in this tea and any of
> these, although I do prefer Teaspring's, are excellent.
> Shen
>

I'll look them up, thanks.


AP

No I meant the leaf especially now since you mentioned it was sealed.
You are sitting on a gold mine in the terms of comparison taste. I
just tried some of my decades old stuff, some marinating in a foil
line bag. Strong aroma, strong taste, bright red liquor which I think
would be the give away if time ravaged. It struck me by just looking
at the dried leaf if any oxidized tea could be stored in a time vault
this one would be a candidate along with fermented teas. It looks
more similar to my fermented black Liuan than typical dark grey
oxidation.

Jim

Natarajan Krishnaswami wrote:
> On 2007-06-08, Alan Petrillo > wrote:
> > Space Cowboy wrote:
> >> I wouldn't necessarily throw it out.
> >
> > Throw it out? Good grief no! It was nectar!
>
> I think he meant the tin, for when you go hunting for more.
>
>
> N.

On Jun 9, 3:35 am, Alan Petrillo > wrote:
> Space Cowboy wrote:
> > I wouldn't necessarily throw it out.
>
> Throw it out? Good grief no! It was nectar!
>

You owe it to us to tell us HOW nectar like it was!

I've had a hongcha of some sort that's 10 years old. Very
interesting, sweet, and fruity. A strange tea, but fun.

MarshalN
http://www.xanga.com/MarshalN

Alan Petrillo > wrote:
>Space Cowboy wrote:
>> I wouldn't necessarily throw it out.
>
>Throw it out? Good grief no! It was nectar!

That same brand of keemun is still available today from the same sources.
Kam Man supermarket in NYC stocks it, for example. But as with any
agricultural product, it will change from harvest to harvest.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Space Cowboy wrote:
> No I meant the leaf especially now since you mentioned it was sealed.
> You are sitting on a gold mine in the terms of comparison taste. I
> just tried some of my decades old stuff, some marinating in a foil
> line bag. Strong aroma, strong taste, bright red liquor which I think
> would be the give away if time ravaged.

Yeah, that's the stuff!

> It struck me by just looking
> at the dried leaf if any oxidized tea could be stored in a time vault
> this one would be a candidate along with fermented teas. It looks
> more similar to my fermented black Liuan than typical dark grey
> oxidation.

I'll have to try some after I work my way through the Keemun samplers I
just got from Upton.


AP

> Jim
>
> Natarajan Krishnaswami wrote:
>> On 2007-06-08, Alan Petrillo > wrote:
>>> Space Cowboy wrote:
>>>> I wouldn't necessarily throw it out.
>>> Throw it out? Good grief no! It was nectar!
>> I think he meant the tin, for when you go hunting for more.
>>
>>
>> N.
>

MarshalN wrote:
> On Jun 9, 3:35 am, Alan Petrillo > wrote:
>> Space Cowboy wrote:
>>> I wouldn't necessarily throw it out.
>> Throw it out? Good grief no! It was nectar!
>>
>
> You owe it to us to tell us HOW nectar like it was!
>
> I've had a hongcha of some sort that's 10 years old. Very
> interesting, sweet, and fruity. A strange tea, but fun.

Well, let's see.

It had a subtle but distinct sweetness. It's aroma was fruity, with a
slightly floral aroma. It had a very strong aroma, and also a strong
flavor, without being tannic. The liquor was bright red, and it always
brewed out nicely clear and clean. There was a very light note of
chocolate in its finish.

Very, _very_ good stuff.

We figured it out, Liz's mom has had this since they lived in Taiwan.
They left Taiwan when Liz was 8, and she's now 43, so this tea was at
least 35 years old. I can honestly say it was the best tea I have ever
had in my life.


AP

Scott Dorsey wrote:
> Alan Petrillo > wrote:
>> Space Cowboy wrote:
>>> I wouldn't necessarily throw it out.
>> Throw it out? Good grief no! It was nectar!
>
> That same brand of keemun is still available today from the same sources.
> Kam Man supermarket in NYC stocks it, for example.

Well, if it's still available then it's findable. Since I work for an
airline I get to travel free, so it might be worth a trip to NYC to find
it, if need be.

> But as with any
> agricultural product, it will change from harvest to harvest.

Indeed. This is the nature of truly natural products, and I wouldn't
have it any other way.



AP

Alan Petrillo > writes:

> Scott Dorsey wrote:
> > Alan Petrillo > wrote:
> >> Space Cowboy wrote:
> >>> I wouldn't necessarily throw it out.
> >> Throw it out? Good grief no! It was nectar!
> > That same brand of keemun is still available today from the same
> > sources. Kam Man supermarket in NYC stocks it, for example.
>
> Well, if it's still available then it's findable. Since I work for an
> airline I get to travel free, so it might be worth a trip to NYC to
> find it, if need be.
>
> > But as with any
> > agricultural product, it will change from harvest to harvest.
>
> Indeed. This is the nature of truly natural products, and I wouldn't
> have it any other way.

Sure. But at the risk of saddening you, let me say that I live in New
York, and I have bought the very tea in Kam Man, though not for
several years now, and it's been nothing special for the last decade
or so.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html

On Jun 8, 12:36 pm, Alan Petrillo > wrote:
> It's labeled as "Keemun Black Tea", and the manufacturer label is "China
> National Native Produce & Animal By-Products Import & Export Corporation
> Shanghai Tea Branch".

Does it resemble those tins they´re selling at teaspring [19 $/100g] ?
http://www.teaspring.com/Keemun-Black-Tea.asp

Shen, is this the Hao Ya you mentioned ?

Karsten [Rose Congue in tazza]

> Considering what I've read about the Chinese tea industry going
> downhill, should I even try to find more of this tea?
>
> Where might I find a particularly good Keemun?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> AP

It is unlikely you will find Qimen of that quality anymore. The newer
higher graded stuff goes pretty high but the quality isn't actually
better.

On Jun 23, 5:05 am, wrote:
> On Jun 8, 12:36 pm, Alan Petrillo > wrote:
>
> > It's labeled as "Keemun Black Tea", and the manufacturer label is "China
> > National Native Produce & Animal By-Products Import & Export Corporation
> > Shanghai Tea Branch".
>
> Does it resemble those tins they´re selling at teaspring [19 $/100g] ?http://www.teaspring.com/Keemun-Black-Tea.asp
>
> Shen, is this the Hao Ya you mentioned ?
>
> Karsten [Rose Congue in tazza]

Hi, Karsten!
No. This is the Hao Ya - http://www.teaspring.com/Keemun-Hao-Ya-A.asp.
No tin.
Shen

On Jun 24, 4:34 am, Shen > wrote:
> On Jun 23, 5:05 am, wrote:
>
> > On Jun 8, 12:36 pm, Alan Petrillo > wrote:
>
> > > It's labeled as "Keemun Black Tea", and the manufacturer label is "China
> > > National Native Produce & Animal By-Products Import & Export Corporation
> > > Shanghai Tea Branch".
>
> > Does it resemble those tins they´re selling at teaspring [19 $/100g] ?http://www.teaspring.com/Keemun-Black-Tea.asp
>
> > Shen, is this the Hao Ya you mentioned ?
>
> > Karsten [Rose Congue in tazza]
>
> Hi, Karsten!
> No. This is the Hao Ya -http://www.teaspring.com/Keemun-Hao-Ya-A.asp.
> No tin.
> Shen

Hi Shen,

thanks, the tin somehow looks like all those cheaper tins you´d get at
asian supermarkets. I just haven´t seen any of these over here, but
that doesn´t mean too much. I´ll rather wait for my next trip to China
to stock up on Keemuns.

Karsten [xy tippy Dian Hong in tazza grande]

On Jun 24, 4:34 am, Shen > wrote:
> On Jun 23, 5:05 am, wrote:
>
> > On Jun 8, 12:36 pm, Alan Petrillo > wrote:
>
> > > It's labeled as "Keemun Black Tea", and the manufacturer label is "China
> > > National Native Produce & Animal By-Products Import & Export Corporation
> > > Shanghai Tea Branch".
>
> > Does it resemble those tins they´re selling at teaspring [19 $/100g] ?http://www.teaspring.com/Keemun-Black-Tea.asp
>
> > Shen, is this the Hao Ya you mentioned ?
>
> > Karsten [Rose Congue in tazza]
>
> Hi, Karsten!
> No. This is the Hao Ya -http://www.teaspring.com/Keemun-Hao-Ya-A.asp.
> No tin.
> Shen

Hi Shen,

thanks, the tin somehow looks like all those cheaper tins you´d get at
asian supermarkets. I just haven´t seen any of these over here, but
that doesn´t mean too much. I´ll rather wait for my next trip to China
to stock up on Keemuns.

Karsten [xy tippy Dian Hong in tazza grande]

On Jun 24, 4:34 am, Shen > wrote:
> On Jun 23, 5:05 am, wrote:
>
> > On Jun 8, 12:36 pm, Alan Petrillo > wrote:
>
> > > It's labeled as "Keemun Black Tea", and the manufacturer label is "China
> > > National Native Produce & Animal By-Products Import & Export Corporation
> > > Shanghai Tea Branch".
>
> > Does it resemble those tins they´re selling at teaspring [19 $/100g] ?http://www.teaspring.com/Keemun-Black-Tea.asp
>
> > Shen, is this the Hao Ya you mentioned ?
>
> > Karsten [Rose Congue in tazza]
>
> Hi, Karsten!
> No. This is the Hao Ya -http://www.teaspring.com/Keemun-Hao-Ya-A.asp.
> No tin.
> Shen

Hi Shen,

thanks, the tin somehow looks like all those cheaper tins you´d get at
asian supermarkets. I just haven´t seen any of these over here, but
that doesn´t mean too much. I´ll rather wait for my next trip to China
to stock up on Keemuns.

Karsten [xy tippy Dian Hong in tazza grande]

Lewis Perin wrote:
> Alan Petrillo > writes:
>
>> Scott Dorsey wrote:
>>> Alan Petrillo > wrote:
>>>> Space Cowboy wrote:
>>>>> I wouldn't necessarily throw it out.
>>>> Throw it out? Good grief no! It was nectar!
>>> That same brand of keemun is still available today from the same
>>> sources. Kam Man supermarket in NYC stocks it, for example.
>> Well, if it's still available then it's findable. Since I work for an
>> airline I get to travel free, so it might be worth a trip to NYC to
>> find it, if need be.
>>
>>> But as with any
>>> agricultural product, it will change from harvest to harvest.
>> Indeed. This is the nature of truly natural products, and I wouldn't
>> have it any other way.
>
> Sure. But at the risk of saddening you, let me say that I live in New
> York, and I have bought the very tea in Kam Man, though not for
> several years now, and it's been nothing special for the last decade
> or so.

A pity indeed.


AP

wrote:
> On Jun 8, 12:36 pm, Alan Petrillo > wrote:
>> It's labeled as "Keemun Black Tea", and the manufacturer label is "China
>> National Native Produce & Animal By-Products Import & Export Corporation
>> Shanghai Tea Branch".
>
> Does it resemble those tins they´re selling at teaspring [19 $/100g] ?
> http://www.teaspring.com/Keemun-Black-Tea.asp
>
> Shen, is this the Hao Ya you mentioned ?

Nope. Not even close.


AP

Shen wrote:
> On Jun 23, 5:05 am, wrote:
>> On Jun 8, 12:36 pm, Alan Petrillo > wrote:
>>
>>> It's labeled as "Keemun Black Tea", and the manufacturer label is "China
>>> National Native Produce & Animal By-Products Import & Export Corporation
>>> Shanghai Tea Branch".
>> Does it resemble those tins they´re selling at teaspring [19 $/100g] ?http://www.teaspring.com/Keemun-Black-Tea.asp
>>
>> Shen, is this the Hao Ya you mentioned ?
>>
>> Karsten [Rose Congue in tazza]
>
> Hi, Karsten!
> No. This is the Hao Ya - http://www.teaspring.com/Keemun-Hao-Ya-A.asp.
> No tin.
> Shen

I got some Hao Ya A from Upton. It's good, but it's not the same stuff.


AP

Mydnight wrote:
>> Considering what I've read about the Chinese tea industry going
>> downhill, should I even try to find more of this tea?
>>
>> Where might I find a particularly good Keemun?
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>> AP
>
> It is unlikely you will find Qimen of that quality anymore. The newer
> higher graded stuff goes pretty high but the quality isn't actually
> better.

<sigh>

Isn't that always the way of things.

:-(


AP

>
> This was in a Japanned tin that was sealed with lacquer, so that might
> have had something to do with it.
>

Undoubtedly so - for long keeping of tea the keys to success a

1. A well made tea - it has to be good quality at the start to end up
good quality after storing!
2. Correctly dried tea - to between 2 and 3% moisture content - must
incorporate a high temperature stage as all residual enzymes must be
"killed"
3. Absence of light - even well dried tea is still photochemically
active and will produce taints when illuminated.
4. An air tight container (tin or poly foil laminate - the container
must not leak (check - most storage tins made for tea are not airtight
at the seams; laminates can be pinholed and while they may not let
water through will allow air (inevitably damp) through)
5. Densely packed tea with minimal headspace (minimal amount of free
air - even tea without enzymes can continue chemical oxidation - leave
some green tea liquor overnight to see the color change). There's no
need for nitrogen or vac packing however, tea will soon scavenge a
small amount of oxygen in a minimal headspace.
6. Hermetically sealed (that means a complete and absolute barrier to
air exchange - if you wouldn't risk storing the pack under water then
you haven't got an hermetic seal)
7. Store cool in an even temperature (temperature change can induce
free water inside the container if the temperature drops - inside the
container tea equilibrates with the air and at 3% tea moisture the air
will have a dew point, albeit low, below which free water condenses).

I have not tried this on a 35 year test basis but recently was looking
for some old "tired" tea for a manufacturing faults class I was
teaching. Seeking this in my oldest tea samples I opened up a pouch
of black tea I had made in Pakistan in 1992. This had been processed
and dried under precise conditions in our miniature tea factory and
packed the same day in a heat sealed polyfoil pouch. Far from being
tired from long storage and despite being 15 years old it proved to be
as fresh, colory and flavorful as the day it was made.

Maybe we should set up Tea Banks - storing examples of our best teas
for the benefit of future generations of tea freaks in the same way
that seed banks are kept against loss of genetic material?

Nigel at Teacraft

I've always maintained that well stored teas are a snapshot of tea
taste frozen in time including the fermented teas. I think time has
taken more of a toll on my tastebuds than my teas.

Jim

PS I enjoy my old teas for the memories as much as the taste.

Nigel wrote:
>
> Maybe we should set up Tea Banks - storing examples of our best teas
> for the benefit of future generations of tea freaks in the same way
> that seed banks are kept against loss of genetic material?
>
> Nigel at Teacraft