A bit of history here to make things interesting:
According to Wikipedia:

The McDonald Brothers business began in 1940, with a restaurant opened by
siblings Dick and Mac McDonald in San Bernardino, California. Their
introduction of the "Speedee Service System" in 1948 established the
principles of the modern fast-food restaurant.

According to my good friend and mentor Victor Rubio, most popular, respected
and well known restaurateur in Tijuana during the WWII years through to his
death in 2004:

"I remember the McDonald brothers coming into my restaurant near the
bullring and inviting me to have a beer with them as they shared their love
of bullfighting and mariachi music during their occasional trips to Tijuana.
This was around 1947, I remember because of the brouhaha around Margaret
Truman's first public singing appearance. Tijuana had been and was still a
huge magnet to Hollywood types, sailors and marines before and after the
war. It was not until sometime in 1955 when I put two and two together,
recalling Dick's penchant for taking notes, that I remembered their telling
me of their observing how a small taco stand could serve so many people in
such a short time that they began experimenting with the idea back at their
San Bernardino restaurant. By 1960 you could not go anywhere in the United
States without finding a nearby McDonald's. Truly an amazing story of how
the fast food concept changed the way Americans eat. All from observing a
trio of uneducated taco stand workers."

Wayne Lundberg wrote:
> A bit of history here to make things interesting:
> According to Wikipedia:
>
> The McDonald Brothers business began in 1940, with a restaurant opened by
> siblings Dick and Mac McDonald in San Bernardino, California. Their
> introduction of the "Speedee Service System" in 1948 established the
> principles of the modern fast-food restaurant.
>
> According to my good friend and mentor Victor Rubio, most popular, respected
> and well known restaurateur in Tijuana during the WWII years through to his
> death in 2004:
>
> "I remember the McDonald brothers coming into my restaurant near the
> bullring and inviting me to have a beer with them as they shared their love
> of bullfighting and mariachi music during their occasional trips to Tijuana.
> This was around 1947, I remember because of the brouhaha around Margaret
> Truman's first public singing appearance. Tijuana had been and was still a
> huge magnet to Hollywood types, sailors and marines before and after the
> war. It was not until sometime in 1955 when I put two and two together,
> recalling Dick's penchant for taking notes, that I remembered their telling
> me of their observing how a small taco stand could serve so many people in
> such a short time that they began experimenting with the idea back at their
> San Bernardino restaurant. By 1960 you could not go anywhere in the United
> States without finding a nearby McDonald's. Truly an amazing story of how
> the fast food concept changed the way Americans eat. All from observing a
> trio of uneducated taco stand workers."
>
I'm trying to figure out who inspired Chili's. Something went very wrong.

"Sonoran Dude" > wrote in message
. ..
> Wayne Lundberg wrote:
>> A bit of history here to make things interesting:
>> According to Wikipedia:
>>
>> The McDonald Brothers business began in 1940, with a restaurant opened by
>> siblings Dick and Mac McDonald in San Bernardino, California. Their
>> introduction of the "Speedee Service System" in 1948 established the
>> principles of the modern fast-food restaurant.
>>

Let us clean this up a bit. (Add) and then Wayne wrote:

>> According to my good friend and mentor Victor Rubio, most popular,
>> respected
>> and well known restaurateur in Tijuana during the WWII years through to
>> his
>> death in 2004:
>>
>> "I remember the McDonald brothers coming into my restaurant near the
>> bullring and inviting me to have a beer with them as they shared their
>> love
>> of bullfighting and mariachi music during their occasional trips to
>> Tijuana.
>> This was around 1947, I remember because of the brouhaha around Margaret
>> Truman's first public singing appearance. Tijuana had been and was still
>> a
>> huge magnet to Hollywood types, sailors and marines before and after the
>> war. It was not until sometime in 1955 when I put two and two together,
>> recalling Dick's penchant for taking notes, that I remembered their
>> telling
>> me of their observing how a small taco stand could serve so many people
>> in
>> such a short time that they began experimenting with the idea back at
>> their
>> San Bernardino restaurant. By 1960 you could not go anywhere in the
>> United
>> States without finding a nearby McDonald's. Truly an amazing story of how
>> the fast food concept changed the way Americans eat. All from observing a
>> trio of uneducated taco stand workers."

I'm sure the MD Corporate HQ would issue a retraction & correct their
history if given the chance, especially when confronted with this conclusive
and overwhelming evidence.
Henry Ford certainly doesn't need anymore credit given to him.

and so we "wonder" how Urban Myths get started

Another (though smaller) competitor :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataburger

they opened aroud the same time but in the other side of the country.

Saludos!

wrote:
> Another (though smaller) competitor :
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataburger
>
> they opened aroud the same time but in the other side of the country.
>
> Saludos!
>

Whataburger is an icon here in Arizona. Back in the day they out
numbered McDonalds. Whataburger prides itself on 100% American Beef and
I think it makes a big difference. I sure it's more like 90% Texas Beef
and probably some other beef to feed the California consumers.
Jalapeno peppers have been on the menu since I can remember. They also
have not caved in to the myth that American consumers prefer the new
plastic coated french fries that most major chains have adopted to cut
down on food shrink.

On May 4, 2:33 am, Sonoran Dude > wrote:

> Whataburger is an icon here in Arizona. Back in the day they out
> numbered McDonalds. Whataburger prides itself on 100% American Beef and
> I think it makes a big difference. I sure it's more like 90% Texas Beef
> and probably some other beef to feed the California consumers.
> Jalapeno peppers have been on the menu since I can remember.

Although I now live in the land of Whataburger, I still miss the New
Mexico chain of Blake's Lotaburger, whose green chile burgers were
pretty darn good for a chain when I lived there. Buns were a little
bit soggy and the green chile was a little sparse the last time or two
I was over to NM, but I will always stop by at least once for old
times sake.

David

John~
wrote:

>
> ...but the *big* deal about Whataburger is that every burger is cooked
> to order from scratch; no heat lamps or warming trays. It takes
> slightly longer than "fast food", but your burger is always fresh and
> made *exactly* the way you want it....

And I credit them for not directly marketing to children. Much of
McDonalds success was built on marketing their poison to children.

dtwright37 wrote:
> On May 4, 2:33 am, Sonoran Dude > wrote:
>
>> Whataburger is an icon here in Arizona. Back in the day they out
>> numbered McDonalds. Whataburger prides itself on 100% American Beef and
>> I think it makes a big difference. I sure it's more like 90% Texas Beef
>> and probably some other beef to feed the California consumers.
>> Jalapeno peppers have been on the menu since I can remember.
>
> Although I now live in the land of Whataburger, I still miss the New
> Mexico chain of Blake's Lotaburger, whose green chile burgers were
> pretty darn good for a chain when I lived there. Buns were a little
> bit soggy and the green chile was a little sparse the last time or two
> I was over to NM, but I will always stop by at least once for old
> times sake.
>
> David
>
We had Blakes in Phoenix. Excellent burger but I think the neighborhood
caught up with them. It was down in an old motel circle district on W.
Mohave that has long since been boarded up.
Lenny's Burger Shop is a small local chain that has that nostalgic
quality of quality grease. Of the national chains I was bummed when
Burger Chef was absorbed by Burger King in the early 70s. Burger Chef
featured a delicious triple bun burger similar to the Big Mac and the
Bob's Big Boy.
The Bonus Jack was another good triple bun burger extinct by corporate
decisions. Jack should bring that one back for old time sake.

On May 4, 2:33 am, Sonoran Dude > wrote:

> Whataburger is an icon here in Arizona. Back in the day they out
> numbered McDonalds.

I must be older than back-in-the-day (not a surprise!) because I don't
remember Whataburger from when I was a student in Tucson in the early
'60s.

The only chains I remember from then were Bob's Big Boy and McD, and
at McD I could get two meager burgers, an order of fries, and a drink,
and still get back a little change from a dollar.

I also spent my few eat-out dollars at a chimichanga lunch-joint near
the campus, and a Chinese place that had an 87-cent "business man's
lunch." :-)

David

"dtwright37" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> On May 4, 2:33 am, Sonoran Dude > wrote:
>
>> Whataburger is an icon here in Arizona. Back in the day they out
>> numbered McDonalds.
>
> I must be older than back-in-the-day (not a surprise!) because I don't
> remember Whataburger from when I was a student in Tucson in the early
> '60s.
>
> The only chains I remember from then were Bob's Big Boy and McD, and
> at McD I could get two meager burgers, an order of fries, and a drink,
> and still get back a little change from a dollar.
>
> I also spent my few eat-out dollars at a chimichanga lunch-joint near
> the campus, and a Chinese place that had an 87-cent "business man's
> lunch." :-)
>
> David


The Original Owl Cafe just outside Socorro heading to the Northern gate to
White Sands MR, was the best Green Chile Cheese Burgers in the world, bar
none. I would go down to WSMR from ABQ 1-2 time a week just to stop and eat
lunch there. I understand it was bought out and moved to ABQ and it is now
Corporate Commissary food on the order of Applebe's, Chili's, Red Robin,
Olive Garden, etc. Better than any of the WhataBurgers which were prety damn
good. Dude , ours W-A-Bs in West Texas served Cherry Peppers instead of
the Jalapenos.

MDs was the home of the 12- 15 cents, LBLB food, little beef on a little
bun. Gut fill was all that was.

I guess it is too hard for a real Mom and Pop eatery to compete with
Marketing dollars, the profit margin in foods leaves little room for error.
Proves it is not Taste but Preception we tend to buy. Marketing Rules!!

dtwright37 wrote:
> On May 4, 2:33 am, Sonoran Dude > wrote:
>
>> Whataburger is an icon here in Arizona. Back in the day they out
>> numbered McDonalds.
>
> I must be older than back-in-the-day (not a surprise!) because I don't
> remember Whataburger from when I was a student in Tucson in the early
> '60s.
>
> The only chains I remember from then were Bob's Big Boy and McD, and
> at McD I could get two meager burgers, an order of fries, and a drink,
> and still get back a little change from a dollar.
>
> I also spent my few eat-out dollars at a chimichanga lunch-joint near
> the campus, and a Chinese place that had an 87-cent "business man's
> lunch." :-)
>
> David
>
I wouldn't know about Tucson, I grew up in Phoenix. We had one Bob's on
Central and Thomas and a McDonalds down the street on Central and Indian
School. Whataburgers were in the burbs. My coherent memory only goes
back to 67. I had a brain infection that keeps me from remembering much
before that.

Gunner wrote:

> The Original Owl Cafe just outside Socorro heading to the Northern gate to
> White Sands MR, was the best Green Chile Cheese Burgers in the world, bar
> none. I would go down to WSMR from ABQ 1-2 time a week just to stop and eat
> lunch there. I understand it was bought out and moved to ABQ and it is now
> Corporate Commissary food on the order of Applebe's, Chili's, Red Robin,
> Olive Garden, etc. Better than any of the WhataBurgers which were prety damn
> good. Dude , ours W-A-Bs in West Texas served Cherry Peppers instead of
> the Jalapenos.
>
> MDs was the home of the 12- 15 cents, LBLB food, little beef on a little
> bun. Gut fill was all that was.
>
> I guess it is too hard for a real Mom and Pop eatery to compete with
> Marketing dollars, the profit margin in foods leaves little room for error.
> Proves it is not Taste but Preception we tend to buy. Marketing Rules!!
>
>

My only WAB experience was in El Paso. I think they may have even had
serranos laying out... All I remember was that they were fresh and
hotter than hell.

I'm a big fan of local joints. Orange County and LA are a who's who of
local grease traps that serve more food than humanly possible to consume
at one sitting. Phoenix had some great local joints but never caught on
to the gigantic portions that SoCal serves up. Tucson has some too but I
haven't made a dent in them yet. I'll keep you posted.

Phoenix has a chain called Pete's Fish and Chips. Pete's claim to fame
was cheap baskets of fish, shrimp, clams and oysters served with a fish
cocktail sauce of 2 parts ketchup and 1 part El Pato Tomato sauce. It
was brilliant.
I love the line in the movie Fast Times at Ridgemont High comparing the
secret sauces of competing fast food joints. It was something like, "Our
secret sauce is 1,000 Island and ketchup the other was ketchup and
mayonaise." Everyone thought that they had the perfect secret sauce by
mixing two bottles of condiments together. I'm a big Whataburger fan
because of the use of good old American Yellow Mustard and super fresh
ingredients letting the burger be the star.

"Gunner" <gunner@ spam.com> wrote in message
...
>
> "dtwright37" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>> On May 4, 2:33 am, Sonoran Dude > wrote:
>>snipped
>
> The Original Owl Cafe just outside Socorro heading to the Northern gate
> to White Sands MR, was the best Green Chile Cheese Burgers in the world,
> bar none. I would go down to WSMR from ABQ 1-2 time a week just to stop
> and eat lunch there. I understand it was bought out and moved to ABQ and
> it is now Corporate Commissary food on the order of Applebe's, Chili's,
> Red Robin, Olive Garden, etc. Better than any of the WhataBurgers which
> were prety damn good. Dude , ours W-A-Bs in West Texas served Cherry
> Peppers instead of the Jalapenos.
>


These Green Chile Cheese Burgers sound good - I'm in Oz so I'm not familiar
with them. I looked them up after your post on a site called Chowhound or
Chow-Hound (can't exacatackly remember) Anyway, it reckons it caters to
both major food groups.

You seem to know your way around Arizono OK - can you tell me from your
experience if there are A-1 GCCBs in the Kingman area? My M-i-L lives there
and we'll be visiting her around Xmas from West Australia and I'd like to
try one of these burgers. (We're going to Las Vegas to experience the
Greatest Light Show On Earth!!!)
ta
Hoges in WA

On May 14, 6:01?am, "Hoges in WA" > wrote:

> These Green Chile Cheese Burgers sound good - I'm in Oz so I'm not familiar
> with them.

Can you get canned Ortega chiles and avocados in Perth?

Mash up a ripe avocado and mix it with a little mayo.

Throw a ground beef patty on the grill or barbie and cook it to taste.

Fry the ortega chile at the same time.

Melt some mozarella?on the patty.

Grill the hamburger bun a bit (don't tell me you don't have hamburger
buns in Oz!)

Slather the avocado on the bun, garnish with sliced onion or
scallions, stack it all together and scarf it down.

Then, the next time you make a green chile burger, try it with one or
two jalapeno peppers.

Hoges in WA > wrote in message
...
[snip]
> can you tell me from your experience if there are
> A-1 GCCBs in the Kingman area?
[snip]

Kingman was an oasis in the middle of a desert and freeway at one
time.

In 2003, the LONE standout restaurant that made the oasis worthy
of a layover was consumed by a larger, more predatory, corporate
entity. In talking with several locals, the parasites were very
systematic. I can't think of one restaurant this isn't owned by a
larger vertically integrated conglomerate. There's nothing there
there but poor service, lousy food, high prices.

Our last trip through Kingman in August 2006 was our last. We'll
take other routes to completely skirt that wasted patch of neon
and asphalt.

The Ranger

"Hoges in WA" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Gunner" <gunner@ spam.com> wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "dtwright37" > wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>>> On May 4, 2:33 am, Sonoran Dude > wrote:
>>>snipped
>>
>> The Original Owl Cafe just outside Socorro heading to the Northern gate
>> to White Sands MR, was the best Green Chile Cheese Burgers in the world,
>> bar none. I would go down to WSMR from ABQ 1-2 time a week just to stop
>> and eat lunch there. I understand it was bought out and moved to ABQ and
>> it is now Corporate Commissary food on the order of Applebe's, Chili's,
>> Red Robin, Olive Garden, etc. Better than any of the WhataBurgers which
>> were prety damn good. Dude , ours W-A-Bs in West Texas served Cherry
>> Peppers instead of the Jalapenos.
>>
>
>
> These Green Chile Cheese Burgers sound good - I'm in Oz so I'm not
> familiar with them. I looked them up after your post on a site called
> Chowhound or Chow-Hound (can't exacatackly remember) Anyway, it reckons
> it caters to both major food groups.
>
> You seem to know your way around Arizono OK - can you tell me from your
> experience if there are A-1 GCCBs in the Kingman area? My M-i-L lives
> there and we'll be visiting her around Xmas from West Australia and I'd
> like to try one of these burgers. (We're going to Las Vegas to experience
> the Greatest Light Show On Earth!!!)
> ta
> Hoges in WA

As usual Booger is attempting to pass himself off as a cook when all he does
is google a food network recipe. He is in CA and taking a Guacamole Burger
and adding a chile, he really doesn't know squat about the Great Southwest.

Here is the true Owl cafe and Bar near Socorro:
http://abqstyle.com/albuquerque_restaurants/000026.html This is not the
chain in Albuquerque, ABQ stole it from these guys. The buger is a bit
different than 20 years ago but you can see the difference in what he is
advocating and what the product actually is. Hatch chiles are the
quantifying difference and I recall a dollop of green chile sauce in those
days.

Here is another link for you to judge various places without my opinion:
http://tinyurl.com/2bxu6b

Kingman,? rely on MIL to find the best places to eat there. I would think
Ranger is correct. I'm sure it has changed since I ran those road, beside I
would save my stomach for Vegas. Back in the day the Mafia ran Vegas there
were $1.99 Prime Rib Dinners with all the fixings and 4-6 $ Champagne
Brunches, half a foot ball field long, from Clods of Beef to various
Seafoods to fresh fruits to Canapes and endless Champagne and OJ. Today the
Legit Theives run it and even at today's much higher prices I would say it
is too good to stop on the Hiway and chance it when you are going to the
Glittery City. Look for coupons and specials, save up for some a special
treat once or twice, do some research first, everyone will have their own
favorite mostly based on spirit or spirits.

Hope you have a good time in our country and let us know if we can assist.

Hoges in WA wrote:
> "Gunner" <gunner@ spam.com> wrote in message
> ...
>> "dtwright37" > wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>>> On May 4, 2:33 am, Sonoran Dude > wrote:
>>> snipped
>> The Original Owl Cafe just outside Socorro heading to the Northern gate
>> to White Sands MR, was the best Green Chile Cheese Burgers in the world,
>> bar none. I would go down to WSMR from ABQ 1-2 time a week just to stop
>> and eat lunch there. I understand it was bought out and moved to ABQ and
>> it is now Corporate Commissary food on the order of Applebe's, Chili's,
>> Red Robin, Olive Garden, etc. Better than any of the WhataBurgers which
>> were prety damn good. Dude , ours W-A-Bs in West Texas served Cherry
>> Peppers instead of the Jalapenos.
>>
>
>
> These Green Chile Cheese Burgers sound good - I'm in Oz so I'm not familiar
> with them. I looked them up after your post on a site called Chowhound or
> Chow-Hound (can't exacatackly remember) Anyway, it reckons it caters to
> both major food groups.
>
> You seem to know your way around Arizono OK - can you tell me from your
> experience if there are A-1 GCCBs in the Kingman area? My M-i-L lives there
> and we'll be visiting her around Xmas from West Australia and I'd like to
> try one of these burgers. (We're going to Las Vegas to experience the
> Greatest Light Show On Earth!!!)
> ta
> Hoges in WA
>
>
Too bad your customs agents won't let you take some of our products back
home with you or I could hook you up with quite a package of fiery
treats. Kingman should have some decent Mexican food and green chili
burgers just ask the locals. If you head east to Williams where the
train is for the Grand Canyon you should find some good eats on the old
Route 66, again ask the locals.

Gunner wrote:
> "Hoges in WA" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Gunner" <gunner@ spam.com> wrote in message
>> ...
>>> "dtwright37" > wrote in message
>>> oups.com...
>>>> On May 4, 2:33 am, Sonoran Dude > wrote:
>>>> snipped
>>> The Original Owl Cafe just outside Socorro heading to the Northern gate
>>> to White Sands MR, was the best Green Chile Cheese Burgers in the world,
>>> bar none. I would go down to WSMR from ABQ 1-2 time a week just to stop
>>> and eat lunch there. I understand it was bought out and moved to ABQ and
>>> it is now Corporate Commissary food on the order of Applebe's, Chili's,
>>> Red Robin, Olive Garden, etc. Better than any of the WhataBurgers which
>>> were prety damn good. Dude , ours W-A-Bs in West Texas served Cherry
>>> Peppers instead of the Jalapenos.
>>>
>>
>> These Green Chile Cheese Burgers sound good - I'm in Oz so I'm not
>> familiar with them. I looked them up after your post on a site called
>> Chowhound or Chow-Hound (can't exacatackly remember) Anyway, it reckons
>> it caters to both major food groups.
>>
>> You seem to know your way around Arizono OK - can you tell me from your
>> experience if there are A-1 GCCBs in the Kingman area? My M-i-L lives
>> there and we'll be visiting her around Xmas from West Australia and I'd
>> like to try one of these burgers. (We're going to Las Vegas to experience
>> the Greatest Light Show On Earth!!!)
>> ta
>> Hoges in WA
>
> As usual Booger is attempting to pass himself off as a cook when all he does
> is google a food network recipe. He is in CA and taking a Guacamole Burger
> and adding a chile, he really doesn't know squat about the Great Southwest.
>
> Here is the true Owl cafe and Bar near Socorro:
> http://abqstyle.com/albuquerque_restaurants/000026.html This is not the
> chain in Albuquerque, ABQ stole it from these guys. The buger is a bit
> different than 20 years ago but you can see the difference in what he is
> advocating and what the product actually is. Hatch chiles are the
> quantifying difference and I recall a dollop of green chile sauce in those
> days.
>
> Here is another link for you to judge various places without my opinion:
> http://tinyurl.com/2bxu6b
>
> Kingman,? rely on MIL to find the best places to eat there. I would think
> Ranger is correct. I'm sure it has changed since I ran those road, beside I
> would save my stomach for Vegas. Back in the day the Mafia ran Vegas there
> were $1.99 Prime Rib Dinners with all the fixings and 4-6 $ Champagne
> Brunches, half a foot ball field long, from Clods of Beef to various
> Seafoods to fresh fruits to Canapes and endless Champagne and OJ. Today the
> Legit Theives run it and even at today's much higher prices I would say it
> is too good to stop on the Hiway and chance it when you are going to the
> Glittery City. Look for coupons and specials, save up for some a special
> treat once or twice, do some research first, everyone will have their own
> favorite mostly based on spirit or spirits.
>
> Hope you have a good time in our country and let us know if we can assist.
>
>
You got Booger pegged for sure... And by the way.. Its Italian Americans

On May 14, 1:08?pm, Sonoran Dude > wrote:

> If you head east to Williams where the
> train is for the Grand Canyon you should find some good eats on the old
> Route 66, again ask the locals.

If anybody ever goes to Williams AZ, they should make reservations at
a nationwide motel/hotel chain and never arrive in Williams
(or Flagstaff, either, for that matter) hoping to find a vacancy.

The independants operate run down motels and they turn on their NO
VACANCY sign until the national chains turn their NO VACANCY
signs on.

Then they put a sign of the office door that says their shabby rooms
rent for $100 a night. Take it or leave it.

Independant motels in the Southwest are often operated like that.
Experienced travellers will stop to rent a motel room, see who is
running the motel and turn and walk out. I have seen motel managers
chase prospective guests back to their cars, shouting and swearing at
them for not wanting to stay in such a place.

Experienced travellers will know what I'm talking about.

"Hoges in WA" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Gunner" <gunner@ spam.com> wrote in message
> ...
>>
> Hoges in WA


Here is a good one for you Hoges. It is actually the way some of us have
come to view Haute Mexican Cuisine of late. It will prime ya for your visit.
http://www.fiery-foods.com/dave/santafe.html

Dave DeWitt has a humor side to him but he is a real Chile Expert, you
might get some good Info as well as a good laugh:
http://www.fiery-foods.com/dave/index.asp

Now please say you didn't get hooked into going to Kingman?LV in
July/August?

Rechazador de Disparates wrote:
> On May 14, 1:08?pm, Sonoran Dude > wrote:
>
>> If you head east to Williams where the
>> train is for the Grand Canyon you should find some good eats on the old
>> Route 66, again ask the locals.
>
> If anybody ever goes to Williams AZ, they should make reservations at
> a nationwide motel/hotel chain and never arrive in Williams
> (or Flagstaff, either, for that matter) hoping to find a vacancy.
>
> The independants operate run down motels and they turn on their NO
> VACANCY sign until the national chains turn their NO VACANCY
> signs on.
>
> Then they put a sign of the office door that says their shabby rooms
> rent for $100 a night. Take it or leave it.
>
> Independant motels in the Southwest are often operated like that.
> Experienced travellers will stop to rent a motel room, see who is
> running the motel and turn and walk out. I have seen motel managers
> chase prospective guests back to their cars, shouting and swearing at
> them for not wanting to stay in such a place.
>
> Experienced travellers will know what I'm talking about.
>
Why stay in Williams when he has a perfectly nice home in Kingman to
stay in? I only suggested dining there if they were taking the train.
BTW if you take the Train upgrade to the bar car because the alcohol
will help you tolerate the on-board entertainment.

"Gunner" <gunner@ spam.com> wrote in message
...
>
> "Hoges in WA" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Gunner" <gunner@ spam.com> wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>> Hoges in WA
>
>
> Here is a good one for you Hoges. It is actually the way some of us have
> come to view Haute Mexican Cuisine of late. It will prime ya for your
> visit.
> http://www.fiery-foods.com/dave/santafe.html
>
> Dave DeWitt has a humor side to him but he is a real Chile Expert, you
> might get some good Info as well as a good laugh:
> http://www.fiery-foods.com/dave/index.asp
>
> Now please say you didn't get hooked into going to Kingman?LV in
> July/August?
>
>

No, we're going to be there at Xmas. I was telling my daughter last year
that yes, we had to go to Perth again to have Christmas with the rellies and
yes I knew it was boring for her and yes she only had to do it once a year
and she said "why can't we go somewhere else". So in a fit of madness I
said OK we'll have Christmas in Las Vegas next year and you can see Granny.
Granny doesn't actually live in Kingman, she lives in a place called Golden
Valley but on Google Earth Kingman is the closest thing I can see with a
name.

Silly me and my big mouth. Still, she'll be off at university soon, along
with #1 son so I guess we need to do this kind of fun stuff while they're
still around. #1 Son is a big Elvis fan (he's as big as Elvis, too) so he's
looking out for some kind of religious experience that 20-yr olds have and
#1 daughter is just excited by the whole prospect. Wife wants to see mum
again and I surely want to see the lights - I'm guessing that if Las Vegas
is lit up like in that CSI thing all year, it must be one hell of a sight at
Christmas time!!

Will let you know closer to the time what the itinerary is and will sure
post a report.

Hoges in WA