Vegan (alt.food.vegan) This newsgroup exists to share ideas and issues of concern among vegans. We are always happy to share our recipes- perhaps especially with omnivores who are simply curious- or even better, accomodating a vegan guest for a meal!

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Old 07-01-2012, 10:56 PM posted to soc.culture.indian,alt.fan.jai-maharaj,alt.religion.hindu,alt.food.vegan,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.animals.rights.promotion
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Default WHY VEGANISM?



[email protected] wrote in message news
On Thu, 5 Jan 2012 16:33:19 -0800, "Dutch" wrote:

[email protected] wrote i
On Mon, 2 Jan 2012 14:16:56 -0800, "Dutch" wrote:



[email protected] wrote in message
m...

It would be a jump up for you
in reality. I did it when I was a kid by watching my chickens for
hours
at
a
time, until they chilled out and just did what they did and I could
get
an
idea
what life was like for them.

Is that when you decided it would be fun to raise roosters

Nope.


When then?


Years before.


So you were born a worthless ****.

to entertain you
and your redneck buddies by fighting each other in a pen?

I never cared much for the fight, but loved the birds and loved
raising
them. I'm convinced they would rather fight for their life in a pit than
be hung
by their feet and have their throat slit, even if there's not a single
eliminationist in the planet with enough intelligence to comprehend how
that
could possibly be the case.


You have no way of knowing what they would or would not prefer. Your
opinion


Your opinion is unrealistic and based on absolute ignorance at best.


Your opinion is designed to defend your appetite for watching animals
suffer.

is self-serving. I imagine they would prefer to go on living. I choose to
condone ending their lives to feed my family.


You can't care about the birds because of the purity of your
selfishness.
Proved by you.


Too bad the promoters of animal combat "sports" are so badly misunderstood.
They're actually "considering the animals".





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Old 07-01-2012, 11:16 PM posted to soc.culture.indian,alt.fan.jai-maharaj,alt.religion.hindu,alt.food.vegan,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.animals.rights.promotion
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Default WHY VEGANISM?

On Thu, 5 Jan 2012 16:33:19 -0800, "Dutch" wrote:

[email protected] wrote i
On Mon, 2 Jan 2012 14:16:56 -0800, "Dutch" wrote:



[email protected] wrote in message ...

It would be a jump up for you
in reality. I did it when I was a kid by watching my chickens for hours
at
a
time, until they chilled out and just did what they did and I could get
an
idea
what life was like for them.

Is that when you decided it would be fun to raise roosters


Nope.


When then?


Years before.

to entertain you
and your redneck buddies by fighting each other in a pen?


I never cared much for the fight, but loved the birds and loved raising
them. I'm convinced they would rather fight for their life in a pit than
be hung
by their feet and have their throat slit, even if there's not a single
eliminationist in the planet with enough intelligence to comprehend how
that
could possibly be the case.


You have no way of knowing what they would or would not prefer. Your opinion


Your opinion is unrealistic and based on absolute ignorance at best.

is self-serving. I imagine they would prefer to go on living. I choose to
condone ending their lives to feed my family.


You can't care about the birds because of the purity of your selfishness.
Proved by you.
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Old 08-01-2012, 08:32 PM posted to soc.culture.indian,alt.fan.jai-maharaj,alt.religion.hindu,alt.food.vegan,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.animals.rights.promotion
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Default WHY VEGANISM?

"Nemo" wrote

Why Veganism?

For compassion,


There's my reason.


Have you considered the collateral impact of those vegan alternatives? For
example leather is a by-product of the meat industry, the alternatives come
from the petro-chemical industry. The extraction of petroleum causes harm to
animals, the processes release chemicals that are harmful to animals. These
decisions are not quite as simple as you might think.


  #49 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 10-01-2012, 08:24 PM posted to soc.culture.indian,alt.fan.jai-maharaj,alt.religion.hindu,alt.food.vegan,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.animals.rights.promotion
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Default WHY VEGANISM?

Denton Vegan Cooperative

Why Veganism?

For compassion, the environment, your health, the future.

Until he extends the circle of his compassion to all living things,
man will not himself find peace.

- Albert Schweitzer, French philosopher, physician, and musician
(Nobel 1952)

A man can live and be healthy without killing animals for food;
therefore, if he eats meat, he participates in taking animal life
merely for the sake of his appetite. And to act so is immoral.

- Leo Tolstoy, Russian novelist (1828-1910)

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed, citizens can
change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.

- Margaret Mead, American cultural anthropologist (1901-1978)

Nothing will benefit human health and increase the chances for
survival of life on earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian
diet.

- Albert Einstein

For as long as men massacre animals, they will kill each other.
Indeed, he who sows the seed of murder and pain cannot reap joy and
love.

- Pythagoras, mathematician

The time will come when men such as I will look upon the murder of
animals as they now look on the murder of men.

- Leonardo da Vinci, artist and scientist

Sentient Beings Rights and Happiness:

http://www.vegansociety.com/resource...d-freedom.aspx

The Bettering of Our Tarnished Environment and the for the Hungry
People of Our World:

http://www.vegansociety.com/resources/environment.aspx

Food Security:

http://www.vegansociety.com/resource...velopment.aspx

Food for Your Heart and Your Health:

http://www.nursingdegree.net/blog/19...f-going-vegan/

Source -
http://www.dentonvegancoop.com/why-veganism.html

Jai Maharaj, Jyotishi
Om Shanti
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Old 10-01-2012, 11:13 PM posted to soc.culture.indian,alt.fan.jai-maharaj,alt.religion.hindu,alt.food.vegan,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.animals.rights.promotion
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Default WHY VEGANISM?

On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 22:31:27 +0000, Nemo wrote:

On 08/01/2012 20:32, Dutch wrote:
wrote

Why Veganism?

For compassion,

There's my reason.


Have you considered the collateral impact of those vegan alternatives? For
example leather is a by-product of the meat industry,


No it is not a by-product. More animals are slaughtered than would
otherwise be for their meat for leather.


How do you figure that?

the alternatives come
from the petro-chemical industry. The extraction of petroleum causes harm to
animals, the processes release chemicals that are harmful to animals. These
decisions are not quite as simple as you might think.


You're not seriously suggesting that I should start eating meat and
wearing animal skins because non-animal alternatives might kill wild
animals anyway, are you?


Vegans contribute to the deaths of animals by their use of
wood and paper products, electricity, roads and all types of
buildings, their own diet, etc... just as everyone else does.
What they try to avoid are products which provide life
(and death) for farm animals, but even then they would have
to avoid the following items containing animal by-products
in order to be successful:

tires, paper, upholstery, floor waxes, glass, water
filters, rubber, fertilizer, antifreeze, ceramics, insecticides,
insulation, linoleum, plastic, textiles, blood factors, collagen,
heparin, insulin, solvents, biodegradable detergents, herbicides,
gelatin capsules, adhesive tape, laminated wood products,
plywood, paneling, wallpaper and wallpaper paste, cellophane
wrap and tape, abrasives, steel ball bearings

The meat industry provides life for the animals that it
slaughters, and the animals live and die as a result of it
as animals do in other habitats. They also depend on it for
their lives as animals do in other habitats. If people consume
animal products from animals they think are raised in decent
ways, they will be promoting life for more such animals in the
future. People who want to contribute to decent lives for
livestock with their lifestyle must do it by being conscientious
consumers of animal products, because they can not do it by
being vegan.
From the life and death of a thousand pound grass raised
steer and whatever he happens to kill during his life, people
get over 500 pounds of human consumable meat...that's well
over 500 servings of meat. From a grass raised dairy cow people
get thousands of dairy servings. Due to the influence of farm
machinery, and *icides, and in the case of rice the flooding and
draining of fields, one serving of soy or rice based product is
likely to involve more animal deaths than hundreds of servings
derived from grass raised animals. Grass raised animal products
contribute to fewer wildlife deaths, better wildlife habitat, and
better lives for livestock than soy or rice products.


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Old 13-01-2012, 12:49 AM posted to soc.culture.indian,alt.fan.jai-maharaj,alt.religion.hindu,alt.food.vegan,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.animals.rights.promotion
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Default WHY VEGANISM?

On Wed, 11 Jan 2012 17:22:12 +0000, Nemo wrote:

On 10/01/2012 23:13, [email protected] wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 22:31:27 +0000, wrote:

On 08/01/2012 20:32, Dutch wrote:
wrote

Why Veganism?

For compassion,

There's my reason.

Have you considered the collateral impact of those vegan alternatives? For
example leather is a by-product of the meat industry,

No it is not a by-product. More animals are slaughtered than would
otherwise be for their meat for leather.


How do you figure that?


Leather is a co-product of the meat industry, not a by-product of
it. It's an economically dependent product of meat production made
simultaneously with it to make each affordable to the consumer and
thereby increases the demand for slaughtered animals. A by-product
is something produced incidentally to another product that isn't
economically dependent on it for its production.


Leather is. If no cattle were raised for beef or dairy some might be raised
for leather, but as it is no cattle need to be raised for leather so they
aren't.

the alternatives come
from the petro-chemical industry. The extraction of petroleum causes harm to
animals, the processes release chemicals that are harmful to animals. These
decisions are not quite as simple as you might think.


You're not seriously suggesting that I should start eating meat and
wearing animal skins because non-animal alternatives might kill wild
animals anyway, are you?


Vegans contribute to the deaths of animals by their use of
wood and paper products, electricity, roads and all types of
buildings, their own diet, etc... just as everyone else does.
What they try to avoid are products which provide life
(and death) for farm animals, but even then they would have
to avoid the following items containing animal by-products
in order to be successful:

tires, paper, upholstery, floor waxes, glass, water
filters, rubber, fertilizer, antifreeze, ceramics, insecticides,
insulation, linoleum, plastic, textiles, blood factors, collagen,
heparin, insulin, solvents, biodegradable detergents, herbicides,
gelatin capsules, adhesive tape, laminated wood products,
plywood, paneling, wallpaper and wallpaper paste, cellophane
wrap and tape, abrasives, steel ball bearings

The meat industry provides life for the animals that it
slaughters, and the animals live and die as a result of it
as animals do in other habitats. They also depend on it for
their lives as animals do in other habitats. If people consume
animal products from animals they think are raised in decent
ways, they will be promoting life for more such animals in the
future. People who want to contribute to decent lives for
livestock with their lifestyle must do it by being conscientious
consumers of animal products, because they can not do it by
being vegan.
From the life and death of a thousand pound grass raised
steer and whatever he happens to kill during his life, people
get over 500 pounds of human consumable meat...that's well
over 500 servings of meat. From a grass raised dairy cow people
get thousands of dairy servings. Due to the influence of farm
machinery, and *icides, and in the case of rice the flooding and
draining of fields, one serving of soy or rice based product is
likely to involve more animal deaths than hundreds of servings
derived from grass raised animals. Grass raised animal products
contribute to fewer wildlife deaths, better wildlife habitat, and
better lives for livestock than soy or rice products.


Children raised in third world countries on other children from third
world countries for their tender meat and young organ replacements
would contribute to fewer human deaths in first world countries. I
still wouldn't buy their meat or use their organs.


That's not similar enough to even try comparing, so why did you try do you
have any idea?
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Old 13-01-2012, 01:56 PM posted to soc.culture.indian,alt.fan.jai-maharaj,alt.religion.hindu,alt.food.vegan,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.animals.rights.promotion
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Default WHY VEGANISM?

On Thu, 12 Jan 2012 16:49:48 -0800, [email protected] wrote:

On Wed, 11 Jan 2012 17:22:12 +0000, Nemo (heh heh heh) wrote:
On 10/01/2012 23:13, [email protected] wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 22:31:27 +0000, Nemo (heh heh heh) wrote:
On 08/01/2012 20:32, Dutch wrote:
(heh heh heh) wrote

Why Veganism?

For compassion,

There's my reason.

Have you considered the collateral impact of those vegan alternatives? For
example leather is a by-product of the meat industry,

No it is not a by-product. More animals are slaughtered than would
otherwise be for their meat for leather.

How do you figure that?


Leather is a co-product of the meat industry, not a by-product of
it. It's an economically dependent product of meat production made
simultaneously with it to make each affordable to the consumer and
thereby increases the demand for slaughtered animals. A by-product
is something produced incidentally to another product that isn't
economically dependent on it for its production.


Leather is.


[Most consumers mistakenly assume that leather is merely
a by-product of the meat industry, and that buying leather
clothing does not increase the number of animals slaughtered.
However, this belief ignores the economic interdependence
of factory farming and the leather trade. In reality, leather is
a co-product of the meat industry, generating significant
profits for both factory farms and the leather trade itself. In
fact, without the lucrative sale of animal skins for leather,
factory farms would not even be able to turn a profit by
selling meat alone. Ultimately, buying leather products
subsidizes factory farms while providing financial incentive
for them to produce more leather.]
http://www.idausa.org/facts/leatherfacts.html

co-product
something produced jointly with another product.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/co-product

by-product
1. a secondary or incidental product, as in a process of manufacture.
2. the result of another action, often unforeseen or unintended.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/by-product

Unlike leather, a co-product economically dependent upon
the meat industry, the collateral deaths accrued during vegetable
production are merely a secondary incidental by-product of it
that goes to waste. Vegans cannot in good conscience buy
co-products economically dependent upon the meat industry, and
that's why they avoid buying leather. But if you're going to insist
leather is merely a by-product of the meat industry you would
have no argument against vegans if they buy it, or any other items
on your list that contains them, because they are merely an incidental
by-product, often unforeseen and unintended. Way to go Harrison,
you stupid ****wit; categorising leather as merely an unforeseen
unintended by-product lets vegans off the hook.

If no cattle were raised for beef or dairy some might be raised
for leather, but as it is no cattle need to be raised for leather so they
aren't.


The very high prices of alligator and mink are just two examples
which prove how the meat industry subsidises cow hides and
increases the number of their slaughter. If alligators and mink
where slaughtered for their meat the price for their hides would
fall dramatically and the numbers slaughtered would increase
accordingly.

the alternatives come
from the petro-chemical industry. The extraction of petroleum causes harm to
animals, the processes release chemicals that are harmful to animals. These
decisions are not quite as simple as you might think.


You're not seriously suggesting that I should start eating meat and
wearing animal skins because non-animal alternatives might kill wild
animals anyway, are you?

Vegans contribute to the deaths of animals by their use of
wood and paper products, electricity, roads and all types of
buildings, their own diet, etc... just as everyone else does.
What they try to avoid are products which provide life
(and death) for farm animals, but even then they would have
to avoid the following items containing animal by-products
in order to be successful:

tires, paper, upholstery, floor waxes, glass, water
filters, rubber, fertilizer, antifreeze, ceramics, insecticides,
insulation, linoleum, plastic, textiles, blood factors, collagen,
heparin, insulin, solvents, biodegradable detergents, herbicides,
gelatin capsules, adhesive tape, laminated wood products,
plywood, paneling, wallpaper and wallpaper paste, cellophane
wrap and tape, abrasives, steel ball bearings


Like you say, Harrison, all those items contain incidental unforeseen
by-products of the meat industry. They certainly aren't co-products
of it that must be avoided.

The meat industry provides life for the animals that it
slaughters, and the animals live and die as a result of it
as animals do in other habitats. They also depend on it for
their lives as animals do in other habitats. If people consume
animal products from animals they think are raised in decent
ways, they will be promoting life for more such animals in the
future. People who want to contribute to decent lives for
livestock with their lifestyle must do it by being conscientious
consumers of animal products, because they can not do it by
being vegan.
From the life and death of a thousand pound grass raised
steer and whatever he happens to kill during his life, people
get over 500 pounds of human consumable meat...that's well
over 500 servings of meat. From a grass raised dairy cow people
get thousands of dairy servings. Due to the influence of farm
machinery, and *icides, and in the case of rice the flooding and
draining of fields, one serving of soy or rice based product is
likely to involve more animal deaths than hundreds of servings
derived from grass raised animals. Grass raised animal products
contribute to fewer wildlife deaths, better wildlife habitat, and
better lives for livestock than soy or rice products.


Children raised in third world countries on other children from third
world countries for their tender meat and young organ replacements
would contribute to fewer human deaths in first world countries. I
still wouldn't buy their meat or use their organs.


That's not similar enough to even try comparing, so why did you try do you
have any idea?


You want to ignore the similarity because it defeats your logic
of the larder argument for the use of animals, but it's there all
the same whether you reject it or not.
  #53 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 18-01-2012, 01:39 AM posted to soc.culture.indian,alt.fan.jai-maharaj,alt.religion.hindu,alt.food.vegan,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.animals.rights.promotion
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Default WHY VEGANISM?

On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 13:56:31 +0000, Derek wrote:

On Thu, 12 Jan 2012 16:49:48 -0800, [email protected] wrote:

On Wed, 11 Jan 2012 17:22:12 +0000, Nemo (heh heh heh) wrote:
On 10/01/2012 23:13, [email protected] wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 22:31:27 +0000, Nemo (heh heh heh) wrote:
On 08/01/2012 20:32, Dutch wrote:
(heh heh heh) wrote

Why Veganism?

For compassion,

There's my reason.

Have you considered the collateral impact of those vegan alternatives? For
example leather is a by-product of the meat industry,

No it is not a by-product. More animals are slaughtered than would
otherwise be for their meat for leather.

How do you figure that?

Leather is a co-product of the meat industry, not a by-product of
it. It's an economically dependent product of meat production made
simultaneously with it to make each affordable to the consumer and
thereby increases the demand for slaughtered animals. A by-product
is something produced incidentally to another product that isn't
economically dependent on it for its production.


Leather is.


[Most consumers mistakenly assume that leather is merely
a by-product of the meat industry, and that buying leather
clothing does not increase the number of animals slaughtered.
However, this belief ignores the economic interdependence
of factory farming and the leather trade. In reality, leather is
a co-product of the meat industry, generating significant
profits for both factory farms and the leather trade itself. In
fact, without the lucrative sale of animal skins for leather,
factory farms would not even be able to turn a profit by
selling meat alone.


Provide some reason to believe the claim. Go:
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Old 18-01-2012, 06:14 AM posted to soc.culture.indian,alt.fan.jai-maharaj,alt.religion.hindu,alt.food.vegan,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.animals.rights.promotion
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,025
Default WHY VEGANISM?

[email protected] wrote in message ...
On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 13:56:31 +0000, Derek wrote:

On Thu, 12 Jan 2012 16:49:48 -0800, [email protected] wrote:

On Wed, 11 Jan 2012 17:22:12 +0000, Nemo (heh heh heh)
wrote:
On 10/01/2012 23:13, [email protected] wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 22:31:27 +0000, Nemo (heh heh heh)
wrote:
On 08/01/2012 20:32, Dutch wrote:
(heh heh heh) wrote

Why Veganism?

For compassion,

There's my reason.

Have you considered the collateral impact of those vegan
alternatives? For
example leather is a by-product of the meat industry,

No it is not a by-product. More animals are slaughtered than would
otherwise be for their meat for leather.

How do you figure that?

Leather is a co-product of the meat industry, not a by-product of
it. It's an economically dependent product of meat production made
simultaneously with it to make each affordable to the consumer and
thereby increases the demand for slaughtered animals. A by-product
is something produced incidentally to another product that isn't
economically dependent on it for its production.

Leather is.


[Most consumers mistakenly assume that leather is merely
a by-product of the meat industry, and that buying leather
clothing does not increase the number of animals slaughtered.
However, this belief ignores the economic interdependence
of factory farming and the leather trade. In reality, leather is
a co-product of the meat industry, generating significant
profits for both factory farms and the leather trade itself. In
fact, without the lucrative sale of animal skins for leather,
factory farms would not even be able to turn a profit by
selling meat alone.


Provide some reason to believe the claim. Go:


Humans have NEVER considered animal hides to be waste. But don't let human
history bother your little bizarro reality.




  #55 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 18-01-2012, 12:41 PM posted to soc.culture.indian,alt.fan.jai-maharaj,alt.religion.hindu,alt.food.vegan,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.animals.rights.promotion
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 215
Default WHY VEGANISM?

On 18/01/2012 01:39, [email protected] wrote:
On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 13:56:31 +0000, wrote:
On Thu, 12 Jan 2012 16:49:48 -0800, [email protected] wrote:
On Wed, 11 Jan 2012 17:22:12 +0000, Nemo (heh heh wrote:
On 10/01/2012 23:13, [email protected] wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 22:31:27 +0000, Nemo (heh heh wrote:
On 08/01/2012 20:32, Dutch wrote:
(heh heh heh) wrote

Why Veganism?

For compassion,

There's my reason.

Have you considered the collateral impact of those vegan alternatives? For
example leather is a by-product of the meat industry,

No it is not a by-product. More animals are slaughtered than would
otherwise be for their meat for leather.

How do you figure that?

Leather is a co-product of the meat industry, not a by-product of
it. It's an economically dependent product of meat production made
simultaneously with it to make each affordable to the consumer and
thereby increases the demand for slaughtered animals. A by-product
is something produced incidentally to another product that isn't
economically dependent on it for its production.

Leather is.


[Most consumers mistakenly assume that leather is merely
a by-product of the meat industry, and that buying leather
clothing does not increase the number of animals slaughtered.
However, this belief ignores the economic interdependence
of factory farming and the leather trade. In reality, leather is
a co-product of the meat industry, generating significant
profits for both factory farms and the leather trade itself. In
fact, without the lucrative sale of animal skins for leather,
factory farms would not even be able to turn a profit by
selling meat alone.


Provide some reason to believe the claim


I did, but you edited it all out because you're a coward who can't
admit defeat when he sees it.

unsnipped from previous post

Ultimately, buying leather products
subsidizes factory farms while providing financial incentive
for them to produce more leather.]
http://www.idausa.org/facts/leatherfacts.html

co-product
something produced jointly with another product.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/co-product

by-product
1. a secondary or incidental product, as in a process of manufacture.
2. the result of another action, often unforeseen or unintended.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/by-product

Unlike leather, a co-product economically dependent upon
the meat industry, the collateral deaths accrued during vegetable
production are merely a secondary incidental by-product of it
that goes to waste. Vegans cannot in good conscience buy
co-products economically dependent upon the meat industry, and
that's why they avoid buying leather. But if you're going to insist
leather is merely a by-product of the meat industry you would
have no argument against vegans if they buy it, or any other items
on your list that contains them, because they are merely an incidental
by-product, often unforeseen and unintended. Way to go Harrison,
you stupid ****wit; categorising leather as merely an unforeseen
unintended by-product lets vegans off the hook.

If no cattle were raised for beef or dairy some might be raised
for leather, but as it is no cattle need to be raised for leather so

they
aren't.


The very high prices of alligator and mink are just two examples
which prove how the meat industry subsidises cow hides and
increases the number of their slaughter. If alligators and mink
where slaughtered for their meat the price for their hides would
fall dramatically and the numbers slaughtered would increase
accordingly.

the alternatives come
from the petro-chemical industry. The extraction of petroleum
causes harm to
animals, the processes release chemicals that are harmful

to animals. These
decisions are not quite as simple as you might think.


You're not seriously suggesting that I should start eating

meat and
wearing animal skins because non-animal alternatives might

kill wild
animals anyway, are you?

Vegans contribute to the deaths of animals by their use of
wood and paper products, electricity, roads and all types of
buildings, their own diet, etc... just as everyone else does.
What they try to avoid are products which provide life
(and death) for farm animals, but even then they would have
to avoid the following items containing animal by-products
in order to be successful:

tires, paper, upholstery, floor waxes, glass, water
filters, rubber, fertilizer, antifreeze, ceramics, insecticides,
insulation, linoleum, plastic, textiles, blood factors, collagen,
heparin, insulin, solvents, biodegradable detergents, herbicides,
gelatin capsules, adhesive tape, laminated wood products,
plywood, paneling, wallpaper and wallpaper paste, cellophane
wrap and tape, abrasives, steel ball bearings


Like you say, Harrison, all those items contain incidental unforeseen
by-products of the meat industry. They certainly aren't co-products
of it that must be avoided.

The meat industry provides life for the animals that it
slaughters, and the animals live and die as a result of it
as animals do in other habitats. They also depend on it for
their lives as animals do in other habitats. If people consume
animal products from animals they think are raised in decent
ways, they will be promoting life for more such animals in the
future. People who want to contribute to decent lives for
livestock with their lifestyle must do it by being conscientious
consumers of animal products, because they can not do it by
being vegan.
From the life and death of a thousand pound grass raised
steer and whatever he happens to kill during his life, people
get over 500 pounds of human consumable meat...that's well
over 500 servings of meat. From a grass raised dairy cow people
get thousands of dairy servings. Due to the influence of farm
machinery, and *icides, and in the case of rice the flooding and
draining of fields, one serving of soy or rice based product is
likely to involve more animal deaths than hundreds of servings
derived from grass raised animals. Grass raised animal products
contribute to fewer wildlife deaths, better wildlife habitat, and
better lives for livestock than soy or rice products.

Children raised in third world countries on other children from third
world countries for their tender meat and young organ replacements
would contribute to fewer human deaths in first world countries. I
still wouldn't buy their meat or use their organs.


That's not similar enough to even try comparing, so why did you

try do you
have any idea?


You want to ignore the similarity because it defeats your logic
of the larder argument for the use of animals, but it's there all
the same whether you reject it or not.
end repost



  #56 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 30-01-2012, 07:50 PM posted to soc.culture.indian,alt.fan.jai-maharaj,alt.religion.hindu,alt.food.vegan,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.animals.rights.promotion
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Default WHY VEGANISM?

On Tue, 17 Jan 2012 22:14:34 -0800, "Dutch" wrote:

[email protected] wrote in message ...
On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 13:56:31 +0000, Derek wrote:

On Thu, 12 Jan 2012 16:49:48 -0800, [email protected] wrote:

On Wed, 11 Jan 2012 17:22:12 +0000, Nemo (heh heh heh)
wrote:
On 10/01/2012 23:13, [email protected] wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 22:31:27 +0000, Nemo (heh heh heh)
wrote:
On 08/01/2012 20:32, Dutch wrote:
(heh heh heh) wrote

Why Veganism?

For compassion,

There's my reason.

Have you considered the collateral impact of those vegan
alternatives? For
example leather is a by-product of the meat industry,

No it is not a by-product. More animals are slaughtered than would
otherwise be for their meat for leather.

How do you figure that?

Leather is a co-product of the meat industry, not a by-product of
it. It's an economically dependent product of meat production made
simultaneously with it to make each affordable to the consumer and
thereby increases the demand for slaughtered animals. A by-product
is something produced incidentally to another product that isn't
economically dependent on it for its production.

Leather is.

[Most consumers mistakenly assume that leather is merely
a by-product of the meat industry, and that buying leather
clothing does not increase the number of animals slaughtered.
However, this belief ignores the economic interdependence
of factory farming and the leather trade. In reality, leather is
a co-product of the meat industry, generating significant
profits for both factory farms and the leather trade itself. In
fact, without the lucrative sale of animal skins for leather,
factory farms would not even be able to turn a profit by
selling meat alone.


Provide some reason to believe the claim. Go:


Humans have NEVER considered animal hides to be waste.


They are waste to the vast majority of the food industry. Duh. You need to
provide some evidence that MORE cattle experience life because of leather, than
do exist because they're raised to be used for food. Go:
  #57 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 30-01-2012, 07:53 PM posted to soc.culture.indian,alt.fan.jai-maharaj,alt.religion.hindu,alt.food.vegan,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.animals.rights.promotion
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Default WHY VEGANISM?

On Wed, 18 Jan 2012 12:41:12 +0000, Derek wrote:

Unlike leather, a co-product economically dependent upon
the meat industry,


All you did was show that eliminationists dishonestly want people to
mistakenly believe some cattle experience life only because humans buy leather,
which as far as we can tell is a very stupid idea with no truth to it.

the collateral deaths accrued during vegetable
production are merely


Then the cds accrued during the production of leather are merely as well.
  #58 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 31-01-2012, 05:29 AM posted to soc.culture.indian,alt.fan.jai-maharaj,alt.religion.hindu,alt.food.vegan,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.animals.rights.promotion
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Default WHY VEGANISM?



[email protected] wrote in message ...
On Tue, 17 Jan 2012 22:14:34 -0800, "Dutch" wrote:

[email protected] wrote in message ...
On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 13:56:31 +0000, Derek
wrote:

On Thu, 12 Jan 2012 16:49:48 -0800, [email protected] wrote:

On Wed, 11 Jan 2012 17:22:12 +0000, Nemo (heh heh heh)
wrote:
On 10/01/2012 23:13, [email protected] wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 22:31:27 +0000, Nemo (heh heh heh)

wrote:
On 08/01/2012 20:32, Dutch wrote:
(heh heh heh) wrote

Why Veganism?

For compassion,

There's my reason.

Have you considered the collateral impact of those vegan
alternatives? For
example leather is a by-product of the meat industry,

No it is not a by-product. More animals are slaughtered than would
otherwise be for their meat for leather.

How do you figure that?

Leather is a co-product of the meat industry, not a by-product of
it. It's an economically dependent product of meat production made
simultaneously with it to make each affordable to the consumer and
thereby increases the demand for slaughtered animals. A by-product
is something produced incidentally to another product that isn't
economically dependent on it for its production.

Leather is.

[Most consumers mistakenly assume that leather is merely
a by-product of the meat industry, and that buying leather
clothing does not increase the number of animals slaughtered.
However, this belief ignores the economic interdependence
of factory farming and the leather trade. In reality, leather is
a co-product of the meat industry, generating significant
profits for both factory farms and the leather trade itself. In
fact, without the lucrative sale of animal skins for leather,
factory farms would not even be able to turn a profit by
selling meat alone.

Provide some reason to believe the claim. Go:


Humans have NEVER considered animal hides to be waste.


They are waste to the vast majority of the food industry. Duh. You need
to
provide some evidence that MORE cattle experience life because of leather,
than
do exist because they're raised to be used for food. Go:


You just need to shut up.


  #59 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 01-02-2012, 08:25 PM posted to soc.culture.indian,alt.fan.jai-maharaj,alt.religion.hindu,alt.food.vegan,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.animals.rights.promotion
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Default WHY VEGANISM?

On Mon, 30 Jan 2012 21:29:04 -0800, "Dutch" wrote:



[email protected] wrote in message ...
On Tue, 17 Jan 2012 22:14:34 -0800, "Dutch" wrote:

[email protected] wrote in message ...
On Fri, 13 Jan 2012 13:56:31 +0000, Derek
wrote:

On Thu, 12 Jan 2012 16:49:48 -0800, [email protected] wrote:

On Wed, 11 Jan 2012 17:22:12 +0000, Nemo (heh heh heh)
wrote:
On 10/01/2012 23:13, [email protected] wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 22:31:27 +0000, Nemo (heh heh heh)

wrote:
On 08/01/2012 20:32, Dutch wrote:
(heh heh heh) wrote

Why Veganism?

For compassion,

There's my reason.

Have you considered the collateral impact of those vegan
alternatives? For
example leather is a by-product of the meat industry,

No it is not a by-product. More animals are slaughtered than would
otherwise be for their meat for leather.

How do you figure that?

Leather is a co-product of the meat industry, not a by-product of
it. It's an economically dependent product of meat production made
simultaneously with it to make each affordable to the consumer and
thereby increases the demand for slaughtered animals. A by-product
is something produced incidentally to another product that isn't
economically dependent on it for its production.

Leather is.

[Most consumers mistakenly assume that leather is merely
a by-product of the meat industry, and that buying leather
clothing does not increase the number of animals slaughtered.
However, this belief ignores the economic interdependence
of factory farming and the leather trade. In reality, leather is
a co-product of the meat industry, generating significant
profits for both factory farms and the leather trade itself. In
fact, without the lucrative sale of animal skins for leather,
factory farms would not even be able to turn a profit by
selling meat alone.

Provide some reason to believe the claim. Go:

Humans have NEVER considered animal hides to be waste.


They are waste to the vast majority of the food industry. Duh. You need
to
provide some evidence that MORE cattle experience life because of leather,
than
do exist because they're raised to be used for food. Go:


You just need to shut up.


LOL!!! You reveal yourself yet AGAIN by being opposed to pointing out that
NO more cattle experience life because humans buy leather than would exist if
they did not, much less does buying a belt cause any "extra" bovine to live
anywhere on this or any other planet. Duh again. ONLY an eliminationist would be
opposed to seeing that fact clearly pointed out and included in the equation.
  #60 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 01-02-2012, 08:34 PM posted to soc.culture.indian,alt.fan.jai-maharaj,alt.religion.hindu,alt.food.vegan,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,alt.animals.rights.promotion
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Default WHY VEGANISM?

Denton Vegan Cooperative

Why Veganism?

For compassion, the environment, your health, the future.

Until he extends the circle of his compassion to all living things,
man will not himself find peace.

- Albert Schweitzer, French philosopher, physician, and musician
(Nobel 1952)

A man can live and be healthy without killing animals for food;
therefore, if he eats meat, he participates in taking animal life
merely for the sake of his appetite. And to act so is immoral.

- Leo Tolstoy, Russian novelist (1828-1910)

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed, citizens can
change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has.

- Margaret Mead, American cultural anthropologist (1901-1978)

Nothing will benefit human health and increase the chances for
survival of life on earth as much as the evolution to a vegetarian
diet.

- Albert Einstein

For as long as men massacre animals, they will kill each other.
Indeed, he who sows the seed of murder and pain cannot reap joy and
love.

- Pythagoras, mathematician

The time will come when men such as I will look upon the murder of
animals as they now look on the murder of men.

- Leonardo da Vinci, artist and scientist

Sentient Beings Rights and Happiness:

http://www.vegansociety.com/resource...d-freedom.aspx

The Bettering of Our Tarnished Environment and the for the Hungry
People of Our World:

http://www.vegansociety.com/resources/environment.aspx

Food Security:

http://www.vegansociety.com/resource...velopment.aspx

Food for Your Heart and Your Health:

http://www.nursingdegree.net/blog/19...f-going-vegan/

Source -
http://www.dentonvegancoop.com/why-veganism.html

Jai Maharaj, Jyotishi
Om Shanti


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