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| Vegan (alt.food.vegan) This newsgroup exists to share ideas and issues of concern among vegans. We are always happy to share our recipes- perhaps especially with omnivores who are simply curious- or even better, accomodating a vegan guest for a meal! |
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Depression and veganism
I've noticed that my friends who have gone exclusively vegan, even if
they take vitamins, seem more moody and depressed. Has anyone else noticed this? |
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Depression and veganism
"tofubar" > wrote in message om... > I've noticed that my friends who have gone exclusively vegan, even if > they take vitamins, seem more moody and depressed. Has anyone else > noticed this? Nope, but the reverse is well documented. http://www.ecologos.org/anxiety.htm Laurie |
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Depression and veganism
tofubar wrote:
> I've noticed that my friends who have gone exclusively vegan, even if > they take vitamins, seem more moody and depressed. Has anyone else > noticed this? You are getting the causation arrow backward. They are not depressed because they've "gone 'vegan'". They went "vegan" because they're depressed, mentally ill people. |
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Depression and veganism
"Jonathan Ball" > wrote in message ink.net... > tofubar wrote: > > > I've noticed that my friends who have gone exclusively vegan, even if > > they take vitamins, seem more moody and depressed. Has anyone else > > noticed this? > > You are getting the causation arrow backward. They are > not depressed because they've "gone 'vegan'". They > went "vegan" because they're depressed, mentally ill > people. What a stupid response you pathetic little pixie  You are compressed not depressed. > |
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Depression and veganism
"Laurie" > wrote in message ... > "tofubar" > wrote in message om... > > > > I've noticed that my friends who have gone exclusively vegan, even if > > they take vitamins, seem more moody and depressed. Has anyone else > > noticed this? > > Nope, but the reverse is well documented. > http://www.ecologos.org/anxiety.htm > > Laurie > The first line on that page goes; "The short-term effects of fasting on the neuroendocrine system in patients with chronic pain syndromes.", and then goes on to explain why in a language I simply don't understand. Does it translate to fasting being beneficial for overweight people suffering chronic pain? David Blain lost 4 stone in 44 days during his fast; something I could do with, but would such a fast, even for only a week, diminish chronic pain in your opinion? |
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Depression and veganism
In article >, tofubar wrote:
> I've noticed that my friends who have gone exclusively vegan, even if > they take vitamins, seem more moody and depressed. Has anyone else > noticed this? I believe this depression to be completely unrelated to any vitamin or other deficiency a person may have (which are still much less common in vegans than in meat-eaters). It stems from the fact that vegans are generally much more aware of the cruelty to animals (and people) than others. Every time we have to check ingredients or find the source of one, we are reminded of what takes place at factory farms and slaughterhouses. Every time we see leather, fur, or other animal-derived materials, we are reminded of how the animals had to suffer before they were brutally slaughtered. "Average" people don't associate these products with suffering. These reminders constantly make us aware of the state of this world and the way we treat the creatures on it, which may result in depression depending on how the individual can handle this awareness. |
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Depression and veganism
"Joseph M Battaglia" > wrote in message
. .. > In article >, tofubar wrote: > > I've noticed that my friends who have gone exclusively vegan, even if > > they take vitamins, seem more moody and depressed. Has anyone else > > noticed this? > > I believe this depression to be completely unrelated to any vitamin or > other deficiency a person may have (which are still much less common in vegans > than in meat-eaters). ====================== Af act you didn't back up, eh? It stems from the fact that vegans are generally much more > aware of the cruelty to animals (and people) than others. Every time we have to > check ingredients or find the source of one, we are reminded of what takes place > at factory farms and slaughterhouses. ======================= yet you sanctimoniuosly ignore the death and suffering that brought that product to your plate. Why is that? You are perfectly capable of causing less death and suffering than you do now by substituting some of your veggies with the right meats. But, for vegans that's agains't their simple rule. Simple rules for simple minds. Every time we see leather, fur, or other > animal-derived materials, we are reminded of how the animals had to suffer > before they were brutally slaughtered. ======================= Whenevr I see cotton or pretro-chemical industry based synthetics I think of all the animals that are far more cruelly killed that those in the slaughterhouses. Guess you conveninetly ignore those deaths, eh? Why is it that all you think you have to do is not eat, wear, or touch animal parts and you believe that no animals ever died? Even posting your ignorance on usenet around the world for all to see is not cruelty free. So, the fact remains, you are not concerned with the death and suffering of animals, just what it takes to make you feel better about yourself, and superior to others. "Average" people don't associate these > products with suffering. ==================== Nor should they. It's the same as you never associating animal death and suffering with your choices. death and suffering which, again, is far more horrible and inhumane than the deaths of animals in slaughterhouses. These reminders constantly make us aware of the state > of this world and the way we treat the creatures on it, which may result in > depression depending on how the individual can handle this awareness. ____---------------------- The only possibility then is that your toatl ignorance of facts keeps you unaware of your bloody footprints as your traipse around feeling so smug about your idiocy. on how the individual can handle this awareness. |
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Depression and veganism
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Depression and veganism
tofubar > wrote in message om... > I've noticed that my friends who have gone exclusively vegan, even if > they take vitamins, seem more moody and depressed. Has anyone else > noticed this? Far more people suffer depression as a result of the Organophosphate pesticide that almost all non-organic vegetables are saturated with. And the farmers and the Government still pretend the stuff is harmless and dream up ridiculous stories to cover up poisoning by the stuff. Nemo |
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Depression and veganism
Derek > wrote in message ... > > "Laurie" > wrote in message ... > > "tofubar" > wrote in message om... > > > > > > I've noticed that my friends who have gone exclusively vegan, even if > > > they take vitamins, seem more moody and depressed. Has anyone else > > > noticed this? > > > > Nope, but the reverse is well documented. > > http://www.ecologos.org/anxiety.htm > > > > Laurie > > > The first line on that page goes; > "The short-term effects of fasting on the neuroendocrine > system in patients with chronic pain syndromes.", and > then goes on to explain why in a language I simply don't > understand. Does it translate to fasting being beneficial for > overweight people suffering chronic pain? David Blain lost > 4 stone in 44 days during his fast; something I could do with, > but would such a fast, even for only a week, diminish chronic > pain in your opinion? > Non sequitur. No-one's talking about fasting. |
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Depression and veganism
Jonathan Ball > wrote in message ink.net... > tofubar wrote: > > > I've noticed that my friends who have gone exclusively vegan, even if > > they take vitamins, seem more moody and depressed. Has anyone else > > noticed this? > > You are getting the causation arrow backward. They are > not depressed because they've "gone 'vegan'". They > went "vegan" because they're depressed, mentally ill > people. > And meat eaters who risk about 30 different parasites, cancer, heart disease, diverticular disease, obesity etc. are sane??? Pull the other one. It plays Lettuce with a gladsome mind . . |
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Depression and veganism
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Depression and veganism
nemo wrote:
> And meat eaters who risk about 30 different parasites, cancer, heart > disease, diverticular disease, obesity etc. are sane??? Consumers of organic produce are also at risk of parasitic infection, e coli infection, etc. Nature's a real bitch, huh. |
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Depression and veganism
"piddock" > wrote in message om... > (tofubar) wrote in message . com>... > > I've noticed that my friends who have gone exclusively vegan, even if > > they take vitamins, seem more moody and depressed. Has anyone else > > noticed this? > > No. Vegans and vegetarians are happier than meat-eaters. > Whenever vegans do feel sad, it is because of anti-vegetarians > who favor greater government control to force vegans and animals > to cater to their selfish lifestyle. ======================== ROTFLMAO What a hoot! this is the laugh of the day, killer. The only people here advocating making others do what they do are the vegans, you ignorant loon! No where has any of us told you what you have to eat. vegans do that all the time, and would make it the governments fuction to ensure that diet given the chance. You truly are insane, hypocrite. |
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Depression and veganism
(tofubar) wrote in message . com>...
> I've noticed that my friends who have gone exclusively vegan, even if > they take vitamins, seem more moody and depressed. Has anyone else > noticed this? For clarification: Did the moodiness and depression begin "before* or *after* they went exclusively vegan? There seems to be evidence that cutting out animal food might help depression: http://www.celestialhealing.net/mentalveg.htm If your friends really did get more moody and depressed *after* going exclusively vegan, then: 1. Are they getting enough omega3? Maybe suggest to them that they eat some flax. So far as I know, there are few *good* *vegan* sources of omega3. Minor vegan sources, yes, but good vegan sources. One such is flax seed. I regluarly grind flax seeds and dump them in carrot/celery/pepper juice. (Even tho I'm not strict vegan, because once a month or so I eat buffalo meat, probably the best kind of meat.) 2. Are they deficient in B12? Avoid antibiotics. Take B12 supplements. Antibiotics kill bacteria that make B12. |
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Depression and veganism
Jerry Story wrote:
>>I've noticed that my friends who have gone exclusively vegan, even if >>they take vitamins, seem more moody and depressed. Has anyone else >>noticed this? > > For clarification: Did the moodiness and depression begin "before* or > *after* they went exclusively vegan? > > There seems to be evidence that cutting out animal food might help > depression: > http://www.celestialhealing.net/mentalveg.htm What specific evidence on that page, hmmm? There are only two actual citations offered and neither deals with depression. Indeed, there's really not much on that page which deals with the issue of depression -- clinical or otherwise -- other than some unsubstantiated conjecture. Explain this one for us: A vegetarian diet produces higher levels of behavior than a diet containing meat when all types of caloric intake are equal. WTF does "higher levels of behavior" mean? > If your friends really did get more moody and depressed *after* going > exclusively vegan, then: > > 1. Are they getting enough omega3? > > Maybe suggest to them that they eat some flax. > > So far as I know, there are few *good* *vegan* sources of omega3. > Minor vegan sources, yes, but good vegan sources. One such is flax > seed. I regluarly grind flax seeds and dump them in > carrot/celery/pepper juice. Another underlying cause of depression is anemia. It's quite possible this person's diet is very low in iron. Some leafy greens have a lot of iron. Meat, too, has iron, and it may be more bioavailable for some people. > (Even tho I'm not strict vegan, because once a month or so I eat > buffalo meat, probably the best kind of meat.) Sorry, Charlie, but that pretty much DQs you from being any kind of vegetarian, much less a "vegan." "Strict vegan" is redundant. Regardless, your diet regularly contains meat. You're an omnivore. Stop pretending you're "vegan" in any form. > 2. Are they deficient in B12? > > Avoid antibiotics. Take B12 supplements. > > Antibiotics kill bacteria that make B12. Where do you get this gem? Your body already lacks the bacteria that make B12, unless you're an alien or some kind of mutant. Antibiotics are beneficial for infections. B12 is required by the body all the time. You shouldn't be dispensing medical advice unless you have a freaking clue what you're talking about. |
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Depression and veganism
"rick etter" > wrote in message news:<clWpb.1601
> ROTFLMAO What a hoot! ROTFLMAO!! What a ****ing liar, you are! I can hardly wait until you get your first heart attack. I will jump for joy when you suffer and drop dead! It will be hilarious for the medical staff to laugh at you and tell you that they don't have to be told by YOU what to do. You anti-vegetarians force meat on your kids. You force it on people in public schools and universities and government. Your advertising is forced in our face everywhere. And you force YOUR beliefs and YOUR behaviors on animals by forcing THEM to do what you want -- suffer and die in a cage -- for your trivial little lust for burgers. Throwing you in prison for the rest of your life, or leaving you to die if you get a heart attack or stroke, is the ONLY way to get your type to get this point through your heads. |
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Depression and veganism
"piddock" > wrote in message om... > "rick etter" > wrote in message news:<clWpb.1601 > > ROTFLMAO What a hoot! > > ROTFLMAO!! What a ****ing liar, you are! > I can hardly wait until you get your first heart attack. > I will jump for joy when you suffer and drop dead!\ ============================== Ah, feel the AR/vegan compassion. You really are a laugh a minute, killer. > It will be hilarious for the medical staff to laugh at you > and tell you that they don't have to be told by YOU what to do. > ==================== If what a said is such a ly, why did you feel you had to snip it out, without annotation, and without responding to it? you really are too stupid to be in the discussion, aren't you? you can't even discuss what you really think, if you do at all, what with the brain damage you must have. > You anti-vegetarians force meat on your kids. You force it on people > in public schools and universities and government. Your advertising > is forced in our face everywhere. ================== If it's 'forced' on everybody so badly, why aren't you eating it, fool? You really don't have a clue, do you? > > And you force YOUR beliefs and YOUR behaviors on animals > by forcing THEM to do what you want -- suffer and die in > a cage -- for your trivial little lust for burgers. ==================== Hey, what a coincedence, you cause more animals to die than I do. what's that say about your hypocrisy, killer? > > Throwing you in prison for the rest of your life, > or leaving you to die if you get a heart attack or stroke, > is the ONLY way to get your type to get this point through your > heads. ======================= Ah, again, the compassion just flows off the tougnes of AR'vegans, doesn't it? |
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Depression and veganism
yet another "vegan" misanthrope wrote:
> ROTFLMAO!! What a ****ing liar, you are! > I can hardly wait until you get your first heart attack. Feel the LOVE. Oh, what compassion. > I will jump for joy when you suffer and drop dead! Yes, you enjoy misfortune of humans while pretending to be compassionate for animals. I don't expect the light to go on in your head about what's wrong with that picture because you're mentally ill. > It will be hilarious for the medical staff to laugh at you > and tell you that they don't have to be told by YOU what to do. Fortunately, medical professionals tend to be a lot more compassionate than AR/vegan activists. > You anti-vegetarians force meat on your kids. Offer a kid the choice between meat and broccoli and he's more likely to take the meat. > You force it on people > in public schools and universities and government. Nobody forces anyone to eat certain kinds of food. Most institutions offer choices, and many even cater to individuals with specific religious, cultural, or medical needs. ARAs/vegans are the only group attempting to force anything on anyone. Meat sells because that's what people want to eat. > Your advertising is forced in our face everywhere. Just shut off your ****ing television if it bothers you so much, asshole. > And you force YOUR beliefs and YOUR behaviors on animals > by forcing THEM to do what you want -- suffer and die in > a cage -- for your trivial little lust for burgers. Tastes aren't trivial. Most of them are formed over many, many years of evolution. > Throwing you in prison for the rest of your life, Treat them the way you *think* they treat animals? Two wrongs make it right, huh. > or leaving you to die if you get a heart attack or stroke, Feel the love... > is the ONLY way to get your type to get this point through your > heads. Why can't you just learn to be tolerant of others, pencil dick? |
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Depression and veganism
On Fri, 07 Nov 2003 15:33:01 GMT, usual suspect > wrote:
>yet another "vegan" misanthrope wrote: >> ROTFLMAO!! What a ****ing liar, you are! >> I can hardly wait until you get your first heart attack. > >Feel the LOVE. Oh, what compassion. Why should anyone have compassion for you? you don't even love yourself. >> I will jump for joy when you suffer and drop dead! > >Yes, you enjoy misfortune of humans while pretending to be compassionate >for animals. I don't expect the light to go on in your head about what's >wrong with that picture because you're mentally ill. Typical abuser, doesn't mind abusing defenseless people and creatures, but when he gets abused he cries like a baby, how sick is that jon? >> It will be hilarious for the medical staff to laugh at you >> and tell you that they don't have to be told by YOU what to do. > >Fortunately, medical professionals tend to be a lot more compassionate >than AR/vegan activists. Very lucky for you then, you obese, pygmy, lard arse dwarf. Personally I'd let you die slowly in your own juices, scum like you don't deserve anything else. >> You anti-vegetarians force meat on your kids. > >Offer a kid the choice between meat and broccoli and he's more likely to >take the meat. > >> You force it on people >> in public schools and universities and government. > >Nobody forces anyone to eat certain kinds of food. Most institutions >offer choices, and many even cater to individuals with specific >religious, cultural, or medical needs. ARAs/vegans are the only group >attempting to force anything on anyone. Meat sells because that's what >people want to eat. > >> Your advertising is forced in our face everywhere. > >Just shut off your ****ing television if it bothers you so much, asshole. > >> And you force YOUR beliefs and YOUR behaviors on animals >> by forcing THEM to do what you want -- suffer and die in >> a cage -- for your trivial little lust for burgers. > >Tastes aren't trivial. Most of them are formed over many, many years of >evolution. > >> Throwing you in prison for the rest of your life, > >Treat them the way you *think* they treat animals? Two wrongs make it >right, huh. Oh yes they do, in your case. >> or leaving you to die if you get a heart attack or stroke, > >Feel the love... Getting worried fatty? They say it's a horrible, slow death. >> is the ONLY way to get your type to get this point through your >> heads. > >Why can't you just learn to be tolerant of others, pencil dick? Because your intolerance of animals and others cannot be allowed to continue, pervert. next you'll be asking us if it's OK to fiddle with your children, well it's not fatso. ********************************************** 'You can't win 'em all.' Lord Haw Haw. Since I stopped donating money to CONservation hooligan charities Like the RSPB, Woodland Trust and all the other fat cat charities I am in the top 0.801% richest people in the world. There are 5,951,930,035 people poorer than me If you're really interested I am the 48,069,965 richest person in the world. And I'm keeping the bloody lot. So sue me. http://www.globalrichlist.com/ Newsgroup ettiquette 1) Tell everyone the Trolls don't bother you. 2) Say you've killfiled them, yet continue to respond. 3) Tell other people off who repsond despite doing so yourself. 4) Continually talk about Trolls while maintaining they're having no effect. 5) Publicly post killfile rules so the Trolls know how to avoid them. 6) Make lame legal threats and other barrel scraping manoeuvres when your abuse reports are ignored. 7) Eat vast quantities of pies. 8) Forget to brush your teeth for several decades. 9) Help a demon.local poster with their email while secretly reading it. 10) Pretend you're a hard ******* when in fact you're as bent as a roundabout. 11) Become the laughing stock of Usenet like Mabbet 12) Die of old age 13) Keep paying Dr Chartham his fees and hope one day you will have a penis the girls can see. --------------------------------------- "If you would'nt talk to them in a bar, don't *uckin' vote for them" "Australia was not *discovered* it was invaded" The Big Yin. |
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Depression and veganism
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Depression and veganism
Rubystars wrote:
> (piddock) wrote in message . com>... > >>"rick etter" > wrote in message news:<clWpb.1601 >> >>>ROTFLMAO What a hoot! >> >>ROTFLMAO!! What a ****ing liar, you are! >>I can hardly wait until you get your first heart attack. >>I will jump for joy when you suffer and drop dead! > > > That's not very compassionate. What's the point in having a respect > for life (all life) if you tell someone that you wish they would drop > dead from a heart attack? He *doesn't* have a respect for all life. "vegans" are following a spurious hate-based philosophy. > > I may get flamed for saying this, but isn't a human life of more value > than a cow's? It is in my opinion. Why would you be happy if Rick died > but sad when a cow died? As a perversely racist and speciesist bigot, he *would* be happy in that development. .... > > Also a lot of food is grown for animal feed and I'm sure that a > certain amount of insects/rats/mice get killed in that process so I > don't see how choosing to eat meat reduces cruelty, It *could* reduce it, depending on the diet followed by the typical "vegan". Whether or not it does is irrelevant. "vegans" make an outlandish claim, and the hypothetical case Rick presents demolishes the claim. .... |
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Depression and veganism
"Rubystars" > wrote in message om... > (piddock) wrote in message . com>... > > "rick etter" > wrote in message news:<clWpb.1601 > > > ROTFLMAO What a hoot! > > > > ROTFLMAO!! What a ****ing liar, you are! > > I can hardly wait until you get your first heart attack. > > I will jump for joy when you suffer and drop dead! > > That's not very compassionate. What's the point in having a respect > for life (all life) if you tell someone that you wish they would drop > dead from a heart attack? > > I may get flamed for saying this, but isn't a human life of more value > than a cow's? It is in my opinion. Why would you be happy if Rick died > but sad when a cow died? > > I've been reading/posting to this group on and off and I know Rick > posts things that make people angry and seems to stir people up, but > you shouldn't let him get under your skin. He just has a different > opinion than other people here, even if he is deliberately trying to > get reactions. ================= Nope. Deliberatly trying to expose vegan ignorance and delusions. > > He's correct that animals die from all kinds of food production. Even > when I went to go pick wild dewberries with my dad in the field, we > had to wash all the caterpillars and other bugs off of them when we > got home. A few berries were discarded because I saw caterpillars > crawl out of them. I may have even eaten some of them without knowing > it, though I think most of the berries were clean (I broke many of > them in half to make sure *L*). > > A lot of the produce we buy at the store is also contaminated with > insects that we may unknowingly eat. And yeah, sometimes rats and mice > get chopped up during harvesting and processing of grains. ================== Millions and milllions. Plus the ones that are poisoned. Plus the ones that die for energy production in the petro-chemical industry that supports your veggies lifestyle. > > I don't think it's as big of a deal as Rick makes it out to be (I > mean, we are talking pests, mostly, and compassionate to animals or > not, pests need to be dealt with or they will ruin our food and spread > disease). =========================== The 'pests' I'm talking about are mammals, birds, reptiles, fish, and amphibians. Why are small mammals of less imporatance to vegans than cows, pigs, chickens? Now, if you want to add bugs to the list of animals that die for food, bring it on. You'll lose that numbers game for sure, hands down. Personally I feel that vegetable production is at least less > directly harmful to animals, not that it doesn't directly harm them, > but that the intent isn't to harm animals (just a thought). ======================== Doesn't directly harm them? Are you kidding? tell that to the massive numbers of animals that are deliberatly poisoned just to keep your veggies clean, cheap, and convenient. Also we > all need to eat plants to live and we don't all need to eat meat to > live. ======================== Yes, you do. Meat has nutrients that you cannot get from veggies, despite the delusional claims of others. So, many vegans take supplements. Where do these come from, manna from heaven? Their production is just another part of the death machine for vegans. So it's not like we can stop supporting the vegetable farmers > altogether, and they do an important job, not only feeding us but also > people in third world countries. ==================== We're not talking about feeding the world, just the hypocritical vegan loons. They make the claims that they care. They are the ones that *could* stop supporting farmers, but like you, most are too lazy and too consumer oriented to make the changes needed to actually live up to your stated goals. > > Also a lot of food is grown for animal feed and I'm sure that a > certain amount of insects/rats/mice get killed in that process so I > don't see how choosing to eat meat reduces cruelty, especially when > the direct source of the food is an animal's death. Even "organic" or > "free range" meat producers need suitable fields for grazing. ===================== And grazing kills what other animals? I suppose you crop fields are just there by magic? > > It is wrong however to say that your lifestyle is free from animal > use/exploitation. We all rely on animals to one degree or another. > Vegans IMO probably harm animals the least, despite Ritter's points > having some truth to them. ======================= A claim that vegans have neverbeen able to back up with any kind of proof. I can, however show you where millions and millions of animals die in particular phases of crop agriculture. snippage... > > > Throwing you in prison for the rest of your life, > > or leaving you to die if you get a heart attack or stroke, > > is the ONLY way to get your type to get this point through your > > heads. > > That makes you sound like a fanatic. Vegans and even vegetarians have > a bad reputation for being fanatical, for hating humans and loving > animals more than humans. Wouldn't it be much better to ignore him, or > to be kind to him, rather than to seem so vicious? ====================== He can't. His hatred is all he has. He knows his 'ethics' are a sham. so he has to hate those that remind him of that fact. > > -Rubystars |
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Depression and veganism
Why do some readers of this group assume all vegans have (or think
they have) a certain level of compassion, or eat according to their moral philosophy? That's like assuming anyone who's Christian is Christian because they want to go to heaven. It's a rather random assumption. This is a diet-related newsgroup by name. Everything else is assumption. |
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Depression and veganism
"rick etter" > wrote in message >...
> "Rubystars" > wrote in message > om... > > (piddock) wrote in message > . com>... > > > "rick etter" > wrote in message news:<clWpb.1601 > <snip lots of stuff> I just want to remind you Rick that I'm not a vegan and I'm not even a vegetarian yet, though I eat a lot less meat than I used to. I think most of what PETA says is pure BS, but I'm also skeptical of what you are saying. I don't think anyone has the complete truth. I do think that it's common sense that if you really have a moral objection to eating meat you shouldn't do it. Rats and mice are pests, and there's no shortage of them (quite the contrary). I don't think they should be tortured, but I don't see how getting chopped up in a machine (a harvester or a grain processor) could possibly be worse than the rat poison, coca cola, and flour mixed with concrete they're subjected to when they invade people's properties. It's probably a LOT more humane than that. I think what a lot of vegetarians object to is the fact that animals are raised for the express purpose of killing them. I don't really have a problem with that, if the animals are treated humanely in life and killed with little pain. However I do think that it's sad that people eat as much meat as they do. It's really not necessary to eat meat 3 or more times a day, and it's not healthy either. I may or may not go vegetarian later but I don't think that I'm going to be increasing animal suffering if I choose to do that. I really don't. The reason I replied though is that I was surprised at the fanatical responses you're getting. I guess I shouldn't be though. I knew if I thought someone was saying things to get a rise out of me I'd probably ignore them. > He can't. His hatred is all he has. He knows his 'ethics' are a sham. so > he has to hate those that remind him of that fact. I just think that if he wants to put a postive face on vegetarianism or veganism that he should treat other people nicely, even those he isn't fond of. I know that's not always easy and some flaming back and forth is probably permissible (since this is Usenet) but telling someone to drop dead from a heart attack goes way too far, IMO. I mean, we are talking about food here, it's not THAT darn important. -Rubystars |
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Depression and veganism
"Rubystars" > wrote in message om... > "rick etter" > wrote in message >... > > "Rubystars" > wrote in message > > om... > > > (piddock) wrote in message > > . com>... > > > > "rick etter" > wrote in message news:<clWpb.1601 > > > <snip lots of stuff> > > I just want to remind you Rick that I'm not a vegan and I'm not even a > vegetarian yet, though I eat a lot less meat than I used to. I think > most of what PETA says is pure BS, but I'm also skeptical of what you > are saying. I don't think anyone has the complete truth. I do think > that it's common sense that if you really have a moral objection to > eating meat you shouldn't do it. ================ Then don't. Nobody has ever said that anyone here *has* to eat meat. The reverse cannot be said of vegan loons here though. Just don't try to tell everyone it's because you're 'saving' animals. > > Rats and mice are pests, and there's no shortage of them (quite the > contrary). ================== Ther's no shortage of cows or chickens either. Is that the only critiria you have? Or is it just their size makes them less important as far as animal death and suffering are concerned? I don't think they should be tortured, but I don't see how > getting chopped up in a machine (a harvester or a grain processor) > could possibly be worse than the rat poison, coca cola, and flour > mixed with concrete they're subjected to when they invade people's > properties. It's probably a LOT more humane than that. ====================== Why these comparisons? the one you should be comparing them to are the animals that die in slaughterhouses. I'd say that those animals die a more humane death than any of the ones you mentioned. > > I think what a lot of vegetarians object to is the fact that animals > are raised for the express purpose of killing them. I don't really > have a problem with that, if the animals are treated humanely in life > and killed with little pain. ==================== As many are. The problem is your crop fields are just the ticket for fast population explosions of many animals. You can say they are raised expressly because of your food production. Increases that would not occur without your crops providing easy food and cover. then, just when the populations are at their peak, you take away all the food and cover. What do you think happens to these animals, that they just mosey over to the next field that's cut down? They are left without food and cover to die from starvation and predation. they all can't just go into the surrounding area because those areas will already be at their carrying capacity. > However I do think that it's sad that people eat as much meat as they > do. ====================== Do you really know how much? Or are you just guessing with your delusions from PeTA and their ilk? Even the typical American diet contains far more plant material than meats. About 200lbs of meat. about 400lbs of veggies, 200lbs of grains and cerials, and 100lbs of fruit. There is also 500+lbs of dairy, but that's neither meat nor veggie. It's really not necessary to eat meat 3 or more times a day, and > it's not healthy either. I may or may not go vegetarian later but I > don't think that I'm going to be increasing animal suffering if I > choose to do that. I really don't. ==================== But you refuse to even consider that as a possibility, nor will you even try to check it out, will you? Why? Afraid of what you'll discover? That's also part of the point. Vegans won't even try to determine which of their own foods cause less or more animals death and suffering. They just assume that it's all nice and cruelty free. > > The reason I replied though is that I was surprised at the fanatical > responses you're getting. I guess I shouldn't be though. I knew if I > thought someone was saying things to get a rise out of me I'd probably > ignore them. ======================== Nope. I'm not replying to get a 'rise' out of any body. I just want to present the truth. Something vegans are ashamed of apparently since all they spew are lys and delusions. > > > > He can't. His hatred is all he has. He knows his 'ethics' are a sham. so > > he has to hate those that remind him of that fact. > > I just think that if he wants to put a postive face on vegetarianism > or veganism that he should treat other people nicely, even those he > isn't fond of. I know that's not always easy and some flaming back and > forth is probably permissible (since this is Usenet) but telling > someone to drop dead from a heart attack goes way too far, IMO. I > mean, we are talking about food here, it's not THAT darn important. ===================== But that's part of the point. Vegans will claim that their diet 'saves' all those animals. They've never checked it out, and can't prove it, but they make the claims anyway. the fact is, their, and your, and my diets are far from having the greatest impact on animal death and suffering. There are far more things in our lifestyles that contribute to animal death and suffering than just from whatever we eat. case in point, your posts to usenet are not cruelty free. > > -Rubystars |
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Depression and veganism
"rick etter" > wrote in message >...
> "Rubystars" > wrote in message > om... > > "rick etter" > wrote in message > >... > > > "Rubystars" > wrote in message > > > om... > > > > (piddock) wrote in message > . com>... > > > > > "rick etter" > wrote in message > news:<clWpb.1601 > > > > > <snip lots of stuff> > > > > I just want to remind you Rick that I'm not a vegan and I'm not even a > > vegetarian yet, though I eat a lot less meat than I used to. I think > > most of what PETA says is pure BS, but I'm also skeptical of what you > > are saying. I don't think anyone has the complete truth. I do think > > that it's common sense that if you really have a moral objection to > > eating meat you shouldn't do it. > ================ > Then don't. Nobody has ever said that anyone here *has* to eat meat. The > reverse cannot be said of vegan loons here though. Just don't try to tell > everyone it's because you're 'saving' animals. I don't know what the numbers come out to, but > > > > Rats and mice are pests, and there's no shortage of them (quite the > > contrary). > ================== > Ther's no shortage of cows or chickens either. Is that the only critiria > you have? Or is it just their size makes them less important as far as > animal death and suffering are concerned? Size doesn't have anything to do with it. Show me a 30 foot cockroach and I'll need a big-ass can of RAID. With that said, I think people have the right to decide which animals they value over others. Dogs, cats, and horses mean a LOT more to me than some chicken on a farm, for example. Everyone has different values, so if someone values cows and chickens over rats, then so be it. The only thing that really ****es me off is when people value humans lower than other animals. > > I don't think they should be tortured, but I don't see how > > getting chopped up in a machine (a harvester or a grain processor) > > could possibly be worse than the rat poison, coca cola, and flour > > mixed with concrete they're subjected to when they invade people's > > properties. It's probably a LOT more humane than that. > ====================== > Why these comparisons? the one you should be comparing them to are the > animals that die in slaughterhouses. > I'd say that those animals die a more humane death than any of the ones you > mentioned. I'm comparing them to the other rats because rats are pests. If they're allowed to live where we are, they spread disease and spoil food and chew holes in our dwellings. I don't want them to suffer any more than I do any other animal, but if you're going to kill a rat a harvester doesn't sound like the worst thing that could happen to it. And unfortunately rats do need to be killed when they're causing problems. Animals that die in slaughterhouses are often killed humanely but sometimes they're not. I'm not getting that from some ARA web site either, I've been reading guidelines on how to slaughter cows and the idea of "return to sensibility" is covered. Apparently sometimes after the animals are stunned they can come back around and be in pain and have to be stunned again. > > I think what a lot of vegetarians object to is the fact that animals > > are raised for the express purpose of killing them. I don't really > > have a problem with that, if the animals are treated humanely in life > > and killed with little pain. > ==================== > As many are. The problem is your crop fields are just the ticket for fast > population explosions of many animals. You can say they are raised > expressly because of your food production. Increases that would not occur > without your crops providing easy food and cover. >then, just when the > populations are at their peak, you take away all the food and cover. What > do you think happens to these animals, that they just mosey over to the > next field that's cut down? They are left without food and cover to die > from starvation and predation. they all can't just go into the surrounding > area because those areas will already be at their carrying capacity. This happens throughout nature though, species tend to have more young than can survive. Just look at a Tasmanian devil mother. She has many offspring that are born, around 30, but only two nipples. The rest starve, die of exposure, or are licked up by the mother. Humans don't deliberately raise rats in crop fields, but rats have adapted to the new environment there, and it has been beneficial to the species as a whole. > > However I do think that it's sad that people eat as much meat as they > > do. > ====================== > Do you really know how much? Or are you just guessing with your delusions > from PeTA and their ilk? Even the typical American diet contains far more > plant material than meats. About 200lbs of meat. about 400lbs of veggies, > 200lbs of grains and cerials, and 100lbs of fruit. There is also 500+lbs of > dairy, but that's neither meat nor veggie. I have little to no respect for PETA. They may do a good thing every once in a while but on the whole I think they do more harm than good, mostly by confusing the public in regards to what is "Animal Rights" and what is "Animal Welfare." Animal welfarists have to deal with people who think that they're just like the PETA folks. I'm in favor of animal use, just not abuse. > It's really not necessary to eat meat 3 or more times a day, and > > it's not healthy either. I may or may not go vegetarian later but I > > don't think that I'm going to be increasing animal suffering if I > > choose to do that. I really don't. > ==================== > But you refuse to even consider that as a possibility, nor will you even try > to check it out, will you? Why? Afraid of what you'll discover? > That's also part of the point. Vegans won't even try to determine which of > their own foods cause less or more animals death and suffering. They just > assume that it's all nice and cruelty free. Most people can't follow a vegan diet because it's so much of a hassle. As an experiment I tried to do it for two weeks and there was almost NOTHING at the regular grocery store that was free of animal products. All the breakfast cereals and pancake mixes had whey, for example. Breads either had whey or egg glaze, or something else similar to that. Almost everything you can think of that doesn't have meat in it has some milk, honey, or eggs, or a derivative thereof. It made me realize why those who try to go on such a diet and don't do it correctly, by finding the right balance of nutrients and using supplementation, can really make themselves malnourished. With all that in mind, it made me realize that those who do follow a vegan diet do it because they really have a commitment to their beliefs. It takes effort to find vegan-friendly foods! If I was to do it out here, I'd have to go to a health food store just to find enough of them. And God only knows how much money that would cost. (Vegetarian foods are pretty easy though.) Add that on to the lifestyle changes that many vegans make to reduce their consumption of animal products, for example, leather shoes (which, by the way, were the only pair I could find that fit me at Wal-Mart), wool sweaters (Wool stays warm even when wet, but they must use alternative materials), seashell jewelry, paintbrushes made with hair, among other things. My point is that they must, by necessity, put so much research and effort into living their lifestyle that it seems sad for you to refer to them as lazy or unmotivated. I agree with you that they are not eliminating totally their impact on animals, but I think with all that, they must at least be reducing it. > > > > The reason I replied though is that I was surprised at the fanatical > > responses you're getting. I guess I shouldn't be though. I knew if I > > thought someone was saying things to get a rise out of me I'd probably > > ignore them. > ======================== > Nope. I'm not replying to get a 'rise' out of any body. I just want to > present the truth. Something vegans are ashamed of apparently since all > they spew are lys and delusions. I'm skeptical of both sides, Rick. Maybe you just have a different way of viewing the situation than they do, though. I think they do the best they can with the knowledge and resources they have. I think it's unreasonable to pretend like they are not causing animal deaths, I agree with you on that. However, I think it's unreasonable to ask people to further restrict an already heavily restrictive diet and lifestyle and to expect people who are already heavily committed to become more so. There's only so much the average person can do, and most of these people have gone beyond average as far as going out of their way to follow this lifestyle. No one's perfect. Is it a lie that they're free of animal exploitation? Yes, it's a lie! I agree with you there. That doesn't mean they aren't doing something good for animals. > But that's part of the point. Vegans will claim that their diet 'saves' all > those animals. They've never checked it out, and can't prove it, but they > make the claims anyway. the fact is, their, and your, and my diets are far > from having the greatest impact on animal death and suffering. There are > far more things in our lifestyles that contribute to animal death and > suffering than just from whatever we eat. case in point, your posts to > usenet are not cruelty free. Yeah I know that. The way I see it though, communication really helps a lot of humans, so that's pretty important in itself. I guess there are trade offs in everything. -Rubystars |
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Depression and veganism
On 8 Nov 2003 08:08:01 -0800, (Rubystars)
wrote: >"rick etter" > wrote in message >... >> "Rubystars" > wrote in message >> om... >> > "rick etter" > wrote in message >> >... >> > > "Rubystars" > wrote in message >> > > om... >> > > > (piddock) wrote in message >> . com>... >> > > > > "rick etter" > wrote in message >> news:<clWpb.1601 >> > > >> > <snip lots of stuff> >> > >> > I just want to remind you Rick that I'm not a vegan and I'm not even a >> > vegetarian yet, though I eat a lot less meat than I used to. I think >> > most of what PETA says is pure BS, but I'm also skeptical of what you >> > are saying. I don't think anyone has the complete truth. I do think >> > that it's common sense that if you really have a moral objection to >> > eating meat you shouldn't do it. >> ================ >> Then don't. Nobody has ever said that anyone here *has* to eat meat. The >> reverse cannot be said of vegan loons here though. Just don't try to tell >> everyone it's because you're 'saving' animals. > >I don't know what the numbers come out to, but >> > >> > Rats and mice are pests, and there's no shortage of them (quite the >> > contrary). >> ================== >> Ther's no shortage of cows or chickens either. Is that the only critiria >> you have? Or is it just their size makes them less important as far as >> animal death and suffering are concerned? > >Size doesn't have anything to do with it. Show me a 30 foot cockroach >and I'll need a big-ass can of RAID. With that said, I think people >have the right to decide which animals they value over others. Dogs, >cats, and horses mean a LOT more to me than some chicken on a farm, >for example. Everyone has different values, so if someone values cows >and chickens over rats, then so be it. The only thing that really >****es me off is when people value humans lower than other animals. Then you are an arse. No one needs to make any such comparisons but a fool. We can live quite happily side, by side with animals, we do NOT need to eat them, we do NOT need to abuse them. just because a rat is a rat doesn't mean we have a right to kill it on a whim, 90% of pest control is pre-emptive and completely unnecessary. It's like banning cars to save children from being run over, borne of stupidity and ignorance, that people seem to thrive on. Fact is if we were not such a dirty, lazy shits then rats and cockroaches would not be a problem. I know I am living quite happily wth no pest control measures in my life at all and always will. >> I don't think they should be tortured, but I don't see how >> > getting chopped up in a machine (a harvester or a grain processor) >> > could possibly be worse than the rat poison, coca cola, and flour >> > mixed with concrete they're subjected to when they invade people's >> > properties. It's probably a LOT more humane than that. >> ====================== >> Why these comparisons? the one you should be comparing them to are the >> animals that die in slaughterhouses. >> I'd say that those animals die a more humane death than any of the ones you >> mentioned. > >I'm comparing them to the other rats because rats are pests. So are humans. > If >they're allowed to live where we are, They do live here already, that will never change. > they spread disease and spoil >food and chew holes in our dwellings. Onl;y when dirty humans let them. > I don't want them to suffer any >more than I do any other animal, but if you're going to kill a rat a >harvester doesn't sound like the worst thing that could happen to it. >And unfortunately rats do need to be killed when they're causing >problems. No they don't, the problem is the dirty human. >Animals that die in slaughterhouses are often killed humanely but >sometimes they're not. I'm not getting that from some ARA web site >either, I've been reading guidelines on how to slaughter cows and the >idea of "return to sensibility" is covered. Apparently sometimes after >the animals are stunned they can come back around and be in pain and >have to be stunned again. Indeed. It's cruel and the ultimate abuse of an animal. >> > I think what a lot of vegetarians object to is the fact that animals >> > are raised for the express purpose of killing them. I don't really >> > have a problem with that, if the animals are treated humanely in life >> > and killed with little pain. >> ==================== >> As many are. The problem is your crop fields are just the ticket for fast >> population explosions of many animals. You can say they are raised >> expressly because of your food production. Increases that would not occur >> without your crops providing easy food and cover. >>then, just when the >> populations are at their peak, you take away all the food and cover. What >> do you think happens to these animals, that they just mosey over to the >> next field that's cut down? They are left without food and cover to die >> from starvation and predation. they all can't just go into the surrounding >> area because those areas will already be at their carrying capacity. > >This happens throughout nature though, species tend to have more young >than can survive. Just look at a Tasmanian devil mother. She has many >offspring that are born, around 30, but only two nipples. The rest >starve, die of exposure, or are licked up by the mother. > >Humans don't deliberately raise rats in crop fields, but rats have >adapted to the new environment there, and it has been beneficial to >the species as a whole. > >> > However I do think that it's sad that people eat as much meat as they >> > do. >> ====================== >> Do you really know how much? Or are you just guessing with your delusions >> from PeTA and their ilk? Even the typical American diet contains far more >> plant material than meats. About 200lbs of meat. about 400lbs of veggies, >> 200lbs of grains and cerials, and 100lbs of fruit. There is also 500+lbs of >> dairy, but that's neither meat nor veggie. > >I have little to no respect for PETA. They may do a good thing every >once in a while but on the whole I think they do more harm than good, >mostly by confusing the public in regards to what is "Animal Rights" >and what is "Animal Welfare." Animal welfarists have to deal with >people who think that they're just like the PETA folks. > >I'm in favor of animal use, just not abuse. > >> It's really not necessary to eat meat 3 or more times a day, and >> > it's not healthy either. I may or may not go vegetarian later but I >> > don't think that I'm going to be increasing animal suffering if I >> > choose to do that. I really don't. >> ==================== >> But you refuse to even consider that as a possibility, nor will you even try >> to check it out, will you? Why? Afraid of what you'll discover? >> That's also part of the point. Vegans won't even try to determine which of >> their own foods cause less or more animals death and suffering. They just >> assume that it's all nice and cruelty free. > >Most people can't follow a vegan diet because it's so much of a >hassle. As an experiment I tried to do it for two weeks and there was >almost NOTHING at the regular grocery store that was free of animal >products. It's how we have been conditioned, do you not see that? > All the breakfast cereals and pancake mixes had whey, for >example. Breads either had whey or egg glaze, or something else >similar to that. Almost everything you can think of that doesn't have >meat in it has some milk, honey, or eggs, or a derivative thereof. Rubbish. A veggie diet is well catered for today, but no excuse for being lazy and doing your own food preparations. >It made me realize why those who try to go on such a diet and don't do >it correctly, by finding the right balance of nutrients and using >supplementation, can really make themselves malnourished. > >With all that in mind, it made me realize that those who do follow a >vegan diet do it because they really have a commitment to their >beliefs. It takes effort to find vegan-friendly foods! If I was to do >it out here, I'd have to go to a health food store just to find enough >of them. And God only knows how much money that would cost. >(Vegetarian foods are pretty easy though.) No one said caring for yourself and the planet was easy. >Add that on to the lifestyle changes that many vegans make to reduce >their consumption of animal products, for example, leather shoes >(which, by the way, were the only pair I could find that fit me at >Wal-Mart), wool sweaters (Wool stays warm even when wet, but they must >use alternative materials), seashell jewelry, paintbrushes made with >hair, among other things. > >My point is that they must, by necessity, put so much research and >effort into living their lifestyle that it seems sad for you to refer >to them as lazy or unmotivated. I agree with you that they are not >eliminating totally their impact on animals, but I think with all >that, they must at least be reducing it. Indeed, one can but try their best. Fat slugs like no balls have an agenda and nothing will change their minds. >> > >> > The reason I replied though is that I was surprised at the fanatical >> > responses you're getting. I guess I shouldn't be though. I knew if I >> > thought someone was saying things to get a rise out of me I'd probably >> > ignore them. >> ======================== >> Nope. I'm not replying to get a 'rise' out of any body. I just want to >> present the truth. Something vegans are ashamed of apparently since all >> they spew are lys and delusions. > >I'm skeptical of both sides, Rick. Rick is a dick. >Maybe you just have a different way >of viewing the situation than they do, though. I think they do the >best they can with the knowledge and resources they have. I think it's >unreasonable to pretend like they are not causing animal deaths, I >agree with you on that. However, I think it's unreasonable to ask >people to further restrict an already heavily restrictive diet and >lifestyle and to expect people who are already heavily committed to >become more so. There's only so much the average person can do, and >most of these people have gone beyond average as far as going out of >their way to follow this lifestyle. > >No one's perfect. Is it a lie that they're free of animal >exploitation? Yes, it's a lie! I agree with you there. That doesn't >mean they aren't doing something good for animals. > >> But that's part of the point. Vegans will claim that their diet 'saves' all >> those animals. They've never checked it out, and can't prove it, but they >> make the claims anyway. the fact is, their, and your, and my diets are far >> from having the greatest impact on animal death and suffering. There are >> far more things in our lifestyles that contribute to animal death and >> suffering than just from whatever we eat. case in point, your posts to >> usenet are not cruelty free. > >Yeah I know that. The way I see it though, communication really helps >a lot of humans, so that's pretty important in itself. I guess there >are trade offs in everything. > >-Rubystars ********************************************** 'You can't win 'em all.' Lord Haw Haw. Since I stopped donating money to CONservation hooligan charities Like the RSPB, Woodland Trust and all the other fat cat charities I am in the top 0.801% richest people in the world. There are 5,951,930,035 people poorer than me If you're really interested I am the 48,069,965 richest person in the world. And I'm keeping the bloody lot. So sue me. http://www.globalrichlist.com/ Newsgroup ettiquette 1) Tell everyone the Trolls don't bother you. 2) Say you've killfiled them, yet continue to respond. 3) Tell other people off who repsond despite doing so yourself. 4) Continually talk about Trolls while maintaining they're having no effect. 5) Publicly post killfile rules so the Trolls know how to avoid them. 6) Make lame legal threats and other barrel scraping manoeuvres when your abuse reports are ignored. 7) Eat vast quantities of pies. 8) Forget to brush your teeth for several decades. 9) Help a demon.local poster with their email while secretly reading it. 10) Pretend you're a hard ******* when in fact you're as bent as a roundabout. 11) Become the laughing stock of Usenet like Mabbet 12) Die of old age 13) Keep paying Dr Chartham his fees and hope one day you will have a penis the girls can see. --------------------------------------- "If you would'nt talk to them in a bar, don't *uckin' vote for them" "Australia was not *discovered* it was invaded" The Big Yin. |
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Depression and veganism
LoadofSnot wrote:
>>Size doesn't have anything to do with it. Show me a 30 foot cockroach >>and I'll need a big-ass can of RAID. With that said, I think people >>have the right to decide which animals they value over others. Dogs, >>cats, and horses mean a LOT more to me than some chicken on a farm, >>for example. Everyone has different values, so if someone values cows >>and chickens over rats, then so be it. The only thing that really >>****es me off is when people value humans lower than other animals. > > Then you are an arse. No one needs to make any such comparisons but a > fool. You do it all the time. Fool. > We can live quite happily side, by side with animals, we do NOT > need to eat them, Many people like the way they taste. Meat is food. > we do NOT need to abuse them. We're not talking about abusing them, just keeping their populations at manageable, tolerable levels. > just because a rat is > a rat doesn't mean we have a right to kill it on a whim, Yes, we do. > 90% of pest control is pre-emptive and completely unnecessary. According to whom? > It's like banning > cars to save children from being run over, borne of stupidity and > ignorance, that people seem to thrive on. Non sequitur. > Fact is if we were not such a dirty, lazy shits then rats and > cockroaches would not be a problem. I know I am living quite happily > wth no pest control measures in my life at all and always will. Spoken like a true misanthrope. >>I'm comparing them to the other rats because rats are pests. > > So are humans. You love animals, and detest people. Yes, you are compassionate. Haha. <snip> >>Animals that die in slaughterhouses are often killed humanely but >>sometimes they're not. I'm not getting that from some ARA web site >>either, I've been reading guidelines on how to slaughter cows and the >>idea of "return to sensibility" is covered. Apparently sometimes after >>the animals are stunned they can come back around and be in pain and >>have to be stunned again. > > Indeed. It's cruel and the ultimate abuse of an animal. The ultimate abuse is for an animal to be used as a political pawn by someone like you. You don't REALLY care about animals, you just REALLY hate humans. <snip> >>Most people can't follow a vegan diet because it's so much of a >>hassle. As an experiment I tried to do it for two weeks and there was >>almost NOTHING at the regular grocery store that was free of animal >>products. > > It's how we have been conditioned, do you not see that? Conditioning plays only a small role in it. Most tastes are universal, and part of our evolution. Repulsion of extreme bitter flavors is a mechanism which helps us to avoid poisons. <snip> |
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Depression and veganism
Actually I'm not Jonathan. I've really seen people seem to become more
depressed on a vegan diet, even with all sorts of variety and supplementation. This was my first post to these groups. |
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Depression and veganism
After they went vegan, but she probably isn't getting enough Omega3
from what I've seen her eat, I'll tell her about that. Thanks. |
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Depression and veganism
tofubar wrote:
> After they went vegan, but she probably isn't getting enough Omega3 > from what I've seen her eat, I'll tell her about that. Thanks. Also check for anemia. That's a far more likely culprit for moodiness in someone who's made significant dietary changes. |
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Depression and veganism
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Depression and veganism
punk wrote:
>>That's not very compassionate. What's the point in having a respect >>for life (all life) if you tell someone that you wish they would drop >>dead from a heart attack? > > Because it is MY RIGHT to have compassion or not for whomever I want, > because Rick Etter, Usual Suspect, Radical Moderate, and Dutch all do > the same. They You have the RIGHT, but WHEN did any of the individuals you named wish yuo to drop dead or suffer bodily harm in any form or fashion? >>I may get flamed for saying this, but isn't a human life of more value >>than a cow's? It is in my opinion. Why would you be happy if Rick died >>but sad when a cow died? > > Because it is MY RIGHT to do that. *I* do not hurt anybody by wishing > anti-vegetarians like them dead. ALL that matters to THEM is THEIR > right to torture and kill for no other reason than it tastes or feels > good, even when they have plenty of choices. Their lives have no > value. More value than yours. > THEY claim to be "pro-human". That makes them the GREATEST HYPOCRITES > of ALL, because THEY ARE FURIOUSLY DETERMINED TO DO NOTHING BUT > INSULT AND GIVE ANIMAL RIGHTS ACTIVISTS, who are HUMAN BEINGS, ARE > HARD TIME AND MAKE THEIR LIVES POOR AND MISERABLE. You pussy! You've been asked repeatedly to back up your wild-assed claims, and you can't. You've been asked repeatedly to address issues, and you won't. Then you resort to the lowest and most base insults, wishing harm -- indeed, DEATH -- upon others. If you cannot support your claims or address issues, perhaps you should tone down your overheated rhetoric until you can. Wishing harm upon others like you did doesn't score you ANY points. Rubystars is hardly a troll, and her questions about your twisted desires for Rick's demise are fair. She deserves better answers than you've given, but I think she's wise enough not to expect them from a hateful prat like you. >>I've been reading/posting to this group on and off and I know Rick >>posts things that make people angry and seems to stir people up, but >>you shouldn't let him get under your skin. He just has a different >>opinion than other people here, even if he is deliberately trying to >>get reactions. > > Good. So then if I wish Rick Etter dead, or if some person wanted the > entire human race wiped off the earth (such persons do exist, but none > of them want humans exterminated for the benefit of animals -- usually > they have some abstract religious reason), then THAT should not get > under your skin, right? > > So please do NOT pretend that ANYthing *I* say "bothers" you. > Because, based upon your anything goes attitude, I know that it does > not, and that for you to say otherwise is a lie. Your hateful attitude mixed with your misplaced pride will not let you admit that you're just plain wrong. Rubystars is a very nice young lady. Her questions were fair and deserve a better answer than this. Try again, you hate-filled twerp. >>Meat eating is the way that humans have lived since before we were >>humans. I don't really see that as "forcing" it on the kids. > > Face the hard reality: EVERY kid is forced into existence by their > parents. Even people of the most diverse political opinions agree > on that. Logical fallacy of appealing to popularity. It's also not truly a "reality." It *is* your opinion, but you've already demonstrated yourself to be misanthropic (extremely so). Your spiteful bias isn't shared universally. >>is provided there. If meat wasn't provided, then people would have to >>go off campus for lunch or bring a bagged lunch, because most people >>don't want to go vegetarian. > > So? Let them. Let them what? >>That would be catering to the minority at >>the expense of the majority if meat wasn't available. > > No. The animals are in the majority. Their PAIN is in the majority > -- it simply annihilates in importance all these other petty little > desires many meat-eaters have. Tastes are not petty. It took millions of years of evolution for people to acquire them. You're not going to thwart all that evolution with a wave of your magic wand. >>Now if there's >>ever a time when meat eating is in the minority, then there may be a >>better case for not having it available. > > That will occur only because of the efforts and dedicated work of > people like me and other animal activists. Bullshit. You and other animal activists are considered a joke by the mainstream. You're marginalized. You're not even in the mainstream of leftist thought, you little putz. > It will never come about > by any of your posts talking about what the majority wants. > You are not saying anything new nor anything that needs to be said. Neither are you, hate-meister. > There are PLENTY of OTHER things the majority of humans > wants which it DOES get: television, running water, electricity, > a million other things in our daily lifestyles. Meat is only a small > one for them, but a big one for the animals. It's a bigger one for humans. All that evolution and taste. We're predators, animals are our prey whether they're wild or domesticated. >>We all use animals to one degree or another. I don't think it makes >>someone a terrible person if they want to eat meat. >>That makes you sound like a fanatic. Vegans and even vegetarians have >>a bad reputation for being fanatical, for hating humans and loving > > And being a fanatic does not make a person terrible. In your case, it does. > If you tell me or anyone else that a meat-eater is not a bad > person even if they have better choices, then I will tell you that > NObody is a bad person. Period. Non sequitur, but you rarely make coherent arguments. >>animals more than humans. Wouldn't it be much better to ignore him, or >>to be kind to him, rather than to seem so vicious? > > No -- because, again, if HE can state HIS opinion, then I can, too. He gives you facts, you give him a death wish. > But, your brain is so fanatically obsessed with telling pro-animal > people what to say or not say or do or not do that nobody will listen > to you or take you seriously. More people take her seriously because her arguments aren't laced with threats and wishes for harm. Your arguments aren't even worthy of consideration since they lack facts and reason, all you have are your hateful wishes for others. > P.S. If a majority of adults wanted sex with children, obviously > you would support their right to do it, wouldn't you, since majority > rule is all that matters. And sex with children is not nearly as bad > as deliberately torturing someone by forcing a feeding tube down their > throat while keeping them in a cage their entire lives. Non sequitur, jelly-head. Stop sniffing glue. And keep reading, lol. > Even the Libertarian Party does not blindly approve of majority rule. You moron, that's not a non-issue. The LP, like other political parties, respects the political processes of our government which afford protections to political minorities. That's especially true in their case since they ARE a political minority. BTW, maybe you need to brush up on the LP-USA's position on children and sex: [W]e call for the repeal of all laws that restrict anyone, including children, from engaging in voluntary exchanges of goods, services, or information regarding human sexuality, reproduction, birth control, or related medical or biological technologies. http://tinyurl.com/u7xh There has long been a faction in the LP which supports abolishing distinctions between minor and adult with respect to the law. The effect would make child pornography legal, as well as sexual relations between consulting "minors" and adults. That side has won out in the LP's platform. > The LP does not say, "Get rid of homosexuality if a majority of people > want no homosexuals in their country." *No* political party says that, asswipe. |
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Depression and veganism
"piddock" > wrote
> (Rubystars) wrote > > > That's not very compassionate. What's the point in having a respect > > for life (all life) if you tell someone that you wish they would drop > > dead from a heart attack? > > Because it is MY RIGHT to have compassion or not for whomever I want, > because Rick Etter, Usual Suspect, Radical Moderate, and Dutch all do > the same. Except you are posing as a super-compassionate person, a pose which is obviously a self-serving lie. > > I may get flamed for saying this, but isn't a human life of more value > > than a cow's? It is in my opinion. Why would you be happy if Rick died > > but sad when a cow died? > > Because it is MY RIGHT to do that. That's not an answer. > *I* do not hurt anybody by wishing > anti-vegetarians like them dead. You demonstrate the mean-spirited, human-hating ethic at the core of veganism, so in fact you're doing us all a favour, thanks. > ALL that matters to THEM is THEIR > right to torture and kill for no other reason than it tastes or feels > good, That's untrue, animal products are also highly nutritious. > even when they have plenty of choices. You're making selfish choices right now and every day that have a negative impact on animals. > Their lives have no value. Thanks again for demonstrating the true nature of veganism. > THEY claim to be "pro-human". That makes them the GREATEST HYPOCRITES > of ALL, because THEY ARE FURIOUSLY DETERMINED TO DO NOTHING BUT > INSULT AND GIVE ANIMAL RIGHTS ACTIVISTS, who are HUMAN BEINGS, ARE > HARD TIME AND MAKE THEIR LIVES POOR AND MISERABLE. Quit whining you pathetic heap of hate. > > I've been reading/posting to this group on and off and I know Rick > > posts things that make people angry and seems to stir people up, but > > you shouldn't let him get under your skin. He just has a different > > opinion than other people here, even if he is deliberately trying to > > get reactions. -snip irrational crap- > No. The animals are in the majority. Their PAIN is in the majority > -- it simply annihilates in importance all these other petty little > desires many meat-eaters have. Your diet and the rest of your comfort-based western lifestyle causes unending death to animals. Pointing the fingers self-righteously at others is a drug, nothing more. > > Now if there's > > ever a time when meat eating is in the minority, then there may be a > > better case for not having it available. > > That will occur only because of the efforts and dedicated work of > people like me and other animal activists. It will never come about > by any of your posts talking about what the majority wants. > You are not saying anything new nor anything that needs to be said. > > There are PLENTY of OTHER things the majority of humans > wants which it DOES get: television, running water, electricity, > a million other things in our daily lifestyles. Meat is only a small > one for them, but a big one for the animals. No it isn't. All those other benefits have at least as great an impact on animals. You consider them "benefits" though, while considering meat unecessary. The reasoning is focused on creating a moral pedestal for yourself, nothing more. > > We all use animals to one degree or another. I don't think it makes > > someone a terrible person if they want to eat meat. > > > That makes you sound like a fanatic. Vegans and even vegetarians have > > a bad reputation for being fanatical, for hating humans and loving > > And being a fanatic does not make a person terrible. In this case it makes you a self-righteous creep. > If you tell me or anyone else that a meat-eater is not a bad > person even if they have better choices, then I will tell you that > NObody is a bad person. Period. Why are meat-eaters bad people for making choices that cause harm to animals and you are NOT? > > animals more than humans. Wouldn't it be much better to ignore him, or > > to be kind to him, rather than to seem so vicious? > > No -- because, again, if HE can state HIS opinion, then I can, too. > But, your brain is so fanatically obsessed with telling pro-animal > people what to say or not say or do or not do that nobody will listen > to you or take you seriously. Do you think YOU are taken seriously? You have the mentality of an adolescent. -snip more ranting- |
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Depression and veganism
"LordSnooty" > wrote in message ... > On 8 Nov 2003 08:08:01 -0800, (Rubystars) > wrote: > > >"rick etter" > wrote in message >... > >> "Rubystars" > wrote in message > >> om... > >> > "rick etter" > wrote in message > >> >... > >> > > "Rubystars" > wrote in message > >> > > om... > >> > > > (piddock) wrote in message > >> . com>... > >> > > > > "rick etter" > wrote in message > >> news:<clWpb.1601 > >> > > > >> > <snip lots of stuff> > >> > > >> > I just want to remind you Rick that I'm not a vegan and I'm not even a > >> > vegetarian yet, though I eat a lot less meat than I used to. I think > >> > most of what PETA says is pure BS, but I'm also skeptical of what you > >> > are saying. I don't think anyone has the complete truth. I do think > >> > that it's common sense that if you really have a moral objection to > >> > eating meat you shouldn't do it. > >> ================ > >> Then don't. Nobody has ever said that anyone here *has* to eat meat. The > >> reverse cannot be said of vegan loons here though. Just don't try to tell > >> everyone it's because you're 'saving' animals. > > > >I don't know what the numbers come out to, but > >> > > >> > Rats and mice are pests, and there's no shortage of them (quite the > >> > contrary). > >> ================== > >> Ther's no shortage of cows or chickens either. Is that the only critiria > >> you have? Or is it just their size makes them less important as far as > >> animal death and suffering are concerned? > > > >Size doesn't have anything to do with it. Show me a 30 foot cockroach > >and I'll need a big-ass can of RAID. With that said, I think people > >have the right to decide which animals they value over others. Dogs, > >cats, and horses mean a LOT more to me than some chicken on a farm, > >for example. Everyone has different values, so if someone values cows > >and chickens over rats, then so be it. The only thing that really > >****es me off is when people value humans lower than other animals. > > Then you are an arse. ====================== You should know, right? No one needs to make any such comparisons but a > fool. We can live quite happily side, by side with animals, we do NOT > need to eat them, we do NOT need to abuse them. ======================== Yet you do, continuously, and just for your selfish pleasure and entertainment. just because a rat is > a rat doesn't mean we have a right to kill it on a whim, 90% of pest > control is pre-emptive and completely unnecessary. ========================= yet you condone it, and reward those that do it. It's like banning > cars to save children from being run over, borne of stupidity and > ignorance, that people seem to thrive on. ====================== That you should really know all about. Ignorance and stupidity is your stock-n-trade, killer. > Fact is if we were not such a dirty, lazy shits then rats and > cockroaches would not be a problem. I know I am living quite happily > wth no pest control measures in my life at all and always will. ====================== Liar. All your life is dictated by animal death and suffering. You can't even post your insanity to usenet without causing death and suffering you fool. > > >> I don't think they should be tortured, but I don't see how > >> > getting chopped up in a machine (a harvester or a grain processor) > >> > could possibly be worse than the rat poison, coca cola, and flour > >> > mixed with concrete they're subjected to when they invade people's > >> > properties. It's probably a LOT more humane than that. > >> ====================== > >> Why these comparisons? the one you should be comparing them to are the > >> animals that die in slaughterhouses. > >> I'd say that those animals die a more humane death than any of the ones you > >> mentioned. > > > >I'm comparing them to the other rats because rats are pests. > > So are humans. ================= Yes, many of you are... snip of rest of snottys ignorant rants... |
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Depression and veganism
"piddock" > wrote in message om... > (Rubystars) wrote in message . com>... > > > That's not very compassionate. What's the point in having a respect > > for life (all life) if you tell someone that you wish they would drop > > dead from a heart attack? > > Because it is MY RIGHT to have compassion or not for whomever I want, > because Rick Etter, Usual Suspect, Radical Moderate, and Dutch all do > the same. They > > > > I may get flamed for saying this, but isn't a human life of more value > > than a cow's? It is in my opinion. Why would you be happy if Rick died > > but sad when a cow died? > > Because it is MY RIGHT to do that. *I* do not hurt anybody by wishing > anti-vegetarians like them dead. ALL that matters to THEM is THEIR > right to torture and kill for no other reason than it tastes or feels > good, even when they have plenty of choices. Their lives have no > value. ======================== Hey, imagine that, what a coincidence, that's all you live by too, torturing and killing animals for your frivolous whims. You really are too stupid for this, aren't you killer? > > THEY claim to be "pro-human". That makes them the GREATEST HYPOCRITES > of ALL, because THEY ARE FURIOUSLY DETERMINED TO DO NOTHING BUT > INSULT AND GIVE ANIMAL RIGHTS ACTIVISTS, who are HUMAN BEINGS, ARE > HARD TIME AND MAKE THEIR LIVES POOR AND MISERABLE. ======================= LOL You really don't even know what you're screaming, do you, killer? try again. snip of rest of puds ignorant spew... analogys are really hard for him, .... |
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Depression and veganism
usual suspect > wrote in message ... > nemo wrote: > > And meat eaters who risk about 30 different parasites, cancer, heart > > disease, diverticular disease, obesity etc. are sane??? > > Consumers of organic produce are also at risk of parasitic infection, e > coli infection, etc. Nature's a real bitch, huh. > Yeah. Nature even throws up trolls sometimes! |
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Depression and veganism
rick etter > wrote in message ... > > "piddock" > wrote in message > om... > > (tofubar) wrote in message > . com>... > > > I've noticed that my friends who have gone exclusively vegan, even if > > > they take vitamins, seem more moody and depressed. Has anyone else > > > noticed this? > > > > No. Vegans and vegetarians are happier than meat-eaters. > > Whenever vegans do feel sad, it is because of anti-vegetarians > > who favor greater government control to force vegans and animals > > to cater to their selfish lifestyle. > ======================== > ROTFLMAO What a hoot! this is the laugh of the day, killer. > The only people here advocating making others do what they do are the > vegans, you ignorant loon! > No where has any of us told you what you have to eat. vegans do that all > the time, and would make > it the governments fuction to ensure that diet given the chance. You truly > are insane, hypocrite. > Very old propaganda technique: repeat a set of lies vehemently and often enough and people might believe it. Doesn't work on here though. Neither does replying with, "I'm not the one doing that. It's exactly what you're doing though." At the risk of causing you to commit suicide, I must break the devastatingly shocking news to you that on here there are many people who are mush more intelligent that yourself and know a damned sight more about nutrition, food toxicology and ethics than you do. How much are the Meat Trades Association paying you and do they realise that they are wasting their money?! |
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