On Wed, 11 Jan 2012 17:22:12 +0000, Nemo > wrote:

>On 10/01/2012 23:13, dh@. wrote:
>> On Sun, 08 Jan 2012 22:31:27 +0000, > wrote:
>>
>>> On 08/01/2012 20:32, Dutch wrote:
>>>> > wrote
>>>>
>>>>>> Why Veganism?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For compassion,
>>>>>
>>>>> There's my reason.
>>>>
>>>> Have you considered the collateral impact of those vegan alternatives? For
>>>> example leather is a by-product of the meat industry,
>>>
>>> No it is not a by-product. More animals are slaughtered than would
>>> otherwise be for their meat for leather.
>>
>> How do you figure that?
>
>Leather is a co-product of the meat industry, not a by-product of
>it. It's an economically dependent product of meat production made
>simultaneously with it to make each affordable to the consumer and
>thereby increases the demand for slaughtered animals. A by-product
>is something produced incidentally to another product that isn't
>economically dependent on it for its production.

Leather is. If no cattle were raised for beef or dairy some might be raised
for leather, but as it is no cattle need to be raised for leather so they
aren't.

>>>> the alternatives come
>>>> from the petro-chemical industry. The extraction of petroleum causes harm to
>>>> animals, the processes release chemicals that are harmful to animals. These
>>>> decisions are not quite as simple as you might think.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> You're not seriously suggesting that I should start eating meat and
>>> wearing animal skins because non-animal alternatives might kill wild
>>> animals anyway, are you?
>>
>> · Vegans contribute to the deaths of animals by their use of
>> wood and paper products, electricity, roads and all types of
>> buildings, their own diet, etc... just as everyone else does.
>> What they try to avoid are products which provide life
>> (and death) for farm animals, but even then they would have
>> to avoid the following items containing animal by-products
>> in order to be successful:
>>
>> tires, paper, upholstery, floor waxes, glass, water
>> filters, rubber, fertilizer, antifreeze, ceramics, insecticides,
>> insulation, linoleum, plastic, textiles, blood factors, collagen,
>> heparin, insulin, solvents, biodegradable detergents, herbicides,
>> gelatin capsules, adhesive tape, laminated wood products,
>> plywood, paneling, wallpaper and wallpaper paste, cellophane
>> wrap and tape, abrasives, steel ball bearings
>>
>> The meat industry provides life for the animals that it
>> slaughters, and the animals live and die as a result of it
>> as animals do in other habitats. They also depend on it for
>> their lives as animals do in other habitats. If people consume
>> animal products from animals they think are raised in decent
>> ways, they will be promoting life for more such animals in the
>> future. People who want to contribute to decent lives for
>> livestock with their lifestyle must do it by being conscientious
>> consumers of animal products, because they can not do it by
>> being vegan.
>> From the life and death of a thousand pound grass raised
>> steer and whatever he happens to kill during his life, people
>> get over 500 pounds of human consumable meat...that's well
>> over 500 servings of meat. From a grass raised dairy cow people
>> get thousands of dairy servings. Due to the influence of farm
>> machinery, and *icides, and in the case of rice the flooding and
>> draining of fields, one serving of soy or rice based product is
>> likely to involve more animal deaths than hundreds of servings
>> derived from grass raised animals. Grass raised animal products
>> contribute to fewer wildlife deaths, better wildlife habitat, and
>> better lives for livestock than soy or rice products. ·
>
>Children raised in third world countries on other children from third
>world countries for their tender meat and young organ replacements
>would contribute to fewer human deaths in first world countries. I
>still wouldn't buy their meat or use their organs.

That's not similar enough to even try comparing, so why did you try do you
have any idea?