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Old 28-12-2004, 08:39 AM
Jay Santos
 
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Default "veganism" is religion

More at Wikipedia:

Veganism as a secular movement is a modern idea, as
a reaction to the exploitation of nature, including
imposing unnecessary suffering on non-human animals.
Although it can be seen as a minor and localised
reaction to the excesses of the developed world, the
principles behind it can be found in much older
ethical/religious doctrine of the East, such as
Hinduism, Buddhism or Jainism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegan

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Old 28-12-2004, 07:45 PM
 
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Default

Veganism is NOT religion, or even *a* religion.
Secularism, by definition is NOT concerned with religion.

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Old 28-12-2004, 08:30 PM
usual suspect
 
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Default

wrote:
Veganism is NOT religion, or even *a* religion.


Yes, it is.

Secularism, by definition is NOT concerned with religion.


Veganism isn't secularism. It's a codified belief system:
In late 1944, The Vegan Society was established, advocating a
totally plant-based diet excluding flesh, fish, fowl, eggs,
honey, and animals' milk, butter, and cheese, and also
encouraging the manufacture and use of alternatives to animal
commodities, including clothing and shoes. The group argued that
the elimination of exploitation of any kind was necessary in
order to bring about a more reasonable and humane society. FROM
ITS INCEPTION, VEGANISM WAS DEFINED AS A "PHILOSOPHY" AND "WAY
OF LIVING." IT WAS NEVER INTENDED TO BE MERELY A DIET AND, STILL
TODAY, DESCRIBES A LIFESTYLE AND BELIEF SYSTEM THAT REVOLVES
AROUND A REVERENCE FOR LIFE.
http://www.vegsource.com/jo/veganliving.htm

Mr Santos earlier today shared the following with you vegan nitwits:
Veganism as a secular movement is a MODERN IDEA, as
a reaction to the exploitation of nature, including
imposing unnecessary suffering on non-human animals.
Although it can be seen as a minor and localised
reaction to the excesses of the developed world, the
principles behind it can be found in much older
ethical/religious doctrine of the East, such as
Hinduism, Buddhism or Jainism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegan

It is entirely religious, and its adherents are brainless true believers.
  #5 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 28-12-2004, 08:30 PM
usual suspect
 
Posts: n/a
Default

wrote:
Veganism is NOT religion, or even *a* religion.


Yes, it is.

Secularism, by definition is NOT concerned with religion.


Veganism isn't secularism. It's a codified belief system:
In late 1944, The Vegan Society was established, advocating a
totally plant-based diet excluding flesh, fish, fowl, eggs,
honey, and animals' milk, butter, and cheese, and also
encouraging the manufacture and use of alternatives to animal
commodities, including clothing and shoes. The group argued that
the elimination of exploitation of any kind was necessary in
order to bring about a more reasonable and humane society. FROM
ITS INCEPTION, VEGANISM WAS DEFINED AS A "PHILOSOPHY" AND "WAY
OF LIVING." IT WAS NEVER INTENDED TO BE MERELY A DIET AND, STILL
TODAY, DESCRIBES A LIFESTYLE AND BELIEF SYSTEM THAT REVOLVES
AROUND A REVERENCE FOR LIFE.
http://www.vegsource.com/jo/veganliving.htm

Mr Santos earlier today shared the following with you vegan nitwits:
Veganism as a secular movement is a MODERN IDEA, as
a reaction to the exploitation of nature, including
imposing unnecessary suffering on non-human animals.
Although it can be seen as a minor and localised
reaction to the excesses of the developed world, the
principles behind it can be found in much older
ethical/religious doctrine of the East, such as
Hinduism, Buddhism or Jainism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegan

It is entirely religious, and its adherents are brainless true believers.


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Old 28-12-2004, 11:11 PM
guillaume
 
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Default

Veganism is NOT religion, or even *a* religion. - There is no unseen
controlling power or faith in the unproved, as is typical with a
religion. A stated conviction to a particular behaviour is not
religion. How many people worship MacDonald's?

I suggest you read the whole Wikipedia article, if you haven't, and
then comment on the whole.

Jay Santos replays part of the article that states that veganism is a
"secular movement" then you say it's not, and then you replay the same
"Veganism as a secular movement". Are you confused?

I'm not a vegan nitwit, vegan or a nitwit. - Just trying to gain
clarity in peoples thoughts. I see irresponsible extracts, apparent
confusion and now insults.

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Old 28-12-2004, 11:11 PM
guillaume
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Veganism is NOT religion, or even *a* religion. - There is no unseen
controlling power or faith in the unproved, as is typical with a
religion. A stated conviction to a particular behaviour is not
religion. How many people worship MacDonald's?

I suggest you read the whole Wikipedia article, if you haven't, and
then comment on the whole.

Jay Santos replays part of the article that states that veganism is a
"secular movement" then you say it's not, and then you replay the same
"Veganism as a secular movement". Are you confused?

I'm not a vegan nitwit, vegan or a nitwit. - Just trying to gain
clarity in peoples thoughts. I see irresponsible extracts, apparent
confusion and now insults.

  #8 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 28-12-2004, 11:16 PM
Jay Santos
 
Posts: n/a
Default

guillaume wrote:

Veganism is NOT religion, or even *a* religion.


You're just repeating your previous unsubstantiated and
false claim.
  #9 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 28-12-2004, 11:24 PM
guillaume
 
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Default

So, it's not a religion, but you like to call it one. - That's OK with
me.

If veganism is not secular why did you select a passage that stated in
the first line "Veganism as a secular movement .."?

  #10 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 28-12-2004, 11:39 PM
guillaume
 
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Default

No. I'm stating facts. - You made the claim that veganism was a
religion, you substantiate it.

You've only quoted a passage that starts "Veganism as a secular
movement.." under a subject line of "veganism" is religion". That, to
me says, you don't know what you're talking about, or are at best, just
careless, and what makes it worse, won't admit it.

In future, have the decency to address the whole post; otherwise, I and
others might think you're incapable of addressing all the points raised.



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Old 29-12-2004, 12:28 AM
usual suspect
 
Posts: n/a
Default

guillaume wrote:
Veganism is NOT religion, or even *a* religion. -


Yes, it is.

There is no unseen
controlling power or faith in the unproved,


There *is* a faith in the unproved assertion that one is benefitting
animals merely by not eating them.

as is typical with a religion.


Not all religions believe in "unseen controlling powers." Buddhism
doesn't, yet it's definitely a religion.

A stated conviction to a particular behaviour is not
religion.


It is when adherents make absolute moral claims on an axiomatic basis.

How many people worship MacDonald's?

I suggest you read the whole Wikipedia article, if you haven't, and
then comment on the whole.

Jay Santos replays part of the article that states that veganism is a
"secular movement"


Actually, the statement from that article said "Veganism as a secular
movement is a modern idea." That is to say that it wasn't ALWAYS
secular. When it was started in 1944, it was a peculiar conglomeration
of extremist animal welfare positions interspersed with ideas from
certain Eastern religions. Nothing about it has really changed, and it's
still exceedingly doctrinaire.

Among belief systems (religions), it is among the most dogmatic in the
world.

then you say it's not, and then you replay the same
"Veganism as a secular movement". Are you confused?


No, *you* are. You're leaving out the rest of the operative phrase:
"Veganism as a secular movement IS A MODERN IDEA."

I'm not a vegan nitwit, vegan or a nitwit.


I beg to differ.

- Just trying to gain
clarity in peoples thoughts. I see irresponsible extracts, apparent
confusion and now insults.


The most irresponsible "extract" thus far is your editing of what was
posted.
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Old 29-12-2004, 12:30 AM
usual suspect
 
Posts: n/a
Default

guillaume wrote:
So, it's not a religion,


Yes, it is. It is a belief system. It's as axiomatic as any other
religion, and it's rigidly dogmatic.

but you like to call it one. - That's OK with
me.

If veganism is not secular why did you select a passage that stated in
the first line "Veganism as a secular movement .."?


Don't turn to an ellipse when the rest of the sentence is operative: *IS
A MODERN IDEA*. It was not originally secular, and even though it's
undergone a secularization, it remains at its core fundamentally religious.
  #13 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 29-12-2004, 12:32 AM
usual suspect
 
Posts: n/a
Default

guillaume wrote:
No. I'm stating facts. - You made the claim that veganism was a
religion, you substantiate it.

You've only quoted a passage that starts "Veganism as a secular
movement.." under a subject line of "veganism" is religion".


AS is not IS. You twit.

That, to
me says, you don't know what you're talking about, or are at best, just
careless, and what makes it worse, won't admit it.


Finish the sentence: Veganism as a secular movement IS A MODERN IDEA.

In future, have the decency to address the whole post; otherwise, I and
others might think you're incapable of addressing all the points raised.


Why don't you have the decency to leave in some text so we can tell whom
and what you're replying?
  #14 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 29-12-2004, 12:33 AM
Jay Santos
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Espece de con "guillaume" wrote:

No. I'm stating facts. - You made the claim that veganism was a
religion, you substantiate it.


No, you're merely repeating your false and unsubstantiated claim.

The substantiation for the observation that "veganism" is a religion
has been made in the "vegan"-related newsgroups often and persuasively.
Look for it yourself, billy - I'm not here pour faire tes devoirs.

  #15 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 29-12-2004, 12:40 AM
Scented Nectar
 
Posts: n/a
Default

If veganism is not secular why did you select a passage that stated
in
the first line "Veganism as a secular movement .."?


Don't turn to an ellipse when the rest of the sentence is operative:

*IS
A MODERN IDEA*. It was not originally secular, and even though it's
undergone a secularization, it remains at its core fundamentally

religious.

If it's a modern idea, why don't you just go with
the flow and live in current times? Regardless
of how the word started, and what you think it
implies, there is this very real second definition.

Just accept that to those of us who don't think
it's a religion, it isn't one.

--
SN
http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/
A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites.
Has a fun 'Jump to a Random Link' button.




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