Sourdough (rec.food.sourdough) Discussing the hobby or craft of baking with sourdough. We are not just a recipe group, Our charter is to discuss the care, feeding, and breeding of yeasts and lactobacilli that make up sourdough cultures.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #16 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 07-02-2007, 11:48 PM posted to rec.food.sourdough
external usenet poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 13
Default inoculation

Thanks a lot.
Most of the recipes I've seen have starter amounts 20% to 40% of the
total dough amount, which is what I've been going by. It seems okay to
calculate the amount of starter needed for the fermentation times
desired. Perhaps I'm off the mark, though. Long, slow fermentations
are good. The temperatures at which it takes place, however, might
affect the types of acids produced (bacteria favored).

With starter, what counts is the ratio of starter flour to total flour.


Would you mind explaining why the ratio of starter flour to total
flour counts? Perhaps that will help me to understand why.

Regardless. Thanks.

-Erich


  #17 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 08-02-2007, 01:03 PM posted to rec.food.sourdough
external usenet poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 380
Default inoculation

On 7 Feb, 23:48, "
wrote:
Thanks a lot.
Most of the recipes I've seen have starter amounts 20% to 40% of the
total dough amount, which is what I've been going by. It seems okay to
calculate the amount of starter needed for the fermentation times
desired. Perhaps I'm off the mark, though. Long, slow fermentations
are good. The temperatures at which it takes place, however, might
affect the types of acids produced (bacteria favored).

With starter, what counts is the ratio of starter flour to total flour.


Would you mind explaining why the ratio of starter flour to total
flour counts? Perhaps that will help me to understand why.

Regardless. Thanks.

-Erich


Hi Erich,

the starter flour is a guide to the number of organisms, assuming the
concentration of organisms is at the optimum, that you will be
introducing to the new flour/water mix.

We know from published data the rate of growth of the organisms for a
given temperature and it seems logical to assume that the rate of
fermentation is directly proportional. At least the bakes I've done so
far agrees with this assumption.

Jim

  #18 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 08-02-2007, 01:50 PM posted to rec.food.sourdough
external usenet poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1
Default inoculation

wrote:
Thanks a lot.
Most of the recipes I've seen have starter amounts 20% to 40% of the
total dough amount, which is what I've been going by. It seems okay to
calculate the amount of starter needed for the fermentation times
desired. Perhaps I'm off the mark, though. Long, slow fermentations
are good. The temperatures at which it takes place, however, might
affect the types of acids produced (bacteria favored).

With starter, what counts is the ratio of starter flour to total flour.


Would you mind explaining why the ratio of starter flour to total
flour counts? Perhaps that will help me to understand why.


Because water does not count very much in essence.

What counts are numbers of organisms which feed on solids (or
dissolved/converted solids) and taste/acid components produced while
growing the starter.

If you have a certain starter and add the same weight on water, lets
say, 1 kg starter (100 % hydration) and 1 kg water, you still have
essentially the same main important components (500 g) but if you add
this to a the final dough thinking you have 2 kg of starter, you are off
thinking in 2 kgs instead of 500 g starter flour.

It's probably easier practically to think total starter weight (or even
volume) instead of starter flour, but it's inaccurate and harder to compare.

This may play less a role with white flour breads for a home baker but
with rye, where acidity plays a role and in a production environment, I
think it is more of importance.

With rye you need a certain acid content in order to sufficiently
suppress amylase activity. You don't get it by having more water in the
starter but by fermenting the flour, so the flour amount counts.

Does that make sense?

Samartha


  #19 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 08-02-2007, 09:30 PM posted to rec.food.sourdough
external usenet poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 13
Default inoculation


Does that make sense?


Yes. So, when discussing inoculation quantity, that would refer to
the amount of flour in the starter introduced to the final dough
rather than the total weight of the starter.

Thanks Jim and Samartha.

-Erich

  #20 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 09-02-2007, 10:41 AM posted to rec.food.sourdough
external usenet poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 380
Default inoculation

On 8 Feb, 21:30, "
wrote:
Does that make sense?


Yes. So, when discussing inoculation quantity, that would refer to
the amount of flour in the starter introduced to the final dough
rather than the total weight of the starter.

Thanks Jim and Samartha.

-Erich


Hi Erich,

You're welcome, but take care, not everyone talks about it in terms of
the flour, but you can usually work it out. It's one of those crazy
conventions. : -)

Jim



  #21 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 09-02-2007, 02:42 PM posted to rec.food.sourdough
external usenet poster
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 556
Default inoculation

I'll claim some credit for popularizing the term "inoculation".
if not introducing it, at r.f.s.

But we have clearly gone over the top here. Inoculation
means no more than introducing the microorganisms to
the dough (or whatever else is to be infected with them).

Where the dough is built by stages from the starter culture,
it is the first stage that is inoculated. Following stages are
feedings or refreshments. (A mother sponge is grown from
inoculum once in its lifetime, and rebuilt thereafter by feedings.)

Who am I to diddle the meanings of words? Well, if not
me, who?

Everything I am trying to say here, and more, is shown in
pictures at http://home.att.net/~carlsfriends/dickpics/cmpd%5Fwthcurve.GIF
Inoculation there occurs once, at the lower left.

Words are used very irresponsibly by bakers. Like "retardation",
"proof or proofing", "hydration", to mention a few. Probably it
is to late for these, but one may hope that "inoculation" can still be
saved.

--
Dicky
  #22 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 09-02-2007, 02:58 PM posted to rec.food.sourdough
external usenet poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 133
Default inoculation

Dick Adams wrote:
I'll claim some credit for popularizing the term "inoculation".
if not introducing it, at r.f.s.

But we have clearly gone over the top here. Inoculation
means no more than introducing the microorganisms to
the dough (or whatever else is to be infected with them).

Where the dough is built by stages from the starter culture,
it is the first stage that is inoculated. Following stages are
feedings or refreshments. (A mother sponge is grown from
inoculum once in its lifetime, and rebuilt thereafter by feedings.)

Who am I to diddle the meanings of words? Well, if not
me, who?

Everything I am trying to say here, and more, is shown in
pictures at http://home.att.net/~carlsfriends/dickpics/cmpd%5Fwthcurve.GIF
Inoculation there occurs once, at the lower left.


Ah - there on the left bottom:

AT&T Worldnet Accelerator, browse up to 5 x faster.

You may want to change that" browse" to "rise"

but what that's got to do with the phoneline is beyond my sourdough
understanding.



Page URL Not Found!!

The requested page does not exist on this server. The URL you typed or
followed is either outdated or inaccurate.

Type your search term above instead or try to click here
to let us help you find web pages you are looking for!

  #23 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 09-02-2007, 04:11 PM posted to rec.food.sourdough
external usenet poster
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 556
Default inoculation


"Samartha Deva" wrote in message news:mailman.88.1171033114.1438.rec.food.sourdough @www.mountainbitwarrior..com...
Dick Adams wrote:
http://home.att.net/~carlsfriends/dickpics/cmpd%5Fwthcurve.GIF


Page URL Not Found!!


Oh, fix it, will ya! And quit yer bitchin'!

Or see

--
Dicky
  #24 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 09-02-2007, 05:35 PM posted to rec.food.sourdough
external usenet poster
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 86
Default inoculation

Probably it is to late for these, but one may hope that "inoculation" can
still be saved.

--
Dicky


Mr Adams, should that not be "too" instead of "to" in your above sentence?

Joe Umstead
  #25 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 09-02-2007, 05:57 PM posted to rec.food.sourdough
external usenet poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 380
Default inoculation

On 9 Feb, 14:42, "Dick Adams" wrote:
I'll claim some credit for popularizing the term "inoculation".
if not introducing it, at r.f.s.

But we have clearly gone over the top here. *Inoculation
means no more than introducing the microorganisms to
the dough (or whatever else is to be infected with them).


'inoculate |iˈnäkyəˌlāt| verb [ trans. ] ... introduce (cells or
organisms) into a culture medium.'

Words are used very irresponsibly by bakers. *Like "retardation",
"proof or proofing", "hydration", to mention a few. *Probably it
is too late for these, but one may hope that "inoculation" can still be
saved.

--
Dicky


Words or 'Memes' the lexicographers genes once introduced into the
environment have a habit of taking on a life of their own.

I think this is a very good word for describing the act of adding
starter to a dough of any kind or stage. Any other words you want to
give to the English Language Dicky?

Jim



  #26 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 09-02-2007, 08:08 PM posted to rec.food.sourdough
external usenet poster
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 556
Default inoculation


"TG" wrote in message oups.com...

I think this is a very good word for describing the act of adding
starter to a dough of any kind or stage.


Or adding anything to anything, if you want to pursue that to an illogical
conclusion. But don't you think that one should endeavor to act
responsibly in these matters?

Any other words you want to give to the English Language Dicky?


OK, here's one: Awpyoorz!

Time to go inoculate some of my bourbon with some of my red
vermouth.

--
Dicky

  #27 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 10-02-2007, 03:20 PM posted to rec.food.sourdough
external usenet poster
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 556
Default inoculation


"TG" wrote in message oups.com...

Any other words you want to give to the English Language Dicky?


Well, here is one, but not due to me:

YUM-O!

That's for when yummy! does not quite do it.

Please see www.buzzwhack.com

Here is one from me:

YUM-aargh!

--
Dicky
  #28 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 10-02-2007, 06:54 PM posted to rec.food.sourdough
external usenet poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 380
Default inoculation

On 10 Feb, 15:20, "Dick Adams" wrote:
"TG" wrote in ooglegroups.com...
Any other words you want to give to the English Language Dicky?

...
Here is one from me:

YUM-aargh!

--
Dicky


I prefer Awpyoorz. Dicky. More punchy.

Jim


  #29 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 10-02-2007, 10:27 PM posted to rec.food.sourdough
external usenet poster
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 42
Default inoculation

On 10 Feb 2007 10:54:01 -0800, "TG" wrote:

I prefer Awpyoorz. Dicky. More punchy.


It's certainly classic Dick Adams. Although at first sight, I took it
to be the name of some obscure Indian city ...


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Inoculation, chemicals and water quantity calculations for a secondwine... jim Winemaking 7 11-02-2008 10:52 PM
inoculation Dick Adams Sourdough 1 09-02-2007 03:26 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:04 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2022, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2022 FoodBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about Food and drink"

 

Copyright © 2017