Diabetic (alt.food.diabetic) This group is for the discussion of controlled-portion eating plans for the dietary management of diabetes.

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Old 06-10-2013, 09:40 PM posted to alt.food.diabetic
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Default What cereal to eat for Breakfast?

On 10/06/2013 08:15 AM, Karen wrote:
There is a big difference between what the USDA has put on labels and
what doctors and registered dieticians actually recommend. The USDA
recommendations on the packages are not suggested for diabetic
patients. Also, that number is based on a 2000 calorie a day diet.
Most of the diabetics I know were told to eat 30-45 g carbs per meal.
My dad who is a large man was told 45-60. At most that is 180 per day
(I know, still a lot) but the point being still less than half the
375 you are saying diabetics are told to eat.


When did I say that? See the next quote below. 45-60 makes
a lot of sense. Why in the world would you think I was
recommending 375? That is insane for anyone. That was
my criticism.

Neither do I. I wasn't talking about Diabetics. I was
talking about the general population.


And I was talking about the USDA's recommendation, which
I think are wrong by the way.

I'm not trying to be argumentive, but you are spreading
misinformation. I fully expect you will put me in your killfile
rather than discuss the issue.



Hi Karen,

I think we are talking at cross purposes here. I think
we are getting T2 and T0 crossed. And USDA vs rational
crossed as well.

And I don't think T0's should eat that 375 a day either.
I think 100 is probably a better number. And I
think 60, as I was told, is the better number for T2's.

Discuss away. No problem as long as everyone stays friends.

-T

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Old 06-10-2013, 09:57 PM posted to alt.food.diabetic
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Default What cereal to eat for Breakfast?


"Trawley Trash" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 5 Oct 2013 22:58:14 -0700
"Julie Bove" wrote:


"Cheri" wrote in message
...
"Todd" wrote in message
...
On 10/05/2013 02:47 PM, Cheri wrote:
"Todd" wrote in message
...
On 10/05/2013 07:03 AM, David Sharad wrote:

Breakfast is considered as a first meal of the day. Don't skip
breakfast
it is very important to improve health.There are many different
kinds of
cereal including cheerios, cocoa puffs, honey bunches of oats,
fiber one, lucky charms, cookie crisp, fruity pebbles and fruit
loops. These are best cereals to eat for breakfast.
'Tacoma personal trainer' (http://www.isaacbefitlife.com/)


David!

This is a * Diabetic group *. If you eat this garbage for
any meal you will be a Diabetic too.


That is absolutely untrue. Why would you say something like that?

Cheri

Hi Cheri,

That is how I caught Diabetes. I loved my pasta (like eating
a bag of sugar). I burned myself out -- two allopaths confirmed
that suspicion. Humans never, and I mean never, ate grains
or so many carbs before they discovered beer.

You don't "catch" diabetes.


I guess he should go tell all those Italians that they have
diabetes. Oh and the Chinese too, since that is where pasta
originated. Jinxy! I'll bet they are all passing it back and forth
and don't even know it!

Actually, my husband is Italian as of course are all of his
relatives. And out of all of them, AFAIK, there was only one
diabetic. I believe he was diagnosed with type 2 once elderly. And
I never saw him eat any pasta. We were frequently at their house at
meal time. He was a bartender and walked to work. And because of
his shift, they always ate their main meal around 2-3:00 p.m. And it
was always the same thing, time after time. Eggs and peppers.
Italianelle peppers, fried with some garlic and scrambled eggs.
Frequently eaten with Italian bread although if he did eat the bread,
I only ever saw him eat one piece. His BIL had a garden and during
the summer they would often have additional vegetables along with
this but the eggs and peppers were the main thing that they ate.
They also sometimes had fruit but again if he ate any of that, it was
just a small piece. Like a sliver of melon. Always drank diet Coke.

Sounds to me like he was type II his whole life. He kept it under
control with diet and exercise. Late in life his habits changed,
and he was diagnosed.


People don't usually have type 2 for their whole lives.

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Old 06-10-2013, 09:58 PM posted to alt.food.diabetic
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Default What cereal to eat for Breakfast?


"Todd" wrote in message
...
On 10/06/2013 04:10 AM, Trawley Trash wrote:
On Sat, 05 Oct 2013 22:14:12 -0700
Todd wrote:

Here is an article to consider on why grains are
unhealthy from Mr. Paleo himself, Mark Sisson who
has been a diabetic since he was a kid:

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/why-g...are-unhealthy/

By the way, for those that argue about what is and what isn't
Paloe, I consider whatever we ate before beer to be Paleo.


Yes, but what did we eat before beer? Was it fruit or fish?


Hi Trawley,

There was a time before beer? TELL ME IT WASN"T SO! (This
joke from a guy who doesn't drink.)

Next you will tell me there was a time before
g - a - r - l - i - c! Nooooooooooo :-)

We ate anything we could get our hands on. And the fruit
was not deliberately hybridized for high carb. Very unnatural
in nature.

-T


Fruit is hybridized for better transport and storage. Not carbs.

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Old 06-10-2013, 10:00 PM posted to alt.food.diabetic
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Default What cereal to eat for Breakfast?


"Karen" wrote in message
news
I'm not trying to be argumentive, but you are spreading
misinformation. I fully expect you will put me in your killfile
rather than discuss the issue.


That seems to be his modus operandi. Tell him that he is wrong and you are
picking a fight. I got sick of what he was saying early on and called him
on it. The only reason I didn't KF him is that spreading misinformation
like this could be a bad thing if some newbie sees it and believes it.

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Old 06-10-2013, 10:58 PM posted to alt.food.diabetic
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Default What cereal to eat for Breakfast?

Todd wrote:
: On 10/05/2013 02:47 PM, Cheri wrote:
: "Todd" wrote in message
: ...
: On 10/05/2013 07:03 AM, David Sharad wrote:
:
: Breakfast is considered as a first meal of the day. Don't skip breakfast
: it is very important to improve health.There are many different kinds of
: cereal including cheerios, cocoa puffs, honey bunches of oats, fiber
: one, lucky charms, cookie crisp, fruity pebbles and fruit loops. These
: are best cereals to eat for breakfast.
: 'Tacoma personal trainer' (http://www.isaacbefitlife.com/)
:
:
: David!
:
: This is a * Diabetic group *. If you eat this garbage for
: any meal you will be a Diabetic too.
:
:
: That is absolutely untrue. Why would you say something like that?
:
: Cheri

: Hi Cheri,

: That is how I caught Diabetes. I loved my pasta (like eating
: a bag of sugar). I burned myself out -- two allopaths confirmed
: that suspicion. Humans never, and I mean never, ate grains
: or so many carbs before they discovered beer.

: And I would say something like that because I "do" think it is
: true and thought it would help someone else.

: If you are still eating grains, you need to consider weening
: yourself off them. Based on the recipes and tips you have given
: me, you are a really good cook. Why would you want to consume
: that poison?

: I am finding (anecdotally) that those T2's with all the
: problems are the ones that constantly try to find ways around
: the low carb diet. "Oh I don't follow the restrictions.
: I just use insulin." "Apples are free. I eat as many as
: I want." (And, my favorite, "I am on the kidney transplant
: list".)

: By the way, I suspect, the government 375 grams of carbs
: a day recommendation, should really be 100 for T0's
: and definitely 60 for T2's. And I really want all my
: friends (okay, eFriends) on this group to stick around as
: long as I do. Or, you all run the risk of me digging you
: up and asking "How much garlic on those ...?"

: 11 days drug free!

: -T

I have hd tye 2 for some 30 yers and et moderate carb, but do include some
grains in my diet. I use high fiber low net carb pitas adn bread in
moderation and have, to date no diabetic comlications. Iwatch all carbs
in my limitations, not especiallu grains.

I hesitate to use terms liek poison for any particular nurtientas , many f
us find we do not have to go as low as you do to maintin decent numbers
adn health with diabetes.

this does not mean I, or any diabetic, can eat grains or carbs freely, but
they are not poison and people who say I can eat as many apples as i want
don't understand the nature of a diabees diet.

Unless you have specific food allergies etc, then no food actuall is
poison.

Wendy


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Old 06-10-2013, 11:28 PM posted to alt.food.diabetic
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Default What cereal to eat for Breakfast?



"Todd" wrote in message ...

On 10/06/2013 08:15 AM, Karen wrote:
There is a big difference between what the USDA has put on labels and
what doctors and registered dieticians actually recommend. The USDA
recommendations on the packages are not suggested for diabetic
patients. Also, that number is based on a 2000 calorie a day diet.
Most of the diabetics I know were told to eat 30-45 g carbs per meal.
My dad who is a large man was told 45-60. At most that is 180 per day
(I know, still a lot) but the point being still less than half the
375 you are saying diabetics are told to eat.


When did I say that? See the next quote below. 45-60 makes
a lot of sense. Why in the world would you think I was
recommending 375? That is insane for anyone. That was
my criticism.

Neither do I. I wasn't talking about Diabetics. I was
talking about the general population.


And I was talking about the USDA's recommendation, which
I think are wrong by the way.

I'm not trying to be argumentive, but you are spreading
misinformation. I fully expect you will put me in your killfile
rather than discuss the issue.



Hi Karen,

I think we are talking at cross purposes here. I think
we are getting T2 and T0 crossed. And USDA vs rational
crossed as well.

And I don't think T0's should eat that 375 a day either.
I think 100 is probably a better number. And I
think 60, as I was told, is the better number for T2's.

Discuss away. No problem as long as everyone stays friends.

-T

---------------------------
I never count per day but rather per meal or snack. Back in the day I
couldn't have handled say 40 gr carb at one time but could if it were
spaced out and only eating per meal what I was capable of eating without
a spike. Having said that I think there could be a daily limit at some
point. Studies have shown that normies will start to see raised
triglycerides for example, when they eat a certain amount of carb per
day. I have seen 75% or more being an average figure. I don't always put
much belief in percentages though. For example, if I am on a low carb
diet making my protein percentage high then that doesn't mean I am
having more protein than RDI. I would imagine that 75% would have more
meaning if the total calorie intake was high rather than on say a 1500
cal diet.

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Default What cereal to eat for Breakfast?


"Ozgirl" wrote in message
...


"Todd" wrote in message ...

On 10/06/2013 08:15 AM, Karen wrote:
There is a big difference between what the USDA has put on labels and
what doctors and registered dieticians actually recommend. The USDA
recommendations on the packages are not suggested for diabetic
patients. Also, that number is based on a 2000 calorie a day diet.
Most of the diabetics I know were told to eat 30-45 g carbs per meal.
My dad who is a large man was told 45-60. At most that is 180 per day
(I know, still a lot) but the point being still less than half the
375 you are saying diabetics are told to eat.


When did I say that? See the next quote below. 45-60 makes
a lot of sense. Why in the world would you think I was
recommending 375? That is insane for anyone. That was
my criticism.

Neither do I. I wasn't talking about Diabetics. I was
talking about the general population.


And I was talking about the USDA's recommendation, which
I think are wrong by the way.

I'm not trying to be argumentive, but you are spreading
misinformation. I fully expect you will put me in your killfile
rather than discuss the issue.



Hi Karen,

I think we are talking at cross purposes here. I think
we are getting T2 and T0 crossed. And USDA vs rational
crossed as well.

And I don't think T0's should eat that 375 a day either.
I think 100 is probably a better number. And I
think 60, as I was told, is the better number for T2's.

Discuss away. No problem as long as everyone stays friends.

-T

---------------------------
I never count per day but rather per meal or snack. Back in the day I
couldn't have handled say 40 gr carb at one time but could if it were
spaced out and only eating per meal what I was capable of eating without a
spike. Having said that I think there could be a daily limit at some
point. Studies have shown that normies will start to see raised
triglycerides for example, when they eat a certain amount of carb per day.
I have seen 75% or more being an average figure. I don't always put much
belief in percentages though. For example, if I am on a low carb diet
making my protein percentage high then that doesn't mean I am having more
protein than RDI. I would imagine that 75% would have more meaning if the
total calorie intake was high rather than on say a 1500 cal diet.


I have also seen studies that say that the raised triglycerides are from
excess carbs of a certain nature. Sugar for instance. I think it would be
a tad difficult for a person to eat an excessive amount of a true whole
grain bread or brown rice because such things are filling. Sure, perhaps if
they were poor and couldn't get any more food.

I have seen people eat HUGE amounts of white bread. I worked with a woman
(she was thin) who said she had a problem. Each night she stopped at the
little bread bakery at the end of our building and bought a loaf of white
bread. She then took it home and ate the whole loaf with butter. That
bread could be had for cheap. Very cheap. Especially at the end of the day
like that. She said the only other foods that she kept in the house were
carrots and apples which she ate raw when she could afford them. She said
her goal was to spend no more than $20 per week on groceries. She did eat
some food at work but I never took lunch with her so not sure what that food
was. I only know that she ate because we had been discussing it.

She was clearly the carb addict type. The rest of us took it all in
dumbfounded when she said that she ate the whole loaf of bread every night.
I had been to that bakery many times and I was very happy that they sold
single rolls and tiny loaves of bread in addition to their other stuff.
They also had raw pizza dough. But I don't recall them selling sweet baked
things which could have led to their demise. They weren't there for very
long. I'm not a big bread eater. I like it but it's not a favorite food.
But it was nice for me to be able to buy a roll to eat with my soup or
salad, or to put cheese on for a little sandwich once in a while. That
wasn't what she was buying though. She was buying a big, unsliced loaf.

AFAIK this woman had no physical health issues but she did seem to have
mental ones which is partly why we were discussing her. I won't even get
into all of that here but the last thing I know of, she didn't show up for
work for many days. Then she did some in as though nothing had happened
(she had been fired by then) and told us all that she was Sade, the singer.
The black singer! This woman was white (I think) but she did have a skin
tone that was slightly on the olive side. She also had massively long,
dishwater blonde hair that she always kept pulled back into a tight bun. I
did see her with her hair down once and it was gorgeous! Anyway... On this
day she came into the store with very dark, badly applied pancake makeup on,
sunglasses and dyed black hair, telling us that she was really Sade. I
can't tell you what happened beyond there because she was taken away by the
police. And I was working and couldn't really stick around to witness the
rest of it.

I guess I am rambling off here. I do believe that her diet could have
brought about the mental issues. Studies have linked certain foods (wheat
and/or gluten in particular) to various mental problems. But they are only
a problem for certain people who may perhaps be predisposed. I also know
that some people who are suffering from a mental illness will self medicate.
They often use tobacco or liquor to make themselves feel better. Although I
am not mental ill, I can attest that I felt a heck of a lot better in many
ways when I smoked. There is something very calming about smoking. Feeling
stressed? Take 5 minutes out and have a nice smoke. Just you and the
cigarette and nothing else matters. So it is also possible that some people
self medicate with food. We have seen this happen with people who have an
eating disorder. But often for them, any food will do. I do think it is
possible that some might use a specific food like bread to self medicate in
a way.

I also think that this sort of stuff only applies to some people. For
instance, my mom, daughter and I all have food intolerances. For daughter
and I, the food that sickens us is not food we will willingly eat. Sure we
have accidentally consumed it despite trying not to. We either didn't read
a food label right or a well meaning person prepared it for us, telling us
that it was fine when it was not. Such as them thinking that all margarine
is dairy free. Or that flour doesn't contain wheat.

But not all people are like this. My mom is just the opposite. Not only
does she eat that which makes her sick but often eats large amounts of it.
She says that she can't help it as she craves the stuff. And we just don't
get that. Yeah, I guess I did crave cigarettes and I did for a long time
after I quit. Now I find them rather repulsive but I would never be one of
those hard core ex smoker who belittles other smokers. Live and let live.
And yes I know that smoking is bad for you. I knew it when I smoked. Just
sort of didn't care then. I just don't get the food thing. Why eat
something when you know you will get sick from it?

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Old 07-10-2013, 02:17 AM posted to alt.food.diabetic
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Default What cereal to eat for Breakfast?

On Sun, 6 Oct 2013 13:57:03 -0700
"Julie Bove" wrote:


"Trawley Trash" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 5 Oct 2013 22:58:14 -0700
"Julie Bove" wrote:


"Cheri" wrote in message
...
"Todd" wrote in message
...
On 10/05/2013 02:47 PM, Cheri wrote:
"Todd" wrote in message
...
On 10/05/2013 07:03 AM, David Sharad wrote:

Breakfast is considered as a first meal of the day. Don't
skip breakfast
it is very important to improve health.There are many
different kinds of
cereal including cheerios, cocoa puffs, honey bunches of
oats, fiber one, lucky charms, cookie crisp, fruity pebbles
and fruit loops. These are best cereals to eat for breakfast.
'Tacoma personal trainer' (http://www.isaacbefitlife.com/)


David!

This is a * Diabetic group *. If you eat this garbage for
any meal you will be a Diabetic too.


That is absolutely untrue. Why would you say something like
that?

Cheri

Hi Cheri,

That is how I caught Diabetes. I loved my pasta (like eating
a bag of sugar). I burned myself out -- two allopaths confirmed
that suspicion. Humans never, and I mean never, ate grains
or so many carbs before they discovered beer.

You don't "catch" diabetes.

I guess he should go tell all those Italians that they have
diabetes. Oh and the Chinese too, since that is where pasta
originated. Jinxy! I'll bet they are all passing it back and
forth and don't even know it!

Actually, my husband is Italian as of course are all of his
relatives. And out of all of them, AFAIK, there was only one
diabetic. I believe he was diagnosed with type 2 once elderly.
And I never saw him eat any pasta. We were frequently at their
house at meal time. He was a bartender and walked to work. And
because of his shift, they always ate their main meal around
2-3:00 p.m. And it was always the same thing, time after time.
Eggs and peppers. Italianelle peppers, fried with some garlic and
scrambled eggs. Frequently eaten with Italian bread although if he
did eat the bread, I only ever saw him eat one piece. His BIL had
a garden and during the summer they would often have additional
vegetables along with this but the eggs and peppers were the main
thing that they ate. They also sometimes had fruit but again if he
ate any of that, it was just a small piece. Like a sliver of
melon. Always drank diet Coke.

Sounds to me like he was type II his whole life. He kept it under
control with diet and exercise. Late in life his habits changed,
and he was diagnosed.


People don't usually have type 2 for their whole lives.


Well, he probably was not diabetic as a child, but as an adult he
zeroed in on a diet that did not make him feel bad. Which happens
to be a good diet for type II.


--
I'm Trawley Trash, and you haven't heard the last of me yet.

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Old 07-10-2013, 02:20 AM posted to alt.food.diabetic
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On Sun, 6 Oct 2013 12:26:37 -0700
"Cheri" wrote:

What I mean to Todd is my dh's immediate family are pretty long
lived, into late 80's & 90's . Not one of them ever had diabetes.
They all ate oatmeal, bread, pasta etc., but they didn't/don't overdo
it. Phil eats a fair amount of carbs but stays fairly slim.


How are they on sugar?

--
I'm Trawley Trash, and you haven't heard the last of me yet.

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Old 07-10-2013, 02:25 AM posted to alt.food.diabetic
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On Sun, 6 Oct 2013 13:58:00 -0700
"Julie Bove" wrote:


"Todd" wrote in message
...
On 10/06/2013 04:10 AM, Trawley Trash wrote:
On Sat, 05 Oct 2013 22:14:12 -0700
Todd wrote:

Here is an article to consider on why grains are
unhealthy from Mr. Paleo himself, Mark Sisson who
has been a diabetic since he was a kid:

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/why-g...are-unhealthy/

By the way, for those that argue about what is and what isn't
Paloe, I consider whatever we ate before beer to be Paleo.

Yes, but what did we eat before beer? Was it fruit or fish?


Hi Trawley,

There was a time before beer? TELL ME IT WASN"T SO! (This
joke from a guy who doesn't drink.)

Next you will tell me there was a time before
g - a - r - l - i - c! Nooooooooooo :-)

We ate anything we could get our hands on. And the fruit
was not deliberately hybridized for high carb. Very unnatural
in nature.

-T


Fruit is hybridized for better transport and storage. Not carbs.


And sweetness.


--
I'm Trawley Trash, and you haven't heard the last of me yet.



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Old 07-10-2013, 02:37 AM posted to alt.food.diabetic
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On Sun, 06 Oct 2013 13:45:02 -0700
Todd wrote:

On 10/06/2013 04:10 AM, Trawley Trash wrote:
On Sat, 05 Oct 2013 22:14:12 -0700
Todd wrote:

Here is an article to consider on why grains are
unhealthy from Mr. Paleo himself, Mark Sisson who
has been a diabetic since he was a kid:

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/why-g...are-unhealthy/

By the way, for those that argue about what is and what isn't
Paloe, I consider whatever we ate before beer to be Paleo.


Yes, but what did we eat before beer? Was it fruit or fish?


Hi Trawley,

There was a time before beer? TELL ME IT WASN"T SO! (This
joke from a guy who doesn't drink.)

Next you will tell me there was a time before
g - a - r - l - i - c! Nooooooooooo :-)

We ate anything we could get our hands on. And the fruit
was not deliberately hybridized for high carb. Very unnatural
in nature.


I was thinking of shore-based evolution where we left the jungles
behind early. Humans followed shorelines, and probably
ate coconut, roots, and fish: not fruit. For a long time there
was food in abundance. Chimpanzees dig for roots, but they don't
like water. When water adapted humans came, it would be only natural
to dig down where that bubble comes up through wet sand. Suddenly
humans had a new food source with no natural competitors. A diet
high in protein and fat. Huge shell mounds remain at some of the
busy migration routes. No doubt there are older ones buried
beneath the waves.




--
I'm Trawley Trash, and you haven't heard the last of me yet.

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Old 07-10-2013, 04:47 AM posted to alt.food.diabetic
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"Trawley Trash" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 6 Oct 2013 12:26:37 -0700
"Cheri" wrote:

What I mean to Todd is my dh's immediate family are pretty long
lived, into late 80's & 90's . Not one of them ever had diabetes.
They all ate oatmeal, bread, pasta etc., but they didn't/don't overdo
it. Phil eats a fair amount of carbs but stays fairly slim.


How are they on sugar?


Sugar is carbs, they all eat cakes, pies, candy etc.

Cheri

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"Todd" wrote in message
...

Hi Karen,

Susan said it very well. You eat meat and fat. Plants too.
But not the ones that are not artificially hybridized for
high carbs. As Susan said, not the starchy ones.


I don't know of any plants that are hybridized for high carbs. In fact some
potatoes are hybridized for lower carbs.

My regimen is 15 max per meal and 60 max per day. And I don't
get to eat extra carbs at the end of the day because I
was under on previous meals.


Why would anyone get to eat extra carbs at the end of the day?

Since I was inducted into the pin cushion club a year ago,
I have forced myself to learn how to cook. My precious
wife will only eat what I eat to make sure I am never
tempted to go off the regimen (it is only a "diet" in
the broad definition of the word). I have more variety,
better food, I am never hungry (unless it is on purpose),
I have more love in my life, and have met a lot
of new friends. T2 is only a curse if you let it be.


Apparently your wife does not cook?

We have three entirely different diets in this house. There is just no
reason why one person should have to eat another person's diet. And who
said that diabetes is a curse?

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"Todd" wrote in message
...
On 10/06/2013 12:26 PM, Cheri wrote:
What I mean to Todd is my dh's immediate family are pretty long lived,
into late 80's & 90's . Not one of them ever had diabetes. They all ate
oatmeal, bread, pasta etc., but they didn't/don't overdo it. Phil eats a
fair amount of carbs but stays fairly slim.


Hi Cheri,

We are all somewhat different genetically. I do believe
the number is one in six of us will eventually get T2.
(Just what I remember off the top of my head, don't quote me
as a source on this.)

Though I do wonder how safe it is for T0's, who carb out,
and have huge swings.

My point is that we should eat what we were designed to
eat, not things that are unnatural in nature. This high
carb stuff is only there because "we humans is cleaver".
Too cleaver for our own good.


Cleaver? What is that supposed to mean? A cleaver is sort of like a knife!
Has nothing to do with humans except that we use them to cut meat and
things.

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Old 07-10-2013, 12:14 PM posted to alt.food.diabetic
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Default What cereal to eat for Breakfast?

On Sun, 6 Oct 2013 21:58:55 +0000 (UTC)
"W. Baker" wrote:

Unless you have specific food allergies etc, then no food actuall is
poison.


Everyone has food allergies, whether they know it or not. Most of
them show up as long-term chronic conditions (like diabetes) that
doctors cannot treat. Instead they prescribe symptomatic relief
like pain killers or insulin that do nothing for the underlying
condition.

--
I'm Trawley Trash, and you haven't heard the last of me yet.



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