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Old 13-01-2004, 04:18 PM
usual suspect
 
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(degene)RAT(e) wrote:
How exactly do you propose deterring sexual predators from approaching
children?


The way we prevent harm of any kind coming to children - by exercising
caution and knowing about our children's activities. How do you
propose we prevent children from falling into our neighbor's swimming
pool? Should we require all owners of swimming pools in neighborhoods
with small children to fill or cover the pools because some two year
old *might* fall in and drown?


Municipalities (city or county) and indeed many states require fences
with locks around private and public swimming pools. So do insurance
companies. Try getting coverage for your home with a pool if you don't
have a fence around the pool.

No -- we say adults should exercise
proper care over their children.


No -- we have laws, building codes, and ordinances to deal with that
issue, degene-RAT.

Responsible people (including
children) should be able to enjoy pools in peace, without government
interference.


Responsibility includes following laws and ordinances.

Or shall we just wait and hope that somehow we find out after the
fact when harm has been done?


Which is what laws do. Laws do not prevent crimes, or save potential
victims. Laws punish *afterward* -- after the fact. They are
institutionalized revenge.


Laws do have deterrent effects. Laws are not revenge or recompense, that
is the function of penalties. BTW, do you support so-called "hate
crimes" laws and anti-discrimination measures?

Again, the punishment, if any, will vary
according to the capability of those involved as well, which is why
younger children, or the severely retarded, or the insane, etc., are
often seen as worthy of lesser or no sentence under law than a normal
adult who does the same action.


How do you measure psychological harm to a child?


By observing -- and asking -- the child.


That isn't a measure of psychological harm. Children who are harmed
through sexual and physical abuse often don't show the worst effects of
such harm until later in their teens or even adulthood.

(degene)Rat(e)


Your previous kind words about NAMBLA came as a minor surprise to me.
Now I see how deranged you really are.


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Old 13-01-2004, 05:21 PM
Rat & Swan
 
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usual suspect wrote:

(degene)RAT(e) wrote:


How cute...I'll bet you're another of those (half)witty types
who calls the actress "Ellen Degenerate".

snip

Responsibility includes following laws and ordinances.


Like the Nuremberg Laws, right? Good Germans everywhere applaud
your spinelessness. I'm sure Bonhoeffer would.

Following laws is only responsible when the law reflects justice -- and
then there is no need for laws. Christ gave us an example here, too.

snip
BTW, do you support so-called "hate crimes" laws


No

and anti-discrimination measures?


Yes, depending on what they are. Education is the best
anti-discrimination measure.

snip

That isn't a measure of psychological harm. Children who are harmed
through sexual and physical abuse often don't show the worst effects of
such harm until later in their teens or even adulthood.


Get over it. We all have childhood traumas, but the Christian and
adult thing is to deal with them, forgive those who injure us, and go on.

snip

Rat

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Old 17-01-2004, 03:06 AM
Capybyra
 
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On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 00:43:16 -0700, Rat & Swan wrote:



Jonathan Ball wrote:
Rat & Swan wrote:


snip

How would you know? Are you claiming to be intimately familiar with
all NAMBLA propaganda?


Yes. I read their journal regularly,


Yeah, *sure* you do. ****ing liar.


Why should you doubt it?

The NAMBLA Journal is an excellent miner's canary which provides
useful information about the government's efforts to stifle
free speech and dissent.

Rat


Firstly the prejudicial term " propaganda " hardly bespeaks tolerance of
divergent views . Secondly , the conceptual ground pounding goose step of -

That which is not forbidden will destroy us ....

Arguably by such doctrine a koranic obsessive canon denoting all possible
thoughtcrimes will be where " law " ends up .

I suspect that our present government by coup'detat would so use the Decalogue .

By bible standards of some faiths children were freely married at what had to
have been prepubertal ages for those races .

There has been more erosion of basic civil freedom under this president than any
other in the history of America . And the scarey speed of deluded laws
increases faster than our ability to comprehend what the real evils are .
Dissent is the sincerest form of being a patriot . You may not agree but must
never forget that freedom to dissent is the hub of all freedom itself .

Think of another mundane area that such a zeal to protect caues more harm than
good . Internet Censorship . Due to well-meaning or not needfully so laws
medical support group information is no longer accessible by internet at many
public libraries and in scchools .

Imagine the traumas caused by children entering puberty totally unprepared .
Would you have us restore the Comstock act and ban even the concept that
contraception is possible ?
INFORMATION is not to EVER be considered supressible with no damages .

Now for another example - The concept that discussion equates to acts .
The resultant arguement could ban categorically" Gangsta Rap "and MTV .

Sure - * NO * even marginally sane person will defend any form of rape .
None.

But a legit exploration of social concepts that are not " comfortable " ? ?
RAPE is a power crime seldom about mere sex . So also is Legislative abuse .
In my proper person as a grandparent anyone approaching my grandchildren
sexually would be quite dead . And there is little to justify any other result .

I for one am willing to consider that unpopular though the views of ANY group
are , only deeds causing harm become a crime . And harm is simple to define .



Capybyra

" Censorship can make life so much easier - no need to worry about what to think
or read or believe as all such will be done for you by those who know themselves
things that you will not be allowed to "


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