Pretty cool, I did not know this:

https://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-histo...me-electrified

Why Hawaii Got Electricity Before Most of the Rest of the World

In 1881, Thomas Edison convinced King Kalakaua that electric streetlamps were superior to gas

'In 1881, King David Kalakaua of Hawaii went on a world tour, the first of its kind for a sitting monarch. He circumnavigated the globe, stopping in Asia, India, Egypt, Europe, and the United States. Among other things, he sought to encourage immigration from the Asia-Pacific region, as Hawaiis dwindling population had created a labor shortage on its sugar plantations. But the king also wanted to introduce the culture of Hawaii to the world, and he was curious about modern science and technology.

When he arrived in Paris in August 1881, the International Exposition of Electricity was just getting under way. The exposition showcased the latest advancements in electrical technology, such as dynamos, batteries, and lighting. The first International Electrical Congress also convened during the exposition, with participants presenting papers, discussing research, and deciding on definitions for the ampere, the volt, the ohm, and other electrical units.

King Kalakaua visited the exposition and was eager to learn more. George Jones [PDF], cofounder of The New York Times, met the king in Vienna and promised an introduction to Thomas Edison. That meeting took place on 25 September 1881 in Edisons New York City office. According to The Sun (New York), the king and the inventor discussed not only the technicalities of electric lights but also the business of selling power.

As described in The Sun, Hawaiis attorney general, William N. Armstrong, told Edison that the kingdom had a volcano €œthat burns a thousand million tons of coal a day.€� He jokingly added: €œYou could put your boilers on top of the volcano and get power enough to supply the country.€� Apparently, Edison didnt get the joke and asked if that was where Hawaii mined its coal. Armstrong replied that in fact Hawaii imported its coal from Australia, but the volcano was their great hope. Some people have since speculated that Armstrongs remark indicated an early interest in geothermal power, but it was more likely a failed attempt at humor.

In any event, Kalakaua explained to Edison that he was keen to upgrade the kerosene lamps that lit the streets of Honolulu but couldnt decide between gas and electricity. He wanted to see a full and practical trial of electric lights before deciding. For that, the king had to wait another five years.

On 21 July 1886, Honolulu businessman Charles Otto Berger organized a demonstration of electric lights at Iolani Palace. It drew a crowd of 5,000 spectators and included a Hawaiian band and a military parade.

A few months later, the royal residency and palace grounds were fully illuminated for the kings birthday, on 16 November 1886. [An original chandelier from the throne room is pictured at top, although these days it uses LED lights.] Electric lighting extended to the streets of Honolulu when Princess Kaiulani threw the switch on 23 March 1888.

Two of the greatest challenges to the electrification of Hawaii were getting equipment to the island nation and establishing an appropriate fuel supply. Machinery for the power plants came from the United States, including a turbine manufactured by Leffel & Co., in Springfield, Ohio, dynamos from the Thomson-Houston Co., in Massachusetts, and piping and valves from Risdon Ironworks, in San Francisco.

As for the second challenge, hydroelectric power seemed a natural choice given Hawaiis terrain and wet climate. The Nuuanu stream, about 6 kilometers northeast of the palace, fed the first electric light station that powered Honolulus streetlights. But its water flow was uneven, and so the next station to be built was coal fired.

Interestingly, the electrification of Iolani Palace was not the first demonstration of electric lighting in the Hawaiian Islands. That distinction goes to a sugar mill on Maui owned by sugar magnate Claus Spreckels. On 22 September 1881, Spreckels demonstrated electric lights at Mill No. 1 on his plantation. He realized that artificial lighting would allow his workers to process sugar cane around the clock, thus avoiding the expense of any downtime during peak season. King Kalakaua and members of the royal household inspected Spreckelss mills numerous times. Dowager Queen Emma, the widow of King Kamehameha IV, reportedly exclaimed that the electric lights were like daylight.

At the time, Spreckels held a near monopoly on the sugarcane industry in Hawaii, thanks to his close ties to King Kalakaua. Spreckels had bought political influence by making personal loans to the king and €œgifts€� to the kingdom. When he was initially establishing his first sugar plantation, for example, Spreckels sought water rights for irrigation, but the Hawaiian cabinet balked. After the businessman made certain monetary donations, however, a new cabinet was installed, and they promptly approved Spreckelss water rights as well as the construction of a 65-km-long irrigation ditch, the longest in the kingdom at the time.

By 1886, though, Spreckels and the king had fallen out. Kalakaua, looking to diversify his kingdoms business base, viewed electricity and other new technologies as a way to encourage investment. After the successful display of electric streetlights, the Honolulu company E.O. Hall & Son began installing generators in homes and on sugarcane plantations. By 1890, almost 800 Honolulu residences were enjoying the luxury of electricity, at a time when most people in Europe and the United States still did without. A year later, several officers of E.O. Hall formed the Hawaiian Electric Co. (HECO).

The king didnt live long enough to see the completion of all that he had set in motion. In 1891, while visiting California, he died of kidney disease. His sister Liliuokalani succeeded him, but her reign proved brief. Five days before the Hawaiian monarchy was overthrown in 1893, in one of her last official acts, the queen approved legislation for the Hawaiian government to provide and regulate the production of electricity in Honolulu. HECO, the only bidder, was granted a 10-year lease to supply power to the people of Honolulu. The provisional Hawaiian government retained control over the original Nuuanu Electric Power Station to power the streetlights.

On 23 March 2018, the 130th anniversary of the illumination of Honolulu, an IEEE Milestone was dedicated to €œthe electric lighting of the Kingdom of Hawaii 1886€“1888.€� Spreckelss sugar mill on Maui no longer exists, but Iolani Palace is open to the public Monday through Saturday, 9:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m.

An abridged version of this article appears in the April 2018 print issue as €œEdison and the King.€�

Part of a continuing series looking at photographs of historical artifacts that embrace the boundless potential of technology...'

About the Author
Allison Marsh is an associate professor of history at the University of South Carolina and codirector of the Ann Johnson Institute for Science, Technology & Society there.

On Thursday, August 9, 2018 at 1:28:16 PM UTC-10, GM wrote:
> Pretty cool, I did not know this:
>
> https://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-histo...me-electrified
>
> Why Hawaii Got Electricity Before Most of the Rest of the World
>
> In 1881, Thomas Edison convinced King Kalakaua that electric streetlamps were superior to gas
>
> 'In 1881, King David Kalakaua of Hawaii went on a world tour, the first of its kind for a sitting monarch. He circumnavigated the globe, stopping in Asia, India, Egypt, Europe, and the United States. Among other things, he sought to encourage immigration from the Asia-Pacific region, as Hawaiis dwindling population had created a labor shortage on its sugar plantations. But the king also wanted to introduce the culture of Hawaii to the world, and he was curious about modern science and technology.
>
> When he arrived in Paris in August 1881, the International Exposition of Electricity was just getting under way. The exposition showcased the latest advancements in electrical technology, such as dynamos, batteries, and lighting. The first International Electrical Congress also convened during the exposition, with participants presenting papers, discussing research, and deciding on definitions for the ampere, the volt, the ohm, and other electrical units.
>
> King Kalakaua visited the exposition and was eager to learn more. George Jones [PDF], cofounder of The New York Times, met the king in Vienna and promised an introduction to Thomas Edison. That meeting took place on 25 September 1881 in Edisons New York City office. According to The Sun (New York), the king and the inventor discussed not only the technicalities of electric lights but also the business of selling power.
>
> As described in The Sun, Hawaiis attorney general, William N. Armstrong, told Edison that the kingdom had a volcano €œthat burns a thousand million tons of coal a day.€� He jokingly added: €œYou could put your boilers on top of the volcano and get power enough to supply the country.€� Apparently, Edison didnt get the joke and asked if that was where Hawaii mined its coal. Armstrong replied that in fact Hawaii imported its coal from Australia, but the volcano was their great hope. Some people have since speculated that Armstrongs remark indicated an early interest in geothermal power, but it was more likely a failed attempt at humor.
>
> In any event, Kalakaua explained to Edison that he was keen to upgrade the kerosene lamps that lit the streets of Honolulu but couldnt decide between gas and electricity. He wanted to see a full and practical trial of electric lights before deciding. For that, the king had to wait another five years.
>
> On 21 July 1886, Honolulu businessman Charles Otto Berger organized a demonstration of electric lights at Iolani Palace. It drew a crowd of 5,000 spectators and included a Hawaiian band and a military parade.
>
> A few months later, the royal residency and palace grounds were fully illuminated for the kings birthday, on 16 November 1886. [An original chandelier from the throne room is pictured at top, although these days it uses LED lights.] Electric lighting extended to the streets of Honolulu when Princess Kaiulani threw the switch on 23 March 1888.
>
> Two of the greatest challenges to the electrification of Hawaii were getting equipment to the island nation and establishing an appropriate fuel supply. Machinery for the power plants came from the United States, including a turbine manufactured by Leffel & Co., in Springfield, Ohio, dynamos from the Thomson-Houston Co., in Massachusetts, and piping and valves from Risdon Ironworks, in San Francisco.
>
> As for the second challenge, hydroelectric power seemed a natural choice given Hawaiis terrain and wet climate. The Nuuanu stream, about 6 kilometers northeast of the palace, fed the first electric light station that powered Honolulus streetlights. But its water flow was uneven, and so the next station to be built was coal fired.
>
> Interestingly, the electrification of Iolani Palace was not the first demonstration of electric lighting in the Hawaiian Islands. That distinction goes to a sugar mill on Maui owned by sugar magnate Claus Spreckels. On 22 September 1881, Spreckels demonstrated electric lights at Mill No. 1 on his plantation. He realized that artificial lighting would allow his workers to process sugar cane around the clock, thus avoiding the expense of any downtime during peak season. King Kalakaua and members of the royal household inspected Spreckelss mills numerous times. Dowager Queen Emma, the widow of King Kamehameha IV, reportedly exclaimed that the electric lights were like daylight.
>
> At the time, Spreckels held a near monopoly on the sugarcane industry in Hawaii, thanks to his close ties to King Kalakaua. Spreckels had bought political influence by making personal loans to the king and €œgifts€� to the kingdom. When he was initially establishing his first sugar plantation, for example, Spreckels sought water rights for irrigation, but the Hawaiian cabinet balked. After the businessman made certain monetary donations, however, a new cabinet was installed, and they promptly approved Spreckelss water rights as well as the construction of a 65-km-long irrigation ditch, the longest in the kingdom at the time.
>
> By 1886, though, Spreckels and the king had fallen out. Kalakaua, looking to diversify his kingdoms business base, viewed electricity and other new technologies as a way to encourage investment. After the successful display of electric streetlights, the Honolulu company E.O. Hall & Son began installing generators in homes and on sugarcane plantations. By 1890, almost 800 Honolulu residences were enjoying the luxury of electricity, at a time when most people in Europe and the United States still did without. A year later, several officers of E.O. Hall formed the Hawaiian Electric Co. (HECO).
>
> The king didnt live long enough to see the completion of all that he had set in motion. In 1891, while visiting California, he died of kidney disease. His sister Liliuokalani succeeded him, but her reign proved brief. Five days before the Hawaiian monarchy was overthrown in 1893, in one of her last official acts, the queen approved legislation for the Hawaiian government to provide and regulate the production of electricity in Honolulu. HECO, the only bidder, was granted a 10-year lease to supply power to the people of Honolulu. The provisional Hawaiian government retained control over the original Nuuanu Electric Power Station to power the streetlights.
>
> On 23 March 2018, the 130th anniversary of the illumination of Honolulu, an IEEE Milestone was dedicated to €œthe electric lighting of the Kingdom of Hawaii 1886€“1888.€� Spreckelss sugar mill on Maui no longer exists, but Iolani Palace is open to the public Monday through Saturday, 9:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m.
>
> An abridged version of this article appears in the April 2018 print issue as €œEdison and the King.€�
>
> Part of a continuing series looking at photographs of historical artifacts that embrace the boundless potential of technology...'
>
> About the Author
> Allison Marsh is an associate professor of history at the University of South Carolina and codirector of the Ann Johnson Institute for Science, Technology & Society there.

Interesting article. The Royal Hawaiians were an oddly progressive lot and were eager to learn the ways of the English and Americans. In the end, they got more than they bargained for. In the scant 115 years after Captain Cook landed on these shores, the Hawaiians lost everything and the Kingdom of Hawaii was gone. Some people still feel raw about that.

"GM" wrote in message
...

Pretty cool, I did not know this:

https://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-histo...me-electrified

Why Hawaii Got Electricity Before Most of the Rest of the World

In 1881, Thomas Edison convinced King Kalakaua that electric streetlamps
were superior to gas

'In 1881, King David Kalakaua of Hawaii went on a world tour, the first of
its kind for a sitting monarch. He circumnavigated the globe, stopping in
Asia, India, Egypt, Europe, and the United States. Among other things, he
sought to encourage immigration from the Asia-Pacific region, as Hawaiis
dwindling population had created a labor shortage on its sugar plantations.
But the king also wanted to introduce the culture of Hawaii to the world,
and he was curious about modern science and technology.

When he arrived in Paris in August 1881, the International Exposition of
Electricity was just getting under way. The exposition showcased the latest
advancements in electrical technology, such as dynamos, batteries, and
lighting. The first International Electrical Congress also convened during
the exposition, with participants presenting papers, discussing research,
and deciding on definitions for the ampere, the volt, the ohm, and other
electrical units.

King Kalakaua visited the exposition and was eager to learn more. George
Jones [PDF], cofounder of The New York Times, met the king in Vienna and
promised an introduction to Thomas Edison. That meeting took place on 25
September 1881 in Edisons New York City office. According to The Sun (New
York), the king and the inventor discussed not only the technicalities of
electric lights but also the business of selling power.

As described in The Sun, Hawaiis attorney general, William N. Armstrong,
told Edison that the kingdom had a volcano €œthat burns a thousand million
tons of coal a day.€� He jokingly added: €œYou could put your boilers on top
of the volcano and get power enough to supply the country.€� Apparently,
Edison didnt get the joke and asked if that was where Hawaii mined its
coal. Armstrong replied that in fact Hawaii imported its coal from
Australia, but the volcano was their great hope. Some people have since
speculated that Armstrongs remark indicated an early interest in geothermal
power, but it was more likely a failed attempt at humor.

In any event, Kalakaua explained to Edison that he was keen to upgrade the
kerosene lamps that lit the streets of Honolulu but couldnt decide between
gas and electricity. He wanted to see a full and practical trial of electric
lights before deciding. For that, the king had to wait another five years.

On 21 July 1886, Honolulu businessman Charles Otto Berger organized a
demonstration of electric lights at Iolani Palace. It drew a crowd of 5,000
spectators and included a Hawaiian band and a military parade.

A few months later, the royal residency and palace grounds were fully
illuminated for the kings birthday, on 16 November 1886. [An original
chandelier from the throne room is pictured at top, although these days it
uses LED lights.] Electric lighting extended to the streets of Honolulu when
Princess Kaiulani threw the switch on 23 March 1888.

Two of the greatest challenges to the electrification of Hawaii were getting
equipment to the island nation and establishing an appropriate fuel supply.
Machinery for the power plants came from the United States, including a
turbine manufactured by Leffel & Co., in Springfield, Ohio, dynamos from the
Thomson-Houston Co., in Massachusetts, and piping and valves from Risdon
Ironworks, in San Francisco.

As for the second challenge, hydroelectric power seemed a natural choice
given Hawaiis terrain and wet climate. The Nuuanu stream, about 6
kilometers northeast of the palace, fed the first electric light station
that powered Honolulus streetlights. But its water flow was uneven, and so
the next station to be built was coal fired.

Interestingly, the electrification of Iolani Palace was not the first
demonstration of electric lighting in the Hawaiian Islands. That distinction
goes to a sugar mill on Maui owned by sugar magnate Claus Spreckels. On 22
September 1881, Spreckels demonstrated electric lights at Mill No. 1 on his
plantation. He realized that artificial lighting would allow his workers to
process sugar cane around the clock, thus avoiding the expense of any
downtime during peak season. King Kalakaua and members of the royal
household inspected Spreckelss mills numerous times. Dowager Queen Emma,
the widow of King Kamehameha IV, reportedly exclaimed that the electric
lights were like daylight.

At the time, Spreckels held a near monopoly on the sugarcane industry in
Hawaii, thanks to his close ties to King Kalakaua. Spreckels had bought
political influence by making personal loans to the king and €œgifts€� to the
kingdom. When he was initially establishing his first sugar plantation, for
example, Spreckels sought water rights for irrigation, but the Hawaiian
cabinet balked. After the businessman made certain monetary donations,
however, a new cabinet was installed, and they promptly approved Spreckelss
water rights as well as the construction of a 65-km-long irrigation ditch,
the longest in the kingdom at the time.

By 1886, though, Spreckels and the king had fallen out. Kalakaua, looking to
diversify his kingdoms business base, viewed electricity and other new
technologies as a way to encourage investment. After the successful display
of electric streetlights, the Honolulu company E.O. Hall & Son began
installing generators in homes and on sugarcane plantations. By 1890, almost
800 Honolulu residences were enjoying the luxury of electricity, at a time
when most people in Europe and the United States still did without. A year
later, several officers of E.O. Hall formed the Hawaiian Electric Co.
(HECO).

The king didnt live long enough to see the completion of all that he had
set in motion. In 1891, while visiting California, he died of kidney
disease. His sister Liliuokalani succeeded him, but her reign proved brief.
Five days before the Hawaiian monarchy was overthrown in 1893, in one of her
last official acts, the queen approved legislation for the Hawaiian
government to provide and regulate the production of electricity in
Honolulu. HECO, the only bidder, was granted a 10-year lease to supply power
to the people of Honolulu. The provisional Hawaiian government retained
control over the original Nuuanu Electric Power Station to power the
streetlights.

On 23 March 2018, the 130th anniversary of the illumination of Honolulu, an
IEEE Milestone was dedicated to €œthe electric lighting of the Kingdom of
Hawaii 1886€“1888.€� Spreckelss sugar mill on Maui no longer exists, but
Iolani Palace is open to the public Monday through Saturday, 9:00 a.m. to
4:00 p.m.

An abridged version of this article appears in the April 2018 print issue as
€œEdison and the King.€�

Part of a continuing series looking at photographs of historical artifacts
that embrace the boundless potential of technology...'

About the Author
Allison Marsh is an associate professor of history at the University of
South Carolina and codirector of the Ann Johnson Institute for Science,
Technology & Society there.

==

Fascinating stuff! Thanks for sharing

"dsi1" wrote in message
...

On Thursday, August 9, 2018 at 1:28:16 PM UTC-10, GM wrote:
> Pretty cool, I did not know this:
>
> https://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-histo...me-electrified
>
> Why Hawaii Got Electricity Before Most of the Rest of the World
>
> In 1881, Thomas Edison convinced King Kalakaua that electric streetlamps
> were superior to gas
>
> 'In 1881, King David Kalakaua of Hawaii went on a world tour, the first of
> its kind for a sitting monarch. He circumnavigated the globe, stopping in
> Asia, India, Egypt, Europe, and the United States. Among other things, he
> sought to encourage immigration from the Asia-Pacific region, as Hawaiis
> dwindling population had created a labor shortage on its sugar
> plantations. But the king also wanted to introduce the culture of Hawaii
> to the world, and he was curious about modern science and technology.
>
> When he arrived in Paris in August 1881, the International Exposition of
> Electricity was just getting under way. The exposition showcased the
> latest advancements in electrical technology, such as dynamos, batteries,
> and lighting. The first International Electrical Congress also convened
> during the exposition, with participants presenting papers, discussing
> research, and deciding on definitions for the ampere, the volt, the ohm,
> and other electrical units.
>
> King Kalakaua visited the exposition and was eager to learn more. George
> Jones [PDF], cofounder of The New York Times, met the king in Vienna and
> promised an introduction to Thomas Edison. That meeting took place on 25
> September 1881 in Edisons New York City office. According to The Sun (New
> York), the king and the inventor discussed not only the technicalities of
> electric lights but also the business of selling power.
>
> As described in The Sun, Hawaiis attorney general, William N. Armstrong,
> told Edison that the kingdom had a volcano €œthat burns a thousand million
> tons of coal a day.€� He jokingly added: €œYou could put your boilers on top
> of the volcano and get power enough to supply the country.€� Apparently,
> Edison didnt get the joke and asked if that was where Hawaii mined its
> coal. Armstrong replied that in fact Hawaii imported its coal from
> Australia, but the volcano was their great hope. Some people have since
> speculated that Armstrongs remark indicated an early interest in
> geothermal power, but it was more likely a failed attempt at humor.
>
> In any event, Kalakaua explained to Edison that he was keen to upgrade the
> kerosene lamps that lit the streets of Honolulu but couldnt decide
> between gas and electricity. He wanted to see a full and practical trial
> of electric lights before deciding. For that, the king had to wait another
> five years.
>
> On 21 July 1886, Honolulu businessman Charles Otto Berger organized a
> demonstration of electric lights at Iolani Palace. It drew a crowd of
> 5,000 spectators and included a Hawaiian band and a military parade.
>
> A few months later, the royal residency and palace grounds were fully
> illuminated for the kings birthday, on 16 November 1886. [An original
> chandelier from the throne room is pictured at top, although these days it
> uses LED lights.] Electric lighting extended to the streets of Honolulu
> when Princess Kaiulani threw the switch on 23 March 1888.
>
> Two of the greatest challenges to the electrification of Hawaii were
> getting equipment to the island nation and establishing an appropriate
> fuel supply. Machinery for the power plants came from the United States,
> including a turbine manufactured by Leffel & Co., in Springfield, Ohio,
> dynamos from the Thomson-Houston Co., in Massachusetts, and piping and
> valves from Risdon Ironworks, in San Francisco.
>
> As for the second challenge, hydroelectric power seemed a natural choice
> given Hawaiis terrain and wet climate. The Nuuanu stream, about 6
> kilometers northeast of the palace, fed the first electric light station
> that powered Honolulus streetlights. But its water flow was uneven, and
> so the next station to be built was coal fired.
>
> Interestingly, the electrification of Iolani Palace was not the first
> demonstration of electric lighting in the Hawaiian Islands. That
> distinction goes to a sugar mill on Maui owned by sugar magnate Claus
> Spreckels. On 22 September 1881, Spreckels demonstrated electric lights at
> Mill No. 1 on his plantation. He realized that artificial lighting would
> allow his workers to process sugar cane around the clock, thus avoiding
> the expense of any downtime during peak season. King Kalakaua and members
> of the royal household inspected Spreckelss mills numerous times. Dowager
> Queen Emma, the widow of King Kamehameha IV, reportedly exclaimed that the
> electric lights were like daylight.
>
> At the time, Spreckels held a near monopoly on the sugarcane industry in
> Hawaii, thanks to his close ties to King Kalakaua. Spreckels had bought
> political influence by making personal loans to the king and €œgifts€� to
> the kingdom. When he was initially establishing his first sugar
> plantation, for example, Spreckels sought water rights for irrigation, but
> the Hawaiian cabinet balked. After the businessman made certain monetary
> donations, however, a new cabinet was installed, and they promptly
> approved Spreckelss water rights as well as the construction of a
> 65-km-long irrigation ditch, the longest in the kingdom at the time.
>
> By 1886, though, Spreckels and the king had fallen out. Kalakaua, looking
> to diversify his kingdoms business base, viewed electricity and other new
> technologies as a way to encourage investment. After the successful
> display of electric streetlights, the Honolulu company E.O. Hall & Son
> began installing generators in homes and on sugarcane plantations. By
> 1890, almost 800 Honolulu residences were enjoying the luxury of
> electricity, at a time when most people in Europe and the United States
> still did without. A year later, several officers of E.O. Hall formed the
> Hawaiian Electric Co. (HECO).
>
> The king didnt live long enough to see the completion of all that he had
> set in motion. In 1891, while visiting California, he died of kidney
> disease. His sister Liliuokalani succeeded him, but her reign proved
> brief. Five days before the Hawaiian monarchy was overthrown in 1893, in
> one of her last official acts, the queen approved legislation for the
> Hawaiian government to provide and regulate the production of electricity
> in Honolulu. HECO, the only bidder, was granted a 10-year lease to supply
> power to the people of Honolulu. The provisional Hawaiian government
> retained control over the original Nuuanu Electric Power Station to power
> the streetlights.
>
> On 23 March 2018, the 130th anniversary of the illumination of Honolulu,
> an IEEE Milestone was dedicated to €œthe electric lighting of the Kingdom
> of Hawaii 1886€“1888.€� Spreckelss sugar mill on Maui no longer exists, but
> Iolani Palace is open to the public Monday through Saturday, 9:00 a.m. to
> 4:00 p.m.
>
> An abridged version of this article appears in the April 2018 print issue
> as €œEdison and the King.€�
>
> Part of a continuing series looking at photographs of historical artifacts
> that embrace the boundless potential of technology...'
>
> About the Author
> Allison Marsh is an associate professor of history at the University of
> South Carolina and codirector of the Ann Johnson Institute for Science,
> Technology & Society there.

Interesting article. The Royal Hawaiians were an oddly progressive lot and
were eager to learn the ways of the English and Americans. In the end, they
got more than they bargained for. In the scant 115 years after Captain Cook
landed on these shores, the Hawaiians lost everything and the Kingdom of
Hawaii was gone. Some people still feel raw about that.

==

Understandable Has that independence been recovered at all? Pardon me
for my ignorance, but I knew nothing about Hawaii till I came here.

On 8/10/2018 7:34 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>
>
> "dsi1" wrote in message
> ...
>
> On Thursday, August 9, 2018 at 1:28:16 PM UTC-10, GM wrote:
>> Pretty cool, I did not know this:
>>
>> https://spectrum.ieee.org/tech-histo...me-electrified
>>
>> Why Hawaii Got Electricity Before Most of the Rest of the World
>>
>> In 1881, Thomas Edison convinced King Kalakaua that electric streetlamps
>> were superior to gas
>>
>> 'In 1881, King David Kalakaua of Hawaii went on a world tour, the first of
>> its kind for a sitting monarch. He circumnavigated the globe, stopping in
>> Asia, India, Egypt, Europe, and the United States. Among other things, he
>> sought to encourage immigration from the Asia-Pacific region, as Hawaiis
>> dwindling population had created a labor shortage on its sugar
>> plantations. But the king also wanted to introduce the culture of Hawaii
>> to the world, and he was curious about modern science and technology.
>>
>> When he arrived in Paris in August 1881, the International Exposition of
>> Electricity was just getting under way. The exposition showcased the
>> latest advancements in electrical technology, such as dynamos, batteries,
>> and lighting. The first International Electrical Congress also convened
>> during the exposition, with participants presenting papers, discussing
>> research, and deciding on definitions for the ampere, the volt, the ohm,
>> and other electrical units.
>>
>> King Kalakaua visited the exposition and was eager to learn more. George
>> Jones [PDF], cofounder of The New York Times, met the king in Vienna and
>> promised an introduction to Thomas Edison. That meeting took place on 25
>> September 1881 in Edisons New York City office. According to The Sun (New
>> York), the king and the inventor discussed not only the technicalities of
>> electric lights but also the business of selling power.
>>
>> As described in The Sun, Hawaiis attorney general, William N. Armstrong,
>> told Edison that the kingdom had a volcano €œthat burns a thousand million
>> tons of coal a day.€� He jokingly added: €œYou could put your boilers on top
>> of the volcano and get power enough to supply the country.€� Apparently,
>> Edison didnt get the joke and asked if that was where Hawaii mined its
>> coal. Armstrong replied that in fact Hawaii imported its coal from
>> Australia, but the volcano was their great hope. Some people have since
>> speculated that Armstrongs remark indicated an early interest in
>> geothermal power, but it was more likely a failed attempt at humor.
>>
>> In any event, Kalakaua explained to Edison that he was keen to upgrade the
>> kerosene lamps that lit the streets of Honolulu but couldnt decide
>> between gas and electricity. He wanted to see a full and practical trial
>> of electric lights before deciding. For that, the king had to wait another
>> five years.
>>
>> On 21 July 1886, Honolulu businessman Charles Otto Berger organized a
>> demonstration of electric lights at Iolani Palace. It drew a crowd of
>> 5,000 spectators and included a Hawaiian band and a military parade.
>>
>> A few months later, the royal residency and palace grounds were fully
>> illuminated for the kings birthday, on 16 November 1886. [An original
>> chandelier from the throne room is pictured at top, although these days it
>> uses LED lights.] Electric lighting extended to the streets of Honolulu
>> when Princess Kaiulani threw the switch on 23 March 1888.
>>
>> Two of the greatest challenges to the electrification of Hawaii were
>> getting equipment to the island nation and establishing an appropriate
>> fuel supply. Machinery for the power plants came from the United States,
>> including a turbine manufactured by Leffel & Co., in Springfield, Ohio,
>> dynamos from the Thomson-Houston Co., in Massachusetts, and piping and
>> valves from Risdon Ironworks, in San Francisco.
>>
>> As for the second challenge, hydroelectric power seemed a natural choice
>> given Hawaiis terrain and wet climate. The Nuuanu stream, about 6
>> kilometers northeast of the palace, fed the first electric light station
>> that powered Honolulus streetlights. But its water flow was uneven, and
>> so the next station to be built was coal fired.
>>
>> Interestingly, the electrification of Iolani Palace was not the first
>> demonstration of electric lighting in the Hawaiian Islands. That
>> distinction goes to a sugar mill on Maui owned by sugar magnate Claus
>> Spreckels. On 22 September 1881, Spreckels demonstrated electric lights at
>> Mill No. 1 on his plantation. He realized that artificial lighting would
>> allow his workers to process sugar cane around the clock, thus avoiding
>> the expense of any downtime during peak season. King Kalakaua and members
>> of the royal household inspected Spreckelss mills numerous times. Dowager
>> Queen Emma, the widow of King Kamehameha IV, reportedly exclaimed that the
>> electric lights were like daylight.
>>
>> At the time, Spreckels held a near monopoly on the sugarcane industry in
>> Hawaii, thanks to his close ties to King Kalakaua. Spreckels had bought
>> political influence by making personal loans to the king and €œgifts€� to
>> the kingdom. When he was initially establishing his first sugar
>> plantation, for example, Spreckels sought water rights for irrigation, but
>> the Hawaiian cabinet balked. After the businessman made certain monetary
>> donations, however, a new cabinet was installed, and they promptly
>> approved Spreckelss water rights as well as the construction of a
>> 65-km-long irrigation ditch, the longest in the kingdom at the time.
>>
>> By 1886, though, Spreckels and the king had fallen out. Kalakaua, looking
>> to diversify his kingdoms business base, viewed electricity and other new
>> technologies as a way to encourage investment. After the successful
>> display of electric streetlights, the Honolulu company E.O. Hall & Son
>> began installing generators in homes and on sugarcane plantations. By
>> 1890, almost 800 Honolulu residences were enjoying the luxury of
>> electricity, at a time when most people in Europe and the United States
>> still did without. A year later, several officers of E.O. Hall formed the
>> Hawaiian Electric Co. (HECO).
>>
>> The king didnt live long enough to see the completion of all that he had
>> set in motion. In 1891, while visiting California, he died of kidney
>> disease. His sister Liliuokalani succeeded him, but her reign proved
>> brief. Five days before the Hawaiian monarchy was overthrown in 1893, in
>> one of her last official acts, the queen approved legislation for the
>> Hawaiian government to provide and regulate the production of electricity
>> in Honolulu. HECO, the only bidder, was granted a 10-year lease to supply
>> power to the people of Honolulu. The provisional Hawaiian government
>> retained control over the original Nuuanu Electric Power Station to power
>> the streetlights.
>>
>> On 23 March 2018, the 130th anniversary of the illumination of Honolulu,
>> an IEEE Milestone was dedicated to €œthe electric lighting of the Kingdom
>> of Hawaii 1886€“1888.€� Spreckelss sugar mill on Maui no longer exists, but
>> Iolani Palace is open to the public Monday through Saturday, 9:00 a.m. to
>> 4:00 p.m.
>>
>> An abridged version of this article appears in the April 2018 print issue
>> as €œEdison and the King.€�
>>
>> Part of a continuing series looking at photographs of historical artifacts
>> that embrace the boundless potential of technology...'
>>
>> About the Author
>> Allison Marsh is an associate professor of history at the University of
>> South Carolina and codirector of the Ann Johnson Institute for Science,
>> Technology & Society there.
>
> Interesting article. The Royal Hawaiians were an oddly progressive lot and
> were eager to learn the ways of the English and Americans. In the end, they
> got more than they bargained for. In the scant 115 years after Captain Cook
> landed on these shores, the Hawaiians lost everything and the Kingdom of
> Hawaii was gone. Some people still feel raw about that.
>
> ==
>
> Understandable Has that independence been recovered at all? Pardon me
> for my ignorance, but I knew nothing about Hawaii till I came here.
>
>

They are better off than if they had been wiped out by the Japanese
during WWII, which surely would have happened if it was not a US base.

On Friday, August 10, 2018 at 4:38:30 AM UTC-10, Ophelia wrote:
> ==
>
> Understandable Has that independence been recovered at all? Pardon me
> for my ignorance, but I knew nothing about Hawaii till I came here.

Not much is going on with the Hawaiian Sovereignty Movement. That fire burned brightly in the 70's but it's fading fast. Mostly, it's wishful dreaming. My guess is that nobody will care in the future. That's the breaks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LC7Xoe7DDSU

On Saturday, August 11, 2018 at 11:16:38 AM UTC-10, Taxed and Spent wrote:
>
> They are better off than if they had been wiped out by the Japanese
> during WWII, which surely would have happened if it was not a US base.

It is important that the people doing the land grabbing and oppression believe that they are doing God's work and that they are morally right. That's always been the case. So what else is new?

"dsi1" wrote in message
...

On Friday, August 10, 2018 at 4:38:30 AM UTC-10, Ophelia wrote:
> ==
>
> Understandable Has that independence been recovered at all? Pardon me
> for my ignorance, but I knew nothing about Hawaii till I came here.

Not much is going on with the Hawaiian Sovereignty Movement. That fire
burned brightly in the 70's but it's fading fast. Mostly, it's wishful
dreaming. My guess is that nobody will care in the future. That's the
breaks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LC7Xoe7DDSU
==

That is a shame

"dsi1" wrote in message
...

On Friday, August 10, 2018 at 4:38:30 AM UTC-10, Ophelia wrote:
> ==
>
> Understandable Has that independence been recovered at all? Pardon me
> for my ignorance, but I knew nothing about Hawaii till I came here.

Not much is going on with the Hawaiian Sovereignty Movement. That fire
burned brightly in the 70's but it's fading fast. Mostly, it's wishful
dreaming. My guess is that nobody will care in the future. That's the
breaks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LC7Xoe7DDSU

==

Ahh just seen this! Thanks

"dsi1" wrote in message
...

On Friday, August 10, 2018 at 4:38:30 AM UTC-10, Ophelia wrote:
> ==
>
> Understandable Has that independence been recovered at all? Pardon me
> for my ignorance, but I knew nothing about Hawaii till I came here.

Not much is going on with the Hawaiian Sovereignty Movement. That fire
burned brightly in the 70's but it's fading fast. Mostly, it's wishful
dreaming. My guess is that nobody will care in the future. That's the
breaks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LC7Xoe7DDSU

==

Lovely video and I agree with the sentiment completely. We ought to have
the EU off our back very soon ... fingers crossed.

On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 10:28:52 +0100, "Ophelia" >
wrote:

>
>
>"dsi1" wrote in message
...
>
>On Friday, August 10, 2018 at 4:38:30 AM UTC-10, Ophelia wrote:
>> ==
>>
>> Understandable Has that independence been recovered at all? Pardon me
>> for my ignorance, but I knew nothing about Hawaii till I came here.
>
>Not much is going on with the Hawaiian Sovereignty Movement. That fire
>burned brightly in the 70's but it's fading fast. Mostly, it's wishful
>dreaming. My guess is that nobody will care in the future. That's the
>breaks.
>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LC7Xoe7DDSU
>
>==
>
>Lovely video and I agree with the sentiment completely. We ought to have
>the EU off our back very soon ... fingers crossed.

But on which terms... The UK was part of the EU. Now the UK will be
EU's little bitch. I wonder what's worse

"Druce" wrote in message ...

On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 10:28:52 +0100, "Ophelia" >
wrote:

>
>
>"dsi1" wrote in message
...
>
>On Friday, August 10, 2018 at 4:38:30 AM UTC-10, Ophelia wrote:
>> ==
>>
>> Understandable Has that independence been recovered at all? Pardon me
>> for my ignorance, but I knew nothing about Hawaii till I came here.
>
>Not much is going on with the Hawaiian Sovereignty Movement. That fire
>burned brightly in the 70's but it's fading fast. Mostly, it's wishful
>dreaming. My guess is that nobody will care in the future. That's the
>breaks.
>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LC7Xoe7DDSU
>
>==
>
>Lovely video and I agree with the sentiment completely. We ought to have
>the EU off our back very soon ... fingers crossed.

But on which terms... The UK was part of the EU. Now the UK will be
EU's little bitch. I wonder what's worse

==

It better not be!!! Whoever agrees to that will soon find their arses
kicked out.

On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 10:38:55 +0100, "Ophelia" >
wrote:

>
>
>"Druce" wrote in message ...
>
>On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 10:28:52 +0100, "Ophelia" >
>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>"dsi1" wrote in message
...
>>
>>On Friday, August 10, 2018 at 4:38:30 AM UTC-10, Ophelia wrote:
>>> ==
>>>
>>> Understandable Has that independence been recovered at all? Pardon me
>>> for my ignorance, but I knew nothing about Hawaii till I came here.
>>
>>Not much is going on with the Hawaiian Sovereignty Movement. That fire
>>burned brightly in the 70's but it's fading fast. Mostly, it's wishful
>>dreaming. My guess is that nobody will care in the future. That's the
>>breaks.
>>
>>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LC7Xoe7DDSU
>>
>>==
>>
>>Lovely video and I agree with the sentiment completely. We ought to have
>>the EU off our back very soon ... fingers crossed.
>
>But on which terms... The UK was part of the EU. Now the UK will be
>EU's little bitch. I wonder what's worse
>
>==
>
>It better not be!!! Whoever agrees to that will soon find their arses
>kicked out.

But aren't your hardliners, like Boris Johnson and that Brexit
minister, losing?

"Druce" wrote in message ...

On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 10:38:55 +0100, "Ophelia" >
wrote:

>
>
>"Druce" wrote in message
.. .
>
>On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 10:28:52 +0100, "Ophelia" >
>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>"dsi1" wrote in message
...
>>
>>On Friday, August 10, 2018 at 4:38:30 AM UTC-10, Ophelia wrote:
>>> ==
>>>
>>> Understandable Has that independence been recovered at all? Pardon
>>> me
>>> for my ignorance, but I knew nothing about Hawaii till I came here.
>>
>>Not much is going on with the Hawaiian Sovereignty Movement. That fire
>>burned brightly in the 70's but it's fading fast. Mostly, it's wishful
>>dreaming. My guess is that nobody will care in the future. That's the
>>breaks.
>>
>>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LC7Xoe7DDSU
>>
>>==
>>
>>Lovely video and I agree with the sentiment completely. We ought to have
>>the EU off our back very soon ... fingers crossed.
>
>But on which terms... The UK was part of the EU. Now the UK will be
>EU's little bitch. I wonder what's worse
>
>==
>
>It better not be!!! Whoever agrees to that will soon find their arses
>kicked out.

But aren't your hardliners, like Boris Johnson and that Brexit
minister, losing?

=

LOL no!!!!!

On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 12:25:02 +0100, "Ophelia" >
wrote:

>
>
>"Druce" wrote in message ...
>
>On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 10:38:55 +0100, "Ophelia" >
>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>"Druce" wrote in message
. ..
>>
>>On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 10:28:52 +0100, "Ophelia" >
>>wrote:
>>
>>>Lovely video and I agree with the sentiment completely. We ought to have
>>>the EU off our back very soon ... fingers crossed.
>>
>>But on which terms... The UK was part of the EU. Now the UK will be
>>EU's little bitch. I wonder what's worse
>>
>>==
>>
>>It better not be!!! Whoever agrees to that will soon find their arses
>>kicked out.
>
>But aren't your hardliners, like Boris Johnson and that Brexit
>minister, losing?
>
>=
>
>LOL no!!!!!

Ok, you'll know better than me. I'll wait and see

"Druce" wrote in message news
On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 12:25:02 +0100, "Ophelia" >
wrote:

>
>
>"Druce" wrote in message
.. .
>
>On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 10:38:55 +0100, "Ophelia" >
>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>"Druce" wrote in message
. ..
>>
>>On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 10:28:52 +0100, "Ophelia" >
>>wrote:
>>
>>>Lovely video and I agree with the sentiment completely. We ought to have
>>>the EU off our back very soon ... fingers crossed.
>>
>>But on which terms... The UK was part of the EU. Now the UK will be
>>EU's little bitch. I wonder what's worse
>>
>>==
>>
>>It better not be!!! Whoever agrees to that will soon find their arses
>>kicked out.
>
>But aren't your hardliners, like Boris Johnson and that Brexit
>minister, losing?
>
>=
>
>LOL no!!!!!

Ok, you'll know better than me. I'll wait and see

==

They resigned rather than let Theresa the Appeaser get away with her fudge.
(and they are not the only ones) She is a damned disaster. It gives them
freedom they wouldn't have if they still had to account to her. If she
gets her way, the Tories will be out of power for a generation and they know
it. Well, it will give UKIP a second go. Many Tories went to UKIP for the
referendum and when we got it, they went back to the Tories. Mess eh?

Problem is, UKIP won't get enough votes to form a Gov so it will split the
Tory vote and Labour will get in.

On Tuesday, August 14, 2018 at 11:26:15 PM UTC-10, Ophelia wrote:
> ==
>
> Ahh just seen this! Thanks

I can see the possibility of the Hawaiian Sovereignty Movement gaining momentum. The younger generation is being told what was once hidden when we were going to school.

Good luck with your move. It's quite a scary thing to break from the past but that's your people's decision to make.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3EPCBlOZu4

On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 13:58:38 +0100, "Ophelia" >
wrote:

>
>
>"Druce" wrote in message news >
>On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 12:25:02 +0100, "Ophelia" >
>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>"Druce" wrote in message
. ..
>>
>>On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 10:38:55 +0100, "Ophelia" >
>>wrote:
>>
>>>It better not be!!! Whoever agrees to that will soon find their arses
>>>kicked out.
>>
>>But aren't your hardliners, like Boris Johnson and that Brexit
>>minister, losing?
>>
>>=
>>
>>LOL no!!!!!
>
>Ok, you'll know better than me. I'll wait and see
>
>==
>
>They resigned rather than let Theresa the Appeaser get away with her fudge.
>(and they are not the only ones) She is a damned disaster. It gives them
>freedom they wouldn't have if they still had to account to her. If she
>gets her way, the Tories will be out of power for a generation and they know
>it. Well, it will give UKIP a second go. Many Tories went to UKIP for the
>referendum and when we got it, they went back to the Tories. Mess eh?
>
>Problem is, UKIP won't get enough votes to form a Gov so it will split the
>Tory vote and Labour will get in.

But after resigning, the hardliners are now sidelined, freedom or not,
and May will make the soft Brexit deal that she wanted. I'm not sure
how that's a good thing from your perspective.

"Druce" wrote in message ...

On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 13:58:38 +0100, "Ophelia" >
wrote:

>
>
>"Druce" wrote in message
>news >
>On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 12:25:02 +0100, "Ophelia" >
>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>"Druce" wrote in message
. ..
>>
>>On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 10:38:55 +0100, "Ophelia" >
>>wrote:
>>
>>>It better not be!!! Whoever agrees to that will soon find their arses
>>>kicked out.
>>
>>But aren't your hardliners, like Boris Johnson and that Brexit
>>minister, losing?
>>
>>=
>>
>>LOL no!!!!!
>
>Ok, you'll know better than me. I'll wait and see
>
>==
>
>They resigned rather than let Theresa the Appeaser get away with her fudge.
>(and they are not the only ones) She is a damned disaster. It gives them
>freedom they wouldn't have if they still had to account to her. If she
>gets her way, the Tories will be out of power for a generation and they
>know
>it. Well, it will give UKIP a second go. Many Tories went to UKIP for the
>referendum and when we got it, they went back to the Tories. Mess eh?
>
>Problem is, UKIP won't get enough votes to form a Gov so it will split the
>Tory vote and Labour will get in.

But after resigning, the hardliners are now sidelined, freedom or not,
and May will make the soft Brexit deal that she wanted. I'm not sure
how that's a good thing from your perspective.

==

That is bloody awful from my perspective. As for Boris, the polls are going
up fast in his favour. So, I guess they know what they are doing

If we have a soft Brexit we won't be able to make our own laws, choose who
comes here, we will have to live under the ECJ, and still have to pay
£billions to keep that mob in luxury.

They can speak out now, which they couldn't as Ministers. Boris (who isn't
my first choice) is now the favourite to be the next PM. At least he would
be better than the rubbish we have now!

On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 08:36:04 +0100, "Ophelia" >
wrote:

>"Druce" wrote in message ...
>
>On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 13:58:38 +0100, "Ophelia" >
>wrote:
>
>>"Druce" wrote in message
>>news >>
>>On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 12:25:02 +0100, "Ophelia" >
>>wrote:
>>
>>They resigned rather than let Theresa the Appeaser get away with her fudge.
>>(and they are not the only ones) She is a damned disaster. It gives them
>>freedom they wouldn't have if they still had to account to her. If she
>>gets her way, the Tories will be out of power for a generation and they
>>know
>>it. Well, it will give UKIP a second go. Many Tories went to UKIP for the
>>referendum and when we got it, they went back to the Tories. Mess eh?
>>
>>Problem is, UKIP won't get enough votes to form a Gov so it will split the
>>Tory vote and Labour will get in.
>
>But after resigning, the hardliners are now sidelined, freedom or not,
>and May will make the soft Brexit deal that she wanted. I'm not sure
>how that's a good thing from your perspective.
>
>==
>
>That is bloody awful from my perspective. As for Boris, the polls are going
>up fast in his favour. So, I guess they know what they are doing
>
>If we have a soft Brexit we won't be able to make our own laws, choose who
>comes here, we will have to live under the ECJ, and still have to pay
>£billions to keep that mob in luxury.
>
>They can speak out now, which they couldn't as Ministers. Boris (who isn't
>my first choice) is now the favourite to be the next PM. At least he would
>be better than the rubbish we have now!

So then they have to topple May before the Brexit deal is made,
otherwise she gets her soft deal. I don't know it that's possible and
what the timelines are for May's reign and the Brexit deal.

"Druce" wrote in message ...

On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 08:36:04 +0100, "Ophelia" >
wrote:

>"Druce" wrote in message
.. .
>
>On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 13:58:38 +0100, "Ophelia" >
>wrote:
>
>>"Druce" wrote in message
>>news >>
>>On Wed, 15 Aug 2018 12:25:02 +0100, "Ophelia" >
>>wrote:
>>
>>They resigned rather than let Theresa the Appeaser get away with her
>>fudge.
>>(and they are not the only ones) She is a damned disaster. It gives them
>>freedom they wouldn't have if they still had to account to her. If she
>>gets her way, the Tories will be out of power for a generation and they
>>know
>>it. Well, it will give UKIP a second go. Many Tories went to UKIP for
>>the
>>referendum and when we got it, they went back to the Tories. Mess eh?
>>
>>Problem is, UKIP won't get enough votes to form a Gov so it will split the
>>Tory vote and Labour will get in.
>
>But after resigning, the hardliners are now sidelined, freedom or not,
>and May will make the soft Brexit deal that she wanted. I'm not sure
>how that's a good thing from your perspective.
>
>==
>
>That is bloody awful from my perspective. As for Boris, the polls are
>going
>up fast in his favour. So, I guess they know what they are doing
>
>If we have a soft Brexit we won't be able to make our own laws, choose who
>comes here, we will have to live under the ECJ, and still have to pay
>£billions to keep that mob in luxury.
>
>They can speak out now, which they couldn't as Ministers. Boris (who isn't
>my first choice) is now the favourite to be the next PM. At least he would
>be better than the rubbish we have now!

So then they have to topple May before the Brexit deal is made,
otherwise she gets her soft deal. I don't know it that's possible and
what the timelines are for May's reign and the Brexit deal.

==

Her reign will actually end on the 5 May 2022 under the Fixed-term
Parliaments Act 2011, unless she is booted out.

What is happening now is to do with a 'vote of no confidence' If enough
mp's send in some kind of letter she could be out! Problem is the number of
remoaners in gov. who will back her. I don't know why we bother to have
elections when some mp's decide they don't like the results and try to stop
them. I only hope they are acting on the preferences of their constituents
or they will be out on their bums at the next election.

I suppose they get their ideas from the EU who keep holding elections until
they get the right results. They are trying to do that here now.

On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 09:48:16 +0100, "Ophelia" >
wrote:

>
>
>"Druce" wrote in message ...
>
>On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 08:36:04 +0100, "Ophelia" >
>wrote:
>
>>That is bloody awful from my perspective. As for Boris, the polls are
>>going
>>up fast in his favour. So, I guess they know what they are doing
>>
>>If we have a soft Brexit we won't be able to make our own laws, choose who
>>comes here, we will have to live under the ECJ, and still have to pay
>>£billions to keep that mob in luxury.
>>
>>They can speak out now, which they couldn't as Ministers. Boris (who isn't
>>my first choice) is now the favourite to be the next PM. At least he would
>>be better than the rubbish we have now!
>
>So then they have to topple May before the Brexit deal is made,
>otherwise she gets her soft deal. I don't know it that's possible and
>what the timelines are for May's reign and the Brexit deal.
>
>==
>
>Her reign will actually end on the 5 May 2022 under the Fixed-term
>Parliaments Act 2011, unless she is booted out.
>
>What is happening now is to do with a 'vote of no confidence' If enough
>mp's send in some kind of letter she could be out! Problem is the number of
>remoaners in gov. who will back her. I don't know why we bother to have
>elections when some mp's decide they don't like the results and try to stop
>them. I only hope they are acting on the preferences of their constituents
>or they will be out on their bums at the next election.
>
>I suppose they get their ideas from the EU who keep holding elections until
>they get the right results. They are trying to do that here now.

Isn't there also something to be gained from a soft Brexit? Better
access to the internal EU market or something like that? May cs must
have their reasons. I don't know much about this. It's not a hot item
in NL or AU, as you can imagine.

"Druce" wrote in message ...

On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 09:48:16 +0100, "Ophelia" >
wrote:

>
>
>"Druce" wrote in message
.. .
>
>On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 08:36:04 +0100, "Ophelia" >
>wrote:
>
>>That is bloody awful from my perspective. As for Boris, the polls are
>>going
>>up fast in his favour. So, I guess they know what they are doing
>>
>>If we have a soft Brexit we won't be able to make our own laws, choose who
>>comes here, we will have to live under the ECJ, and still have to pay
>>£billions to keep that mob in luxury.
>>
>>They can speak out now, which they couldn't as Ministers. Boris (who
>>isn't
>>my first choice) is now the favourite to be the next PM. At least he
>>would
>>be better than the rubbish we have now!
>
>So then they have to topple May before the Brexit deal is made,
>otherwise she gets her soft deal. I don't know it that's possible and
>what the timelines are for May's reign and the Brexit deal.
>
>==
>
>Her reign will actually end on the 5 May 2022 under the Fixed-term
>Parliaments Act 2011, unless she is booted out.
>
>What is happening now is to do with a 'vote of no confidence' If enough
>mp's send in some kind of letter she could be out! Problem is the number of
>remoaners in gov. who will back her. I don't know why we bother to have
>elections when some mp's decide they don't like the results and try to stop
>them. I only hope they are acting on the preferences of their constituents
>or they will be out on their bums at the next election.
>
>I suppose they get their ideas from the EU who keep holding elections until
>they get the right results. They are trying to do that here now.

Isn't there also something to be gained from a soft Brexit? Better
access to the internal EU market or something like that? May cs must
have their reasons. I don't know much about this. It's not a hot item
in NL or AU, as you can imagine.
==

Believe me, they need us far more then we need them. They sell HUGELY FAR
MORE stuff to us!

They just play their game of being The Boss and insist we do what They want.
Well we people are sick of it. We want our sovereignty back!

On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 10:42:31 +0100, "Ophelia" >
wrote:

>
>
>"Druce" wrote in message ...
>
>On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 09:48:16 +0100, "Ophelia" >
>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>"Druce" wrote in message
. ..
>>
>>On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 08:36:04 +0100, "Ophelia" >
>>wrote:
>>
>>>That is bloody awful from my perspective. As for Boris, the polls are
>>>going
>>>up fast in his favour. So, I guess they know what they are doing
>>>
>>>If we have a soft Brexit we won't be able to make our own laws, choose who
>>>comes here, we will have to live under the ECJ, and still have to pay
>>>£billions to keep that mob in luxury.
>>>
>>>They can speak out now, which they couldn't as Ministers. Boris (who
>>>isn't
>>>my first choice) is now the favourite to be the next PM. At least he
>>>would
>>>be better than the rubbish we have now!
>>
>>So then they have to topple May before the Brexit deal is made,
>>otherwise she gets her soft deal. I don't know it that's possible and
>>what the timelines are for May's reign and the Brexit deal.
>>
>>==
>>
>>Her reign will actually end on the 5 May 2022 under the Fixed-term
>>Parliaments Act 2011, unless she is booted out.
>>
>>What is happening now is to do with a 'vote of no confidence' If enough
>>mp's send in some kind of letter she could be out! Problem is the number of
>>remoaners in gov. who will back her. I don't know why we bother to have
>>elections when some mp's decide they don't like the results and try to stop
>>them. I only hope they are acting on the preferences of their constituents
>>or they will be out on their bums at the next election.
>>
>>I suppose they get their ideas from the EU who keep holding elections until
>>they get the right results. They are trying to do that here now.
>
>Isn't there also something to be gained from a soft Brexit? Better
>access to the internal EU market or something like that? May cs must
>have their reasons. I don't know much about this. It's not a hot item
>in NL or AU, as you can imagine.
>==
>
>Believe me, they need us far more then we need them. They sell HUGELY FAR
>MORE stuff to us!

I doubt that, considering the numbers of people in UK vs EU.

>They just play their game of being The Boss and insist we do what They want.
>Well we people are sick of it. We want our sovereignty back!

Don't recent polls say most UK people want to stay in the EU now? That
it was just a protest vote?

"Druce" wrote in message ...

On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 10:42:31 +0100, "Ophelia" >
wrote:

>
>
>"Druce" wrote in message
.. .
>
>On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 09:48:16 +0100, "Ophelia" >
>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>"Druce" wrote in message
. ..
>>
>>On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 08:36:04 +0100, "Ophelia" >
>>wrote:
>>
>>>That is bloody awful from my perspective. As for Boris, the polls are
>>>going
>>>up fast in his favour. So, I guess they know what they are doing
>>>
>>>If we have a soft Brexit we won't be able to make our own laws, choose
>>>who
>>>comes here, we will have to live under the ECJ, and still have to pay
>>>£billions to keep that mob in luxury.
>>>
>>>They can speak out now, which they couldn't as Ministers. Boris (who
>>>isn't
>>>my first choice) is now the favourite to be the next PM. At least he
>>>would
>>>be better than the rubbish we have now!
>>
>>So then they have to topple May before the Brexit deal is made,
>>otherwise she gets her soft deal. I don't know it that's possible and
>>what the timelines are for May's reign and the Brexit deal.
>>
>>==
>>
>>Her reign will actually end on the 5 May 2022 under the Fixed-term
>>Parliaments Act 2011, unless she is booted out.
>>
>>What is happening now is to do with a 'vote of no confidence' If enough
>>mp's send in some kind of letter she could be out! Problem is the number
>>of
>>remoaners in gov. who will back her. I don't know why we bother to have
>>elections when some mp's decide they don't like the results and try to
>>stop
>>them. I only hope they are acting on the preferences of their constituents
>>or they will be out on their bums at the next election.
>>
>>I suppose they get their ideas from the EU who keep holding elections
>>until
>>they get the right results. They are trying to do that here now.
>
>Isn't there also something to be gained from a soft Brexit? Better
>access to the internal EU market or something like that? May cs must
>have their reasons. I don't know much about this. It's not a hot item
>in NL or AU, as you can imagine.
>==
>
>Believe me, they need us far more then we need them. They sell HUGELY FAR
>MORE stuff to us!

I doubt that, considering the numbers of people in UK vs EU.

>They just play their game of being The Boss and insist we do what They
>want.
>Well we people are sick of it. We want our sovereignty back!

Don't recent polls say most UK people want to stay in the EU now? That
it was just a protest vote?

==

You can doubt all you want but you need to check it out before you start
deriding what I say!

As for polls ... how many did they ask? Was it the millions who actually
voted?

On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 12:22:13 +0100, "Ophelia" >
wrote:

>
>
>"Druce" wrote in message ...
>
>On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 10:42:31 +0100, "Ophelia" >
>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>"Druce" wrote in message
. ..
>>
>>On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 09:48:16 +0100, "Ophelia" >
>>wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>"Druce" wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 08:36:04 +0100, "Ophelia" >
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>That is bloody awful from my perspective. As for Boris, the polls are
>>>>going
>>>>up fast in his favour. So, I guess they know what they are doing
>>>>
>>>>If we have a soft Brexit we won't be able to make our own laws, choose
>>>>who
>>>>comes here, we will have to live under the ECJ, and still have to pay
>>>>£billions to keep that mob in luxury.
>>>>
>>>>They can speak out now, which they couldn't as Ministers. Boris (who
>>>>isn't
>>>>my first choice) is now the favourite to be the next PM. At least he
>>>>would
>>>>be better than the rubbish we have now!
>>>
>>>So then they have to topple May before the Brexit deal is made,
>>>otherwise she gets her soft deal. I don't know it that's possible and
>>>what the timelines are for May's reign and the Brexit deal.
>>>
>>>==
>>>
>>>Her reign will actually end on the 5 May 2022 under the Fixed-term
>>>Parliaments Act 2011, unless she is booted out.
>>>
>>>What is happening now is to do with a 'vote of no confidence' If enough
>>>mp's send in some kind of letter she could be out! Problem is the number
>>>of
>>>remoaners in gov. who will back her. I don't know why we bother to have
>>>elections when some mp's decide they don't like the results and try to
>>>stop
>>>them. I only hope they are acting on the preferences of their constituents
>>>or they will be out on their bums at the next election.
>>>
>>>I suppose they get their ideas from the EU who keep holding elections
>>>until
>>>they get the right results. They are trying to do that here now.
>>
>>Isn't there also something to be gained from a soft Brexit? Better
>>access to the internal EU market or something like that? May cs must
>>have their reasons. I don't know much about this. It's not a hot item
>>in NL or AU, as you can imagine.
>>==
>>
>>Believe me, they need us far more then we need them. They sell HUGELY FAR
>>MORE stuff to us!
>
>I doubt that, considering the numbers of people in UK vs EU.
>
>>They just play their game of being The Boss and insist we do what They
>>want.
>>Well we people are sick of it. We want our sovereignty back!
>
>Don't recent polls say most UK people want to stay in the EU now? That
>it was just a protest vote?
>
>==
>
>You can doubt all you want but you need to check it out before you start
>deriding what I say!

I'm not deriding what you say, but Germany alone is a bigger economy
than the UK, let alone the entire EU.

>As for polls ... how many did they ask? Was it the millions who actually
>voted?

I don't know the details. I heard this on Australian TV.

"Druce" wrote in message ...

On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 12:22:13 +0100, "Ophelia" >
wrote:

>
>
>"Druce" wrote in message
.. .
>
>On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 10:42:31 +0100, "Ophelia" >
>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>"Druce" wrote in message
. ..
>>
>>On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 09:48:16 +0100, "Ophelia" >
>>wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>"Druce" wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 08:36:04 +0100, "Ophelia" >
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>That is bloody awful from my perspective. As for Boris, the polls are
>>>>going
>>>>up fast in his favour. So, I guess they know what they are doing
>>>>
>>>>If we have a soft Brexit we won't be able to make our own laws, choose
>>>>who
>>>>comes here, we will have to live under the ECJ, and still have to pay
>>>>£billions to keep that mob in luxury.
>>>>
>>>>They can speak out now, which they couldn't as Ministers. Boris (who
>>>>isn't
>>>>my first choice) is now the favourite to be the next PM. At least he
>>>>would
>>>>be better than the rubbish we have now!
>>>
>>>So then they have to topple May before the Brexit deal is made,
>>>otherwise she gets her soft deal. I don't know it that's possible and
>>>what the timelines are for May's reign and the Brexit deal.
>>>
>>>==
>>>
>>>Her reign will actually end on the 5 May 2022 under the Fixed-term
>>>Parliaments Act 2011, unless she is booted out.
>>>
>>>What is happening now is to do with a 'vote of no confidence' If enough
>>>mp's send in some kind of letter she could be out! Problem is the number
>>>of
>>>remoaners in gov. who will back her. I don't know why we bother to have
>>>elections when some mp's decide they don't like the results and try to
>>>stop
>>>them. I only hope they are acting on the preferences of their
>>>constituents
>>>or they will be out on their bums at the next election.
>>>
>>>I suppose they get their ideas from the EU who keep holding elections
>>>until
>>>they get the right results. They are trying to do that here now.
>>
>>Isn't there also something to be gained from a soft Brexit? Better
>>access to the internal EU market or something like that? May cs must
>>have their reasons. I don't know much about this. It's not a hot item
>>in NL or AU, as you can imagine.
>>==
>>
>>Believe me, they need us far more then we need them. They sell HUGELY
>>FAR
>>MORE stuff to us!
>
>I doubt that, considering the numbers of people in UK vs EU.
>
>>They just play their game of being The Boss and insist we do what They
>>want.
>>Well we people are sick of it. We want our sovereignty back!
>
>Don't recent polls say most UK people want to stay in the EU now? That
>it was just a protest vote?
>
>==
>
>You can doubt all you want but you need to check it out before you start
>deriding what I say!

I'm not deriding what you say, but Germany alone is a bigger economy
than the UK, let alone the entire EU.

>As for polls ... how many did they ask? Was it the millions who actually
>voted?

I don't know the details. I heard this on Australian TV.

==

No I don't expect they gave those. We keep hearing all the time about polls
but when you go into it, the numbers are minute in comparison the the
Election, as you would expect.

As for money, do you actually know how much we shovel to the EU every year.
We can make much better use of it here.

Anyway. I am done with this. Look online if you want to learn.

"Druce" > wrote in message

> I don't know the details. I heard this on Australian TV.


Speaking of Australia, they sent firefighters to help with the fires in CA,
so a big thank you to them, also New Zealand.

Cheri

On 8/16/2018 6:26 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>
>
> "Druce" wrote in message ...
>
> On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 12:22:13 +0100, "Ophelia" >
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> "Druce" wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>> On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 10:42:31 +0100, "Ophelia" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Druce" wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>
>>> On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 09:48:16 +0100, "Ophelia" >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Druce" wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 08:36:04 +0100, "Ophelia" >
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> That is bloody awful from my perspective. As for Boris, the polls are
>>>>> going
>>>>> up fast in his favour. So, I guess they know what they are doing
>>>>>
>>>>> If we have a soft Brexit we won't be able to make our own laws, choose
>>>>> who
>>>>> comes here, we will have to live under the ECJ, and still have to pay
>>>>> £billions to keep that mob in luxury.
>>>>>
>>>>> They can speak out now, which they couldn't as Ministers. Boris (who
>>>>> isn't
>>>>> my first choice) is now the favourite to be the next PM. At least he
>>>>> would
>>>>> be better than the rubbish we have now!
>>>>
>>>> So then they have to topple May before the Brexit deal is made,
>>>> otherwise she gets her soft deal. I don't know it that's possible and
>>>> what the timelines are for May's reign and the Brexit deal.
>>>>
>>>> ==
>>>>
>>>> Her reign will actually end on the 5 May 2022 under the Fixed-term
>>>> Parliaments Act 2011, unless she is booted out.
>>>>
>>>> What is happening now is to do with a 'vote of no confidence' If enough
>>>> mp's send in some kind of letter she could be out! Problem is the number
>>>> of
>>>> remoaners in gov. who will back her. I don't know why we bother to have
>>>> elections when some mp's decide they don't like the results and try to
>>>> stop
>>>> them. I only hope they are acting on the preferences of their
>>>> constituents
>>>> or they will be out on their bums at the next election.
>>>>
>>>> I suppose they get their ideas from the EU who keep holding elections
>>>> until
>>>> they get the right results. They are trying to do that here now.
>>>
>>> Isn't there also something to be gained from a soft Brexit? Better
>>> access to the internal EU market or something like that? May cs must
>>> have their reasons. I don't know much about this. It's not a hot item
>>> in NL or AU, as you can imagine.
>>> ==
>>>
>>> Believe me, they need us far more then we need them. They sell HUGELY
>>> FAR
>>> MORE stuff to us!
>>
>> I doubt that, considering the numbers of people in UK vs EU.
>>
>>> They just play their game of being The Boss and insist we do what They
>>> want.
>>> Well we people are sick of it. We want our sovereignty back!
>>
>> Don't recent polls say most UK people want to stay in the EU now? That
>> it was just a protest vote?
>>
>> ==
>>
>> You can doubt all you want but you need to check it out before you start
>> deriding what I say!
>
> I'm not deriding what you say, but Germany alone is a bigger economy
> than the UK, let alone the entire EU.
>
>> As for polls ... how many did they ask? Was it the millions who actually
>> voted?
>
> I don't know the details. I heard this on Australian TV.
>
> ==
>
> No I don't expect they gave those. We keep hearing all the time about polls
> but when you go into it, the numbers are minute in comparison the the
> Election, as you would expect.

And you always have to see what the actual questions were. "Do you
prefer to stay in the EU, or face drastically higher taxes and
unemployment rates?" Huh?

"Taxed and Spent" wrote in message news
On 8/16/2018 6:26 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>
>
> "Druce" wrote in message
> ...
>
> On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 12:22:13 +0100, "Ophelia" >
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> "Druce" wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>> On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 10:42:31 +0100, "Ophelia" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Druce" wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>
>>> On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 09:48:16 +0100, "Ophelia" >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Druce" wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 08:36:04 +0100, "Ophelia" >
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> That is bloody awful from my perspective. As for Boris, the polls are
>>>>> going
>>>>> up fast in his favour. So, I guess they know what they are doing
>>>>>
>>>>> If we have a soft Brexit we won't be able to make our own laws, choose
>>>>> who
>>>>> comes here, we will have to live under the ECJ, and still have to pay
>>>>> £billions to keep that mob in luxury.
>>>>>
>>>>> They can speak out now, which they couldn't as Ministers. Boris (who
>>>>> isn't
>>>>> my first choice) is now the favourite to be the next PM. At least he
>>>>> would
>>>>> be better than the rubbish we have now!
>>>>
>>>> So then they have to topple May before the Brexit deal is made,
>>>> otherwise she gets her soft deal. I don't know it that's possible and
>>>> what the timelines are for May's reign and the Brexit deal.
>>>>
>>>> ==
>>>>
>>>> Her reign will actually end on the 5 May 2022 under the Fixed-term
>>>> Parliaments Act 2011, unless she is booted out.
>>>>
>>>> What is happening now is to do with a 'vote of no confidence' If
>>>> enough
>>>> mp's send in some kind of letter she could be out! Problem is the
>>>> number
>>>> of
>>>> remoaners in gov. who will back her. I don't know why we bother to
>>>> have
>>>> elections when some mp's decide they don't like the results and try to
>>>> stop
>>>> them. I only hope they are acting on the preferences of their
>>>> constituents
>>>> or they will be out on their bums at the next election.
>>>>
>>>> I suppose they get their ideas from the EU who keep holding elections
>>>> until
>>>> they get the right results. They are trying to do that here now.
>>>
>>> Isn't there also something to be gained from a soft Brexit? Better
>>> access to the internal EU market or something like that? May cs must
>>> have their reasons. I don't know much about this. It's not a hot item
>>> in NL or AU, as you can imagine.
>>> ==
>>>
>>> Believe me, they need us far more then we need them. They sell HUGELY
>>> FAR
>>> MORE stuff to us!
>>
>> I doubt that, considering the numbers of people in UK vs EU.
>>
>>> They just play their game of being The Boss and insist we do what They
>>> want.
>>> Well we people are sick of it. We want our sovereignty back!
>>
>> Don't recent polls say most UK people want to stay in the EU now? That
>> it was just a protest vote?
>>
>> ==
>>
>> You can doubt all you want but you need to check it out before you start
>> deriding what I say!
>
> I'm not deriding what you say, but Germany alone is a bigger economy
> than the UK, let alone the entire EU.
>
>> As for polls ... how many did they ask? Was it the millions who actually
>> voted?
>
> I don't know the details. I heard this on Australian TV.
>
> ==
>
> No I don't expect they gave those. We keep hearing all the time about
> polls
> but when you go into it, the numbers are minute in comparison the the
> Election, as you would expect.

And you always have to see what the actual questions were. "Do you
prefer to stay in the EU, or face drastically higher taxes and
unemployment rates?" Huh?

===

lol I haven't seen that) I think we might be a wee bit better off when
we are no long paying £billions to keep that commission in absolute luxury.
The
they haven't had their books audited successfully for many years btw and
have no regrets or explanations))

On 8/16/2018 10:46 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>
>
> "Taxed and Spent" wrote in message news >
> On 8/16/2018 6:26 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>>
>>
>> "Druce" wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>> On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 12:22:13 +0100, "Ophelia" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Druce" wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>
>>> On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 10:42:31 +0100, "Ophelia" >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Druce" wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 09:48:16 +0100, "Ophelia" >
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Druce" wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 08:36:04 +0100, "Ophelia" >
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> That is bloody awful from my perspective. As for Boris, the polls are
>>>>>> going
>>>>>> up fast in his favour. So, I guess they know what they are doing
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If we have a soft Brexit we won't be able to make our own laws, choose
>>>>>> who
>>>>>> comes here, we will have to live under the ECJ, and still have to pay
>>>>>> £billions to keep that mob in luxury.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They can speak out now, which they couldn't as Ministers. Boris (who
>>>>>> isn't
>>>>>> my first choice) is now the favourite to be the next PM. At least he
>>>>>> would
>>>>>> be better than the rubbish we have now!
>>>>>
>>>>> So then they have to topple May before the Brexit deal is made,
>>>>> otherwise she gets her soft deal. I don't know it that's possible and
>>>>> what the timelines are for May's reign and the Brexit deal.
>>>>>
>>>>> ==
>>>>>
>>>>> Her reign will actually end on the 5 May 2022 under the Fixed-term
>>>>> Parliaments Act 2011, unless she is booted out.
>>>>>
>>>>> What is happening now is to do with a 'vote of no confidence' If
>>>>> enough
>>>>> mp's send in some kind of letter she could be out! Problem is the
>>>>> number
>>>>> of
>>>>> remoaners in gov. who will back her. I don't know why we bother to
>>>>> have
>>>>> elections when some mp's decide they don't like the results and try to
>>>>> stop
>>>>> them. I only hope they are acting on the preferences of their
>>>>> constituents
>>>>> or they will be out on their bums at the next election.
>>>>>
>>>>> I suppose they get their ideas from the EU who keep holding elections
>>>>> until
>>>>> they get the right results. They are trying to do that here now.
>>>>
>>>> Isn't there also something to be gained from a soft Brexit? Better
>>>> access to the internal EU market or something like that? May cs must
>>>> have their reasons. I don't know much about this. It's not a hot item
>>>> in NL or AU, as you can imagine.
>>>> ==
>>>>
>>>> Believe me, they need us far more then we need them. They sell HUGELY
>>>> FAR
>>>> MORE stuff to us!
>>>
>>> I doubt that, considering the numbers of people in UK vs EU.
>>>
>>>> They just play their game of being The Boss and insist we do what They
>>>> want.
>>>> Well we people are sick of it. We want our sovereignty back!
>>>
>>> Don't recent polls say most UK people want to stay in the EU now? That
>>> it was just a protest vote?
>>>
>>> ==
>>>
>>> You can doubt all you want but you need to check it out before you start
>>> deriding what I say!
>>
>> I'm not deriding what you say, but Germany alone is a bigger economy
>> than the UK, let alone the entire EU.
>>
>>> As for polls ... how many did they ask? Was it the millions who actually
>>> voted?
>>
>> I don't know the details. I heard this on Australian TV.
>>
>> ==
>>
>> No I don't expect they gave those. We keep hearing all the time about
>> polls
>> but when you go into it, the numbers are minute in comparison the the
>> Election, as you would expect.
>
> And you always have to see what the actual questions were. "Do you
> prefer to stay in the EU, or face drastically higher taxes and
> unemployment rates?" Huh?
>
> ===
>
> lol I haven't seen that) I think we might be a wee bit better off when
> we are no long paying £billions to keep that commission in absolute luxury.
> The
> they haven't had their books audited successfully for many years btw and
> have no regrets or explanations))
>
>


Hey, if it is good enough for the U.N., . . .

"Taxed and Spent" wrote in message news
On 8/16/2018 10:46 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>
>
> "Taxed and Spent" wrote in message news >
> On 8/16/2018 6:26 AM, Ophelia wrote:
>>
>>
>> "Druce" wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>> On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 12:22:13 +0100, "Ophelia" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Druce" wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>
>>> On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 10:42:31 +0100, "Ophelia" >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Druce" wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 09:48:16 +0100, "Ophelia" >
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Druce" wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 08:36:04 +0100, "Ophelia" >
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> That is bloody awful from my perspective. As for Boris, the polls
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> going
>>>>>> up fast in his favour. So, I guess they know what they are doing
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If we have a soft Brexit we won't be able to make our own laws,
>>>>>> choose
>>>>>> who
>>>>>> comes here, we will have to live under the ECJ, and still have to pay
>>>>>> £billions to keep that mob in luxury.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They can speak out now, which they couldn't as Ministers. Boris (who
>>>>>> isn't
>>>>>> my first choice) is now the favourite to be the next PM. At least he
>>>>>> would
>>>>>> be better than the rubbish we have now!
>>>>>
>>>>> So then they have to topple May before the Brexit deal is made,
>>>>> otherwise she gets her soft deal. I don't know it that's possible and
>>>>> what the timelines are for May's reign and the Brexit deal.
>>>>>
>>>>> ==
>>>>>
>>>>> Her reign will actually end on the 5 May 2022 under the Fixed-term
>>>>> Parliaments Act 2011, unless she is booted out.
>>>>>
>>>>> What is happening now is to do with a 'vote of no confidence' If
>>>>> enough
>>>>> mp's send in some kind of letter she could be out! Problem is the
>>>>> number
>>>>> of
>>>>> remoaners in gov. who will back her. I don't know why we bother to
>>>>> have
>>>>> elections when some mp's decide they don't like the results and try to
>>>>> stop
>>>>> them. I only hope they are acting on the preferences of their
>>>>> constituents
>>>>> or they will be out on their bums at the next election.
>>>>>
>>>>> I suppose they get their ideas from the EU who keep holding elections
>>>>> until
>>>>> they get the right results. They are trying to do that here now.
>>>>
>>>> Isn't there also something to be gained from a soft Brexit? Better
>>>> access to the internal EU market or something like that? May cs must
>>>> have their reasons. I don't know much about this. It's not a hot item
>>>> in NL or AU, as you can imagine.
>>>> ==
>>>>
>>>> Believe me, they need us far more then we need them. They sell HUGELY
>>>> FAR
>>>> MORE stuff to us!
>>>
>>> I doubt that, considering the numbers of people in UK vs EU.
>>>
>>>> They just play their game of being The Boss and insist we do what They
>>>> want.
>>>> Well we people are sick of it. We want our sovereignty back!
>>>
>>> Don't recent polls say most UK people want to stay in the EU now? That
>>> it was just a protest vote?
>>>
>>> ==
>>>
>>> You can doubt all you want but you need to check it out before you start
>>> deriding what I say!
>>
>> I'm not deriding what you say, but Germany alone is a bigger economy
>> than the UK, let alone the entire EU.
>>
>>> As for polls ... how many did they ask? Was it the millions who
>>> actually
>>> voted?
>>
>> I don't know the details. I heard this on Australian TV.
>>
>> ==
>>
>> No I don't expect they gave those. We keep hearing all the time about
>> polls
>> but when you go into it, the numbers are minute in comparison the the
>> Election, as you would expect.
>
> And you always have to see what the actual questions were. "Do you
> prefer to stay in the EU, or face drastically higher taxes and
> unemployment rates?" Huh?
>
> ===
>
> lol I haven't seen that) I think we might be a wee bit better off when
> we are no long paying £billions to keep that commission in absolute
> luxury.
> The
> they haven't had their books audited successfully for many years btw and
> have no regrets or explanations))
>
>


Hey, if it is good enough for the U.N., . . .

==

If you are happy, who am I to make comment ... ;p

On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 14:26:23 +0100, "Ophelia" >
wrote:

>
>
>"Druce" wrote in message ...
>
>On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 12:22:13 +0100, "Ophelia" >
>wrote:
>
>>You can doubt all you want but you need to check it out before you start
>>deriding what I say!
>
>I'm not deriding what you say, but Germany alone is a bigger economy
>than the UK, let alone the entire EU.
>
>>As for polls ... how many did they ask? Was it the millions who actually
>>voted?
>
>I don't know the details. I heard this on Australian TV.
>
>==
>
>No I don't expect they gave those. We keep hearing all the time about polls
>but when you go into it, the numbers are minute in comparison the the
>Election, as you would expect.
>
>As for money, do you actually know how much we shovel to the EU every year.
>We can make much better use of it here.
>
>Anyway. I am done with this. Look online if you want to learn.

The Netherlands also pays a lot to the EU. And there's a lot to
improve about the EU. The UK and the Netherlands often agreed about
those things. They were often in the same camp.

In article >, Ophelia
> wrote:

> Believe me, they need us far more then we need them. They sell HUGELY FAR
> MORE stuff to us!
>
> They just play their game of being The Boss and insist we do what They want.
> Well we people are sick of it. We want our sovereignty back!

You sound like the colonists in America did in 1776. Seriously and with
no disrespect. History always repeats itself somewhere. The idea of
some bureaucrat in the Hague telling me what to do is unappealing. I
find it unappealing coming out of Washington.

[ObFood] Weenies, Polish sausage, Nathan's sauerkraut, two different
kinds of coarsely sliced apples and celery seed baked low for a long
time at 225F. It can be eaten anytime after four hours. Well...I'd stop
at ten hours. Probably.

leo

On Thu, 16 Aug 2018 18:57:48 -0700, Leonard Blaisdell
> wrote:

>In article >, Ophelia
> wrote:
>
>> Believe me, they need us far more then we need them. They sell HUGELY FAR
>> MORE stuff to us!
>>
>> They just play their game of being The Boss and insist we do what They want.
>> Well we people are sick of it. We want our sovereignty back!
>
>You sound like the colonists in America did in 1776. Seriously and with
>no disrespect. History always repeats itself somewhere. The idea of
>some bureaucrat in the Hague telling me what to do is unappealing. I
>find it unappealing coming out of Washington.

The Hague?

"Leonard Blaisdell" wrote in message
...

In article >, Ophelia
> wrote:

> Believe me, they need us far more then we need them. They sell HUGELY
> FAR
> MORE stuff to us!
>
> They just play their game of being The Boss and insist we do what They
> want.
> Well we people are sick of it. We want our sovereignty back!

You sound like the colonists in America did in 1776. Seriously and with
no disrespect. History always repeats itself somewhere. The idea of
some bureaucrat in the Hague telling me what to do is unappealing. I
find it unappealing coming out of Washington.

[ObFood] Weenies, Polish sausage, Nathan's sauerkraut, two different
kinds of coarsely sliced apples and celery seed baked low for a long
time at 225F. It can be eaten anytime after four hours. Well...I'd stop
at ten hours. Probably.

leo

==

)