"Evelyn" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 4 Jan 2012 19:20:53 -0800, "Julie Bove"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>"W. Baker" > wrote in message
...
>>> Julie Bove > wrote:
>>>
>>> : "BlueBrooke" > wrote in message
>>> : ...
>>> : > On Wed, 4 Jan 2012 09:32:37 -0800, "Cheri" >
>>> : > wrote:
>>> : >
>>> : >>I find it really odd (well perhaps not so odd) that some people
>>> would
>>> take
>>> : >>exception to the "it" when it was obvious what you meant, but even
>>> if
>>> it
>>> : >>wasn't obvious that you meant it that way, I guess the liberal use
>>> of
>>> FOAD
>>> : >>is exempt from a "horrible thing to say to someone?" Shaking my head
>>> at
>>> : >>that
>>> : >>one.
>>> : >>
>>> : >>Cheri
>>> : >
>>> : > I don't find any of this "odd" at all. Robert walked right into the
>>> : > same mine field everyone else has at one point or another, and the
>>> : > response was as expected. And the responses to the responses were
>>> as
>>> : > expected. :-) There's really nothing new here -- except maybe the
>>> : > huge jump to make an insult out of that silly "it" thing. This kind
>>> : > of dust-up happens once a year or so.
>>> : >
>>> : > The only thing I found surprising was the statement that no one
>>> knows
>>> : > Julie -- taken slightly out of context here because, of course, no
>>> one
>>> : > can really "know" anyone -- but I was under the impression that
>>> : > several people in this group had met her? Maybe it was Alan during
>>> : > his travels?
>>>
>>> : I have met no one from this group. I was going to meet Loretta when I
>>> live
>>> : in NY and that never happened.
>>>
>>> : As to Robert, I *still* don't know what it was that he thought was of
>>> : interest to me. I asked several times and instead of anyone pointing
>>> out
>>> : what exactly it was I was supposed to have seen, I was just attacked
>>> again
>>> : and again. And of course Robert remained silent. But as Robert
>>> always
>>> : does, he will come back weeks or months from now and reply and then
>>> stir
>>> : things up again.
>>>
>>> I would think that Robert thought one of 2 things. Either that you
>>> would
>>> be interested in something to do with gastroparesis or that jan's post
>>> about a friend who used lots of pureed foods, partcularly meat, which
>>> people with gastorparesis (as you have often stated) have trouble
>>> digesting might interest you. I don't see why , if solid meat is a
>>> problem that makign soupy pureed meat and vegetables wouldn' always be a
>>> good idea for gastroparesis eve if all foods do not need to be pureed.
>>> You stated that you were ast a uree stage or shomething like that, so
>>> why
>>> would you be interested? Well, those of us without gastroparesis would
>>> have no way of knowing that unless we researched the condition before
>>> posting either an article or a someting about a friend with the problem
>>> adn how she worked with it.
>>
>>The diet that Jan referred to is the stage one diet. I am waaay beyond
>>that. I believe there are four stages of diets. Maybe only three. But
>>for
>>me to be on stage one at this point would be just plain silly!
>>
>>I don't use a puree of anything except for in my meatloaf. And that is
>>not
>>for me. That is because Angela and my husband do not like chunks of
>>vegetables in their meatloaf. And I use baby food squash as a replacement
>>for eggs because I am allergic to eggs.
>>>
>>> Roberet, who lived in a supportive envireonment because of his strokes,
>>> seems to have very spotty internet connection and often posts aboaut
>>> stuff
>>> that hhas long been dropped by the rest of us, but he is nly ust seeing
>>> it
>>> for the first time. i believe that is why he often doesn't answer
>>> immedietly.
>>>
>>> Wendy
>>
>>Okay...
>>
>>Still, it would have been the nice thing to do for someone to have pointed
>>that out to me in the beginning instead of just attacking me and attacking
>>me and attacking me and that was what was done.
>>
>>However, I have now learned that several people here are not nice and I
>>will
>>not expect any nice things out of them.
>
>
> I always believe in using ones killfile. Some people are just not
> helpful.

Yep. I did clean out my killfile recently. Some of these people were in
there. I may well put them back.

On Wed, 4 Jan 2012 19:29:26 -0800, "Julie Bove"
> wrote:

>
>"Evelyn" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On Wed, 4 Jan 2012 19:20:53 -0800, "Julie Bove"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"W. Baker" > wrote in message
...
>>>> Julie Bove > wrote:
>>>>
>>>> : "BlueBrooke" > wrote in message
>>>> : ...
>>>> : > On Wed, 4 Jan 2012 09:32:37 -0800, "Cheri" >
>>>> : > wrote:
>>>> : >
>>>> : >>I find it really odd (well perhaps not so odd) that some people
>>>> would
>>>> take
>>>> : >>exception to the "it" when it was obvious what you meant, but even
>>>> if
>>>> it
>>>> : >>wasn't obvious that you meant it that way, I guess the liberal use
>>>> of
>>>> FOAD
>>>> : >>is exempt from a "horrible thing to say to someone?" Shaking my head
>>>> at
>>>> : >>that
>>>> : >>one.
>>>> : >>
>>>> : >>Cheri
>>>> : >
>>>> : > I don't find any of this "odd" at all. Robert walked right into the
>>>> : > same mine field everyone else has at one point or another, and the
>>>> : > response was as expected. And the responses to the responses were
>>>> as
>>>> : > expected. :-) There's really nothing new here -- except maybe the
>>>> : > huge jump to make an insult out of that silly "it" thing. This kind
>>>> : > of dust-up happens once a year or so.
>>>> : >
>>>> : > The only thing I found surprising was the statement that no one
>>>> knows
>>>> : > Julie -- taken slightly out of context here because, of course, no
>>>> one
>>>> : > can really "know" anyone -- but I was under the impression that
>>>> : > several people in this group had met her? Maybe it was Alan during
>>>> : > his travels?
>>>>
>>>> : I have met no one from this group. I was going to meet Loretta when I
>>>> live
>>>> : in NY and that never happened.
>>>>
>>>> : As to Robert, I *still* don't know what it was that he thought was of
>>>> : interest to me. I asked several times and instead of anyone pointing
>>>> out
>>>> : what exactly it was I was supposed to have seen, I was just attacked
>>>> again
>>>> : and again. And of course Robert remained silent. But as Robert
>>>> always
>>>> : does, he will come back weeks or months from now and reply and then
>>>> stir
>>>> : things up again.
>>>>
>>>> I would think that Robert thought one of 2 things. Either that you
>>>> would
>>>> be interested in something to do with gastroparesis or that jan's post
>>>> about a friend who used lots of pureed foods, partcularly meat, which
>>>> people with gastorparesis (as you have often stated) have trouble
>>>> digesting might interest you. I don't see why , if solid meat is a
>>>> problem that makign soupy pureed meat and vegetables wouldn' always be a
>>>> good idea for gastroparesis eve if all foods do not need to be pureed.
>>>> You stated that you were ast a uree stage or shomething like that, so
>>>> why
>>>> would you be interested? Well, those of us without gastroparesis would
>>>> have no way of knowing that unless we researched the condition before
>>>> posting either an article or a someting about a friend with the problem
>>>> adn how she worked with it.
>>>
>>>The diet that Jan referred to is the stage one diet. I am waaay beyond
>>>that. I believe there are four stages of diets. Maybe only three. But
>>>for
>>>me to be on stage one at this point would be just plain silly!
>>>
>>>I don't use a puree of anything except for in my meatloaf. And that is
>>>not
>>>for me. That is because Angela and my husband do not like chunks of
>>>vegetables in their meatloaf. And I use baby food squash as a replacement
>>>for eggs because I am allergic to eggs.
>>>>
>>>> Roberet, who lived in a supportive envireonment because of his strokes,
>>>> seems to have very spotty internet connection and often posts aboaut
>>>> stuff
>>>> that hhas long been dropped by the rest of us, but he is nly ust seeing
>>>> it
>>>> for the first time. i believe that is why he often doesn't answer
>>>> immedietly.
>>>>
>>>> Wendy
>>>
>>>Okay...
>>>
>>>Still, it would have been the nice thing to do for someone to have pointed
>>>that out to me in the beginning instead of just attacking me and attacking
>>>me and attacking me and that was what was done.
>>>
>>>However, I have now learned that several people here are not nice and I
>>>will
>>>not expect any nice things out of them.
>>
>>
>> I always believe in using ones killfile. Some people are just not
>> helpful.
>
>Yep. I did clean out my killfile recently. Some of these people were in
>there. I may well put them back.


A good plan if you find they are too upsetting to read!

Evelyn

Nick Cramer > wrote:
> "W. Baker" > wrote:
> > Tiger Lily > wrote:
> > : On 1/3/2012 8:59 PM, Ozgirl wrote:
>
> > : the shops that sell the smokers also carry the wood chips, so she
> > : would have an idea of where/whom to go ask
> >
> > : my favs are
> > : hickory
> > : apple
> > : oak scotch (and such) barrels being recycled from the wine factories
> > : and more
> > : grin
>
> > What! You don't use alder wood for your salmon:-)
>
> Can they get alder in Oz? Does smoking it on a piece of birch count?

Whoops! I guess that's done on cedar, not birch. Duhhh!

--
Nick, KI6VAV. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their
families: https://semperfifund.org https://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/
http://www.specialops.org/ http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/ ~Semper Fi~
http://www.woundedwarriors.ca/ http://www.legacy.com.au/ ~Semper Fi~

"Ozgirl" > wrote:
> "Nick Cramer" > wrote in message
> > "W. Baker" > wrote:
> >> Tiger Lily > wrote:
> >> : On 1/3/2012 8:59 PM, Ozgirl wrote:
> >
> >> : the shops that sell the smokers also carry the wood chips, so she
> >> would
> >> : have an idea of where/whom to go ask
> >>
> >> : my favs are
> >> : hickory
> >> : apple
> >> : oak scotch (and such) barrels being recycled from the wine
> >> factories
> >> : and more
> >> : grin
> >
> >> What! You don't use alder wood for your salmon:-)
> >
> > Can they get alder in Oz? Does smoking it on a piece of birch count?
>
> Here is some clue to what might be available here.
> http://www.aussiebbq.info/forum/view...hp?f=19&t=2200

Interesting forum and thread. Thanks, Jan (& ABBQA)!

--
Nick, KI6VAV. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their
families: https://semperfifund.org https://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/
http://www.specialops.org/ http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/ ~Semper Fi~
http://www.woundedwarriors.ca/ http://www.legacy.com.au/ ~Semper Fi~

"Julie Bove" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Evelyn" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Wed, 4 Jan 2012 19:20:53 -0800, "Julie Bove"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"W. Baker" > wrote in message
...
>>>> Julie Bove > wrote:
>>>>
>>>> : "BlueBrooke" > wrote in message
>>>> : ...
>>>> : > On Wed, 4 Jan 2012 09:32:37 -0800, "Cheri"
>>>> >
>>>> : > wrote:
>>>> : >
>>>> : >>I find it really odd (well perhaps not so odd) that some people
>>>> would
>>>> take
>>>> : >>exception to the "it" when it was obvious what you meant, but
>>>> even if
>>>> it
>>>> : >>wasn't obvious that you meant it that way, I guess the liberal
>>>> use of
>>>> FOAD
>>>> : >>is exempt from a "horrible thing to say to someone?" Shaking my
>>>> head
>>>> at
>>>> : >>that
>>>> : >>one.
>>>> : >>
>>>> : >>Cheri
>>>> : >
>>>> : > I don't find any of this "odd" at all. Robert walked right
>>>> into the
>>>> : > same mine field everyone else has at one point or another, and
>>>> the
>>>> : > response was as expected. And the responses to the responses
>>>> were as
>>>> : > expected. :-) There's really nothing new here -- except maybe
>>>> the
>>>> : > huge jump to make an insult out of that silly "it" thing. This
>>>> kind
>>>> : > of dust-up happens once a year or so.
>>>> : >
>>>> : > The only thing I found surprising was the statement that no one
>>>> knows
>>>> : > Julie -- taken slightly out of context here because, of course,
>>>> no one
>>>> : > can really "know" anyone -- but I was under the impression that
>>>> : > several people in this group had met her? Maybe it was Alan
>>>> during
>>>> : > his travels?
>>>>
>>>> : I have met no one from this group. I was going to meet Loretta
>>>> when I
>>>> live
>>>> : in NY and that never happened.
>>>>
>>>> : As to Robert, I *still* don't know what it was that he thought
>>>> was of
>>>> : interest to me. I asked several times and instead of anyone
>>>> pointing
>>>> out
>>>> : what exactly it was I was supposed to have seen, I was just
>>>> attacked
>>>> again
>>>> : and again. And of course Robert remained silent. But as Robert
>>>> always
>>>> : does, he will come back weeks or months from now and reply and
>>>> then stir
>>>> : things up again.
>>>>
>>>> I would think that Robert thought one of 2 things. Either that you
>>>> would
>>>> be interested in something to do with gastroparesis or that jan's
>>>> post
>>>> about a friend who used lots of pureed foods, partcularly meat,
>>>> which
>>>> people with gastorparesis (as you have often stated) have trouble
>>>> digesting might interest you. I don't see why , if solid meat is a
>>>> problem that makign soupy pureed meat and vegetables wouldn' always
>>>> be a
>>>> good idea for gastroparesis eve if all foods do not need to be
>>>> pureed.
>>>> You stated that you were ast a uree stage or shomething like that,
>>>> so why
>>>> would you be interested? Well, those of us without gastroparesis
>>>> would
>>>> have no way of knowing that unless we researched the condition
>>>> before
>>>> posting either an article or a someting about a friend with the
>>>> problem
>>>> adn how she worked with it.
>>>
>>>The diet that Jan referred to is the stage one diet. I am waaay
>>>beyond
>>>that. I believe there are four stages of diets. Maybe only three.
>>>But for
>>>me to be on stage one at this point would be just plain silly!
>>>
>>>I don't use a puree of anything except for in my meatloaf. And that
>>>is not
>>>for me. That is because Angela and my husband do not like chunks of
>>>vegetables in their meatloaf. And I use baby food squash as a
>>>replacement
>>>for eggs because I am allergic to eggs.
>>>>
>>>> Roberet, who lived in a supportive envireonment because of his
>>>> strokes,
>>>> seems to have very spotty internet connection and often posts
>>>> aboaut stuff
>>>> that hhas long been dropped by the rest of us, but he is nly ust
>>>> seeing it
>>>> for the first time. i believe that is why he often doesn't answer
>>>> immedietly.
>>>>
>>>> Wendy
>>>
>>>Okay...
>>>
>>>Still, it would have been the nice thing to do for someone to have
>>>pointed
>>>that out to me in the beginning instead of just attacking me and
>>>attacking
>>>me and attacking me and that was what was done.
>>>
>>>However, I have now learned that several people here are not nice and
>>>I will
>>>not expect any nice things out of them.
>>
>>
>> I always believe in using ones killfile. Some people are just not
>> helpful.
>
> Yep. I did clean out my killfile recently. Some of these people were
> in there. I may well put them back.

I think rather than leave the group you should killfile. Only for your
peace of mind. You obviously enjoy this group or you wouldn't have been
participating for so many years. If any conversations with any of us
cause you problems then it seems a wise choice, but your choice always.
I normally skip over people who annoy me but if they were causing me
grief I would KF.

"W. Baker" > wrote in message
...
> Nick Cramer > wrote:
> : "W. Baker" > wrote:
> : > Tiger Lily > wrote:
> : > : On 1/3/2012 8:59 PM, Ozgirl wrote:
>
> : > : the shops that sell the smokers also carry the wood chips, so
> she would
> : > : have an idea of where/whom to go ask
> : >
> : > : my favs are
> : > : hickory
> : > : apple
> : > : oak scotch (and such) barrels being recycled from the wine
> factories
> : > : and more
> : > : grin
>
> : > What! You don't use alder wood for your salmon:-)
>
> : Can they get alder in Oz? Does smoking it on a piece of birch count?
>
> : --
> : Nick, KI6VAV. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and
> their
>
> Tiger Lily lives pretty far west in Canada, the home of the alder wood
> smoked salmon.
>
> Wendy

Its times like this that I wish Australia had more choice of things in
the culinary dept.
When I was at WW about 38 years ago I was jealous of the different types
of flavourings and variety of diet drinks you guys had in the US We
had TAB (a cola drink by Coke) and Tresca, a lemon diet drink - also by
Coke I think. All these wonderful sugar free desserts were in the recipe
book using berry flavoured diet drinks etc

"Nick Cramer" > wrote in message
...
> Nick Cramer > wrote:
>> "W. Baker" > wrote:
>> > Tiger Lily > wrote:
>> > : On 1/3/2012 8:59 PM, Ozgirl wrote:
>>
>> > : the shops that sell the smokers also carry the wood chips, so she
>> > : would have an idea of where/whom to go ask
>> >
>> > : my favs are
>> > : hickory
>> > : apple
>> > : oak scotch (and such) barrels being recycled from the wine
>> > factories
>> > : and more
>> > : grin
>>
>> > What! You don't use alder wood for your salmon:-)
>>
>> Can they get alder in Oz? Does smoking it on a piece of birch count?
>
> Whoops! I guess that's done on cedar, not birch. Duhhh!

My daughter's partner has western red cedar trees on his 25 acre
property. Would that work?

"Nick Cramer" > wrote in message
...
> "Ozgirl" > wrote:
>> "Nick Cramer" > wrote in message
>> > "W. Baker" > wrote:
>> >> Tiger Lily > wrote:
>> >> : On 1/3/2012 8:59 PM, Ozgirl wrote:
>> >
>> >> : the shops that sell the smokers also carry the wood chips, so
>> >> she
>> >> would
>> >> : have an idea of where/whom to go ask
>> >>
>> >> : my favs are
>> >> : hickory
>> >> : apple
>> >> : oak scotch (and such) barrels being recycled from the wine
>> >> factories
>> >> : and more
>> >> : grin
>> >
>> >> What! You don't use alder wood for your salmon:-)
>> >
>> > Can they get alder in Oz? Does smoking it on a piece of birch
>> > count?
>>
>> Here is some clue to what might be available here.
>> http://www.aussiebbq.info/forum/view...hp?f=19&t=2200
>
> Interesting forum and thread. Thanks, Jan (& ABBQA)!

Did it widen your horizons?

"Ozgirl" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> "Julie Bove" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Evelyn" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> On Wed, 4 Jan 2012 19:20:53 -0800, "Julie Bove"
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>"W. Baker" > wrote in message
...
>>>>> Julie Bove > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> : "BlueBrooke" > wrote in message
>>>>> : ...
>>>>> : > On Wed, 4 Jan 2012 09:32:37 -0800, "Cheri" >
>>>>> : > wrote:
>>>>> : >
>>>>> : >>I find it really odd (well perhaps not so odd) that some people
>>>>> would
>>>>> take
>>>>> : >>exception to the "it" when it was obvious what you meant, but even
>>>>> if
>>>>> it
>>>>> : >>wasn't obvious that you meant it that way, I guess the liberal use
>>>>> of
>>>>> FOAD
>>>>> : >>is exempt from a "horrible thing to say to someone?" Shaking my
>>>>> head
>>>>> at
>>>>> : >>that
>>>>> : >>one.
>>>>> : >>
>>>>> : >>Cheri
>>>>> : >
>>>>> : > I don't find any of this "odd" at all. Robert walked right into
>>>>> the
>>>>> : > same mine field everyone else has at one point or another, and the
>>>>> : > response was as expected. And the responses to the responses were
>>>>> as
>>>>> : > expected. :-) There's really nothing new here -- except maybe
>>>>> the
>>>>> : > huge jump to make an insult out of that silly "it" thing. This
>>>>> kind
>>>>> : > of dust-up happens once a year or so.
>>>>> : >
>>>>> : > The only thing I found surprising was the statement that no one
>>>>> knows
>>>>> : > Julie -- taken slightly out of context here because, of course, no
>>>>> one
>>>>> : > can really "know" anyone -- but I was under the impression that
>>>>> : > several people in this group had met her? Maybe it was Alan
>>>>> during
>>>>> : > his travels?
>>>>>
>>>>> : I have met no one from this group. I was going to meet Loretta when
>>>>> I
>>>>> live
>>>>> : in NY and that never happened.
>>>>>
>>>>> : As to Robert, I *still* don't know what it was that he thought was
>>>>> of
>>>>> : interest to me. I asked several times and instead of anyone
>>>>> pointing
>>>>> out
>>>>> : what exactly it was I was supposed to have seen, I was just attacked
>>>>> again
>>>>> : and again. And of course Robert remained silent. But as Robert
>>>>> always
>>>>> : does, he will come back weeks or months from now and reply and then
>>>>> stir
>>>>> : things up again.
>>>>>
>>>>> I would think that Robert thought one of 2 things. Either that you
>>>>> would
>>>>> be interested in something to do with gastroparesis or that jan's post
>>>>> about a friend who used lots of pureed foods, partcularly meat, which
>>>>> people with gastorparesis (as you have often stated) have trouble
>>>>> digesting might interest you. I don't see why , if solid meat is a
>>>>> problem that makign soupy pureed meat and vegetables wouldn' always be
>>>>> a
>>>>> good idea for gastroparesis eve if all foods do not need to be pureed.
>>>>> You stated that you were ast a uree stage or shomething like that, so
>>>>> why
>>>>> would you be interested? Well, those of us without gastroparesis
>>>>> would
>>>>> have no way of knowing that unless we researched the condition before
>>>>> posting either an article or a someting about a friend with the
>>>>> problem
>>>>> adn how she worked with it.
>>>>
>>>>The diet that Jan referred to is the stage one diet. I am waaay beyond
>>>>that. I believe there are four stages of diets. Maybe only three. But
>>>>for
>>>>me to be on stage one at this point would be just plain silly!
>>>>
>>>>I don't use a puree of anything except for in my meatloaf. And that is
>>>>not
>>>>for me. That is because Angela and my husband do not like chunks of
>>>>vegetables in their meatloaf. And I use baby food squash as a
>>>>replacement
>>>>for eggs because I am allergic to eggs.
>>>>>
>>>>> Roberet, who lived in a supportive envireonment because of his
>>>>> strokes,
>>>>> seems to have very spotty internet connection and often posts aboaut
>>>>> stuff
>>>>> that hhas long been dropped by the rest of us, but he is nly ust
>>>>> seeing it
>>>>> for the first time. i believe that is why he often doesn't answer
>>>>> immedietly.
>>>>>
>>>>> Wendy
>>>>
>>>>Okay...
>>>>
>>>>Still, it would have been the nice thing to do for someone to have
>>>>pointed
>>>>that out to me in the beginning instead of just attacking me and
>>>>attacking
>>>>me and attacking me and that was what was done.
>>>>
>>>>However, I have now learned that several people here are not nice and I
>>>>will
>>>>not expect any nice things out of them.
>>>
>>>
>>> I always believe in using ones killfile. Some people are just not
>>> helpful.
>>
>> Yep. I did clean out my killfile recently. Some of these people were in
>> there. I may well put them back.
>
> I think rather than leave the group you should killfile. Only for your
> peace of mind. You obviously enjoy this group or you wouldn't have been
> participating for so many years. If any conversations with any of us cause
> you problems then it seems a wise choice, but your choice always. I
> normally skip over people who annoy me but if they were causing me grief I
> would KF.

Okay. I will try that. But if I keep seeing the carp quoted, I may just
have to leave.

"Julie Bove" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Ozgirl" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>>
>> "Julie Bove" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Evelyn" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> On Wed, 4 Jan 2012 19:20:53 -0800, "Julie Bove"
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"W. Baker" > wrote in message
...
>>>>>> Julie Bove > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> : "BlueBrooke" > wrote in message
>>>>>> : ...
>>>>>> : > On Wed, 4 Jan 2012 09:32:37 -0800, "Cheri"
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> : > wrote:
>>>>>> : >
>>>>>> : >>I find it really odd (well perhaps not so odd) that some
>>>>>> people would
>>>>>> take
>>>>>> : >>exception to the "it" when it was obvious what you meant, but
>>>>>> even if
>>>>>> it
>>>>>> : >>wasn't obvious that you meant it that way, I guess the
>>>>>> liberal use of
>>>>>> FOAD
>>>>>> : >>is exempt from a "horrible thing to say to someone?" Shaking
>>>>>> my head
>>>>>> at
>>>>>> : >>that
>>>>>> : >>one.
>>>>>> : >>
>>>>>> : >>Cheri
>>>>>> : >
>>>>>> : > I don't find any of this "odd" at all. Robert walked right
>>>>>> into the
>>>>>> : > same mine field everyone else has at one point or another,
>>>>>> and the
>>>>>> : > response was as expected. And the responses to the responses
>>>>>> were as
>>>>>> : > expected. :-) There's really nothing new here -- except
>>>>>> maybe the
>>>>>> : > huge jump to make an insult out of that silly "it" thing.
>>>>>> This kind
>>>>>> : > of dust-up happens once a year or so.
>>>>>> : >
>>>>>> : > The only thing I found surprising was the statement that no
>>>>>> one knows
>>>>>> : > Julie -- taken slightly out of context here because, of
>>>>>> course, no one
>>>>>> : > can really "know" anyone -- but I was under the impression
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> : > several people in this group had met her? Maybe it was Alan
>>>>>> during
>>>>>> : > his travels?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> : I have met no one from this group. I was going to meet Loretta
>>>>>> when I
>>>>>> live
>>>>>> : in NY and that never happened.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> : As to Robert, I *still* don't know what it was that he thought
>>>>>> was of
>>>>>> : interest to me. I asked several times and instead of anyone
>>>>>> pointing
>>>>>> out
>>>>>> : what exactly it was I was supposed to have seen, I was just
>>>>>> attacked
>>>>>> again
>>>>>> : and again. And of course Robert remained silent. But as
>>>>>> Robert always
>>>>>> : does, he will come back weeks or months from now and reply and
>>>>>> then stir
>>>>>> : things up again.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would think that Robert thought one of 2 things. Either that
>>>>>> you would
>>>>>> be interested in something to do with gastroparesis or that jan's
>>>>>> post
>>>>>> about a friend who used lots of pureed foods, partcularly meat,
>>>>>> which
>>>>>> people with gastorparesis (as you have often stated) have trouble
>>>>>> digesting might interest you. I don't see why , if solid meat is
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> problem that makign soupy pureed meat and vegetables wouldn'
>>>>>> always be a
>>>>>> good idea for gastroparesis eve if all foods do not need to be
>>>>>> pureed.
>>>>>> You stated that you were ast a uree stage or shomething like
>>>>>> that, so why
>>>>>> would you be interested? Well, those of us without gastroparesis
>>>>>> would
>>>>>> have no way of knowing that unless we researched the condition
>>>>>> before
>>>>>> posting either an article or a someting about a friend with the
>>>>>> problem
>>>>>> adn how she worked with it.
>>>>>
>>>>>The diet that Jan referred to is the stage one diet. I am waaay
>>>>>beyond
>>>>>that. I believe there are four stages of diets. Maybe only three.
>>>>>But for
>>>>>me to be on stage one at this point would be just plain silly!
>>>>>
>>>>>I don't use a puree of anything except for in my meatloaf. And
>>>>>that is not
>>>>>for me. That is because Angela and my husband do not like chunks
>>>>>of
>>>>>vegetables in their meatloaf. And I use baby food squash as a
>>>>>replacement
>>>>>for eggs because I am allergic to eggs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Roberet, who lived in a supportive envireonment because of his
>>>>>> strokes,
>>>>>> seems to have very spotty internet connection and often posts
>>>>>> aboaut stuff
>>>>>> that hhas long been dropped by the rest of us, but he is nly ust
>>>>>> seeing it
>>>>>> for the first time. i believe that is why he often doesn't
>>>>>> answer
>>>>>> immedietly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wendy
>>>>>
>>>>>Okay...
>>>>>
>>>>>Still, it would have been the nice thing to do for someone to have
>>>>>pointed
>>>>>that out to me in the beginning instead of just attacking me and
>>>>>attacking
>>>>>me and attacking me and that was what was done.
>>>>>
>>>>>However, I have now learned that several people here are not nice
>>>>>and I will
>>>>>not expect any nice things out of them.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I always believe in using ones killfile. Some people are just not
>>>> helpful.
>>>
>>> Yep. I did clean out my killfile recently. Some of these people
>>> were in there. I may well put them back.
>>
>> I think rather than leave the group you should killfile. Only for
>> your peace of mind. You obviously enjoy this group or you wouldn't
>> have been participating for so many years. If any conversations with
>> any of us cause you problems then it seems a wise choice, but your
>> choice always. I normally skip over people who annoy me but if they
>> were causing me grief I would KF.
>
> Okay. I will try that. But if I keep seeing the carp quoted, I may
> just have to leave.

Its not what you see but what you choose to do with it....

Nick Cramer > wrote:
> Nick Cramer > wrote:
> > "W. Baker" > wrote:
> > > Tiger Lily > wrote:
> > > : On 1/3/2012 8:59 PM, Ozgirl wrote:
> >
> > > : the shops that sell the smokers also carry the wood chips, so she
> > > : would have an idea of where/whom to go ask
> > >
> > > : my favs are
> > > : hickory
> > > : apple
> > > : oak scotch (and such) barrels being recycled from the wine
> > > : factories and more
> > > : grin
> >
> > > What! You don't use alder wood for your salmon:-)
> >
> > Can they get alder in Oz? Does smoking it on a piece of birch count?
>
> Whoops! I guess that's done on cedar, not birch. Duhhh!

And . . . alder does grow in Oz!

--
Nick, KI6VAV. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their
families: https://semperfifund.org https://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/
http://www.specialops.org/ http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/ ~Semper Fi~
http://www.woundedwarriors.ca/ http://www.legacy.com.au/ ~Semper Fi~

"Ozgirl" > wrote:
> "Nick Cramer" > wrote in message
> > Nick Cramer > wrote:
> >> "W. Baker" > wrote:
> >> > Tiger Lily > wrote:
> >> > : On 1/3/2012 8:59 PM, Ozgirl wrote:
> >>
> >> > : the shops that sell the smokers also carry the wood chips, so she
> >> > : would have an idea of where/whom to go ask
> >> >
> >> > : my favs are
> >> > : hickory
> >> > : apple
> >> > : oak scotch (and such) barrels being recycled from the wine
> >> > factories
> >> > : and more
> >> > : grin
> >>
> >> > What! You don't use alder wood for your salmon:-)
> >>
> >> Can they get alder in Oz? Does smoking it on a piece of birch count?
> >
> > Whoops! I guess that's done on cedar, not birch. Duhhh!
>
> My daughter's partner has western red cedar trees on his 25 acre
> property. Would that work?

*difino!

--
Nick, KI6VAV. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their
families: https://semperfifund.org https://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/
http://www.specialops.org/ http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/ ~Semper Fi~
http://www.woundedwarriors.ca/ http://www.legacy.com.au/ ~Semper Fi~

"Nick Cramer" > wrote in message
...
> Nick Cramer > wrote:
>> Nick Cramer > wrote:
>> > "W. Baker" > wrote:
>> > > Tiger Lily > wrote:
>> > > : On 1/3/2012 8:59 PM, Ozgirl wrote:
>> >
>> > > : the shops that sell the smokers also carry the wood chips, so
>> > > she
>> > > : would have an idea of where/whom to go ask
>> > >
>> > > : my favs are
>> > > : hickory
>> > > : apple
>> > > : oak scotch (and such) barrels being recycled from the wine
>> > > : factories and more
>> > > : grin
>> >
>> > > What! You don't use alder wood for your salmon:-)
>> >
>> > Can they get alder in Oz? Does smoking it on a piece of birch
>> > count?
>>
>> Whoops! I guess that's done on cedar, not birch. Duhhh!
>
> And . . . alder does grow in Oz!

Hope for us yet!

"Ozgirl" > wrote:
> "Nick Cramer" > wrote in message
> > "Ozgirl" > wrote:
> >> [ . . . . ]
> >> Here is some clue to what might be available here.
> >> http://www.aussiebbq.info/forum/view...hp?f=19&t=2200
> >
> > Interesting forum and thread. Thanks, Jan (& ABBQA)!
>
> Did it widen your horizons?

In general, yes. As far as what I will use to BBQ or smoke, not really.

BTW When in London some years ago, I was given a few staves from an Ardbeg
barrel, to use for smoke. I prefer them as wall hangings!

--
Nick, KI6VAV. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their
families: https://semperfifund.org https://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/
http://www.specialops.org/ http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/ ~Semper Fi~
http://www.woundedwarriors.ca/ http://www.legacy.com.au/ ~Semper Fi~

On 1/4/2012 5:45 PM, Alice Faber wrote:
> True. I spent a lovely afternoon with Alan, his wife, Jenny the Bean,
> and someone else whose name I forget (not from ASD) on one of his trips.

I'm so jealous Alice!!!!

Jenny the Bean aka Phlaunt is an amazing lady

Alan has been a pillar on ASD when it got thin on the ground

and, we meet diabetics from other locations as well

man, I wish i had been at that meeting just to listen to the conversation!

kate

On 1/4/2012 5:55 PM, Nick Cramer wrote:
> "W. > wrote:
>> Tiger > wrote:
>> : On 1/3/2012 8:59 PM, Ozgirl wrote:
>
>> : the shops that sell the smokers also carry the wood chips, so she would
>> : have an idea of where/whom to go ask
>>
>> : my favs are
>> : hickory
>> : apple
>> : oak scotch (and such) barrels being recycled from the wine factories
>> : and more
>> : grin
>
>> What! You don't use alder wood for your salmon:-)
>
> Can they get alder in Oz? Does smoking it on a piece of birch count?
>

birch is close................ kinda........ ya, i would try birch, but
it wouldn't be my first choice

interesting, when alder was mentioned i envisioned the birch bark look

kate

On 1/4/2012 8:26 PM, W. Baker wrote:
> Tiger Lily lives pretty far west in Canada, the home of the alder wood
> smoked salmon.
>
> Wendy

oh damn

i have some research to do now! lol

never used alder! LOL

kate

On 1/4/2012 6:01 PM, Ozgirl wrote:
>> i don't count the holes in the ceiling tiles, just the # of tiles
>
> I only count when I am in a waiting room usually. Its not a compulsion,
> it just relieves boredom.

snap!

i'm bored, what the heck can i do? stare at strangers? listen to
everyone's conversations? watch the staff work? hide in the bathroom?
(none acceptable in my upbringing)

oh well, count tiles, windows, chairs, floor tiles.......
magazines......... damn, i'm running out of things to count what next,
when WILL i be seen! ??? LOL

kate

On 1/4/2012 7:03 PM, Ozgirl wrote:
>
>
> "Tiger Lily" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> 99% of my interaction with her over the past decade has been in the
>> interest of SUPPORT, but Julie has made it very clear she only wants
>> to vent
>
> There lies the clue "she only wants to vent".

Dust in the Wind

or is that ****ing into the wind???

so, ignore is the option you are supporting too?

kate

On 1/4/2012 6:25 PM, Evelyn wrote:
> We have all been called on our crap from time to time. Surely I have,
> and probably you too. I have no anger or dislike for Julie and if
> someone has been unfair to her in this, I don't want to join in or
> help that. Whatever I have said has been meant constructively, and I
> thought I was clear enough on that point. Seems there has been a
> little more going on here than I originally thought.
>
> Evelyn

Evelyn, i started out trying to be helpful. Your comments were
CONstructive criticisms, not the vile negative i'm ok, you aren't
DEStructive criticisms. Problem is, NO COMMENT is the best reponse (as
i have discovered too late)

kate

"BlueBrooke" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 5 Jan 2012 10:13:54 +1000, "Ozgirl"

>>Why do you find it necessary to belittle another poster?
>
> Who, exactly, am I making fun of? Alan? You? Oh, wait, I know --
> MYSELF!

? You laughed at Susan's derogatory comment about betting money against
Alan making that meeting happen - i.e. a meeting with Julie. Why do you
find that lol worthy?

"Tiger Lily" > wrote in message
...
> On 1/4/2012 6:01 PM, Ozgirl wrote:
>>> i don't count the holes in the ceiling tiles, just the # of tiles
>>
>> I only count when I am in a waiting room usually. Its not a
>> compulsion,
>> it just relieves boredom.
>
> snap!
>
> i'm bored, what the heck can i do? stare at strangers? listen to
> everyone's conversations? watch the staff work? hide in the bathroom?
> (none acceptable in my upbringing)
>
> oh well, count tiles, windows, chairs, floor tiles.......
> magazines......... damn, i'm running out of things to count what next,
> when WILL i be seen! ??? LOL
>
> kate

And then came the iPhone Check Facebook, read the news of the world,
play games, do banking...

"Tiger Lily" > wrote in message
...
> On 1/4/2012 7:03 PM, Ozgirl wrote:
>>
>>
>> "Tiger Lily" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>> 99% of my interaction with her over the past decade has been in the
>>> interest of SUPPORT, but Julie has made it very clear she only wants
>>> to vent
>>
>> There lies the clue "she only wants to vent".
>
> Dust in the Wind
>
> or is that ****ing into the wind???
>

The answer my friend is ****ing in the wind... I was youtubing Mary
Travers this past week. No one writes songs like those anymore ;(

On 1/4/2012 7:53 PM, Susan wrote:
> I think we all know how to make things the carby, starchy way, but come
> to diabetic food groups for the modifications specific to diabetes.

This is the problem. Everyone's definition of 'foods modified specific
to diabetes' varies WIDELY as everyone needs different things.

The Heart Smart diet is supported.

The Paleo Diet is supported.

The Minimum 235 grams of carbs per day diet is supported.

all by different fractions

at one point, folks were posting a nutritional breakdown for their recipes

I don't have Master Cook on the computer, i need to upgrade the program.
there are many web sites that will give you the breakdown of the meals
(right to vitamin mineral and other interesting stuff)

would a FAQ and disclaimer/clarification be appropriate for this
newsgroup? who would be willing to collaborate on that and who would
post it weekly?

thinking out loud here, there has to be a solution amenable to everyone

kate
(amenable does NOT mean diluted into oblivion!)

In article >,
Tiger Lily > wrote:

> On 1/4/2012 5:45 PM, Alice Faber wrote:
> > True. I spent a lovely afternoon with Alan, his wife, Jenny the Bean,
> > and someone else whose name I forget (not from ASD) on one of his trips.
>
> I'm so jealous Alice!!!!
>
> Jenny the Bean aka Phlaunt is an amazing lady
>
> Alan has been a pillar on ASD when it got thin on the ground
>
> and, we meet diabetics from other locations as well
>
> man, I wish i had been at that meeting just to listen to the conversation!
>
> kate

It was definitely worth the drive (c. 2 hrs each way). The conversation
was mostly about traveling and cultural differences, as I recall.

--
"Isn't embarrassing to quote something you didn't read and then attack
what it didn't say?"--WG, where else but Usenet

On 1/4/2012 8:24 PM, Ozgirl wrote:
>> The diet that Jan referred to is the stage one diet. I am waaay
>> beyond that. I believe there are four stages of diets. Maybe only
>> three. But for me to be on stage one at this point would be just
>> plain silly!
>
> Thanks for expanding on that. I know little about gastroparesis and that
> is the sort of information people need to know about.


interesting

so, a blenderised meat in juice wouldn't ameleorate the digestion
problems for protein, an essential building block for the body?

i mean, beans are full of fibre and that causes lots of problems,
putting them thru a blender won't remove the fibre

kate

"BlueBrooke" > wrote in message
...
> On Thu, 5 Jan 2012 12:03:55 +1000, "Ozgirl"
> > wrote:
>
>>"Tiger Lily" > wrote in message
...
>>
>>> 99% of my interaction with her over the past decade has been in the
>>> interest of SUPPORT, but Julie has made it very clear she only wants
>>> to vent
>>
>>There lies the clue "she only wants to vent".
>
> What you don't seem to appreciate is that Julie is the one who has the
> control here. You want to paint her as a victim -- and she is happy
> to accept that role -- when she's anything but.
>
> She's made the choices here -- to "vent" in a public forum designed
> for discussion and feedback, all the while insisting that's not what
> she wants. But she does it anyway. Actions always speak louder than
> words. "She only wants to vent" isn't the only "clue" here.

I didn't vent anything here!

"Tiger Lily" > wrote in message
...
> On 1/4/2012 7:53 PM, Susan wrote:
>> I think we all know how to make things the carby, starchy way, but
>> come
>> to diabetic food groups for the modifications specific to diabetes.
>
> This is the problem. Everyone's definition of 'foods modified
> specific to diabetes' varies WIDELY as everyone needs different
> things.
>
> The Heart Smart diet is supported.
>
> The Paleo Diet is supported.
>
> The Minimum 235 grams of carbs per day diet is supported.
>
> all by different fractions
>
> at one point, folks were posting a nutritional breakdown for their
> recipes
>
> I don't have Master Cook on the computer, i need to upgrade the
> program. there are many web sites that will give you the breakdown of
> the meals (right to vitamin mineral and other interesting stuff)
>
> would a FAQ and disclaimer/clarification be appropriate for this
> newsgroup? who would be willing to collaborate on that and who would
> post it weekly?
>
> thinking out loud here, there has to be a solution amenable to
> everyone
>
> kate
> (amenable does NOT mean diluted into oblivion!)

I think a simple YMMV re carbs blah blah at the end of a recipe is
enough. Even a recipe for 6 with one potato in it is still a vast
improvement over the high carb meals a lot of people are used to having
before diagnosis. Loretta went for years on portion control with a
little of this, that and anything she fancied.

"Tiger Lily" > wrote in message
...
> On 1/4/2012 8:24 PM, Ozgirl wrote:
>>> The diet that Jan referred to is the stage one diet. I am waaay
>>> beyond that. I believe there are four stages of diets. Maybe only
>>> three. But for me to be on stage one at this point would be just
>>> plain silly!
>>
>> Thanks for expanding on that. I know little about gastroparesis and that
>> is the sort of information people need to know about.
>
>
> interesting
>
> so, a blenderised meat in juice wouldn't ameleorate the digestion problems
> for protein, an essential building block for the body?

Depends on the meat and the fat content.
>
> i mean, beans are full of fibre and that causes lots of problems, putting
> them thru a blender won't remove the fibre

I digest beans very well. I don't digest meat very well. YUMMY but one
food that many in the gastroparesis support group eat and find works for
them is hummus.

"Tiger Lily" > wrote in message
...
> On 1/4/2012 8:24 PM, Ozgirl wrote:
>>> The diet that Jan referred to is the stage one diet. I am waaay
>>> beyond that. I believe there are four stages of diets. Maybe only
>>> three. But for me to be on stage one at this point would be just
>>> plain silly!
>>
>> Thanks for expanding on that. I know little about gastroparesis and
>> that
>> is the sort of information people need to know about.
>
>
> interesting
>
> so, a blenderised meat in juice wouldn't ameleorate the digestion
> problems for protein, an essential building block for the body?
>
> i mean, beans are full of fibre and that causes lots of problems,
> putting them thru a blender won't remove the fibre
>
> kate

I think the blending is to remove lumps as liquid just sort of runs down
whereas chunks of food have to be digested more. In gastroparesis there
is delayed digestion because of the vagus nerve damage. Food just sits
there. .. I may be wrong.

"BlueBrooke" > wrote in message
...

> You know, I was going to respond to you, but you've already shown that
> you're intent on finding an insult to Julie in every post that's made
> by someone you don't like -- even when you're told that you're wrong.
> Have fun with that. I'm sure there's something in this one that you
> can use, too.

You might as well be farting in a March wind BB, it's just useless to try.
:-)

Cheri

Tiger Lily > wrote:
> [ . . . . ]
> would a FAQ and disclaimer/clarification be appropriate for this
> newsgroup? who would be willing to collaborate on that and who would
> post it weekly?
>
> thinking out loud here, there has to be a solution amenable to everyone
>
> kate
> (amenable does NOT mean diluted into oblivion!)

To me, amenable to everyone means so dumbed-down as to be of value to no
one.

--
Nick, KI6VAV. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their
families: https://semperfifund.org https://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/
http://www.specialops.org/ http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/ ~Semper Fi~
http://www.woundedwarriors.ca/ http://www.legacy.com.au/ ~Semper Fi~

"Ozgirl" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> "Tiger Lily" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On 1/4/2012 8:24 PM, Ozgirl wrote:
>>>> The diet that Jan referred to is the stage one diet. I am waaay
>>>> beyond that. I believe there are four stages of diets. Maybe only
>>>> three. But for me to be on stage one at this point would be just
>>>> plain silly!
>>>
>>> Thanks for expanding on that. I know little about gastroparesis and that
>>> is the sort of information people need to know about.
>>
>>
>> interesting
>>
>> so, a blenderised meat in juice wouldn't ameleorate the digestion
>> problems for protein, an essential building block for the body?
>>
>> i mean, beans are full of fibre and that causes lots of problems, putting
>> them thru a blender won't remove the fibre
>>
>> kate
>
> I think the blending is to remove lumps as liquid just sort of runs down
> whereas chunks of food have to be digested more. In gastroparesis there is
> delayed digestion because of the vagus nerve damage. Food just sits there.
> .. I may be wrong.

No. You're right. Certain types of fiber seem to be digested better than
others. Broccoli is one of the worst. I could never eat that. I have to
be super careful with salads. I can eat the equivalent of a dinner salad
about twice a week. Any more than that is pushing it. I think in the case
of meat it is more the fat content that is the problem more than anything
else.

One of the worst times I got sick was following eating a BLT. I didn't put
a lot of tomato or lettuce on it. I did put coconut oil on the bread. But
I put a ton of bacon on it because the bacon was about to go bad. Within a
half an hour of eating it, I could feel the first symptom. Which for me is
saliva building up in my mouth. I don't usually get stomach pains but a lot
of people with gastroparesis do. I will just feel that something is not
right with my stomach. And I guess what that is, is the stomach not moving.
And then I will have to reach for my bowl. I keep one behind my computer
chair, one in the kitchen and another by my bed. If I am in the bathroom
and feel the need I will use either the toilet or the dishpan that I use for
washing hand wash items. When the vomiting occurs it is sudden and violent.
There is no way I could run to the toilet but on occasion I have been
standing right next to it when I know it is going to happen.

Tonight I had bacon for dinner that yes, was about to go bad. I cooked it
all. Gave some to Angela and I took some. She had a piece of chicken left
over from Christmas Eve dinner. She accidentally left it at my parents
house and they froze it for her. It wasn't an overly large piece of meat.
So with the added bacon it wasn't an overload of protein for her. I put all
of the rest of the bacon on my plate but then thought it would be better not
to eat it all. I also had a salad with some feta and grape tomatoes. And
some mashed potatoes. I was able to eat all of the potatoes but began to
feel very full. That is one problem with gastroparesis. A sense of early
fullness and/or lack of appetite. I have learned the hard way that it is
better for me to eat the easily digested carb portion of my meal before I
eat the fat, protein and non-starchy veggies. That way at least I am
getting some nutrition. And that is one reason why I do take so many
supplements. I have run my diet through...the name escapes me now...but
that program Alan recommended. So I know what I am deficient in and I am
just physically unable to eat enough to get all of my nutrients through
food. Anyway... I ate some of the bacon and some of the salad and I didn't
get sick.

Roast beef is another food that can make me very ill. I don't think I have
actually cooked a roast beef from scratch since my diagnosis. If I did, I
didn't eat any. I have bought the Hormel Roast Beef Au Jus because one
package is just enough for Angela and I and two packages is enough if my
husband is home. I do not cook the meat as directed. I heat it in a
skillet after removing all visible fat and then while it is heating I cook
some rice pasta and toss that in with the meat which I have shredded into
little bits. I have tried picking out the noodles and eating only the
amount of meat that sticks to them. But sometimes even that is enough to
make me throw up. Other times I have eaten a lot more of the meat and had
no problems. So I don't know why that food is so iffy for me.

I don't think ground beef has ever caused a problem for my stomach. But it
can stick in my throat and I don't know why. I have to be very careful if I
have a meat patty that I do not take too large of a bite and I have to be
careful to chew it well. If it gets stuck I will feel a pain in my throat.
Once again the saliva will build up. And in this case the vomiting is not
as sudden. I will have time to get to the bathroom. My whole family knows
my signal now. I will simply put my hand up in the air and then run as
quickly as possible to the bathroom. I will then throw up just a little but
maybe 2 or 3 times. I don't know why but cottage cheese and pills can do
the same thing to me. I just have to be careful.

Chicken has never seemed to cause a problem for me. However I have not
tried to eat anything like fried chicken. In fact I have never really liked
fried foods. I will eat French fries in limited amounts but not very often.
And less often, I will eat hash browns or Tater Tots (pellets of shredded
potatoes).

I think the diet I would naturally low in fat because every dietician I have
seen has told me to add fat to it. So I don't think fat is usually a
problem for me. Aside from the bacon incident. And olive bar olives. I do
love those and I used to get them but they did cause a problem for me. In
that case I don't know if it is a case of fat in the olives (they do seem to
be oilier than canned/jarred black, green or kalamata olives) or if it could
actually be food poisoning. I know what the sign says on the olive bar
about how long they will keep depending on whether they are in brine or not.
But... I do not know how long they keep those olives on the olive bar for.
They are in very large containers. They do pack them up around 8:00 at
night.

Another thing that would REALLY get me was the chiropractor I used to go to.
Oh how he would make me sick! He would always say, "Oh! Your digestion is
really screwed up!" Then he would put his hand in front of my stomach and
quickly move his hand in a circle. Mind you, he didn't actually touch me.
But by nightfall, I would be throwing up. We quit going to him because for
the most part he seemed to be doing me more harm than good. He did help
Angela for a while. But we also couldn't afford him on a regular basis.

The reason liquids are recommended in the beginning is gravity. Liquids
tend to go through you when solids might not. And in the worst stages one
is not even considering nutrition because one would usually only stay on
this part of the diet for 2 to 3 days. Regular soda is recommended as is
fat free broth. Mainly one needs to stay hydrated and get a few calories
down.

Foods are gradually added back in, in stages. Some foods that are the
easiest to digest are white bread. white rice and potatoes without the skin.
I realize that these foods would spike a lot of diabetics but they don't
spike me unless I eat too much of them. I used to weigh or measure all of
my food. Always! I finally learned to measure my bowls and plates to see
how much food they hold. I often eat my meals in an assortment of bowls
because of this. I think bj is the one who first suggested measuring the
bowls. So when I am at home, I can not overeat.

I also learned the hard way that if I eat too much fiber, my BG will spike.
I can not eat brown rice, whole wheat bread or whole wheat pasta. Due to
the nature of gastroparesis, these things will stay in the stomach for too
long. And this part is over my head and beyond my ability to explain but
when the food sits in the stomach for too long it raises BG. This is one
reason why it is so difficult to control BG when one has gastroparesis.

Probably the worst meal for a person with gastroparesis to try to eat would
be a big steak with a side of buttered broccoli. Yes, that would probably
be a good meal for most diabetics. But it would never work for a person
with gastroparesis.

The main complication of gastroparesis is something called a bezoar. It is
essentially a food ball. Like a hair ball in a cat but it is a ball of
undigested food. It occurs when one eats too much fiber and or tough to
digest meats. And if it occurs it often has to be surgically removed.
Thankfully it hasn't happened to me yet. I got a very stern warning from my
Gastroenterologist about that. Raw vegetables have always been a favorite
food. He said I could eat them so long as there were no stomach problems.
But if there were, I had to stop them until the problems stopped.

He was actually less strict than my diet than I think a lot of people
because I was already careful with what I ate. Some people who have it are
seriously limited to 2 or 3 liquids they can consume and can never take a
bite of real food. Meal replacements such as Ensure or Boost often don't
work either because many people with this problem can't digest dairy. I
don't know what kind of food replacement is put in the J Tubes if that is
needed. I do talk to one woman on an unrelated forum whose 6 year old son
has gastroparesis among other things. He is not only on a J Tube but oxygen
as well.

On 1/4/2012 11:12 PM, Alice Faber wrote:
>> man, I wish i had been at that meeting just to listen to the conversation!
>> >
>> > kate
> It was definitely worth the drive (c. 2 hrs each way). The conversation
> was mostly about traveling and cultural differences, as I recall.

grin, all part of people

diabetes is a small part of our lives in the grand scheme of our lives

oh, a pervasive part, but small in the long run

kate

"Julie Bove" > wrote:
> "Ozgirl" > wrote in message
> > "Tiger Lily" > wrote in message
> >> On 1/4/2012 8:24 PM, Ozgirl wrote:
> >>>> The diet that Jan referred to is the stage one diet. I am waaay
> >>>> beyond that. I believe there are four stages of diets. Maybe only
> >>>> three. But for me to be on stage one at this point would be just
> >>>> plain silly!
> >>>
> >>> Thanks for expanding on that. I know little about gastroparesis and
> >>> that is the sort of information people need to know about.

> >> interesting
> >>
> >> so, a blenderised meat in juice wouldn't ameleorate the digestion
> >> problems for protein, an essential building block for the body?
> >>
> >> i mean, beans are full of fibre and that causes lots of problems,
> >> putting them thru a blender won't remove the fibre

> > I think the blending is to remove lumps as liquid just sort of runs
> > down whereas chunks of food have to be digested more. In gastroparesis
> > there is delayed digestion because of the vagus nerve damage. Food just
> > sits there. .. I may be wrong.
>
> No. You're right. Certain types of fiber seem to be digested better
> than others. Broccoli is one of the worst. I could never eat that. I
> have to be super careful with salads. I can eat the equivalent of a
> dinner salad about twice a week. Any more than that is pushing it. I
> think in the case of meat it is more the fat content that is the problem
> more than anything else.
>
> One of the worst times I got sick was following eating a BLT. I didn't
> put a lot of tomato or lettuce on it. I did put coconut oil on the
> bread. But I put a ton of bacon on it because the bacon was about to go
> bad. Within a half an hour of eating it, I could feel the first symptom.
> Which for me is saliva building up in my mouth. I don't usually get
> stomach pains but a lot of people with gastroparesis do. I will just
> feel that something is not right with my stomach. And I guess what that
> is, is the stomach not moving. And then I will have to reach for my bowl.
> I keep one behind my computer chair, one in the kitchen and another by my
> bed. If I am in the bathroom and feel the need I will use either the
> toilet or the dishpan that I use for washing hand wash items. When the
> vomiting occurs it is sudden and violent. There is no way I could run to
> the toilet but on occasion I have been standing right next to it when I
> know it is going to happen.
>
> Tonight I had bacon for dinner that yes, was about to go bad. I cooked
> it all. Gave some to Angela and I took some. She had a piece of chicken
> left over from Christmas Eve dinner. She accidentally left it at my
> parents house and they froze it for her. It wasn't an overly large piece
> of meat. So with the added bacon it wasn't an overload of protein for
> her. I put all of the rest of the bacon on my plate but then thought it
> would be better not to eat it all. I also had a salad with some feta and
> grape tomatoes. And some mashed potatoes. I was able to eat all of the
> potatoes but began to feel very full. That is one problem with
> gastroparesis. A sense of early fullness and/or lack of appetite. I
> have learned the hard way that it is better for me to eat the easily
> digested carb portion of my meal before I eat the fat, protein and
> non-starchy veggies. That way at least I am getting some nutrition. And
> that is one reason why I do take so many supplements. I have run my diet
> through...the name escapes me now...but that program Alan recommended.
> So I know what I am deficient in and I am just physically unable to eat
> enough to get all of my nutrients through food. Anyway... I ate some of
> the bacon and some of the salad and I didn't get sick.
>
> Roast beef is another food that can make me very ill. I don't think I
> have actually cooked a roast beef from scratch since my diagnosis. If I
> did, I didn't eat any. I have bought the Hormel Roast Beef Au Jus
> because one package is just enough for Angela and I and two packages is
> enough if my husband is home. I do not cook the meat as directed. I
> heat it in a skillet after removing all visible fat and then while it is
> heating I cook some rice pasta and toss that in with the meat which I
> have shredded into little bits. I have tried picking out the noodles and
> eating only the amount of meat that sticks to them. But sometimes even
> that is enough to make me throw up. Other times I have eaten a lot more
> of the meat and had no problems. So I don't know why that food is so
> iffy for me.
>
> I don't think ground beef has ever caused a problem for my stomach. But
> it can stick in my throat and I don't know why. I have to be very
> careful if I have a meat patty that I do not take too large of a bite and
> I have to be careful to chew it well. If it gets stuck I will feel a
> pain in my throat. Once again the saliva will build up. And in this case
> the vomiting is not as sudden. I will have time to get to the bathroom.
> My whole family knows my signal now. I will simply put my hand up in the
> air and then run as quickly as possible to the bathroom. I will then
> throw up just a little but maybe 2 or 3 times. I don't know why but
> cottage cheese and pills can do the same thing to me. I just have to be
> careful.
>
> Chicken has never seemed to cause a problem for me. However I have not
> tried to eat anything like fried chicken. In fact I have never really
> liked fried foods. I will eat French fries in limited amounts but not
> very often. And less often, I will eat hash browns or Tater Tots (pellets
> of shredded potatoes).
>
> I think the diet I would naturally low in fat because every dietician I
> have seen has told me to add fat to it. So I don't think fat is usually
> a problem for me. Aside from the bacon incident. And olive bar olives.
> I do love those and I used to get them but they did cause a problem for
> me. In that case I don't know if it is a case of fat in the olives (they
> do seem to be oilier than canned/jarred black, green or kalamata olives)
> or if it could actually be food poisoning. I know what the sign says on
> the olive bar about how long they will keep depending on whether they are
> in brine or not. But... I do not know how long they keep those olives on
> the olive bar for. They are in very large containers. They do pack them
> up around 8:00 at night.
>
> Another thing that would REALLY get me was the chiropractor I used to go
> to. Oh how he would make me sick! He would always say, "Oh! Your
> digestion is really screwed up!" Then he would put his hand in front of
> my stomach and quickly move his hand in a circle. Mind you, he didn't
> actually touch me. But by nightfall, I would be throwing up. We quit
> going to him because for the most part he seemed to be doing me more harm
> than good. He did help Angela for a while. But we also couldn't afford
> him on a regular basis.
>
> The reason liquids are recommended in the beginning is gravity. Liquids
> tend to go through you when solids might not. And in the worst stages
> one is not even considering nutrition because one would usually only stay
> on this part of the diet for 2 to 3 days. Regular soda is recommended as
> is fat free broth. Mainly one needs to stay hydrated and get a few
> calories down.
>
> Foods are gradually added back in, in stages. Some foods that are the
> easiest to digest are white bread. white rice and potatoes without the
> skin. I realize that these foods would spike a lot of diabetics but they
> don't spike me unless I eat too much of them. I used to weigh or measure
> all of my food. Always! I finally learned to measure my bowls and
> plates to see how much food they hold. I often eat my meals in an
> assortment of bowls because of this. I think bj is the one who first
> suggested measuring the bowls. So when I am at home, I can not overeat.
>
> I also learned the hard way that if I eat too much fiber, my BG will
> spike. I can not eat brown rice, whole wheat bread or whole wheat pasta.
> Due to the nature of gastroparesis, these things will stay in the stomach
> for too long. And this part is over my head and beyond my ability to
> explain but when the food sits in the stomach for too long it raises BG.
> This is one reason why it is so difficult to control BG when one has
> gastroparesis.
>
> Probably the worst meal for a person with gastroparesis to try to eat
> would be a big steak with a side of buttered broccoli. Yes, that would
> probably be a good meal for most diabetics. But it would never work for
> a person with gastroparesis.
>
> The main complication of gastroparesis is something called a bezoar. It
> is essentially a food ball. Like a hair ball in a cat but it is a ball
> of undigested food. It occurs when one eats too much fiber and or tough
> to digest meats. And if it occurs it often has to be surgically removed.
> Thankfully it hasn't happened to me yet. I got a very stern warning from
> my Gastroenterologist about that. Raw vegetables have always been a
> favorite food. He said I could eat them so long as there were no stomach
> problems. But if there were, I had to stop them until the problems
> stopped.
>
> He was actually less strict than my diet than I think a lot of people
> because I was already careful with what I ate. Some people who have it
> are seriously limited to 2 or 3 liquids they can consume and can never
> take a bite of real food. Meal replacements such as Ensure or Boost
> often don't work either because many people with this problem can't
> digest dairy. I don't know what kind of food replacement is put in the J
> Tubes if that is needed. I do talk to one woman on an unrelated forum
> whose 6 year old son has gastroparesis among other things. He is not
> only on a J Tube but oxygen as well.

Thanks, Julie. Fascinating first-hand case study. Anecdotal, but described
in detail.

--
Nick, KI6VAV. Support severely wounded and disabled Veterans and their
families: https://semperfifund.org https://www.woundedwarriorproject.org/
http://www.specialops.org/ http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/ ~Semper Fi~
http://www.woundedwarriors.ca/ http://www.legacy.com.au/ ~Semper Fi~

On 05 Jan 2012 07:31:13 GMT, Nick Cramer >
wrote:

>Tiger Lily > wrote:
>> [ . . . . ]
>> would a FAQ and disclaimer/clarification be appropriate for this
>> newsgroup? who would be willing to collaborate on that and who would
>> post it weekly?
>>
>> thinking out loud here, there has to be a solution amenable to everyone
>>
>> kate
>> (amenable does NOT mean diluted into oblivion!)
>
>To me, amenable to everyone means so dumbed-down as to be of value to no
>one.


BINGO! Well said.

I could have eliminated the 1/4 cup of rice and the one small potato
from that recipe, but I assumed that those whose "mileage" didn't
include them, could do that for themselves!

Evelyn

On Wed, 04 Jan 2012 22:50:34 -0700, Tiger Lily > wrote:

>On 1/4/2012 6:25 PM, Evelyn wrote:
>> We have all been called on our crap from time to time. Surely I have,
>> and probably you too. I have no anger or dislike for Julie and if
>> someone has been unfair to her in this, I don't want to join in or
>> help that. Whatever I have said has been meant constructively, and I
>> thought I was clear enough on that point. Seems there has been a
>> little more going on here than I originally thought.
>>
>> Evelyn
>
>Evelyn, i started out trying to be helpful. Your comments were
>CONstructive criticisms, not the vile negative i'm ok, you aren't
>DEStructive criticisms. Problem is, NO COMMENT is the best reponse (as
>i have discovered too late)
>
>kate


Yes, I can see that. I chose to leave this group from time to time
because of the carb arguments and personality issues. I think I am a
pretty good cook and basically I like everyone, but occasionally even
I get annoyed, unfortunately.

This recent bit is a good example.

Best,
Evelyn

On Wed, 04 Jan 2012 23:06:50 -0700, Tiger Lily > wrote:

>On 1/4/2012 7:53 PM, Susan wrote:
>> I think we all know how to make things the carby, starchy way, but come
>> to diabetic food groups for the modifications specific to diabetes.
>
>This is the problem. Everyone's definition of 'foods modified specific
>to diabetes' varies WIDELY as everyone needs different things.
>
>The Heart Smart diet is supported.
>
>The Paleo Diet is supported.
>
>The Minimum 235 grams of carbs per day diet is supported.
>
>all by different fractions
>
>at one point, folks were posting a nutritional breakdown for their recipes
>
>I don't have Master Cook on the computer, i need to upgrade the program.
> there are many web sites that will give you the breakdown of the meals
>(right to vitamin mineral and other interesting stuff)
>
>would a FAQ and disclaimer/clarification be appropriate for this
>newsgroup? who would be willing to collaborate on that and who would
>post it weekly?
>
>thinking out loud here, there has to be a solution amenable to everyone
>
>kate
>(amenable does NOT mean diluted into oblivion!)



The solution is simple.....TOLERANCE!

I see tolerance as the only way to reconcile all the different
problems, illness-complications, eating styles and personalities
involved in this newsgroup.

When you figure out that a certain recipe has a small amount of some
carbohydrate food in it, you have to be your own best advocate. Only
you know how much of that product your meter can handle!

Susan said last evening, indicating that she would rather NOT take a
pill in order to eat SOME carbohydrates. I am fine with her doing
that for her life and health, but I do it differently.

I am FINE with taking a Januvia pill each day in order to eat a small
piece of whole grain low carb toast with my egg for breakfast, and
again at lunch, and either a half cup of brown rice or a small potato,
or a half a cup of dreamfields pasta with my dinner.

I CHOOSE to eat this way, and my A-1 C is now in NON diabetic range
and I have lost 50 lbs since August, when I had my surgery for weight
loss. (for those who aren't familiar with it, I had the vertical
gastric sleeve surgery then).

I can "afford" to eat a slice of bread with each meal. It helps make
my life a little more tolerable. In taking a pill daily, I may be
shortening my life, but it is MY choice to live a QUALITY life over a
long but joylessly carb free life.

I REFUSE to change what I post because some person here cannot eat the
recipe as I have posted it.

We are not babies here, we all know the deal with diabetes, and we
have to change and adapt our eating habits to our own individual needs
WITHOUT PICKING ON PEOPLE about it.

There is no ONE and only way to deal with the food issues involved
with diabetes.

Evelyn

On Thu, 5 Jan 2012 16:28:42 +1000, "Ozgirl"
> wrote:

>
>
>"Tiger Lily" > wrote in message
...
>> On 1/4/2012 7:53 PM, Susan wrote:
>>> I think we all know how to make things the carby, starchy way, but
>>> come
>>> to diabetic food groups for the modifications specific to diabetes.
>>
>> This is the problem. Everyone's definition of 'foods modified
>> specific to diabetes' varies WIDELY as everyone needs different
>> things.
>>
>> The Heart Smart diet is supported.
>>
>> The Paleo Diet is supported.
>>
>> The Minimum 235 grams of carbs per day diet is supported.
>>
>> all by different fractions
>>
>> at one point, folks were posting a nutritional breakdown for their
>> recipes
>>
>> I don't have Master Cook on the computer, i need to upgrade the
>> program. there are many web sites that will give you the breakdown of
>> the meals (right to vitamin mineral and other interesting stuff)
>>
>> would a FAQ and disclaimer/clarification be appropriate for this
>> newsgroup? who would be willing to collaborate on that and who would
>> post it weekly?
>>
>> thinking out loud here, there has to be a solution amenable to
>> everyone
>>
>> kate
>> (amenable does NOT mean diluted into oblivion!)
>
>I think a simple YMMV re carbs blah blah at the end of a recipe is
>enough. Even a recipe for 6 with one potato in it is still a vast
>improvement over the high carb meals a lot of people are used to having
>before diagnosis. Loretta went for years on portion control with a
>little of this, that and anything she fancied.


Habitually typing YMMV at the end of every recipe may satisfy some,
but in life there are no such labels. We all need to do some editing
based on our own experience and knowledge and of course, our meter!

:-)

Evelyn

Tiger Lily > wrote:
: On 1/4/2012 8:24 PM, Ozgirl wrote:
: >> The diet that Jan referred to is the stage one diet. I am waaay
: >> beyond that. I believe there are four stages of diets. Maybe only
: >> three. But for me to be on stage one at this point would be just
: >> plain silly!
: >
: > Thanks for expanding on that. I know little about gastroparesis and that
: > is the sort of information people need to know about.


: interesting

: so, a blenderised meat in juice wouldn't ameleorate the digestion
: problems for protein, an essential building block for the body?

: i mean, beans are full of fibre and that causes lots of problems,
: putting them thru a blender won't remove the fibre

: kate

But woulln't it at lest get it past the stomach which seems to be a big
part of the Gastorparesis problem Julie mentions, that feeling fuul
because the stomach won't empty , particularly wit hard to igest meat and
fibel?

Wendy