Vegan (alt.food.vegan) This newsgroup exists to share ideas and issues of concern among vegans. We are always happy to share our recipes- perhaps especially with omnivores who are simply curious- or even better, accomodating a vegan guest for a meal!

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  #61 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 11-12-2004, 09:47 PM
Scented Nectar
 
Posts: n/a
Default


IIRC, a 900 pound bull moose will dress out at about 500 pounds.

That's
2000 quarter-pound servings from one dead animal. Your rice, Yves
fake-meat sausage, and other foods result in many more animal
casualities and fatalities. How many meals do you get from all those
dead mice, frogs, rats, snakes, birds, deer, and whatever else gets

run
over, sliced, diced, poisoned, or drowned so you can eat fake meat and
machine-harvested rice? If it's more than 2000, you can claim victory

in
the counting game. Until then, what I told you before stands:

Moose-included diet: one animal death results in many meals.
Your vegan diet: many animal deaths result in one meal.


How many times must I correct you? If you are going
to compare wildcrafted meat with 0 cds, then compare
it to wildcrafted and/or veganically grown plant-based
food, also with 0 cds.

--
SN
http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/
A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites.
Has a fun 'Jump to a Randon Link' button.



  #62 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 11-12-2004, 09:48 PM
usual suspect
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Scented Nectar wrote:
Thanks for helping to demonstrate that, contrary to the
foolish assertions of John Coleman, "veganism" VERY
MUCH IS about a numbers game.


The numbers, when calculated properly will always
show eating vegan is better.


See:
http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html

It IS a form of religion. A belief system need not
have priests and sacred texts to be a religion,
although "veganism" has things very much like priests
and sacred texts.


I don't agree. At it's most extreme, it could be called
a lifestyle or a philosophy.


Wrong. That's what it's been from it's beginning:
In late 1944, The Vegan Society was established, advocating a
totally plant-based diet excluding flesh, fish, fowl, eggs,
honey, and animals' milk, butter, and cheese, and also
encouraging the manufacture and use of alternatives to animal
commodities, including clothing and shoes. The group argued that
the elimination of exploitation of any kind was necessary in
order to bring about a more reasonable and humane society. FROM
ITS INCEPTION, VEGANISM WAS DEFINED AS A "PHILOSOPHY" AND "WAY
OF LIVING." IT WAS NEVER INTENDED TO BE MERELY A DIET AND, STILL
TODAY, DESCRIBES A LIFESTYLE AND BELIEF SYSTEM THAT REVOLVES
AROUND A REVERENCE FOR LIFE.
http://www.vegsource.com/jo/veganliving.htm

There is no such word as "veganic".


There should be.


No.

It's a great word.


It only demonstrates something I didn't get into in my post about
fundamentalism and veganism: after a while, fundamentalist sects break
down into competing, hair-splitting factions. It's something which
basically is a hair-splitting attempt at becoming even more
self-righteous about how one's food is actually grown than a normal, run
of the mill vegan. That's NOT a good thing. It's a sign of going off the
deep end. And you're showing approval of it. Tsk, tsk.

Someone here used it a few days ago.


It's an illiterate attempt of joining two words so one can
sanctimoniously differentiate himself, and accordingly his even more
peculiar beliefs and practices, from all the other run of the mill
(heretical, "vegan in name only") vegans.
  #63 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 11-12-2004, 09:48 PM
usual suspect
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Scented Nectar wrote:
Thanks for helping to demonstrate that, contrary to the
foolish assertions of John Coleman, "veganism" VERY
MUCH IS about a numbers game.


The numbers, when calculated properly will always
show eating vegan is better.


See:
http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html

It IS a form of religion. A belief system need not
have priests and sacred texts to be a religion,
although "veganism" has things very much like priests
and sacred texts.


I don't agree. At it's most extreme, it could be called
a lifestyle or a philosophy.


Wrong. That's what it's been from it's beginning:
In late 1944, The Vegan Society was established, advocating a
totally plant-based diet excluding flesh, fish, fowl, eggs,
honey, and animals' milk, butter, and cheese, and also
encouraging the manufacture and use of alternatives to animal
commodities, including clothing and shoes. The group argued that
the elimination of exploitation of any kind was necessary in
order to bring about a more reasonable and humane society. FROM
ITS INCEPTION, VEGANISM WAS DEFINED AS A "PHILOSOPHY" AND "WAY
OF LIVING." IT WAS NEVER INTENDED TO BE MERELY A DIET AND, STILL
TODAY, DESCRIBES A LIFESTYLE AND BELIEF SYSTEM THAT REVOLVES
AROUND A REVERENCE FOR LIFE.
http://www.vegsource.com/jo/veganliving.htm

There is no such word as "veganic".


There should be.


No.

It's a great word.


It only demonstrates something I didn't get into in my post about
fundamentalism and veganism: after a while, fundamentalist sects break
down into competing, hair-splitting factions. It's something which
basically is a hair-splitting attempt at becoming even more
self-righteous about how one's food is actually grown than a normal, run
of the mill vegan. That's NOT a good thing. It's a sign of going off the
deep end. And you're showing approval of it. Tsk, tsk.

Someone here used it a few days ago.


It's an illiterate attempt of joining two words so one can
sanctimoniously differentiate himself, and accordingly his even more
peculiar beliefs and practices, from all the other run of the mill
(heretical, "vegan in name only") vegans.
  #64 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 11-12-2004, 09:50 PM
rick etter
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Scented Nectar" wrote in message
...

IIRC, a 900 pound bull moose will dress out at about 500 pounds.

That's
2000 quarter-pound servings from one dead animal. Your rice, Yves
fake-meat sausage, and other foods result in many more animal
casualities and fatalities. How many meals do you get from all those
dead mice, frogs, rats, snakes, birds, deer, and whatever else gets

run
over, sliced, diced, poisoned, or drowned so you can eat fake meat and
machine-harvested rice? If it's more than 2000, you can claim victory

in
the counting game. Until then, what I told you before stands:

Moose-included diet: one animal death results in many meals.
Your vegan diet: many animal deaths result in one meal.


How many times must I correct you? If you are going
to compare wildcrafted meat with 0 cds, then compare
it to wildcrafted and/or veganically grown plant-based
food, also with 0 cds.

=====================
As soon as you correct yourself, fool. You made the claim that all vegan
foods are better than all meats. A claim that you cannot back up, and have
now been shown to be a ly. So now it's up to goal-post moves. Nice try
hypocrite, but your diet still loses, killer.



--
SN
http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/

Irony, ignorance and hypocrisy on display.
A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites.
Has a fun 'Jump to a Randon Link' button.
Irony, ignorance and hypocrisy on display.



  #65 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 11-12-2004, 09:50 PM
rick etter
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Scented Nectar" wrote in message
...

IIRC, a 900 pound bull moose will dress out at about 500 pounds.

That's
2000 quarter-pound servings from one dead animal. Your rice, Yves
fake-meat sausage, and other foods result in many more animal
casualities and fatalities. How many meals do you get from all those
dead mice, frogs, rats, snakes, birds, deer, and whatever else gets

run
over, sliced, diced, poisoned, or drowned so you can eat fake meat and
machine-harvested rice? If it's more than 2000, you can claim victory

in
the counting game. Until then, what I told you before stands:

Moose-included diet: one animal death results in many meals.
Your vegan diet: many animal deaths result in one meal.


How many times must I correct you? If you are going
to compare wildcrafted meat with 0 cds, then compare
it to wildcrafted and/or veganically grown plant-based
food, also with 0 cds.

=====================
As soon as you correct yourself, fool. You made the claim that all vegan
foods are better than all meats. A claim that you cannot back up, and have
now been shown to be a ly. So now it's up to goal-post moves. Nice try
hypocrite, but your diet still loses, killer.



--
SN
http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/

Irony, ignorance and hypocrisy on display.
A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites.
Has a fun 'Jump to a Randon Link' button.
Irony, ignorance and hypocrisy on display.





  #66 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 11-12-2004, 09:52 PM
Scented Nectar
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"rick etter" wrote in message
ink.net...
Thanks for again displaying your dishonesty, stinky...


Where's that? And get your nose out
of my armpit you pig!! The nerve of these
usenet trolls!!!

The numbers, when calculated properly will always
show eating vegan is better.

================
Then prove your numbers fool! Come on, it should be easy, since you

make
that claim all the time.


I've already proven it over in alt.food.vegan more
times than I can keep count of, not to mention
all the times I correct the comparisons made.

There is no such word as "veganic".


There should be. It's a great word. Someone here used
it a few days ago.




--
SN
http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/
A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites.
Has a fun 'Jump to a Randon Link' button.


  #67 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 11-12-2004, 09:52 PM
Scented Nectar
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"rick etter" wrote in message
ink.net...
Thanks for again displaying your dishonesty, stinky...


Where's that? And get your nose out
of my armpit you pig!! The nerve of these
usenet trolls!!!

The numbers, when calculated properly will always
show eating vegan is better.

================
Then prove your numbers fool! Come on, it should be easy, since you

make
that claim all the time.


I've already proven it over in alt.food.vegan more
times than I can keep count of, not to mention
all the times I correct the comparisons made.

There is no such word as "veganic".


There should be. It's a great word. Someone here used
it a few days ago.




--
SN
http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/
A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites.
Has a fun 'Jump to a Randon Link' button.


  #68 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 11-12-2004, 10:00 PM
usual suspect
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Scented Nectar wrote:
...
How many times must I correct you?


Zero. You should correct your gross errors and distortions.

If you are going
to compare wildcrafted meat with 0 cds, then compare
it to wildcrafted and/or veganically grown plant-based
food, also with 0 cds.


The difference in our culture is that people hunt moose and eat it, but
they don't use the kinds of agricultural practices common in third-world
subsistence farming. IOW, the argument I'm making (and others) is based
on reality. The argument you're making isn't.
  #69 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 11-12-2004, 10:00 PM
usual suspect
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Scented Nectar wrote:
...
How many times must I correct you?


Zero. You should correct your gross errors and distortions.

If you are going
to compare wildcrafted meat with 0 cds, then compare
it to wildcrafted and/or veganically grown plant-based
food, also with 0 cds.


The difference in our culture is that people hunt moose and eat it, but
they don't use the kinds of agricultural practices common in third-world
subsistence farming. IOW, the argument I'm making (and others) is based
on reality. The argument you're making isn't.
  #70 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 11-12-2004, 10:02 PM
Scented Nectar
 
Posts: n/a
Default

As far as numbers go, usual has posted in
alt.food.vegan proof that at it's very best the
meat industry has a 2.5:1 crop:finalproduct
ratio.

====================
Yet you still ignore the fact that not all meat needs or gets this
crop/finishing. Why is that hypocrite? Afraid that it shows the

ignorance
and hypocrisy of your spew?


I'm not talking about fringe foods like your
scrub raised goat or my potatoes I bought
at a small farm where they harvest manually.

I'm referring to the meat industry as a whole
and the plants grown for human consumption
industry as a whole.

No, it does not, and he should you that too! Why do your selectivly

pick
and choose, then dishonestly spin what you are told, killer?


First of all, can you repeat that first sentence?
I can't make heads or tails of it. I honestly
believe what I write. What do you think is
so dishonest?

As far as animal deaths from non-veganic
farming goes, at best the meat industry
causes 2.5 times the cds.

================
No, it is not. hy do you repeat this ly over and over? trying to

convince
yourself?


You just don't get it, do you. Or maybe you
do and are shit disturbing just to try and drive
people mad.

Why do you have to keep on being reminded
that veganism is not a religion?

==================
But it is, your dogmatic faith in the lys that you keep posting prove

it,
hypocrite.


Liar. My religion is atheism. Veganism is a
food system I feel is best for a number of reasons.

No fool. There is no need for me to compare any meat to any specific
veggies. You have already made the claim that all vegan diets are

better
than any meat-included diets. You made the original comparison, so

all I
have to do is show you how you lied. Very easy to do really, just

read what
you write, and poof, the lys are there...


Hey, if you're going to specify a fringe market meat,
I get to specify fringe market plant foods.



--
SN
http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/
A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites.
Has a fun 'Jump to a Randon Link' button.




  #71 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 11-12-2004, 10:02 PM
Scented Nectar
 
Posts: n/a
Default

As far as numbers go, usual has posted in
alt.food.vegan proof that at it's very best the
meat industry has a 2.5:1 crop:finalproduct
ratio.

====================
Yet you still ignore the fact that not all meat needs or gets this
crop/finishing. Why is that hypocrite? Afraid that it shows the

ignorance
and hypocrisy of your spew?


I'm not talking about fringe foods like your
scrub raised goat or my potatoes I bought
at a small farm where they harvest manually.

I'm referring to the meat industry as a whole
and the plants grown for human consumption
industry as a whole.

No, it does not, and he should you that too! Why do your selectivly

pick
and choose, then dishonestly spin what you are told, killer?


First of all, can you repeat that first sentence?
I can't make heads or tails of it. I honestly
believe what I write. What do you think is
so dishonest?

As far as animal deaths from non-veganic
farming goes, at best the meat industry
causes 2.5 times the cds.

================
No, it is not. hy do you repeat this ly over and over? trying to

convince
yourself?


You just don't get it, do you. Or maybe you
do and are shit disturbing just to try and drive
people mad.

Why do you have to keep on being reminded
that veganism is not a religion?

==================
But it is, your dogmatic faith in the lys that you keep posting prove

it,
hypocrite.


Liar. My religion is atheism. Veganism is a
food system I feel is best for a number of reasons.

No fool. There is no need for me to compare any meat to any specific
veggies. You have already made the claim that all vegan diets are

better
than any meat-included diets. You made the original comparison, so

all I
have to do is show you how you lied. Very easy to do really, just

read what
you write, and poof, the lys are there...


Hey, if you're going to specify a fringe market meat,
I get to specify fringe market plant foods.



--
SN
http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/
A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites.
Has a fun 'Jump to a Randon Link' button.


  #72 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 11-12-2004, 10:03 PM
usual suspect
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Scented Nectar wrote:
...
The numbers, when calculated properly will always
show eating vegan is better.


================
Then prove your numbers fool! Come on, it should be easy, since you
make that claim all the time.


I've already proven it over in alt.food.vegan more
times than I can keep count of,


No, you've REPEATED the same thing over and over. You have NOT proven
anything. You've only ducked tail and run when asked to prove things.

...
  #73 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 11-12-2004, 10:03 PM
usual suspect
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Scented Nectar wrote:
...
The numbers, when calculated properly will always
show eating vegan is better.


================
Then prove your numbers fool! Come on, it should be easy, since you
make that claim all the time.


I've already proven it over in alt.food.vegan more
times than I can keep count of,


No, you've REPEATED the same thing over and over. You have NOT proven
anything. You've only ducked tail and run when asked to prove things.

...
  #74 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 11-12-2004, 10:09 PM
rick etter
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Scented Nectar" wrote in message
...
As far as numbers go, usual has posted in
alt.food.vegan proof that at it's very best the
meat industry has a 2.5:1 crop:finalproduct
ratio.

====================
Yet you still ignore the fact that not all meat needs or gets this
crop/finishing. Why is that hypocrite? Afraid that it shows the

ignorance
and hypocrisy of your spew?


I'm not talking about fringe foods like your
scrub raised goat or my potatoes I bought
at a small farm where they harvest manually.

===========================
Niether am I fool. The meat I eat is readily available. farm more so than
any mythical organic stuff you claim to buy...



I'm referring to the meat industry as a whole
and the plants grown for human consumption
industry as a whole.

======================
Why? We are discussing what you and I can do individually. That you have
to move the goalpost to include everybody else says that you don't really
bekieve you diet does what you claim, hypocrite.



No, it does not, and he should you that too! Why do your selectivly

pick
and choose, then dishonestly spin what you are told, killer?


First of all, can you repeat that first sentence?

===============
Fine fool. He also 'showed' you that your diet isn't 1:1. Why do you
continue to ly?


I can't make heads or tails of it. I honestly
believe what I write. What do you think is
so dishonest?

===============
Your constant snipping, and your selective quoting. You were also shown
that you diet isn't 1:1, yet you keep repeting the ly.



As far as animal deaths from non-veganic
farming goes, at best the meat industry
causes 2.5 times the cds.

================
No, it is not. hy do you repeat this ly over and over? trying to

convince
yourself?


You just don't get it, do you. Or maybe you
do and are shit disturbing just to try and drive
people mad.

=================
I get it very well, *you* don't believe in your own diet, so you have to ly
about somebody elses. You cannot focus on yours, because you lose that
argument, everytime, killer.


Why do you have to keep on being reminded
that veganism is not a religion?

==================
But it is, your dogmatic faith in the lys that you keep posting prove

it,
hypocrite.


Liar. My religion is atheism. Veganism is a
food system I feel is best for a number of reasons.

==============
Both are faith based, fool...


No fool. There is no need for me to compare any meat to any specific
veggies. You have already made the claim that all vegan diets are

better
than any meat-included diets. You made the original comparison, so

all I
have to do is show you how you lied. Very easy to do really, just

read what
you write, and poof, the lys are there...


Hey, if you're going to specify a fringe market meat,
I get to specify fringe market plant foods.

=====================
Go right ahead, only the meat I eat is not fringe market. It's widely
available. Despite your continue lys, not all beef is finished on grains...
All your crops are the definition of habitat destruction and environmental
damage. You can't get around it, killer.




--
SN
http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/
A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites.
Has a fun 'Jump to a Randon Link' button.
Irony, ignorance and hypocrisy on display.





  #75 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 11-12-2004, 10:09 PM
rick etter
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Scented Nectar" wrote in message
...
As far as numbers go, usual has posted in
alt.food.vegan proof that at it's very best the
meat industry has a 2.5:1 crop:finalproduct
ratio.

====================
Yet you still ignore the fact that not all meat needs or gets this
crop/finishing. Why is that hypocrite? Afraid that it shows the

ignorance
and hypocrisy of your spew?


I'm not talking about fringe foods like your
scrub raised goat or my potatoes I bought
at a small farm where they harvest manually.

===========================
Niether am I fool. The meat I eat is readily available. farm more so than
any mythical organic stuff you claim to buy...



I'm referring to the meat industry as a whole
and the plants grown for human consumption
industry as a whole.

======================
Why? We are discussing what you and I can do individually. That you have
to move the goalpost to include everybody else says that you don't really
bekieve you diet does what you claim, hypocrite.



No, it does not, and he should you that too! Why do your selectivly

pick
and choose, then dishonestly spin what you are told, killer?


First of all, can you repeat that first sentence?

===============
Fine fool. He also 'showed' you that your diet isn't 1:1. Why do you
continue to ly?


I can't make heads or tails of it. I honestly
believe what I write. What do you think is
so dishonest?

===============
Your constant snipping, and your selective quoting. You were also shown
that you diet isn't 1:1, yet you keep repeting the ly.



As far as animal deaths from non-veganic
farming goes, at best the meat industry
causes 2.5 times the cds.

================
No, it is not. hy do you repeat this ly over and over? trying to

convince
yourself?


You just don't get it, do you. Or maybe you
do and are shit disturbing just to try and drive
people mad.

=================
I get it very well, *you* don't believe in your own diet, so you have to ly
about somebody elses. You cannot focus on yours, because you lose that
argument, everytime, killer.


Why do you have to keep on being reminded
that veganism is not a religion?

==================
But it is, your dogmatic faith in the lys that you keep posting prove

it,
hypocrite.


Liar. My religion is atheism. Veganism is a
food system I feel is best for a number of reasons.

==============
Both are faith based, fool...


No fool. There is no need for me to compare any meat to any specific
veggies. You have already made the claim that all vegan diets are

better
than any meat-included diets. You made the original comparison, so

all I
have to do is show you how you lied. Very easy to do really, just

read what
you write, and poof, the lys are there...


Hey, if you're going to specify a fringe market meat,
I get to specify fringe market plant foods.

=====================
Go right ahead, only the meat I eat is not fringe market. It's widely
available. Despite your continue lys, not all beef is finished on grains...
All your crops are the definition of habitat destruction and environmental
damage. You can't get around it, killer.




--
SN
http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/
A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites.
Has a fun 'Jump to a Randon Link' button.
Irony, ignorance and hypocrisy on display.





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