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US Janet wrote:

> On Mon, 14 Jun 2021 09:51:38 -0400, Sheldon Martin >
> wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 13 Jun 2021 21:37:23 -0400, Michael Trew
> > > wrote:
> >
> > > On 6/13/2021 12:52 AM, GM wrote:
> >>> On Saturday, June 12, 2021 at 11:29:00 PM UTC-5, Michael Trew

> wrote: >>>> I'm not sure what recently compelled me to make a double
> recipe of toll >>>> house cookies, but it somehow came out to be
> about 9 dozen cookies. In >>>> a house without A/C on a near 90
> degree day, that wasn't my smartest idea.
> > > > >
> >>>> I decided to turn off the the pilot lights on my stove to save

> on heat >>>> in the kitchen, and supper was just a cold chipped
> chopped ham and >>>> provolone sandwich. The humidity has my fridge
> desperately needing >>>> defrosted as well. I suppose it's all better
> than snow, however.
> > > >
> > > >
> >>> Years ago I used to do a lot of home canning. I didn't have A/C,

> and I'd often choose the hottest days to can. It would be SO hot
> that it would be a "transcedental" experience - and accompanied by
> LOTS of ice - cold beer...
> > > >
> >>> Couldn't do that now, I'd surely croak...
> > >
> > > I have grandma's old huge enamel pot with the wire rack in the
> > > bottom. I might pick up some Ball jars and try my hand at
> > > canning this year. I planted a dozen tomato plants, so why not?

> >
> > Depends what type of tomatoes, not all can well. Salad tomatoes (the
> > type most grow) are too watery for canning and sauce. Long
> > simmering to reduce water ends up with brown tomato sauce and a
> > burnt flavor. I grow a lot of Romas and to preserve I freeze, a
> > lot safer and saves storage space. I use cubical plastic
> > containers, stack like bricks. A Foley food mill removes skins,
> > cores, and seeds. Prepare sauce with minimal cooking and freeze.
> > It costs a lot less and is far safer to buy ones tomato products by
> > the case in #10 cans.
> > A large home vegetable garden is a lot of work and expence, we do it
> > for the enjoyment, no monetary savings.
> > We grow a lot of different tomatoes, most are eaten as salad
> > tomatoes, many are grilled.... at seasons end we fry green tomatoes
> > and pickle green tomatoes along with Kirby cukes.
> > Factory canned removes excess water with a huge vacuum tower (silo
> > sized), same method used for frozen OJ concentrate, and tomato
> > paste... minimally heated and water vapor vacuumed off... equipment
> > is too costly for home use.

>
> Non-paste tomatoes (regular eating tomatoes) are fine for home canning
> just as they are. No boiling down needed. For decades I used a quart
> of home canned tomatoes to make caseroles, chili, sauce for pasta
> dinner. If you run out of cannng jars you can freeze the tomatoes
> whole with skins on. When you need tomatoes for cooking simply remove
> the frozen tomatoes from the freezer, run hot water over them and the
> skin will slip off. You can also skin and chop them and measure out
> your most common used size and freeze that way. It's true that the
> paste tomatoes have less water in them but I wouldn't let that deter
> me from canning or freezing the tomatoes I have in my garden.
> Janet US


LOL, I just posted that bit on freezing as is. Really easy.

Last night we had fried green tomatoes with dinner. We also had yellow
squash and Gai Lan from the garden with leftover butter baked Perch.

Looks like the bell peppers are doing very well also. Bunnies got my
carrot tops though. Ah well. Some may work out still.
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Michael Trew wrote:

> On 6/13/2021 1:26 PM, John Kuthe wrote:
> > On Saturday, June 12, 2021 at 11:29:00 PM UTC-5, Michael Trew wrote:
> > > I'm not sure what recently compelled me to make a double recipe
> > > of toll house cookies, but it somehow came out to be about 9
> > > dozen cookies. In a house without A/C on a near 90 degree day,
> > > that wasn't my smartest idea.
> > >
> > > I decided to turn off the the pilot lights on my stove to save on
> > > heat in the kitchen, and supper was just a cold chipped chopped
> > > ham and provolone sandwich. The humidity has my fridge
> > > desperately needing defrosted as well. I suppose it's all better
> > > than snow, however.

> >
> > I turn of my stove's pilot light permanently! I went all ELECTRIC!
> > And I have my gas company come and pull their gas meter from my
> > house!
> >
> > John Kuthe, RN, BSN...

>
> Natural gas is dirt cheap around here, I'll keep my stove. I don't
> care about the oven, other than the cost, but I hate cooking on an
> electric stove top.


Same here but it's all in what you are used to. Gas is far more
flexible than electric or induction.
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Michael Trew wrote:

> On 6/13/2021 12:52 AM, GM wrote:
> > On Saturday, June 12, 2021 at 11:29:00 PM UTC-5, Michael Trew wrote:
> >> I'm not sure what recently compelled me to make a double recipe of toll
> >> house cookies, but it somehow came out to be about 9 dozen cookies. In
> >> a house without A/C on a near 90 degree day, that wasn't my smartest idea.
> >>
> >> I decided to turn off the the pilot lights on my stove to save on heat
> >> in the kitchen, and supper was just a cold chipped chopped ham and
> >> provolone sandwich. The humidity has my fridge desperately needing
> >> defrosted as well. I suppose it's all better than snow, however.

> >
> >
> > Years ago I used to do a lot of home canning. I didn't have A/C, and I'd often choose the hottest days to can. It would be SO hot that it would be a "transcedental" experience - and accompanied by LOTS of ice - cold beer....
> >
> > Couldn't do that now, I'd surely croak...
> >

> I have grandma's old huge enamel pot with the wire rack in the bottom.
> I might pick up some Ball jars and try my hand at canning this year. I
> planted a dozen tomato plants, so why not?



I made a lot of stuff for holiday giving. Brandied cherries, pickled okra, chow - chow, and dilly beans were always a HUGE hit, makes a unique gift. I'd use pint jars for the gifts, a recipient would get two or more jars, fancily garnished with a nice ribbon and labelled...peeps would "oooh" and "aaah" when receiving...

Cantaloupe and watermelon pickles are great, and also something "unusual",...

You can also make refrigerator pickles, right now I am using up some fresh and frozen stuff to make corn relish (red/green peppers, celery, red onion, sliced garlic, frozen corn, diced cukes), I always have this on hand...very easy to make...

Wiki: "How do you make refrigerator pickles?

How to Make Refrigerator Pickles: Step 1: Fill clean jar with thinly sliced cucumbers (ideally Kirby). Step 2: Stir brine ingredients together (kosher salt, vinegar and chopped fresh dill) and pour over cucumber slices. Step 3: Close jar lid and shake to distribute brine. Refrigerate for at least 6 hours then enjoy!"

The only "dud" I had was ketchup, tried several times, but the result was always poor, this despite following exact directions...

It is *critical* you follow canning safety guidelines (but you surely already know that). I once made a batch of tomatoes that caused several of us (we were at a cookout) to become quite ill, in hindsight we were very lucky that it was not worse...

Go he

https://www.cdc.gov/foodsafety/commu...-botulism.html

Home Canning and Botulism

Home canning is an excellent way to preserve garden produce and share it with family and friends, but it can be risky€”or even deadly€”if not done correctly and safely.

Its summertime and time to harvest the delicious produce youve been growing. You may be thinking about home canning your garden goodies to preserve them. But beware! If home canning is not done the proper way, your canned vegetables and fruits (as well as other foods, including meats and seafood) could cause botulism..."


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GM wrote:
> It is*critical* you follow canning safety guidelines (but you surely already know that). I once made a batch of tomatoes that caused several of us (we were at a cookout) to become quite ill, in hindsight we were very lucky that it was not worse...


What was the root cause?

It's pretty hard to screw up tomatoes, as they are acidic.
(pressure canner isn't needed). Boiling water bath works fine.




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Hank Rogers wrote:

> GM wrote:
> > It is*critical* you follow canning safety guidelines (but you surely already know that). I once made a batch of tomatoes that caused several of us (we were at a cookout) to become quite ill, in hindsight we were very lucky that it was not worse...

>
> What was the root cause?
>
> It's pretty hard to screw up tomatoes, as they are acidic.
> (pressure canner isn't needed). Boiling water bath works fine.



I dunno what happened...I used a boiling water bath...

Only sick for a day, but we got severe intestinal upset and jaundice. This happened at the cookout, and also a bit later with another jar, with just myself...

Just found this. other sites also recommend pressure canning, not a hot water bath:

https://www.foodnetwork.com/how-to/a...o-can-tomatoes

"...Unlike pickles and most fruit preserves, tomatoes are comparatively low in acidity, and so must be acidified in order to be canned using the standard water-bath method. Foods with a pH higher than 4.6 can harbor botulism bacteria spores; tomatoes are generally right around 4.5, so you're playing with fire if you do not bring the acid level up. Moreover, if you add anything to your tomatoes, such as onions, garlic or basil, you are lowering the acidity further.

Water boils at 212 degrees Farenheit at sea level; this is not sufficient to kill off the botulism spores. By raising the pressure in the cooking environment, you raise the temperature at which water boils. By raising the pressure to 11 pounds, you raise the boiling temperature to about 240 degrees Farenheit, which will kill off the spores.

So, if you intend to do much canning of low-acid foods such as tomatoes, stocks or meats, you may want to invest in a pressure canner. Modern pressure canners are easy and exceedingly safe to use, and you will be able to rest easy knowing that your canned goods are free of toxins..."

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On Monday, June 14, 2021 at 9:45:44 AM UTC-10, cshenk wrote:
> Michael Trew wrote:
>
> > On 6/13/2021 1:26 PM, John Kuthe wrote:
> > > On Saturday, June 12, 2021 at 11:29:00 PM UTC-5, Michael Trew wrote:
> > > > I'm not sure what recently compelled me to make a double recipe
> > > > of toll house cookies, but it somehow came out to be about 9
> > > > dozen cookies. In a house without A/C on a near 90 degree day,
> > > > that wasn't my smartest idea.
> > > >
> > > > I decided to turn off the the pilot lights on my stove to save on
> > > > heat in the kitchen, and supper was just a cold chipped chopped
> > > > ham and provolone sandwich. The humidity has my fridge
> > > > desperately needing defrosted as well. I suppose it's all better
> > > > than snow, however.
> > >
> > > I turn of my stove's pilot light permanently! I went all ELECTRIC!
> > > And I have my gas company come and pull their gas meter from my
> > > house!
> > >
> > > John Kuthe, RN, BSN...

> >
> > Natural gas is dirt cheap around here, I'll keep my stove. I don't
> > care about the oven, other than the cost, but I hate cooking on an
> > electric stove top.

> Same here but it's all in what you are used to. Gas is far more
> flexible than electric or induction.


It's not a good option for homes with kids and for elderly cooks. When I was a kid, I used to always singe the hairs on my arms when the gas range would flare-up. I thought that was pretty funny. You can't ever forget that smell. That said, I'll probably move into my parent's house sooner or later and will end up cooking with gas. I'll have to keep my wits about me though.
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On Mon, 14 Jun 2021 14:32:48 -0700 (PDT), dsi1
> wrote:

>On Monday, June 14, 2021 at 9:45:44 AM UTC-10, cshenk wrote:
>> Michael Trew wrote:
>>
>> > On 6/13/2021 1:26 PM, John Kuthe wrote:
>> > > On Saturday, June 12, 2021 at 11:29:00 PM UTC-5, Michael Trew wrote:
>> > > > I'm not sure what recently compelled me to make a double recipe
>> > > > of toll house cookies, but it somehow came out to be about 9
>> > > > dozen cookies. In a house without A/C on a near 90 degree day,
>> > > > that wasn't my smartest idea.
>> > > >
>> > > > I decided to turn off the the pilot lights on my stove to save on
>> > > > heat in the kitchen, and supper was just a cold chipped chopped
>> > > > ham and provolone sandwich. The humidity has my fridge
>> > > > desperately needing defrosted as well. I suppose it's all better
>> > > > than snow, however.
>> > >
>> > > I turn of my stove's pilot light permanently! I went all ELECTRIC!
>> > > And I have my gas company come and pull their gas meter from my
>> > > house!
>> > >
>> > > John Kuthe, RN, BSN...
>> >
>> > Natural gas is dirt cheap around here, I'll keep my stove. I don't
>> > care about the oven, other than the cost, but I hate cooking on an
>> > electric stove top.

>> Same here but it's all in what you are used to. Gas is far more
>> flexible than electric or induction.

>
>It's not a good option for homes with kids and for elderly cooks. When I was a kid, I used to always singe the hairs on my arms when the gas range would flare-up. I thought that was pretty funny. You can't ever forget that smell. That said, I'll probably move into my parent's house sooner or later and will end up cooking with gas. I'll have to keep my wits about me though.

Ask them, theyre here. "You can stop saying that now. Thank you."
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On Mon, 14 Jun 2021 14:45:35 -0500, "cshenk"
> wrote:

>Michael Trew wrote:
>
>> On 6/13/2021 1:26 PM, John Kuthe wrote:
>> > On Saturday, June 12, 2021 at 11:29:00 PM UTC-5, Michael Trew wrote:
>> > > I'm not sure what recently compelled me to make a double recipe
>> > > of toll house cookies, but it somehow came out to be about 9
>> > > dozen cookies. In a house without A/C on a near 90 degree day,
>> > > that wasn't my smartest idea.
>> > >
>> > > I decided to turn off the the pilot lights on my stove to save on
>> > > heat in the kitchen, and supper was just a cold chipped chopped
>> > > ham and provolone sandwich. The humidity has my fridge
>> > > desperately needing defrosted as well. I suppose it's all better
>> > > than snow, however.
>> >
>> > I turn of my stove's pilot light permanently! I went all ELECTRIC!
>> > And I have my gas company come and pull their gas meter from my
>> > house!
>> >
>> > John Kuthe, RN, BSN...

>>
>> Natural gas is dirt cheap around here, I'll keep my stove. I don't
>> care about the oven, other than the cost, but I hate cooking on an
>> electric stove top.

>
>Same here but it's all in what you are used to. Gas is far more
>flexible than electric or induction.

Ask them, theyre here. "You can stop saying that now. Thank you."
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On Mon, 14 Jun 2021 14:04:28 -0500, "cshenk"
> wrote:

>Michael Trew wrote:
>
>> On 6/13/2021 12:52 AM, GM wrote:
>> > On Saturday, June 12, 2021 at 11:29:00 PM UTC-5, Michael Trew wrote:
>> > > I'm not sure what recently compelled me to make a double recipe
>> > > of toll house cookies, but it somehow came out to be about 9
>> > > dozen cookies. In a house without A/C on a near 90 degree day,
>> > > that wasn't my smartest idea.
>> > >
>> > > I decided to turn off the the pilot lights on my stove to save on
>> > > heat in the kitchen, and supper was just a cold chipped chopped
>> > > ham and provolone sandwich. The humidity has my fridge
>> > > desperately needing defrosted as well. I suppose it's all better
>> > > than snow, however.
>> >
>> >
>> > Years ago I used to do a lot of home canning. I didn't have A/C,
>> > and I'd often choose the hottest days to can. It would be SO hot
>> > that it would be a "transcedental" experience - and accompanied by
>> > LOTS of ice - cold beer...
>> >
>> > Couldn't do that now, I'd surely croak...
>> >

>>
>> I have grandma's old huge enamel pot with the wire rack in the
>> bottom. I might pick up some Ball jars and try my hand at canning
>> this year. I planted a dozen tomato plants, so why not?

>
>I've done jellies, jams and pickles at times. Fun to do.

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On Mon, 14 Jun 2021 11:28:10 -0400, Sheldon Martin wrote:

> people with their roof covered with
> solar panels are inviting solar rays.


You're thinking about 'skylight' roof windows, not solar panels.


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On Monday, June 14, 2021 at 3:27:00 PM UTC-5, GM wrote:
>
> Just found this. other sites also recommend pressure canning, not a hot water bath:
>
> https://www.foodnetwork.com/how-to/a...o-can-tomatoes
>
> "...Unlike pickles and most fruit preserves, tomatoes are comparatively low in acidity, and so must be acidified in order to be canned using the standard water-bath method. Foods with a pH higher than 4.6 can harbor botulism bacteria spores; tomatoes are generally right around 4.5, so you're playing with fire if you do not bring the acid level up. Moreover, if you add anything to your tomatoes, such as onions, garlic or basil, you are lowering the acidity further.
>
> GM
>

My grandmother did ALL her canning using the water bath method on a wood-
burning stove. Never, ever a bad jar, and no one ever got sick. My mother did
all her canning using a large Burpee pressure canner/cooker on a gas stove.
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On 6/13/2021 12:29 AM, Michael Trew wrote:
> I'm not sure what recently compelled me to make a double recipe of toll
> house cookies, but it somehow came out to be about 9 dozen cookies.Â* In
> a house without A/C on a near 90 degree day, that wasn't my smartest idea.
>

(snippage)
Didn't you recently say you have a window AC unit but haven't yet
installed it or do I have you confused with someone else? If you do
have a window AC why wouldn't you already have it in place if it's
nearly 90F outside?

Jill
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dsi1 wrote:

> On Monday, June 14, 2021 at 9:45:44 AM UTC-10, cshenk wrote:
> > Michael Trew wrote:
> >
> > > On 6/13/2021 1:26 PM, John Kuthe wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, June 12, 2021 at 11:29:00 PM UTC-5, Michael Trew
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > I'm not sure what recently compelled me to make a double
> > > > > recipe of toll house cookies, but it somehow came out to be
> > > > > about 9 dozen cookies. In a house without A/C on a near 90
> > > > > degree day, that wasn't my smartest idea.
> > > > >
> > > > > I decided to turn off the the pilot lights on my stove to
> > > > > save on heat in the kitchen, and supper was just a cold
> > > > > chipped chopped ham and provolone sandwich. The humidity has
> > > > > my fridge desperately needing defrosted as well. I suppose
> > > > > it's all better than snow, however.
> > > >
> > > > I turn of my stove's pilot light permanently! I went all
> > > > ELECTRIC! And I have my gas company come and pull their gas
> > > > meter from my house!
> > > >
> > > > John Kuthe, RN, BSN...
> > >
> > > Natural gas is dirt cheap around here, I'll keep my stove. I
> > > don't care about the oven, other than the cost, but I hate
> > > cooking on an electric stove top.

> > Same here but it's all in what you are used to. Gas is far more
> > flexible than electric or induction.

>
> It's not a good option for homes with kids and for elderly cooks.
> When I was a kid, I used to always singe the hairs on my arms when
> the gas range would flare-up. I thought that was pretty funny. You
> can't ever forget that smell. That said, I'll probably move into my
> parent's house sooner or later and will end up cooking with gas. I'll
> have to keep my wits about me though.


It's no better nor worse than other cooking methods for safety.
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On 6/14/2021 3:45 PM, cshenk wrote:
> Michael Trew wrote:
>
>> On 6/13/2021 1:26 PM, John Kuthe wrote:
>>> On Saturday, June 12, 2021 at 11:29:00 PM UTC-5, Michael Trew wrote:
>>>> I'm not sure what recently compelled me to make a double recipe
>>>> of toll house cookies, but it somehow came out to be about 9
>>>> dozen cookies. In a house without A/C on a near 90 degree day,
>>>> that wasn't my smartest idea.
>>>>
>>>> I decided to turn off the the pilot lights on my stove to save on
>>>> heat in the kitchen, and supper was just a cold chipped chopped
>>>> ham and provolone sandwich. The humidity has my fridge
>>>> desperately needing defrosted as well. I suppose it's all better
>>>> than snow, however.
>>>
>>> I turn of my stove's pilot light permanently! I went all ELECTRIC!
>>> And I have my gas company come and pull their gas meter from my
>>> house!
>>>
>>> John Kuthe, RN, BSN...

>>
>> Natural gas is dirt cheap around here, I'll keep my stove. I don't
>> care about the oven, other than the cost, but I hate cooking on an
>> electric stove top.

>
> Same here but it's all in what you are used to. Gas is far more
> flexible than electric or induction.


I'd never want induction. If my cast iron pans don't work, it's a
useless stove to me.
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On 6/14/2021 7:50 PM, jmcquown wrote:
> On 6/13/2021 12:29 AM, Michael Trew wrote:
>> I'm not sure what recently compelled me to make a double recipe of
>> toll house cookies, but it somehow came out to be about 9 dozen
>> cookies. In a house without A/C on a near 90 degree day, that wasn't
>> my smartest idea.
>>

> (snippage)
> Didn't you recently say you have a window AC unit but haven't yet
> installed it or do I have you confused with someone else? If you do have
> a window AC why wouldn't you already have it in place if it's nearly 90F
> outside?
>
> Jill


I finally just put it in. It's an insanely heavy 1960's solid metal
Gibson unit. I only used it to test it again. Honestly, I didn't want
to put it in due to the sheer weight of the thing. It's easily 150
pounds.

Not that it's any particularly more electric hungry than your next unit
(maybe a bit more so), I just don't like to run it unless I'm positively
miserable. I guess I'm just that cheap. The rest of this week tops out
in the high 70's - which is my favorite weather.


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On Monday, June 14, 2021 at 2:18:55 PM UTC-10, cshenk wrote:
> dsi1 wrote:
>
> > On Monday, June 14, 2021 at 9:45:44 AM UTC-10, cshenk wrote:
> > > Michael Trew wrote:
> > >
> > > > On 6/13/2021 1:26 PM, John Kuthe wrote:
> > > > > On Saturday, June 12, 2021 at 11:29:00 PM UTC-5, Michael Trew
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > I'm not sure what recently compelled me to make a double
> > > > > > recipe of toll house cookies, but it somehow came out to be
> > > > > > about 9 dozen cookies. In a house without A/C on a near 90
> > > > > > degree day, that wasn't my smartest idea.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I decided to turn off the the pilot lights on my stove to
> > > > > > save on heat in the kitchen, and supper was just a cold
> > > > > > chipped chopped ham and provolone sandwich. The humidity has
> > > > > > my fridge desperately needing defrosted as well. I suppose
> > > > > > it's all better than snow, however.
> > > > >
> > > > > I turn of my stove's pilot light permanently! I went all
> > > > > ELECTRIC! And I have my gas company come and pull their gas
> > > > > meter from my house!
> > > > >
> > > > > John Kuthe, RN, BSN...
> > > >
> > > > Natural gas is dirt cheap around here, I'll keep my stove. I
> > > > don't care about the oven, other than the cost, but I hate
> > > > cooking on an electric stove top.
> > > Same here but it's all in what you are used to. Gas is far more
> > > flexible than electric or induction.

> >
> > It's not a good option for homes with kids and for elderly cooks.
> > When I was a kid, I used to always singe the hairs on my arms when
> > the gas range would flare-up. I thought that was pretty funny. You
> > can't ever forget that smell. That said, I'll probably move into my
> > parent's house sooner or later and will end up cooking with gas. I'll
> > have to keep my wits about me though.

> It's no better nor worse than other cooking methods for safety.


That wouldn't make any sense to people that have used induction ranges. With a gas stove, I could ignite granny in seconds. With an induction unit, you probably wouldn't be able to figure out how to produce a flame. Making a flame is the one thing that induction ranges really suck at. I might be able to produce a flame by heating up a pan until very hot and then dumping alcohol in the pan. Would that work? I can't say.
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On Monday, June 14, 2021 at 6:40:50 PM UTC-10, Michael Trew wrote:
> On 6/14/2021 3:45 PM, cshenk wrote:
> > Michael Trew wrote:
> >
> >> On 6/13/2021 1:26 PM, John Kuthe wrote:
> >>> On Saturday, June 12, 2021 at 11:29:00 PM UTC-5, Michael Trew wrote:
> >>>> I'm not sure what recently compelled me to make a double recipe
> >>>> of toll house cookies, but it somehow came out to be about 9
> >>>> dozen cookies. In a house without A/C on a near 90 degree day,
> >>>> that wasn't my smartest idea.
> >>>>
> >>>> I decided to turn off the the pilot lights on my stove to save on
> >>>> heat in the kitchen, and supper was just a cold chipped chopped
> >>>> ham and provolone sandwich. The humidity has my fridge
> >>>> desperately needing defrosted as well. I suppose it's all better
> >>>> than snow, however.
> >>>
> >>> I turn of my stove's pilot light permanently! I went all ELECTRIC!
> >>> And I have my gas company come and pull their gas meter from my
> >>> house!
> >>>
> >>> John Kuthe, RN, BSN...
> >>
> >> Natural gas is dirt cheap around here, I'll keep my stove. I don't
> >> care about the oven, other than the cost, but I hate cooking on an
> >> electric stove top.

> >
> > Same here but it's all in what you are used to. Gas is far more
> > flexible than electric or induction.

> I'd never want induction. If my cast iron pans don't work, it's a
> useless stove to me.


Cast iron works great with induction. My guess is that an induction range works faster than gas because you're not heating the pan by conduction. The pan actually acts as a heating element. These days there's no need to use cast iron. Carbon steel pans are lighter and bear a cooking surface uncannily similar to cast iron.
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On Monday, June 14, 2021 at 5:32:52 PM UTC-4, dsi1 wrote:
> On Monday, June 14, 2021 at 9:45:44 AM UTC-10, cshenk wrote:
> > Michael Trew wrote:
> >
> > > On 6/13/2021 1:26 PM, John Kuthe wrote:
> > > > On Saturday, June 12, 2021 at 11:29:00 PM UTC-5, Michael Trew wrote:
> > > > > I'm not sure what recently compelled me to make a double recipe
> > > > > of toll house cookies, but it somehow came out to be about 9
> > > > > dozen cookies. In a house without A/C on a near 90 degree day,
> > > > > that wasn't my smartest idea.
> > > > >
> > > > > I decided to turn off the the pilot lights on my stove to save on
> > > > > heat in the kitchen, and supper was just a cold chipped chopped
> > > > > ham and provolone sandwich. The humidity has my fridge
> > > > > desperately needing defrosted as well. I suppose it's all better
> > > > > than snow, however.
> > > >
> > > > I turn of my stove's pilot light permanently! I went all ELECTRIC!
> > > > And I have my gas company come and pull their gas meter from my
> > > > house!
> > > >
> > > > John Kuthe, RN, BSN...
> > >
> > > Natural gas is dirt cheap around here, I'll keep my stove. I don't
> > > care about the oven, other than the cost, but I hate cooking on an
> > > electric stove top.

> > Same here but it's all in what you are used to. Gas is far more
> > flexible than electric or induction.

> It's not a good option for homes with kids and for elderly cooks.


Really? Millions of kids have grown up in houses with gas ranges.
Millions of elderly cooks use gas ranges.

I think you're projecting your own fears.

Cindy Hamilton
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On Monday, June 14, 2021 at 11:28:16 AM UTC-4, Sheldon wrote:

> Electric powered vehicles save nothing, in fact they waste energy and
> pollute heavily from burning coal. Those heavy transmission wires
> used to charge EVs cause cancer. I'd not be surprised to learn that
> driving an electric vehicle is a carsogenic, as are solar panels...


Little early to be hitting the Crystal Palace, isn't it? Why should
_driving_ an electric vehicle be more carcinogenic than driving
any other vehicle?

> any Dermatologist will tell you how exposure to sunlight causes skin
> cancer... people with their roof covered with solar panels are
> inviting solar rays.


Inviting them where? Into the solar panel?

> Electric vehicles have been around for a long time, mostly as delivery
> vans in large cities, especially diaper service delivery(Pilgrim). So
> now disposables are used, how is that not pollution? The word
> 'disposable' is synonimous with 'pollution'.


Even lead-acid batteries have a finite life and must be disposed of
afterward.

Cindy Hamilton
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On Tue, 15 Jun 2021 01:39:33 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
> wrote:

>On Monday, June 14, 2021 at 11:28:16 AM UTC-4, Sheldon wrote:
>
>> Electric powered vehicles save nothing, in fact they waste energy and
>> pollute heavily from burning coal. Those heavy transmission wires
>> used to charge EVs cause cancer. I'd not be surprised to learn that
>> driving an electric vehicle is a carsogenic, as are solar panels...

>
>Little early to be hitting the Crystal Palace, isn't it? Why should
>_driving_ an electric vehicle be more carcinogenic than driving
>any other vehicle?
>
>> any Dermatologist will tell you how exposure to sunlight causes skin
>> cancer... people with their roof covered with solar panels are
>> inviting solar rays.

>
>Inviting them where? Into the solar panel?
>
>> Electric vehicles have been around for a long time, mostly as delivery
>> vans in large cities, especially diaper service delivery(Pilgrim). So
>> now disposables are used, how is that not pollution? The word
>> 'disposable' is synonimous with 'pollution'.

>
>Even lead-acid batteries have a finite life and must be disposed of
>afterward.


Sheldon talked so much nonsense it's hard to decide where to begin.

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On 15/06/2021 05:40, Michael Trew wrote:

> I'd never want induction.Â* If my cast iron pans don't work, it's a
> useless stove to me.


I use a gas cooktop, but also have a single-burner induction unit. My
cast iron pans work perfectly on the induction burner. I use a disc of
baking parchment or one of those round silicone baking mats, between the
burner and the cast iron, to avoid scratching the surface.

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On Tuesday, June 15, 2021 at 5:27:49 AM UTC-4, dsi1 wrote:
> On Monday, June 14, 2021 at 10:35:39 PM UTC-10, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> > On Monday, June 14, 2021 at 5:32:52 PM UTC-4, dsi1 wrote:
> > > On Monday, June 14, 2021 at 9:45:44 AM UTC-10, cshenk wrote:
> > > > Michael Trew wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On 6/13/2021 1:26 PM, John Kuthe wrote:
> > > > > > On Saturday, June 12, 2021 at 11:29:00 PM UTC-5, Michael Trew wrote:
> > > > > > > I'm not sure what recently compelled me to make a double recipe
> > > > > > > of toll house cookies, but it somehow came out to be about 9
> > > > > > > dozen cookies. In a house without A/C on a near 90 degree day,
> > > > > > > that wasn't my smartest idea.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I decided to turn off the the pilot lights on my stove to save on
> > > > > > > heat in the kitchen, and supper was just a cold chipped chopped
> > > > > > > ham and provolone sandwich. The humidity has my fridge
> > > > > > > desperately needing defrosted as well. I suppose it's all better
> > > > > > > than snow, however.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I turn of my stove's pilot light permanently! I went all ELECTRIC!
> > > > > > And I have my gas company come and pull their gas meter from my
> > > > > > house!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > John Kuthe, RN, BSN...
> > > > >
> > > > > Natural gas is dirt cheap around here, I'll keep my stove. I don't
> > > > > care about the oven, other than the cost, but I hate cooking on an
> > > > > electric stove top.
> > > > Same here but it's all in what you are used to. Gas is far more
> > > > flexible than electric or induction.
> > > It's not a good option for homes with kids and for elderly cooks.

> > Really? Millions of kids have grown up in houses with gas ranges.
> > Millions of elderly cooks use gas ranges.
> >
> > I think you're projecting your own fears.
> >
> > Cindy Hamilton

> Around 180,000 house fires start in the kitchen every year. Induction ranges are inherently safer because the cooktops do not heat up. Do the math. You're obviously projecting your own ignorance.


How many of those house fires are directly related to gas cooktops?

How many of them are related to dumbass behaviors like putting wet food
into hot oil and creating a grease fire? How many of them are electrical
fires?

Your facile and poorly researched comment is worthless.

Cindy Hamilton
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On Monday, June 14, 2021 at 11:47:06 PM UTC-10, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Tuesday, June 15, 2021 at 5:27:49 AM UTC-4, dsi1 wrote:
> > On Monday, June 14, 2021 at 10:35:39 PM UTC-10, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> > > On Monday, June 14, 2021 at 5:32:52 PM UTC-4, dsi1 wrote:
> > > > On Monday, June 14, 2021 at 9:45:44 AM UTC-10, cshenk wrote:
> > > > > Michael Trew wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > On 6/13/2021 1:26 PM, John Kuthe wrote:
> > > > > > > On Saturday, June 12, 2021 at 11:29:00 PM UTC-5, Michael Trew wrote:
> > > > > > > > I'm not sure what recently compelled me to make a double recipe
> > > > > > > > of toll house cookies, but it somehow came out to be about 9
> > > > > > > > dozen cookies. In a house without A/C on a near 90 degree day,
> > > > > > > > that wasn't my smartest idea.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I decided to turn off the the pilot lights on my stove to save on
> > > > > > > > heat in the kitchen, and supper was just a cold chipped chopped
> > > > > > > > ham and provolone sandwich. The humidity has my fridge
> > > > > > > > desperately needing defrosted as well. I suppose it's all better
> > > > > > > > than snow, however.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I turn of my stove's pilot light permanently! I went all ELECTRIC!
> > > > > > > And I have my gas company come and pull their gas meter from my
> > > > > > > house!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > John Kuthe, RN, BSN...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Natural gas is dirt cheap around here, I'll keep my stove. I don't
> > > > > > care about the oven, other than the cost, but I hate cooking on an
> > > > > > electric stove top.
> > > > > Same here but it's all in what you are used to. Gas is far more
> > > > > flexible than electric or induction.
> > > > It's not a good option for homes with kids and for elderly cooks.
> > > Really? Millions of kids have grown up in houses with gas ranges.
> > > Millions of elderly cooks use gas ranges.
> > >
> > > I think you're projecting your own fears.
> > >
> > > Cindy Hamilton

> > Around 180,000 house fires start in the kitchen every year. Induction ranges are inherently safer because the cooktops do not heat up. Do the math.. You're obviously projecting your own ignorance.

> How many of those house fires are directly related to gas cooktops?
>
> How many of them are related to dumbass behaviors like putting wet food
> into hot oil and creating a grease fire? How many of them are electrical
> fires?
>
> Your facile and poorly researched comment is worthless.
>
> Cindy Hamilton


I can't tell you the breakdown of fires caused by gas and electric burners. The reality is that you can easily light a combustible material with gas or electric burners. Try it yourself if you think it's unlikely. You can't do that with an induction cooktop. This is just another one of your idiotic gamesmanship ploys. Yoose gets the last move - count me out of your dumb game.
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On Tuesday, June 15, 2021 at 6:08:16 AM UTC-4, dsi1 wrote:
> On Monday, June 14, 2021 at 11:47:06 PM UTC-10, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> > On Tuesday, June 15, 2021 at 5:27:49 AM UTC-4, dsi1 wrote:
> > > On Monday, June 14, 2021 at 10:35:39 PM UTC-10, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> > > > On Monday, June 14, 2021 at 5:32:52 PM UTC-4, dsi1 wrote:
> > > > > On Monday, June 14, 2021 at 9:45:44 AM UTC-10, cshenk wrote:
> > > > > > Michael Trew wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > On 6/13/2021 1:26 PM, John Kuthe wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Saturday, June 12, 2021 at 11:29:00 PM UTC-5, Michael Trew wrote:
> > > > > > > > > I'm not sure what recently compelled me to make a double recipe
> > > > > > > > > of toll house cookies, but it somehow came out to be about 9
> > > > > > > > > dozen cookies. In a house without A/C on a near 90 degree day,
> > > > > > > > > that wasn't my smartest idea.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I decided to turn off the the pilot lights on my stove to save on
> > > > > > > > > heat in the kitchen, and supper was just a cold chipped chopped
> > > > > > > > > ham and provolone sandwich. The humidity has my fridge
> > > > > > > > > desperately needing defrosted as well. I suppose it's all better
> > > > > > > > > than snow, however.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I turn of my stove's pilot light permanently! I went all ELECTRIC!
> > > > > > > > And I have my gas company come and pull their gas meter from my
> > > > > > > > house!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > John Kuthe, RN, BSN...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Natural gas is dirt cheap around here, I'll keep my stove. I don't
> > > > > > > care about the oven, other than the cost, but I hate cooking on an
> > > > > > > electric stove top.
> > > > > > Same here but it's all in what you are used to. Gas is far more
> > > > > > flexible than electric or induction.
> > > > > It's not a good option for homes with kids and for elderly cooks.
> > > > Really? Millions of kids have grown up in houses with gas ranges.
> > > > Millions of elderly cooks use gas ranges.
> > > >
> > > > I think you're projecting your own fears.
> > > >
> > > > Cindy Hamilton
> > > Around 180,000 house fires start in the kitchen every year. Induction ranges are inherently safer because the cooktops do not heat up. Do the math. You're obviously projecting your own ignorance.

> > How many of those house fires are directly related to gas cooktops?
> >
> > How many of them are related to dumbass behaviors like putting wet food
> > into hot oil and creating a grease fire? How many of them are electrical
> > fires?
> >
> > Your facile and poorly researched comment is worthless.
> >
> > Cindy Hamilton

> I can't tell you the breakdown of fires caused by gas and electric burners. The reality is that you can easily light a combustible material with gas or electric burners. Try it yourself if you think it's unlikely. You can't do that with an induction cooktop. This is just another one of your idiotic gamesmanship ploys. Yoose gets the last move - count me out of your dumb game.


Ok. Here's my last move.

I have used gas stoves all my life. I've occasionally caused a potholder to smolder.
Since we've dismantled our kitchen for remodeling, I've been using an induction burner.
I'm well aware of its characteristics.

Fires are less likely with an induction cooktop. The risk with other cooktops is
small enough that they're not outlawing them. Your fears are unfounded
and overblown.

Cindy Hamilton
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On Sunday, June 13, 2021 at 12:19:45 PM UTC-4, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Sunday, June 13, 2021 at 10:11:36 AM UTC-4, bruce bowser wrote:
> > On Sunday, June 13, 2021 at 12:52:31 AM UTC-4, GM wrote:
> > > On Saturday, June 12, 2021 at 11:29:00 PM UTC-5, Michael Trew wrote:
> > > > I'm not sure what recently compelled me to make a double recipe of toll
> > > > house cookies, but it somehow came out to be about 9 dozen cookies. In
> > > > a house without A/C on a near 90 degree day, that wasn't my smartest idea.
> > > >
> > > > I decided to turn off the the pilot lights on my stove to save on heat
> > > > in the kitchen, and supper was just a cold chipped chopped ham and
> > > > provolone sandwich. The humidity has my fridge desperately needing
> > > > defrosted as well. I suppose it's all better than snow, however.
> > > Years ago I used to do a lot of home canning. I didn't have A/C, and I'd often choose the hottest days to can. It would be SO hot that it would be a "transcedental" experience - and accompanied by LOTS of ice - cold beer...
> > >
> > > Couldn't do that now, I'd surely croak...

> > Oh so now, you choose to go to the stores like a normal person.

>
> What's abnormal about canning? I think almost everybody here has canned
> something, sometime.


Because - if you don't mind Cindy - because fooling with unboxing, filling and lifting cans takes time away from drinking vodka.


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dsi1 wrote:
> On Monday, June 14, 2021 at 11:47:06 PM UTC-10, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> > On Tuesday, June 15, 2021 at 5:27:49 AM UTC-4, dsi1 wrote:
> > > On Monday, June 14, 2021 at 10:35:39 PM UTC-10, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> > > > On Monday, June 14, 2021 at 5:32:52 PM UTC-4, dsi1 wrote:
> > > > > On Monday, June 14, 2021 at 9:45:44 AM UTC-10, cshenk wrote:
> > > > > > Michael Trew wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > On 6/13/2021 1:26 PM, John Kuthe wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Saturday, June 12, 2021 at 11:29:00 PM UTC-5, Michael Trew wrote:
> > > > > > > > > I'm not sure what recently compelled me to make a double recipe
> > > > > > > > > of toll house cookies, but it somehow came out to be about 9
> > > > > > > > > dozen cookies. In a house without A/C on a near 90 degree day,
> > > > > > > > > that wasn't my smartest idea.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I decided to turn off the the pilot lights on my stove to save on
> > > > > > > > > heat in the kitchen, and supper was just a cold chipped chopped
> > > > > > > > > ham and provolone sandwich. The humidity has my fridge
> > > > > > > > > desperately needing defrosted as well. I suppose it's all better
> > > > > > > > > than snow, however.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I turn of my stove's pilot light permanently! I went all ELECTRIC!
> > > > > > > > And I have my gas company come and pull their gas meter from my
> > > > > > > > house!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > John Kuthe, RN, BSN...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Natural gas is dirt cheap around here, I'll keep my stove. I don't
> > > > > > > care about the oven, other than the cost, but I hate cooking on an
> > > > > > > electric stove top.
> > > > > > Same here but it's all in what you are used to. Gas is far more
> > > > > > flexible than electric or induction.
> > > > > It's not a good option for homes with kids and for elderly cooks.
> > > > Really? Millions of kids have grown up in houses with gas ranges.
> > > > Millions of elderly cooks use gas ranges.
> > > >
> > > > I think you're projecting your own fears.
> > > >
> > > > Cindy Hamilton
> > > Around 180,000 house fires start in the kitchen every year. Induction ranges are inherently safer because the cooktops do not heat up. Do the math. You're obviously projecting your own ignorance.

> > How many of those house fires are directly related to gas cooktops?
> >
> > How many of them are related to dumbass behaviors like putting wet food
> > into hot oil and creating a grease fire? How many of them are electrical
> > fires?
> >
> > Your facile and poorly researched comment is worthless.
> >
> > Cindy Hamilton

> I can't tell you the breakdown of fires caused by gas and electric burners. The reality is that you can easily light a combustible material with gas or electric burners. Try it yourself if you think it's unlikely. You can't do that with an induction cooktop. This is just another one of your idiotic gamesmanship ploys. Yoose gets the last move - count me out of your dumb game.



Once again, Poi Boi, we have NO choice but to put a LARGE RED "F" beside your name...

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On Tue, 15 Jun 2021 06:13:56 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
> wrote:

>On Tuesday, June 15, 2021 at 6:08:16 AM UTC-4, dsi1 wrote:
>> On Monday, June 14, 2021 at 11:47:06 PM UTC-10, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>> > On Tuesday, June 15, 2021 at 5:27:49 AM UTC-4, dsi1 wrote:
>> > > On Monday, June 14, 2021 at 10:35:39 PM UTC-10, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
>> > > > On Monday, June 14, 2021 at 5:32:52 PM UTC-4, dsi1 wrote:
>> > > > > On Monday, June 14, 2021 at 9:45:44 AM UTC-10, cshenk wrote:
>> > > > > > Michael Trew wrote:
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > > On 6/13/2021 1:26 PM, John Kuthe wrote:
>> > > > > > > > On Saturday, June 12, 2021 at 11:29:00 PM UTC-5, Michael Trew wrote:
>> > > > > > > > > I'm not sure what recently compelled me to make a double recipe
>> > > > > > > > > of toll house cookies, but it somehow came out to be about 9
>> > > > > > > > > dozen cookies. In a house without A/C on a near 90 degree day,
>> > > > > > > > > that wasn't my smartest idea.
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > I decided to turn off the the pilot lights on my stove to save on
>> > > > > > > > > heat in the kitchen, and supper was just a cold chipped chopped
>> > > > > > > > > ham and provolone sandwich. The humidity has my fridge
>> > > > > > > > > desperately needing defrosted as well. I suppose it's all better
>> > > > > > > > > than snow, however.
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > I turn of my stove's pilot light permanently! I went all ELECTRIC!
>> > > > > > > > And I have my gas company come and pull their gas meter from my
>> > > > > > > > house!
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > John Kuthe, RN, BSN...
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Natural gas is dirt cheap around here, I'll keep my stove. I don't
>> > > > > > > care about the oven, other than the cost, but I hate cooking on an
>> > > > > > > electric stove top.
>> > > > > > Same here but it's all in what you are used to. Gas is far more
>> > > > > > flexible than electric or induction.
>> > > > > It's not a good option for homes with kids and for elderly cooks.
>> > > > Really? Millions of kids have grown up in houses with gas ranges.
>> > > > Millions of elderly cooks use gas ranges.
>> > > >
>> > > > I think you're projecting your own fears.
>> > > >
>> > > > Cindy Hamilton
>> > > Around 180,000 house fires start in the kitchen every year. Induction ranges are inherently safer because the cooktops do not heat up. Do the math. You're obviously projecting your own ignorance.
>> > How many of those house fires are directly related to gas cooktops?
>> >
>> > How many of them are related to dumbass behaviors like putting wet food
>> > into hot oil and creating a grease fire? How many of them are electrical
>> > fires?
>> >
>> > Your facile and poorly researched comment is worthless.
>> >
>> > Cindy Hamilton

>> I can't tell you the breakdown of fires caused by gas and electric burners. The reality is that you can easily light a combustible material with gas or electric burners. Try it yourself if you think it's unlikely. You can't do that with an induction cooktop. This is just another one of your idiotic gamesmanship ploys. Yoose gets the last move - count me out of your dumb game.

>
>Ok. Here's my last move.
>
>I have used gas stoves all my life. I've occasionally caused a potholder to smolder.
>Since we've dismantled our kitchen for remodeling, I've been using an induction burner.
>I'm well aware of its characteristics.
>
>Fires are less likely with an induction cooktop. The risk with other cooktops is
>small enough that they're not outlawing them. Your fears are unfounded
>and overblown.
>
>Cindy Hamilton


It's easy enough to temporarily connect your stove to a propane
bottle... it's no big deal to switch between natural gas and propane
and then switch back, Or just cook with a propane grill that has a
side burner. Or in warm weather cook outdoors with a white gas camp
stove, very inexpensive to buy one.
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On Tuesday, June 15, 2021 at 9:43:11 AM UTC-4, Sheldon wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Jun 2021 06:13:56 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
> > wrote:
>
> >On Tuesday, June 15, 2021 at 6:08:16 AM UTC-4, dsi1 wrote:
> >> On Monday, June 14, 2021 at 11:47:06 PM UTC-10, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> >> > On Tuesday, June 15, 2021 at 5:27:49 AM UTC-4, dsi1 wrote:
> >> > > On Monday, June 14, 2021 at 10:35:39 PM UTC-10, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> >> > > > On Monday, June 14, 2021 at 5:32:52 PM UTC-4, dsi1 wrote:
> >> > > > > On Monday, June 14, 2021 at 9:45:44 AM UTC-10, cshenk wrote:
> >> > > > > > Michael Trew wrote:
> >> > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > On 6/13/2021 1:26 PM, John Kuthe wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > On Saturday, June 12, 2021 at 11:29:00 PM UTC-5, Michael Trew wrote:
> >> > > > > > > > > I'm not sure what recently compelled me to make a double recipe
> >> > > > > > > > > of toll house cookies, but it somehow came out to be about 9
> >> > > > > > > > > dozen cookies. In a house without A/C on a near 90 degree day,
> >> > > > > > > > > that wasn't my smartest idea.
> >> > > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > > I decided to turn off the the pilot lights on my stove to save on
> >> > > > > > > > > heat in the kitchen, and supper was just a cold chipped chopped
> >> > > > > > > > > ham and provolone sandwich. The humidity has my fridge
> >> > > > > > > > > desperately needing defrosted as well. I suppose it's all better
> >> > > > > > > > > than snow, however.
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > I turn of my stove's pilot light permanently! I went all ELECTRIC!
> >> > > > > > > > And I have my gas company come and pull their gas meter from my
> >> > > > > > > > house!
> >> > > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > > John Kuthe, RN, BSN...
> >> > > > > > >
> >> > > > > > > Natural gas is dirt cheap around here, I'll keep my stove. I don't
> >> > > > > > > care about the oven, other than the cost, but I hate cooking on an
> >> > > > > > > electric stove top.
> >> > > > > > Same here but it's all in what you are used to. Gas is far more
> >> > > > > > flexible than electric or induction.
> >> > > > > It's not a good option for homes with kids and for elderly cooks.
> >> > > > Really? Millions of kids have grown up in houses with gas ranges..
> >> > > > Millions of elderly cooks use gas ranges.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > I think you're projecting your own fears.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Cindy Hamilton
> >> > > Around 180,000 house fires start in the kitchen every year. Induction ranges are inherently safer because the cooktops do not heat up. Do the math. You're obviously projecting your own ignorance.
> >> > How many of those house fires are directly related to gas cooktops?
> >> >
> >> > How many of them are related to dumbass behaviors like putting wet food
> >> > into hot oil and creating a grease fire? How many of them are electrical
> >> > fires?
> >> >
> >> > Your facile and poorly researched comment is worthless.
> >> >
> >> > Cindy Hamilton
> >> I can't tell you the breakdown of fires caused by gas and electric burners. The reality is that you can easily light a combustible material with gas or electric burners. Try it yourself if you think it's unlikely. You can't do that with an induction cooktop. This is just another one of your idiotic gamesmanship ploys. Yoose gets the last move - count me out of your dumb game.

> >
> >Ok. Here's my last move.
> >
> >I have used gas stoves all my life. I've occasionally caused a potholder to smolder.
> >Since we've dismantled our kitchen for remodeling, I've been using an induction burner.
> >I'm well aware of its characteristics.
> >
> >Fires are less likely with an induction cooktop. The risk with other cooktops is
> >small enough that they're not outlawing them. Your fears are unfounded
> >and overblown.
> >
> >Cindy Hamilton

> It's easy enough to temporarily connect your stove to a propane
> bottle... it's no big deal to switch between natural gas and propane
> and then switch back, Or just cook with a propane grill that has a
> side burner. Or in warm weather cook outdoors with a white gas camp
> stove, very inexpensive to buy one.


Why the hell would I want to fool with propane when I already have the
induction burner?

For that matter, I could move my stove outside and hook it up to the
same natural gas line as the gas grill. It was simpler just to break
out the induction burner.


Cindy Hamilton
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On Tue, 15 Jun 2021 00:05:14 -0700, dsi1 wrote:


> I might be able to produce a flame by heating up a pan until very
> hot and then dumping alcohol in the pan. Would that work? I can't say.


Try diethyl ether. Oftimes it is sold as a 'carburator helper' to give a
bit of boost to help start recalcitrant engines. It has a flash point
under 100 C, i.e. it will ignite just with contacting live steam.

NB: Do this outdoors & upwind, &c.
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On 15/06/2021 14:43, Sheldon Martin wrote:

> It's easy enough to temporarily connect your stove to a propane
> bottle... it's no big deal to switch between natural gas and propane
> and then switch back,


Changing the orifice on a gas stove takes time and knowledge. Natural
gas and propane require different sizes.



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On 6/15/2021 9:55 AM, Mike Duffy wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Jun 2021 00:05:14 -0700, dsi1 wrote:
>
>
>> I might be able to produce a flame by heating up a pan until very
>> hot and then dumping alcohol in the pan. Would that work? I can't say.

>
> Try diethyl ether. Oftimes it is sold as a 'carburator helper' to give a
> bit of boost to help start recalcitrant engines. It has a flash point
> under 100 C, i.e. it will ignite just with contacting live steam.
>
> NB: Do this outdoors& upwind,&c.


Sounds like a fun science experiment.
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On 6/15/2021 9:43 AM, Sheldon Martin wrote:
> It's easy enough to temporarily connect your stove to a propane
> bottle... it's no big deal to switch between natural gas and propane
> and then switch back, Or just cook with a propane grill that has a
> side burner. Or in warm weather cook outdoors with a white gas camp
> stove, very inexpensive to buy one.


My stove was formerly used with propane. I thought one was supposed to
change the gas jets when converting. The prior owner instead readjusted
all of the gas orifices, to get a proper flame... making it a pain to
hook up and adjust.
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On 2021-06-15 11:16 a.m., S Viemeister wrote:
> On 15/06/2021 14:43, Sheldon Martin wrote:
>
>> It's easy enough to temporarily connect your stove to a propane
>> bottle... it's no big deal to switch between natural gas and propane
>> and then switch back,

>
> Changing the orifice on a gas stove takes time and knowledge. Natural
> gas and propane require different sizes.
>


When they brought a natural gas line down our road we were quick to
switch over from gas to oil. I wondered why our neighbours held off on
the switch. They had propane. Aside from the cost of the line to their
house, they were concerned with the cost of converting everything. They
have the house and a pole barn with a heated office, so that was two
furnaces, two water heaters and, being Italian, their dual kitchens with
gas stoves. They did eventually switch, but there was considerable cost.
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On 6/15/2021 3:11 AM, dsi1 wrote:
> On Monday, June 14, 2021 at 6:40:50 PM UTC-10, Michael Trew wrote:
>> On 6/14/2021 3:45 PM, cshenk wrote:
>>> Michael Trew wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 6/13/2021 1:26 PM, John Kuthe wrote:
>>>>> On Saturday, June 12, 2021 at 11:29:00 PM UTC-5, Michael Trew wrote:
>>>>>> I'm not sure what recently compelled me to make a double recipe
>>>>>> of toll house cookies, but it somehow came out to be about 9
>>>>>> dozen cookies. In a house without A/C on a near 90 degree day,
>>>>>> that wasn't my smartest idea.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I decided to turn off the the pilot lights on my stove to save on
>>>>>> heat in the kitchen, and supper was just a cold chipped chopped
>>>>>> ham and provolone sandwich. The humidity has my fridge
>>>>>> desperately needing defrosted as well. I suppose it's all better
>>>>>> than snow, however.
>>>>>
>>>>> I turn of my stove's pilot light permanently! I went all ELECTRIC!
>>>>> And I have my gas company come and pull their gas meter from my
>>>>> house!
>>>>>
>>>>> John Kuthe, RN, BSN...
>>>>
>>>> Natural gas is dirt cheap around here, I'll keep my stove. I don't
>>>> care about the oven, other than the cost, but I hate cooking on an
>>>> electric stove top.
>>>
>>> Same here but it's all in what you are used to. Gas is far more
>>> flexible than electric or induction.

>> I'd never want induction. If my cast iron pans don't work, it's a
>> useless stove to me.

>
> Cast iron works great with induction. My guess is that an induction range works faster than gas because you're not heating the pan by conduction. The pan actually acts as a heating element. These days there's no need to use cast iron. Carbon steel pans are lighter and bear a cooking surface uncannily similar to cast iron.


I like my cast iron pans.

I head that they did not work with induction, but to be fair, I can't
say that I've ever tested it. There was a pan that did not work with
induction stoves at all. Was it aluminum? Maybe just my old enamel
pots (which I do still use)?

Cast iron and any glass top stove are not a good combination. I
wouldn't want a glass top stove; far too easy to scratch with any pan or
while cleaning.


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On 6/15/2021 4:56 AM, S Viemeister wrote:
> On 15/06/2021 05:40, Michael Trew wrote:
>
>> I'd never want induction. If my cast iron pans don't work, it's a
>> useless stove to me.

>
> I use a gas cooktop, but also have a single-burner induction unit. My
> cast iron pans work perfectly on the induction burner. I use a disc of
> baking parchment or one of those round silicone baking mats, between the
> burner and the cast iron, to avoid scratching the surface.
>


I suppose that I'm just not used to the technology, but putting
parchment paper on the stove surface is very off putting to me. It
doesn't get too hot?


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On 15/06/2021 16:26, Michael Trew wrote:
> On 6/15/2021 4:56 AM, S Viemeister wrote:
>> On 15/06/2021 05:40, Michael Trew wrote:
>>
>>> I'd never want induction.Â* If my cast iron pans don't work, it's a
>>> useless stove to me.

>>
>> I use a gas cooktop, but also have a single-burner induction unit. My
>> cast iron pans work perfectly on the induction burner. I use a disc of
>> baking parchment or one of those round silicone baking mats, between the
>> burner and the cast iron, to avoid scratching the surface.
>>

>
> I suppose that I'm just not used to the technology, but putting
> parchment paper on the stove surface is very off putting to me.Â* It
> doesn't get too hot?


No, it doesn't. That's one of the magical benefits of induction!
But having found a suitably sized round cake tin liner, I use that
instead - looks nicer, and easy to rinse off any spills.
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On 6/15/2021 11:24 AM, Dave Smith wrote:
> When they brought a natural gas line down our road we were quick to
> switch over from gas to oil.
>

Huh?
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On Tue, 15 Jun 2021 11:23:37 -0400, Michael Trew >
wrote:

>On 6/15/2021 9:43 AM, Sheldon Martin wrote:
>> It's easy enough to temporarily connect your stove to a propane
>> bottle... it's no big deal to switch between natural gas and propane
>> and then switch back, Or just cook with a propane grill that has a
>> side burner. Or in warm weather cook outdoors with a white gas camp
>> stove, very inexpensive to buy one.

>
>My stove was formerly used with propane. I thought one was supposed to
>change the gas jets when converting. The prior owner instead readjusted
>all of the gas orifices, to get a proper flame... making it a pain to
>hook up and adjust.


Our used truck use to run on propane (utility company vehicle) It has
been converted back to gas. We just need to get an expensive special
air filter.
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On 6/14/2021 10:25 AM, Michael Trew wrote:
> On 6/13/2021 10:24 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On 6/13/2021 9:43 PM, Michael Trew wrote:
>>
>>>> The VAST majority of your electric is derived from COAL, John...
>>>>
>>>
>>> No one seems to understand that. Same deal with these electric cars.
>>> Yes, they are not polluting locally, but on top of fossil fuel plants,
>>> literally about half of all electricity is lost during transmission...
>>> that's terribly inefficient, and adds up to twice of the claimed
>>> pollution of whatever fossil fuel the plant burns.

>>
>> You need to brush up on the facts. Electricity loss is about 5% in
>> transmission.
>> https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=105&t=3
>> The U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA) estimates that
>> electricity transmission and distribution (T&D) losses equaled about 5%
>> of the electricity transmitted and distributed in the United States in
>> 2015 through 2019.
>>
>>

http://insideenergy.org/2015/11/06/l...and-your-plug/

>>
>>
>> Energy lost in transmission and distribution: About 6% €“ 2% in
>> transmission and 4% in distribution €“ or 69 trillion Btus in the U.S. in
>> 2013
>>
>> In the future, other forms of generation will take over. In our area
>> solar is viable and I get some of my juice from solar.
>>
>> EVs have a long way to go to be ideal, but there are many new
>> technologies in the works to reduce or eliminate lithium, make faster
>> charging times, longer distance.
>>
>> People thought the automobile was just a fad for the wealthy too. It
>> will take years but it will be viable.

>
>
> I meant to say distribution losses = 50% -- not transmission losses.
>
>

https://electrical-engineering-porta...ission-lines-1

>
>
> I'm sure it will eventually be viable. However, as it sits now, between
> fossil fuel power plants and environmentally harmful lithium mining, you
> can't say that you are making the "Green choice" with an electric car.

Thank you for proving the electric automobile is a better use of energy.

You are probably aghast that 50% of the energy generated is lost. Bad
as it seem, that is much better than the internal combustion engine.

How efficient is an internal combustion engine?
20 percent
Most internal combustion engines are only 20 percent thermally
efficient, according to Green Car Reports. In addition to heat, the
various systems required to run the engine all take energy that could
potentially be put to use propelling the vehicle.Mar 1, 2018

Toyota has done better, but still not as good as an EV. Don't forget
the cost of energy to transport gas to the local stations.
https://www.thedrive.com/tech/18919/...0-liter-engine


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On Tuesday, June 15, 2021 at 3:55:17 AM UTC-10, Mike Duffy wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Jun 2021 00:05:14 -0700, dsi1 wrote:
>
>
> > I might be able to produce a flame by heating up a pan until very
> > hot and then dumping alcohol in the pan. Would that work? I can't say.

> Try diethyl ether. Oftimes it is sold as a 'carburator helper' to give a
> bit of boost to help start recalcitrant engines. It has a flash point
> under 100 C, i.e. it will ignite just with contacting live steam.
>
> NB: Do this outdoors & upwind, &c.


Starter fluid? That's an interesting idea. It might work. I won't be trying it though. I have used it in the past and it is some pretty fun stuff. Does starter fluid work in a world without carburetors? I loved rebuilding carburetors - just don't let your check balls roll off the table.
There are times that I have wanted to have some flame action. With an induction range, you're plumb out of luck. That's why I bought a self-starting propane torch for the kitchen. These days I'm using a cheap portable, butane burner because my range died. That's the breaks. We'll get another but it won't be an induction range.
I recently went to a guy's home and could feel heat coming from his stovetop. I told him that his burner was on. His friend told me he keeps it on all the time so he could light his cigarettes. That made a lot of sense to me. The next time I visited him, he was somewhat sober, had a cheap, plastic, lighter, had a shave, and the burner was off. I guess he cleaned himself up for my visit. That was good thing to do. Alcohol, cigarettes, a live burner, and having a single lung, is a heck of a combo!
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