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Default TN: Small Carnival Gathering (Brouilly, Aligoté, NZ Riesling, CdR)

SMALL CARNIVAL GATHERING - At Home (2/10/2006)

Friday was Cathryn's birthday. She's from New Orleans and won't be
making it home for Mardi Gras this year so we had a small carnival
party. Food included jambalaya, gumbo, muffalettas, and similar items.
I chose four wines with the idea of trying to box in the tough matches.
Riesling for a gentle but bright white, aligoté for a bit sharper
white, Brouilly for a bright and fresh red, and Cairanne for a round
and ready red. For the three French wines, I also picked up the
generally crowd-pleasing 2003 vintage. I think that it, perhaps,
pleased the crowd. Whether it pleased me was another question.

*2004 Greenhough Riesling - New Zealand, South Island, Nelson*

Light and bright appearance. Nose of limey apple and mineral. A bit of
spritz on the tip of the tongue highlights the bright freshness of
this. Good acid, nice lime and peach highlights surround the core of
apple fruit and mineral. Maybe a touch of petrol (but just the
slightest hint) in the finish. This makes a passing reference to
Alsace, but lacks a bit of the density and concentration it showed last
time I had it. Bright and fresh and everything a simple young riesling
should be, but a tad disappointing only because it was such an
over-performer the last time I had it.

*2003 Fleurot-Larose Bourgogne-Aligoté - France, Burgundy, Côte d'Or,
Bourgogne-Aligoté*

Relatively deep and dark color, hinting at something but I wasn't sure
what. On the nose, it became immediately apparent; a dastardly duo of
vintage and super-toasted oak had done its evil work. You know those
aboukir almonds that sometimes appear at the end of a meal? That's
exactly what this wine smelled and tasted like. The butterscotchy
sweetness of the new oak and the super-ripe fruit of the vintage
produced a big cloying glass without any fresh and acid aligoté
profile. I had hoped the vintage richness and typical aligoté
character would combine to produce a great outcome. No such luck. The
wines from Fleurot-Larose are getting new exposure in Japan now because
the owner has married a Japanese woman (or so I am told). Based on this
taste, I won't be trying any more of them. I also hear they've sold or
long-term leased out their little plot of Montrachet. I had hoped the
proceeds would go into better wine. From all that I can tell, they've
simply gone into a grotesque level of toasted barrel purchasing. I
realize that I haven't described anything else I found in the wine, but
what's the point? To be fair, without the extremely cloying
aboukir-almond-sweetness this would just have been an overoaked wine.
But I just couldn't get past that kernel of sweetness, even though I
drank parts of several glasses throughout the night to give it a
chance.

*2003 Jean-Claude Lapalu Brouilly Croix des Rameaux - France, Burgundy,
Beaujolais, Brouilly*

Schizophrenia... That's the only way I know to describe my reaction to
this wine. It has a nice deep purplish red color that is bright at the
same time. The nose shows just a bit of new oak vanilla sweetness that
also comes out on the palate as a certain (baby Dujac-like) silkiness
and an occasionally cloying candy note. There are really two strains of
fruit: a typical Brouilly bright red berry with almost peachy acidity
and also a very Moulin-a-Vent like deep plummy fruit that even
threatens to hint at chocolate. It is surprisingly dense and reasonably
persistent on the finish. The alcohol is occasionally a tad hot, but
gives the wine a certain sweetness and body that makes it seem bigger
than it is. If I rated wine on some absolute scale, I would probably
have to rate this higher than most Beaujolais that I am happier
drinking. It really does have all the pieces in that way. Yet, somehow,
it just shows a bit too much of the effort to move north to the Côte
d'Or and bit too much of the vintage. Ease up on the new oak (or
whatever gave the sweet nose) and tone down the ripeness and the dark
fruit a bit and this would be a headline stunner of a cru Beaujolais.
As it is, it is almost there. But I feel a bit like I'm buying some
kind of pirated good in a back alley in Beijing. If I'd wanted a pinot
from the Côte d'Or, I would have bought a basic bourgogne from
Geantet-Pansiot or Lafarge. Those were available for about the same
money. I wanted to buy a Beaujolais (and a lighter, brighter wine like
the Brouilly it claims to be).

*2003 Domaine Richaud Côtes du Rhône Villages Cairanne - France,
Rhône, Southern Rhône, Côtes du Rhône Villages Cairanne*

"Love the one you're with..." Deep and dark ripe plummy color. Nose
shows a bit of dust and garrigue to highlight the ripe blackberry juice
nose. On the palate, again shows just enough hot earth and herb to
avoid ripe-black-fruit malaise. Juicy and fun, with good density and
enough pleasant richness to wear its alcohol well. A meaty element on
the finish and the slightest tannic bite round out the package. While I
love Rabasse-Charavin and other CdR that have great acid and red fruit
that I can age forever, there is always a place for ripe and young and
pleasantly rich CdR. This fits the bill perfectly. That was what I was
looking for when I bought the wine and it delivered. While I've yet to
have a bigger appellation 2003 from the Rhone that pleased, the lesser
apps in the south are providing some nice and juicy young drinking.


As stated above, the Cairanne was exactly what I was looking for and so
was the riesling. The Brouilly was good in some sense, but was a prime
example of why wines should be true to their appellations. Otherwise,
how do we know what to buy? The aligoté was a freaking cartoon.

None of this really mattered though, as the Hurricanes were the more
popular item -- at least until the collective groans went up the next
morning.

Posted from CellarTracker

Enjoy,

Jim

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Jim wrote:

> *2003 Jean-Claude Lapalu Brouilly Croix des Rameaux - France, Burgundy,
> Beaujolais, Brouilly*


> As it is, it is almost there. But I feel a bit like I'm buying some
> kind of pirated good in a back alley in Beijing. If I'd wanted a pinot
> from the Côte d'Or, I would have bought a basic bourgogne from
> Geantet-Pansiot or Lafarge. Those were available for about the same
> money. I wanted to buy a Beaujolais (and a lighter, brighter wine like
> the Brouilly it claims to be).


Jim,
That's asking an awful lot from the "vintage of the sun."
Personally, I wouldn't judge an estate from the performance of their
'03, nor would I assume that in other years their wines might not have
far more typicity.

Mark Lipton
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Default TN: Small Carnival Gathering (Brouilly, Aligoté, NZ Riesling, CdR)

Mark:

I agree. I expected this to be at least a little riper than what one
would normally see from a more balanced vintage. I've heard good
things about the producer, so he'll get another shot when the '04 comes
in. As I said, it was almost there. However, the appearance of newish
oak did bother me. I've been fooled before though. It is possible the
banilla sweetness came from something other than oak.

As you imply, only solution is to try another vintage.

Jim

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Default TN: Small Carnival Gathering (Brouilly, Aligoté, NZ Riesling, CdR)

Jim wrote

>None of this really mattered though, as the Hurricanes were the more
>popular item -- at least until the collective groans went up the next
>morning.



Hurricanes? Hurricanes? What's this about hurricanes?
Or is someone in Japan watching super14?


cheers greybeard


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Default Wine that got you into wine?


What wine did you first taste that caused you to think, "wow, this is what
wine is supposed to be like!" ?

For me, at about age 23, it was a '78 Cabernet from the now-defunct Grand Cru
winery in Glen Ellen, CA.



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Default Wine that got you into wine?

> wrote in message
s.com...
>
> What wine did you first taste that caused you to think, "wow, this is what
> wine is supposed to be like!" ?


There were 2 of them: one white; the other red.

1972 David Bruce Chardonnay
1970 Van Loben Sels Oakville Cabernet Sauvignon

Before that I drank Blue Nun, Mateus Rosé, Gallo Hardly Burgundy etc.

What a difference!

Tom S
www.chateauburbank.com


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"Tom S" > wrote in message
om...
> > wrote in message
> s.com...
>>
>> What wine did you first taste that caused you to think, "wow, this is
>> what
>> wine is supposed to be like!" ?

>
> There were 2 of them: one white; the other red.
>
> 1972 David Bruce Chardonnay
> 1970 Van Loben Sels Oakville Cabernet Sauvignon
>
> Before that I drank Blue Nun, Mateus Rosé, Gallo Hardly Burgundy etc.
>
> What a difference!
>
> Tom S
> www.chateauburbank.com
>


Ahhhh - Grand Cru! They had the best Gewürztraminer and Chenin Blanc in
California. BTW, around the corner is one of my favorite Zin pushers -
Wellington.

My earliest memorable was a '70 Cheval Blanc that I bought in St. Emilion
($12) and carried in my backpack to Athens where I shared it with a lady who
is now my wife. But mostly, I have slowly gone up the ladder as my means
improved, then struck off in search of the *great* bottle of $10 wine....


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Default Wine that got you into wine?

There were two wines for me:

California- 1982 Silver Oak
France: 1978 Chateau Margaux


"Tom S" > wrote in message
om...
> > wrote in message
> s.com...
>>
>> What wine did you first taste that caused you to think, "wow, this is
>> what
>> wine is supposed to be like!" ?

>
> There were 2 of them: one white; the other red.
>
> 1972 David Bruce Chardonnay
> 1970 Van Loben Sels Oakville Cabernet Sauvignon
>
> Before that I drank Blue Nun, Mateus Rosé, Gallo Hardly Burgundy etc.
>
> What a difference!
>
> Tom S
> www.chateauburbank.com
>





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> skrev i melding
s.com...
>
> What wine did you first taste that caused you to think, "wow, this is what
> wine is supposed to be like!" ?
>

And for me, at about 22, it was a Vosne-Romanée... Probably nothing more
than a commune appellation, but wow!
The event was a sort of embassy reception and I did get quite a few glasses
:-)
Anders


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Default Wine that got you into wine?

For me, it was the 1997 vintage of reds in California. I'd gone wine
tasting a few times prior, but 1997 was a pretty good year and I came
home with a dozen (and wanted more).

Jose
--
Money: what you need when you run out of brains.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.
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wrote: ^^^^^^^^^^^
|||||||||||

Not quite the name I normally would respond to.

> What wine did you first taste that caused you to think, "wow,
> this is what wine is supposed to be like!" ?


But the question is OK, and incidentally I happen know the answer.

Having been raised in wine country (Vienna, Austria), wine was
part not of our daily diet, but at home wine was drunk 3 to 5
times a week with dinner. I remember "Rio Tejo" red, Portuguese
plonk coming in crown-capped liter bottles (bottled by the
supermarket chain in Austria) regularly on the table at home. Of
course we went to Heurigen to have Gespritzer, starting age 16/17.
(No need to point with the finger, legal drinking age in Eastern
Austria - that's where the vine is grown - is 16.)

But revelation came 1974, at age 21, in Zurich. At a friend's
place I remember having two reds that opened my eyes as to what
red wine can be: 1971 Moulin-à-Vent, a Mövenpick bottling (the
latter being a large swiss wine merchant and 1971 a phantastic
year for both Burgundy and Beaujolais); and 1966 Ch. Malartic-
Lagravière, Cru Classé des Graves. (As to white wine, I was a
spoiled child: Austrian whites were already very, very good at the
time - if you knew where to buy -, but reds were a disaster.)

So the summer of 1974 was the time I was bitten by phylloxera,
known as the wine bug.

Jeez, that's 32 years back ... ;-)

M.
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Michael Pronay wrote:

> Having been raised in wine country (Vienna, Austria), wine was
> part not of our daily diet, but at home wine was drunk 3 to 5
> times a week with dinner. I remember "Rio Tejo" red, Portuguese
> plonk coming in crown-capped liter bottles (bottled by the
> supermarket chain in Austria) regularly on the table at home. Of
> course we went to Heurigen to have Gespritzer, starting age 16/17.
> (No need to point with the finger, legal drinking age in Eastern
> Austria - that's where the vine is grown - is 16.)


Like Michael, I grew up with wine in the house, in this case "dago red"
(in reality, some pretty decent Charles Krug Zins from the '60s), but my
first exposure to fine wine probably came on family trips to France and
Germany, where I was allowed to partake small quantities of whatever was
being served.

>
> But revelation came 1974, at age 21, in Zurich. At a friend's
> place I remember having two reds that opened my eyes as to what
> red wine can be: 1971 Moulin-à-Vent, a Mövenpick bottling (the
> latter being a large swiss wine merchant and 1971 a phantastic
> year for both Burgundy and Beaujolais); and 1966 Ch. Malartic-
> Lagravière, Cru Classé des Graves. (As to white wine, I was a
> spoiled child: Austrian whites were already very, very good at the
> time - if you knew where to buy -, but reds were a disaster.)


And my revelation came in 1980, at age 21, when I had a 1977 Concannon
Sauvignon Blanc that turned me on to how interesting white wine could
be. Then, the next year, I had a 1978 Dehlinger Zinfandel that opened
my eyes to how complex wine could be. From there it was all downhill...

Mark Lipton


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It was what still is the greatest wine of all, the 1995 Domaine de
Baumard Quarts de Chaume. I had no idea how good wine could be and this
was only available pre-arrival so I only got one bottle. Many years
later I met someone who had a case and traded one for me. I know it's
the only bottle I'll ever have so I may never open it.

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kenneth mccoy scribed:

>It was what still is the greatest wine of all, the 1995 Domaine de
>Baumard Quarts de Chaume. I had no idea how good wine could be and this
>was only available pre-arrival so I only got one bottle. Many years
>later I met someone who had a case and traded one for me. I know it's
>the only bottle I'll ever have so I may never open it.


IMO, nothing will ever beat the '59 Lafitte.
--
Ed Jay (remove 'M' to respond by email)
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First real revelation came for me just after my 20th birthday a couple
of months ago - was in New Zealand, in Queenstown. Had tried a few
wines in the past before, hadn't *really* liked anything particular.
Went on the Gibbston Valley Wine Route with my family, and suddenly
found myself really liking the Marlborough Riesling there. Spent the
rest of the trip in NZ trying out various other wines (particularly the
Rieslings and Sauvignon Blancs) and have now developed a real fondness
for them.

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Salut/Hi Ed Jay,

le/on Wed, 15 Feb 2006 15:05:36 -0800, tu disais/you said:-

>kenneth mccoy scribed:
>
>>It was what still is the greatest wine of all, the 1995 Domaine de
>>Baumard Quarts de Chaume. I had no idea how good wine could be and this
>>was only available pre-arrival so I only got one bottle. Many years
>>later I met someone who had a case and traded one for me. I know it's
>>the only bottle I'll ever have so I may never open it.

>
>IMO, nothing will ever beat the '59 Lafitte.


Would that be Chteau Smith Haut-Lafitte?

Because the red wine I had in mind was the 1959 Ch Mouton-Rothschild Which I
tasted in parallel with the Chateau Lafite-Rothschild 1959.

The white wine that was my vinous awakening was '67 Ch Suduiraut. And the
dry white would be a magnum of Le Montrachet '67 from Marquis de Laguiche.
--
All the Best
Ian Hoare
http://www.souvigne.com
mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website


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Default TN: Small Carnival Gathering (Brouilly, Aligoté, NZ Riesling, CdR)

Not the storms. Not the semi-pro team from a university in Miami. Not
even fighter jets. And not a bright red concoction made from Pat
Obrien's powder packages.

Yes, folks, it's the real thing. Six parts light rum. Six parts dark
rum. Three parts passion fruit syrup. Two parts lime juice.

Lots of fun. Lots of pain.

They even make an '03 Beaujolais seem light on alcohol.

Jim

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> wrote in message
s.com...
>
> What wine did you first taste that caused you to think, "wow, this is what
> wine is supposed to be like!" ?
>
> For me, at about age 23, it was a '78 Cabernet from the now-defunct Grand
> Cru
> winery in Glen Ellen, CA.
>


1974 Heitz Cabernet.


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Who here drinks Dolcetto regularly?


cutecat wrote:
> > wrote in message
> s.com...
> >
> > What wine did you first taste that caused you to think, "wow, this is what
> > wine is supposed to be like!" ?
> >
> > For me, at about age 23, it was a '78 Cabernet from the now-defunct Grand
> > Cru
> > winery in Glen Ellen, CA.
> >

>
> 1974 Heitz Cabernet.


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> wrote in message
s.com...
>
> What wine did you first taste that caused you to think, "wow, this is what
> wine is supposed to be like!" ?
>
> For me, at about age 23, it was a '78 Cabernet from the now-defunct Grand
> Cru
> winery in Glen Ellen, CA.


A 1975 Rioja Gran Reserva and a pretty young lady.
Can't remember the producer.
Tim




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> Yes, folks, it's the real thing. Six parts light rum. Six parts dark
> rum. Three parts passion fruit syrup. Two parts lime juice.
>
> Lots of fun. Lots of pain.
>
> They even make an '03 Beaujolais seem light on alcohol.
>
> Jim



Ouch!

FWIW I was at the 'Canes v. Blues game Friday night. Got
our butts kicked bigtime. Double ouch!
Got my mojo back, going to the Waiheke wine festival saturday.

cheers greybeard


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Went to a Villa Maria wine club tasting, dragged along
by work colleagues around 1992. They had the
VM 1990 reserve cab sav, and the 1990 res cab/merlot
to taste. I suddenly got it. Left with a case of each. Quite
an investment then.
Still have a bottle or 2 of each in the case..........


greybeard


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Hi from Kinko's by Disney Woild---I vas in da usd chariot mit mine Uncle
Plinius Pinkus, ven I hat a Eureka moment, I vas having some hummus & goat
at da house of anudder uncle, Boytrides ben Reuban Earl, when he poured me a
late harvest falernum he was sellin at his cafe, Ben's Boite. Da chariot
bizness vas slow so I esked how can I sell this stuff and he gave me one his
calling rocks to take da wine brokker, Fastis Lapidias who sign me up & sent
me to East Gaul. sellin mavrodaphne and whey. Dats how I
started...............

J Murray Fefferman, world oldest fugitive as told to
woman
"Tim O'Connor" > wrote in message
...
> > wrote in message
> s.com...
> >
> > What wine did you first taste that caused you to think, "wow, this is

what
> > wine is supposed to be like!" ?
> >
> > For me, at about age 23, it was a '78 Cabernet from the now-defunct

Grand
> > Cru
> > winery in Glen Ellen, CA.

>
> A 1975 Rioja Gran Reserva and a pretty young lady.
> Can't remember the producer.
> Tim
>
>



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Ian Hoare scribed:

>Salut/Hi Ed Jay,
>
> le/on Wed, 15 Feb 2006 15:05:36 -0800, tu disais/you said:-
>
>>kenneth mccoy scribed:
>>
>>>It was what still is the greatest wine of all, the 1995 Domaine de
>>>Baumard Quarts de Chaume. I had no idea how good wine could be and this
>>>was only available pre-arrival so I only got one bottle. Many years
>>>later I met someone who had a case and traded one for me. I know it's
>>>the only bottle I'll ever have so I may never open it.

>>
>>IMO, nothing will ever beat the '59 Lafitte.

>
>Would that be Chteau Smith Haut-Lafitte?
>
>Because the red wine I had in mind was the 1959 Ch Mouton-Rothschild Which I
>tasted in parallel with the Chateau Lafite-Rothschild 1959.
>
>The white wine that was my vinous awakening was '67 Ch Suduiraut. And the
>dry white would be a magnum of Le Montrachet '67 from Marquis de Laguiche.


Chateau Lafitte-Rothschild.
--
Ed Jay (remove 'M' to respond by email)
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"Ed Jay" > wrote in message
...
>
> Chateau Lafitte-Rothschild.


That is one of my absolute favorite wines, and arguably among the best in
the world - but there's only one "t" in that particular Lafite.

OTOH, Chteau Smith Haut-Lafitte spells it differently - which I believe is
the point Ian was making, although perhaps more subtly. :^/

Tom S
www.chateauburbank.com




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Salut/Hi Ed Jay,

le/on Wed, 22 Feb 2006 10:33:02 -0800, tu disais/you said:-

>Chateau Lafitte-Rothschild.


A great wine, but my astonishment was reserved for the Moutton of the same
year.;-)

ATB
Ian

--
All the Best
Ian Hoare
http://www.souvigne.com
mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website
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Tom S scribed:

>"Ed Jay" > wrote in message
.. .
>>
>> Chateau Lafitte-Rothschild.

>
>That is one of my absolute favorite wines, and arguably among the best in
>the world - but there's only one "t" in that particular Lafite.


I'm probably still under the influence. :-)
>
>OTOH, Chteau Smith Haut-Lafitte spells it differently - which I believe is
>the point Ian was making, although perhaps more subtly. :^/
>
>Tom S
>www.chateauburbank.com
>

--
Ed Jay (remove 'M' to respond by email)
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"Ed Jay" > skrev i melding
...
> Ian Hoare scribed:
>
> I can't remember drinking the '59 Moutton. What I do remember is falling
> in love with the Lafite and buying it every time I was able to. And, I
> remember paying the outrageous price of...$71/btl.
> --

71$? USD? That must have been a late price (in the late 70'ies?)
I have a copy of a Norwegian list from 1965, unfortunately without the
Lafite, but including such items as Ch. d'Yquem 1960 at 7USD and Ch.
Rieussec 1959 at 3.75USD. Alcohol was, and is, heavily taxed in Norway, so
deduct about 30% to get international prices...

Of course, price differentials between ordinary and great wine were far less
in older days. I've also a list from 1927 showing unspecified St.Emilion NV
at 0.45USD and Ch.Latour 1916 at 1.45USD... The Petrus 1916 was 0.95USD.
That says something about real value differentials - there's simply no
justification in paying 100times more for a grand wine than for an ordinary
one, other than snob value.
Anders


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Default Wine that got you into wine?

Anders wrote on Sat, 25 Feb 2006 09:56:16 +0100:


AT> "Ed Jay" > skrev i melding
AT> ...
??>> Ian Hoare scribed:
??>>
??>> I can't remember drinking the '59 Moutton. What I do
??>> remember is falling in love with the Lafite and buying it
??>> every time I was able to. And, I remember paying the
??>> outrageous price of...$71/btl. --
AT> 71$? USD? That must have been a late price (in the late
AT> 70'ies?) I have a copy of a Norwegian list from 1965,
AT> unfortunately without the Lafite, but including such items
AT> as Ch. d'Yquem 1960 at 7USD and Ch. Rieussec 1959 at
AT> 3.75USD. Alcohol was, and is, heavily taxed in Norway, so
AT> deduct about 30% to get international prices...

The price ratio for fine to acceptable wine is very interesting.
However, I thought it might be interesting to quote a few US CPI
figures:
ftp://ftp.bls.gov/pub/special.requests/cpi/cpiai.txt

1913: 1.00, 1920: 2.02, 1930: 1.69, 1940: 1.41, 1950: 2.43,
1960: 2.99

1970: 3.92, 1980: 8.32, 1990: 13.20, 2000: 17.39, 2005: 19.88.

On a basis of the 1965 CPI (3.18), the 1960 Chateau d'Yquem
would be 43.76 in present USD: quite a bargain if you accept the
stratospheric prices that people will pay!



James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland.

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Default Wine that got you into wine?

Anders Tørneskog scribed:

>
>"Ed Jay" > skrev i melding
.. .
>> Ian Hoare scribed:
>>
>> I can't remember drinking the '59 Moutton. What I do remember is falling
>> in love with the Lafite and buying it every time I was able to. And, I
>> remember paying the outrageous price of...$71/btl.
>> --

>71$? USD? That must have been a late price (in the late 70'ies?)


I paid $71 in 1974, at the local gourmet shop (Chalet Gourmet). It was on
the menu at my favorite restaurant for $110.

>I have a copy of a Norwegian list from 1965, unfortunately without the
>Lafite, but including such items as Ch. d'Yquem 1960 at 7USD and Ch.
>Rieussec 1959 at 3.75USD. Alcohol was, and is, heavily taxed in Norway, so
>deduct about 30% to get international prices...


Ch. d'Yquem for only $7? Is that a typo? (Please...tell me it's a typo!)
;-)
>
>Of course, price differentials between ordinary and great wine were far less
>in older days. I've also a list from 1927 showing unspecified St.Emilion NV
>at 0.45USD and Ch.Latour 1916 at 1.45USD... The Petrus 1916 was 0.95USD.


Indeed, the world as we knew it, has ended... :-)

>That says something about real value differentials - there's simply no
>justification in paying 100times more for a grand wine than for an ordinary
>one, other than snob value.
>

I respectfully disagree. The '59 Lafite is a good example of why I
disagree, as is the '82 Moutton, etc., etc.

I certainly do agree that some wines aren't worth the bloated prices, save
snob appeal (Screaming Eagle is the first to pop into my mind.).
--
Ed Jay (remove 'M' to respond by email)
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