Mexican Cooking (alt.food.mexican-cooking) A newsgroup created for the discussion and sharing of mexican food and recipes.

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Old 02-11-2003, 03:50 AM
A1 WBarfieldsr
 
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Default Baked Red Snapper with Garlic


Baked Red Snapper with Garlic

1 (2-3 lb.) whole red snapper, cleaned
1 shallot, minced
salt and pepper to taste
4 Tbls. fresh lemon juice
2 tsp. lemon pulp, finely chopped
1 tsp. lemon zest, freshly grated
1 Tbls. bottled capers, drained and minced
2 Tbls. fresh parsley leaves, minced
1 Tbls. garlic, minced
3/4 tsp. seafood seasoning
4 Tbls. chilled unsalted butter, cut into pieces
6 fresh thyme sprigs
6 thin lemon slices
Enough butter to coat inside the foil.

In a small skillet heat 2 Tbls. butter over moderate heat until it begins
to brown and stir in shallot.
Cook shallot until softened but not browned, about 2 minutes.
Remove skillet from heat and stir in 2 Tbls. lemon juice.
In a small bowl stir together parsley, capers, lemon pulp, and zest.
Brush fish with butter mixture and sprinkle with salt, pepper, and parsley
mixture.
Place 24x18-inch piece of foil on heavy large baking sheet.
Butter foil and place the fish in the center.
Season cavity of fish with garlic, 2 Tbls. lemon juice and seafood
seasoning.
Dot cavity with butter.
Arrange thyme sprigs inside cavity.
Top with lemon slices.
Fold edges of foil over fish; seal.
Preheat oven to 350F.
Bake fish until cooked through, about 45 minutes.
Transfer fish to platter.
Open foil.
Servings: 4


--
William Barfieldsr


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Old 02-11-2003, 05:52 PM
Dimitri
 
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Default Baked Red Snapper with Garlic


"A1 WBarfieldsr" wrote in message
.. .

Baked Red Snapper with Garlic


Hey scumbag thief, where did you steal this one?

Dimitri


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Old 02-11-2003, 06:55 PM
Linda
 
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Default Baked Red Snapper with Garlic

Is he still at it? I've killfiled him long ago.

Linda
(Back from R&R)

"Dimitri" wrote in message
om...

"A1 WBarfieldsr" wrote in message
.. .

Baked Red Snapper with Garlic


Hey scumbag thief, where did you steal this one?

Dimitri




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Old 02-11-2003, 07:46 PM
anti spammer
 
Posts: n/a
Default Baked Red Snapper with Garlic

On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 16:52:15 GMT, "Dimitri"
wrote:


"A1 WBarfieldsr" wrote in message
. ..

Baked Red Snapper with Garlic


Hey scumbag thief, where did you steal this one?

Dimitri


Dimitri.....

This news group is for mexican recipes and cooking, who gives a damn
where one gets the recipe, we get recipes from many different
sources........... Soooo A1WBarfield.... is a person who supplies
information.

You need to go to Alt.food.madeup.recipe-mexican-cooking.

I don't think this A1 guy with, (too much time on his hands) is
effecting your life in anyway.



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Old 02-11-2003, 08:04 PM
David Wright
 
Posts: n/a
Default Baked Red Snapper with Garlic

On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 10:46:10 -0800, anti spammer
surfnewsnospam.usenet.com wrote:

This news group is for mexican recipes and cooking, who gives a damn
where one gets the recipe, we get recipes from many different
sources........... Soooo A1WBarfield.... is a person who supplies
information.

You need to go to Alt.food.madeup.recipe-mexican-cooking.

I don't think this A1 guy with, (too much time on his hands) is
effecting your life in anyway.

Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
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An ungrammatical, anonymous, and ignorant-about-this-newsgroup
"friend" who gives our long-time member advice. What kind of
"retention" do you have?

David (my real name)


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Old 02-11-2003, 10:03 PM
A1 WBarfieldsr
 
Posts: n/a
Default Baked Red Snapper with Garlic




"anti spammer" surfnewsnospam.usenet.com wrote in message
...
On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 16:52:15 GMT, "Dimitri"
wrote:


"A1 WBarfieldsr" wrote in message
. ..

Baked Red Snapper with Garlic



I don't think this A1 guy with, (too much time on his hands) is
effecting your life in anyway.

Thanks, but I'm retired and have as much time on my hands as I please. That
Dimitri girl, with diarrhea of the mouth, is just a little girl wanting to
sound important. She doesn't bother me any. BTY I have never tried to run
this news group. I only shoot back when I'm shot at. I post recipes that I
think will taste good and are Mexican in origin. I did post a recipe for
Old Fashion Biscuits that got everyone stirred up. I can't for the life of
me understand why they just don't use their killfile to not read the
recipes that I post. If you don't like it, or me, don't read my post.
KISS!!! K eep I t S imple S tupid.
--

William Barfieldsr

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Old 02-11-2003, 10:13 PM
David Wright
 
Posts: n/a
Default Baked Red Snapper with Garlic

On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 21:03:09 GMT, "A1 WBarfieldsr"
wrote:




"anti spammer" surfnewsnospam.usenet.com wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 16:52:15 GMT, "Dimitri"
wrote:


"A1 WBarfieldsr" wrote in message
. ..

Baked Red Snapper with Garlic


I don't think this A1 guy with, (too much time on his hands) is
effecting your life in anyway.

Thanks, but I'm retired and have as much time on my hands as I please. That
Dimitri girl, with diarrhea of the mouth, is just a little girl wanting to
sound important. She doesn't bother me any. BTY I have never tried to run
this news group. I only shoot back when I'm shot at. I post recipes that I
think will taste good and are Mexican in origin. I did post a recipe for
Old Fashion Biscuits that got everyone stirred up. I can't for the life of
me understand why they just don't use their killfile to not read the
recipes that I post. If you don't like it, or me, don't read my post.
KISS!!! K eep I t S imple S tupid.
--

William Barfieldsr

Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
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You're a sad person. Goodbye.

David
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Old 02-11-2003, 10:21 PM
The Ranger
 
Posts: n/a
Default Baked Red Snapper with Garlic

An anonymous poster spewed in message
...
[snip forgettable drivel]

A one-time post from someone afraid to take ownership of their words;
unworthy of further note.

The Ranger


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Old 02-11-2003, 10:53 PM
Don H
 
Posts: n/a
Default Baked Red Snapper with Garlic

On Sun, 02 Nov 2003 21:03:09 GMT, "A1 WBarfieldsr"
wrote:




"
this news group. I only shoot back when I'm shot at. I post recipes that I
think will taste good and are Mexican in origin. I did post a recipe for
Old Fashion Biscuits that got everyone stirred up. I can't for the life of
me understand why they just don't use their killfile to not read the
recipes that I post. If you don't like it, or me, don't read my post.
KISS!!! K eep I t S imple S tupid.
--

William Barfieldsr

Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com


Mr Barfieldsr

I'm a longtime lurker in this newsgroup and have tested and enjoyed
many a recipe from you and other people in this group.
Keep up the good work,and don't let the superciliousness of David
or Dimitri's lack of maturity get you down. (Keep posting)

Don
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Old 03-11-2003, 04:46 PM
Dimitri
 
Posts: n/a
Default Baked Red Snapper with Garlic

I guess you've discovered a new source to rip off:

http://www.fish2go.com/recipes.htm

Since you have combined 2 recipes have you ever tried your own concoction?

Dimitri

"A1 WBarfieldsr" wrote in message
.. .

Baked Red Snapper with Garlic

1 (2-3 lb.) whole red snapper, cleaned
1 shallot, minced
salt and pepper to taste
4 Tbls. fresh lemon juice
2 tsp. lemon pulp, finely chopped
1 tsp. lemon zest, freshly grated
1 Tbls. bottled capers, drained and minced
2 Tbls. fresh parsley leaves, minced
1 Tbls. garlic, minced
3/4 tsp. seafood seasoning
4 Tbls. chilled unsalted butter, cut into pieces
6 fresh thyme sprigs
6 thin lemon slices
Enough butter to coat inside the foil.

In a small skillet heat 2 Tbls. butter over moderate heat until it begins
to brown and stir in shallot.
Cook shallot until softened but not browned, about 2 minutes.
Remove skillet from heat and stir in 2 Tbls. lemon juice.
In a small bowl stir together parsley, capers, lemon pulp, and zest.
Brush fish with butter mixture and sprinkle with salt, pepper, and parsley
mixture.
Place 24x18-inch piece of foil on heavy large baking sheet.
Butter foil and place the fish in the center.
Season cavity of fish with garlic, 2 Tbls. lemon juice and seafood
seasoning.
Dot cavity with butter.
Arrange thyme sprigs inside cavity.
Top with lemon slices.
Fold edges of foil over fish; seal.
Preheat oven to 350F.
Bake fish until cooked through, about 45 minutes.
Transfer fish to platter.
Open foil.
Servings: 4


--
William Barfieldsr






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Old 04-11-2003, 02:04 AM
Thurman
 
Posts: n/a
Default Baked Red Snapper with Garlic

Dimitri wrote:
I guess you've discovered a new source to rip off:

http://www.fish2go.com/recipes.htm

Since you have combined 2 recipes have you ever tried your own concoction?

Dimitri


It probably would be in most interests here just to
'forward' the recipes to the web masters at the appropriate
URLs.

A retired employee of a very large company was copying my
posts, substituting his name and publishing them as
originals in a company magazine.

The law is very clear and so am I. I just want his
retirement income for life.

  #12 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 04-11-2003, 04:03 AM
Angela Arnold
 
Posts: n/a
Default Baked Red Snapper with Garlic

Therein lies a problem. The man is not in violation of copyright laws
because he is posting recipes he finds on web sites, no more than
anyone else is for posting any recipe. You can not copyright a single
recipe, only a collection of published recipes in the form of a recipe
book. Meaning that someone could reprint or pass-on any recipe from
that book or source as long as they didn't copy the entire source
(book, web site, etc.) completely and exactly. You can not copyright a
fact or idea, only the manner in which they are presented and a recipe
falls under facts and ideas. Just like you can't copyright a song,
only the lyrics.
Even if there were copyright laws for single recipes, he still would
not be in violation because he is not reproducing them for profit, nor
is he claiming to be the author of the recipes. This is because there
are certain infringements that the copyright law excuses under the
doctrine of "fair use." In an effort to define fair use, the copyright
law provides a four-factor test and failure to obtain profit or
personal claim falls under one of these factors, thus making it
exempt.
Here are some links about copyright laws and recipes (among others).
http://www.uncletaz.com/backyard/entheta/copyrght.html
http://www.keytlaw.com/Copyrights/faqs.htm#q1
http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/octnews/oc020403.html
http://www.eff.org/IP/ip_and_electronic_data.paper
He is not in violation of any copyright laws, although there may be
something said about ethics. But, since he is not deriving anything
from posting these recipes and is only doing so for the benefit of
others, there is nothing unethical about it. Especially since he is
not depriving the authors of any income in doing so (these recipes are
free for anyone to read and use-the sites do not charge you to have
access to them.)
Angel
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Old 04-11-2003, 04:45 AM
Douglas S. Ladden
 
Posts: n/a
Default Baked Red Snapper with Garlic

Angela Arnold on 03 Nov 2003 suggested:

Therein lies a problem. The man is not in violation of copyright laws
because he is posting recipes he finds on web sites, no more than
anyone else is for posting any recipe. You can not copyright a single
recipe, only a collection of published recipes in the form of a recipe
book.


This is not a correct statement of the law, as it exists. A mere
listing of ingredients is not protected under copyright law. However,
where a recipe or formula is accompanied by substantial literary
expression in the form of an explanation or directions, or when there is
a collection of recipes as in a cookbook, there may be a basis for
copyright protection.

Meaning that someone could reprint or pass-on any recipe from
that book or source as long as they didn't copy the entire source
(book, web site, etc.) completely and exactly.


This is also not correct. Please see the "Fair Use" provision of
the Copyright Law, 17 USC 107.

You can not copyright a fact or idea, only the manner in which they
are presented and a recipe falls under facts and ideas.


The first two-thirds of the above sentence is correct, the
conclusion is not. Please see above. Where the idea and the expression
are inseperable, as in a mere list of ingredients, there is no
protection, but where directions on how to mix the ingredients are
included, there can be multiple ways of expressing those directions, and
thus, there is originality of work, giving rise to Copyright protection.

Just like you can't copyright a song, only the lyrics.


This is CLEARLY not correct. Please see Title 17 of the US Code,
sections 102(a)(2) and 102(a)(7), which specifically list, "(2) musical
works, including any accompanying words", AND "(7) sound recordings".

Even if there were copyright laws for single recipes, he still would
not be in violation because he is not reproducing them for profit


Completely irrelevant. The mere act of copying without
authorization, or violating any of the other rights specified in
sections 106 to 122 of Title 17, is sufficient to trigger an
infringement of Copyright. Please see Section 501 of Title 17.
Commercial gain is only relevant for CRIMINAL copyright infringement,
please see Section 506 of Title 17.

Since he is willfully posting these recipes which he knows or
should know are protected by copyright, he is subject to the statutory
damages of $150,000 per work infringed.

nor is he claiming to be the author of the recipes.


Irrelevant. See above.

This is because there
are certain infringements that the copyright law excuses under the
doctrine of "fair use." In an effort to define fair use, the copyright
law provides a four-factor test and failure to obtain profit or
personal claim falls under one of these factors, thus making it
exempt.


That is a tremendous oversimplification, and an erroneous one at
that. There are four factors which must be considered, but it isn't a
"test". It's a balancing act.

Here are some links about copyright laws and recipes (among others).
http://www.uncletaz.com/backyard/entheta/copyrght.html
http://www.keytlaw.com/Copyrights/faqs.htm#q1
http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/octnews/oc020403.html
http://www.eff.org/IP/ip_and_electronic_data.paper


You're better off going to the source, the Copyright Office
itself: http://www.loc.gov/copyright/

He is not in violation of any copyright laws, although there may be
something said about ethics.


I would disagree with your analysis and conclusion, as it does not
comport with the law as it stands. He is clearly infringing on the
Copyrights of the authors, and he is not doing so within the "Fair Use"
provisions of the law.

But, since he is not deriving anything
from posting these recipes and is only doing so for the benefit of
others, there is nothing unethical about it.


Again, derivation of profit is irrelevant for civil infringement,
and the fact that he's doing it for the benefit of others is also
irrelevent. If you don't believe me, look at the RIAA lawsuits busting
all those people sharing their music for the benefit of others.

Especially since he is
not depriving the authors of any income in doing so (these recipes are
free for anyone to read and use-the sites do not charge you to have
access to them.)


But he DOES deprive the authors/owners of the website of income,
by not properly attributing the source, and eliminating the need for
people who seek such recipes from going to that site, and clicking on
the ads from which the web owners derive their income.

--Douglas
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Old 04-11-2003, 05:33 AM
Misschef
 
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Default Baked Red Snapper with Garlic

I snipped everything. It can all be read in the last post.

Bravo, Douglas! You gooooooo, guy!! Very interesting and enlightening
info! Can't wait to get to the library and look all this stuff up.
I have worked very hard to perfect my own recipes and would be very offended
(to say the least) if they were plagiarized. I hope to compile them all one
day and write a cookbook. (like there's not enough cookbooks out there) But
alas, being a chef, my time is consumed with preparing food for the masses.
No time for writing, editing, etc. It's nice to know that one day, if I do
find time for it, I am protected. I have commited about 300 recipes to text
over the 23 years "in the biz".
Those people who just copy/paste recipes really make me mad. It takes a lot
of work to put together food in a way that is pleasing to others. This is my
livelihood, my income, my career! To all those who copy
recipes...........don't sit back in your easychair and think this is just
good fun. If you are truely interested in food, go out there and get
involved with it! Travel to the places that the food you love originates
from! Taste it! Talk to the cook! Come up with your own innovations! Be
creative!

Ok...enough of my tirade.
happy cooking........Misschef


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Old 04-11-2003, 05:46 AM
Angela Arnold
 
Posts: n/a
Default Baked Red Snapper with Garlic

Douglas,
You really need to follow your own advice. Below are excerpts from the web
site link you posted.

Section 107 contains a list of the various purposes for which the
reproduction of a particular work may be considered "fair," such as
criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research.
Section 107 also sets out four factors to be considered in determining
whether or not a particular use is fair:

1.the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of
commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;

2.the nature of the copyrighted work;

3.amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the
copyrighted work as a whole; and

4.the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the
copyrighted work.
http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html
This is the "fair use" factors I was quoting from in my original post.

Exempt from copyright:
Mere listings of ingredients, as in recipes, labels, or formulas. When a
recipe or formula is accompanied by explanation or directions, the text
directions may be copyrightable, but the recipe or formula itself remains
uncopyrightable.
http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ34.html


Mere listings of ingredients as in recipes, formulas, compounds or
prescriptions are not subject to copyright protection. However, where a
recipe or formula is accompanied by substantial literary expression in the
form of an explanation or directions, or when there is a combination of
recipes, as in a cookbook, there *may be* a basis for copyright protection.

Protection under the copyright law (title 17 of the United States Code,
section 102) extends only to "original works of authorship" that are fixed
in a tangible form (a copy). "Original" means merely that the author
produced the work *by his own intellectual effort*, as distinguished from
copying an existing work. Copyright protection may extend to a description,
explanation, or illustration, assuming that the requirements of the
copyright law are met.
http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl122.html
Since very few recipe directions are actually original, (as anybody knows if
they have ever baked or cooked a lot), this would have to be one very unique
recipe.
There are only so many ways you can prepare foods and many ingredients have
to be combined in certain ways in order for them to work properly.

As for your statement:
"But he DOES deprive the authors/owners of the website of income,
by not properly attributing the source, and eliminating the need for
people who seek such recipes from going to that site, and clicking on
the ads from which the web owners derive their income."
Most people looking for recipes do NOT go to the web site in order to click
on the banner ads. Actually, I have yet to meet anyone who even clicks on
banner ads, due to the risk of virus infection and also because most banners
are complete crap and are akin to SPAM.
Angel


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