On Sun, 17 Jul 2011 19:37:56 -0700, "Julie Bove"
> wrote:

>Jean B. wrote:
>> Julie Bove wrote:
>>> "Jean B." > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> Julie Bove wrote:
>>>>> "Ranée at Arabian Knits" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>> In article
>>>>>> >,
>>>>>> Miche > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Only part of the year. But if there's cloud cover we don't go
>>>>>>> indoors,
>>>>>> I grew up in a place where it rained most of the time from the
>>>>>> end of October through the beginning of April. If we had not
>>>>>> gone outside then, well, I think life would have been miserable. Rich
>>>>>> and I used to go on walks in the rain. It was fun. We
>>>>>> didn't need no stinking umbrellas. Where we used to live it
>>>>>> didn't rain as much, but it was overcast quite a lot and if we
>>>>>> didn't let our children outside then, they would have spent most
>>>>>> of their lives indoors. I will admit to their being somewhat
>>>>>> wimpy about the rain now, but that is because we have moved to a
>>>>>> desert where the sun is out 300 days a year, so even a little
>>>>>> rain is weird to them now. Here, it generally comes with wind,
>>>>>> thunder and lightning, too.
>>>>> I guess some people like being outdoors. I don't and my daughter
>>>>> doesn't either. We have a gardener now so no need to do yard
>>>>> work. Pretty much the only time we go out there and stay out
>>>>> there is when it is too hot in the house and we are driven out to
>>>>> the front yard where there is shade and it is cooler. But with
>>>>> the way this summer is going that's not going to happen any time
>>>>> soon.
>>>> BUT... your daughter probably got that dislike from YOU! And that
>>>> dislike is not healthy. Other than that...
>>>
>>> Why do you say that? I don't think being outdoors is a healthy
>>> thing at all. Yes, we need some sunlight for vitamin D. But I can
>>> do without all the pollen and pollution and I burn very easily.
>>>
>>> My husband loves being outdoors. I don't know why.
>>>
>>> My daughter doesn't like it because of the bugs and the dirt. She
>>> goes around looking for bugs and then complains when she sees them. Slugs
>>> are also common in this area and she doesn't like them either.
>>>
>>>
>> The exercise factor? The aforementioned sunlight? I think
>> walking is also good for one's mental health, creativity, etc.
>> Unplug, walk, think, observe. It's all good.
>
>I simply can not walk very fast or very far. I do not like being outside
>and breathing in all the car fumes and pollen. We live on a very busy
>street and trust me there is nothing interesting to see.

Um, why did you choose to live there?

On 17/07/2011 11:03 PM, Julie Bove wrote:

>>> My daughter doesn't like it because of the bugs and the dirt. She
>>> goes around looking for bugs and then complains when she sees them. Slugs
>>> are also common in this area and she doesn't like them either.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Who`d have thought that you would come up with good reasons not to go
>> outside and get some exercise. Bugs and slugs? Hell,. I don't blame
>> you. I have never been attacked by a slug but I imagine that they can
>> be vicious.
>
> One doesn't need to go outside to exercise. Prior to her injury she was
> taking 12 hours of dance per week. Now she can not stand up for long or
> walk very far without pain. She sees the Dr. again towards the end of
> August. She is restricted and wearing a corset until then.
>
>


It`s true that you don`t need to go outside for exercise. You can get a
tread mill, a cross trainer or a stationary bicycle, but my bet is that
the more common past time is computer, video game or television. And
that gets us back to why so many kids these days are fat.

On 18/07/2011 2:30 PM, Ranée at Arabian Knits wrote:

>> Me too. The town that we lived in when I was a kid was about 15 miles
>> outside of Toronto. There were shopping plazas within a few miles and we
>> could be downtown in 15-20 minutes. When I was a teen we moved to a
>> small city in Niagara but were in the very edge if it. Across the street
>> I had fields and forests to roam. A few years after we got married we
>> moved to this town. It is 3 miles into town, and there are three small
>> cities within a 20 minute drive.
>
> We loved our small town where we used to live, but part of that was
> that it was so close to larger cities. We had the convenience,
> availability and cultural opportunities, without the crime, traffic,
> hassle, etc. Because Rich worked in our town, we never even had to be
> on the road during the commute times. We thought living in a small town
> would prepare us for this town, but this small town _is_ the big town in
> the area. That is hard.


I had an interesting conversation with one of my wife's old classmates
at a reunion of some type years ago. She asked my wife if she didn't
miss all the benefits of the city, the shopping, museums, restaurants,
galleries etc. I carefully quizzed her about how often she did no
those things. We used to drive into the city almost every weekend. We
would visit my wife's parents, park our car there and travel around the
city by subway. We would go downtown and go our separate ways and then
meet up at the museum or art gallery or some other interesting place.
Then we could head down to the market and pick up something interesting
for dinner and head home.

We had an out of town membership to the museum, which was cheap and gave
us free admission. We had a membership at the local art gallery and that
gave us free admission to the art gallery in the city. We saw several
plays there every year and we ate a lot of lunches and dinners in the
downtown restaurants.

It took that woman about 45 minutes to drive downtown from her house in
the burbs. We could be downtown in an hour and a quarter. As it turned
out, we were downtown in her city a lot more often than she was, saw
more theatre than she did and saw a lot more of the art gallery and museum.

"Ranée at Arabian Knits" > wrote in message
...

> We're an hour and a half from any city of any size. We were seven
> minutes from one before. We don't blink at driving an hour or more to
> go to a decent grocery store now, because that's what it takes. We use
> a lot more mail order than we used to do. We haven't been to a ballet
> (except our daughter's recitals), a symphony or any other such
> performance in more than two years. We used to be about 10 minutes from
> a good zoo and botanical park, I don't even know how far we'd have to
> drive to get to one now. We didn't just move a little ways away.

What are your option for moving to a place you prefer?

On 18/07/2011 3:01 PM, Janet wrote:

>
>>> So? Kids in cold cloudy climates play outside.
>>
>> I don't see too many kids playing outside here.
>
> I do here. It's the norm. They play football and ride their bikes and
> skateboards, fly kites or just run about. My kids were rarely indoors
> (outside of school). It's also considered normal for adults here to be
> active outdoors (summer and winter, sun wind and rain). On Saturday we
> went for a two hour walk in torrential rain and thoroughly enjoyed it


Thanks to a serious bout of surgery last November, I spent more time
inside that I had ever spent in my life. I probably watched more day
time TV in a day than I had in the rest of my life. I was parked in a
LazyBoy in front of the TV with XBox and laptop in within reach. I was
was surprised at the number of people I saw walking or cycling by, rain
or shine, even in the snow. Most of them are adults, but there are some
teens too. It is country, so there aren't that many young kids on this
road. It is a little risky for them due to traffic.

On 18/07/2011 3:01 PM, Janet wrote:

> Just because you like it
>> doesn't mean everybody does! Is the child supposed to do their homework
>> outdoors too? When my daughter was younger she had at least 2 hours of
>> homework per night, very little of which could be done outdoor. Much of it
>> had to be done on the computer.
>
> IIRC, you told us you had sidelined her schooling for the sake of
> dancing.
>
>


It's hard to keep her stories straight, but it is interesting to see the
excuses.

Julie Bove wrote:
> Jean B. wrote:
>> Julie Bove wrote:
>>> "Jean B." > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> Julie Bove wrote:
>>>>> That's not true. I wouldn't go outside to play when it was cold
>>>>> and rainy nor would my mother let me. My daughter HATES playing
>>>>> outside. Too many bugs and too much dirt.
>>>> Oh, that's funny to me. My mom insisted that I go outside, even
>>>> when it was bitterly cold out. Of course, no one else was out
>>>> under such circumstances, so that was rather boring.
>>>>
>>>>> We have sidewalks here. We've had two out of control cars in the
>>>>> past few years go up onto the sidewalk. My husband's car was hit
>>>>> and then the neighbor two doors down. Drunk drivers.
>>>> At what hour was this? One can't live like a hot house plant just
>>>> because something like this might happen!
>>>>> It is not safe to let kids play outside alone because there are
>>>>> just too many weirdos out there. And too much lack of police. We
>>>>> don't live in the city limits. There is a park across the street
>>>>> from us. No way would I let my daughter go there without me. Too
>>>>> much drug activity going on. Oh and the gangs have tagged this
>>>>> area now too.
>>>> Well, gangs are another thing. Yeah, those would be dangerous.
>>> We live in the suburbs. There is really no reason for us to be going
>>> outside or crossing streets. Yes there is a park across the street.
>>> If you are underage and in need of beer that's where you go to get
>>> it. Want illegal drugs? You can get those there too. So that's a
>>> street we don't need to be crossing. There is really nothing here
>>> within walking distance and although our particular street has
>>> sidewalks there is nobody on the other side of the street that we
>>> would visit. Go to the next busy cross street and you lose the
>>> sidewalks. Yes, some people walk down there. I have almost hit
>>> people walking there countless times. It's just not safe. We drive
>>> everywhere we need to go. The closest grocery store is a
>>> good 2 miles from here. The school is about 6 as is the dance
>>> studio and my parents live 9 miles from here.
>>>
>>>
>> Huh? I lived in a suburb growing up, lived in one again since my
>> daughter was 3, and live in another one now. One reason is to
>> walk simply for the sake of walking.
>
> Well perhaps you are not disabled. I am. So I only walk when I have to
> walk because it is very difficult for me to do.
>
>
Well, that does make a difference. Is your daughter also disabled?

--
Jean B.

Janet wrote:
> In article >, says...
>> Janet wrote:
>>> In article >,
>>> says...
>>>> "Giusi" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> "Polly Esther" > ha scritto nel messaggio
>>>>> ...
>>>>>> What do you think about this? Yesterday ABC news was talking
>>>>>> about a Harvard professor who suggests the gov't should take kids
>>>>>> away from their parents if the chunky little darlings are over
>>>>>> weight. Sounds like a plan to me but what is the state going to
>>>>>> do with them when they take them? Here's a bit of the report
>>>>>> http://www.imperfectparent.com/topic...bese-children/
>>>>>> Polly
>>>>> I think it's not just parents but the culture at fault. When kids
>>>>> ran outside to play kick the can and could ride their bikes for
>>>>> miles to go fishing, they were less fat. We sell them Nintendo,
>>>>> Wii, PlayStation, and gear movies and TV to 12 year old boys and
>>>>> what do you think will happen?
>>>> Kids can not do those sorts of things any more in many places
>>>> because it is just not safe to do so.
>>> Then their parents could supervise, or arrange supervision.
>>>
>>>
>>>> And here it is cold and cloudy much of the time.
>>> So? Kids in cold cloudy climates play outside.
>> I don't see too many kids playing outside here.
>
> I do here. It's the norm. They play football and ride their bikes and
> skateboards, fly kites or just run about. My kids were rarely indoors
> (outside of school). It's also considered normal for adults here to be
> active outdoors (summer and winter, sun wind and rain). On Saturday we
> went for a two hour walk in torrential rain and thoroughly enjoyed it
> despite getting soaked.
>
>
> Janet
>
I really envy your walking culture. I wish we had more of that
here... Not that that precludes my walking, of course.

--
Jean B.

Brooklyn1 wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Jul 2011 19:37:56 -0700, "Julie Bove"
> > wrote:
>
>> Jean B. wrote:
>>> Julie Bove wrote:
>>>> "Jean B." > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> Julie Bove wrote:
>>>>>> "Ranée at Arabian Knits" > wrote in
>>>>>> message
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>> In article
>>>>>>> >,
>>>>>>> Miche > wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Only part of the year. But if there's cloud cover we don't go
>>>>>>>> indoors,
>>>>>>> I grew up in a place where it rained most of the time from the
>>>>>>> end of October through the beginning of April. If we had not
>>>>>>> gone outside then, well, I think life would have been
>>>>>>> miserable. Rich and I used to go on walks in the rain. It was
>>>>>>> fun. We
>>>>>>> didn't need no stinking umbrellas. Where we used to live it
>>>>>>> didn't rain as much, but it was overcast quite a lot and if we
>>>>>>> didn't let our children outside then, they would have spent most
>>>>>>> of their lives indoors. I will admit to their being somewhat
>>>>>>> wimpy about the rain now, but that is because we have moved to a
>>>>>>> desert where the sun is out 300 days a year, so even a little
>>>>>>> rain is weird to them now. Here, it generally comes with wind,
>>>>>>> thunder and lightning, too.
>>>>>> I guess some people like being outdoors. I don't and my daughter
>>>>>> doesn't either. We have a gardener now so no need to do yard
>>>>>> work. Pretty much the only time we go out there and stay out
>>>>>> there is when it is too hot in the house and we are driven out to
>>>>>> the front yard where there is shade and it is cooler. But with
>>>>>> the way this summer is going that's not going to happen any time
>>>>>> soon.
>>>>> BUT... your daughter probably got that dislike from YOU! And
>>>>> that dislike is not healthy. Other than that...
>>>>
>>>> Why do you say that? I don't think being outdoors is a healthy
>>>> thing at all. Yes, we need some sunlight for vitamin D. But I can
>>>> do without all the pollen and pollution and I burn very easily.
>>>>
>>>> My husband loves being outdoors. I don't know why.
>>>>
>>>> My daughter doesn't like it because of the bugs and the dirt. She
>>>> goes around looking for bugs and then complains when she sees
>>>> them. Slugs are also common in this area and she doesn't like them
>>>> either.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> The exercise factor? The aforementioned sunlight? I think
>>> walking is also good for one's mental health, creativity, etc.
>>> Unplug, walk, think, observe. It's all good.
>>
>> I simply can not walk very fast or very far. I do not like being
>> outside and breathing in all the car fumes and pollen. We live on a
>> very busy street and trust me there is nothing interesting to see.
>
> Um, why did you choose to live there?

I didn't really. It was all that we could afford.

Dave Smith wrote:
> On 17/07/2011 11:03 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>
>>>> My daughter doesn't like it because of the bugs and the dirt. She
>>>> goes around looking for bugs and then complains when she sees
>>>> them. Slugs are also common in this area and she doesn't like them
>>>> either.
>>>
>>> Who`d have thought that you would come up with good reasons not to
>>> go outside and get some exercise. Bugs and slugs? Hell,. I don't
>>> blame you. I have never been attacked by a slug but I imagine that
>>> they can be vicious.
>>
>> One doesn't need to go outside to exercise. Prior to her injury she
>> was taking 12 hours of dance per week. Now she can not stand up for
>> long or walk very far without pain. She sees the Dr. again towards
>> the end of August. She is restricted and wearing a corset until
>> then.
>
>
> It`s true that you don`t need to go outside for exercise. You can get
> a tread mill, a cross trainer or a stationary bicycle, but my bet is
> that the more common past time is computer, video game or television.
> And that gets us back to why so many kids these days are fat.

The only video game we have is the Wii and you have to be active to use
that.

My daughter has all kinds of exercise equipement. She can't exercise now
with the injury but normally that is what she does when she watches TV.
Just as I did when I was a kid.

Janet wrote:
> In article >,
> says...
>>
>> Janet wrote:
>>> In article >,
>>> says...
>>>>
>>>> "Goomba" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> Julie Bove wrote:
>>>>>> Giusi wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> My point is that no one can do it except the citizens. The
>>>>>>> culture has to make having good neighborhoods, having help for
>>>>>>> delinquents and addicts, watching out for each other and being
>>>>>>> helpful has to be more important than a motorhome or a fishing
>>>>>>> boat or an SUV or a 42" flat screen TV. If the neighborhood is
>>>>>>> going to hell in a handbasket, the government cannot fix it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Where is all this money going to come from to do that?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are no motorhomes or boats in this neighborhood.
>>>>> How much money does it cost for parents to hang out outside,
>>>>> perhaps getting to know each other while at the same time
>>>>> watching the kids play together. That's free, yet can also be
>>>>> priceless.
>>>>> Do you *always* have an excuse why things can't happen? That's
>>>>> your troll schtick...right?
>>>>
>>> Then they must be paying a childminder, who could mind the child
>>> outdoors.
>>
>> Why do you people love the outdoors so much?
>
> For the same reason I like staying as healthy as possible.
>
> Just because you like it
>> doesn't mean everybody does! Is the child supposed to do their
>> homework outdoors too? When my daughter was younger she had at
>> least 2 hours of homework per night, very little of which could be
>> done outdoor. Much of it had to be done on the computer.
>
> IIRC, you told us you had sidelined her schooling for the sake of
> dancing.

Bull! I NEVER said that!

Dave Smith wrote:
> On 18/07/2011 3:01 PM, Janet wrote:
>
>> Just because you like it
>>> doesn't mean everybody does! Is the child supposed to do their
>>> homework outdoors too? When my daughter was younger she had at
>>> least 2 hours of homework per night, very little of which could be
>>> done outdoor. Much of it had to be done on the computer.
>>
>> IIRC, you told us you had sidelined her schooling for the sake of
>> dancing.
>>
>>
>
>
> It's hard to keep her stories straight, but it is interesting to see
> the excuses.

She is lying. I never ever said that.

Janet wrote:
> In article >,
> says...
>>
>> Janet wrote:
>>> In article >,
>>> says...
>>>>
>>>> "Giusi" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>> "Polly Esther" > ha scritto nel messaggio
>>>>> ...
>>>>>> What do you think about this? Yesterday ABC news was talking
>>>>>> about a Harvard professor who suggests the gov't should take kids
>>>>>> away from their parents if the chunky little darlings are over
>>>>>> weight. Sounds like a plan to me but what is the state going to
>>>>>> do with them when they take them? Here's a bit of the report
>>>>>> http://www.imperfectparent.com/topic...bese-children/
>>>>>> Polly
>>>>>
>>>>> I think it's not just parents but the culture at fault. When kids
>>>>> ran outside to play kick the can and could ride their bikes for
>>>>> miles to go fishing, they were less fat. We sell them Nintendo,
>>>>> Wii, PlayStation, and gear movies and TV to 12 year old boys and
>>>>> what do you think will happen?
>>>>
>>>> Kids can not do those sorts of things any more in many places
>>>> because it is just not safe to do so.
>>>
>>> Then their parents could supervise, or arrange supervision.
>>>
>>>
>>>> And here it is cold and cloudy much of the time.
>>>
>>> So? Kids in cold cloudy climates play outside.
>>
>> I don't see too many kids playing outside here.
>
> I do here. It's the norm. They play football and ride their bikes and
> skateboards, fly kites or just run about. My kids were rarely indoors
> (outside of school). It's also considered normal for adults here to be
> active outdoors (summer and winter, sun wind and rain). On Saturday we
> went for a two hour walk in torrential rain and thoroughly enjoyed it
> despite getting soaked.

You can't fly kites here. Too many lines up in the sky to snag them.

Jean B. wrote:
> Julie Bove wrote:

>> Well perhaps you are not disabled. I am. So I only walk when I have
>> to walk because it is very difficult for me to do.
>>
> Well, that does make a difference. Is your daughter also disabled?
>
Well, if she's not now, her mother sounds like she is doing her best to
make her so (in so many ways). IMO, of course.

On 18/07/2011 5:58 PM, Jean B. wrote:

>> Well perhaps you are not disabled. I am. So I only walk when I have to
>> walk because it is very difficult for me to do.
>>
> Well, that does make a difference. Is your daughter also disabled?
>

She can't be. We were told recently that she is a dancer.

On 18/07/2011 6:12 PM, Julie Bove wrote:

>>
>> It`s true that you don`t need to go outside for exercise. You can get
>> a tread mill, a cross trainer or a stationary bicycle, but my bet is
>> that the more common past time is computer, video game or television.
>> And that gets us back to why so many kids these days are fat.
>
> The only video game we have is the Wii and you have to be active to use
> that.
>
> My daughter has all kinds of exercise equipement. She can't exercise now
> with the injury but normally that is what she does when she watches TV.
> Just as I did when I was a kid.
>
>

You had Wii when you were a kid? Lucky you? Up here in the boonies there
was no Wii until a few years ago.

"Goomba" > wrote in message
...
> Jean B. wrote:
>> Julie Bove wrote:
>
>>> Well perhaps you are not disabled. I am. So I only walk when I have to
>>> walk because it is very difficult for me to do.
>>>
>> Well, that does make a difference. Is your daughter also disabled?
>>
> Well, if she's not now, her mother sounds like she is doing her best to
> make her so (in so many ways). IMO, of course.

She has a near stress fracture at her 5th lumbar at the moment. She is in a
corset and on limited activity. Most likely from too much dance or perhaps
from running in gym class. We don't know the cause of the injury but the
pain started in dance class. So yes. At the moment she is disabled. But
normally? No. That still doesn't mean she needs to walk. She is plenty
active.

"Dave Smith" > wrote in message
. com...
> On 18/07/2011 5:58 PM, Jean B. wrote:
>
>>> Well perhaps you are not disabled. I am. So I only walk when I have to
>>> walk because it is very difficult for me to do.
>>>
>> Well, that does make a difference. Is your daughter also disabled?
>>
>
> She can't be. We were told recently that she is a dancer.

Currently out with a near stress fracture in her back. So now, yes. But
normally no. That still doesn't mean she will be any healthier if she goes
outside and walks.

"Dave Smith" > wrote in message
. com...
> On 18/07/2011 6:12 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>
>>>
>>> It`s true that you don`t need to go outside for exercise. You can get
>>> a tread mill, a cross trainer or a stationary bicycle, but my bet is
>>> that the more common past time is computer, video game or television.
>>> And that gets us back to why so many kids these days are fat.
>>
>> The only video game we have is the Wii and you have to be active to use
>> that.
>>
>> My daughter has all kinds of exercise equipement. She can't exercise now
>> with the injury but normally that is what she does when she watches TV.
>> Just as I did when I was a kid.
>>
>>
>
> You had Wii when you were a kid? Lucky you? Up here in the boonies there
> was no Wii until a few years ago.

No. I said I did exercises while watching TV.

Dave Smith wrote:
> On 18/07/2011 5:58 PM, Jean B. wrote:
>
>>> Well perhaps you are not disabled. I am. So I only walk when I have to
>>> walk because it is very difficult for me to do.
>>>
>> Well, that does make a difference. Is your daughter also disabled?
>>
>
> She can't be. We were told recently that she is a dancer.

I could say something, but I will refrain.

--
Jean B.

Ranée at Arabian Knits > wrote:

> All of our babies have been long and thin. Our children stay pretty
> thin, too. It freaks the doctors out.

Have you all been screened for Marfan?


Steve

Julie Bove > wrote:

>Jean B. wrote:

>> Steve Pope wrote:

>>> Where Julie is, there is a huge amount of dust and dirt in the
>>> outside air. This is due to poor soil-conservation practices,
>>> overgrazing, underregulated construction activities, etc. The ground
>>> has all been torn up and stripped of its native vegetation. This is
>>> true for hundreds of miles in every direction. It is also an
>>> exceptionally windy area.

>>> So the outside environment is in fact pretty disgusting around there,
>>> as the result of a man-made situation.

>> I have not absorbed where Julie is.

>Bothell WA but outside city limits. Closer to Mill Creek.

I knew that, but when I wrote the above I was confused and was
thinking about Dallas instead.

Bothell is not quite as bad as I made it out. :-)



Steve

"Steve Pope" > wrote in message
...
> Julie Bove > wrote:
>
>>Jean B. wrote:
>
>>> Steve Pope wrote:
>
>>>> Where Julie is, there is a huge amount of dust and dirt in the
>>>> outside air. This is due to poor soil-conservation practices,
>>>> overgrazing, underregulated construction activities, etc. The ground
>>>> has all been torn up and stripped of its native vegetation. This is
>>>> true for hundreds of miles in every direction. It is also an
>>>> exceptionally windy area.
>
>>>> So the outside environment is in fact pretty disgusting around there,
>>>> as the result of a man-made situation.
>
>>> I have not absorbed where Julie is.
>
>>Bothell WA but outside city limits. Closer to Mill Creek.
>
> I knew that, but when I wrote the above I was confused and was
> thinking about Dallas instead.
>
> Bothell is not quite as bad as I made it out. :-)

I wondered about the windy part because IMO it isn't normally that windy
here but we can have high winds at times. And I don't it's all that dusty
but... There is a lot of construction around here and the guy on the one
side of me hasn't mown his yard in over a year. Seriously! Normally he
mows once a year on July 3 but he hasn't done it. I did see on Zillow.com
that there is a house on this block that has been foreclosed on. I believe
it is his house because the description fits. He took a teensy house and
tried to make it into a huge house but ran out of money over a year ago.
Nothing is done about it and the way he went about it made no sense. He put
up vinyl siding over the lower half and then even painted it! But only
Tyvek on the upper story and that has long since blown away when we did get
high winds.

Anyway... His lawn scares me. The grass was almost as tall as I was but
then the heavy rain bent it over. I don't think there is anything I can do
about it either. We are not in the city limits so their rules do not apply.
Just on the other side of the nearest busy street there are such strict
regulations that you can not even have clover in your grass. But here
apparently anything goes.

On 7/17/2011 10:30 AM, Jean B. wrote:

>>
>>> More recently, I had the definite impression that unless the kids live
>>> practically next door to each other, one has to make appointments (aka
>>> [play dates). And that kind-of segues into another related issue: the
>>> over-scheduling of kids. I guess I was, once again, a rebel when it came
>>> to that. I think kids need downtime, time to think, to be creative. It
>>> doesn't have to be go, go, go all the time.
>>



Today's parents want everything for their kids that they feel they
missed. As a result, many kids play at least one sport every season,
music lessons, scouting, religion classes, extra coaching or tutoring,
art, academic competitions and, incredibly, one or more birthday parties
for friends or classmates every weekend. Imagine doing that for 3 or 4
children for what feels like forever.

gloria p











n

"Ranée at Arabian Knits" > ha scritto nel messaggio
> Yes. The facility was bought by another government agency which got
> rid of the manger's position there, as well as at another similar
> facility and at a ferry. Then made a new position for the manager of
> all three. Rich started looking elsewhere when they made that
> announcement. The closest two places were 30 minutes apart with no
> traffic. His job was already more than full time. Trying to add two
> other places would have done nobody any good, especially when adding in
> travel time. And, no, they did not propose to hire any more support
> staff. The person who got the job ended up being an embezzler and liar
> and thief. He was fired. Then, they put someone who had run a sewer in
> charge.

Gee, if I didn't know who and where you were I would think you were talking
about our government here. They haven't even actually run a sewer.

In article , says...

Don't forget the kids who are walking home or outdoors playing and wind
up missing, dead, and dismembered.

Have you personally known or met any family that happened to? I
haven't; neither in social or work life.

Times, neighborhoods, and crazy
people have changed. And it's NOT just the ease of transmitting
information. Kidnapping used to be a rare and highly publicized event.
Now it's common enough to be pushed to page 3.

I think you'll find abductions are far commoner than ransom
kidnappings, and that most abductions involve a custody dispute between
the child's own parents. Divorce/separation child custody battles are
certainly more common than in my childhood.

I haven't personally known /met any family which has experienced a
child abduction or kidnap, either.

Janet

On Jul 20, 12:06*am, peterpan0305
> wrote:
> In article , says...
>
> Don't forget the kids who are walking home or outdoors playing and wind
>
> up missing, dead, and dismembered.
>
> Have you personally known or met any family that happened to? I
> haven't; neither in social or work life.
>
> Times, neighborhoods, and crazy
> people have changed. And it's NOT just the ease of transmitting
> information. Kidnapping used to be a rare and highly publicized event.
> Now it's common enough to be pushed to page 3.
>
> I think you'll find abductions are far commoner than ransom
> kidnappings, and that most abductions involve a custody dispute between
> the child's own parents. Divorce/separation child custody battles are
> certainly more common than in my childhood.

Ransom kidnappings in the USA are far rarer than death by lightning
strikes. It's a crime where one has almost zero chance of getting
away with it.
>
> I haven't personally known /met any family which has experienced a
> child abduction or kidnap, either.

The biggest threat to children is head injuries, mostly from biking or
skating w/o a helmet.
>
> Janet
>
--Bryan

"Ed Pawlowski" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Dave Smith" > wrote
>
>>
>> Who`d have thought that you would come up with good reasons not to go
>> outside and get some exercise. Bugs and slugs? Hell,. I don't blame you.
>> I have never been attacked by a slug but I imagine that they can be
>> vicious.
>
> A slug once chased me for half a block. I was lucky to reach a tree and
> climb into one of the higher branches. A neighbor finally trapped the
> slug in a jelly jar so I was able to come down. Now I carry a box of salt
> with me in case of another attack.

See that's why fat kids should be taken away, imagine not even being able to
outrun a slug : (

On Fri, 15 Jul 2011 10:43:39 +0200, "Giusi" >
wrote:

>
>"Julie Bove" > ha scritto nel messaggio
>> "Giusi" wrote in message
>
>
>>> I think it's not just parents but the culture at fault. When kids ran
>>> outside to play kick the can and could ride their bikes for miles to go
>>> fishing, they were less fat. We sell them Nintendo, Wii, PlayStation,
>>> and gear movies and TV to 12 year old boys and what do you think will
>>> happen?
>>
>> Kids can not do those sorts of things any more in many places because it
>> is just not safe to do so. And here it is cold and cloudy much of the
>> time. Nobody wants to hang around outside in conditions like that.
>
>What do you think they did before TV? I'll bet if you talk to someone over
>60 they'll tell you they did all the same games other kids did. Kids don't
>care about gloomy, grownups care.
>

True. I grew up in Seattle, and we played outside for hours at a time.
We played kickball in the intersection (2 slow streets). We played
various games within about 5 blocks of home most of the time. We did
not have to stay in the yard. In fact, I can't remember playing much
in the fenced back yard. Mostly in front of the house and nearby. We
had bikes, so we could go biking.

I remember we had to wait until 70 degrees or higher to get the
sprinkler out.

I used to walk the dog to a few stores about a mile from home. I don't
know when i started, but I was almost 10 when we moved. So, it was at
least a year before then. Probably earlier. I had a paper route when I
was 9, and I did it by myself.

These days, you can't let a kid go to the store by themself. You don't
even want them to play in the yard without being able to keep an eye
on them. I would never let a kid do the things today that seemed
perfectly safe back then. (I am 38 now).


I do think the streets where I grew up are still pretty safe. So, with
parental supervision, I could imagine kids still playing kickball in
the intersection there. Not where I live now though. And it is
probably harder for parents to hav ethe time for outdoor supervision
simply due to the current lifestyle. A lot fo families are single
parent households or both parents working. So, it would be harder to
have that kind of time and enegry. It is easier to play it safe and
keep the kids inside.

On Sun, 17 Jul 2011 18:52:05 +1200, Miche > wrote:

>In article >,
> "Julie Bove" > wrote:
>

>>
>> Why do you say that?
>
>Because the idea of someone not ever crossing a street just boggles my
>mind.
>


Same here. I do admit I do a lot of walking. I walk to work, and when
I was in college, I would walk to the park& ride, ride the bus to the
university, then walk around the campus and often places nearby.

But even if I never walked anywhere from home, I certainly have to
cross streets to go places.

When i had jury duty, the bus stops were than a block away from the
courtouse. Parking lots were further away too.

Just last week, we went to a cat show in Seaside, Oregon. The parking
lot was across the street from the show hall. We also won some gift
certificates for some local shops. There was very littel street
parking, so we parked in a lot a street over and down a block. It was
not a long walk at all, but we had to cross two streets. I can't
imagine anybody thinking that was a big deal. Or unusual.

On Sun, 17 Jul 2011 00:25:01 -0700, "Julie Bove"
> wrote:

>
>"Miche" > wrote in message
...
>> In article >,
>> "Julie Bove" > wrote:
>>
>>> "Miche" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>> >>
>>> >> And most likely she will be driving.
>>> >
>>> > Does she ever walk anywhere? Wow.
>>>
>>> No. Why would she?
>>
>> Because people walk places.
>
>Some people do. I don't really know many people who walk places. Maybe it
>is common where you are, but it sure isn't here. People use cars.
>>


People use cars fo rthe longer distances. They still have to walk to
get to places once they park. And they don't always drive to every
stop.

Don't you ever go shopping at stores along a street, where you have to
walk store to store? And you can't always park in front of the store?
Or there are more stores on the next block, and it would be silly to
repark the car a block down?

I live near Seattle too, and I bet most people would say they cross
the street at least a few times a week regardless of whether they walk
somewhere from home or not. The idea of never crossing streets on foot
is not typical.

On Fri, 15 Jul 2011 08:58:04 -0700, Ranée at Arabian Knits
> wrote:

>In article >,
> "Giusi" > wrote:
>
>> What do you think they did before TV? I'll bet if you talk to someone over
>> 60 they'll tell you they did all the same games other kids did. Kids don't
>> care about gloomy, grownups care.
>
> Our children were outside playing in below zero weather, just with
>snow suits, coats, hats and mittens/gloves on. :-)
>

I lived in Iowa for 4 years. I remember being upset that we were not
allowed to play outside if it was below zero. And the ice skating rink
was closed when it was below zero. It seemed so unfair.

We also had two sets of hat, coat, mittens, boots. We would come in
for a brek, change to a dry set and let the others dry off. We would
play in the snow for hours.

On Fri, 15 Jul 2011 21:34:10 -0700, "Julie Bove"
> wrote:


>
>Don't you live in a climate where it is warm? It's not often warm here.
>


Where are you from? When did you move to western washington?

Most people who grew up in the Seattle area are used to it and don't
see it as a problem. You sound like the peple who move here and then
complain about it being too cold.

People who grew up here wear shorts when it is 70 degrees and complain
that 85 is too hot. We melt at 90.

We don't carry umbrellas all the time, and we know that the stereotype
of rain all the time is not true.

I'm sorry, but I know you live reasonably close to me (less than an
hour's drive), yet you talk about it like it is a totally different
place. Cold and wet all the time and not worth going outside. I don't
see that at all.

On Sun, 17 Jul 2011 12:01:29 -0700, "Julie Bove"
> wrote:


>
>Why do you say that? I don't think being outdoors is a healthy thing at
>all. Yes, we need some sunlight for vitamin D. But I can do without all
>the pollen and pollution and I burn very easily.
>
>My husband loves being outdoors. I don't know why.
>
>My daughter doesn't like it because of the bugs and the dirt. She goes
>around looking for bugs and then complains when she sees them. Slugs are
>also common in this area and she doesn't like them either.
>


Sunblock works great. I have fair skin, and I never burn (or even tan)
when I use sunblock.

There is no need t o walk on dirt when outside. There are sidewalks,
grass, etc. You can bike, etc.

Bugs are usually not a poblem. If you have mosquitos, use a spray or
one of those repellant fans. The only time I notice bugs is when
working in the yard at dusk or going to NW Trek and hanging out in an
area with slow moving water.

Slugs are not usually visible unless you look for them. On rare
occasions, I see a slug on the walkway. Maybe one day a month. It's
really not a big deal.

If you hate western washington weather so much, why live here?

On Tue, 19 Jul 2011 05:05:39 +0000 (UTC),
(Steve Pope) wrote:

>Julie Bove > wrote:
>
>>Jean B. wrote:
>
>>> Steve Pope wrote:
>
>>>> Where Julie is, there is a huge amount of dust and dirt in the
>>>> outside air. This is due to poor soil-conservation practices,
>>>> overgrazing, underregulated construction activities, etc. The ground
>>>> has all been torn up and stripped of its native vegetation. This is
>>>> true for hundreds of miles in every direction. It is also an
>>>> exceptionally windy area.
>
>>>> So the outside environment is in fact pretty disgusting around there,
>>>> as the result of a man-made situation.
>
>>> I have not absorbed where Julie is.
>
>>Bothell WA but outside city limits. Closer to Mill Creek.
>
>I knew that, but when I wrote the above I was confused and was
>thinking about Dallas instead.
>
>Bothell is not quite as bad as I made it out. :-)
>
>

Definitely not! My brother has lived in Bothell for about 10 years.
He actually rents his place for outdoor weddings. It is very nice. My
nephew moved to Bothell a couple years ago. He likes it very much,
and he just lives in an apartment, nothing fancy.

On Sun, 17 Jul 2011 19:45:06 -0700, "Julie Bove"
> wrote:


>
>I guess when people don't have allergies they take these things for granted.
>And so far to date there has been no allergy med that has helped me. They
>either give side effects or do nothing at all. I have to wash my eyes at
>least once a day with baby shampoo to get the pollen out. Luckily the
>allergy eye drops do seem to help. So at least my eyes can get relief. But
>I am prone to hives in my eyes and that is no fun.
>


I have bad allergies, but I don't want to give up stuff because of
them. I use Alway eye drops and a gel on my nose that prevents a lot
of the allergic reactions that I would normally have.

On Sun, 17 Jul 2011 17:09:54 -0400, Dave Smith
> wrote:

>On 17/07/2011 3:01 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>
>>
>> Why do you say that? I don't think being outdoors is a healthy thing at
>> all. Yes, we need some sunlight for vitamin D. But I can do without all
>> the pollen and pollution and I burn very easily.
>>
>> My husband loves being outdoors. I don't know why.
>>
>> My daughter doesn't like it because of the bugs and the dirt. She goes
>> around looking for bugs and then complains when she sees them. Slugs are
>> also common in this area and she doesn't like them either.
>>
>>
>
>Who`d have thought that you would come up with good reasons not to go
>outside and get some exercise. Bugs and slugs? Hell,. I don't blame
>you. I have never been attacked by a slug but I imagine that they can be
>vicious.

You've got to be fast runner to get away from them.

"Meghan Noecker" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 17 Jul 2011 00:25:01 -0700, "Julie Bove"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>"Miche" > wrote in message
...
>>> In article >,
>>> "Julie Bove" > wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Miche" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>> >>
>>>> >> And most likely she will be driving.
>>>> >
>>>> > Does she ever walk anywhere? Wow.
>>>>
>>>> No. Why would she?
>>>
>>> Because people walk places.
>>
>>Some people do. I don't really know many people who walk places. Maybe
>>it
>>is common where you are, but it sure isn't here. People use cars.
>>>
>
>
> People use cars fo rthe longer distances. They still have to walk to
> get to places once they park. And they don't always drive to every
> stop.
>
> Don't you ever go shopping at stores along a street, where you have to
> walk store to store? And you can't always park in front of the store?
> Or there are more stores on the next block, and it would be silly to
> repark the car a block down?

No. I live in the suburbs. I try to avoid the mall but we do shop at
places like Fred Meyer, Target and Walmart. I can't walk a block. I am
disabled.
>
> I live near Seattle too, and I bet most people would say they cross
> the street at least a few times a week regardless of whether they walk
> somewhere from home or not. The idea of never crossing streets on foot
> is not typical.

It is for me and I asked my friend about this. She lives in Shoreline. She
said she never crosses the street unless she has to go to the 7-11 near her
house. I don't really know of too many people who live around here who need
to cross streets very often.

I was discussing this with my mom and she said she doesn't even know how to
cross a street now. I know there are neon flags in buckets on either side
of the crosswalk. I think you are supposed to pick one up and hold it out
in front of you as you cross and then put it in the bucket on the other
side. That's how dangerous it is to cross streets around here. We saw a
man almost get hit a few days ago just around the corner from here. The
woman making a right turn paid no attention to the crosswalk. He banged his
fist on her hood as she turned. She yelled at him. Like it was his fault!
He had the walk signal.

"Meghan Noecker" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 15 Jul 2011 21:34:10 -0700, "Julie Bove"
> > wrote:
>
>
>>
>>Don't you live in a climate where it is warm? It's not often warm here.
>>
>
>
> Where are you from? When did you move to western washington?

I was born in KS and moved out here with Boeing when I was 7. Much later I
married a man in the military and have lived in PA, MA, CA, NY and now back
here.
>
> Most people who grew up in the Seattle area are used to it and don't
> see it as a problem. You sound like the peple who move here and then
> complain about it being too cold.

Nope. However I can't stand heat or cold.
>
> People who grew up here wear shorts when it is 70 degrees and complain
> that 85 is too hot. We melt at 90.

True although I don't see too many wearing shorts. Just white pants. I've
seen a lot of those.
>
> We don't carry umbrellas all the time, and we know that the stereotype
> of rain all the time is not true.

I never use an umbrella. I did in NY though.
>
> I'm sorry, but I know you live reasonably close to me (less than an
> hour's drive), yet you talk about it like it is a totally different
> place. Cold and wet all the time and not worth going outside. I don't
> see that at all.

I didn't say it was wet all the time. It isn't. But it sure isn't sunny.

"Meghan Noecker" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 17 Jul 2011 12:01:29 -0700, "Julie Bove"
> > wrote:
>
>
>>
>>Why do you say that? I don't think being outdoors is a healthy thing at
>>all. Yes, we need some sunlight for vitamin D. But I can do without all
>>the pollen and pollution and I burn very easily.
>>
>>My husband loves being outdoors. I don't know why.
>>
>>My daughter doesn't like it because of the bugs and the dirt. She goes
>>around looking for bugs and then complains when she sees them. Slugs are
>>also common in this area and she doesn't like them either.
>>
>
>
> Sunblock works great. I have fair skin, and I never burn (or even tan)
> when I use sunblock.

Nope. Feels horrible. Blocks the vitamin D and gives me a rash. I hate
the stuff and rarely ever used it on my daughter.
>
> There is no need t o walk on dirt when outside. There are sidewalks,
> grass, etc. You can bike, etc.

I can't bike. And it isn't safe to ride a bike here. My husband has tried
and has almost been hit many times.
>
> Bugs are usually not a poblem. If you have mosquitos, use a spray or
> one of those repellant fans. The only time I notice bugs is when
> working in the yard at dusk or going to NW Trek and hanging out in an
> area with slow moving water.

I can't stand bug spray. Smells horrible and gives me a rash.
>
> Slugs are not usually visible unless you look for them. On rare
> occasions, I see a slug on the walkway. Maybe one day a month. It's
> really not a big deal.
>
Ha! I guess you've never been in my driveway. Or tried to lift the lid of
my trash can.

> If you hate western washington weather so much, why live here?

I don't hate it. I just don't want to be outdoors. Not here. Not there.
Not anywhere.