"Ophelia" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> "Goomba" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Julie Bove wrote:
>>> Giusi wrote:
>>>> "Julie Bove" > ha scritto nel messaggio
>>>>
>>>> Oh and you can't teach me anything. I'm 52.
>>>>
>>>> I am older than that and can and do still learn. I was older than 52
>>>> when I went to culinary school. I am learning another language.
>>>> Learning as you grow older is good for the brain and takes your mind
>>>> off yourself and your troubles.
>>>
>>> I didn't say I can't learn. It's just not up to you to teach me.
>> Do you suppose that the fact that you are near universally disliked and
>> disrespected might have anything to do with your attitude?
>
> That is very harsh

S'okay. I've rarely seen anything nice come out of her mouth so I can't say
that I like her at all.

In article >,
"Julie Bove" > wrote:

> "Miche" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >,
> > "Julie Bove" > wrote:
> >
> >> "Miche" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> > In article >,
> >> > "Julie Bove" > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> "Leonard Blaisdell" > wrote in message
> >> >> ...
> >> >> > In article >,
> >> >> > "Giusi" > wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> What do you think they did before TV? I'll bet if you talk to
> >> >> >> someone
> >> >> >> over
> >> >> >> 60 they'll tell you they did all the same games other kids did.
> >> >> >> Kids
> >> >> >> don't
> >> >> >> care about gloomy, grownups care.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > A couple of weeks ago, I took my granddaughters past a gas station.
> >> >> > I
> >> >> > told them that it was a trampoline park in 1962 when I was fifteen.
> >> >> > I
> >> >> > explained that lawsuits and insurance premiums killed all of the
> >> >> > trampoline parks off.
> >> >> > Today, in our local rag, I see that trampoline parks are making a
> >> >> > comeback. I suspect they won't be here for very long.
> >> >> > I miss the old days when local issues didn't become national laws.
> >> >> > I'm
> >> >> > amazed that kids can still ski without inciting a bad parenting rap.
> >> >>
> >> >> I think skiing is too dangerous and I wouldn't allow my daughter to do
> >> >> it.
> >> >> Thankfully she sees it as dangerous too.
> >> >
> >> > Goddamn. Do you hold her hand crossing the street too?
> >>
> >> She doesn't cross streets.
> >
> > She's going to have to leave your block sometime.
>
> And most likely she will be driving.

Does she ever walk anywhere? Wow.

> The last time I remember crossing a
> street was like...back in May when we went to another city for a dance show.
> It is just not something we have to do much of here. Most places have
> parking lots. That one did too but it was across the street.

Incredible.

Miche

--
Electricians do it in three phases

"Giusi" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Ed Pawlowski" > ha scritto nel messaggio news:7s-
>>
>> "Julie Bove" > wrote in message
>>> Giusi wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Oh and you can't teach me anything. I'm 52.
>>>>
>>>> I am older than that and can and do still learn. I was older than 52
>>>> when I went to culinary school. I am learning another language.
>>>> Learning as you grow older is good for the brain and takes your mind
>>>> off yourself and your troubles.
>>>
>>> I didn't say I can't learn. It's just not up to you to teach me.
>>>
>>
>> I've learned from just about everyone I've known. There are amazing
>> people in this world if you take the time to listen to them.
>
> And it takes a village. Ed, what would you like to know, other than how
> to be the mayor of a town in PA?
>
>

Interesting question. Often, I don't know what I'd like to know until after
I learned it. There are so many things in the universe we are not aware of!
One thing I learned though, people are far more important than any "things"
that may exist.

"Miche" > wrote in message
...
>>
>> And most likely she will be driving.
>
> Does she ever walk anywhere? Wow.

No. Why would she? Her school is far away and so is her dance studio. No
stores that she could walk to around here and she doesn't have any friends
that live near here. Not unless you consider 3 or 4 miles away to be
walking distance, which I don't. She does actually have one friend who
lives in an apartment near here but she is in Uganda for the summer and
outside of school they can rarely get together because my daughter is always
at the dance studio during the week and busy with other things over the
weekend.
>
>> The last time I remember crossing a
>> street was like...back in May when we went to another city for a dance
>> show.
>> It is just not something we have to do much of here. Most places have
>> parking lots. That one did too but it was across the street.
>
> Incredible.

Why do you say that?

"Ranée at Arabian Knits" > wrote in message
...
> In article
> >,
> Miche > wrote:
>
>> Only part of the year. But if there's cloud cover we don't go indoors,
>
> I grew up in a place where it rained most of the time from the end of
> October through the beginning of April. If we had not gone outside
> then, well, I think life would have been miserable. Rich and I used to
> go on walks in the rain. It was fun. We didn't need no stinking
> umbrellas. Where we used to live it didn't rain as much, but it was
> overcast quite a lot and if we didn't let our children outside then,
> they would have spent most of their lives indoors. I will admit to
> their being somewhat wimpy about the rain now, but that is because we
> have moved to a desert where the sun is out 300 days a year, so even a
> little rain is weird to them now. Here, it generally comes with wind,
> thunder and lightning, too.

I guess some people like being outdoors. I don't and my daughter doesn't
either. We have a gardener now so no need to do yard work. Pretty much the
only time we go out there and stay out there is when it is too hot in the
house and we are driven out to the front yard where there is shade and it is
cooler. But with the way this summer is going that's not going to happen
any time soon.

In article >,
"Julie Bove" > wrote:

> "Miche" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>
> >> And most likely she will be driving.
> >
> > Does she ever walk anywhere? Wow.
>
> No. Why would she?

Because people walk places.

> Her school is far away and so is her dance studio. No
> stores that she could walk to around here and she doesn't have any friends
> that live near here. Not unless you consider 3 or 4 miles away to be
> walking distance, which I don't. She does actually have one friend who
> lives in an apartment near here but she is in Uganda for the summer and
> outside of school they can rarely get together because my daughter is always
> at the dance studio during the week and busy with other things over the
> weekend.
> >
> >> The last time I remember crossing a
> >> street was like...back in May when we went to another city for a dance
> >> show.
> >> It is just not something we have to do much of here. Most places have
> >> parking lots. That one did too but it was across the street.
> >
> > Incredible.
>
> Why do you say that?

Because the idea of someone not ever crossing a street just boggles my
mind.

Miche

--
Electricians do it in three phases

"Julie Bove" > ha scritto nel messaggio

> I guess some people like being outdoors. I don't and my daughter doesn't
> either. We have a gardener now so no need to do yard work. Pretty much
> the only time we go out there and stay out there is when it is too hot in
> the house and we are driven out to the front yard where there is shade and
> it is cooler. But with the way this summer is going that's not going to
> happen any time soon.

Just please don't take your life or your experience as typical. It isn't.
Nothing will work for you that works for us.

"Ed Pawlowski" > ha scritto nel messaggio

> Interesting question. Often, I don't know what I'd like to know until
> after I learned it. There are so many things in the universe we are not
> aware of! One thing I learned though, people are far more important than
> any "things" that may exist.

There you go. I learned that, too. I would quite like to learn how to
shoot a crossbow now. We have a fair number of "balestra" here which are
competitive crossbow contests done in Medieval dress. It's a team sport.
I'd like that. I like banner throwing, too, but I'm too short.

"Miche" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Julie Bove" > wrote:
>
>> "Miche" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >>
>> >> And most likely she will be driving.
>> >
>> > Does she ever walk anywhere? Wow.
>>
>> No. Why would she?
>
> Because people walk places.

Some people do. I don't really know many people who walk places. Maybe it
is common where you are, but it sure isn't here. People use cars.
>
>> Her school is far away and so is her dance studio. No
>> stores that she could walk to around here and she doesn't have any
>> friends
>> that live near here. Not unless you consider 3 or 4 miles away to be
>> walking distance, which I don't. She does actually have one friend who
>> lives in an apartment near here but she is in Uganda for the summer and
>> outside of school they can rarely get together because my daughter is
>> always
>> at the dance studio during the week and busy with other things over the
>> weekend.
>> >
>> >> The last time I remember crossing a
>> >> street was like...back in May when we went to another city for a dance
>> >> show.
>> >> It is just not something we have to do much of here. Most places have
>> >> parking lots. That one did too but it was across the street.
>> >
>> > Incredible.
>>
>> Why do you say that?
>
> Because the idea of someone not ever crossing a street just boggles my
> mind.

I didn't say that she never crossed the street. But she certainly hasn't
done it very often.

"Giusi" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Julie Bove" > ha scritto nel messaggio
>
>> I guess some people like being outdoors. I don't and my daughter doesn't
>> either. We have a gardener now so no need to do yard work. Pretty much
>> the only time we go out there and stay out there is when it is too hot in
>> the house and we are driven out to the front yard where there is shade
>> and it is cooler. But with the way this summer is going that's not going
>> to happen any time soon.
>
> Just please don't take your life or your experience as typical. It isn't.
> Nothing will work for you that works for us.

Well I do have friends and none of us are outdoorsy. However I certainly
wouldn't want to think of my life as typical. Typical is not something I
would want to be.

"Ranée at Arabian Knits" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Ophelia" > wrote:
>
>> "Ranée at Arabian Knits" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > In article >,
>> > I do. I live in the country now and our neighbors came to meet us
>> > and we went to meet them. People brought us produce from their gardens
>> > and invitations to a neighborhood barbecue and we brought baked goods
>> > to
>> > them. We have met several people who can babysit, drive our children
>> > places in a pinch, watch our animals while we are gone, and our
>> > children
>> > have farm sat/pet sat for them. We were told when it was safe to go
>> > swimming in the irrigation ditches and which side of the ditch to use.
>> > We buy hay and straw from our neighbors and plan on getting our next
>> > steer from one. Our butcher is about two miles from us and we get to
>> > see the animals he raises out on grass every time we pass. Folks we
>> > didn't even know came to help get me out of the snow and ice, when I
>> > foolishly pulled to the side of the road (instead of putting on my
>> > flashers and parking in the road) and got stuck. When I skidded into
>> > the irrigation ditch during the ice, other folks from the neighborhood
>> > brought their back hoe to hook up to our bumper and pulled the car out
>> > and then brought 50 pound sacks of their extra potatoes and onions
>> > over.
>> >
>> >
>> > There are a lot of things we don't like about this area. The lack of
>> > shopping (and I mean grocery stores), the lack of trees, winter. But
>> > our neighbors are some of the finest people around. They have been
>> > universally kind and friendly and all of them (with the exception of
>> > one
>> > house up the street from us) look out for all the rest.
>>
>> It sounds like a wee bit of heaven
>
> The whole winter thing kind of blows it for me. -19 degrees F two
> days before Thanksgiving. You can't keep anything in uninsulated
> buildings because they will freeze or explode. Things like holly won't
> grow here. It's hard to find any perennial plants/bushes/trees, because
> it is dry, dry, dry, and up to 110 F at the highest in the summer, which
> is very hot anyway, and dry, dry, dry and so cold you can't even go
> outside in the winter. But it is sunny 300 days a year. And I don't
> mind the heat. Lawns die here if you don't water them. Not like they
> get brown, but spring up in the fall or the next spring. No, they just
> die. I lost both my rosemary bushes we brought with us, that were 10
> and eight years old, respectively, and beautiful. Too cold. Too dry.
> I miss trees, mountains, salt water, berries that grow as weeds. It's
> what you're used to, I guess. The people here think of the other side
> of the mountains as dowdy and claustrophobic.

Yes, it all comes down to what you are used to I suppose and I am sorry the
winter spoils the whole thing for you The winters certainly do sound
hard I was raised in a city, but now I need grass and trees and rivers
I was once in a Glasgow hospital for an extended period. The view from that
was over the whole of the city and visitors used to oooh and ahhh over it.
I hated it! I hope you find somewhere that suits you well!

"Miche" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "Julie Bove" > wrote:
>
>> "Miche" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >>
>> >> And most likely she will be driving.
>> >
>> > Does she ever walk anywhere? Wow.
>>
>> No. Why would she?
>
> Because people walk places.
>
>> Her school is far away and so is her dance studio. No
>> stores that she could walk to around here and she doesn't have any
>> friends
>> that live near here. Not unless you consider 3 or 4 miles away to be
>> walking distance, which I don't. She does actually have one friend who
>> lives in an apartment near here but she is in Uganda for the summer and
>> outside of school they can rarely get together because my daughter is
>> always
>> at the dance studio during the week and busy with other things over the
>> weekend.
>> >
>> >> The last time I remember crossing a
>> >> street was like...back in May when we went to another city for a dance
>> >> show.
>> >> It is just not something we have to do much of here. Most places have
>> >> parking lots. That one did too but it was across the street.
>> >
>> > Incredible.
>>
>> Why do you say that?
>
> Because the idea of someone not ever crossing a street just boggles my
> mind.

I suppose it depends on what is on the other side of the street

On 2011-07-17, Ophelia > wrote:

> hard I was raised in a city, but now I need grass and trees and rivers

I can relate, O. I've always liked urban convenience, but lived on
the edge of it, with trees and rivers visible out the back door.
Thirty-five years in the SFBA cured me, completely.

I recall the time when I was riding my motorcycle on a brutally hot
day and bought a can of beer. I rode a few miles away, to where I
could stop on one end of a small concrete bridge in a semi-rural area
and look down at the town's one tiny creek the bridge crossed, with
it's inches wide ribbon of almost non flowing water, while I enjoyed my ice
cold beer. As I sipped, I became lost in the memories of my childhood
and found myself staring at a patch of old dried out weeds with
insects and heat triggered seeds clicking away. I forgot my problems
and thoughts of 70 mile daily commutes and crushing bills and was, for
a short time, happy. That was the beginning of my urban end.

I'm now poor as a church mouse, yet fabulously wealthy in my beautiful
semi-remote, bear/skunk/eagle populated, not-a-McDs-fer-20-miles,
environs. Pains me to even look at some of the overcrowded websites I
gotta buy from. Life is good.

nb

Julie Bove wrote:
> "Polly Esther" > wrote in message
> ...
>> "Stu" <> wrote
>>> On Thu, 14 Jul 2011 13:58:11 -0500, "Polly Esther" <> wrote:
>>>
>>>> What do you think about this? Yesterday ABC news was talking about a
>>>> Harvard professor who suggests the gov't should take kids away from their
>>>> parents if the chunky little darlings are over weight. Sounds like a
>>>> plan
>>>> to me but what is the state going to do with them when they take them?
>>>> Here's a bit of the report
>>>> http://www.imperfectparent.com/topic...bese-children/
>>>> Polly
>>> Yes I saw the same piece, seems he wants child protective services to put
>>> them
>>> in foster care. Now that would definitely bankrupt your country.
>>>
>>> btw .. a nutritionist said the Harvard professor is nuts and they need
>>> to
>>> learn proper eating habits.
>> We had a neighbor who thought feeding children Lots was superior
>> parenting. She put sweetened condensed milk in their baby bottles. As
>> they got older (and rounder) if she fried chicken for supper, she'd fry
>> one for him, one for her and one for each of their offspring. We've been
>> gone from that neighborhood a long time; don't know if any of them lived
>> through it or not ... but I'd guess: not. Polly
>
> Sadly this was my grandma's school of thought. She thought fat was
> healthier. My dad said in those days it was ideal to have a fat baby. And
> he was one.
>
>
Oh, I remember those days. When I was in elementary school, many
of my friends' families were still producing babies, and the norm
was to fatten them up. Actually, when my daughter was a toddler,
we would go to the park, and there was an enormously fat baby,
which the family seemed to regard as being a good thing.

--
Jean B.

"notbob" > wrote in message
...
> On 2011-07-17, Ophelia > wrote:
>
>> hard I was raised in a city, but now I need grass and trees and
>> rivers
>
> I can relate, O. I've always liked urban convenience, but lived on
> the edge of it, with trees and rivers visible out the back door.
> Thirty-five years in the SFBA cured me, completely.
>
> I recall the time when I was riding my motorcycle on a brutally hot
> day and bought a can of beer. I rode a few miles away, to where I
> could stop on one end of a small concrete bridge in a semi-rural area
> and look down at the town's one tiny creek the bridge crossed, with
> it's inches wide ribbon of almost non flowing water, while I enjoyed my
> ice
> cold beer. As I sipped, I became lost in the memories of my childhood
> and found myself staring at a patch of old dried out weeds with
> insects and heat triggered seeds clicking away. I forgot my problems
> and thoughts of 70 mile daily commutes and crushing bills and was, for
> a short time, happy. That was the beginning of my urban end.
>
> I'm now poor as a church mouse, yet fabulously wealthy in my beautiful
> semi-remote, bear/skunk/eagle populated, not-a-McDs-fer-20-miles,
> environs. Pains me to even look at some of the overcrowded websites I
> gotta buy from. Life is good.

Heavenly!! I am so pleased for you) When hubby retires, we will be in
deep countryside

Giusi wrote:
> "Julie Bove" > ha scritto nel messaggio
>> "Giusi" wrote in message
>
>
>>> I think it's not just parents but the culture at fault. When kids ran
>>> outside to play kick the can and could ride their bikes for miles to go
>>> fishing, they were less fat. We sell them Nintendo, Wii, PlayStation,
>>> and gear movies and TV to 12 year old boys and what do you think will
>>> happen?
>> Kids can not do those sorts of things any more in many places because it
>> is just not safe to do so. And here it is cold and cloudy much of the
>> time. Nobody wants to hang around outside in conditions like that.
>
> What do you think they did before TV? I'll bet if you talk to someone over
> 60 they'll tell you they did all the same games other kids did. Kids don't
> care about gloomy, grownups care.
>
> There is a big question about whether it is more dangerous or just more
> reported. If it is more dangerous, then change the culture. Make it safe
> for kids to group up and play. Bring back sidewalks. Runmble strip cul
> de sacs. Police parks. Kids live in the streets and survive in war zones,
> for crying out loud.
>
>
I was going to ask... whether it is really less safe or whether
we are just hearing about more incidents and thus THINKING it is
less safe. Then I started thinking of areas plagued by gangs.
Now THAT would be unsafe.

Also, I would guess that some of the change is because most
mothers work. When I was a kid (and I am 61), I roamed pretty
far. And mothers were almost always home, so one could almost
always drop in and find mom and the kids, which was probably safer
(or at least felt safer).

More recently, I had the definite impression that unless the kids
live practically next door to each other, one has to make
appointments (aka [play dates). And that kind-of segues into
another related issue: the over-scheduling of kids. I guess I
was, once again, a rebel when it came to that. I think kids need
downtime, time to think, to be creative. It doesn't have to be
go, go, go all the time.

--
Jean B.

Julie Bove wrote:
> That's not true. I wouldn't go outside to play when it was cold and rainy
> nor would my mother let me. My daughter HATES playing outside. Too many
> bugs and too much dirt.

Oh, that's funny to me. My mom insisted that I go outside, even
when it was bitterly cold out. Of course, no one else was out
under such circumstances, so that was rather boring.

> We have sidewalks here. We've had two out of control cars in the past few
> years go up onto the sidewalk. My husband's car was hit and then the
> neighbor two doors down. Drunk drivers.

At what hour was this? One can't live like a hot house plant just
because something like this might happen!
>
> It is not safe to let kids play outside alone because there are just too
> many weirdos out there. And too much lack of police. We don't live in the
> city limits. There is a park across the street from us. No way would I let
> my daughter go there without me. Too much drug activity going on. Oh and
> the gangs have tagged this area now too.

Well, gangs are another thing. Yeah, those would be dangerous.
>
> Just because some kids live in the streets and survive war zones doesn't
> make it a good thing!
>
>


--
Jean B.

Leonard Blaisdell wrote:
> In article >,
> "Giusi" > wrote:
>
>> What do you think they did before TV? I'll bet if you talk to someone over
>> 60 they'll tell you they did all the same games other kids did. Kids don't
>> care about gloomy, grownups care.
>
> A couple of weeks ago, I took my granddaughters past a gas station. I
> told them that it was a trampoline park in 1962 when I was fifteen. I
> explained that lawsuits and insurance premiums killed all of the
> trampoline parks off.
> Today, in our local rag, I see that trampoline parks are making a
> comeback. I suspect they won't be here for very long.
> I miss the old days when local issues didn't become national laws. I'm
> amazed that kids can still ski without inciting a bad parenting rap.
>
> leo

Shhhh. Someone might hear that.

--
Jean B.

Julie Bove > wrote:

>"Miche" > wrote in message

...
>>>
>>> And most likely she will be driving.
>>
>> Does she ever walk anywhere? Wow.
>
>No. Why would she? Her school is far away and so is her dance studio. No
>stores that she could walk to around here and she doesn't have any friends
>that live near here. Not unless you consider 3 or 4 miles away to be
>walking distance, which I don't. She does actually have one friend who
>lives in an apartment near here but she is in Uganda for the summer and
>outside of school they can rarely get together because my daughter is always
>at the dance studio during the week and busy with other things over the
>weekend.

>>> The last time I remember crossing a
>>> street was like...back in May when we went to another city for a dance
>>> show.
>>> It is just not something we have to do much of here. Most places have
>>> parking lots. That one did too but it was across the street.

>> Incredible.

>Why do you say that?

Suburbs where nobody ever walks, and where all destinations are
surrounded by large parking lots such that you never even cross
a street on foot, are not entirely unique to parts of North America; but
they are not the norm world-wide. What you're describing is in fact
surprising to many people.

Steve

Dave Smith wrote:
> On 15/07/2011 4:43 AM, Giusi wrote:
>>
>> What do you think they did before TV? I'll bet if you talk to someone
>> over
>> 60 they'll tell you they did all the same games other kids did. Kids
>> don't
>> care about gloomy, grownups care.
>
> I am 60. We had TV when I was a kid but we did not spend a lot of time
> watching it. Admittedly, it was a small screen black and white, nothing
> like the wide screen colour hi def that is available now. We had an
> antennae that pulled in only 3 or 4 stations. We were not allowed to
> watch much tv. My mother used to boot us out of the house to play. We
> would head out on our bicycles and come back for meals, or pack a lunch.
>
>
Sounds like MY childhood.
--
Jean B.

Cindy Hamilton wrote:
> On Jul 14, 11:35 pm, Mark Thorson > wrote:
>> Polly Esther wrote:
>>
>>> What do you think about this? Yesterday ABC news was talking about a
>>> Harvard professor who suggests the gov't should take kids away from their
>>> parents if the chunky little darlings are over weight. Sounds like a plan
>>> to me but what is the state going to do with them when they take them?
>> A much better idea is to have posters in classrooms
>> that heap ridicule and scorn on fat kids. Fat people
>> get heart attacks! Fat people look fat! Fat people
>> eat while people starve! Fat people contribute to
>> global warming!
>
> Do you really think that fat kids aren't already scorned
> and humiliated? It doesn't help anything.
>
> Cindy Hamilton

Possibly this would be a circular issue to some extent. Fat, thus
scorned-->lack of friends, less play, depression, eating?

--
Jean B.

Ophelia wrote:
>
>
> "Cindy Hamilton" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Jul 14, 11:35 pm, Mark Thorson > wrote:
>>> Polly Esther wrote:
>>>
>>> > What do you think about this? Yesterday ABC news was talking about a
>>> > Harvard professor who suggests the gov't should take kids away from
>>> > their
>>> > parents if the chunky little darlings are over weight. Sounds like
>>> a > plan
>>> > to me but what is the state going to do with them when they take them?
>>>
>>> A much better idea is to have posters in classrooms
>>> that heap ridicule and scorn on fat kids. Fat people
>>> get heart attacks! Fat people look fat! Fat people
>>> eat while people starve! Fat people contribute to
>>> global warming!
>>
>> Do you really think that fat kids aren't already scorned
>> and humiliated? It doesn't help anything.
>
> I read once about a wee lass who tried to take a knife to her belly
> because she was so ashamed of being fat

That fits in with my daughter's observations, alas.

--
Jean B.

Brooklyn1 wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Jul 2011 08:59:12 +0200, "Giusi" >
> wrote:
>
>> "Polly Esther" > ha scritto nel messaggio
>> ...
>>> What do you think about this? Yesterday ABC news was talking about a
>>> Harvard professor who suggests the gov't should take kids away from their
>>> parents if the chunky little darlings are over weight. Sounds like a plan
>>> to me but what is the state going to do with them when they take them?
>>> Here's a bit of the report
>>> http://www.imperfectparent.com/topic...bese-children/
>>> Polly
>> I think it's not just parents but the culture at fault. When kids ran
>> outside to play kick the can and could ride their bikes for miles to go
>> fishing, they were less fat. We sell them Nintendo, Wii, PlayStation, and
>> gear movies and TV to 12 year old boys and what do you think will happen?
>
> Bingo! We have a winner! Thing is the parents are the culture. The
> only exercise kids nowadays participate in regularly is opening the
> fridge door and texting. Today kids are on the phone and eating 24/7,
> and they don't have a choice. When I was growing up kids were not
> permitted to use the phone or open the fridge without permission, no
> TV without permission either, an dof course no cushy computer chairs
> to lounge in hour after hour after hour. The streets were safe for
> play because every mother was home watching out for every kid in the
> hood. There was no fast food, today preparing dinner means rolling
> through the drive-thru. Nowadays women have full time jobs out of the
> home, they are NOT mothering. I'm really suprised that more kids
> aren't abducted, raped, and murdered. Let's not punish the fat kids,
> let's punish the fat heads who *play* at parenting. If you're not
> there to parent your kid than you need to be removed from the home,
> and prosecuted/incarcerated for criminal negligence... needing a
> career is no excuse... if you can't afford a kid you need to keep your
> legs closed and learn to swallow... if a guy can't afford a kid with
> his wife staying home he needs to have a vasectomy, because he is
> definitely not a man. If you have kids and can't afford them then you
> are not a man and a women, you are kids having kids... actually the
> truth be told yer just a pimp and a ho.
>
> As far as I'm concerned anyone who foists their kids off on anyone
> else to tend to is just as guilty of a felonius crime as any common
> child molester, even moreso... farm livestock are far better tended to
> than how the fat heads tend to kids.

A lot of truth there, Sheldon.

--
Jean B.

On 17/07/2011 10:43 AM, notbob wrote:
> On 2011-07-17, > wrote:
>
>> hard I was raised in a city, but now I need grass and trees and rivers
>
> I can relate, O. I've always liked urban convenience, but lived on
> the edge of it, with trees and rivers visible out the back door.
> Thirty-five years in the SFBA cured me, completely.


Me too. The town that we lived in when I was a kid was about 15 miles
outside of Toronto. There were shopping plazas within a few miles and we
could be downtown in 15-20 minutes. When I was a teen we moved to a
small city in Niagara but were in the very edge if it. Across the street
I had fields and forests to roam. A few years after we got married we
moved to this town. It is 3 miles into town, and there are three small
cities within a 20 minute drive.


>
> I'm now poor as a church mouse, yet fabulously wealthy in my beautiful
> semi-remote, bear/skunk/eagle populated, not-a-McDs-fer-20-miles,
> environs. Pains me to even look at some of the overcrowded websites I
> gotta buy from. Life is good.

I can't say that I am poor, but I too have rich memories of my
childhood. It is disappointing to go back to my old neighbourhooud and
see that it has become swallowed up in the urban sprawl. The forest and
farmland that were our playground are now filled with miles and miles of
houses.

Brooklyn1 wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Jul 2011 03:13:33 -0700, "Julie Bove"
> > wrote:
>
>> "Leonard Blaisdell" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> In article >,
>>> "Giusi" > wrote:
>>>
>>>> What do you think they did before TV? I'll bet if you talk to someone
>>>> over
>>>> 60 they'll tell you they did all the same games other kids did. Kids
>>>> don't
>>>> care about gloomy, grownups care.
>>> A couple of weeks ago, I took my granddaughters past a gas station. I
>>> told them that it was a trampoline park in 1962 when I was fifteen. I
>>> explained that lawsuits and insurance premiums killed all of the
>>> trampoline parks off.
>>> Today, in our local rag, I see that trampoline parks are making a
>>> comeback. I suspect they won't be here for very long.
>>> I miss the old days when local issues didn't become national laws. I'm
>>> amazed that kids can still ski without inciting a bad parenting rap.
>> I think skiing is too dangerous and I wouldn't allow my daughter to do it.
>> Thankfully she sees it as dangerous too.
>
> WTF is the Blaisdell imbecile yammering about... sking is far too
> expensive for the average family... yer gonna ski outside your door on
> the city streets... you need hundreds of bucks worth of specialized
> clothing, even renting skis and boots ain't cheap, lift tickets ain't
> free, and you need to travel and pay for accomodations. Only
> relatively wealthy families ski. But any kid can take a sled to a
> snowy hill in a public park and have a grand time for an entire day
> for free. And skiing is dangerous, very much so, deadly dangerous.

Sledding can also be dangerous. I am thinking of the big rocks in
the park where kids in my old town sled. Also, hills that will
end you up in the road. And do those new sleds have any steering
mechanism? Maybe I am just seeing cheap ones when I am out and
about. The old Flexible Flyers were much better than those.

--
Jean B.

Mark Thorson wrote:
> Polly Esther wrote:
>> What do you think about this? Yesterday ABC news was talking about a
>> Harvard professor who suggests the gov't should take kids away from their
>> parents if the chunky little darlings are over weight. Sounds like a plan
>> to me but what is the state going to do with them when they take them?
>
> A much better idea is to have posters in classrooms
> that heap ridicule and scorn on fat kids. Fat people
> get heart attacks! Fat people look fat! Fat people
> eat while people starve! Fat people contribute to
> global warming!
>
> That would work. Or, at least it's worth trying.
> It would be a lot cheaper.
>
> It's coming. I can feel it. Fat will be the new
> smoking.

When she was in high school, my daughter, now 20, said that the
attitude of many kids was that they would rather die than be fat.
And that was not even what many of us would consider to be
fat, more like not stick-thin.

--
Jean B.

Julie Bove wrote:
> Bryan wrote:
>> On Jul 14, 6:26 pm, Serene Vannoy > wrote:
>>> On 07/14/2011 11:58 AM, Polly Esther wrote:
>>>
>>>> What do you think about this? Yesterday ABC news was talking about a
>>>> Harvard professor who suggests the gov't should take kids away from
>>>> their parents if the chunky little darlings are over weight. Sounds
>>>> like a plan to me but what is the state going to do with them when
>>>> they take them?
>>> When it's happened in the past (and it has), the children have been
>>> quietly returned to their parents, because they didn't lose weight in
>>> foster care. Oh, gosh, traumatizing kids doesn't make them thin? Huge
>>> surprise.
>> Keeping them the heck away from carbohydrates makes them thin.
>
> Low carb diets are not recommended for growing kids.
>
>
Oh?

--
Jean B.

On 17/07/2011 11:02 AM, Jean B. wrote:

>> There is a big question about whether it is more dangerous or just
>> more reported. If it is more dangerous, then change the culture. Make
>> it safe for kids to group up and play. Bring back sidewalks. Runmble
>> strip cul de sacs. Police parks. Kids live in the streets and survive
>> in war zones, for crying out loud.
>>
> I was going to ask... whether it is really less safe or whether we are
> just hearing about more incidents and thus THINKING it is less safe.
> Then I started thinking of areas plagued by gangs. Now THAT would be
> unsafe.

I have to confess that we had a lot of close calls when we were kids. I
was by no means the most daring and a few of the kids I went to
elementary school with did not make it to adulthood.

> Also, I would guess that some of the change is because most mothers
> work. When I was a kid (and I am 61), I roamed pretty far. And mothers
> were almost always home, so one could almost always drop in and find mom
> and the kids, which was probably safer (or at least felt safer).

My mother used to work occasionally to raise extra money for Christmas
or to send us to summer camp. We had a pretty long leash. We were sent
out to play in the morning and expected to be back for lunch, or my
mother would pack us a lunch. On a hot summer day she would give us some
money to go to public pool, which was about 8 miles away in the next
town. We often went on long hikes or better yet, bicycle hikes.

I remember one time my mother arranged for us to go to my grandparents
for a few days. She dropped us off at the street car on the west side of
Toronto and we had to go by street car and bus to the far side of the
city. I was 8 and my brother was 5.





> More recently, I had the definite impression that unless the kids live
> practically next door to each other, one has to make appointments (aka
> [play dates). And that kind-of segues into another related issue: the
> over-scheduling of kids. I guess I was, once again, a rebel when it came
> to that. I think kids need downtime, time to think, to be creative. It
> doesn't have to be go, go, go all the time.

When my son was growing up out we had to make arrangements for him to
get together with friends because the kids lived miles apart and had to
be driven. They all learned to drive early.

My best friend and I were separated when we were fourteen. His family
had moved to farm country further north and mine moved south. I used to
hitchhike up to their place almost every weekend, leaving Friday night
and getting back Sunday night. Between my experiences up there and
where I have lived for the last 30 years I got the impression that
country kids are more musically talented. The city kids used to go to a
lot of concerts. The country kids learned to play instruments. As we got
older and started going out for drinks, the city bars had boxed music
but thee country bars always had live bands.

Julie Bove > wrote:

>I guess some people like being outdoors. I don't and my daughter doesn't
>either. We have a gardener now so no need to do yard work.

I have to ask: if you don't like being outdoors, why have a garden?
Is the garden visible from inside the house, through a window?

Steve

On 17/07/2011 11:06 AM, Steve Pope wrote:
do you say that?
>
> Suburbs where nobody ever walks, and where all destinations are
> surrounded by large parking lots such that you never even cross
> a street on foot, are not entirely unique to parts of North America; but
> they are not the norm world-wide. What you're describing is in fact
> surprising to many people.
>

I have noticed a curious phenomenon. I think that city folks tend to
walk more. I live in the country and we do see a number of people out
walking and bicycling along our street, but it is a main street. The
side roads are remarkable void of pedestrians an cyclists. People drive
to town and to the mall and have to park near the door. I remember once
seeing a guy walk out of the drug store, get into his car, start it up,
pull a U turn and park in front of the hardware store across the street.
It would have been faster and easier to just walk across the street.

City people using public transit walk a few blocks to catch a bus and
then get off at a stop close to their destination. If they have another
place nearby they are more likely to walk than to wait for another bus
and spend another fare. I think they walk a lot more.

Polly Esther wrote:
>
> "Ranée at Arabian Knits" <> wrote in part
>> There are hardly any mothers in the neighborhood to keep an eye out
>> for their own and other children. Most people don't even know their
>> neighbors.
>
> You've nailed what I see as part of the problem that we can do
> something about. When did it happen that folks don't know their
> neighbors? We don't get to choose our families or our neighbors (much)
> but it is surprising and sad that people don't meet/know their
> neighbors. Being neighborly didn't come easy to some of ours and it
> took years.
> There's one home on our road where I've never met the folks. Don't
> think they'll shoot me but they might not welcome me with open arms. (
> or they might) I just may bake them a banana nut bread and go introduce
> myself. Do you know your neighbors? Polly
>
Maybe to some degree this change is also correlated with working
moms? (or should I say with both parents working?) When my
daughter was a tot, there were still some moms and kids who would
meet at the park and thus get to know each other. Or just being
out with one's child could lead to meeting neighbors, including
others with children of a similar age.

I was very disappointed with my old neighborhood. The folks that
had been there for a while had bonded and didn't really care to
include anyone new. The family across the street was nice, and
our kids played some. Otherwise, nothing. Oh, except for a man
who walked his dog. We would chat as he he walked by. And
another walker. (Another common element: use of cars and not
being out walking?)

Actually folks in the new neighborhood are friendlier, especially
the woman across the street. But then *I* usually see the
seemingly nice folks to one side of my house when I pass by in the
car....

--
Jean B.

Julie Bove wrote:
> Polly Esther wrote:
>> "Ranée at Arabian Knits" <> wrote in part
>>> There are hardly any mothers in the neighborhood to keep an eye out
>>> for their own and other children. Most people don't even know their
>>> neighbors.
>> You've nailed what I see as part of the problem that we can do
>> something about. When did it happen that folks don't know their
>> neighbors? We don't get to choose our families or our neighbors
>> (much) but it is surprising and sad that people don't meet/know their
>> neighbors. Being neighborly didn't come easy to some of ours and it
>> took years. There's one home on our road where I've never met the
>> folks. Don't think they'll shoot me but they might not welcome me with
>> open arms. ( or they might) I just may bake them a banana nut bread and
>> go
>> introduce myself. Do you know your neighbors? Polly
>
> I guess it depends on where you live. In some of the military housing where
> I lived, lots of people said they didn't want to get to know others because
> they would soon be moving on. And when I lived in a civilian apartment I
> had neighbors moving out right and left and new ones moving in. I tried to
> throw a party to meet the neighbors. I invited them all. One man came. He
> had a drinking problem. But he was very nice. When he wasn't out chasing
> cars or any of the other idiotic things he did before he got kicked out.
>
> My parents have several rental houses on their street. People generally
> only stay for a few months at a time there. They get tired of going over to
> introduce themselves only to have the people move.
>
> I know the people on either side of me and one other family two doors down.
> And some other people further down the street only because they have kids
> that are or are near my daughter's age. But really I have nothing in common
> with any of these people so aside from greeting each other now and then, we
> don't get together.
>
> During the day I am usually the only one home. When I am home. Everybody
> works. The guy on the one side of me does construction so at times he is
> home. But pretty much nobody else is.
>
>
Yet another factor: folks moving more than they did in days of yore.

--
Jean B.

Dave Smith > wrote:

>On 17/07/2011 11:06 AM, Steve Pope wrote:

>> Suburbs where nobody ever walks, and where all destinations are
>> surrounded by large parking lots such that you never even cross
>> a street on foot, are not entirely unique to parts of North America; but
>> they are not the norm world-wide. What you're describing is in fact
>> surprising to many people.

>I have noticed a curious phenomenon. I think that city folks tend to
>walk more. I live in the country and we do see a number of people out
>walking and bicycling along our street, but it is a main street. The
>side roads are remarkable void of pedestrians an cyclists. People drive
>to town and to the mall and have to park near the door. I remember once
>seeing a guy walk out of the drug store, get into his car, start it up,
>pull a U turn and park in front of the hardware store across the street.
> It would have been faster and easier to just walk across the street.

>City people using public transit walk a few blocks to catch a bus and
>then get off at a stop close to their destination. If they have another
>place nearby they are more likely to walk than to wait for another bus
>and spend another fare. I think they walk a lot more.

I agree. Being able to walk to and between shopping, restaurants,
museums, nightspots etc. is usually considered a marker of quality of life.

I concluded that if I had to move to Dallas (it never happened, but
my employer was based there so the possibility was on my mind) I
would absolutely need to get a bicycle, and then live somewhere near
a metro train stop. There are a few walkable neighborhoods, such
as Uptown. Just a few. My place of employment in this hypothetical
scenario would have been four miles past the last stop on the Metro
line, so one could get there by train and bicycle although it may
have been a somewhat hazardous bike ride.

In this sense, Dallas would have afforded a slightly better quality
of life than, say, Phoenix or Orlando, but not as good as (for
example) Denver, which has multiple walkable neighborhoods and
better transit. There are probably even a few carless-by-choice
people living in central Denver, as is common in S.F. or New York City
or Montreal...

Steve

"Ophelia" > wrote:
> "notbob" > wrote in message

>> I'm now poor as a church mouse, yet fabulously wealthy in my beautiful
>> semi-remote, bear/skunk/eagle populated, not-a-McDs-fer-20-miles,
>> environs. Pains me to even look at some of the overcrowded websites I
>> gotta buy from. Life is good.
>
> Heavenly!! I am so pleased for you) When hubby retires, we will be in
> deep countryside

Life is better in the country. However, unlike the city counter parts,
price of land is skyrocketing. I moved out two years before the housing
collapse. I paid $3,000 an acre, now land is going for over $10,000 an acre
in my area.

if I had stayed longer in the city I would have been trapped with no money
to move out. Thirteen years ago I sold my home in the city for $110,000, I
paid $40,000 twenty years earlier. Today that same home is empty and worth
less than $15,000.
That neighborhood crashed hard. When the housing market collapsed it
allowed detroit residence to move into the suburbs. Then the crime came and
the house collapsed next to nothing.

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

Julie Bove wrote:
> "Miche" > wrote in message
> ...
>>> And most likely she will be driving.
>> Does she ever walk anywhere? Wow.
>
> No. Why would she? Her school is far away and so is her dance studio. No
> stores that she could walk to around here and she doesn't have any friends
> that live near here. Not unless you consider 3 or 4 miles away to be
> walking distance, which I don't. She does actually have one friend who
> lives in an apartment near here but she is in Uganda for the summer and
> outside of school they can rarely get together because my daughter is always
> at the dance studio during the week and busy with other things over the
> weekend.

I can see that at times, it would not be appropriate or possible
to walk that far, I did walk that far to and from high school.
And when I first started working, I walked that far every night
(sometimes in the dark, depending on the season). It IS possible.
My daughter prides herself in being able to outwalk everyone
else. She is like I used to be: able to walk all day. My
ability dwindled when I got a car. Still, when it isn't really
hot or really cold, we will frequently drive in toward Boston,
park the car really far away from our destination(s) and walk.
--
Jean B.

Julie Bove wrote:
> "Ranée at Arabian Knits" > wrote in message
> ...
>> In article
>> >,
>> Miche > wrote:
>>
>>> Only part of the year. But if there's cloud cover we don't go indoors,
>> I grew up in a place where it rained most of the time from the end of
>> October through the beginning of April. If we had not gone outside
>> then, well, I think life would have been miserable. Rich and I used to
>> go on walks in the rain. It was fun. We didn't need no stinking
>> umbrellas. Where we used to live it didn't rain as much, but it was
>> overcast quite a lot and if we didn't let our children outside then,
>> they would have spent most of their lives indoors. I will admit to
>> their being somewhat wimpy about the rain now, but that is because we
>> have moved to a desert where the sun is out 300 days a year, so even a
>> little rain is weird to them now. Here, it generally comes with wind,
>> thunder and lightning, too.
>
> I guess some people like being outdoors. I don't and my daughter doesn't
> either. We have a gardener now so no need to do yard work. Pretty much the
> only time we go out there and stay out there is when it is too hot in the
> house and we are driven out to the front yard where there is shade and it is
> cooler. But with the way this summer is going that's not going to happen
> any time soon.
>
>
BUT... your daughter probably got that dislike from YOU! And
that dislike is not healthy. Other than that...

--
Jean B.

Dave Smith wrote:
> On 17/07/2011 11:02 AM, Jean B. wrote:
>
>>> There is a big question about whether it is more dangerous or just
>>> more reported. If it is more dangerous, then change the culture. Make
>>> it safe for kids to group up and play. Bring back sidewalks. Runmble
>>> strip cul de sacs. Police parks. Kids live in the streets and survive
>>> in war zones, for crying out loud.
>>>
>> I was going to ask... whether it is really less safe or whether we are
>> just hearing about more incidents and thus THINKING it is less safe.
>> Then I started thinking of areas plagued by gangs. Now THAT would be
>> unsafe.
>
> I have to confess that we had a lot of close calls when we were kids. I
> was by no means the most daring and a few of the kids I went to
> elementary school with did not make it to adulthood.
>
>> Also, I would guess that some of the change is because most mothers
>> work. When I was a kid (and I am 61), I roamed pretty far. And mothers
>> were almost always home, so one could almost always drop in and find mom
>> and the kids, which was probably safer (or at least felt safer).
>
> My mother used to work occasionally to raise extra money for Christmas
> or to send us to summer camp. We had a pretty long leash. We were sent
> out to play in the morning and expected to be back for lunch, or my
> mother would pack us a lunch. On a hot summer day she would give us some
> money to go to public pool, which was about 8 miles away in the next
> town. We often went on long hikes or better yet, bicycle hikes.
>
> I remember one time my mother arranged for us to go to my grandparents
> for a few days. She dropped us off at the street car on the west side of
> Toronto and we had to go by street car and bus to the far side of the
> city. I was 8 and my brother was 5.
>
>
>
>
>
>> More recently, I had the definite impression that unless the kids live
>> practically next door to each other, one has to make appointments (aka
>> [play dates). And that kind-of segues into another related issue: the
>> over-scheduling of kids. I guess I was, once again, a rebel when it came
>> to that. I think kids need downtime, time to think, to be creative. It
>> doesn't have to be go, go, go all the time.
>
> When my son was growing up out we had to make arrangements for him to
> get together with friends because the kids lived miles apart and had to
> be driven. They all learned to drive early.
>
> My best friend and I were separated when we were fourteen. His family
> had moved to farm country further north and mine moved south. I used to
> hitchhike up to their place almost every weekend, leaving Friday night
> and getting back Sunday night. Between my experiences up there and
> where I have lived for the last 30 years I got the impression that
> country kids are more musically talented. The city kids used to go to a
> lot of concerts. The country kids learned to play instruments. As we got
> older and started going out for drinks, the city bars had boxed music
> but thee country bars always had live bands.
>
>
Yup--not to the last part, which I didn't experience, but I have a
friend who relates the same thing about HER childhood.

Just show up for meals. That's about it. I roved the
neighborhood, sometimes with my postman pal on his route (which he
walked--I add that because they mostly drive around now, except in
area where folks never had and do not have to erect roadside
mailboxes).

Yes, some kids had accidents. Like the little boy who went down
to the main drag to wait for his father to come home and got hit
by a car (not fatally). Actually, that's the only such incident
that I recall.

--
Jean B.

Steve Pope wrote:
> Dave Smith > wrote:
>
>> On 17/07/2011 11:06 AM, Steve Pope wrote:
>
>>> Suburbs where nobody ever walks, and where all destinations are
>>> surrounded by large parking lots such that you never even cross
>>> a street on foot, are not entirely unique to parts of North America; but
>>> they are not the norm world-wide. What you're describing is in fact
>>> surprising to many people.
>
>> I have noticed a curious phenomenon. I think that city folks tend to
>> walk more. I live in the country and we do see a number of people out
>> walking and bicycling along our street, but it is a main street. The
>> side roads are remarkable void of pedestrians an cyclists. People drive
>> to town and to the mall and have to park near the door. I remember once
>> seeing a guy walk out of the drug store, get into his car, start it up,
>> pull a U turn and park in front of the hardware store across the street.
>> It would have been faster and easier to just walk across the street.
>
>> City people using public transit walk a few blocks to catch a bus and
>> then get off at a stop close to their destination. If they have another
>> place nearby they are more likely to walk than to wait for another bus
>> and spend another fare. I think they walk a lot more.
>
> I agree. Being able to walk to and between shopping, restaurants,
> museums, nightspots etc. is usually considered a marker of quality of life.
>
> I concluded that if I had to move to Dallas (it never happened, but
> my employer was based there so the possibility was on my mind) I
> would absolutely need to get a bicycle, and then live somewhere near
> a metro train stop. There are a few walkable neighborhoods, such
> as Uptown. Just a few. My place of employment in this hypothetical
> scenario would have been four miles past the last stop on the Metro
> line, so one could get there by train and bicycle although it may
> have been a somewhat hazardous bike ride.
>
> In this sense, Dallas would have afforded a slightly better quality
> of life than, say, Phoenix or Orlando, but not as good as (for
> example) Denver, which has multiple walkable neighborhoods and
> better transit. There are probably even a few carless-by-choice
> people living in central Denver, as is common in S.F. or New York City
> or Montreal...
>
> Steve

Or Boston. I didn't have a car (or any desire for one) until I
was 42. Well, I guess the desire actually started after I had my
daughter. I carried her in a pack on my back and still walked
everywhere. The main problem being that she tended to lop to one
side. Ouch!

--
Jean B.

"Nad R" > wrote in message
...
> "Ophelia" > wrote:
>> "notbob" > wrote in message
>
>>> I'm now poor as a church mouse, yet fabulously wealthy in my beautiful
>>> semi-remote, bear/skunk/eagle populated, not-a-McDs-fer-20-miles,
>>> environs. Pains me to even look at some of the overcrowded websites I
>>> gotta buy from. Life is good.
>>
>> Heavenly!! I am so pleased for you) When hubby retires, we will be in
>> deep countryside
>
> Life is better in the country. However, unlike the city counter parts,
> price of land is skyrocketing. I moved out two years before the housing
> collapse. I paid $3,000 an acre, now land is going for over $10,000 an
> acre
> in my area.
>
> if I had stayed longer in the city I would have been trapped with no money
> to move out. Thirteen years ago I sold my home in the city for $110,000, I
> paid $40,000 twenty years earlier. Today that same home is empty and worth
> less than $15,000.
> That neighborhood crashed hard. When the housing market collapsed it
> allowed detroit residence to move into the suburbs. Then the crime came
> and
> the house collapsed next to nothing.

I am pleased it worked out so well for you What a relief knowing what you
know now!!!

"Jean B." > wrote in message
...
> Polly Esther wrote:
>>
>> "Ranée at Arabian Knits" <> wrote in part
>>> There are hardly any mothers in the neighborhood to keep an eye out
>>> for their own and other children. Most people don't even know their
>>> neighbors.
>>
>> You've nailed what I see as part of the problem that we can do
>> something about. When did it happen that folks don't know their
>> neighbors? We don't get to choose our families or our neighbors (much)
>> but it is surprising and sad that people don't meet/know their neighbors.
>> Being neighborly didn't come easy to some of ours and it took years.
>> There's one home on our road where I've never met the folks. Don't
>> think they'll shoot me but they might not welcome me with open arms. (
>> or they might) I just may bake them a banana nut bread and go introduce
>> myself. Do you know your neighbors? Polly
>>
> Maybe to some degree this change is also correlated with working moms?
> (or should I say with both parents working?) When my daughter was a tot,
> there were still some moms and kids who would meet at the park and thus
> get to know each other. Or just being out with one's child could lead to
> meeting neighbors, including others with children of a similar age.
>
> I was very disappointed with my old neighborhood. The folks that had been
> there for a while had bonded and didn't really care to include anyone new.
> The family across the street was nice, and our kids played some.
> Otherwise, nothing. Oh, except for a man who walked his dog. We would
> chat as he he walked by. And another walker. (Another common element:
> use of cars and not being out walking?)
>
> Actually folks in the new neighborhood are friendlier, especially the
> woman across the street. But then *I* usually see the seemingly nice
> folks to one side of my house when I pass by in the car....

I met more people when I got my dog then I did in all the years I was
working