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Default Take away the fat kids?

Ophelia wrote:
>
>
> "Jean B." > wrote in message
> ...
>> Polly Esther wrote:
>>>
>>> "Ranée at Arabian Knits" <> wrote in part
>>>> There are hardly any mothers in the neighborhood to keep an eye out
>>>> for their own and other children. Most people don't even know their
>>>> neighbors.
>>>
>>> You've nailed what I see as part of the problem that we can do
>>> something about. When did it happen that folks don't know their
>>> neighbors? We don't get to choose our families or our neighbors (much)
>>> but it is surprising and sad that people don't meet/know their
>>> neighbors.
>>> Being neighborly didn't come easy to some of ours and it took years.
>>> There's one home on our road where I've never met the folks. Don't
>>> think they'll shoot me but they might not welcome me with open arms. (
>>> or they might) I just may bake them a banana nut bread and go introduce
>>> myself. Do you know your neighbors? Polly
>>>

>> Maybe to some degree this change is also correlated with working moms?
>> (or should I say with both parents working?) When my daughter was a tot,
>> there were still some moms and kids who would meet at the park and thus
>> get to know each other. Or just being out with one's child could lead to
>> meeting neighbors, including others with children of a similar age.
>>
>> I was very disappointed with my old neighborhood. The folks that had
>> been
>> there for a while had bonded and didn't really care to include anyone
>> new.
>> The family across the street was nice, and our kids played some.
>> Otherwise, nothing. Oh, except for a man who walked his dog. We would
>> chat as he he walked by. And another walker. (Another common element:
>> use of cars and not being out walking?)
>>
>> Actually folks in the new neighborhood are friendlier, especially the
>> woman across the street. But then *I* usually see the seemingly nice
>> folks to one side of my house when I pass by in the car....

>
> I met more people when I got my dog then I did in all the years I was
> working


I bet! I initially met the neighbor across the street because she
is always out with her dog. She is, for better or for worse (and
I decided to accept that it was better) kind-of the self-appointed
neighborhood watch, and I suspect she sometimes goes out with her
dog precisely to see what is going on and sometimes to talk when
she sees me.

I actually contemplate getting a dog precisely because one meets
more people that way--and the exercise is mandatory even in foul
weather. Of course, the prospect of going out in hideous weather
is not appealing, but still.... People do it, and I could do it.

The other day I was in a shop where I saw a Silky Terrier that
weighed all of 4 pounds. Sooo cute! But then I remind myself
that I have shy cats, at least 1 of which would totally freak out
if there was a dog here.

--
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"Steve Pope" > ha scritto nel messaggio
> I concluded that if I had to move to Dallas (it never happened, but
> my employer was based there so the possibility was on my mind) I
> would absolutely need to get a bicycle, and then live somewhere near
> a metro train stop. There are a few walkable neighborhoods, such
> as Uptown. Just a few. My place of employment in this hypothetical
> scenario would have been four miles past the last stop on the Metro
> line, so one could get there by train and bicycle although it may
> have been a somewhat hazardous bike ride.
> Steve


When I was in Washington last winter they'd added bike racks onto the fronts
of buses. People hung the bike on it, got on and rode. It happened fairly
often in spite of intense cold. Clever, I thought.


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"Jean B." > wrote in message
...
> Julie Bove wrote:
>> That's not true. I wouldn't go outside to play when it was cold and
>> rainy nor would my mother let me. My daughter HATES playing outside.
>> Too many bugs and too much dirt.

>
> Oh, that's funny to me. My mom insisted that I go outside, even when it
> was bitterly cold out. Of course, no one else was out under such
> circumstances, so that was rather boring.
>
>> We have sidewalks here. We've had two out of control cars in the past
>> few years go up onto the sidewalk. My husband's car was hit and then the
>> neighbor two doors down. Drunk drivers.

>
> At what hour was this? One can't live like a hot house plant just because
> something like this might happen!
>>
>> It is not safe to let kids play outside alone because there are just too
>> many weirdos out there. And too much lack of police. We don't live in
>> the city limits. There is a park across the street from us. No way
>> would I let my daughter go there without me. Too much drug activity
>> going on. Oh and the gangs have tagged this area now too.

>
> Well, gangs are another thing. Yeah, those would be dangerous.


We live in the suburbs. There is really no reason for us to be going
outside or crossing streets. Yes there is a park across the street. If you
are underage and in need of beer that's where you go to get it. Want
illegal drugs? You can get those there too. So that's a street we don't
need to be crossing. There is really nothing here within walking distance
and although our particular street has sidewalks there is nobody on the
other side of the street that we would visit. Go to the next busy cross
street and you lose the sidewalks. Yes, some people walk down there. I have
almost hit people walking there countless times. It's just not safe.

We drive everywhere we need to go. The closest grocery store is a good 2
miles from here. The school is about 6 as is the dance studio and my
parents live 9 miles from here.


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"Steve Pope" > wrote in message
...
> Julie Bove > wrote:
>
>>"Miche" > wrote in message

>
...
>>>>
>>>> And most likely she will be driving.
>>>
>>> Does she ever walk anywhere? Wow.

>>
>>No. Why would she? Her school is far away and so is her dance studio.
>>No
>>stores that she could walk to around here and she doesn't have any friends
>>that live near here. Not unless you consider 3 or 4 miles away to be
>>walking distance, which I don't. She does actually have one friend who
>>lives in an apartment near here but she is in Uganda for the summer and
>>outside of school they can rarely get together because my daughter is
>>always
>>at the dance studio during the week and busy with other things over the
>>weekend.

>
>>>> The last time I remember crossing a
>>>> street was like...back in May when we went to another city for a dance
>>>> show.
>>>> It is just not something we have to do much of here. Most places have
>>>> parking lots. That one did too but it was across the street.

>
>>> Incredible.

>
>>Why do you say that?

>
> Suburbs where nobody ever walks, and where all destinations are
> surrounded by large parking lots such that you never even cross
> a street on foot, are not entirely unique to parts of North America; but
> they are not the norm world-wide. What you're describing is in fact
> surprising to many people.


I suppose it could be. The only other country I've been to is Canada and
it's pretty much like here. At least the few parts I've been to.


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"Dave Smith" > wrote in message
. ..
> On 17/07/2011 11:06 AM, Steve Pope wrote:
> do you say that?
>>
>> Suburbs where nobody ever walks, and where all destinations are
>> surrounded by large parking lots such that you never even cross
>> a street on foot, are not entirely unique to parts of North America; but
>> they are not the norm world-wide. What you're describing is in fact
>> surprising to many people.
>>

>
> I have noticed a curious phenomenon. I think that city folks tend to walk
> more. I live in the country and we do see a number of people out walking
> and bicycling along our street, but it is a main street. The side roads
> are remarkable void of pedestrians an cyclists. People drive to town and
> to the mall and have to park near the door. I remember once seeing a guy
> walk out of the drug store, get into his car, start it up, pull a U turn
> and park in front of the hardware store across the street. It would have
> been faster and easier to just walk across the street.
>
> City people using public transit walk a few blocks to catch a bus and then
> get off at a stop close to their destination. If they have another place
> nearby they are more likely to walk than to wait for another bus and spend
> another fare. I think they walk a lot more.


I think so. I have never lived in the city proper. I don't think I would
want to.




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"Giusi" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Steve Pope" > ha scritto nel messaggio
>> I concluded that if I had to move to Dallas (it never happened, but
>> my employer was based there so the possibility was on my mind) I
>> would absolutely need to get a bicycle, and then live somewhere near
>> a metro train stop. There are a few walkable neighborhoods, such
>> as Uptown. Just a few. My place of employment in this hypothetical
>> scenario would have been four miles past the last stop on the Metro
>> line, so one could get there by train and bicycle although it may
>> have been a somewhat hazardous bike ride.
>> Steve

>
> When I was in Washington last winter they'd added bike racks onto the
> fronts of buses. People hung the bike on it, got on and rode. It
> happened fairly often in spite of intense cold. Clever, I thought.


Yes we have those here and they are a source of many complaints. I don't
know too many bus riders because the buses in this area pretty much only go
downtown, but they say it takes too long to put the bikes on and take them
off. Plus most drivers have an intense dislike for bike riders. They are a
royal pain! I need to be going somewhere but I can't go over 10 miles an
hour (if that) because I can't get around a bike rider. It's either stay
behind them or smash them flat. Because a couple of the roads I drive on
are two lane and no passing. And no bike lane!


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"Steve Pope" > wrote in message
...
> Julie Bove > wrote:
>
>>I guess some people like being outdoors. I don't and my daughter doesn't
>>either. We have a gardener now so no need to do yard work.

>
> I have to ask: if you don't like being outdoors, why have a garden?
> Is the garden visible from inside the house, through a window?


I don't have a garden. But I do have a yard that needs to be mowed.


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Julie Bove > wrote:

>"Steve Pope" > wrote in message


>> Suburbs where nobody ever walks, and where all destinations are
>> surrounded by large parking lots such that you never even cross
>> a street on foot, are not entirely unique to parts of North America; but
>> they are not the norm world-wide. What you're describing is in fact
>> surprising to many people.


>I suppose it could be. The only other country I've been to is Canada and
>it's pretty much like here. At least the few parts I've been to.


Cities that were developed mostly after the invention of the automobile,
and that are in relatively wealthy countries where most people can
be expected to have one, tend to be like you describe.

These two conditions mostly occur together in parts of north America.
On a worldwide basis and over the long term, it is not anywhere near
the norm.


Steve
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"Jean B." > wrote in message
...
> Julie Bove wrote:
>> "Ranée at Arabian Knits" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> In article
>>> >,
>>> Miche > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Only part of the year. But if there's cloud cover we don't go indoors,
>>> I grew up in a place where it rained most of the time from the end of
>>> October through the beginning of April. If we had not gone outside
>>> then, well, I think life would have been miserable. Rich and I used to
>>> go on walks in the rain. It was fun. We didn't need no stinking
>>> umbrellas. Where we used to live it didn't rain as much, but it was
>>> overcast quite a lot and if we didn't let our children outside then,
>>> they would have spent most of their lives indoors. I will admit to
>>> their being somewhat wimpy about the rain now, but that is because we
>>> have moved to a desert where the sun is out 300 days a year, so even a
>>> little rain is weird to them now. Here, it generally comes with wind,
>>> thunder and lightning, too.

>>
>> I guess some people like being outdoors. I don't and my daughter doesn't
>> either. We have a gardener now so no need to do yard work. Pretty much
>> the only time we go out there and stay out there is when it is too hot in
>> the house and we are driven out to the front yard where there is shade
>> and it is cooler. But with the way this summer is going that's not going
>> to happen any time soon.

> BUT... your daughter probably got that dislike from YOU! And that
> dislike is not healthy. Other than that...


Why do you say that? I don't think being outdoors is a healthy thing at
all. Yes, we need some sunlight for vitamin D. But I can do without all
the pollen and pollution and I burn very easily.

My husband loves being outdoors. I don't know why.

My daughter doesn't like it because of the bugs and the dirt. She goes
around looking for bugs and then complains when she sees them. Slugs are
also common in this area and she doesn't like them either.


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"Jean B." > wrote in message
> I actually contemplate getting a dog precisely because one meets more
> people that way--and the exercise is mandatory even in foul weather. Of
> course, the prospect of going out in hideous weather is not appealing, but
> still.... People do it, and I could do it.


Sure you could When a wee face looks up at you .....

> The other day I was in a shop where I saw a Silky Terrier that weighed all
> of 4 pounds. Sooo cute! But then I remind myself that I have shy cats,
> at least 1 of which would totally freak out if there was a dog here.


All my dogs are rescue dogs. There are so many lovely ones that need a kind
home. I do hope you think of that if you ever decide to have one




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Julie Bove > wrote:

>We live in the suburbs. There is really no reason for us to be going
>outside or crossing streets. Yes there is a park across the street. If you
>are underage and in need of beer that's where you go to get it. Want
>illegal drugs? You can get those there too. So that's a street we don't
>need to be crossing.


The cause and effect may be reversed here. Because you and your
neighbors do not go out and walk, the park has become a haven for
illicit activity rather than a pleasant place to walk. Not the other
way around.

I have to say that, were I to find myself doing what you do -- by
preference spending all my time indoors or in motor vehicles --
it would feel to me like I was trapped in a giant neurosis.



Steve
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On 7/17/2011 8:53 AM, Jean B. wrote:


>>

> Oh, I remember those days. When I was in elementary school, many of my
> friends' families were still producing babies, and the norm was to
> fatten them up. Actually, when my daughter was a toddler, we would go to
> the park, and there was an enormously fat baby, which the family seemed
> to regard as being a good thing.
>




Years ago, I was hired as a social worker for the welfare dept. right
out of college. One of my clients had had two children removed from
their home for neglect. By the time I saw them they had produced another
baby and at 3 months it was HUGE and Mom bragged about how much he was
eating.

The poor child looked like an overstuffed bed pillow with head, arms,
and legs protruding. I referred them for nutrition counseling at a
local hospital clinic but I doubt it did much good. In many cultures,
fat is still regarded as healthy or at least unimportant.

gloria p
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Julie Bove > wrote:

>"Steve Pope" > wrote in message


>> Suburbs where nobody ever walks, and where all destinations are
>> surrounded by large parking lots such that you never even cross
>> a street on foot, are not entirely unique to parts of North America; but
>> they are not the norm world-wide. What you're describing is in fact
>> surprising to many people.


>I suppose it could be. The only other country I've been to is Canada and
>it's pretty much like here. At least the few parts I've been to.


Some relatives live in suburban Aurora, Colorado. There is nothing that
they can walk to, other than the kid's elementary school, and the bus
line does not reach all the way to their suburb. Yet they take walks
every day. There are walking paths and bike paths through the suburb,
interconnecting the parks and along the main drainages. Depending on
time of year, you will see wildflowers, hawks and eagles.

But the climate there is a fair bit nicer than where you live.

Steve
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"Steve Pope" > wrote in message
...
> Julie Bove > wrote:
>
>>We live in the suburbs. There is really no reason for us to be going
>>outside or crossing streets. Yes there is a park across the street. If
>>you
>>are underage and in need of beer that's where you go to get it. Want
>>illegal drugs? You can get those there too. So that's a street we don't
>>need to be crossing.

>
> The cause and effect may be reversed here. Because you and your
> neighbors do not go out and walk, the park has become a haven for
> illicit activity rather than a pleasant place to walk. Not the other
> way around.
>
> I have to say that, were I to find myself doing what you do -- by
> preference spending all my time indoors or in motor vehicles --
> it would feel to me like I was trapped in a giant neurosis.


Luckily I don't feel that way.


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gloria.p > wrote:

>Years ago, I was hired as a social worker for the welfare dept. right
>out of college. One of my clients had had two children removed from
>their home for neglect. By the time I saw them they had produced another
>baby and at 3 months it was HUGE and Mom bragged about how much he was
>eating.
>
>The poor child looked like an overstuffed bed pillow with head, arms,
>and legs protruding. I referred them for nutrition counseling at a
>local hospital clinic but I doubt it did much good. In many cultures,
>fat is still regarded as healthy or at least unimportant.


Fat is healthy in the sense that most debilitating diseases result
in weight loss. So being fat can be a sign of good health. Also a
reserve of fat will get you through an interval of food scarcity.
Throughout history fatness has been a marker of affluence and, often,
status and power.

The attitude that we (modern society) deem these things no longer
important is just that -- an arbitrary attitude.

Steve


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Julie Bove > wrote:

>"Steve Pope" > wrote in message


>> I have to say that, were I to find myself doing what you do -- by
>> preference spending all my time indoors or in motor vehicles --
>> it would feel to me like I was trapped in a giant neurosis.


>Luckily I don't feel that way.


Obviously not, and that's good.

Due to my social background, my family of origin did not own an automobile
for most of the time I was a child. In the case of my older sisters,
my family never owned an automobile at all during their childhood. For
us the norm was always walking, riding a bicycle or taking public transit.
Prior to about age 10 I spent very little time in anyone's private
motor vehicle, perhaps a few times per year at most. And presently,
neither my wife nor myself need a motor vechicle for commuting
and this has been true the vast majority of our 33 years together.

Just trying to explain why your situation would seem very dissonant
to me.


Steve
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Giusi wrote:
> "Steve Pope" > ha scritto nel messaggio
>> I concluded that if I had to move to Dallas (it never happened, but
>> my employer was based there so the possibility was on my mind) I
>> would absolutely need to get a bicycle, and then live somewhere near
>> a metro train stop. There are a few walkable neighborhoods, such
>> as Uptown. Just a few. My place of employment in this hypothetical
>> scenario would have been four miles past the last stop on the Metro
>> line, so one could get there by train and bicycle although it may
>> have been a somewhat hazardous bike ride.
>> Steve

>
> When I was in Washington last winter they'd added bike racks onto the fronts
> of buses. People hung the bike on it, got on and rode. It happened fairly
> often in spite of intense cold. Clever, I thought.
>
>

Yes, that has happened in the Boston area too.

--
Jean B.
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Julie Bove wrote:
> "Jean B." > wrote in message
> ...
>> Julie Bove wrote:
>>> That's not true. I wouldn't go outside to play when it was cold and
>>> rainy nor would my mother let me. My daughter HATES playing outside.
>>> Too many bugs and too much dirt.

>> Oh, that's funny to me. My mom insisted that I go outside, even when it
>> was bitterly cold out. Of course, no one else was out under such
>> circumstances, so that was rather boring.
>>
>>> We have sidewalks here. We've had two out of control cars in the past
>>> few years go up onto the sidewalk. My husband's car was hit and then the
>>> neighbor two doors down. Drunk drivers.

>> At what hour was this? One can't live like a hot house plant just because
>> something like this might happen!
>>> It is not safe to let kids play outside alone because there are just too
>>> many weirdos out there. And too much lack of police. We don't live in
>>> the city limits. There is a park across the street from us. No way
>>> would I let my daughter go there without me. Too much drug activity
>>> going on. Oh and the gangs have tagged this area now too.

>> Well, gangs are another thing. Yeah, those would be dangerous.

>
> We live in the suburbs. There is really no reason for us to be going
> outside or crossing streets. Yes there is a park across the street. If you
> are underage and in need of beer that's where you go to get it. Want
> illegal drugs? You can get those there too. So that's a street we don't
> need to be crossing. There is really nothing here within walking distance
> and although our particular street has sidewalks there is nobody on the
> other side of the street that we would visit. Go to the next busy cross
> street and you lose the sidewalks. Yes, some people walk down there. I have
> almost hit people walking there countless times. It's just not safe.
>
> We drive everywhere we need to go. The closest grocery store is a good 2
> miles from here. The school is about 6 as is the dance studio and my
> parents live 9 miles from here.
>
>

Huh? I lived in a suburb growing up, lived in one again since my
daughter was 3, and live in another one now. One reason is to
walk simply for the sake of walking.

--
Jean B.
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Julie Bove wrote:
> "Jean B." > wrote in message
> ...
>> Julie Bove wrote:
>>> "Ranée at Arabian Knits" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> In article
>>>> >,
>>>> Miche > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Only part of the year. But if there's cloud cover we don't go indoors,
>>>> I grew up in a place where it rained most of the time from the end of
>>>> October through the beginning of April. If we had not gone outside
>>>> then, well, I think life would have been miserable. Rich and I used to
>>>> go on walks in the rain. It was fun. We didn't need no stinking
>>>> umbrellas. Where we used to live it didn't rain as much, but it was
>>>> overcast quite a lot and if we didn't let our children outside then,
>>>> they would have spent most of their lives indoors. I will admit to
>>>> their being somewhat wimpy about the rain now, but that is because we
>>>> have moved to a desert where the sun is out 300 days a year, so even a
>>>> little rain is weird to them now. Here, it generally comes with wind,
>>>> thunder and lightning, too.
>>> I guess some people like being outdoors. I don't and my daughter doesn't
>>> either. We have a gardener now so no need to do yard work. Pretty much
>>> the only time we go out there and stay out there is when it is too hot in
>>> the house and we are driven out to the front yard where there is shade
>>> and it is cooler. But with the way this summer is going that's not going
>>> to happen any time soon.

>> BUT... your daughter probably got that dislike from YOU! And that
>> dislike is not healthy. Other than that...

>
> Why do you say that? I don't think being outdoors is a healthy thing at
> all. Yes, we need some sunlight for vitamin D. But I can do without all
> the pollen and pollution and I burn very easily.
>
> My husband loves being outdoors. I don't know why.
>
> My daughter doesn't like it because of the bugs and the dirt. She goes
> around looking for bugs and then complains when she sees them. Slugs are
> also common in this area and she doesn't like them either.
>
>

The exercise factor? The aforementioned sunlight? I think
walking is also good for one's mental health, creativity, etc.
Unplug, walk, think, observe. It's all good.

--
Jean B.
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In article >,
"Julie Bove" > wrote:

> "Jean B." > wrote in message
> ...
> > Julie Bove wrote:
> >> "Ranée at Arabian Knits" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >>> In article
> >>> >,
> >>> Miche > wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Only part of the year. But if there's cloud cover we don't go indoors,
> >>> I grew up in a place where it rained most of the time from the end of
> >>> October through the beginning of April. If we had not gone outside
> >>> then, well, I think life would have been miserable. Rich and I used to
> >>> go on walks in the rain. It was fun. We didn't need no stinking
> >>> umbrellas. Where we used to live it didn't rain as much, but it was
> >>> overcast quite a lot and if we didn't let our children outside then,
> >>> they would have spent most of their lives indoors. I will admit to
> >>> their being somewhat wimpy about the rain now, but that is because we
> >>> have moved to a desert where the sun is out 300 days a year, so even a
> >>> little rain is weird to them now. Here, it generally comes with wind,
> >>> thunder and lightning, too.
> >>
> >> I guess some people like being outdoors. I don't and my daughter doesn't
> >> either. We have a gardener now so no need to do yard work. Pretty much
> >> the only time we go out there and stay out there is when it is too hot in
> >> the house and we are driven out to the front yard where there is shade
> >> and it is cooler. But with the way this summer is going that's not going
> >> to happen any time soon.

> > BUT... your daughter probably got that dislike from YOU! And that
> > dislike is not healthy. Other than that...

>
> Why do you say that? I don't think being outdoors is a healthy thing at
> all. Yes, we need some sunlight for vitamin D. But I can do without all
> the pollen and pollution and I burn very easily.


Indoor air is often at least as polluted as outdoor air.

> My husband loves being outdoors. I don't know why.


Because people are different.

> My daughter doesn't like it because of the bugs and the dirt. She goes
> around looking for bugs and then complains when she sees them. Slugs are
> also common in this area and she doesn't like them either.


Wow.

Miche

--
Electricians do it in three phases


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Ophelia wrote:
>
>
> "Jean B." > wrote in message
>> I actually contemplate getting a dog precisely because one meets more
>> people that way--and the exercise is mandatory even in foul weather. Of
>> course, the prospect of going out in hideous weather is not appealing,
>> but
>> still.... People do it, and I could do it.

>
> Sure you could When a wee face looks up at you .....
>
>> The other day I was in a shop where I saw a Silky Terrier that weighed
>> all
>> of 4 pounds. Sooo cute! But then I remind myself that I have shy cats,
>> at least 1 of which would totally freak out if there was a dog here.

>
> All my dogs are rescue dogs. There are so many lovely ones that need a
> kind
> home. I do hope you think of that if you ever decide to have one
>
>

Oh yes. Of course. I would definitely go that route. And if one
is patient there is probably no limit on the kind of dog one could
get. (Of course, I am a sucker, so if I just went to a shelter
and a dog looked in my in a needy way, I'd probably end up with
it--and I need to not even LOOK at cats that are up for adoption.)
For a long time, I was on a Persian (cat) rescue list, which is
how I ended up with the two Himmies that were supposed to be
short-term boarders. (I was not that smart when I got Ming
earlier, but I then educated myself about such things.)

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gloria.p wrote:
> On 7/17/2011 8:53 AM, Jean B. wrote:
>
>
>>>

>> Oh, I remember those days. When I was in elementary school, many of my
>> friends' families were still producing babies, and the norm was to
>> fatten them up. Actually, when my daughter was a toddler, we would go to
>> the park, and there was an enormously fat baby, which the family seemed
>> to regard as being a good thing.
>>

>
>
>
> Years ago, I was hired as a social worker for the welfare dept. right
> out of college. One of my clients had had two children removed from
> their home for neglect. By the time I saw them they had produced another
> baby and at 3 months it was HUGE and Mom bragged about how much he was
> eating.
>
> The poor child looked like an overstuffed bed pillow with head, arms,
> and legs protruding. I referred them for nutrition counseling at a
> local hospital clinic but I doubt it did much good. In many cultures,
> fat is still regarded as healthy or at least unimportant.
>
> gloria p


OMG Poor kid! Fat doesn't even mean (and frequently doesn't
mean) that folks are getting adequate nourishment.

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Steve Pope wrote:
> gloria.p > wrote:
>
>> Years ago, I was hired as a social worker for the welfare dept. right
>> out of college. One of my clients had had two children removed from
>> their home for neglect. By the time I saw them they had produced another
>> baby and at 3 months it was HUGE and Mom bragged about how much he was
>> eating.
>>
>> The poor child looked like an overstuffed bed pillow with head, arms,
>> and legs protruding. I referred them for nutrition counseling at a
>> local hospital clinic but I doubt it did much good. In many cultures,
>> fat is still regarded as healthy or at least unimportant.

>
> Fat is healthy in the sense that most debilitating diseases result
> in weight loss. So being fat can be a sign of good health. Also a
> reserve of fat will get you through an interval of food scarcity.
> Throughout history fatness has been a marker of affluence and, often,
> status and power.
>
> The attitude that we (modern society) deem these things no longer
> important is just that -- an arbitrary attitude.
>
> Steve


Ya know... I see what you are saying, which is true. I think
folks who carry around excess weight also have stronger bones.
BUT I also see that a lot of illnesses as we get older seem to
correlate with being fat. I apply this to myself too. I am not
thin. I don't even aspire to be thin. But I should still lose
weight.

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Miche > wrote:

> "Julie Bove" > wrote:


>> Why do you say that? I don't think being outdoors is a healthy thing at
>> all. Yes, we need some sunlight for vitamin D. But I can do without all
>> the pollen and pollution and I burn very easily.


>Indoor air is often at least as polluted as outdoor air.


Where Julie is, there is a huge amount of dust and dirt in the
outside air. This is due to poor soil-conservation practices,
overgrazing, underregulated construction activities, etc. The ground
has all been torn up and stripped of its native vegetation. This is
true for hundreds of miles in every direction. It is also an
exceptionally windy area.

So the outside environment is in fact pretty disgusting around there,
as the result of a man-made situation.


Steve
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"Jean B." > wrote in message
...
> Oh yes. Of course. I would definitely go that route. And if one is
> patient there is probably no limit on the kind of dog one could get. (Of
> course, I am a sucker, so if I just went to a shelter and a dog looked in
> my in a needy way, I'd probably end up with it-


Sounds about right

-and I need to not even LOOK at cats that are up for adoption.)
> For a long time, I was on a Persian (cat) rescue list, which is how I
> ended up with the two Himmies that were supposed to be short-term
> boarders. (I was not that smart when I got Ming earlier, but I then
> educated myself about such things.)


You are an animal lover. You will do ok



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On 17/07/2011 3:01 PM, Julie Bove wrote:

>
> Why do you say that? I don't think being outdoors is a healthy thing at
> all. Yes, we need some sunlight for vitamin D. But I can do without all
> the pollen and pollution and I burn very easily.
>
> My husband loves being outdoors. I don't know why.
>
> My daughter doesn't like it because of the bugs and the dirt. She goes
> around looking for bugs and then complains when she sees them. Slugs are
> also common in this area and she doesn't like them either.
>
>


Who`d have thought that you would come up with good reasons not to go
outside and get some exercise. Bugs and slugs? Hell,. I don't blame
you. I have never been attacked by a slug but I imagine that they can be
vicious.
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On Jul 17, 10:18*am, "Jean B." > wrote:
> Julie Bove wrote:
> > Bryan wrote:
> >> On Jul 14, 6:26 pm, Serene Vannoy > wrote:
> >>> On 07/14/2011 11:58 AM, Polly Esther wrote:

>
> >>>> What do you think about this? Yesterday ABC news was talking about a
> >>>> Harvard professor who suggests the gov't should take kids away from
> >>>> their parents if the chunky little darlings are over weight. Sounds
> >>>> like a plan to me but what is the state going to do with them when
> >>>> they take them?
> >>> When it's happened in the past (and it has), the children have been
> >>> quietly returned to their parents, because they didn't lose weight in
> >>> foster care. Oh, gosh, traumatizing kids doesn't make them thin? Huge
> >>> surprise.
> >> Keeping them the heck away from carbohydrates makes them thin.

>
> > Low carb diets are not recommended for growing kids.

>
> Oh?


Julie can find sources on the internet that say exactly that, and
she's pretty much a simpleton. There are things called essential
amino acids and essential fatty acids, but there aren't essential
carbs. If a child is getting fat, cut the carbs. If (s)he is too
thin, increase the carbs. It really is tragic that a human being--
with the same feelings as everyone who is reading this has--can be
condemned at such an early age to a life that is so unnecessarily
disadvantaged. I wasn't kidding when I wrote that letting your
daughter become obese is worse than whoring her out.
>
> --
> Jean B.


--Bryan
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Steve Pope wrote:
> Miche > wrote:
>
>> "Julie Bove" > wrote:

>
>>> Why do you say that? I don't think being outdoors is a healthy thing at
>>> all. Yes, we need some sunlight for vitamin D. But I can do without all
>>> the pollen and pollution and I burn very easily.

>
>> Indoor air is often at least as polluted as outdoor air.

>
> Where Julie is, there is a huge amount of dust and dirt in the
> outside air. This is due to poor soil-conservation practices,
> overgrazing, underregulated construction activities, etc. The ground
> has all been torn up and stripped of its native vegetation. This is
> true for hundreds of miles in every direction. It is also an
> exceptionally windy area.
>
> So the outside environment is in fact pretty disgusting around there,
> as the result of a man-made situation.
>
>
> Steve


I have not absorbed where Julie is.

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Steve Pope wrote:
> Julie Bove > wrote:
>
>> "Steve Pope" > wrote in message

>
>>> I have to say that, were I to find myself doing what you do -- by
>>> preference spending all my time indoors or in motor vehicles --
>>> it would feel to me like I was trapped in a giant neurosis.

>
>> Luckily I don't feel that way.

>
> Obviously not, and that's good.
>
> Due to my social background, my family of origin did not own an
> automobile for most of the time I was a child. In the case of my
> older sisters,
> my family never owned an automobile at all during their childhood.
> For us the norm was always walking, riding a bicycle or taking public
> transit. Prior to about age 10 I spent very little time in anyone's
> private
> motor vehicle, perhaps a few times per year at most. And presently,
> neither my wife nor myself need a motor vechicle for commuting
> and this has been true the vast majority of our 33 years together.
>
> Just trying to explain why your situation would seem very dissonant
> to me.


My mom did not drive when we were very young. So we didn't go anywhere
unless my dad took us. We lived in Wichita but a rural area. I do remember
walking to a little store once with my grandma who was watching us while my
mom was in the hospital. Grandma had forgotten to pack her denture adhesive
and had to go buy some. But I don't remember my mom walking anywhere with
us except to the neighbor's house.

My brother was very sick when he was young so my mom had to relearn how to
drive. She had an incident while driving that seemed to have scarred her
very badly mentally and relearning to drive was not an easy thing for her to
do.

She did get a car. She did drive, but... She would only drive on certain
roads. She would never go on the freeway and would not drive on any roads
that she considered to be busy. Therefore we learned to get all that we
needed within a 2 mile (or thereabouts) radius of our house. Thankfully in
those days there were several grocery stores, a drugstore, department store,
Dr., dentist and hospital. This was after we moved to WA. She did hate to
cross one busy road and sometimes I found myself having to talk her through
it. It was as though she had a panic attack with all the traffic.

There was a grocery store and then later a drugstore just one block from our
house. So we did often walk there. But aside from that, the only walking
we did was to go to a friend's house or to school. And I led a busy life as
a child with many extracurricular activities. So that mean using the car.

My friend who is a few years older than me moved to WA from Minnesota. Once
here they lived in Seattle proper and they did not have a car. She said she
was put on the city bus at an early age and she did walk places. But now
she mostly drives. She is afraid to drive in the snow and she will walk
then. At least to the bus. She works far enough away from her house that
she can not walk there. But if she walks a few blocks she can get a bus.
There is also a 7-11 near her house so she will walk there if she needs
something.

But many of us who live in the Suburbs do not have anything within walking
distance of our house. I was in Redmond today and couldn't believe how many
miles I drove through a residental area just to get to where the freeway
was. There were no stores of any kind in that area.




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Jean B. wrote:
> Julie Bove wrote:
>> "Jean B." > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Julie Bove wrote:
>>>> That's not true. I wouldn't go outside to play when it was cold
>>>> and rainy nor would my mother let me. My daughter HATES playing
>>>> outside. Too many bugs and too much dirt.
>>> Oh, that's funny to me. My mom insisted that I go outside, even
>>> when it was bitterly cold out. Of course, no one else was out
>>> under such circumstances, so that was rather boring.
>>>
>>>> We have sidewalks here. We've had two out of control cars in the
>>>> past few years go up onto the sidewalk. My husband's car was hit
>>>> and then the neighbor two doors down. Drunk drivers.
>>> At what hour was this? One can't live like a hot house plant just
>>> because something like this might happen!
>>>> It is not safe to let kids play outside alone because there are
>>>> just too many weirdos out there. And too much lack of police. We
>>>> don't live in the city limits. There is a park across the street
>>>> from us. No way would I let my daughter go there without me. Too
>>>> much drug activity going on. Oh and the gangs have tagged this
>>>> area now too.
>>> Well, gangs are another thing. Yeah, those would be dangerous.

>>
>> We live in the suburbs. There is really no reason for us to be going
>> outside or crossing streets. Yes there is a park across the street.
>> If you are underage and in need of beer that's where you go to get
>> it. Want illegal drugs? You can get those there too. So that's a
>> street we don't need to be crossing. There is really nothing here
>> within walking distance and although our particular street has
>> sidewalks there is nobody on the other side of the street that we
>> would visit. Go to the next busy cross street and you lose the
>> sidewalks. Yes, some people walk down there. I have almost hit
>> people walking there countless times. It's just not safe. We drive
>> everywhere we need to go. The closest grocery store is a
>> good 2 miles from here. The school is about 6 as is the dance
>> studio and my parents live 9 miles from here.
>>
>>

> Huh? I lived in a suburb growing up, lived in one again since my
> daughter was 3, and live in another one now. One reason is to
> walk simply for the sake of walking.


Well perhaps you are not disabled. I am. So I only walk when I have to
walk because it is very difficult for me to do.


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"Dave Smith" > wrote

>
> Who`d have thought that you would come up with good reasons not to go
> outside and get some exercise. Bugs and slugs? Hell,. I don't blame you.
> I have never been attacked by a slug but I imagine that they can be
> vicious.


A slug once chased me for half a block. I was lucky to reach a tree and
climb into one of the higher branches. A neighbor finally trapped the slug
in a jelly jar so I was able to come down. Now I carry a box of salt with
me in case of another attack.

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Jean B. wrote:
> Julie Bove wrote:
>> "Jean B." > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Julie Bove wrote:
>>>> "Ranée at Arabian Knits" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> In article
>>>>> >,
>>>>> Miche > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Only part of the year. But if there's cloud cover we don't go
>>>>>> indoors,
>>>>> I grew up in a place where it rained most of the time from the
>>>>> end of October through the beginning of April. If we had not
>>>>> gone outside then, well, I think life would have been miserable. Rich
>>>>> and I used to go on walks in the rain. It was fun. We
>>>>> didn't need no stinking umbrellas. Where we used to live it
>>>>> didn't rain as much, but it was overcast quite a lot and if we
>>>>> didn't let our children outside then, they would have spent most
>>>>> of their lives indoors. I will admit to their being somewhat
>>>>> wimpy about the rain now, but that is because we have moved to a
>>>>> desert where the sun is out 300 days a year, so even a little
>>>>> rain is weird to them now. Here, it generally comes with wind,
>>>>> thunder and lightning, too.
>>>> I guess some people like being outdoors. I don't and my daughter
>>>> doesn't either. We have a gardener now so no need to do yard
>>>> work. Pretty much the only time we go out there and stay out
>>>> there is when it is too hot in the house and we are driven out to
>>>> the front yard where there is shade and it is cooler. But with
>>>> the way this summer is going that's not going to happen any time
>>>> soon.
>>> BUT... your daughter probably got that dislike from YOU! And that
>>> dislike is not healthy. Other than that...

>>
>> Why do you say that? I don't think being outdoors is a healthy
>> thing at all. Yes, we need some sunlight for vitamin D. But I can
>> do without all the pollen and pollution and I burn very easily.
>>
>> My husband loves being outdoors. I don't know why.
>>
>> My daughter doesn't like it because of the bugs and the dirt. She
>> goes around looking for bugs and then complains when she sees them. Slugs
>> are also common in this area and she doesn't like them either.
>>
>>

> The exercise factor? The aforementioned sunlight? I think
> walking is also good for one's mental health, creativity, etc.
> Unplug, walk, think, observe. It's all good.


I simply can not walk very fast or very far. I do not like being outside
and breathing in all the car fumes and pollen. We live on a very busy
street and trust me there is nothing interesting to see.


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Steve Pope wrote:
> Miche > wrote:
>
>> "Julie Bove" > wrote:

>
>>> Why do you say that? I don't think being outdoors is a healthy
>>> thing at all. Yes, we need some sunlight for vitamin D. But I can
>>> do without all the pollen and pollution and I burn very easily.

>
>> Indoor air is often at least as polluted as outdoor air.

>
> Where Julie is, there is a huge amount of dust and dirt in the
> outside air. This is due to poor soil-conservation practices,
> overgrazing, underregulated construction activities, etc. The ground
> has all been torn up and stripped of its native vegetation. This is
> true for hundreds of miles in every direction. It is also an
> exceptionally windy area.
>
> So the outside environment is in fact pretty disgusting around there,
> as the result of a man-made situation.


This area is really being built up. I am surrounded by construction on all
sides. When they took the farms down, the mice moved in. And yes, it can
be very windy at times. Just the other day all this brown stuff blew all
over my van. I don't know what it was. I have to get the passenger air
filter changed on it regularly. It fills up sooo fast and then I start
having trouble breathing when I am in there. I also have very bad
envronmental allergies.

Scotch Broom was blooming a few weeks back and that makes me cough and
sneeze my head off if I walk or drive by it. Walking home from school was
bad when it was blooming. I would try to hold my breath and run past the
bushes.

Normally the cottonwood would be blowing earlier in the season but we have
had such odd weather. We are still getting it. I am very allergic to that
as well. But grass is the worst. I really suffer if I go by where someone
is mowing. I used to work at a golf course where they mowed something
daily. I always had to stay inside until well after they had finished
mowing or I'd really suffer.

I guess when people don't have allergies they take these things for granted.
And so far to date there has been no allergy med that has helped me. They
either give side effects or do nothing at all. I have to wash my eyes at
least once a day with baby shampoo to get the pollen out. Luckily the
allergy eye drops do seem to help. So at least my eyes can get relief. But
I am prone to hives in my eyes and that is no fun.


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Dave Smith wrote:
> On 17/07/2011 3:01 PM, Julie Bove wrote:
>
>>
>> Why do you say that? I don't think being outdoors is a healthy
>> thing at all. Yes, we need some sunlight for vitamin D. But I can
>> do without all the pollen and pollution and I burn very easily.
>>
>> My husband loves being outdoors. I don't know why.
>>
>> My daughter doesn't like it because of the bugs and the dirt. She
>> goes around looking for bugs and then complains when she sees them. Slugs
>> are also common in this area and she doesn't like them either.
>>
>>

>
> Who`d have thought that you would come up with good reasons not to go
> outside and get some exercise. Bugs and slugs? Hell,. I don't blame
> you. I have never been attacked by a slug but I imagine that they can
> be vicious.


One doesn't need to go outside to exercise. Prior to her injury she was
taking 12 hours of dance per week. Now she can not stand up for long or
walk very far without pain. She sees the Dr. again towards the end of
August. She is restricted and wearing a corset until then.




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Janet wrote:
> In article >,
> says...
>>
>> "Giusi" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Polly Esther" > ha scritto nel messaggio
>>> ...
>>>> What do you think about this? Yesterday ABC news was talking
>>>> about a Harvard professor who suggests the gov't should take kids
>>>> away from their parents if the chunky little darlings are over
>>>> weight. Sounds like a plan to me but what is the state going to
>>>> do with them when they take them? Here's a bit of the report
>>>>
http://www.imperfectparent.com/topic...bese-children/
>>>> Polly
>>>
>>> I think it's not just parents but the culture at fault. When kids
>>> ran outside to play kick the can and could ride their bikes for
>>> miles to go fishing, they were less fat. We sell them Nintendo,
>>> Wii, PlayStation, and gear movies and TV to 12 year old boys and
>>> what do you think will happen?

>>
>> Kids can not do those sorts of things any more in many places
>> because it is just not safe to do so.

>
> Then their parents could supervise, or arrange supervision.
>
>
>> And here it is cold and cloudy much of the time.

>
> So? Kids in cold cloudy climates play outside.


I don't see too many kids playing outside here.


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Janet wrote:
> In article >,
> says...
>>
>> "Goomba" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Julie Bove wrote:
>>>> Giusi wrote:
>>>
>>>>> My point is that no one can do it except the citizens. The culture
>>>>> has to make having good neighborhoods, having help for delinquents
>>>>> and addicts, watching out for each other and being helpful has to
>>>>> be more important than a motorhome or a fishing boat or an SUV or
>>>>> a 42" flat screen TV. If the neighborhood is going to hell in a
>>>>> handbasket, the government cannot fix it.
>>>>
>>>> Where is all this money going to come from to do that?
>>>>
>>>> There are no motorhomes or boats in this neighborhood.
>>> How much money does it cost for parents to hang out outside, perhaps
>>> getting to know each other while at the same time watching the kids
>>> play together. That's free, yet can also be priceless.
>>> Do you *always* have an excuse why things can't happen? That's your
>>> troll schtick...right?

>>

> Then they must be paying a childminder, who could mind the child
> outdoors.


Why do you people love the outdoors so much? Just because you like it
doesn't mean everybody does! Is the child supposed to do their homework
outdoors too? When my daughter was younger she had at least 2 hours of
homework per night, very little of which could be done outdoor. Much of it
had to be done on the computer.


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Jean B. wrote:
> Steve Pope wrote:
>> Miche > wrote:
>>
>>> "Julie Bove" > wrote:

>>
>>>> Why do you say that? I don't think being outdoors is a healthy
>>>> thing at all. Yes, we need some sunlight for vitamin D. But I
>>>> can do without all the pollen and pollution and I burn very easily.

>>
>>> Indoor air is often at least as polluted as outdoor air.

>>
>> Where Julie is, there is a huge amount of dust and dirt in the
>> outside air. This is due to poor soil-conservation practices,
>> overgrazing, underregulated construction activities, etc. The ground
>> has all been torn up and stripped of its native vegetation. This is
>> true for hundreds of miles in every direction. It is also an
>> exceptionally windy area.
>>
>> So the outside environment is in fact pretty disgusting around there,
>> as the result of a man-made situation.
>>
>>
>> Steve

>
> I have not absorbed where Julie is.


Bothell WA but outside city limits. Closer to Mill Creek.


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In article ,
"Polly Esther" wrote:

What do you think about this? Yesterday ABC news was talking about a
Harvard professor who suggests the gov't should take kids away from their
parents if the chunky little darlings are over weight. Sounds like a plan
to me but what is the state going to do with them when they take them?

Sounds fine to me as long as they take away the super-skinny ones too.

Miche
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