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  #61 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 04-01-2004, 03:20 PM
Jahnu
 
Posts: n/a
Default No need for farm animals.

On Sun, 4 Jan 2004 08:59:01 -0500, "Tim" aaa wrote:

Ha ha. I see that you avoid "the facts" when it suits you. Once again - how
do you suggest that people in Northern climates survive without eating
animals? Or should they simply die because they don't fit in with your vegan
ideology?


How does a moose survive in the Swedish woods in minus 30 C? I come
from Scandinavia. That's a northern climate. I have survived the last
25 years without meat. Gee, how do you figure I did that?

BTW, I don't advocate veganism. I advocate vegetarianism. Still mooses
don't take milk products.


www.krishna.com
www.iskcon.org

  #62 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 04-01-2004, 03:43 PM
Tim
 
Posts: n/a
Default No need for farm animals.


"Jahnu" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 4 Jan 2004 08:59:01 -0500, "Tim" aaa wrote:

Ha ha. I see that you avoid "the facts" when it suits you. Once again -

how
do you suggest that people in Northern climates survive without eating
animals? Or should they simply die because they don't fit in with your

vegan
ideology?


How does a moose survive in the Swedish woods in minus 30 C? I come
from Scandinavia. That's a northern climate. I have survived the last
25 years without meat. Gee, how do you figure I did that?

BTW, I don't advocate veganism. I advocate vegetarianism. Still mooses
don't take milk products.


www.krishna.com
www.iskcon.org


FYI. A moose is not a human. Moose have a tendency to be covered in hair.
Avacados and what ever else you ate don't grow in -30c. Also you probably
lived in a heated house. Still moose aren't human. And you call my point
moronic - ha.

Like you point out veggies don't grow where Eskimos live. How then can they
be herbivores? The fat afforded by certain veggies will not help someone
exposed to the elements. Again living in a nice heated house doesn't equate
you with an Eskimo or Siberian.


  #63 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 04-01-2004, 03:48 PM
Halcitron
 
Posts: n/a
Default No need for farm animals.

From: Keynes
Newsgroups: alt.philosophy, talk.philosophy.misc, talk.politics.animals,
misc.rural, uk.business.agriculture, alt.food.vegan
Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 21:49:38 -0600



On Fri, 02 Jan 2004 02:25:22 GMT, "Rubystars" wrote:


"Jonathan Ball" wrote in message
thlink.net...
Rubystars wrote:

"Jonathan Ball" wrote in message
...

OF COURSE "this country" could be fed without raising any
farm animals.


That would force a lot of people to go on vegan diets though and most
wouldn't know how to do so properly, even some who do know how to do the
right things have to stop.

They could figure it out. The point is, farm animals
aren't necessary to feed people.


At the population we have now, I think they are.

If there was a smaller population broken up into villages, etc. then sure,
we wouldn't need farm animals, but we do right now.

-Rubystars


It's just customary. Pre WWII folks in the US ate less than half as
much meat per capita. A political candidate ran on the platform
of 'a chicken in every pot'. Even meat on sundays was a luxury
for many (bacon possibly excepted).


Can you name that politician? And was not the promise based on more jobs?



Now we have an obesity-diabetes problem that's becoming epidemic.
There's an indian tribe split by the mexican border. Those on the US side
are nearly 100% obese and diabetic. Those on the mexican side kept their
traditional diet and don't even have those problems.


Can you name that tribe? Where are they?



There's also the problem with the stink and pollution of
factory farming and the increased likelyhood (near certainty)
of epidemic e coli and salmonella infections. I don't mention the
morality of killing animals. Animals kill animals even if we don't.
All life feeds on other life. Those poor birds, mice, snakes and
bugs in the fields are eating one another.

By what do you measure the wealth of a
birds, mice, snakes and bugs in the fields?

The bird would probably feel wealthy if it had many bugs and seed to eat. The
mouse might consider a few seeds to be of some wealth. The snake would feel
wealthy with too many mice in the field.

Fact is every rung in the food chain feel wealthy if there is an abundance of a
certain food item, and less competiton for the resources.

But if I had to kill animals
to eat myself, I would only do it in times of direst emergency.


And you would have to adjust to eating meats, where as you would be in
competition with the omnivore who regularly eats vegetables and meats.


It takes about nine pounds of feed to make a pound of beef,
not counting quite a bit of water both for cows and feed.
(You have to feed a cow for years. That feed is gone away.)


Nope it is recyled as nitrogen-rich fertilizer.

Purely grass fed beef would be economical, but feeding them
is wasteful. Chickens, turkeys and fish have a 2-3 pound feed
to one pound of meat ratio. Eggs are even more efficient.
(Unfortunately, livestock is chock full of added hormones
and antibiotics. That can't be good in the long run.)

Most of the US grain goes into feed, with excesses exported to
feed livestock in other countries. If we ate plants directly we'd have
a huge surplus (which would be a bit of an economic problem since
grain is already grown at a loss, requiring subsidies).


Are you sure there wouldn't be more competiton for vegetables, thus driving the
prices up?


Most other countries don't eat as much meat as we do.
Devout hindus and buddhists eat no meat. Our diet is too
cheap and calorie rich for our own good. A mosty vegetarian
diet can be nutritionally balanced and quite delicious.
It's just not in our western culture these days to even think
about it. I love meat - fatty meat - myself, and eat it often.
But cuban rice and beans is delicious. South Indian cooking
is outstanding. Chinese vegetable stews (sometimes flavored
with a bit of meat) are my specialty. And we often have meat-free
pasta meals around here. Meat is like candy.
You can get too much for your own good.


I try to eat a balanced diet myself, Italian, Chinese, Mexican, and good old
American foods. I'd even eat a Vegan if I had to.






caveat lector

Halcitron misc.survivalism
Check your six and know when to duck.
NRA Member since 2002
The Law of the Land, is the weapon in your hand.

Smith & Wesson starts where the Bill of Rights stop.

  #64 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 04-01-2004, 05:53 PM
jambalaya
 
Posts: n/a
Default ****wit: I am lodging complaints with Mindspring every timeyou forge my name to a post

Fran wrote:

"Jonathan Ball" wrote in message

"Jonathan Ball" wrote in message



****wit David Harrison forged my name and wrote:



****WIT, you really are going to hear from Mindspring
over this. Stop forging my name to your posts, ****WIT.



(snip) ****WIT's posting under my name
is prohibited by Mindspring's terms-of-use agreement.



Stop being such a whiner you miserable hypocrite.


Go **** yourself with a broken bottle, fat slag.

  #65 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 04-01-2004, 06:10 PM
rick etter
 
Posts: n/a
Default No need for farm animals.


"Jahnu" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 3 Jan 2004 12:49:11 -0500, "rick etter"
wrote:


"Jahnu" wrote in message


Hey meathead, you wouldn't know a sound argument if it fell on your
head in broad daylight.
==============

Yes, I would, and yours isn't one of them...


blah blah

==============
yep, that's all you have....


snippage of nothing...




  #66 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 04-01-2004, 06:11 PM
rick etter
 
Posts: n/a
Default No need for farm animals.


"Jahnu" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 3 Jan 2004 12:50:50 -0500, "rick etter"
wrote:


snippage of more AR/vegan BS, lys and delusions. Too bad that's all

you've
got, killer.



snippage of more from a cut-n-paste bozo that has nothing to say of his own,
mainly because his veagn diet has diminished his one remaining braincell to
mush...


  #67 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 04-01-2004, 06:12 PM
rick etter
 
Posts: n/a
Default No need for farm animals.


"Russ Thompson" wrote in message
...
It IS true. Only meatheads and idiots who have made a business out of
killing animals will object to it.

*** See the "uninformed and ignorant" part of my message. I retract the
"well meaning".
The message I replied to makes claims that are demonstratably

false.

Kala Thompson
Farmer
Richland Center, Wi


MAD COWS OR MAD SCIENTISTS?

THE SUPPRESSION OF ALTERNATIVE EXPLANATIONS


(snip a long irrelevent artical that has nothing to do with the current
discussion)

What is you point in changing the subject? Couldn't find any support for
you origional claims?

==================
That's all he has, cut-n-paste. Never has anything to actually refute what
he doens't like said, and can never really defend his own position.



Kala Thompson
Farmer
Richland Center, Wi, USA





-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
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  #68 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 04-01-2004, 06:15 PM
Jonathan Ball
 
Posts: n/a
Default No need for farm animals.

Halcitron wrote:

From: Keynes
Newsgroups: alt.philosophy, talk.philosophy.misc, talk.politics.animals,
misc.rural, uk.business.agriculture, alt.food.vegan
Date: Thu, 01 Jan 2004 21:49:38 -0600




On Fri, 02 Jan 2004 02:25:22 GMT, "Rubystars" wrote:


"Jonathan Ball" wrote in message
rthlink.net...

Rubystars wrote:


"Jonathan Ball" wrote in message
om...


OF COURSE "this country" could be fed without raising any
farm animals.


That would force a lot of people to go on vegan diets though and most
wouldn't know how to do so properly, even some who do know how to do the
right things have to stop.

They could figure it out. The point is, farm animals
aren't necessary to feed people.

At the population we have now, I think they are.

If there was a smaller population broken up into villages, etc. then sure,
we wouldn't need farm animals, but we do right now.

-Rubystars


It's just customary. Pre WWII folks in the US ate less than half as
much meat per capita. A political candidate ran on the platform
of 'a chicken in every pot'. Even meat on sundays was a luxury
for many (bacon possibly excepted).



Can you name that politician? And was not the promise based on more jobs?


It was Herbert Hoover, and the slogan was very much a
promise of overall prosperity. The full slogan is, "A
chicken in every pot and a car in every garage." Now,
THAT has to make the vegetarian/environmental
extremists happy!

[...]

It takes about nine pounds of feed to make a pound of beef,


NO!!! That's wrong. It takes about 6-8 pounds of feed
to produce an *additional* pound of animal, once the
animal has gone to the feedlot. However, the animal
*enters* the feedlot already weighing 500-750 pounds, a
lot of which is edible beef. It takes ZERO pounds of
feed to make all the edible beef already on the animal
when it entered the feedlot.

This is one of the most common and most egregious
errors made by the "animal rights" loons every time
they stupidly try to discuss the issue: they assume
that the ratio of grain:beef, ranging from 6:1 to 8:1,
applies to *all* the edible beef. It doesn't; it only
applies to the additional weight gained in the feedlot.

not counting quite a bit of water both for cows and feed.
(You have to feed a cow for years. That feed is gone away.)



Nope it is recyled as nitrogen-rich fertilizer.


Purely grass fed beef would be economical, but feeding them
is wasteful. Chickens, turkeys and fish have a 2-3 pound feed
to one pound of meat ratio. Eggs are even more efficient.
(Unfortunately, livestock is chock full of added hormones
and antibiotics. That can't be good in the long run.)

Most of the US grain goes into feed, with excesses exported to
feed livestock in other countries. If we ate plants directly we'd have
a huge surplus (which would be a bit of an economic problem since
grain is already grown at a loss, requiring subsidies).



Are you sure there wouldn't be more competiton for vegetables, thus driving the
prices up?


No, there would not be more competition for vegetables.
There would be more *competitors* on the supply side
of vegetables, probably driving prices down.

There's no getting around it: meat is more expensive
to produce than vegetables, which is why it costs more.
It's beside the point, though: people are *willing*
to pay more for meat, and there's no reason they
shouldn't have that for which they are willing to pay,
assuming the product is legal and no rights are
violated in producing it. Those conditions are met for
the production, sale and consumption of meat. Thus,
the market provides us with meat.

  #69 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 04-01-2004, 06:15 PM
rick etter
 
Posts: n/a
Default No need for farm animals.


"Jahnu" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 3 Jan 2004 14:02:18 -0500, "Allyb" wrote:

I care because I think it's really interesting what you do. I'm not

nearly
as interested in fantasy as I am about reality. I know you're probably
going to have something biting to say about that since you think you know
the lifestyle I live, but it's the truth. I'm honestly curious about

what
motivates you. Maybe I should have been an anthropologist............

I'm
very interested in atypical responses to stimuli. I think it's atypical
that anti-vegans spend so much time in a vegan newsgroup, you piqued my
interest. I'm not a one issue girl ya know.


The reason that they hang out in Vegan news groups and spew their BS
is simply because they don't have anywhere else to vent all the anger
and envy that come from their bad diet.

==============================
Hey loser, you too should check the headers. How many vegan groups do you
see there? As for diet, check the lists of people who live the longest,
they aren't dominated by vegans, killer.


I mean, just imagine what it
does to your brain to eat a Big Mac (which is basically a piece of
stool in a bun garnished with snot), and these guys grew up on the
stuff. On top of that they are probably Americans which means they
were placed in front of the TV as soon as they could keep their little
wobbly heads up by themselves and then spoonfed with Disney and Power
Rangers. No wonder they are brain dead.

====================
You sould know all about brain-dead killer, your two braincells are really
trying to work overtime here to keep your udiocy flowing.




www.krishna.com
www.iskcon.org



  #70 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 04-01-2004, 06:19 PM
rick etter
 
Posts: n/a
Default No need for farm animals.


"Jahnu" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 4 Jan 2004 08:59:01 -0500, "Tim" aaa wrote:

Ha ha. I see that you avoid "the facts" when it suits you. Once again -

how
do you suggest that people in Northern climates survive without eating
animals? Or should they simply die because they don't fit in with your

vegan
ideology?


How does a moose survive in the Swedish woods in minus 30 C?

==========================
Then why can't you live like the moose stupid? What's the matter, you
haven't learned that you cannot eat grass yet killer?


I come
from Scandinavia. That's a northern climate. I have survived the last
25 years without meat. Gee, how do you figure I did that?

=================
Hey stupid, your diet hen causes far more animal deathand suffering than
almost anybody else. Do you think all that imported stuff just falls like
manna from heaven? The transportation costs alone for your food is a
massive killer. You are truely one brain dead hypocrite.



BTW, I don't advocate veganism. I advocate vegetarianism. Still mooses
don't take milk products.

==================
The you're still an idiot. Your diet causes far more death and suffering
than it needs to.



www.krishna.com
www.iskcon.org





  #71 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 04-01-2004, 06:22 PM
rick etter
 
Posts: n/a
Default No need for farm animals.


"Jahnu" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 3 Jan 2004 12:51:40 -0500, "rick etter"
wrote:

Another ly. Too bad that's all you have, killer.



HOW TO WIN AN ARGUMENT WITH A MEAT EATER

==================
Something you've never done, killer.



The New York Times, Tuesday, June 20,



snippage of 'factoids' that have no bearing on the massive amounts of death
and suffering *you* cause by you diet.
Are you really so stupid as to believe that a veg*n diet in the far north is
benificial to animals overall? ou really need to feed those two braincells
of yours if you do, killer.

Now, go have that nice blood-drenched dinner, hypocrite.


  #72 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 04-01-2004, 06:24 PM
rick etter
 
Posts: n/a
Default No need for farm animals.


"Jahnu" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 4 Jan 2004 08:42:57 -0600, "Russ Thompson"
wrote:

You mean like this one:

Russ Thompson wrote:

"That's but a minor impediment to the irrational
religious fanatics known as "animal rights activists".


I didn't write that.

Kala Thompson
Farmer
Richland Center, WI USA


I know,

================
Then why did you ly, again? Lys seem to be the only things that you have to
post, eh killer?




Now, go have that nice blood-drenched dinner, hypocrite.







but someone did. Why don't you complain about him being
irrational?


www.krishna.com
www.iskcon.org



  #73 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 04-01-2004, 06:48 PM
rick etter
 
Posts: n/a
Default No need for farm animals.


"Jahnu" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 3 Jan 2004 13:34:46 -0500, "Allyb" wrote:

Jahnu, don't waste your time arguing with them, it'll just give you

stress,
and give them too much enjoyment.


Allyb, I appreciate your concern, but it doesn't distress me to smash
and crush meat-head atheists with facts. It gives me great pleasure
to see how they squirm and try to dodge the facts with their lame and
imbecile responses.

========================
ROTFLMAO This from the cut-n-paster that has never refuted anything I've
said. What a hoot! Ignoring what people say, and then posting a bunch of
idiocy that doesn't address what was siad is not watching anyone squirm but
you, killer.
\

But it never ceases to amaze me that they don't
seem to get how idiotic and uninformed they sound.
=======================

Maybe because you can't read for comprehension, hypocrite?


Actually Rick and Jonathon, I'm curious
why you're so interested in arguing with the posters here. People don't
typically hang out with those they vehemently disagree with. Is it just
something you do for entertainment; are you members of the beef council
looking for converts; is it a mission from God? Do vegetarians come to

your
"eat meat a lot" newsgroup and pounce on you, so you do this for
retribution? Maybe it's a gang thing. I guess that would make you the
bloods.... (ha ha)


The fact is that they are just a bunch of cowards who feel very brave
behind their little key-boards. The only way they can find a voice is
here on usenet because in real life nobody (with a brain) cares for
what they have to say.

=======================
LOL Then why do you keep responding idiot? And I might add, responding nut
never addressing what is dais. Why you doing all the tap dancing and
dodging, killer?





www.krishna.com
www.iskcon.org



  #74 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 04-01-2004, 07:48 PM
Russ Thompson
 
Posts: n/a
Default No need for farm animals.

I know, but someone did. Why don't you complain about him being
irrational?


*** I don't think it is helpful to complain about anyone being irrational.
When a person is being irrational it is pretty clear to all normal
reasonable people.

Kala Thompson
Farmer
Richland Center, Wi USA




-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
  #75 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 04-01-2004, 08:05 PM
Jonathan Ball
 
Posts: n/a
Default No need for farm animals.

Jahnu wrote:
On Sun, 4 Jan 2004 08:42:57 -0600, "Russ Thompson"
wrote:


You mean like this one:


Russ Thompson wrote:

"That's but a minor impediment to the irrational
religious fanatics known as "animal rights activists".


I didn't write that.

Kala Thompson
Farmer
Richland Center, WI USA



I know, but someone did. Why don't you complain about him being
irrational?


It wasn't irrational.



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