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  #91 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 05-01-2004, 04:27 PM
Michael Saunby
 
Posts: n/a
Default No need for farm animals.


"Russ Thompson" wrote in message
...
The Hunger Argument

Number of people worldwide who will die of starvation this year: 60
million.


Yet the global population will continue to rise at a significant rate.
Though of course Africa is affected significantly by starvation in many
countries, and of course the 2 million children a year who die from
diarrhea and the ever worsening problem of AIDs will take another 3 million
souls in 2004, and there are plenty of other diseases that aren't just
killing people but really destroying quality of life. Perhaps we could
feed more people, but what would they then die of?

See http://www.usaid.gov/our_work/global_health/

Number of people who could be adequately fed with the grain saved if
Americans reduced their intake of meat by 10 perc.: 60 million


A human being cannot adequately be fed on nothing but grain. Clearly this
is a lie!

Human beings in America: 243 million
Number of people who could be fed with grain and soybeans now eaten by
U.S. livestock: 1.3 billion
Percentage of corn grown in the U.S. eaten by people: 20
Percentage of corn grown in the U.S. eaten by livestock: 80


Perhaps Americans don't wish to live on grain. Does anyone?

Percentage of oats grown in the U.S. eaten by livestock: 95
Percentage of protein waste by cycling grain through livestock: 99
How frequently a child starves to death: every 2 seconds
Pounds of potatoes that can be grown on an ac 20.OOO


Or potato. Which of course are a really bugger to store so populations
that become dependent on potatoes must have good harvests every year. With
really good pesticides and plenty of water I guess this can be done, but
would you want to bet your population on it?


*** Much to my surpise I have discovered that there are certain people

who
actually buy into the above.


Of course there are, though not as many as believe in alien abductions.
Still too many though.

My question for those people is if you are under the impression that
the above could be true what is your opinion of CRP?


Now you're expecting them to have some grasp of economics and politics
which they're unlikely to cover until they get to "big school".

For those that don't know CRP is the program where the FSA pays

land
owners not to grow crops on their land. Normal contracts are for 10 years
and the land must me planted to grass and left alone. In exchange the

land
owner recieves a direct payment that is usually about 150% of the local
going rate for rented farm land. Currently there are millions of acres in
this program in the USA.

Kala Thompson
Farmer
Richland Center, Wi USA


Michael Saunby



  #92 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 05-01-2004, 04:33 PM
Jonathan Ball
 
Posts: n/a
Default No need for farm animals.

Jahnu wrote:

On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 20:09:43 GMT, Jonathan Ball
wrote:


Jahnu wrote:



Constitution? You forget I am from Europe. I couldn't care less about
your constitution.


Irrelevant, and truly a stupid, ****witted dodge. The
point is that stupid irrational "vegans" want to
overthrow the legitimate, lawful, constitutional
governments wherever they are, in order to impose their
benighted values on others.



Not me. I just hate atheist meat-heads.


We already knew you were all about hate. Hate is a
defining characteristic of "veganism".



Anyone who supports the mass slaughter of animals in the modern
consumer culture must be completely devoid of any empathy towards
other living entities.


False. Repeating it, and using more words to do so,
will not make it true. Your claim is false.



According to who?


According to the fact you haven't supported your claim.



No, you are not stating facts. You are venting your
spleen; nothing more.



I am merely stating facts, that's all.


You are not stating facts; you are merely venting your
spleen, letting your ugly hatred run away with you.


Yes, it is. It is a rational observation of you and
your social milieu.


  #93 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 05-01-2004, 05:11 PM
Jonathan Ball
 
Posts: n/a
Default Grain-fed humans?

Michael Saunby wrote:

"Russ Thompson" wrote in message
...

The Hunger Argument

Number of people worldwide who will die of starvation this year: 60
million.



Yet the global population will continue to rise at a significant rate.
Though of course Africa is affected significantly by starvation in many
countries, and of course the 2 million children a year who die from
diarrhea and the ever worsening problem of AIDs will take another 3 million
souls in 2004, and there are plenty of other diseases that aren't just
killing people but really destroying quality of life. Perhaps we could
feed more people, but what would they then die of?

See http://www.usaid.gov/our_work/global_health/


Number of people who could be adequately fed with the grain saved if
Americans reduced their intake of meat by 10 perc.: 60 million



A human being cannot adequately be fed on nothing but grain. Clearly this
is a lie!


Stated as it is, it is worse than a lie; it's an entire
fantasy.

Whenever "vegan" fruitcakes start ranting about the
eeeeeevils of feeding grain to livestock, they make the
most unbelievable, simplistic assumption that the VERY
SAME GRAIN could be fed to "starving" people elsewhere
in the world instead of to cattle. The fatuous belief
ignores two crucial points:

1. Much of the "grain" fed to livestock is not edible
by humans. Corn silage, for example, includes the
entire plant, chopped to bits; the stalks, cobs and
husks are indigestible to humans. A lot of the
true grain is of a quality that humans won't eat.

2. There are already massive, heavily subsidized
surpluses of human edible foodstuffs, in both North
America and Europe. That this food isn't simply
being given to "starving" people in Africa and Asia
ought to tell the "vegans" something.

This second point is really the key one. "vegans" seem
to think that if the livestock feed weren't being fed
to animals, it would simply be given away to "starving"
people. Exactly what is supposed to be the mechanism
for this? North American and European farmers don't
produce food merely to give it away; they expect to be
paid for it. Livestock feed is *bought* from farmers
by feedlot operators and livestock farmers; the grain
farmers expect to be paid by someone if they are to
grow the grain in the first place.

The idiot "vegans" also ignore the fact that in many of
the places in Africa where there are "starving" people,
there is plenty of food available. The problems are
distribution problems, not production problems. Some
of the distribution problems are deliberate actions by
despotic governments and local warlords, who use
starvation as a war tactic against minority groups.
The rest are from government destruction of market
mechanisms.

The problem of world hunger has NOTHING to do with
Americans and Europeans feeding grain to livestock.


Human beings in America: 243 million
Number of people who could be fed with grain and soybeans now eaten by
U.S. livestock: 1.3 billion
Percentage of corn grown in the U.S. eaten by people: 20
Percentage of corn grown in the U.S. eaten by livestock: 80



Perhaps Americans don't wish to live on grain. Does anyone?


Percentage of oats grown in the U.S. eaten by livestock: 95
Percentage of protein waste by cycling grain through livestock: 99
How frequently a child starves to death: every 2 seconds
Pounds of potatoes that can be grown on an ac 20.OOO



Or potato. Which of course are a really bugger to store so populations
that become dependent on potatoes must have good harvests every year. With
really good pesticides and plenty of water I guess this can be done, but
would you want to bet your population on it?


*** Much to my surpise I have discovered that there are certain people
who actually buy into the above.



Of course there are, though not as many as believe in alien abductions.
Still too many though.


My question for those people is if you are under the impression that
the above could be true what is your opinion of CRP?



Now you're expecting them to have some grasp of economics and politics
which they're unlikely to cover until they get to "big school".


For those that don't know CRP is the program where the FSA pays land
owners not to grow crops on their land. Normal contracts are for 10 years
and the land must me planted to grass and left alone. In exchange the land
owner recieves a direct payment that is usually about 150% of the local
going rate for rented farm land. Currently there are millions of acres in
this program in the USA.

Kala Thompson
Farmer
Richland Center, Wi USA



Michael Saunby



  #94 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 05-01-2004, 06:43 PM
Jahnu
 
Posts: n/a
Default No need for farm animals.

On Mon, 05 Jan 2004 15:33:16 GMT, Jonathan Ball
wrote:

Jahnu wrote:


Not me. I just hate atheist meat-heads.


We already knew you were all about hate. Hate is a
defining characteristic of "veganism".


Of course. What'd you expect? You hate the animals and ruin the
environment. Why shouldn't we hate you. But as Christ said, hate not
the sinner but the sin. So the sin is wanton animal slaughter. And for
the umtieth time, I am not a vegan. I am vegetarian.

According to who?


According to the fact you haven't supported your claim.


Is that your belief or do you have something to support that claim
with?

You are not stating facts; you are merely venting your
spleen, letting your ugly hatred run away with you.


Not running away. I am deliberately like that to make a point. I don't
expect you to get it, but maybe somebody else will.

-jahnu
www.krishna.com
www.iskcon.org
  #95 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 05-01-2004, 06:43 PM
Benfez
 
Posts: n/a
Default No need for farm animals.

Strooth Jahnu, I know they brainwash folks at Krishna concentration camps,
but they've really done a number on you.
Did you forget about all the peace and love, my sweet lord and all that
garbage. Go back to your books instead of spouting your hate and
intollerance.

"Jahnu" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 20:09:43 GMT, Jonathan Ball
wrote:

Jahnu wrote:


Constitution? You forget I am from Europe. I couldn't care less about
your constitution.


Irrelevant, and truly a stupid, ****witted dodge. The
point is that stupid irrational "vegans" want to
overthrow the legitimate, lawful, constitutional
governments wherever they are, in order to impose their
benighted values on others.


Not me. I just hate atheist meat-heads.

Anyone who supports the mass slaughter of animals in the modern
consumer culture must be completely devoid of any empathy towards
other living entities.


False. Repeating it, and using more words to do so,
will not make it true. Your claim is false.


According to who?

No, you are not stating facts. You are venting your
spleen; nothing more.


I am merely stating facts, that's all. And they don't become less
facts by you denying it.

Yes, it is. It is a rational observation of you and
your social milieu.


hahaha, says someone who grew up in a Mickey Mouse culture and elected
a retard for president.

Once again, just to hammer home the point:



HOW TO WIN AN ARGUMENT WITH A MEAT EATER

The New York Times, Tuesday, June 20, 1989



The Hunger Argument

Number of people worldwide who will die of starvation this year: 60
million.

Number of people who could be adequately fed with the grain saved if
Americans reduced their intake of meat by 10 perc.: 60 million

Human beings in America: 243 million

Number of people who could be fed with grain and soybeans now eaten by
U.S. livestock: 1.3 billion

Percentage of corn grown in the U.S. eaten by people: 20

Percentage of corn grown in the U.S. eaten by livestock: 80

Percentage of oats grown in the U.S. eaten by livestock: 95

Percentage of protein waste by cycling grain through livestock: 99

How frequently a child starves to death: every 2 seconds

Pounds of potatoes that can be grown on an ac 20.OOO

Pounds of beef produced on an ac 165

Percentage of U.S. farmland devoted to beef production: 56

Pounds of grain and soybeans needed to produce a pound of beef: 16



The Environmental Argument

Cause of global warming: greenhouse effect

Primary cause of greenhouse effect: carbon dioxide emissions from
fossil fuels.

Fossil fuels needed to produce a meat-centered diet vs. a meat-free
diet: 50 times more

Percentage of U.S. topsoil lost to date: 75

Percentage of U.S. topsoil loss directly related to livestock raising:
85

Number of acres of U.S. forest cleared for cropland to produce
meat-centered diet: 260 million

Amount of meat U.S. imports annually from Costa Rica, El Salvador,
Guatemala, Honduras and Panama: 200 million pounds

Average per capita meat consumption in Costa Rica, El Salvador,
Guatemala, Honduras and Panama: less than eaten by average U.S.
housecat.

Area of tropical rainforest consumed in every 1/4 pound hamburger: 55
sq.ft.

Current rate of species extinction due to destruction of tropical
rainforests for meat grazing and other uses: 1.000 per year



The Cancer Argument

Increased risk of breast cancer for women who eat meat 4 times a week
vs. less than once a week: 4 times

For women who eat eggs daily vs. less than once a week: 3 times

Increased risk of fatal ovarian cancer for women who eat eggs 3 or
more times a week vs. less than once a week: 3 times

Increased risk of fatal prostate cancer for men who eat meat daily vs.
sparingly or not at all: 3.6 times



The Natural Resources Argument

Use of more than half of all water used for all purposes in the U.S.:
livestock portion.

Amount of water used in production of the average steer: sufficient to
float a destroyer.

Gallons to produce a pound of wheat: 25

Gallons to produce a pound of meat: 2.500

Cost of common hamburger if water used by meat industry was not
subsidized by the U.S. taxpayer: 35 dollars a pound

Current cost of pound of protein from beefsteak, if water was no
longer subsidized: 89 dollars

Years the world's known oil reserves would last if every human ate a
meat-centered diet: 13

Years they would last if human beings no longer ate meat: 260

Barrels of oil imported into U.S. daily: 6.8 million

Percentage of fossil fuel returned as food energy by most efficient
factory farming of meat: 34.5

Percentage returned from least efficient plant food: 32.8

Percentage of raw materials consumed by U.S. to produce present
meat-centered diet: 33



The Cholesterol Argument

Number of U.S. medical schools: 125

Number requiring a course in nutrition: 30

Nutrition training received by average U.S. physician during four
years in medical school: 25 hours

Most common cause of death in U.S.: heart attack

How frequently a heart attack kills in U.S.: every 45 seconds

Average U.S. man's risk of death from heart attack: 50 perc.

Risk for average U.S. man who avoids the meat-centered diet: 15 perc.

Meat industry claims you should not be concerned about your blood
cholesterol if it is: normal

Your risk of dying of a disease caused by clogged arteries if your
blood cholesterol is ?normal?: over 50 perc.



The Antibiotic Argument

Percentage of U.S. antibiotics fed to livestock: 55

Percentage of staphylococci infections resistant to penicillin in
1960: 13

Percentage resistant in 1988: 91

Response of European Economic Community to routine feeding of
antibiotics to livestock: ban

Response of U.S. meat and pharmaceutical industries to routine feeding
of antibiotics to livestock: full and complete support


The Pesticide Argument

Percentage of pesticide residues in the U.S. diet supplied by grains:
1

Percentage of pesticide residues in the U.S. diet supplied by fruits:
4

Percentage of pesticide residues in the U.S. diet suppl. by dairy
products: 23

Percentage of pesticide residues in the U.S. diet supplied by meat: 55

Pesticide contamination of breast milk from meat-eating mothers vs.
non meat-eating: 35 times higher

What USDA tells us: meat is inspected

Percentage of slaughtered animals inspected for residues of toxin
chemicals including dioxin and DDT: less than 0.00004



The Ethical Argument

Number of animals killed for meat per hour in U.S.: 500.000

Occupation with highest turnover rate in U.S.: slaughterhouse worker

Occupation with highest rate of on-the-job injury in
U.S:slaughterhouse worker

Cost to render animal unconscious with captive bolt pistol before
slaughter.: 1 cent

Reason given by meat industry for non using that pistol: too expensive



The Survival Argument

Athlete to win Ironman Triathlon more than twice: Dave Scott (6 time
winner) Food choices of Dave Scott: Vegetarian

Largest meat eater than ever lived: Tyrannosaurus Rex

Last sighting of Tyrannosaurus Rex: 100.000.000 B.C.


Famous pop stars - vegetarians:
-------------------------------
Candice Bergen, David Bowie, Paul Mc Cartney, Darryl Hannah, Janet
Jackson, k.d.lang, Sting

'I am a great eater of beef, and I believe that does harm to my wit.'
--William Shakespeare "Twelfth Night," Act I, Scene 3

www.krishna.com
www.iskcon.org





  #96 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 05-01-2004, 06:44 PM
Jahnu
 
Posts: n/a
Default No need for farm animals.

On Mon, 5 Jan 2004 08:55:07 -0600, "Russ Thompson"
wrote:

The Hunger Argument

Number of people worldwide who will die of starvation this year: 60
million.
Number of people who could be adequately fed with the grain saved if
Americans reduced their intake of meat by 10 perc.: 60 million
Human beings in America: 243 million
Number of people who could be fed with grain and soybeans now eaten by
U.S. livestock: 1.3 billion
Percentage of corn grown in the U.S. eaten by people: 20
Percentage of corn grown in the U.S. eaten by livestock: 80
Percentage of oats grown in the U.S. eaten by livestock: 95
Percentage of protein waste by cycling grain through livestock: 99
How frequently a child starves to death: every 2 seconds
Pounds of potatoes that can be grown on an ac 20.OOO


*** Much to my surpise I have discovered that there are certain people who
actually buy into the above.


Much to my surprise I have discovered that there are certain people
who actually willfully choose to live in denial of the above.

My question for those people is if you are under the impression that
the above could be true what is your opinion of CRP?


It couldn't be very high, could it?

For those that don't know CRP is the program where the FSA pays land
owners not to grow crops on their land. Normal contracts are for 10 years
and the land must me planted to grass and left alone. In exchange the land
owner recieves a direct payment that is usually about 150% of the local
going rate for rented farm land. Currently there are millions of acres in
this program in the USA.


Can you prove that? Or do you really want us to just take your word
for it?




www.krishna.com
www.iskcon.org
  #97 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 05-01-2004, 07:03 PM
Jonathan Ball
 
Posts: n/a
Default No need for farm animals.

Jahnu wrote:

On Mon, 05 Jan 2004 15:33:16 GMT, Jonathan Ball
wrote:


Jahnu wrote:



Not me. I just hate atheist meat-heads.


We already knew you were all about hate. Hate is a
defining characteristic of "veganism".



Of course.


Yes, of course: you hate those who disagree with you.

What'd you expect?


Exactly what you demonstrated.

You hate the animals


False.

and ruin the environment.


False.

Why shouldn't we hate you. But as Christ said, hate not
the sinner but the sin.


So, you're a lesser person for not being able to follow
that dictum. You hate meat eaters, not the meat eating.

So the sin is wanton animal slaughter.


It is not a sin. You are an idiot for thinking it is.

YOU cause wanton animal slaughter, too. Do you hate
yourself?

And for
the umtieth time, I am not a vegan. I am vegetarian.


Your "vegetarianism" is of the so-called "ethical"
vegetarian variety. Philosophically, there isn't a
pfennig's worth of difference between you and "vegans".
You're all full of hate, and you're all the most
brazen liars.



According to who?


According to the fact you haven't supported your claim.



Is that your belief or do you have something to support that claim
with?


I have the observation that you haven't supported your
claim. You have made the claim, without support, and
when asked to support it, you have merely restated the
claim.

The claim is without support. It is merely your
opinion, your hate-filled opinion, and you appear to me
to be ignorant, in addition to full of hate.



You are not stating facts; you are merely venting your
spleen, letting your ugly hatred run away with you.



Not running away.


Running away. You are a coward.

I am deliberately like that to make a point.


You are deliberately like that because you are a
hate-filled coward.

  #98 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 05-01-2004, 07:04 PM
Jonathan Ball
 
Posts: n/a
Default No need for farm animals.

Jahnu wrote:

On Mon, 5 Jan 2004 08:55:07 -0600, "Russ Thompson"
wrote:


The Hunger Argument

Number of people worldwide who will die of starvation this year: 60
million.
Number of people who could be adequately fed with the grain saved if
Americans reduced their intake of meat by 10 perc.: 60 million
Human beings in America: 243 million
Number of people who could be fed with grain and soybeans now eaten by
U.S. livestock: 1.3 billion
Percentage of corn grown in the U.S. eaten by people: 20
Percentage of corn grown in the U.S. eaten by livestock: 80
Percentage of oats grown in the U.S. eaten by livestock: 95
Percentage of protein waste by cycling grain through livestock: 99
How frequently a child starves to death: every 2 seconds
Pounds of potatoes that can be grown on an ac 20.OOO


*** Much to my surpise I have discovered that there are certain people who
actually buy into the above.



Much to my surprise I have discovered that there are certain people
who actually willfully choose to live in denial of the above.


"The above" is bullshit; unadulterated bullshit. The
problem of world hunger has nothing to do with feeding
grain to livestock.

  #99 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 05-01-2004, 07:09 PM
Jonathan Ball
 
Posts: n/a
Default No need for farm animals.

Benfez wrote:

Strooth Jahnu, I know they brainwash folks at Krishna concentration camps,
but they've really done a number on you.
Did you forget about all the peace and love, my sweet lord and all that
garbage. Go back to your books instead of spouting your hate and
intollerance.


Exactly. So-called "ethical" vegetarians are ALWAYS
full of this kind of irrational hatred. You ALWAYS
find that when you find people like them for whom
morality is based on a comparison with others, rather
than just doing what is right.


"Jahnu" wrote in message
...

On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 20:09:43 GMT, Jonathan Ball
wrote:


Jahnu wrote:


Constitution? You forget I am from Europe. I couldn't care less about
your constitution.

Irrelevant, and truly a stupid, ****witted dodge. The
point is that stupid irrational "vegans" want to
overthrow the legitimate, lawful, constitutional
governments wherever they are, in order to impose their
benighted values on others.


Not me. I just hate atheist meat-heads.


Anyone who supports the mass slaughter of animals in the modern
consumer culture must be completely devoid of any empathy towards
other living entities.

False. Repeating it, and using more words to do so,
will not make it true. Your claim is false.


According to who?


No, you are not stating facts. You are venting your
spleen; nothing more.


I am merely stating facts, that's all. And they don't become less
facts by you denying it.


Yes, it is. It is a rational observation of you and
your social milieu.


hahaha, says someone who grew up in a Mickey Mouse culture and elected
a retard for president.

Once again, just to hammer home the point:



HOW TO WIN AN ARGUMENT WITH A MEAT EATER

The New York Times, Tuesday, June 20, 1989



The Hunger Argument

Number of people worldwide who will die of starvation this year: 60
million.

Number of people who could be adequately fed with the grain saved if
Americans reduced their intake of meat by 10 perc.: 60 million

Human beings in America: 243 million

Number of people who could be fed with grain and soybeans now eaten by
U.S. livestock: 1.3 billion

Percentage of corn grown in the U.S. eaten by people: 20

Percentage of corn grown in the U.S. eaten by livestock: 80

Percentage of oats grown in the U.S. eaten by livestock: 95

Percentage of protein waste by cycling grain through livestock: 99

How frequently a child starves to death: every 2 seconds

Pounds of potatoes that can be grown on an ac 20.OOO

Pounds of beef produced on an ac 165

Percentage of U.S. farmland devoted to beef production: 56

Pounds of grain and soybeans needed to produce a pound of beef: 16



The Environmental Argument

Cause of global warming: greenhouse effect

Primary cause of greenhouse effect: carbon dioxide emissions from
fossil fuels.

Fossil fuels needed to produce a meat-centered diet vs. a meat-free
diet: 50 times more

Percentage of U.S. topsoil lost to date: 75

Percentage of U.S. topsoil loss directly related to livestock raising:
85

Number of acres of U.S. forest cleared for cropland to produce
meat-centered diet: 260 million

Amount of meat U.S. imports annually from Costa Rica, El Salvador,
Guatemala, Honduras and Panama: 200 million pounds

Average per capita meat consumption in Costa Rica, El Salvador,
Guatemala, Honduras and Panama: less than eaten by average U.S.
housecat.

Area of tropical rainforest consumed in every 1/4 pound hamburger: 55
sq.ft.

Current rate of species extinction due to destruction of tropical
rainforests for meat grazing and other uses: 1.000 per year



The Cancer Argument

Increased risk of breast cancer for women who eat meat 4 times a week
vs. less than once a week: 4 times

For women who eat eggs daily vs. less than once a week: 3 times

Increased risk of fatal ovarian cancer for women who eat eggs 3 or
more times a week vs. less than once a week: 3 times

Increased risk of fatal prostate cancer for men who eat meat daily vs.
sparingly or not at all: 3.6 times



The Natural Resources Argument

Use of more than half of all water used for all purposes in the U.S.:
livestock portion.

Amount of water used in production of the average steer: sufficient to
float a destroyer.

Gallons to produce a pound of wheat: 25

Gallons to produce a pound of meat: 2.500

Cost of common hamburger if water used by meat industry was not
subsidized by the U.S. taxpayer: 35 dollars a pound

Current cost of pound of protein from beefsteak, if water was no
longer subsidized: 89 dollars

Years the world's known oil reserves would last if every human ate a
meat-centered diet: 13

Years they would last if human beings no longer ate meat: 260

Barrels of oil imported into U.S. daily: 6.8 million

Percentage of fossil fuel returned as food energy by most efficient
factory farming of meat: 34.5

Percentage returned from least efficient plant food: 32.8

Percentage of raw materials consumed by U.S. to produce present
meat-centered diet: 33



The Cholesterol Argument

Number of U.S. medical schools: 125

Number requiring a course in nutrition: 30

Nutrition training received by average U.S. physician during four
years in medical school: 25 hours

Most common cause of death in U.S.: heart attack

How frequently a heart attack kills in U.S.: every 45 seconds

Average U.S. man's risk of death from heart attack: 50 perc.

Risk for average U.S. man who avoids the meat-centered diet: 15 perc.

Meat industry claims you should not be concerned about your blood
cholesterol if it is: normal

Your risk of dying of a disease caused by clogged arteries if your
blood cholesterol is ?normal?: over 50 perc.



The Antibiotic Argument

Percentage of U.S. antibiotics fed to livestock: 55

Percentage of staphylococci infections resistant to penicillin in
1960: 13

Percentage resistant in 1988: 91

Response of European Economic Community to routine feeding of
antibiotics to livestock: ban

Response of U.S. meat and pharmaceutical industries to routine feeding
of antibiotics to livestock: full and complete support


The Pesticide Argument

Percentage of pesticide residues in the U.S. diet supplied by grains:
1

Percentage of pesticide residues in the U.S. diet supplied by fruits:
4

Percentage of pesticide residues in the U.S. diet suppl. by dairy
products: 23

Percentage of pesticide residues in the U.S. diet supplied by meat: 55

Pesticide contamination of breast milk from meat-eating mothers vs.
non meat-eating: 35 times higher

What USDA tells us: meat is inspected

Percentage of slaughtered animals inspected for residues of toxin
chemicals including dioxin and DDT: less than 0.00004



The Ethical Argument

Number of animals killed for meat per hour in U.S.: 500.000

Occupation with highest turnover rate in U.S.: slaughterhouse worker

Occupation with highest rate of on-the-job injury in
U.S:slaughterhouse worker

Cost to render animal unconscious with captive bolt pistol before
slaughter.: 1 cent

Reason given by meat industry for non using that pistol: too expensive



The Survival Argument

Athlete to win Ironman Triathlon more than twice: Dave Scott (6 time
winner) Food choices of Dave Scott: Vegetarian

Largest meat eater than ever lived: Tyrannosaurus Rex

Last sighting of Tyrannosaurus Rex: 100.000.000 B.C.


Famous pop stars - vegetarians:
-------------------------------
Candice Bergen, David Bowie, Paul Mc Cartney, Darryl Hannah, Janet
Jackson, k.d.lang, Sting

'I am a great eater of beef, and I believe that does harm to my wit.'
--William Shakespeare "Twelfth Night," Act I, Scene 3

www.krishna.com
www.iskcon.org





  #100 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 05-01-2004, 07:35 PM
Jahnu
 
Posts: n/a
Default No need for farm animals.

On Mon, 05 Jan 2004 18:03:45 GMT, Jonathan Ball
wrote:

Jahnu wrote:

On Mon, 05 Jan 2004 15:33:16 GMT, Jonathan Ball
wrote:


Jahnu wrote:



Not me. I just hate atheist meat-heads.

We already knew you were all about hate. Hate is a
defining characteristic of "veganism".



Of course.


Yes, of course: you hate those who disagree with you.


Not at all. I hate those who don't care about other living entities
and ruin nature for profit and sense gratification.

So, you're a lesser person for not being able to follow
that dictum. You hate meat eaters, not the meat eating.


I hate meat eaters because they see highly sensitive living entities
as meat racks and keep them for slaughter. I hate them because of
their lack of empathy and focus on economy and profit instead of what
is right and sensible and merciful towards others.

It is not a sin. You are an idiot for thinking it is.


It is completely sinful to slaughter animals like it is done in the
modern coca cola culture, and everyone is going to suffer the horrible
consequences.

YOU cause wanton animal slaughter, too. Do you hate
yourself?


How do I cause wanton animal slaughter? Would you like to explain
yourself?

Your "vegetarianism" is of the so-called "ethical"
vegetarian variety. Philosophically, there isn't a
pfennig's worth of difference between you and "vegans".
You're all full of hate, and you're all the most
brazen liars.


I think it is quite clear who is full of hate and venom and who hates
the truth here. You are completely shameless in your ignorance.




www.krishna.com
www.iskcon.org


  #101 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 05-01-2004, 07:35 PM
Jahnu
 
Posts: n/a
Default No need for farm animals.

On Mon, 5 Jan 2004 17:43:45 -0000, "Benfez"
wrote:

Strooth Jahnu, I know they brainwash folks at Krishna concentration camps,
but they've really done a number on you.
Did you forget about all the peace and love, my sweet lord and all that
garbage. Go back to your books instead of spouting your hate and
intollerance.


YOU are spouting hate and intolerance and countless cruelties towards
other living entities. I am speaking the truth and anyone who is
truthful will accept it.

I have presented arguments and scientific facts in favor of my
position. You have presented nothing except being cantankerous and
obnoxiously and blindly denying all the facts.

Admit defeat or go jump in a lake, moron.


www.krishna.com
www.iskcon.org
  #102 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 05-01-2004, 07:35 PM
Jahnu
 
Posts: n/a
Default No need for farm animals.

On Mon, 05 Jan 2004 18:04:39 GMT, Jonathan Ball
wrote:

"The above" is bullshit; unadulterated bullshit. The
problem of world hunger has nothing to do with feeding
grain to livestock.


Of course it has. Keeping animals for slaughter is grossly sinful.


www.krishna.com
www.iskcon.org
  #103 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 05-01-2004, 07:40 PM
Russ Thompson
 
Posts: n/a
Default No need for farm animals.

Or potato. Which of course are a really bugger to store so populations
that become dependent on potatoes must have good harvests every year.

With
really good pesticides and plenty of water I guess this can be done, but
would you want to bet your population on it?


*** Not to mention that land that can grow good crops of grain is not
suitable for growing potatos.

Kala




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  #104 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 05-01-2004, 07:46 PM
Russ Thompson
 
Posts: n/a
Default No need for farm animals.

Much to my surprise I have discovered that there are certain people
who actually willfully choose to live in denial of the above.


*** I feel sorry for you. People must take advantage of you all the time.

It couldn't be very high, could it?


*** It could be.

For those that don't know CRP is the program where the FSA pays

land
owners not to grow crops on their land. Normal contracts are for 10 years
and the land must me planted to grass and left alone. In exchange the

land
owner recieves a direct payment that is usually about 150% of the local
going rate for rented farm land. Currently there are millions of acres in
this program in the USA.


Can you prove that? Or do you really want us to just take your word
for it?


*** Yes I can prove it. However I have better things to do that look up info
on government programs that you could easily find everything you wanted to
know with a simple web search.
Do you doubt that the US government actually has the CRP?

Kala




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  #105 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 05-01-2004, 07:47 PM
Russ Thompson
 
Posts: n/a
Default No need for farm animals.

I agree. That's why I point it out to you.
www.krishna.com
www.iskcon.org



Why are you so mean?

Kala




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