Vegan (alt.food.vegan) This newsgroup exists to share ideas and issues of concern among vegans. We are always happy to share our recipes- perhaps especially with omnivores who are simply curious- or even better, accomodating a vegan guest for a meal!

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  #31 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 03-01-2004, 10:12 AM
Jahnu
 
Posts: n/a
Default No need for farm animals.

On Fri, 2 Jan 2004 07:25:00 -0600, "Russ Thompson"
wrote:

You should be careful posting things like this. There are well
meaning but uninformed and ignorant people who will read it and think that
it's true.


It IS true. Only meatheads and idiots who have made a business out of
killing animals will object to it. The meat industry is the second
largest business in the world after weapons production. There is a lot
of people who don't like to hear the truth about eating and producing
meat.


I cite from the introduction to 'The Hare Krishna Book
of Vegetarian Cooking.'

"Can a vegetarian diet improve or restore health? Can it prevent
certain diseases?

Advocates of vegetarianism have said yes for many years, although they
didin't have much support from modern science until recently. Now,
medical researchers have discovered evidence of a link between
meat-eating and such killers as heart disease and cancer, so they are
giving vegetarianism another look.

Since the 1960s, scientists have suspected that a meat based diet is
somehow related to the development of arteriosclerosis and heart
disease. As early as 1961, the Journal of the American Medical
Association said: 'Ninety to ninety-seven percent of heart diseases
can be prevented by a vegetarian diet.'1 Since that time, several
well-organized studies have scientifically shown that after tobacco
and alcohol, the consumption of meat is the greatest single cause pf
mortality in Western Europe, The USA, Australia, and other affluent
areas of the world.2

The human body is unable to deal with excessive amounts of animal fat
and cholesterol.3 A poll of 214 scientists doing research on
arteriosclerosis in 23 countries showed almost total agreement that
there is a link between diet, serum cholesterol levels, and heart
disease.4 When a person eats more cholesterol than the body needs (as
he usual does with a meat-centered diet), the excess cholesterol
gradually becomes a problem. It accumulates on the inner walls of the
arteries, constricts the flow of blood to the heart, and can lead to
high blood preassure, heart diseases, and strokes.

On the other hand, scientists at the University of Milan and Maggiore
Hospital have shown that vegetable protein may act to keep cholesterol
levels low. In a report to the British medical journal 'The Lancet'
D.C.R. Sirtori concluded that people with the type of high cholesterol
associated with heart disease 'may benefit from a diet in which
protein comes only from vegetables.'5

What about cancer? Research over the past twenty years strongly
suggests a link between meat-eating and cancer of the colon, rectum,
breast, and uterus. These types of cancer are rare among those who eat
little or no meat, such as the Seventh-Day Adventists, Japanese, and
Indians, but are prevalent among meat-eating populations.6

Another article in 'The Lancet' reported, 'People living in the areas
with a high recorded incidence of carcinoma of the colon tend to live
on diets containing large amounts of fat and animal protein; whereas
those who live in areas with a low incidence live on largely
vegetarian diets with little fat or animal matter.'7

Rollo Russell, in his 'Notes on the Causation of Cancer', says, 'I
have found of 25 nations eating mostly flesh, 19 had a high cancer
rate and only one had a low rate, and that of 35 nations eating little
or no flesh, none had a high rate.'8

Why do meat-eaters seem more prone to these diseases? One reason given
by biologists and nutritionists is that man's intestinal tract is
simply not suited for digesting meat. Flesh-eating animals have short
intestinal tracts (3 times the length of the animal's body), to
quickly excrete rapidly decaying toxin-producing meat from the system.
Since plant foods decay more slowly than meat, plant-eaters have
intestines at least six times the length of the body. Man has the long
intestinal tract of a herbivore, so if he eats meat, toxins can
overload kidneys and lead to gout, arthritis, rheumatism, and even
cancer.

And then there are chemical added to meat. As soon as an animal is
slaughtered its flesh begins to putrefy, and after several days it
turns a sickly gray-green. The meat industry masks this discoloration
by adding nitrites, nitrates, and other preservatives to give the meat
a bright red color. But research has shown many of these preservatives
to be carcinogenic.9

And what makes the problem worse is the massive amounts of chemicals
fed to livestock. Gary and Steven Null, in their book, 'Poisons in
your Body', show us something that ought to make anyone think twice
before buying another steak or ham. 'The animals are kept alive and
fattened by continuous administration of tranquilizers, hormones,
antibiotics, and 2.700 other drugs. The process starts even before
birth and continues long after death. Although these drugs will still
be present in the meat when you eat it, the law does not require that
they be listed on the package.'10

Because of findings like this, the American National Academy of
Sciences reported in 1983 that, 'people may be able to prevent many
common types of cancer by eating less fatty meats and more vegetables
and grains.'11

But wait a minute! Weren't we human beings designed to be meat-eaters?
Don't we need animal protein? The answer to both these questions is
no. Although some historians and anthropologists say that man is
historically omnivorous, our anatomical equipment - teeth, jaws, and
digestive system - favors a fleshless diet. The American Dietetic
Association notes that 'most of mankind for most of human history has
lived on vegetarian or near-vegetarian diets.'

And much of the world still lives that way. Even in most
industrialized countries the love affair with meat is less than a
hundred years old. It started with the refrigerator, car, and the 20th
century consumer society.

But even in the 20th century, man's body hasn't adapted to eating
meat. The prominent Swedish scientist Karl von Linne states, 'Man's
structure, external and internal, compared with that of the other
animals, shows that fruit and succulent vegetables constitute his
natural food.'

(The chart I have posted several times compare the anatomy of man with
that of carnivorous and herbivorous animals.)

As for the protein question, Dr.Paavo Airola, a leading authority on
nutrition and natural biology, has this to say: 'The official daily
recommendation for protein has gone down from the 150 grams
recommended twenty years ago to only 45 grams today. Why? Because
reliable worldwide research has shown that we do not need so much
protein, that the actual daily need is only 30 to 45 grams. Protein
consumed in excess of the actual daily need is not only wasted, but
actually causes serious harm to the body and is even causatively
related to such killer diseases as cancer and heart diesase. In order
to obtain 45 grams of protein a day from your diet, you do not have to
eat meat; you can get it from a 100% vegetarian diet of a variety of
grains, lentils, nuts, vegetables, and fruits.'12

Dairy products, grains, beans, and nuts are all concentrated sources
of protein. Cheese, peanuts, and lentils, for instance, contain more
protein per ounce than hamburger, pork, or porter-house steak.

Still nutritians thought until recently that only meat, fish, eggs,
and milk products had complete proteins (containing the 8 amino acids
not produced in the body), and that all vegetable proteins were
incomplete (lacking one or more of these amino acids). But research at
the Karolinska Institute in Sweden and the Max Planck Institute in
Germany has shown that most vegetables, fruits, seeds, nuts, and
grains are excellent sources of complete proteins.

In fact, their proteins are easier to assimilate than those of meat -
and they don't bring with them any toxins. It's nearly impossible to
lack protein if you eat enough natural unrefined food. Remember, the
vegetable kingdom is the real source of ALL protein. Vegetarians
simply eat it 'direct' instead of getting it second-hand from the
vegetarian animals."


References:

Can be had upon request.



www.krishna.com
www.iskcon.org

  #32 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 03-01-2004, 10:12 AM
Jahnu
 
Posts: n/a
Default No need for farm animals.

On Fri, 02 Jan 2004 20:17:42 GMT, "Rubystars"
wrote:


"Jahnu" wrote in message
snip

Look Jahnu, I'm not saying there wouldn't be more *food* but forcing people
to go on a vegan diet who don't know how to do so would cause malnutrition
and at least some deaths from starvation.


I am not an advocate of a vegan diet. I suggest a vegetarian diet,
which includes milk products. Nobody will die from starvation by
becoming a vegetarian. They will rather improve their mental and
physical health significantly by abstaining from meat. On the other
hand a lot of people die before their time from diseases related to
meat-eating.

-jahnu
www.krishna.com
www.iskcon.org
  #33 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 03-01-2004, 10:12 AM
Jahnu
 
Posts: n/a
Default No need for farm animals.

On Fri, 02 Jan 2004 21:02:40 GMT, Jonathan Ball
wrote:

Russ Thompson wrote:

Look Jahnu, I'm not saying there wouldn't be more *food* but forcing people
to go on a vegan diet who don't know how to do so would cause malnutrition
and at least some deaths from starvation.

-Rubystars



*** Not to mention that a little thing like the US Constitution would get in
the way of enforcment.


That's but a minor impediment to the irrational
religious fanatics known as "animal rights activists".


It's funny how meat heads always go balistic and have to resort to all
kinds of imbecile and moronic responses when the subject of
vegetarianism comes up. I wonder why that is. I guess they have
neither empathy for other living entities nor the brains to understand
that killing millions and billions of highly sensitive animals every
year in automated slaughter houses is one of the key factors
contributing to the destruction of our society.


www.krishna.com
www.iskcon.org
  #34 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 03-01-2004, 12:31 PM
Russ Thompson
 
Posts: n/a
Default No need for farm animals.


It IS true. Only meatheads and idiots who have made a business out of
killing animals will object to it.


*** See the "uninformed and ignorant" part of my message. I retract the
"well meaning".
The message I replied to makes claims that are demonstratably false.

Kala Thompson
Farmer
Richland Center, Wi




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  #35 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 03-01-2004, 03:59 PM
Jonathan Ball
 
Posts: n/a
Default No need for farm animals.

Jahnu wrote:

On Fri, 02 Jan 2004 21:02:40 GMT, Jonathan Ball
wrote:


Russ Thompson wrote:


Look Jahnu, I'm not saying there wouldn't be more *food* but forcing people
to go on a vegan diet who don't know how to do so would cause malnutrition
and at least some deaths from starvation.

-Rubystars


*** Not to mention that a little thing like the US Constitution would get in
the way of enforcment.


That's but a minor impediment to the irrational
religious fanatics known as "animal rights activists".



It's funny how meat heads


Oh, *there* is a calm, rational, discussion-advancing
expression.

always go balistic


I didn't. I described, rather, how so-called "ethical"
vegetarians have no regard for the constitution, in
their fanatical wish to impose their views on others.

and have to resort to all
kinds of imbecile and moronic responses when the subject of
vegetarianism comes up. I wonder why that is.


It isn't. You have invented it in your sick, sordid
imagination.

I guess they have
neither empathy for other living entities


False.

nor the brains to understand
that killing millions and billions of highly sensitive animals every
year in automated slaughter houses is one of the key factors
contributing to the destruction of our society.


It isn't. You are an irrational, overwrought crackpot.
You exist, barely, at the fringe of civilized
society. The truly strange thing is, you voluntarily
went out onto the fringe.



  #36 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 03-01-2004, 05:49 PM
rick etter
 
Posts: n/a
Default No need for farm animals.


"Jahnu" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 2 Jan 2004 06:15:58 -0500, "rick etter"
wrote:


"Jahnu" wrote in message


HOW TO WIN AN ARGUMENT WITH A MEAT EATER

===============
Your 'argument' is lost from the beginning, loser...


Hey meathead, you wouldn't know a sound argument if it fell on your
head in broad daylight.
==============

Yes, I would, and yours isn't one of them...

You start out with a bunch of strawmen, all of which get blown away in the
winds of truth.
Hardly the stuff of a winner, eh killer?



www.krishna.com
www.iskcon.org



  #37 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 03-01-2004, 05:50 PM
rick etter
 
Posts: n/a
Default No need for farm animals.


"Jahnu" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 2 Jan 2004 07:25:00 -0600, "Russ Thompson"
wrote:

You should be careful posting things like this. There are well
meaning but uninformed and ignorant people who will read it and think

that
it's true.


It IS true. Only meatheads and idiots who have made a business out of
killing animals will object to it. The meat industry is the second
largest business in the world after weapons production. There is a lot
of people who don't like to hear the truth about eating and producing
meat.
===============

LOL And you are one of them, killer.



snippage of more AR/vegan BS, lys and delusions. Too bad that's all you've
got, killer.


  #38 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 03-01-2004, 05:51 PM
rick etter
 
Posts: n/a
Default No need for farm animals.


"Jahnu" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 02 Jan 2004 20:17:42 GMT, "Rubystars"
wrote:


"Jahnu" wrote in message
snip

Look Jahnu, I'm not saying there wouldn't be more *food* but forcing

people
to go on a vegan diet who don't know how to do so would cause

malnutrition
and at least some deaths from starvation.


I am not an advocate of a vegan diet. I suggest a vegetarian diet,
which includes milk products. Nobody will die from starvation by
becoming a vegetarian. They will rather improve their mental and
physical health significantly by abstaining from meat. On the other
hand a lot of people die before their time from diseases related to
meat-eating.

===============
Another ly. Too bad that's all you have, killer.



  #39 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 03-01-2004, 05:53 PM
rick etter
 
Posts: n/a
Default No need for farm animals.


"Jahnu" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 02 Jan 2004 21:02:40 GMT, Jonathan Ball
wrote:

Russ Thompson wrote:

Look Jahnu, I'm not saying there wouldn't be more *food* but forcing

people
to go on a vegan diet who don't know how to do so would cause

malnutrition
and at least some deaths from starvation.

-Rubystars


*** Not to mention that a little thing like the US Constitution would

get in
the way of enforcment.


That's but a minor impediment to the irrational
religious fanatics known as "animal rights activists".


It's funny how meat heads always go balistic and have to resort to all
kinds of imbecile and moronic responses when the subject of
vegetarianism comes up. I wonder why that is. I guess they have
neither empathy for other living entities nor the brains to understand
that killing millions and billions of highly sensitive animals every
year in automated slaughter houses is one of the key factors
contributing to the destruction of our society.

=================
Hey, what a coincidenec, you don't have any empathy for animals eitehr.
What a hoot! You really believe you lys about eating veggies not killing
animals? ow about posting your inane stupidity to usenet? Is that
cruelty-free too? You really are dumb as a box of rocks, killer.




www.krishna.com
www.iskcon.org



  #40 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 03-01-2004, 06:23 PM
Rubystars
 
Posts: n/a
Default No need for farm animals.


"Jahnu" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 02 Jan 2004 20:17:42 GMT, "Rubystars"
wrote:


"Jahnu" wrote in message
snip

Look Jahnu, I'm not saying there wouldn't be more *food* but forcing

people
to go on a vegan diet who don't know how to do so would cause

malnutrition
and at least some deaths from starvation.


I am not an advocate of a vegan diet. I suggest a vegetarian diet,
which includes milk products.


Then you support keeping farm animals.
snip

-Rubystars




  #41 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 03-01-2004, 06:34 PM
Allyb
 
Posts: n/a
Default No need for farm animals.

Jahnu, don't waste your time arguing with them, it'll just give you stress,
and give them too much enjoyment. Actually Rick and Jonathon, I'm curious
why you're so interested in arguing with the posters here. People don't
typically hang out with those they vehemently disagree with. Is it just
something you do for entertainment; are you members of the beef council
looking for converts; is it a mission from God? Do vegetarians come to your
"eat meat a lot" newsgroup and pounce on you, so you do this for
retribution? Maybe it's a gang thing. I guess that would make you the
bloods.... (ha ha)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jahnu"
Newsgroups:
alt.philosophy,talk.philosophy.misc,talk.politics. animals,misc.rural,uk.busi
ness.agriculture,alt.food.vegan
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2004 5:12 AM
Subject: No need for farm animals.


On Fri, 02 Jan 2004 20:17:42 GMT, "Rubystars"
wrote:


"Jahnu" wrote in message
snip

Look Jahnu, I'm not saying there wouldn't be more *food* but forcing

people
to go on a vegan diet who don't know how to do so would cause

malnutrition
and at least some deaths from starvation.


I am not an advocate of a vegan diet. I suggest a vegetarian diet,
which includes milk products. Nobody will die from starvation by
becoming a vegetarian. They will rather improve their mental and
physical health significantly by abstaining from meat. On the other
hand a lot of people die before their time from diseases related to
meat-eating.

-jahnu
www.krishna.com
www.iskcon.org


"rick etter" wrote in message
...

"Jahnu" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 02 Jan 2004 20:17:42 GMT, "Rubystars"
wrote:


"Jahnu" wrote in message
snip

Look Jahnu, I'm not saying there wouldn't be more *food* but forcing

people
to go on a vegan diet who don't know how to do so would cause

malnutrition
and at least some deaths from starvation.


I am not an advocate of a vegan diet. I suggest a vegetarian diet,
which includes milk products. Nobody will die from starvation by
becoming a vegetarian. They will rather improve their mental and
physical health significantly by abstaining from meat. On the other
hand a lot of people die before their time from diseases related to
meat-eating.

===============
Another ly. Too bad that's all you have, killer.





  #42 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 03-01-2004, 06:48 PM
Jonathan Ball
 
Posts: n/a
Default No need for farm animals.

Allyb wrote:

Jahnu, don't waste your time arguing with them, it'll just give you stress,
and give them too much enjoyment. Actually Rick and Jonathon, I'm curious
why you're so interested in arguing with the posters here. People don't
typically hang out with those they vehemently disagree with. Is it just
something you do for entertainment; are you members of the beef council
looking for converts; is it a mission from God?


Why would you possibly care? Anyway, you have lots of
lurid fantasies to keep you satisfied; you can
vacillate among them as you see fit.

  #43 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 03-01-2004, 07:02 PM
Allyb
 
Posts: n/a
Default No need for farm animals.

I care because I think it's really interesting what you do. I'm not nearly
as interested in fantasy as I am about reality. I know you're probably
going to have something biting to say about that since you think you know
the lifestyle I live, but it's the truth. I'm honestly curious about what
motivates you. Maybe I should have been an anthropologist............ I'm
very interested in atypical responses to stimuli. I think it's atypical
that anti-vegans spend so much time in a vegan newsgroup, you piqued my
interest. I'm not a one issue girl ya know.


"Jonathan Ball" wrote in message
link.net...
Allyb wrote:

Jahnu, don't waste your time arguing with them, it'll just give you

stress,
and give them too much enjoyment. Actually Rick and Jonathon, I'm

curious
why you're so interested in arguing with the posters here. People don't
typically hang out with those they vehemently disagree with. Is it just
something you do for entertainment; are you members of the beef council
looking for converts; is it a mission from God?


Why would you possibly care? Anyway, you have lots of
lurid fantasies to keep you satisfied; you can
vacillate among them as you see fit.



  #44 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 03-01-2004, 08:18 PM
rick etter
 
Posts: n/a
Default No need for farm animals.


"Allyb" wrote in message
...
Jahnu, don't waste your time arguing with them, it'll just give you

stress,
and give them too much enjoyment.

====================
The enjoyment of seeing your ignorance is there whether you respond to us or
not. The amusment factor doesn't change.


Actually Rick and Jonathon, I'm curious
why you're so interested in arguing with the posters here.

==========================
Not 'arguing' stupid. Just pointing out all the lys that AR/vegan loons
persist in promoting. Their delsuions are just plain ignorance and I'm here
just to inform.

People don't
typically hang out with those they vehemently disagree with.

=====================
Too bad. You want justification for your ignorance, then keep it for like
minded idiots. You spew it around the world for all to see and you'll be
called on it.

Is it just
something you do for entertainment; are you members of the beef council
looking for converts; is it a mission from God?

==========================
Neither fool. Your ignornace is the reason.


Do vegetarians come to your
"eat meat a lot" newsgroup and pounce on you, so you do this for
retribution? Maybe it's a gang thing. I guess that would make you the
bloods.... (ha ha)

====================
Wow, what wit. I guess that's all you have, eh killer. Obviously you can't
refute what we say.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jahnu"
Newsgroups:

alt.philosophy,talk.philosophy.misc,talk.politics. animals,misc.rural,uk.busi
ness.agriculture,alt.food.vegan
Sent: Saturday, January 03, 2004 5:12 AM
Subject: No need for farm animals.


On Fri, 02 Jan 2004 20:17:42 GMT, "Rubystars"
wrote:


"Jahnu" wrote in message
snip

Look Jahnu, I'm not saying there wouldn't be more *food* but forcing

people
to go on a vegan diet who don't know how to do so would cause

malnutrition
and at least some deaths from starvation.


I am not an advocate of a vegan diet. I suggest a vegetarian diet,
which includes milk products. Nobody will die from starvation by
becoming a vegetarian. They will rather improve their mental and
physical health significantly by abstaining from meat. On the other
hand a lot of people die before their time from diseases related to
meat-eating.

-jahnu
www.krishna.com
www.iskcon.org


"rick etter" wrote in message
...

"Jahnu" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 02 Jan 2004 20:17:42 GMT, "Rubystars"
wrote:


"Jahnu" wrote in message
snip

Look Jahnu, I'm not saying there wouldn't be more *food* but forcing

people
to go on a vegan diet who don't know how to do so would cause

malnutrition
and at least some deaths from starvation.

I am not an advocate of a vegan diet. I suggest a vegetarian diet,
which includes milk products. Nobody will die from starvation by
becoming a vegetarian. They will rather improve their mental and
physical health significantly by abstaining from meat. On the other
hand a lot of people die before their time from diseases related to
meat-eating.

===============
Another ly. Too bad that's all you have, killer.







  #45 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 03-01-2004, 08:21 PM
rick etter
 
Posts: n/a
Default No need for farm animals.


"Allyb" wrote in message
...
I care because I think it's really interesting what you do. I'm not

nearly
as interested in fantasy as I am about reality. I know you're probably
going to have something biting to say about that since you think you know
the lifestyle I live, but it's the truth. I'm honestly curious about what
motivates you. Maybe I should have been an anthropologist............

I'm
very interested in atypical responses to stimuli. I think it's atypical
that anti-vegans spend so much time in a vegan newsgroup,

=======================
Hey stupid, just look at the headers. For once in your life try reading for
comprehension. How many 'vegan' groups do you see there, dolt?

you piqued my
interest. I'm not a one issue girl ya know.

=================
Just a stupid one? Live your fantasy, killer.





"Jonathan Ball" wrote in message
link.net...
Allyb wrote:

Jahnu, don't waste your time arguing with them, it'll just give you

stress,
and give them too much enjoyment. Actually Rick and Jonathon, I'm

curious
why you're so interested in arguing with the posters here. People

don't
typically hang out with those they vehemently disagree with. Is it

just
something you do for entertainment; are you members of the beef

council
looking for converts; is it a mission from God?


Why would you possibly care? Anyway, you have lots of
lurid fantasies to keep you satisfied; you can
vacillate among them as you see fit.







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