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  #76 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 04-01-2004, 09:09 PM
Jonathan Ball
 
Posts: n/a
Default No need for farm animals.

Jahnu wrote:

On Sat, 03 Jan 2004 15:59:44 GMT, Jonathan Ball
wrote:


Jahnu wrote:

It's funny how meat heads


Oh, *there* is a calm, rational, discussion-advancing
expression.

always go balistic


I didn't. I described, rather, how so-called "ethical"
vegetarians have no regard for the constitution, in
their fanatical wish to impose their views on others.



Constitution? You forget I am from Europe. I couldn't care less about
your constitution.


Irrelevant, and truly a stupid, ****witted dodge. The
point is that stupid irrational "vegans" want to
overthrow the legitimate, lawful, constitutional
governments wherever they are, in order to impose their
benighted values on others.



and have to resort to all
kinds of imbecile and moronic responses when the subject of
vegetarianism comes up. I wonder why that is.


It isn't. You have invented it in your sick, sordid
imagination.



Invented?


Yes: invented, in your sordid imagination.


I guess they have
neither empathy for other living entities


False.



Anyone who supports the mass slaughter of animals in the modern
consumer culture must be completely devoid of any empathy towards
other living entities.


False. Repeating it, and using more words to do so,
will not make it true. Your claim is false.



It isn't. You are an irrational, overwrought crackpot.



I am merely stating facts, that's all.


No, you are not stating facts. You are venting your
spleen; nothing more.


You exist, barely, at the fringe of civilized
society. The truly strange thing is, you voluntarily
went out onto the fringe.



Now, that's real rational


Yes, it is. It is a rational observation of you and
your social milieu.


  #77 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 05-01-2004, 12:53 AM
Russ Thompson
 
Posts: n/a
Default No need for farm animals.

BTW, I don't advocate veganism. I advocate vegetarianism. Still mooses
don't take milk products.


What do you suppose happens to the cows who produced the milk that makes
your cheese after they are no longer productive?

Kala Thompson
Farmer
Richland Center, Wi USA




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  #78 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 05-01-2004, 02:18 PM
Jahnu
 
Posts: n/a
Default No need for farm animals.

On Sun, 4 Jan 2004 13:10:05 -0500, "rick etter"
wrote:

yep, that's all you have....



ARE HUMANS ENDANGERED IF CATTLE DINE ON CHICKEN MANURE?
August 23, 1997 Web posted at: 1:52 p.m. EDT (1752 GMT)

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- As federal food safety inspectors search for the
source of E. coli bacteria that contaminated ground beef from a
Nebraska processing plant, a serious new threat to the U.S. beef
supply is being overlooked, according to an upcoming article in U.S.
News and World Report.

Increasingly, American cattle farmers feed their herds chicken manure,
which health officials warn could contain dangerous bacteria that ends
up in ground meat eaten by humans, the magazine reports in its
September 1 issue. The waste that is mixed with livestock feed is a
less expensive alternative to using grains and hay.

The practice is increasingly being used by cattle farmers in regions
where there are large poultry operations -- and thus a ready supply of
cheap manure -- such as California, the South and the mid-Atlantic
states.

The U.S. News article cites as an example Dardanelle, Arkansas, farmer
Lamar Carter, who recently bought 745 tons of manure from local
chicken houses to feed his 800 head of cattle.

"My cows are as fat as butterballs," Carter said. "If I didn't have
chicken litter, I'd have to sell half my herd. Other feed's too
expensive."

HEATING MANURE TO 160 DEGREES KILLS BACTERIA

Chicken manure often contains campylobacteria and salmonella bacteria,
which can make humans sick. Intestinal parasites, veterinary drug
residues and heavy toxic metals such as arsenic, lead, cadmium and
mercury are also often present in the waste, the article says.

The article points to a scientific study, soon to be published in the
journal Preventive Medicine, that warns about the potential dangers of
recycling chicken waste by feeding it to cattle.

"Feeding manure that has not been properly processed is supercharging
the cattle feces with pathogens likely to cause disease in consumers,"
Dr. Neal Barnard, author of the study, warns in the U.S. News article.

While it may sound distasteful, this can be safe if the manure is
heated to 160 degrees to kill the bacteria. But, the study says many
farmers don't take that precaution.

There are no accurate statistics on how common the practice of feeding
chicken manure to cattle is, the magazine report says, but with a
recent ban on the use of slaughterhouse byproducts -- imposed because
of the "mad cow" disease scare -- there is a shortage of cattle feed
filler.

Until the ban, about 75 percent of the 90 million cattle in the United
States were fed slaughterhouse wastes that included blood, bones and
viscera.

Millions of euthanized cats and dogs, collected from veterinarians and
animal shelters, have long been rendered into livestock feed each
year, the article says.

© 1997 Cable News Network, Inc. All Rights Reserved.

www.krishna.com
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  #79 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 05-01-2004, 02:18 PM
Jahnu
 
Posts: n/a
Default No need for farm animals.

On Sun, 4 Jan 2004 13:12:59 -0500, "rick etter"
wrote:

That's all he has, cut-n-paste. Never has anything to actually refute what
he doens't like said, and can never really defend his own position.




HOW TO WIN AN ARGUMENT WITH A MEAT EATER

The New York Times, Tuesday, June 20, 1989



The Hunger Argument

Number of people worldwide who will die of starvation this year: 60
million.

Number of people who could be adequately fed with the grain saved if
Americans reduced their intake of meat by 10 perc.: 60 million

Human beings in America: 243 million

Number of people who could be fed with grain and soybeans now eaten by
U.S. livestock: 1.3 billion

Percentage of corn grown in the U.S. eaten by people: 20

Percentage of corn grown in the U.S. eaten by livestock: 80

Percentage of oats grown in the U.S. eaten by livestock: 95

Percentage of protein waste by cycling grain through livestock: 99

How frequently a child starves to death: every 2 seconds

Pounds of potatoes that can be grown on an ac 20.OOO

Pounds of beef produced on an ac 165

Percentage of U.S. farmland devoted to beef production: 56

Pounds of grain and soybeans needed to produce a pound of beef: 16



The Environmental Argument

Cause of global warming: greenhouse effect

Primary cause of greenhouse effect: carbon dioxide emissions from
fossil fuels.

Fossil fuels needed to produce a meat-centered diet vs. a meat-free
diet: 50 times more

Percentage of U.S. topsoil lost to date: 75

Percentage of U.S. topsoil loss directly related to livestock raising:
85

Number of acres of U.S. forest cleared for cropland to produce
meat-centered diet: 260 million

Amount of meat U.S. imports annually from Costa Rica, El Salvador,
Guatemala, Honduras and Panama: 200 million pounds

Average per capita meat consumption in Costa Rica, El Salvador,
Guatemala, Honduras and Panama: less than eaten by average U.S.
housecat.

Area of tropical rainforest consumed in every 1/4 pound hamburger: 55
sq.ft.

Current rate of species extinction due to destruction of tropical
rainforests for meat grazing and other uses: 1.000 per year



The Cancer Argument

Increased risk of breast cancer for women who eat meat 4 times a week
vs. less than once a week: 4 times

For women who eat eggs daily vs. less than once a week: 3 times

Increased risk of fatal ovarian cancer for women who eat eggs 3 or
more times a week vs. less than once a week: 3 times

Increased risk of fatal prostate cancer for men who eat meat daily vs.
sparingly or not at all: 3.6 times



The Natural Resources Argument

Use of more than half of all water used for all purposes in the U.S.:
livestock portion.

Amount of water used in production of the average steer: sufficient to
float a destroyer.

Gallons to produce a pound of wheat: 25

Gallons to produce a pound of meat: 2.500

Cost of common hamburger if water used by meat industry was not
subsidized by the U.S. taxpayer: 35 dollars a pound

Current cost of pound of protein from beefsteak, if water was no
longer subsidized: 89 dollars

Years the world's known oil reserves would last if every human ate a
meat-centered diet: 13

Years they would last if human beings no longer ate meat: 260

Barrels of oil imported into U.S. daily: 6.8 million

Percentage of fossil fuel returned as food energy by most efficient
factory farming of meat: 34.5

Percentage returned from least efficient plant food: 32.8

Percentage of raw materials consumed by U.S. to produce present
meat-centered diet: 33



The Cholesterol Argument

Number of U.S. medical schools: 125

Number requiring a course in nutrition: 30

Nutrition training received by average U.S. physician during four
years in medical school: 25 hours

Most common cause of death in U.S.: heart attack

How frequently a heart attack kills in U.S.: every 45 seconds

Average U.S. man's risk of death from heart attack: 50 perc.

Risk for average U.S. man who avoids the meat-centered diet: 15 perc.

Meat industry claims you should not be concerned about your blood
cholesterol if it is: normal

Your risk of dying of a disease caused by clogged arteries if your
blood cholesterol is ?normal?: over 50 perc.



The Antibiotic Argument

Percentage of U.S. antibiotics fed to livestock: 55

Percentage of staphylococci infections resistant to penicillin in
1960: 13

Percentage resistant in 1988: 91

Response of European Economic Community to routine feeding of
antibiotics to livestock: ban

Response of U.S. meat and pharmaceutical industries to routine feeding
of antibiotics to livestock: full and complete support


The Pesticide Argument

Percentage of pesticide residues in the U.S. diet supplied by grains:
1

Percentage of pesticide residues in the U.S. diet supplied by fruits:
4

Percentage of pesticide residues in the U.S. diet suppl. by dairy
products: 23

Percentage of pesticide residues in the U.S. diet supplied by meat: 55

Pesticide contamination of breast milk from meat-eating mothers vs.
non meat-eating: 35 times higher

What USDA tells us: meat is inspected

Percentage of slaughtered animals inspected for residues of toxin
chemicals including dioxin and DDT: less than 0.00004



The Ethical Argument

Number of animals killed for meat per hour in U.S.: 500.000

Occupation with highest turnover rate in U.S.: slaughterhouse worker

Occupation with highest rate of on-the-job injury in
U.S:slaughterhouse worker

Cost to render animal unconscious with captive bolt pistol before
slaughter.: 1 cent

Reason given by meat industry for non using that pistol: too expensive



The Survival Argument

Athlete to win Ironman Triathlon more than twice: Dave Scott (6 time
winner) Food choices of Dave Scott: Vegetarian

Largest meat eater than ever lived: Tyrannosaurus Rex

Last sighting of Tyrannosaurus Rex: 100.000.000 B.C.


Famous pop stars - vegetarians:
-------------------------------
Candice Bergen, David Bowie, Paul Mc Cartney, Darryl Hannah, Janet
Jackson, k.d.lang, Sting

'I am a great eater of beef, and I believe that does harm to my wit.'
--William Shakespeare "Twelfth Night," Act I, Scene 3

www.krishna.com
www.iskcon.org
  #80 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 05-01-2004, 02:18 PM
Jahnu
 
Posts: n/a
Default No need for farm animals.

On Sun, 4 Jan 2004 13:11:38 -0500, "rick etter"
wrote:


"Jahnu" wrote in message


snippage of more from a cut-n-paste bozo that has nothing to say of his own,
mainly because his veagn diet has diminished his one remaining braincell to
mush...


At least I have something to cut and paste to support my position.
What have you posted to support your position, except whine and bicker
over the irrefutable facts that I keep sending?

But keep squirming meat-head. I am going to flood you with facts until
you finally shut up and crawl back under the stone where you came
from. Here is some mo

Dear Editor

Last week's headlines have brought alarming news about
the sorry state of our public and planetary health.

The USDA has forced the recall of 25 million pounds of hamburger meat
that may be contaminated with deadly E. coli bacteria and the closure
of the offending plant.

Excessive use of antibiotics in raising farm animals and in medical
practice has forged a Staphylococcus bacterium that is immune to all
these drugs.

Effluents from farm animal waste have nurtured toxic algae
that have killed billions of fish and devastated fisheries throughout
the eastern seaboard, from Delaware to Louisiana.

Cornell University Professor David Pimentel told
a national animal science meeting that our soil, water, and energy
resources can not sustain current levels of animal agriculture.

The Worldwatch Institute has warned that world grain production is
falling behind meat consumption, leading to higher grain and meat
prices and widespread famines in developing countries.

Surely, the time has come for consumers to see the handwriting on the
wall and to adopt a plant-based diet advocated by leading health and
environmental authorities for the past 25 years.

Sincerely,


1997 Maynard S. Clark
P. O. Box 38-1068, Cambridge, MA 02238-1068
617-625-3790 (Voice) 617-357-2064 (Facsimile)
http://www.tiac.net/users/vrc/index.htm
http://www.tiac.net/users/vrc/maynard.htm
http://www.tiac.net/users/srs/cal_list.html#major



www.krishna.com
www.iskcon.org


  #81 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 05-01-2004, 02:18 PM
Jahnu
 
Posts: n/a
Default No need for farm animals.

On Sun, 4 Jan 2004 13:24:22 -0500, "rick etter"
wrote:


"Jahnu" wrote in message


Then why did you ly, again? Lys seem to be the only things that you have to
post, eh killer?


hehe, see how desparate they become when you just flood them with
facts. I can just see the idiot, flustered, hammering away on his
key-board so eager to send his lame comments that he doesn't even take
the time to run the spell checker first.

Now, go have that nice blood-drenched dinner, hypocrite.


No thanks, I leave that to you, meat-head.


www.krishna.com
www.iskcon.org
  #82 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 05-01-2004, 02:18 PM
Jahnu
 
Posts: n/a
Default No need for farm animals.

On Sun, 4 Jan 2004 13:48:35 -0600, "Russ Thompson"
wrote:

I know, but someone did. Why don't you complain about him being
irrational?


*** I don't think it is helpful to complain about anyone being irrational.
When a person is being irrational it is pretty clear to all normal
reasonable people.


I agree. That's why I point it out to you.


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  #83 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 05-01-2004, 02:18 PM
Jahnu
 
Posts: n/a
Default No need for farm animals.

On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 20:09:43 GMT, Jonathan Ball
wrote:

Jahnu wrote:


Constitution? You forget I am from Europe. I couldn't care less about
your constitution.


Irrelevant, and truly a stupid, ****witted dodge. The
point is that stupid irrational "vegans" want to
overthrow the legitimate, lawful, constitutional
governments wherever they are, in order to impose their
benighted values on others.


Not me. I just hate atheist meat-heads.

Anyone who supports the mass slaughter of animals in the modern
consumer culture must be completely devoid of any empathy towards
other living entities.


False. Repeating it, and using more words to do so,
will not make it true. Your claim is false.


According to who?

No, you are not stating facts. You are venting your
spleen; nothing more.


I am merely stating facts, that's all. And they don't become less
facts by you denying it.

Yes, it is. It is a rational observation of you and
your social milieu.


hahaha, says someone who grew up in a Mickey Mouse culture and elected
a retard for president.

Once again, just to hammer home the point:



HOW TO WIN AN ARGUMENT WITH A MEAT EATER

The New York Times, Tuesday, June 20, 1989



The Hunger Argument

Number of people worldwide who will die of starvation this year: 60
million.

Number of people who could be adequately fed with the grain saved if
Americans reduced their intake of meat by 10 perc.: 60 million

Human beings in America: 243 million

Number of people who could be fed with grain and soybeans now eaten by
U.S. livestock: 1.3 billion

Percentage of corn grown in the U.S. eaten by people: 20

Percentage of corn grown in the U.S. eaten by livestock: 80

Percentage of oats grown in the U.S. eaten by livestock: 95

Percentage of protein waste by cycling grain through livestock: 99

How frequently a child starves to death: every 2 seconds

Pounds of potatoes that can be grown on an ac 20.OOO

Pounds of beef produced on an ac 165

Percentage of U.S. farmland devoted to beef production: 56

Pounds of grain and soybeans needed to produce a pound of beef: 16



The Environmental Argument

Cause of global warming: greenhouse effect

Primary cause of greenhouse effect: carbon dioxide emissions from
fossil fuels.

Fossil fuels needed to produce a meat-centered diet vs. a meat-free
diet: 50 times more

Percentage of U.S. topsoil lost to date: 75

Percentage of U.S. topsoil loss directly related to livestock raising:
85

Number of acres of U.S. forest cleared for cropland to produce
meat-centered diet: 260 million

Amount of meat U.S. imports annually from Costa Rica, El Salvador,
Guatemala, Honduras and Panama: 200 million pounds

Average per capita meat consumption in Costa Rica, El Salvador,
Guatemala, Honduras and Panama: less than eaten by average U.S.
housecat.

Area of tropical rainforest consumed in every 1/4 pound hamburger: 55
sq.ft.

Current rate of species extinction due to destruction of tropical
rainforests for meat grazing and other uses: 1.000 per year



The Cancer Argument

Increased risk of breast cancer for women who eat meat 4 times a week
vs. less than once a week: 4 times

For women who eat eggs daily vs. less than once a week: 3 times

Increased risk of fatal ovarian cancer for women who eat eggs 3 or
more times a week vs. less than once a week: 3 times

Increased risk of fatal prostate cancer for men who eat meat daily vs.
sparingly or not at all: 3.6 times



The Natural Resources Argument

Use of more than half of all water used for all purposes in the U.S.:
livestock portion.

Amount of water used in production of the average steer: sufficient to
float a destroyer.

Gallons to produce a pound of wheat: 25

Gallons to produce a pound of meat: 2.500

Cost of common hamburger if water used by meat industry was not
subsidized by the U.S. taxpayer: 35 dollars a pound

Current cost of pound of protein from beefsteak, if water was no
longer subsidized: 89 dollars

Years the world's known oil reserves would last if every human ate a
meat-centered diet: 13

Years they would last if human beings no longer ate meat: 260

Barrels of oil imported into U.S. daily: 6.8 million

Percentage of fossil fuel returned as food energy by most efficient
factory farming of meat: 34.5

Percentage returned from least efficient plant food: 32.8

Percentage of raw materials consumed by U.S. to produce present
meat-centered diet: 33



The Cholesterol Argument

Number of U.S. medical schools: 125

Number requiring a course in nutrition: 30

Nutrition training received by average U.S. physician during four
years in medical school: 25 hours

Most common cause of death in U.S.: heart attack

How frequently a heart attack kills in U.S.: every 45 seconds

Average U.S. man's risk of death from heart attack: 50 perc.

Risk for average U.S. man who avoids the meat-centered diet: 15 perc.

Meat industry claims you should not be concerned about your blood
cholesterol if it is: normal

Your risk of dying of a disease caused by clogged arteries if your
blood cholesterol is ?normal?: over 50 perc.



The Antibiotic Argument

Percentage of U.S. antibiotics fed to livestock: 55

Percentage of staphylococci infections resistant to penicillin in
1960: 13

Percentage resistant in 1988: 91

Response of European Economic Community to routine feeding of
antibiotics to livestock: ban

Response of U.S. meat and pharmaceutical industries to routine feeding
of antibiotics to livestock: full and complete support


The Pesticide Argument

Percentage of pesticide residues in the U.S. diet supplied by grains:
1

Percentage of pesticide residues in the U.S. diet supplied by fruits:
4

Percentage of pesticide residues in the U.S. diet suppl. by dairy
products: 23

Percentage of pesticide residues in the U.S. diet supplied by meat: 55

Pesticide contamination of breast milk from meat-eating mothers vs.
non meat-eating: 35 times higher

What USDA tells us: meat is inspected

Percentage of slaughtered animals inspected for residues of toxin
chemicals including dioxin and DDT: less than 0.00004



The Ethical Argument

Number of animals killed for meat per hour in U.S.: 500.000

Occupation with highest turnover rate in U.S.: slaughterhouse worker

Occupation with highest rate of on-the-job injury in
U.S:slaughterhouse worker

Cost to render animal unconscious with captive bolt pistol before
slaughter.: 1 cent

Reason given by meat industry for non using that pistol: too expensive



The Survival Argument

Athlete to win Ironman Triathlon more than twice: Dave Scott (6 time
winner) Food choices of Dave Scott: Vegetarian

Largest meat eater than ever lived: Tyrannosaurus Rex

Last sighting of Tyrannosaurus Rex: 100.000.000 B.C.


Famous pop stars - vegetarians:
-------------------------------
Candice Bergen, David Bowie, Paul Mc Cartney, Darryl Hannah, Janet
Jackson, k.d.lang, Sting

'I am a great eater of beef, and I believe that does harm to my wit.'
--William Shakespeare "Twelfth Night," Act I, Scene 3

www.krishna.com
www.iskcon.org
  #84 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 05-01-2004, 02:19 PM
Jahnu
 
Posts: n/a
Default No need for farm animals.

On Sun, 4 Jan 2004 13:15:31 -0500, "rick etter"
wrote:


"Jahnu" wrote in message


The reason that they hang out in Vegan news groups and spew their BS
is simply because they don't have anywhere else to vent all the anger
and envy that come from their bad diet.


Hey loser, you too should check the headers. How many vegan groups do you
see there? As for diet, check the lists of people who live the longest,
they aren't dominated by vegans, killer.


No, they are dominated by vegetarians, meat-head.

"Can a vegetarian diet improve or restore health? Can it prevent
certain diseases?

Advocates of vegetarianism have said yes for many years, although they
didin't have much support from modern science until recently. Now,
medical researchers have discovered evidence of a link between
meat-eating and such killers as heart disease and cancer, so they are
giving vegetarianism another look.

Since the 1960s, scientists have suspected that a meat based diet is
somehow related to the development of arteriosclerosis and heart
disease. As early as 1961, the Journal of the American Medical
Association said: 'Ninety to ninety-seven percent of heart diseases
can be prevented by a vegetarian diet.'1 Since that time, several
well-organized studies have scientifically shown that after tobacco
and alcohol, the consumption of meat is the greatest single cause pf
mortality in Western Europe, The USA, Australia, and other affluent
areas of the world.2

The human body is unable to deal with excessive amounts of animal fat
and cholesterol.3 A poll of 214 scientists doing research on
arteriosclerosis in 23 countries showed almost total agreement that
there is a link between diet, serum cholesterol levels, and heart
disease.4 When a person eats more cholesterol than the body needs (as
he usual does with a meat-centered diet), the excess cholesterol
gradually becomes a problem. It accumulates on the inner walls of the
arteries, constricts the flow of blood to the heart, and can lead to
high blood preassure, heart diseases, and strokes.

On the other hand, scientists at the University of Milan and Maggiore
Hospital have shown that vegetable protein may act to keep cholesterol
levels low. In a report to the British medical journal 'The Lancet'
D.C.R. Sirtori concluded that people with the type of high cholesterol
associated with heart disease 'may benefit from a diet in which
protein comes only from vegetables.'5

What about cancer? Research over the past twenty years strongly
suggests a link between meat-eating and cancer of the colon, rectum,
breast, and uterus. These types of cancer are rare among those who eat
little or no meat, such as the Seventh-Day Adventists, Japanese, and
Indians, but are prevalent among meat-eating populations.6

Another article in 'The Lancet' reported, 'People living in the areas
with a high recorded incidence of carcinoma of the colon tend to live
on diets containing large amounts of fat and animal protein; whereas
those who live in areas with a low incidence live on largely
vegetarian diets with little fat or animal matter.'7

Rollo Russell, in his 'Notes on the Causation of Cancer', says, 'I
have found of 25 nations eating mostly flesh, 19 had a high cancer
rate and only one had a low rate, and that of 35 nations eating little
or no flesh, none had a high rate.'8

Why do meat-eaters seem more prone to these diseases? One reason given
by biologists and nutritionists is that man's intestinal tract is
simply not suited for digesting meat. Flesh-eating animals have short
intestinal tracts (3 times the length of the animal's body), to
quickly excrete rapidly decaying toxin-producing meat from the system.
Since plant foods decay more slowly than meat, plant-eaters have
intestines at least six times the length of the body. Man has the long
intestinal tract of a herbivore, so if he eats meat, toxins can
overload kidneys and lead to gout, arthritis, rheumatism, and even
cancer.

And then there are chemical added to meat. As soon as an animal is
slaughtered its flesh begins to putrefy, and after several days it
turns a sickly gray-green. The meat industry masks this discoloration
by adding nitrites, nitrates, and other preservatives to give the meat
a bright red color. But research has shown many of these preservatives
to be carcinogenic.9

And what makes the problem worse is the massive amounts of chemicals
fed to livestock. Gary and Steven Null, in their book, 'Poisons in
your Body', show us something that ought to make anyone think twice
before buying another steak or ham. 'The animals are kept alive and
fattened by continuous administration of tranquilizers, hormones,
antibiotics, and 2.700 other drugs. The process starts even before
birth and continues long after death. Although these drugs will still
be present in the meat when you eat it, the law does not require that
they be listed on the package.'10

Because of findings like this, the American National Academy of
Sciences reported in 1983 that, 'people may be able to prevent many
common types of cancer by eating less fatty meats and more vegetables
and grains.'11

But wait a minute! Weren't we human beings designed to be meat-eaters?
Don't we need animal protein? The answer to both these questions is
no. Although some historians and anthropologists say that man is
historically omnivorous, our anatomical equipment - teeth, jaws, and
digestive system - favors a fleshless diet. The American Dietetic
Association notes that 'most of mankind for most of human history has
lived on vegetarian or near-vegetarian diets.'

And much of the world still lives that way. Even in most
industrialized countries the love affair with meat is less than a
hundred years old. It started with the refrigerator, car, and the 20th
century consumer society.

But even in the 20th century, man's body hasn't adapted to eating
meat. The prominent Swedish scientist Karl von Linne states, 'Man's
structure, external and internal, compared with that of the other
animals, shows that fruit and succulent vegetables constitute his
natural food.'

(The chart I have posted several times compare the anatomy of man with
that of carnivorous and herbivorous animals.)

As for the protein question, Dr.Paavo Airola, a leading authority on
nutrition and natural biology, has this to say: 'The official daily
recommendation for protein has gone down from the 150 grams
recommended twenty years ago to only 45 grams today. Why? Because
reliable worldwide research has shown that we do not need so much
protein, that the actual daily need is only 30 to 45 grams. Protein
consumed in excess of the actual daily need is not only wasted, but
actually causes serious harm to the body and is even causatively
related to such killer diseases as cancer and heart diesase. In order
to obtain 45 grams of protein a day from your diet, you do not have to
eat meat; you can get it from a 100% vegetarian diet of a variety of
grains, lentils, nuts, vegetables, and fruits.'12

Dairy products, grains, beans, and nuts are all concentrated sources
of protein. Cheese, peanuts, and lentils, for instance, contain more
protein per ounce than hamburger, pork, or porter-house steak.

Still nutritians thought until recently that only meat, fish, eggs,
and milk products had complete proteins (containing the 8 amino acids
not produced in the body), and that all vegetable proteins were
incomplete (lacking one or more of these amino acids). But research at
the Karolinska Institute in Sweden and the Max Planck Institute in
Germany has shown that most vegetables, fruits, seeds, nuts, and
grains are excellent sources of complete proteins.

In fact, their proteins are easier to assimilate than those of meat -
and they don't bring with them any toxins. It's nearly impossible to
lack protein if you eat enough natural unrefined food. Remember, the
vegetable kingdom is the real source of ALL protein. Vegetarians
simply eat it 'direct' instead of getting it second-hand from the
vegetarian animals."


References:

Can be had upon request.



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  #85 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 05-01-2004, 02:19 PM
Jahnu
 
Posts: n/a
Default No need for farm animals.

On Sun, 4 Jan 2004 10:43:45 -0500, "Tim" aaa wrote:

FYI. A moose is not a human. Moose have a tendency to be covered in hair.


But a wolf has more hair, so that would defeat your notion that you
need meat to develop layers of fat to keep warm in a cold climate.

Avacados and what ever else you ate don't grow in -30c. Also you probably
lived in a heated house. Still moose aren't human. And you call my point
moronic - ha.


What are we talking about now? Do you mean to say that because they
can't grow vegetables in minus 30 it is alright to slaughter animals
en masse where they CAN grow vegetables and where it is not necessary
to eat meat to survive? Either you are confused or you are being
deliberately obtrusive.

Like you point out veggies don't grow where Eskimos live. How then can they
be herbivores?


Who said they were?

The fat afforded by certain veggies will not help someone
exposed to the elements.


Sure it will. It's just that the vegetables are not available there.
As you can see in the example with the moose they have no problem
living in extreme cold climates even though they have shorter hairs
than the carnivores who live under the same conditions.

Again living in a nice heated house doesn't equate
you with an Eskimo or Siberian.


Is that your argument for eating meat - that eskimos do it? Where is
the sense in that?


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  #86 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 05-01-2004, 02:19 PM
Jahnu
 
Posts: n/a
Default No need for farm animals.

On Sun, 4 Jan 2004 13:19:24 -0500, "rick etter"
wrote:

Hey stupid, your diet hen causes far more animal deathand suffering than
almost anybody else.


How do you figure that, meat head?

Do you think all that imported stuff just falls like
manna from heaven? The transportation costs alone for your food is a
massive killer. You are truely one brain dead hypocrite.


As you can see from the facts below the meat industry causes
infinitely more harm and waste of energy than vege-production.



HOW TO WIN AN ARGUMENT WITH A MEAT EATER

The New York Times, Tuesday, June 20, 1989



The Hunger Argument

Number of people worldwide who will die of starvation this year: 60
million.

Number of people who could be adequately fed with the grain saved if
Americans reduced their intake of meat by 10 perc.: 60 million

Human beings in America: 243 million

Number of people who could be fed with grain and soybeans now eaten by
U.S. livestock: 1.3 billion

Percentage of corn grown in the U.S. eaten by people: 20

Percentage of corn grown in the U.S. eaten by livestock: 80

Percentage of oats grown in the U.S. eaten by livestock: 95

Percentage of protein waste by cycling grain through livestock: 99

How frequently a child starves to death: every 2 seconds

Pounds of potatoes that can be grown on an ac 20.OOO

Pounds of beef produced on an ac 165

Percentage of U.S. farmland devoted to beef production: 56

Pounds of grain and soybeans needed to produce a pound of beef: 16



The Environmental Argument

Cause of global warming: greenhouse effect

Primary cause of greenhouse effect: carbon dioxide emissions from
fossil fuels.

Fossil fuels needed to produce a meat-centered diet vs. a meat-free
diet: 50 times more

Percentage of U.S. topsoil lost to date: 75

Percentage of U.S. topsoil loss directly related to livestock raising:
85

Number of acres of U.S. forest cleared for cropland to produce
meat-centered diet: 260 million

Amount of meat U.S. imports annually from Costa Rica, El Salvador,
Guatemala, Honduras and Panama: 200 million pounds

Average per capita meat consumption in Costa Rica, El Salvador,
Guatemala, Honduras and Panama: less than eaten by average U.S.
housecat.

Area of tropical rainforest consumed in every 1/4 pound hamburger: 55
sq.ft.

Current rate of species extinction due to destruction of tropical
rainforests for meat grazing and other uses: 1.000 per year



The Cancer Argument

Increased risk of breast cancer for women who eat meat 4 times a week
vs. less than once a week: 4 times

For women who eat eggs daily vs. less than once a week: 3 times

Increased risk of fatal ovarian cancer for women who eat eggs 3 or
more times a week vs. less than once a week: 3 times

Increased risk of fatal prostate cancer for men who eat meat daily vs.
sparingly or not at all: 3.6 times



The Natural Resources Argument

Use of more than half of all water used for all purposes in the U.S.:
livestock portion.

Amount of water used in production of the average steer: sufficient to
float a destroyer.

Gallons to produce a pound of wheat: 25

Gallons to produce a pound of meat: 2.500

Cost of common hamburger if water used by meat industry was not
subsidized by the U.S. taxpayer: 35 dollars a pound

Current cost of pound of protein from beefsteak, if water was no
longer subsidized: 89 dollars

Years the world's known oil reserves would last if every human ate a
meat-centered diet: 13

Years they would last if human beings no longer ate meat: 260

Barrels of oil imported into U.S. daily: 6.8 million

Percentage of fossil fuel returned as food energy by most efficient
factory farming of meat: 34.5

Percentage returned from least efficient plant food: 32.8

Percentage of raw materials consumed by U.S. to produce present
meat-centered diet: 33



The Cholesterol Argument

Number of U.S. medical schools: 125

Number requiring a course in nutrition: 30

Nutrition training received by average U.S. physician during four
years in medical school: 25 hours

Most common cause of death in U.S.: heart attack

How frequently a heart attack kills in U.S.: every 45 seconds

Average U.S. man's risk of death from heart attack: 50 perc.

Risk for average U.S. man who avoids the meat-centered diet: 15 perc.

Meat industry claims you should not be concerned about your blood
cholesterol if it is: normal

Your risk of dying of a disease caused by clogged arteries if your
blood cholesterol is ?normal?: over 50 perc.



The Antibiotic Argument

Percentage of U.S. antibiotics fed to livestock: 55

Percentage of staphylococci infections resistant to penicillin in
1960: 13

Percentage resistant in 1988: 91

Response of European Economic Community to routine feeding of
antibiotics to livestock: ban

Response of U.S. meat and pharmaceutical industries to routine feeding
of antibiotics to livestock: full and complete support


The Pesticide Argument

Percentage of pesticide residues in the U.S. diet supplied by grains:
1

Percentage of pesticide residues in the U.S. diet supplied by fruits:
4

Percentage of pesticide residues in the U.S. diet suppl. by dairy
products: 23

Percentage of pesticide residues in the U.S. diet supplied by meat: 55

Pesticide contamination of breast milk from meat-eating mothers vs.
non meat-eating: 35 times higher

What USDA tells us: meat is inspected

Percentage of slaughtered animals inspected for residues of toxin
chemicals including dioxin and DDT: less than 0.00004



The Ethical Argument

Number of animals killed for meat per hour in U.S.: 500.000

Occupation with highest turnover rate in U.S.: slaughterhouse worker

Occupation with highest rate of on-the-job injury in
U.S:slaughterhouse worker

Cost to render animal unconscious with captive bolt pistol before
slaughter.: 1 cent

Reason given by meat industry for non using that pistol: too expensive



The Survival Argument

Athlete to win Ironman Triathlon more than twice: Dave Scott (6 time
winner) Food choices of Dave Scott: Vegetarian

Largest meat eater than ever lived: Tyrannosaurus Rex

Last sighting of Tyrannosaurus Rex: 100.000.000 B.C.


Famous pop stars - vegetarians:
-------------------------------
Candice Bergen, David Bowie, Paul Mc Cartney, Darryl Hannah, Janet
Jackson, k.d.lang, Sting

'I am a great eater of beef, and I believe that does harm to my wit.'
--William Shakespeare "Twelfth Night," Act I, Scene 3

www.krishna.com
www.iskcon.org
  #87 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 05-01-2004, 02:19 PM
Jahnu
 
Posts: n/a
Default No need for farm animals.

On Sun, 4 Jan 2004 17:53:58 -0600, "Russ Thompson"
wrote:

BTW, I don't advocate veganism. I advocate vegetarianism. Still mooses
don't take milk products.


What do you suppose happens to the cows who produced the milk that makes
your cheese after they are no longer productive?


I live in an Indian village, where the cows are allowed to live out
their full natural lifespan.

Apart from that do you mean to say, that it is alright to slaughter
animals in the billions every year in automated slaughter houses,
because the animals are also being exploited by the dairy industry?

Then you make the mistake of thinking that two wrongs make one right.


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  #88 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 05-01-2004, 02:19 PM
Jahnu
 
Posts: n/a
Default No need for farm animals.

On Sun, 4 Jan 2004 13:48:35 -0500, "rick etter"
wrote:

LOL Then why do you keep responding idiot? And I might add, responding nut
never addressing what is dais. Why you doing all the tap dancing and
dodging, killer?


Because I love to see you squirm and make an ass out yourself,
meat-head.


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www.iskcon.org
  #89 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 05-01-2004, 02:19 PM
Jahnu
 
Posts: n/a
Default No need for farm animals.

On Sun, 4 Jan 2004 13:22:24 -0500, "rick etter"
wrote:


"Jahnu" wrote in message


HOW TO WIN AN ARGUMENT WITH A MEAT EATER

==================
Something you've never done, killer.


Oh, but I have, meat-head. The facts don't go away no matter how much
you deny them.

The New York Times, Tuesday, June 20,



snippage of 'factoids' that have no bearing on the massive amounts of death
and suffering *you* cause by you diet.


Nothing causes so much suffering to highly sensitive living entities
and ruins the environment as the meat production.

Are you really so stupid as to believe that a veg*n diet in the far north is
benificial to animals overall?


If more people go vegetarian less animals suffer, that's just common
sense. It doesn't whether they live in the far north or not. The meat
production is only the second largest business in the world because
there are so many meat-heads like you.

ou really need to feed those two braincells
of yours if you do, killer.

Now, go have that nice blood-drenched dinner, hypocrite.


No thanks. I know it must be hard for a die hard meat-head like you to
fathom that you can live without meat, but I can assure you it is
quite possible. Not only is it possible, but your quality of life will
improve so much more by turning to a vegetarian diet.

Just to hammer home the point once more, so that everybody can see how
clueless you a



HOW TO WIN AN ARGUMENT WITH A MEAT EATER

The New York Times, Tuesday, June 20, 1989



The Hunger Argument

Number of people worldwide who will die of starvation this year: 60
million.

Number of people who could be adequately fed with the grain saved if
Americans reduced their intake of meat by 10 perc.: 60 million

Human beings in America: 243 million

Number of people who could be fed with grain and soybeans now eaten by
U.S. livestock: 1.3 billion

Percentage of corn grown in the U.S. eaten by people: 20

Percentage of corn grown in the U.S. eaten by livestock: 80

Percentage of oats grown in the U.S. eaten by livestock: 95

Percentage of protein waste by cycling grain through livestock: 99

How frequently a child starves to death: every 2 seconds

Pounds of potatoes that can be grown on an ac 20.OOO

Pounds of beef produced on an ac 165

Percentage of U.S. farmland devoted to beef production: 56

Pounds of grain and soybeans needed to produce a pound of beef: 16



The Environmental Argument

Cause of global warming: greenhouse effect

Primary cause of greenhouse effect: carbon dioxide emissions from
fossil fuels.

Fossil fuels needed to produce a meat-centered diet vs. a meat-free
diet: 50 times more

Percentage of U.S. topsoil lost to date: 75

Percentage of U.S. topsoil loss directly related to livestock raising:
85

Number of acres of U.S. forest cleared for cropland to produce
meat-centered diet: 260 million

Amount of meat U.S. imports annually from Costa Rica, El Salvador,
Guatemala, Honduras and Panama: 200 million pounds

Average per capita meat consumption in Costa Rica, El Salvador,
Guatemala, Honduras and Panama: less than eaten by average U.S.
housecat.

Area of tropical rainforest consumed in every 1/4 pound hamburger: 55
sq.ft.

Current rate of species extinction due to destruction of tropical
rainforests for meat grazing and other uses: 1.000 per year



The Cancer Argument

Increased risk of breast cancer for women who eat meat 4 times a week
vs. less than once a week: 4 times

For women who eat eggs daily vs. less than once a week: 3 times

Increased risk of fatal ovarian cancer for women who eat eggs 3 or
more times a week vs. less than once a week: 3 times

Increased risk of fatal prostate cancer for men who eat meat daily vs.
sparingly or not at all: 3.6 times



The Natural Resources Argument

Use of more than half of all water used for all purposes in the U.S.:
livestock portion.

Amount of water used in production of the average steer: sufficient to
float a destroyer.

Gallons to produce a pound of wheat: 25

Gallons to produce a pound of meat: 2.500

Cost of common hamburger if water used by meat industry was not
subsidized by the U.S. taxpayer: 35 dollars a pound

Current cost of pound of protein from beefsteak, if water was no
longer subsidized: 89 dollars

Years the world's known oil reserves would last if every human ate a
meat-centered diet: 13

Years they would last if human beings no longer ate meat: 260

Barrels of oil imported into U.S. daily: 6.8 million

Percentage of fossil fuel returned as food energy by most efficient
factory farming of meat: 34.5

Percentage returned from least efficient plant food: 32.8

Percentage of raw materials consumed by U.S. to produce present
meat-centered diet: 33



The Cholesterol Argument

Number of U.S. medical schools: 125

Number requiring a course in nutrition: 30

Nutrition training received by average U.S. physician during four
years in medical school: 25 hours

Most common cause of death in U.S.: heart attack

How frequently a heart attack kills in U.S.: every 45 seconds

Average U.S. man's risk of death from heart attack: 50 perc.

Risk for average U.S. man who avoids the meat-centered diet: 15 perc.

Meat industry claims you should not be concerned about your blood
cholesterol if it is: normal

Your risk of dying of a disease caused by clogged arteries if your
blood cholesterol is ?normal?: over 50 perc.



The Antibiotic Argument

Percentage of U.S. antibiotics fed to livestock: 55

Percentage of staphylococci infections resistant to penicillin in
1960: 13

Percentage resistant in 1988: 91

Response of European Economic Community to routine feeding of
antibiotics to livestock: ban

Response of U.S. meat and pharmaceutical industries to routine feeding
of antibiotics to livestock: full and complete support


The Pesticide Argument

Percentage of pesticide residues in the U.S. diet supplied by grains:
1

Percentage of pesticide residues in the U.S. diet supplied by fruits:
4

Percentage of pesticide residues in the U.S. diet suppl. by dairy
products: 23

Percentage of pesticide residues in the U.S. diet supplied by meat: 55

Pesticide contamination of breast milk from meat-eating mothers vs.
non meat-eating: 35 times higher

What USDA tells us: meat is inspected

Percentage of slaughtered animals inspected for residues of toxin
chemicals including dioxin and DDT: less than 0.00004



The Ethical Argument

Number of animals killed for meat per hour in U.S.: 500.000

Occupation with highest turnover rate in U.S.: slaughterhouse worker

Occupation with highest rate of on-the-job injury in
U.S:slaughterhouse worker

Cost to render animal unconscious with captive bolt pistol before
slaughter.: 1 cent

Reason given by meat industry for non using that pistol: too expensive



The Survival Argument

Athlete to win Ironman Triathlon more than twice: Dave Scott (6 time
winner) Food choices of Dave Scott: Vegetarian

Largest meat eater than ever lived: Tyrannosaurus Rex

Last sighting of Tyrannosaurus Rex: 100.000.000 B.C.


Famous pop stars - vegetarians:
-------------------------------
Candice Bergen, David Bowie, Paul Mc Cartney, Darryl Hannah, Janet
Jackson, k.d.lang, Sting

'I am a great eater of beef, and I believe that does harm to my wit.'
--William Shakespeare "Twelfth Night," Act I, Scene 3


www.krishna.com
www.iskcon.org
  #90 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 05-01-2004, 03:55 PM
Russ Thompson
 
Posts: n/a
Default No need for farm animals.

The Hunger Argument

Number of people worldwide who will die of starvation this year: 60
million.
Number of people who could be adequately fed with the grain saved if
Americans reduced their intake of meat by 10 perc.: 60 million
Human beings in America: 243 million
Number of people who could be fed with grain and soybeans now eaten by
U.S. livestock: 1.3 billion
Percentage of corn grown in the U.S. eaten by people: 20
Percentage of corn grown in the U.S. eaten by livestock: 80
Percentage of oats grown in the U.S. eaten by livestock: 95
Percentage of protein waste by cycling grain through livestock: 99
How frequently a child starves to death: every 2 seconds
Pounds of potatoes that can be grown on an ac 20.OOO


*** Much to my surpise I have discovered that there are certain people who
actually buy into the above.
My question for those people is if you are under the impression that
the above could be true what is your opinion of CRP?
For those that don't know CRP is the program where the FSA pays land
owners not to grow crops on their land. Normal contracts are for 10 years
and the land must me planted to grass and left alone. In exchange the land
owner recieves a direct payment that is usually about 150% of the local
going rate for rented farm land. Currently there are millions of acres in
this program in the USA.

Kala Thompson
Farmer
Richland Center, Wi USA




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