Here's the absolute denial we've all been waiting for.
Rick Etter firmly believes that no animals die during
the production of his grass fed beef.

[start Ipse dixit]
> Then tell me how many collateral deaths are associated
> with the grass fed beef you eat. After that tell me if you
> accept that the *general* production, storage, and
> distribution of grass fed beef accumulates any collateral
> deaths.
============================
Why? The production of my beef promotes no CDs. Period.
[end]

This is a strange claim indeed for someone who
spends hours a day trying to convince everyone
their food is responsible for them, and that the
electricity they use to post here causes them, but
what's even more strange is the silence from Dutch,
Jonathan Ball and Usual Suspect while he denies
the facts behind his food. As I said earlier, "The
CD argument holds a double standard", and Rick
has helped me prove it.

"Ipse dixit" > wrote in message
...
> Here's the absolute denial we've all been waiting for.
> Rick Etter firmly believes that no animals die during
> the production of his grass fed beef.
>
> [start Ipse dixit]
> > Then tell me how many collateral deaths are associated
> > with the grass fed beef you eat. After that tell me if you
> > accept that the *general* production, storage, and
> > distribution of grass fed beef accumulates any collateral
> > deaths.
> ============================
> Why? The production of my beef promotes no CDs. Period.
> [end]
>
> This is a strange claim indeed for someone who
> spends hours a day trying to convince everyone
> their food is responsible for them, and that the
> electricity they use to post here causes them, but
> what's even more strange is the silence from Dutch,
> Jonathan Ball and Usual Suspect while he denies
> the facts behind his food. As I said earlier, "The
> CD argument holds a double standard", and Rick
> has helped me prove it.

The idea has some points... small scale food production, even animals, does
cause much less CDs.
It's not the easiest topic, but for sure, in terms of CDs factory farming
causes the most and is a clear thing to reduce or eliminate.

Hunting and grass-fed cattle seem to cause "few" CDs.... tho a more
important point may be..... factory farms, specifically pigs and chickens
and hens and calves (a side-effect of the dairy industry) clearly restrict
the animals and cause them pain and suffering, and also cause among the
largest amount of CDs...

There are some big differences between animals killed collaterally, and
animals raised to be killed (freedom of choice and movement and associating
with natural family units is a big one), tho maybe the whole food issue
isn't as black and white in *some* ways.... but it sure is clear in others.

I say let's focus on the sure things that cause the most suffering. As for
people who aren't interested in helping, i say leave them be... they'll only
take away and divert your energy and time and effort from more important
things, imo.

Jon

i gathered a lot of CD info on 2 of the links here..
http://www.geocities.com/holist2002/menu.html

"Jon Janssen" > wrote in message ...
>
> "Ipse dixit" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Here's the absolute denial we've all been waiting for.
> > Rick Etter firmly believes that no animals die during
> > the production of his grass fed beef.
> >
> > [start Ipse dixit]
> > > Then tell me how many collateral deaths are associated
> > > with the grass fed beef you eat. After that tell me if you
> > > accept that the *general* production, storage, and
> > > distribution of grass fed beef accumulates any collateral
> > > deaths.
> > ============================
> > Why? The production of my beef promotes no CDs. Period.
> > [end]
> >
> > This is a strange claim indeed for someone who
> > spends hours a day trying to convince everyone
> > their food is responsible for them, and that the
> > electricity they use to post here causes them, but
> > what's even more strange is the silence from Dutch,
> > Jonathan Ball and Usual Suspect while he denies
> > the facts behind his food. As I said earlier, "The
> > CD argument holds a double standard", and Rick
> > has helped me prove it.
>
> The idea has some points

IT HAS A MASSIVE POINT. Don't you get
what's going on here anymore, or something, Jon?
What's the matter with you? Rick has made a huge
blunder by admitting he believes no animals die
during the production of his grass fed beef. Don't
you see the implications of that denial and his sheer
hypocrisy when criticising vegans for not accepting
animals die during the production of their food?

What the **** can you tell me about collateral deaths
in ag that I don't already ****ing know, Jon?

> small scale food production, even animals, does
> cause much less CDs.

yeah yeah yeah.

"Ipse dixit" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Jon Janssen" > wrote in message
...
> >
> > "Ipse dixit" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Here's the absolute denial we've all been waiting for.
> > > Rick Etter firmly believes that no animals die during
> > > the production of his grass fed beef.
> > >
> > > [start Ipse dixit]
> > > > Then tell me how many collateral deaths are associated
> > > > with the grass fed beef you eat. After that tell me if you
> > > > accept that the *general* production, storage, and
> > > > distribution of grass fed beef accumulates any collateral
> > > > deaths.
> > > ============================
> > > Why? The production of my beef promotes no CDs. Period.
> > > [end]
> > >
> > > This is a strange claim indeed for someone who
> > > spends hours a day trying to convince everyone
> > > their food is responsible for them, and that the
> > > electricity they use to post here causes them, but
> > > what's even more strange is the silence from Dutch,
> > > Jonathan Ball and Usual Suspect while he denies
> > > the facts behind his food. As I said earlier, "The
> > > CD argument holds a double standard", and Rick
> > > has helped me prove it.
> >
> > The idea has some points
>
> IT HAS A MASSIVE POINT. Don't you get
> what's going on here anymore, or something, Jon?
> What's the matter with you? Rick has made a huge
> blunder by admitting he believes no animals die
> during the production of his grass fed beef.
-----------------------
The only blunder is yours twit. No CDs occur for the 'production' of the
beef I eat.
You don't even know what you're discussing.


Don't
> you see the implications of that denial and his sheer
> hypocrisy when criticising vegans for not accepting
> animals die during the production of their food?
>
> What the **** can you tell me about collateral deaths
> in ag that I don't already ****ing know, Jon?
==================
Everything. You're terminally stupid when it comes to the subject, killer.

>
> > small scale food production, even animals, does
> > cause much less CDs.
>
> yeah yeah yeah.
=================
Losing again hypocrite?



>
>

"Ipse dixit" > wrote in message
...
> Here's the absolute denial we've all been waiting for.
> Rick Etter firmly believes that no animals die during
> the production of his grass fed beef.
>
> [start Ipse dixit]
> > Then tell me how many collateral deaths are associated
> > with the grass fed beef you eat. After that tell me if you
> > accept that the *general* production, storage, and
> > distribution of grass fed beef accumulates any collateral
> > deaths.
> ============================
> Why? The production of my beef promotes no CDs. Period.
> [end]
>
> This is a strange claim indeed for someone who
> spends hours a day trying to convince everyone
> their food is responsible for them,
========================
Not strange at all killer, true.




and that the
> electricity they use to post here causes them, but
> what's even more strange is the silence from Dutch,
> Jonathan Ball and Usual Suspect while he denies
> the facts behind his food. As I said earlier, "The
> CD argument holds a double standard", and Rick
> has helped me prove it.
==================
Nope. All you've proven is your deceit and dishonsety, and now your
complete ignorance in what you've been asking.
You really are too, too stupid to play killer.


Now, go have that nice blood-drenched dinner, hypocrite...




>
>

"rick etter" > wrote in message ...
> "Ipse dixit" > wrote in message ...
> > "Jon Janssen" > wrote in message ...
> > > "Ipse dixit" > wrote in message ...
> > > >
> > > > Here's the absolute denial we've all been waiting for.
> > > > Rick Etter firmly believes that no animals die during
> > > > the production of his grass fed beef.
> > > >
> > > > [start Ipse dixit]
> > > > > Then tell me how many collateral deaths are associated
> > > > > with the grass fed beef you eat. After that tell me if you
> > > > > accept that the *general* production, storage, and
> > > > > distribution of grass fed beef accumulates any collateral
> > > > > deaths.
> > > > ============================
> > > > Why? The production of my beef promotes no CDs. Period.
> > > > [end]
> > > >
> > > > This is a strange claim indeed for someone who
> > > > spends hours a day trying to convince everyone
> > > > their food is responsible for them, and that the
> > > > electricity they use to post here causes them, but
> > > > what's even more strange is the silence from Dutch,
> > > > Jonathan Ball and Usual Suspect while he denies
> > > > the facts behind his food. As I said earlier, "The
> > > > CD argument holds a double standard", and Rick
> > > > has helped me prove it.
> > >
> > > The idea has some points
> >
> > IT HAS A MASSIVE POINT. Don't you get
> > what's going on here anymore, or something, Jon?
> > What's the matter with you? Rick has made a huge
> > blunder by admitting he believes no animals die
> > during the production of his grass fed beef.
> -----------------------
> The only blunder is yours twit. No CDs occur for the
> 'production' of the beef I eat.

Then the blunder is certainly yours, because all farming,
storage and distribution of foods accrue collateral deaths,
so while you go on denying the antecedent to your grass
fed beef you **** each and everyone on the anti side
who fail to challenge you on this issue as they do with
vegans. Your arrogance as helped me show that the CD
argument holds a double standard. You have been the
key in helping me show the hypocrisy of Jonathan Ball,
Usual Suspect, Dutch and Kevin Brandon.

> You don't even know what you're discussing.
>
Wanna bet, stupid?

> > Don't
> > you see the implications of that denial and his sheer
> > hypocrisy when criticising vegans for not accepting
> > animals die during the production of their food?
> >
Let's look at these implications of your denial.
1) If no animals die during the production of part
of your diet, what's to stop every vegan making
the same claim about a part of their diet. In short:
your argument against vegans as hypocrites for
allegedly denying the antecedent to their food is
in ruins.

2) While going unchallenged by the antis for your
denial of the antecedent, you have unwittingly
shown them all to be holding a bias in their
argument against vegans generally.

3) I'll get round to 3, 4 and 5 later.

"Ipse dixit" > wrote in message
...
>
> "rick etter" > wrote in message
...
> > "Ipse dixit" > wrote in message
...
> > > "Jon Janssen" > wrote in message
...
> > > > "Ipse dixit" > wrote in message
...
> > > > >
> > > > > Here's the absolute denial we've all been waiting for.
> > > > > Rick Etter firmly believes that no animals die during
> > > > > the production of his grass fed beef.
> > > > >
> > > > > [start Ipse dixit]
> > > > > > Then tell me how many collateral deaths are associated
> > > > > > with the grass fed beef you eat. After that tell me if you
> > > > > > accept that the *general* production, storage, and
> > > > > > distribution of grass fed beef accumulates any collateral
> > > > > > deaths.
> > > > > ============================
> > > > > Why? The production of my beef promotes no CDs. Period.
> > > > > [end]
> > > > >
> > > > > This is a strange claim indeed for someone who
> > > > > spends hours a day trying to convince everyone
> > > > > their food is responsible for them, and that the
> > > > > electricity they use to post here causes them, but
> > > > > what's even more strange is the silence from Dutch,
> > > > > Jonathan Ball and Usual Suspect while he denies
> > > > > the facts behind his food. As I said earlier, "The
> > > > > CD argument holds a double standard", and Rick
> > > > > has helped me prove it.
> > > >
> > > > The idea has some points
> > >
> > > IT HAS A MASSIVE POINT. Don't you get
> > > what's going on here anymore, or something, Jon?
> > > What's the matter with you? Rick has made a huge
> > > blunder by admitting he believes no animals die
> > > during the production of his grass fed beef.
> > -----------------------
> > The only blunder is yours twit. No CDs occur for the
> > 'production' of the beef I eat.
>
> Then the blunder is certainly yours, because all farming,
> storage and distribution of foods accrue collateral deaths,
> so while you go on denying the antecedent to your grass
> fed beef you **** each and everyone on the anti side
> who fail to challenge you on this issue as they do with
> vegans. Your arrogance as helped me show that the CD
> argument holds a double standard. You have been the
> key in helping me show the hypocrisy of Jonathan Ball,
> Usual Suspect, Dutch and Kevin Brandon.
=======================
Nope. The ignorance is akll yours killer, and you've now apparently
realized it besuae you
have now changed your question. Why is that?
The point is though, that just like I claimed, vegans want to discuss
anything
*except* their personal diet and their personal ways of improving. That's
why you have to dishonestly move the goalposts over to some 'general' diet
you think others are following. *you* the vegan loon has no impact on any
body elses diet.
*You* have complete control over only your own, but you are too lazy,
ignorant, unethical,
and dishonest to do anything but rant about others. It's aprt of your
makeup that really just
wants to cause unnecessary animal death and suffering. Apparenetly just for
your amusement.


>
> > You don't even know what you're discussing.
> >
> Wanna bet, stupid?
=================
I've already won that one, killer.

>
> > > Don't
> > > you see the implications of that denial and his sheer
> > > hypocrisy when criticising vegans for not accepting
> > > animals die during the production of their food?
> > >
> Let's look at these implications of your denial.
> 1) If no animals die during the production of part
> of your diet, what's to stop every vegan making
> the same claim about a part of their diet.
=============================
Because it would be a ly, unless they hand grew *everything* they eat.
You don't. (You especially don't) No vegan here on usenet does either.



In short:
> your argument against vegans as hypocrites for
> allegedly denying the antecedent to their food is
> in ruins.
==================
Nope, your dishonesty sees to it that you fail in any attempt you make to
shift your
consequeces onto anybody but yourself, killer.

>
> 2) While going unchallenged by the antis for your
> denial of the antecedent, you have unwittingly
> shown them all to be holding a bias in their
> argument against vegans generally.
>
> 3) I'll get round to 3, 4 and 5 later.
=====================
No, you've already lost. Adding to your ignorant spew won't sace you now.
Your deceit and dishonesty have already been revealed..



Now, go have that nice blood-drenched dinner, hypocrite...

>
>

"rick etter" > wrote in message ...
> "Ipse dixit" > wrote in message ...
> > "rick etter" > wrote in message ...
> > > "Ipse dixit" > wrote in message ...
> > > > "Jon Janssen" > wrote in message ...
> > > > > "Ipse dixit" > wrote in message ...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Here's the absolute denial we've all been waiting for.
> > > > > > Rick Etter firmly believes that no animals die during
> > > > > > the production of his grass fed beef.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [start Ipse dixit]
> > > > > > > Then tell me how many collateral deaths are associated
> > > > > > > with the grass fed beef you eat. After that tell me if you
> > > > > > > accept that the *general* production, storage, and
> > > > > > > distribution of grass fed beef accumulates any collateral
> > > > > > > deaths.
> > > > > > ============================
> > > > > > Why? The production of my beef promotes no CDs. Period.
> > > > > > [end]
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This is a strange claim indeed for someone who
> > > > > > spends hours a day trying to convince everyone
> > > > > > their food is responsible for them, and that the
> > > > > > electricity they use to post here causes them, but
> > > > > > what's even more strange is the silence from Dutch,
> > > > > > Jonathan Ball and Usual Suspect while he denies
> > > > > > the facts behind his food. As I said earlier, "The
> > > > > > CD argument holds a double standard", and Rick
> > > > > > has helped me prove it.
> > > > >
> > > > > The idea has some points
> > > >
> > > > IT HAS A MASSIVE POINT. Don't you get
> > > > what's going on here anymore, or something, Jon?
> > > > What's the matter with you? Rick has made a huge
> > > > blunder by admitting he believes no animals die
> > > > during the production of his grass fed beef.
> > > -----------------------
> > > The only blunder is yours twit. No CDs occur for the
> > > 'production' of the beef I eat.
> >
> > Then the blunder is certainly yours, because all farming,
> > storage and distribution of foods accrue collateral deaths,
> > so while you go on denying the antecedent to your grass
> > fed beef you **** each and everyone on the anti side
> > who fail to challenge you on this issue as they do with
> > vegans. Your arrogance as helped me show that the CD
> > argument holds a double standard. You have been the
> > key in helping me show the hypocrisy of Jonathan Ball,
> > Usual Suspect, Dutch and Kevin Brandon.
> =======================
> Nope.

Maybe they don't mind you making hypocrites of them,
so you might be right on this point.

"rick etter" > wrote in message ...
> "Ipse dixit" > wrote in message ...
> >
> > Here's the absolute denial we've all been waiting for.
> > Rick Etter firmly believes that no animals die during
> > the production of his grass fed beef.
> >
> > [start Ipse dixit]
> > > Then tell me how many collateral deaths are associated
> > > with the grass fed beef you eat. After that tell me if you
> > > accept that the *general* production, storage, and
> > > distribution of grass fed beef accumulates any collateral
> > > deaths.
> > ============================
> > Why? The production of my beef promotes no CDs. Period.
> > [end]
> >
> > This is a strange claim indeed for someone who
> > spends hours a day trying to convince everyone
> > their food is responsible for them,
> ========================
> Not strange at all killer, true.
>
It's certainly hypocritical, because if you can claim
a part in your diet doesn't accumulate collateral
deaths, then you have no room to criticise vegans
for thinking the same.
>
> > and that the
> > electricity they use to post here causes them, but
> > what's even more strange is the silence from Dutch,
> > Jonathan Ball and Usual Suspect while he denies
> > the facts behind his food. As I said earlier, "The
> > CD argument holds a double standard", and Rick
> > has helped me prove it.
> ==================
> Nope.

Does this magical grass fed beef you eat slaughter
itself and then deliver itself to the supermarkets in
little packaged portions while dead? Does it do
all this by itself without the use of electricity or
transport?

"Ipse dixit" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Jon Janssen" > wrote in message
...
> >
> > "Ipse dixit" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Here's the absolute denial we've all been waiting for.
> > > Rick Etter firmly believes that no animals die during
> > > the production of his grass fed beef.
> > >
> > > [start Ipse dixit]
> > > > Then tell me how many collateral deaths are associated
> > > > with the grass fed beef you eat. After that tell me if you
> > > > accept that the *general* production, storage, and
> > > > distribution of grass fed beef accumulates any collateral
> > > > deaths.
> > > ============================
> > > Why? The production of my beef promotes no CDs. Period.
> > > [end]
> > >
> > > This is a strange claim indeed for someone who
> > > spends hours a day trying to convince everyone
> > > their food is responsible for them, and that the
> > > electricity they use to post here causes them, but
> > > what's even more strange is the silence from Dutch,
> > > Jonathan Ball and Usual Suspect while he denies
> > > the facts behind his food. As I said earlier, "The
> > > CD argument holds a double standard", and Rick
> > > has helped me prove it.
> >
> > The idea has some points
>
> IT HAS A MASSIVE POINT. Don't you get
> what's going on here anymore, or something, Jon?
> What's the matter with you? Rick has made a huge
> blunder by admitting he believes no animals die
> during the production of his grass fed beef. Don't
> you see the implications of that denial and his sheer
> hypocrisy when criticising vegans for not accepting
> animals die during the production of their food?
>
> What the **** can you tell me about collateral deaths
> in ag that I don't already ****ing know, Jon?
>
> > small scale food production, even animals, does
> > cause much less CDs.
>
> yeah yeah yeah.
>
>
Obviously Jon is another one to add to your 'Hypocrite List':-)

"Ray" > wrote in message ...
> "Ipse dixit" > wrote in message ...
> > "Jon Janssen" > wrote in message ...
> > > "Ipse dixit" > wrote in message ...
> > > >
> > > > Here's the absolute denial we've all been waiting for.
> > > > Rick Etter firmly believes that no animals die during
> > > > the production of his grass fed beef.
> > > >
> > > > [start Ipse dixit]
> > > > > Then tell me how many collateral deaths are associated
> > > > > with the grass fed beef you eat. After that tell me if you
> > > > > accept that the *general* production, storage, and
> > > > > distribution of grass fed beef accumulates any collateral
> > > > > deaths.
> > > > ============================
> > > > Why? The production of my beef promotes no CDs. Period.
> > > > [end]
> > > >
> > > > This is a strange claim indeed for someone who
> > > > spends hours a day trying to convince everyone
> > > > their food is responsible for them, and that the
> > > > electricity they use to post here causes them, but
> > > > what's even more strange is the silence from Dutch,
> > > > Jonathan Ball and Usual Suspect while he denies
> > > > the facts behind his food. As I said earlier, "The
> > > > CD argument holds a double standard", and Rick
> > > > has helped me prove it.
> > >
> > > The idea has some points
> >
> > IT HAS A MASSIVE POINT. Don't you get
> > what's going on here anymore, or something, Jon?
> > What's the matter with you? Rick has made a huge
> > blunder by admitting he believes no animals die
> > during the production of his grass fed beef. Don't
> > you see the implications of that denial and his sheer
> > hypocrisy when criticising vegans for not accepting
> > animals die during the production of their food?
> >
> > What the **** can you tell me about collateral deaths
> > in ag that I don't already ****ing know, Jon?
> >
> > > small scale food production, even animals, does
> > > cause much less CDs.
> >
> > yeah yeah yeah.
> >
> Obviously Jon is another one to add to your 'Hypocrite List':-)
>
Everyone is a potential candidate, Ray, but unlike you,
Jon's support for animals and his reasons for participating
here have never been in doubt. I bit his head off because
he stupidly took the emphasis away from a huge milestone
I spent a lot of time developing: getting Etter to make a
statement which would prove the CD argument has a
double standard.

He should have picked another thread to post his views
on the ways to reduce the farmers CDs, or make another
one of his own rather than divert my attack on Rick away
with a bunch of crap on the issue which I already knew
about. That's why I asked, "Don't you get what's going on
here anymore, or something, Jon? What's the matter with
you?" He sometimes misses some of the more subtle
going's-on which are particular and unique to a.a.e.v. and
t.p.a.

"Ipse dixit" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Ray" > wrote in message
...
> > "Ipse dixit" > wrote in message
...
> > > "Jon Janssen" > wrote in message
...
> > > > "Ipse dixit" > wrote in message
...
> > > > >
> > > > > Here's the absolute denial we've all been waiting for.
> > > > > Rick Etter firmly believes that no animals die during
> > > > > the production of his grass fed beef.
> > > > >
> > > > > [start Ipse dixit]
> > > > > > Then tell me how many collateral deaths are associated
> > > > > > with the grass fed beef you eat. After that tell me if you
> > > > > > accept that the *general* production, storage, and
> > > > > > distribution of grass fed beef accumulates any collateral
> > > > > > deaths.
> > > > > ============================
> > > > > Why? The production of my beef promotes no CDs. Period.
> > > > > [end]
> > > > >
> > > > > This is a strange claim indeed for someone who
> > > > > spends hours a day trying to convince everyone
> > > > > their food is responsible for them, and that the
> > > > > electricity they use to post here causes them, but
> > > > > what's even more strange is the silence from Dutch,
> > > > > Jonathan Ball and Usual Suspect while he denies
> > > > > the facts behind his food. As I said earlier, "The
> > > > > CD argument holds a double standard", and Rick
> > > > > has helped me prove it.
> > > >
> > > > The idea has some points
> > >
> > > IT HAS A MASSIVE POINT. Don't you get
> > > what's going on here anymore, or something, Jon?
> > > What's the matter with you? Rick has made a huge
> > > blunder by admitting he believes no animals die
> > > during the production of his grass fed beef. Don't
> > > you see the implications of that denial and his sheer
> > > hypocrisy when criticising vegans for not accepting
> > > animals die during the production of their food?
> > >
> > > What the **** can you tell me about collateral deaths
> > > in ag that I don't already ****ing know, Jon?
> > >
> > > > small scale food production, even animals, does
> > > > cause much less CDs.
> > >
> > > yeah yeah yeah.
> > >
> > Obviously Jon is another one to add to your 'Hypocrite List':-)
> >
> Everyone is a potential candidate, Ray, but unlike you,
> Jon's support for animals and his reasons for participating
> here have never been in doubt. I bit his head off because
> he stupidly took the emphasis away from a huge milestone
> I spent a lot of time developing: getting Etter to make a
> statement which would prove the CD argument has a
> double standard.
>
> He should have picked another thread to post his views
> on the ways to reduce the farmers CDs, or make another
> one of his own rather than divert my attack on Rick away
> with a bunch of crap on the issue which I already knew
> about. That's why I asked, "Don't you get what's going on
> here anymore, or something, Jon? What's the matter with
> you?" He sometimes misses some of the more subtle
> going's-on which are particular and unique to a.a.e.v. and
> t.p.a.
>-----------No snippage-----------
>
Derek,
I hope you consider the following as constructive, it is meant that way.

[Everyone is a potential candidate] A candidate for what Derek? Someone who
does not share your views 100% and therefore has to be branded a hypocrite?

In recent weeks you have tried to go through us all like a dose of salts,
you have made a point and that 'only' point is that 'Derek' is totally
unapproachable, a man who has lost all sense of reason. Even now you have
taken a side swipe at me [But unlike you, Jon's support for animals and his
reasons for participating here have never been in doubt].

I don't think any AR poster, other than yourself, has ever doubted my
sincere wish for a better deal for animals in this lousy world. Only a
couple of days ago I received an e-mail from Jon taking me to task over some
remarks I had previously made about vivisectionists. His comments were
constructive and offered in his usual polite and diplomatic manner. I still
have my reservations about the subject, but never the less, he made me
think. That's the way it should be done Derek.

You make much of your debate with Rick Etter, but ask yourself. This time
last year, would you have even bothered to try and 'win one over' with the
likes of Rick?

Fact is that Rick and myself are the only two silly buggers daft enough to
bother with you.

The 'AR' side of the group are all killers and to a certain extent
hypocrites, and that unfortunately includes you.

Wake up to that fact Derek, set your parameters at a decent level and stop
trying to be the moderator of the 'AR' faction of the group.

I do not doubt for one second that you will take on board anything I have
said, but at least I have tried.

Ray

You really are just too stupid, and too easy.


Go have that nice blood-drenched dinner, killer...



"Ipse dixit" > wrote in message
...
>
> "rick etter" > wrote in message
...
> > "Ipse dixit" > wrote in message
...
> > > "rick etter" > wrote in message
...
> > > > "Ipse dixit" > wrote in message
...
> > > > > "Jon Janssen" > wrote in message
...
> > > > > > "Ipse dixit" > wrote in message
...
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Here's the absolute denial we've all been waiting for.
> > > > > > > Rick Etter firmly believes that no animals die during
> > > > > > > the production of his grass fed beef.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > [start Ipse dixit]
> > > > > > > > Then tell me how many collateral deaths are associated
> > > > > > > > with the grass fed beef you eat. After that tell me if you
> > > > > > > > accept that the *general* production, storage, and
> > > > > > > > distribution of grass fed beef accumulates any collateral
> > > > > > > > deaths.
> > > > > > > ============================
> > > > > > > Why? The production of my beef promotes no CDs. Period.
> > > > > > > [end]
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > This is a strange claim indeed for someone who
> > > > > > > spends hours a day trying to convince everyone
> > > > > > > their food is responsible for them, and that the
> > > > > > > electricity they use to post here causes them, but
> > > > > > > what's even more strange is the silence from Dutch,
> > > > > > > Jonathan Ball and Usual Suspect while he denies
> > > > > > > the facts behind his food. As I said earlier, "The
> > > > > > > CD argument holds a double standard", and Rick
> > > > > > > has helped me prove it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The idea has some points
> > > > >
> > > > > IT HAS A MASSIVE POINT. Don't you get
> > > > > what's going on here anymore, or something, Jon?
> > > > > What's the matter with you? Rick has made a huge
> > > > > blunder by admitting he believes no animals die
> > > > > during the production of his grass fed beef.
> > > > -----------------------
> > > > The only blunder is yours twit. No CDs occur for the
> > > > 'production' of the beef I eat.
> > >
> > > Then the blunder is certainly yours, because all farming,
> > > storage and distribution of foods accrue collateral deaths,
> > > so while you go on denying the antecedent to your grass
> > > fed beef you **** each and everyone on the anti side
> > > who fail to challenge you on this issue as they do with
> > > vegans. Your arrogance as helped me show that the CD
> > > argument holds a double standard. You have been the
> > > key in helping me show the hypocrisy of Jonathan Ball,
> > > Usual Suspect, Dutch and Kevin Brandon.
> > =======================
> > Nope.
>
> Maybe they don't mind you making hypocrites of them,
> so you might be right on this point.
>
>

"Ray" > wrote in message ...
> "Ipse dixit" > wrote in message ...

> > > > yeah yeah yeah.
> > > >
> > > Obviously Jon is another one to add to your 'Hypocrite List':-)
> > >
> > Everyone is a potential candidate, Ray, but unlike you,
> > Jon's support for animals and his reasons for participating
> > here have never been in doubt. I bit his head off because
> > he stupidly took the emphasis away from a huge milestone
> > I spent a lot of time developing: getting Etter to make a
> > statement which would prove the CD argument has a
> > double standard.
> >
> > He should have picked another thread to post his views
> > on the ways to reduce the farmers CDs, or make another
> > one of his own rather than divert my attack on Rick away
> > with a bunch of crap on the issue which I already knew
> > about. That's why I asked, "Don't you get what's going on
> > here anymore, or something, Jon? What's the matter with
> > you?" He sometimes misses some of the more subtle
> > going's-on which are particular and unique to a.a.e.v. and
> > t.p.a.
> >-----------No snippage-----------
> >
> Derek,
> I hope you consider the following as constructive, it is meant that way.
>
> [Everyone is a potential candidate] A candidate for what Derek? Someone who
> does not share your views 100% and therefore has to be branded a hypocrite?
>
No, a candidate to be added to my list of who I
regard as hypocrites. There are many here who
I disagree with that aren't on that list. For example;

"Murdering Mercer holds the principle that 1 rabbit
should die if it saves 1000 human lives, and this is
exactly the same principle held by Zakhar. The huge
difference between Zakhar and Mercer, is that
Mercer has put his principles into practice and
spent his entire life studying real damn hard to
perfect a way to do it as painlessly as possible,
using the least amount of animals. I don't agree
with Zakhar or Mercer's principles, but at least
Mercer has the guts to stand by his and argue his
position somewhat openly. I can cope with that,
but what annoys me more than anything is a
coward who would willingly allow animals to
die according to his own acceptable ratio while
criticising others who do it professionally,
especially if they're also claiming to be an ARA,
because it makes the rest of us who don't accept
any ratio at all equally hypocritical if we defend
his double standard as you do."
Derek 2003-10-08

> In recent weeks you have tried to go through us all like a dose of salts,

So what? Unlike you, I'm free to take issue with
whoever I like, whatever their label. Deal with it.

"Ipse dixit" > wrote in message
...
>
> "rick etter" > wrote in message
...
> > "Ipse dixit" > wrote in message
...
> > >
> > > Here's the absolute denial we've all been waiting for.
> > > Rick Etter firmly believes that no animals die during
> > > the production of his grass fed beef.
> > >
> > > [start Ipse dixit]
> > > > Then tell me how many collateral deaths are associated
> > > > with the grass fed beef you eat. After that tell me if you
> > > > accept that the *general* production, storage, and
> > > > distribution of grass fed beef accumulates any collateral
> > > > deaths.
> > > ============================
> > > Why? The production of my beef promotes no CDs. Period.
> > > [end]
> > >
> > > This is a strange claim indeed for someone who
> > > spends hours a day trying to convince everyone
> > > their food is responsible for them,
> > ========================
> > Not strange at all killer, true.
> >
> It's certainly hypocritical,
====================
No it's not. Ive never denied that CDs take place for my diet, or that I am
not complicit.
*YOU* have. Every post, hypocrite...


because if you can claim
> a part in your diet doesn't accumulate collateral
> deaths, then you have no room to criticise vegans
> for thinking the same.
====================
Yes, because your diet does. I've never claimed that every bit of every
vegans diet causes CDs.
Yours does, because you prove here on usenet that you care nothing about
causing unnecessary animal death and suffering. You even dismiss your
complicity and claim, fraudulently, that your hands are somehow clean.
Using your twisted logic, *none* of us are responsible for CDs. It's all
somebody elses fault. There is *aways* room to criticize you twits. You're
about the most ignorant, dogmatic poster on usenet.



> >
> > > and that the
> > > electricity they use to post here causes them, but
> > > what's even more strange is the silence from Dutch,
> > > Jonathan Ball and Usual Suspect while he denies
> > > the facts behind his food. As I said earlier, "The
> > > CD argument holds a double standard", and Rick
> > > has helped me prove it.
> > ==================
> > Nope.
>
> Does this magical grass fed beef you eat slaughter
> itself and then deliver itself to the supermarkets in
> little packaged portions while dead? Does it do
> all this by itself without the use of electricity or
> transport?
============================
Nope. The production of the beef i eat causes no CDs.
Man, you're as stupid as I thought, even after I almost thought yesterday
that you had caught on to your idiotic question. Guess not, I should have
known you'd always be terminally ignorant.

Your continued unethical, unannotated snipping of posts noted, hypocrite...

Go have that nice blood-drenched dinner, killer...
>
>
>

"Ipse dixit" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Ray" > wrote in message
...
> > "Ipse dixit" > wrote in message
...
>
> > > > > yeah yeah yeah.
> > > > >
> > > > Obviously Jon is another one to add to your 'Hypocrite List':-)
> > > >
> > > Everyone is a potential candidate, Ray, but unlike you,
> > > Jon's support for animals and his reasons for participating
> > > here have never been in doubt. I bit his head off because
> > > he stupidly took the emphasis away from a huge milestone
> > > I spent a lot of time developing: getting Etter to make a
> > > statement which would prove the CD argument has a
> > > double standard.
> > >
> > > He should have picked another thread to post his views
> > > on the ways to reduce the farmers CDs, or make another
> > > one of his own rather than divert my attack on Rick away
> > > with a bunch of crap on the issue which I already knew
> > > about. That's why I asked, "Don't you get what's going on
> > > here anymore, or something, Jon? What's the matter with
> > > you?" He sometimes misses some of the more subtle
> > > going's-on which are particular and unique to a.a.e.v. and
> > > t.p.a.
> > >-----------No snippage-----------
> > >
> > Derek,
> > I hope you consider the following as constructive, it is meant that way.
> >
> > [Everyone is a potential candidate] A candidate for what Derek? Someone
who
> > does not share your views 100% and therefore has to be branded a
hypocrite?
> >
> No, a candidate to be added to my list of who I
> regard as hypocrites. There are many here who
> I disagree with that aren't on that list. For example;
>
> "Murdering Mercer holds the principle that 1 rabbit
> should die if it saves 1000 human lives, and this is
> exactly the same principle held by Zakhar. The huge
> difference between Zakhar and Mercer, is that
> Mercer has put his principles into practice and
> spent his entire life studying real damn hard to
> perfect a way to do it as painlessly as possible,
> using the least amount of animals. I don't agree
> with Zakhar or Mercer's principles, but at least
> Mercer has the guts to stand by his and argue his
> position somewhat openly. I can cope with that,
> but what annoys me more than anything is a
> coward who would willingly allow animals to
> die according to his own acceptable ratio while
> criticising others who do it professionally,
> especially if they're also claiming to be an ARA,
> because it makes the rest of us who don't accept
> any ratio at all equally hypocritical if we defend
> his double standard as you do."
> Derek 2003-10-08
>
> > In recent weeks you have tried to go through us all like a dose of
salts,
>
> So what? Unlike you, I'm free to take issue with
> whoever I like, whatever their label. Deal with it.

Right, I'll make a good start - **** you and all your stupid attempts to
gain promininence on this Newsgroup. You have failed and you are a complete
and utter disaster zone for AR posters.

Deal with that council house cleric.

You ****ing mercer bumboy.
>
>

"Ray" > wrote in message ...
> "Ipse dixit" > wrote in message ...
> > "Ray" > wrote in message ...
> > > "Ipse dixit" > wrote in message ...
> >
> > > > > > yeah yeah yeah.
> > > > > >
> > > > > Obviously Jon is another one to add to your 'Hypocrite List':-)
> > > > >
> > > > Everyone is a potential candidate, Ray, but unlike you,
> > > > Jon's support for animals and his reasons for participating
> > > > here have never been in doubt. I bit his head off because
> > > > he stupidly took the emphasis away from a huge milestone
> > > > I spent a lot of time developing: getting Etter to make a
> > > > statement which would prove the CD argument has a
> > > > double standard.
> > > >
> > > > He should have picked another thread to post his views
> > > > on the ways to reduce the farmers CDs, or make another
> > > > one of his own rather than divert my attack on Rick away
> > > > with a bunch of crap on the issue which I already knew
> > > > about. That's why I asked, "Don't you get what's going on
> > > > here anymore, or something, Jon? What's the matter with
> > > > you?" He sometimes misses some of the more subtle
> > > > going's-on which are particular and unique to a.a.e.v. and
> > > > t.p.a.
> > > >-----------No snippage-----------
> > > >
> > > Derek,
> > > I hope you consider the following as constructive, it is
> > > meant that way.
> > >
> > > [Everyone is a potential candidate] A candidate for what
> > > Derek? Someone who does not share your views 100%
> > > and therefore has to be branded a hypocrite?
> > >
> > No, a candidate to be added to my list of who I
> > regard as hypocrites. There are many here who
> > I disagree with that aren't on that list. For example;
> >
> > "Murdering Mercer holds the principle that 1 rabbit
> > should die if it saves 1000 human lives, and this is
> > exactly the same principle held by Zakhar. The huge
> > difference between Zakhar and Mercer, is that
> > Mercer has put his principles into practice and
> > spent his entire life studying real damn hard to
> > perfect a way to do it as painlessly as possible,
> > using the least amount of animals. I don't agree
> > with Zakhar or Mercer's principles, but at least
> > Mercer has the guts to stand by his and argue his
> > position somewhat openly. I can cope with that,
> > but what annoys me more than anything is a
> > coward who would willingly allow animals to
> > die according to his own acceptable ratio while
> > criticising others who do it professionally,
> > especially if they're also claiming to be an ARA,
> > because it makes the rest of us who don't accept
> > any ratio at all equally hypocritical if we defend
> > his double standard as you do."
> > Derek 2003-10-08
> >
> > > In recent weeks you have tried to go through us
> > > all like a dose of salts,
> >
> > So what? Unlike you, I'm free to take issue with
> > whoever I like, whatever their label. Deal with it.
>
> Right, I'll make a good start - **** you and all your
> stupid attempts to gain promininence on this Newsgroup.
> You have failed and you are a complete and utter disaster
> zone for AR posters.
>
Was that little outburst supposed to be "a good start" in
dealing with me?

> Deal with that council house cleric.
>
> You ****ing mercer bumboy.

It's Zakhar and yourself that supports Mercer's ethic
on using animals for research. Not me

"Ipse dixit" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Ray" > wrote in message
...
> > "Ipse dixit" > wrote in message
...
> > > "Ray" > wrote in message
...
> > > > "Ipse dixit" > wrote in message
...
> > >
> > > > > > > yeah yeah yeah.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > Obviously Jon is another one to add to your 'Hypocrite List':-)
> > > > > >
> > > > > Everyone is a potential candidate, Ray, but unlike you,
> > > > > Jon's support for animals and his reasons for participating
> > > > > here have never been in doubt. I bit his head off because
> > > > > he stupidly took the emphasis away from a huge milestone
> > > > > I spent a lot of time developing: getting Etter to make a
> > > > > statement which would prove the CD argument has a
> > > > > double standard.
> > > > >
> > > > > He should have picked another thread to post his views
> > > > > on the ways to reduce the farmers CDs, or make another
> > > > > one of his own rather than divert my attack on Rick away
> > > > > with a bunch of crap on the issue which I already knew
> > > > > about. That's why I asked, "Don't you get what's going on
> > > > > here anymore, or something, Jon? What's the matter with
> > > > > you?" He sometimes misses some of the more subtle
> > > > > going's-on which are particular and unique to a.a.e.v. and
> > > > > t.p.a.
> > > > >-----------No snippage-----------
> > > > >
> > > > Derek,
> > > > I hope you consider the following as constructive, it is
> > > > meant that way.
> > > >
> > > > [Everyone is a potential candidate] A candidate for what
> > > > Derek? Someone who does not share your views 100%
> > > > and therefore has to be branded a hypocrite?
> > > >
> > > No, a candidate to be added to my list of who I
> > > regard as hypocrites. There are many here who
> > > I disagree with that aren't on that list. For example;
> > >
> > > "Murdering Mercer holds the principle that 1 rabbit
> > > should die if it saves 1000 human lives, and this is
> > > exactly the same principle held by Zakhar. The huge
> > > difference between Zakhar and Mercer, is that
> > > Mercer has put his principles into practice and
> > > spent his entire life studying real damn hard to
> > > perfect a way to do it as painlessly as possible,
> > > using the least amount of animals. I don't agree
> > > with Zakhar or Mercer's principles, but at least
> > > Mercer has the guts to stand by his and argue his
> > > position somewhat openly. I can cope with that,
> > > but what annoys me more than anything is a
> > > coward who would willingly allow animals to
> > > die according to his own acceptable ratio while
> > > criticising others who do it professionally,
> > > especially if they're also claiming to be an ARA,
> > > because it makes the rest of us who don't accept
> > > any ratio at all equally hypocritical if we defend
> > > his double standard as you do."
> > > Derek 2003-10-08
> > >
> > > > In recent weeks you have tried to go through us
> > > > all like a dose of salts,
> > >
> > > So what? Unlike you, I'm free to take issue with
> > > whoever I like, whatever their label. Deal with it.
> >
> > Right, I'll make a good start - **** you and all your
> > stupid attempts to gain promininence on this Newsgroup.
> > You have failed and you are a complete and utter disaster
> > zone for AR posters.
> >
> Was that little outburst supposed to be "a good start" in
> dealing with me?

I don't have to deal with you any longer. Put your opinion to the vote:-)
>
> > Deal with that council house cleric.
> >
> > You ****ing mercer bumboy.
>
> It's Zakhar and yourself that supports Mercer's ethic
> on using animals for research. Not me

OK I'm game.
>
>
>

"rick etter" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Ipse dixit" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "rick etter" > wrote in message
> ...
> > > "Ipse dixit" > wrote in message
> ...
> > > >
> > > > Here's the absolute denial we've all been waiting for.
> > > > Rick Etter firmly believes that no animals die during
> > > > the production of his grass fed beef.
> > > >
> > > > [start Ipse dixit]
> > > > > Then tell me how many collateral deaths are associated
> > > > > with the grass fed beef you eat. After that tell me if you
> > > > > accept that the *general* production, storage, and
> > > > > distribution of grass fed beef accumulates any collateral
> > > > > deaths.
> > > > ============================
> > > > Why? The production of my beef promotes no CDs. Period.
> > > > [end]
> > > >
> > > > This is a strange claim indeed for someone who
> > > > spends hours a day trying to convince everyone
> > > > their food is responsible for them,
> > > ========================
> > > Not strange at all killer, true.
> > >
> > It's certainly hypocritical,
> ====================
> No it's not. Ive never denied that CDs take place for my diet, or that I
am
> not complicit.
> *YOU* have. Every post, hypocrite...
>
>
> because if you can claim
> > a part in your diet doesn't accumulate collateral
> > deaths, then you have no room to criticise vegans
> > for thinking the same.
> ====================
> Yes, because your diet does. I've never claimed that every bit of every
> vegans diet causes CDs.
> Yours does, because you prove here on usenet that you care nothing about
> causing unnecessary animal death and suffering. You even dismiss your
> complicity and claim, fraudulently, that your hands are somehow clean.
> Using your twisted logic, *none* of us are responsible for CDs. It's all
> somebody elses fault. There is *aways* room to criticize you twits.
You're
> about the most ignorant, dogmatic poster on usenet.
>
>
>
> > >
> > > > and that the
> > > > electricity they use to post here causes them, but
> > > > what's even more strange is the silence from Dutch,
> > > > Jonathan Ball and Usual Suspect while he denies
> > > > the facts behind his food. As I said earlier, "The
> > > > CD argument holds a double standard", and Rick
> > > > has helped me prove it.
> > > ==================
> > > Nope.
> >
> > Does this magical grass fed beef you eat slaughter
> > itself and then deliver itself to the supermarkets in
> > little packaged portions while dead? Does it do
> > all this by itself without the use of electricity or
> > transport?
> ============================
> Nope. The production of the beef i eat causes no CDs.
> Man, you're as stupid as I thought, even after I almost thought yesterday
> that you had caught on to your idiotic question. Guess not, I should have
> known you'd always be terminally ignorant.
>
> Your continued unethical, unannotated snipping of posts noted,
hypocrite...
>
> Go have that nice blood-drenched dinner, killer...

I don't agree with you on almost anything Rick, but the snippage was unfair.
> >
> >
> >
>
>

"Ray" > wrote in message
...
>
> "rick etter" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Ipse dixit" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > > "rick etter" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > > "Ipse dixit" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > > >
> > > > > Here's the absolute denial we've all been waiting for.
> > > > > Rick Etter firmly believes that no animals die during
> > > > > the production of his grass fed beef.
> > > > >
> > > > > [start Ipse dixit]
> > > > > > Then tell me how many collateral deaths are associated
> > > > > > with the grass fed beef you eat. After that tell me if you
> > > > > > accept that the *general* production, storage, and
> > > > > > distribution of grass fed beef accumulates any collateral
> > > > > > deaths.
> > > > > ============================
> > > > > Why? The production of my beef promotes no CDs. Period.
> > > > > [end]
> > > > >
> > > > > This is a strange claim indeed for someone who
> > > > > spends hours a day trying to convince everyone
> > > > > their food is responsible for them,
> > > > ========================
> > > > Not strange at all killer, true.
> > > >
> > > It's certainly hypocritical,
> > ====================
> > No it's not. Ive never denied that CDs take place for my diet, or that
I
> am
> > not complicit.
> > *YOU* have. Every post, hypocrite...
> >
> >
> > because if you can claim
> > > a part in your diet doesn't accumulate collateral
> > > deaths, then you have no room to criticise vegans
> > > for thinking the same.
> > ====================
> > Yes, because your diet does. I've never claimed that every bit of every
> > vegans diet causes CDs.
> > Yours does, because you prove here on usenet that you care nothing about
> > causing unnecessary animal death and suffering. You even dismiss your
> > complicity and claim, fraudulently, that your hands are somehow clean.
> > Using your twisted logic, *none* of us are responsible for CDs. It's
all
> > somebody elses fault. There is *aways* room to criticize you twits.
> You're
> > about the most ignorant, dogmatic poster on usenet.
> >
> >
> >
> > > >
> > > > > and that the
> > > > > electricity they use to post here causes them, but
> > > > > what's even more strange is the silence from Dutch,
> > > > > Jonathan Ball and Usual Suspect while he denies
> > > > > the facts behind his food. As I said earlier, "The
> > > > > CD argument holds a double standard", and Rick
> > > > > has helped me prove it.
> > > > ==================
> > > > Nope.
> > >
> > > Does this magical grass fed beef you eat slaughter
> > > itself and then deliver itself to the supermarkets in
> > > little packaged portions while dead? Does it do
> > > all this by itself without the use of electricity or
> > > transport?
> > ============================
> > Nope. The production of the beef i eat causes no CDs.
> > Man, you're as stupid as I thought, even after I almost thought
yesterday
> > that you had caught on to your idiotic question. Guess not, I should
have
> > known you'd always be terminally ignorant.
> >
> > Your continued unethical, unannotated snipping of posts noted,
> hypocrite...
> >
> > Go have that nice blood-drenched dinner, killer...
>
> I don't agree with you on almost anything Rick, but the snippage was
unfair.
=====================
What's really, really great about it was that while he's doing that he's
complaining to Dutch!

"Ray" > wrote in message ...
> "Ipse dixit" > wrote in message ...
> > "Ray" > wrote in message ...
> > > "Ipse dixit" > wrote in message ...
> > > > "Ray" > wrote in message ...
> > > > > "Ipse dixit" > wrote in message ...
> > > >
> > > > > > > > yeah yeah yeah.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Obviously Jon is another one to add to your 'Hypocrite List':-)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > Everyone is a potential candidate, Ray, but unlike you,
> > > > > > Jon's support for animals and his reasons for participating
> > > > > > here have never been in doubt. I bit his head off because
> > > > > > he stupidly took the emphasis away from a huge milestone
> > > > > > I spent a lot of time developing: getting Etter to make a
> > > > > > statement which would prove the CD argument has a
> > > > > > double standard.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > He should have picked another thread to post his views
> > > > > > on the ways to reduce the farmers CDs, or make another
> > > > > > one of his own rather than divert my attack on Rick away
> > > > > > with a bunch of crap on the issue which I already knew
> > > > > > about. That's why I asked, "Don't you get what's going on
> > > > > > here anymore, or something, Jon? What's the matter with
> > > > > > you?" He sometimes misses some of the more subtle
> > > > > > going's-on which are particular and unique to a.a.e.v. and
> > > > > > t.p.a.
> > > > > >-----------No snippage-----------
> > > > > >
> > > > > Derek,
> > > > > I hope you consider the following as constructive, it is
> > > > > meant that way.
> > > > >
> > > > > [Everyone is a potential candidate] A candidate for what
> > > > > Derek? Someone who does not share your views 100%
> > > > > and therefore has to be branded a hypocrite?
> > > > >
> > > > No, a candidate to be added to my list of who I
> > > > regard as hypocrites. There are many here who
> > > > I disagree with that aren't on that list. For example;
> > > >
> > > > "Murdering Mercer holds the principle that 1 rabbit
> > > > should die if it saves 1000 human lives, and this is
> > > > exactly the same principle held by Zakhar. The huge
> > > > difference between Zakhar and Mercer, is that
> > > > Mercer has put his principles into practice and
> > > > spent his entire life studying real damn hard to
> > > > perfect a way to do it as painlessly as possible,
> > > > using the least amount of animals. I don't agree
> > > > with Zakhar or Mercer's principles, but at least
> > > > Mercer has the guts to stand by his and argue his
> > > > position somewhat openly. I can cope with that,
> > > > but what annoys me more than anything is a
> > > > coward who would willingly allow animals to
> > > > die according to his own acceptable ratio while
> > > > criticising others who do it professionally,
> > > > especially if they're also claiming to be an ARA,
> > > > because it makes the rest of us who don't accept
> > > > any ratio at all equally hypocritical if we defend
> > > > his double standard as you do."
> > > > Derek 2003-10-08
> > > >
You never commented on this, blackmailer Ray.
I think you owe Mercer an apology since you
obviously support Zakhar's cost to benefit ratio,
because Mercer's ratio might even be more
acceptable to you than Zakhar's, making him "a
valuable defender of all animal rights issues" as
well. Haw haw.

> > > > > In recent weeks you have tried to go through us
> > > > > all like a dose of salts,
> > > >
> > > > So what? Unlike you, I'm free to take issue with
> > > > whoever I like, whatever their label. Deal with it.
> > >
> > > Right, I'll make a good start - **** you and all your
> > > stupid attempts to gain promininence on this Newsgroup.
> > > You have failed and you are a complete and utter disaster
> > > zone for AR posters.
> > >
> > Was that little outburst supposed to be "a good start" in
> > dealing with me?
>
> I don't have to deal with you any longer.

That right; you can cry off any time you like.

> Put your opinion to the vote:-)

What makes you think I'd pay any attention to
such a vote, even if it went in my favour?
> >
> > > Deal with that council house cleric.
> > >
> > > You ****ing mercer bumboy.
> >
> > It's Zakhar and yourself that supports Mercer's ethic
> > on using animals for research. Not me
>
> OK I'm game.

Drunk, more like, as usual.