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| Vegan (alt.food.vegan) This newsgroup exists to share ideas and issues of concern among vegans. We are always happy to share our recipes- perhaps especially with omnivores who are simply curious- or even better, accomodating a vegan guest for a meal! |
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Rick Etter is right!
Hi,
I used to be vegan for like two weeks a few months ago, since then I have relized my mistake. I was getting yelled at for my political veiws by the vegans at veganforum.com I can't beleive the way the were acting! Anyways, they were all ganging up on me and stuff and now they have pushed me away from that way of thinking for ever. I should have just listened to you from the start, Rick Thanks! - Matt P.S. I will Never go veg again. |
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Hi Matt;
You know, I have met vegans that I have not liked as people. I have also met people at my job I haven't liked, at the university I attended, doctors I haven't liked, etc etc. That did not lead to me quitting my carrer, school, not getting medical care etc. No matter what group you belong to you are going to meet people you do not like. Half a dozen or so folks in one isloted a forum,..., on the internet does not represent an entire group of people. I wouldn't give up health benefits for myself, a contribution I can make to preserving the environment, and a contribution I can make to reducing cruelty simply because I met a few people who insulted me. No offense, just food for thought. Steve That One Guy wrote: > Hi, > I used to be vegan for like two weeks a few months ago, since then I > have relized my mistake. I was getting yelled at for my political > veiws by the vegans at veganforum.com I can't beleive the way the were > acting! Anyways, they were all ganging up on me and stuff and now > they have > pushed me away from that way of thinking for ever. I should have just > listened > to you from the start, Rick Thanks! > - Matt > P.S. I will Never go veg again. |
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Hi Matt;
You know, I have met vegans that I have not liked as people. I have also met people at my job, school, numerous clubs, etc etc that I did not like. That did not lead to me quitting my carrer, school, and giving up all the benefits of any endeavor that involves a group of people. No matter what group you belong to you are going to meet people you do not like. Half a dozen or so folks in one isloted a forum,..., on the internet.........does not represent an entire group of people. I wouldn't give up health benefits for myself, a contribution I can make to preserving the environment, and a contributing to the reduction cruelty simply because I met a few people who insulted me. No offense, just food for thought. Steve > I used to be vegan for like two weeks a few months ago, since then I > have relized my mistake. I was getting yelled at for my political > veiws by the vegans at veganforum.com I can't beleive the way the were > acting! Anyways, they were all ganging up on me and stuff and now > they have > pushed me away from that way of thinking for ever. |
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"Steve" > wrote in message .com... > Hi Matt; > > You know, I have met vegans that I have not liked as people. > > I have also met people at my job, school, numerous clubs, etc etc that I > did not like. > > That did not lead to me quitting my carrer, school, and giving up all the > benefits of any endeavor that involves a group of people. > > No matter what group you belong to you are going to meet people you do > not like. > > Half a dozen or so folks in one isloted a forum,..., on the > internet.........does not represent an entire group of people. > > I wouldn't give up health benefits for myself, a contribution I can make > to preserving the environment, and a contributing to the reduction > cruelty simply because I met a few people who insulted me. ======================= Vegan does not automatically mean *better* for the environment, *better* for your health, *better* in regards to animal cruelty. that's just some of the delsuions that vegan try to pass off on others. The fact remains that there are meat-included diets that would improve your diet on all counts. Too bad you're too blinded by your brainwashing to understand that, eh killer? > > No offense, just food for thought. ============== No offence, just setting your lys straight. > > Steve > >> I used to be vegan for like two weeks a few months ago, since then I >> have relized my mistake. I was getting yelled at for my political veiws >> by the vegans at veganforum.com I can't beleive the way the were >> acting! Anyways, they were all ganging up on me and stuff and now >> they have >> pushed me away from that way of thinking for ever. |
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"Steve" > wrote in message .com... > Hi Matt; > > You know, I have met vegans that I have not liked as people. > > I have also met people at my job, school, numerous clubs, etc etc that I > did not like. > > That did not lead to me quitting my carrer, school, and giving up all the > benefits of any endeavor that involves a group of people. > > No matter what group you belong to you are going to meet people you do > not like. > > Half a dozen or so folks in one isloted a forum,..., on the > internet.........does not represent an entire group of people. > > I wouldn't give up health benefits for myself, a contribution I can make > to preserving the environment, and a contributing to the reduction > cruelty simply because I met a few people who insulted me. ======================= Vegan does not automatically mean *better* for the environment, *better* for your health, *better* in regards to animal cruelty. that's just some of the delsuions that vegan try to pass off on others. The fact remains that there are meat-included diets that would improve your diet on all counts. Too bad you're too blinded by your brainwashing to understand that, eh killer? > > No offense, just food for thought. ============== No offence, just setting your lys straight. > > Steve > >> I used to be vegan for like two weeks a few months ago, since then I >> have relized my mistake. I was getting yelled at for my political veiws >> by the vegans at veganforum.com I can't beleive the way the were >> acting! Anyways, they were all ganging up on me and stuff and now >> they have >> pushed me away from that way of thinking for ever. |
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On Sat, 06 Nov 2004 07:52:43 -0500, Steve > wrote:
>Hi Matt; > >You know, I have met vegans that I have not liked as people. > >I have also met people at my job I haven't liked, at the university I >attended, doctors I haven't liked, etc etc. > >That did not lead to me quitting my carrer, school, not getting medical >care etc. > >No matter what group you belong to you are going to meet people you do >not like. > >Half a dozen or so folks in one isloted a forum,..., on the internet >does not represent an entire group of people. > >I wouldn't give up health benefits for myself, a contribution I can make >to preserving the environment, and a contribution I can make to reducing >cruelty simply because I met a few people who insulted me. > >No offense, just food for thought. > >Steve Etter is right. Nothing is going to change that, no matter who you like or who you don't like. Matt finally allowed himself to consider reality, and now you're trying to talk him out of it. Will Matt revert back to the land of make believe, or will he hang with reality? If he hangs he may consider a lifestyle which contributes to decent lives for farm animals--which veg*nism certainly does not--and he may begin to consume animal products which contribute to fewer deaths than some vegetable products, which vegans can not. > > >That One Guy wrote: > > Hi, > > I used to be vegan for like two weeks a few months ago, since then I > > have relized my mistake. I was getting yelled at for my political > > veiws by the vegans at veganforum.com I can't beleive the way the were > > acting! Anyways, they were all ganging up on me and stuff and now > > they have > > pushed me away from that way of thinking for ever. I should have just > > listened > > to you from the start, Rick Thanks! > > - Matt > > P.S. I will Never go veg again. |
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On Sat, 06 Nov 2004 07:52:43 -0500, Steve > wrote:
>Hi Matt; > >You know, I have met vegans that I have not liked as people. > >I have also met people at my job I haven't liked, at the university I >attended, doctors I haven't liked, etc etc. > >That did not lead to me quitting my carrer, school, not getting medical >care etc. > >No matter what group you belong to you are going to meet people you do >not like. > >Half a dozen or so folks in one isloted a forum,..., on the internet >does not represent an entire group of people. > >I wouldn't give up health benefits for myself, a contribution I can make >to preserving the environment, and a contribution I can make to reducing >cruelty simply because I met a few people who insulted me. > >No offense, just food for thought. > >Steve Etter is right. Nothing is going to change that, no matter who you like or who you don't like. Matt finally allowed himself to consider reality, and now you're trying to talk him out of it. Will Matt revert back to the land of make believe, or will he hang with reality? If he hangs he may consider a lifestyle which contributes to decent lives for farm animals--which veg*nism certainly does not--and he may begin to consume animal products which contribute to fewer deaths than some vegetable products, which vegans can not. > > >That One Guy wrote: > > Hi, > > I used to be vegan for like two weeks a few months ago, since then I > > have relized my mistake. I was getting yelled at for my political > > veiws by the vegans at veganforum.com I can't beleive the way the were > > acting! Anyways, they were all ganging up on me and stuff and now > > they have > > pushed me away from that way of thinking for ever. I should have just > > listened > > to you from the start, Rick Thanks! > > - Matt > > P.S. I will Never go veg again. |
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> wrote in message ... > On Sat, 06 Nov 2004 07:52:43 -0500, Steve > wrote: > > >Hi Matt; > > > >You know, I have met vegans that I have not liked as people. > > > >I have also met people at my job I haven't liked, at the university I > >attended, doctors I haven't liked, etc etc. > > > >That did not lead to me quitting my carrer, school, not getting medical > >care etc. > > > >No matter what group you belong to you are going to meet people you do > >not like. > > > >Half a dozen or so folks in one isloted a forum,..., on the internet > >does not represent an entire group of people. > > > >I wouldn't give up health benefits for myself, a contribution I can make > >to preserving the environment, and a contribution I can make to reducing > >cruelty simply because I met a few people who insulted me. > > > >No offense, just food for thought. > > > >Steve > > Etter is right. Nothing is going to change that, no matter who you > like or who you don't like. Matt finally allowed himself to consider > reality, and now you're trying to talk him out of it. Will Matt revert > back to the land of make believe, or will he hang with reality? If he > hangs he may consider a lifestyle which contributes to decent lives > for farm animals--which veg*nism certainly does not--and he may > begin to consume animal products which contribute to fewer deaths > than some vegetable products, which vegans can not. Where are the numebrs showing a meat died causes fewer animal deaths than a plant base one? Do you also believe that pigs and cows tiptoe through the meadow, that chickens never peck up a few insects? Veganism is about animal exploitation, not numbers of animals dead, nor is veganism Luditism. So Etter is wrong on both those counts, and he has never provided a single scrap of convincing evidence to support his claim that a plant based diet causes more animal deaths. It is you and Etter who live in a land of make believe. John |
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"rick etter" > wrote in message ink.net... > > "Steve" > wrote in message > .com... > > Hi Matt; > > > > You know, I have met vegans that I have not liked as people. > > > > I have also met people at my job, school, numerous clubs, etc etc that I > > did not like. > > > > That did not lead to me quitting my carrer, school, and giving up all the > > benefits of any endeavor that involves a group of people. > > > > No matter what group you belong to you are going to meet people you do > > not like. > > > > Half a dozen or so folks in one isloted a forum,..., on the > > internet.........does not represent an entire group of people. > > > > I wouldn't give up health benefits for myself, a contribution I can make > > to preserving the environment, and a contributing to the reduction > > cruelty simply because I met a few people who insulted me. > ======================= > Vegan does not automatically mean *better* for the environment, *better* for > your health, *better* in regards to animal cruelty. that's just some of > the delsuions that vegan try to pass off on others. The fact remains that > there are meat-included diets that would improve your diet on all counts. > Too bad you're too blinded by your brainwashing to understand that, eh > killer? We understand facts, information supported by convincing evidence and logic, not your endless vacuous rhetoric. I bet you don't reply to this with any facts, just more of your obnoxious and pointless diatribe. John |
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"John Coleman" > wrote in message ... > > > wrote in message > ... >> On Sat, 06 Nov 2004 07:52:43 -0500, Steve > > wrote: >> >> >Hi Matt; >> > >> >You know, I have met vegans that I have not liked as people. >> > >> >I have also met people at my job I haven't liked, at the university I >> >attended, doctors I haven't liked, etc etc. >> > >> >That did not lead to me quitting my carrer, school, not getting medical >> >care etc. >> > >> >No matter what group you belong to you are going to meet people you do >> >not like. >> > >> >Half a dozen or so folks in one isloted a forum,..., on the internet >> >does not represent an entire group of people. >> > >> >I wouldn't give up health benefits for myself, a contribution I can make >> >to preserving the environment, and a contribution I can make to reducing >> >cruelty simply because I met a few people who insulted me. >> > >> >No offense, just food for thought. >> > >> >Steve >> >> Etter is right. Nothing is going to change that, no matter who you >> like or who you don't like. Matt finally allowed himself to consider >> reality, and now you're trying to talk him out of it. Will Matt revert >> back to the land of make believe, or will he hang with reality? If he >> hangs he may consider a lifestyle which contributes to decent lives >> for farm animals--which veg*nism certainly does not--and he may >> begin to consume animal products which contribute to fewer deaths >> than some vegetable products, which vegans can not. > > Where are the numebrs showing a meat died causes fewer animal deaths than > a > plant base one? Do you also believe that pigs and cows tiptoe through the > meadow, that chickens never peck up a few insects? > > Veganism is about animal exploitation, not numbers of animals dead, ======================= ROTFLMAO So you can kill them by the millions upon millions and leave them to rot, you just can't 'exploit' them? You really are just too much, killer!! nor is > veganism Luditism. So Etter is wrong on both those counts, and he has > never > provided a single scrap of convincing evidence to support his claim that a > plant based diet causes more animal deaths. ======================= I suggest you learn how to use your computer fool. I have, many times. Most ignorant vegans, like you, snip out the facts and pretend they don't exist. > > It is you and Etter who live in a land of make believe. ============= Nope. Your delsuions have taken over what few remaining brain cells you had.... > > John > > |
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I buy organic, no pesticides.
John "rick etter" > wrote in message ink.net... > > "John Coleman" > wrote in message > ... > > > > "rick etter" > wrote in message > > ink.net... > >> > >> "Steve" > wrote in message > >> .com... > >> > Hi Matt; > >> > > >> > You know, I have met vegans that I have not liked as people. > >> > > >> > I have also met people at my job, school, numerous clubs, etc etc that > >> > I > >> > did not like. > >> > > >> > That did not lead to me quitting my carrer, school, and giving up all > > the > >> > benefits of any endeavor that involves a group of people. > >> > > >> > No matter what group you belong to you are going to meet people you do > >> > not like. > >> > > >> > Half a dozen or so folks in one isloted a forum,..., on the > >> > internet.........does not represent an entire group of people. > >> > > >> > I wouldn't give up health benefits for myself, a contribution I can > >> > make > >> > to preserving the environment, and a contributing to the reduction > >> > cruelty simply because I met a few people who insulted me. > >> ======================= > >> Vegan does not automatically mean *better* for the environment, *better* > > for > >> your health, *better* in regards to animal cruelty. that's just some of > >> the delsuions that vegan try to pass off on others. The fact remains > >> that > >> there are meat-included diets that would improve your diet on all counts. > >> Too bad you're too blinded by your brainwashing to understand that, eh > >> killer? > > > > We understand facts, information supported by convincing evidence and > > logic, > > not your endless vacuous rhetoric. > > > > I bet you don't reply to this with any facts, just more of your obnoxious > > and pointless diatribe. > ========================== > Really? The only pointless ignorance I've seen is yours, killer. Have > you backed up your claims yet, fool? > > You lose, killer.... > > > > > > John > > > > > > > > > > Here are some sites, with info on specific areas and > pesticides. Animals die. > http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/pesticideindex.htm > http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html > http://www.pmac.net/fishkill.htm > http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html > http://www.pmac.net/bird_fish_CA.html > http://oregonstate.edu/dept/ncs/news...00/nitrate.htm > http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/P...carbofuran.htm > http://www.nwf.org/internationalwildlife/hawk.html > http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn36/pn36p3.htm > http://www.wwfcanada.org/satellite/p...eFactSheet.pdf > http://www.ncwildlife.org/pg07_Wildl...on/pg7f2b6.htm > http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html > http://www.wildlifedamagecontrol.com.../leastharm.htm > http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html > http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/ > http://ipm.ncsu.edu/wildlife/small_grains_wildlife.html > http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/sugarcane.htm > http://www.wildlifetrustofindia.org/...ele_poison.htm > http://species.fws.gov/bio_rhin.html > http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html > http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html > http://www.hornedlizards.org/hornedlizards/help.html > http://insects.tamu.edu/extension/bulletins/b-5093.html > http://www.orst.edu/dept/ncs/newsarc...00/nitrate.htm > http://www.orst.edu/instruct/fw251/n...riculture.html > http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn35/pn35p6.htm > > > > http://www.greenenergyohio.org/defau...iew&pageID=135 > http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html > http://www.epa.gov/airmarkets/capandtrade/power.pdf > http://www.nirs.org/licensedtokill/L...xecsummary.pdf > http://www.towerkill.com/index.html > http://migratorybirds.fws.gov/issues/towers/towers.htm > http://www.abcbirds.org/policy/towerkill.htm > http://www.mhhe.com/biosci/pae/es_ma...ticle_22.mhtml > http://www.netwalk.com/~vireo/devastatingtoll.html > http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...7697992.htm?1c > http://www.energy.ca.gov/pier/energy...00-01-019.html > http://www.repp.org/repp_pubs/articl.../04impacts.htm > http://www.wvrivers.org/anker-upshur.htm > http://www.fisheries.org/html/Public...nts/ps_2.shtml > http://www.powerscorecard.org/issue_...cfm?issue_id=5 > http://www.safesecurevital.org/artic...012012004.html > > > Since your non-animal clothing isn't cruelty-free either, > here's a couple to cover some problems with cotton. > http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html > http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/ > http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/cotton.htm > > To give you an idea of the sheer number of animals in a field, > here's some sites about *just* mice and voles. Note that there > can be 100s to 1000s in each acre, not the whole field. > http://216.239.37.100/search?q=cache...state.edu/pubs > /natres/06507.pdf+%22voles+per+acre%22+field&hl=en&ie=UTF8 > http://extension.usu.edu/publica/natrpubs/voles.pdf > http://extension.ag.uidaho.edu/district4/MG/voles.html > http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html > > > To cover your selfish pleasure of using usenet, and > maintaining a web page on same, here's are a couple > dealing with power and communications. > http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html > http://www.towerkill.com/index.html > > |
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"John Coleman" > wrote in message ... >I buy organic, no pesticides. ================= ROTFLMAO Organic does not mean no pesticides your ignorant dolt. And some of them are even more toxic than synthetic ones. You really don't have a clue, fool.... > > John > > "rick etter" > wrote in message > ink.net... >> >> "John Coleman" > wrote in message >> ... >> > >> > "rick etter" > wrote in message >> > ink.net... >> >> >> >> "Steve" > wrote in message >> >> .com... >> >> > Hi Matt; >> >> > >> >> > You know, I have met vegans that I have not liked as people. >> >> > >> >> > I have also met people at my job, school, numerous clubs, etc etc > that >> >> > I >> >> > did not like. >> >> > >> >> > That did not lead to me quitting my carrer, school, and giving up >> >> > all >> > the >> >> > benefits of any endeavor that involves a group of people. >> >> > >> >> > No matter what group you belong to you are going to meet people you > do >> >> > not like. >> >> > >> >> > Half a dozen or so folks in one isloted a forum,..., on the >> >> > internet.........does not represent an entire group of people. >> >> > >> >> > I wouldn't give up health benefits for myself, a contribution I can >> >> > make >> >> > to preserving the environment, and a contributing to the reduction >> >> > cruelty simply because I met a few people who insulted me. >> >> ======================= >> >> Vegan does not automatically mean *better* for the environment, > *better* >> > for >> >> your health, *better* in regards to animal cruelty. that's just some > of >> >> the delsuions that vegan try to pass off on others. The fact remains >> >> that >> >> there are meat-included diets that would improve your diet on all > counts. >> >> Too bad you're too blinded by your brainwashing to understand that, eh >> >> killer? >> > >> > We understand facts, information supported by convincing evidence and >> > logic, >> > not your endless vacuous rhetoric. >> > >> > I bet you don't reply to this with any facts, just more of your > obnoxious >> > and pointless diatribe. >> ========================== >> Really? The only pointless ignorance I've seen is yours, killer. Have >> you backed up your claims yet, fool? >> >> You lose, killer.... >> >> >> > >> > John >> > >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> Here are some sites, with info on specific areas and >> pesticides. Animals die. >> http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/pesticideindex.htm >> http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html >> http://www.pmac.net/fishkill.htm >> http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html >> http://www.pmac.net/bird_fish_CA.html >> http://oregonstate.edu/dept/ncs/news...00/nitrate.htm >> http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/P...carbofuran.htm >> http://www.nwf.org/internationalwildlife/hawk.html >> http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn36/pn36p3.htm >> > http://www.wwfcanada.org/satellite/p...eFactSheet.pdf >> http://www.ncwildlife.org/pg07_Wildl...on/pg7f2b6.htm >> http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html >> http://www.wildlifedamagecontrol.com.../leastharm.htm >> http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html >> http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/ >> http://ipm.ncsu.edu/wildlife/small_grains_wildlife.html >> http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/sugarcane.htm >> http://www.wildlifetrustofindia.org/...ele_poison.htm >> http://species.fws.gov/bio_rhin.html >> http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html >> http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html >> http://www.hornedlizards.org/hornedlizards/help.html >> http://insects.tamu.edu/extension/bulletins/b-5093.html >> http://www.orst.edu/dept/ncs/newsarc...00/nitrate.htm >> http://www.orst.edu/instruct/fw251/n...riculture.html >> http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn35/pn35p6.htm >> >> >> >> http://www.greenenergyohio.org/defau...iew&pageID=135 >> http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html >> http://www.epa.gov/airmarkets/capandtrade/power.pdf >> http://www.nirs.org/licensedtokill/L...xecsummary.pdf >> http://www.towerkill.com/index.html >> http://migratorybirds.fws.gov/issues/towers/towers.htm >> http://www.abcbirds.org/policy/towerkill.htm >> http://www.mhhe.com/biosci/pae/es_ma...ticle_22.mhtml >> http://www.netwalk.com/~vireo/devastatingtoll.html >> http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...7697992.htm?1c >> http://www.energy.ca.gov/pier/energy...00-01-019.html >> http://www.repp.org/repp_pubs/articl.../04impacts.htm >> http://www.wvrivers.org/anker-upshur.htm >> http://www.fisheries.org/html/Public...nts/ps_2.shtml >> http://www.powerscorecard.org/issue_...cfm?issue_id=5 >> http://www.safesecurevital.org/artic...012012004.html >> >> >> Since your non-animal clothing isn't cruelty-free either, >> here's a couple to cover some problems with cotton. >> http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html >> http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/ >> http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/cotton.htm >> >> To give you an idea of the sheer number of animals in a field, >> here's some sites about *just* mice and voles. Note that there >> can be 100s to 1000s in each acre, not the whole field. >> > http://216.239.37.100/search?q=cache...&hl=en&ie=UTF8 >> http://extension.usu.edu/publica/natrpubs/voles.pdf >> http://extension.ag.uidaho.edu/district4/MG/voles.html >> http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html >> >> >> To cover your selfish pleasure of using usenet, and >> maintaining a web page on same, here's are a couple >> dealing with power and communications. >> http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html >> http://www.towerkill.com/index.html >> >> > > |
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"John Coleman" > wrote in message ... >I buy organic, no pesticides. ================= ROTFLMAO Organic does not mean no pesticides your ignorant dolt. And some of them are even more toxic than synthetic ones. You really don't have a clue, fool.... > > John > > "rick etter" > wrote in message > ink.net... >> >> "John Coleman" > wrote in message >> ... >> > >> > "rick etter" > wrote in message >> > ink.net... >> >> >> >> "Steve" > wrote in message >> >> .com... >> >> > Hi Matt; >> >> > >> >> > You know, I have met vegans that I have not liked as people. >> >> > >> >> > I have also met people at my job, school, numerous clubs, etc etc > that >> >> > I >> >> > did not like. >> >> > >> >> > That did not lead to me quitting my carrer, school, and giving up >> >> > all >> > the >> >> > benefits of any endeavor that involves a group of people. >> >> > >> >> > No matter what group you belong to you are going to meet people you > do >> >> > not like. >> >> > >> >> > Half a dozen or so folks in one isloted a forum,..., on the >> >> > internet.........does not represent an entire group of people. >> >> > >> >> > I wouldn't give up health benefits for myself, a contribution I can >> >> > make >> >> > to preserving the environment, and a contributing to the reduction >> >> > cruelty simply because I met a few people who insulted me. >> >> ======================= >> >> Vegan does not automatically mean *better* for the environment, > *better* >> > for >> >> your health, *better* in regards to animal cruelty. that's just some > of >> >> the delsuions that vegan try to pass off on others. The fact remains >> >> that >> >> there are meat-included diets that would improve your diet on all > counts. >> >> Too bad you're too blinded by your brainwashing to understand that, eh >> >> killer? >> > >> > We understand facts, information supported by convincing evidence and >> > logic, >> > not your endless vacuous rhetoric. >> > >> > I bet you don't reply to this with any facts, just more of your > obnoxious >> > and pointless diatribe. >> ========================== >> Really? The only pointless ignorance I've seen is yours, killer. Have >> you backed up your claims yet, fool? >> >> You lose, killer.... >> >> >> > >> > John >> > >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> Here are some sites, with info on specific areas and >> pesticides. Animals die. >> http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/pesticideindex.htm >> http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html >> http://www.pmac.net/fishkill.htm >> http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html >> http://www.pmac.net/bird_fish_CA.html >> http://oregonstate.edu/dept/ncs/news...00/nitrate.htm >> http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/P...carbofuran.htm >> http://www.nwf.org/internationalwildlife/hawk.html >> http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn36/pn36p3.htm >> > http://www.wwfcanada.org/satellite/p...eFactSheet.pdf >> http://www.ncwildlife.org/pg07_Wildl...on/pg7f2b6.htm >> http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html >> http://www.wildlifedamagecontrol.com.../leastharm.htm >> http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html >> http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/ >> http://ipm.ncsu.edu/wildlife/small_grains_wildlife.html >> http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/sugarcane.htm >> http://www.wildlifetrustofindia.org/...ele_poison.htm >> http://species.fws.gov/bio_rhin.html >> http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html >> http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html >> http://www.hornedlizards.org/hornedlizards/help.html >> http://insects.tamu.edu/extension/bulletins/b-5093.html >> http://www.orst.edu/dept/ncs/newsarc...00/nitrate.htm >> http://www.orst.edu/instruct/fw251/n...riculture.html >> http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn35/pn35p6.htm >> >> >> >> http://www.greenenergyohio.org/defau...iew&pageID=135 >> http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html >> http://www.epa.gov/airmarkets/capandtrade/power.pdf >> http://www.nirs.org/licensedtokill/L...xecsummary.pdf >> http://www.towerkill.com/index.html >> http://migratorybirds.fws.gov/issues/towers/towers.htm >> http://www.abcbirds.org/policy/towerkill.htm >> http://www.mhhe.com/biosci/pae/es_ma...ticle_22.mhtml >> http://www.netwalk.com/~vireo/devastatingtoll.html >> http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...7697992.htm?1c >> http://www.energy.ca.gov/pier/energy...00-01-019.html >> http://www.repp.org/repp_pubs/articl.../04impacts.htm >> http://www.wvrivers.org/anker-upshur.htm >> http://www.fisheries.org/html/Public...nts/ps_2.shtml >> http://www.powerscorecard.org/issue_...cfm?issue_id=5 >> http://www.safesecurevital.org/artic...012012004.html >> >> >> Since your non-animal clothing isn't cruelty-free either, >> here's a couple to cover some problems with cotton. >> http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html >> http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/ >> http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/cotton.htm >> >> To give you an idea of the sheer number of animals in a field, >> here's some sites about *just* mice and voles. Note that there >> can be 100s to 1000s in each acre, not the whole field. >> > http://216.239.37.100/search?q=cache...&hl=en&ie=UTF8 >> http://extension.usu.edu/publica/natrpubs/voles.pdf >> http://extension.ag.uidaho.edu/district4/MG/voles.html >> http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html >> >> >> To cover your selfish pleasure of using usenet, and >> maintaining a web page on same, here's are a couple >> dealing with power and communications. >> http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html >> http://www.towerkill.com/index.html >> >> > > |
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The UK Soil Association has very restrictive rules on pesticide use, only 4
are permitted. They canot be used preventatively, only when there is an actual issue. When the substance is toxic to higher lifeforms, it must be delivered with a repellent, and these substances have a very limited application anyway. http://www.soilassociation.org/web/sa/saweb.nsf/848d689047cb466780256a6b00298980/ff83a83e9c9e75ea80256e3600609101!OpenDocument Hardly the misleading picture you are trying to paint Rick. John Plant Protection Products allowed under Soil Association and DEFRA Standards for Organic Farming in the UK Product name Description, conditions SA DEFRA I. Substances of crop or animal origin Rotenone (extracted from Derris spp., Lonchocarpus spp. & Terphrosia spp.) Insecticide ü R ü R II. Synthesised substances Fatty acid potassium salt (soft soap) Insecticide ü ü Sulphur Fungicide, acaricide, repellant ü ü Copper (copper hydroxide, copper oxychloride, (tribasic) copper sulphate, cuprous oxide) Fungicide. Limit of 8kg Cu/ha/yr. ü R ü R Potassium permanganate Fungicide, bactericide; only in fruit trees, olive trees and vines x ü Paraffin oil Insecticide, acaricide x ü Mineral oils Insecticide, fungicide. Only in fruit & olive trees, vines and tropical crops x ü R III. Substances in traps and/or dispensers Pyrethroids (only deltamethrin or lambdacyhalothrin) Insecticide, in traps with attractants. Only against Batrocera oleae & Ceratitis capitata wied x ü R Metaldehyde Molluscicide, only in traps with repellent to higher animals x ü R IV. Biological control agents Micro-organisms (bacteria, viruses & fungi) eg. Bacillus thuringensis, Granulosis virus, etc Only products which are not genetically modified according to EU Directive 90/220/EEC ü ü Key ü = "permitted" under organic standards. Any permitted pesticide can only be used where there is an actual threat to the crop, ie not preventatively . ü R = "restricted" pesticide. Can only be used where need is recognised by a Certification Officer/Certifying body; permission given on a case by case basis by the SA. x = not permitted Notes 1.. About 430 different pesticides (active ingredients) are permitted for use in non-organic farming in the UK, where they are the main form of pest control. The long term, cumulative and cocktail effects of these products on the environment and health have not been established. 2.. In organic farming, the main form of pest control is through cultural methods: good soil health for natural plant resistance, less intensive production for physically stronger plants, rotation and appropriate sowing times, the maintenance of the habitats of natural predator species, resistant crop varieties, composting for disease control, and substances which prevent pest attack through physical means such as grease bands around tree trunks. A very small number of pesticide products (products which kill pests) are allowed as a second line of defence in cases where cultural methods are inadequate; they are shown in the table overleaf [above - JC]. 3.. The table shows that in the UK only 4 pesticide products are allowed under the Soil Association standards for organic production, and 7 are allowed under the UKROFS standards (the basic UK standards for organic production). This excludes substances only used in traps or dispensers, where there is minimal risk to the environment and no possibility of residues in food, and micro-organisms for biological control. The use of copper is limited to 8kg/ha/year; and there is a maximum limit on the total level of copper in the soil: 50ml/kg or 110ka/ha. 4.. One of the pesticides allowed in the UK in organic farming is of natural origin (rotenone); the remainder are synthetic and from traditional use in organic farming. Under the Soil Association standards the three synthetic substances allowed a soft soap, sulphur and copper; rotenone and copper are only allowed under restricted circumstances on a case by case basis. 5.. The synthetic products allowed in organic farming are simple chemical products, compared to the more complex substances typically used as pesticides in non-organic farming. Soft soap, paraffin oil, mineral oil, and rotenone, which is photo-sensitive, all break down quickly in the environment, and so should not be a threat to health or the wider environment. Most conventional products do not break down so quickly. Potassium and sulphur are also plant nutrients and are applied as fertilisers in non-organic farming. 6.. Please note that this table only applies to organic production in the UK. Because of the different environmental conditions in different EU countries, other products are needed for specific pest problems in other countries and so at a European level the EC standards allow several other pesticide products to be used. Each country has their list of products for national use. Imported organic products may therefore have been produced with the use of products not listed in this table. "rick etter" > wrote in message link.net... > > "John Coleman" > wrote in message > ... > >I buy organic, no pesticides. > ================= > ROTFLMAO Organic does not mean no pesticides your ignorant dolt. And > some of them are even more toxic than synthetic ones. You really don't have > a clue, fool.... > > > > > > John > > > > "rick etter" > wrote in message > > ink.net... > >> > >> "John Coleman" > wrote in message > >> ... > >> > > >> > "rick etter" > wrote in message > >> > ink.net... > >> >> > >> >> "Steve" > wrote in message > >> >> .com... > >> >> > Hi Matt; > >> >> > > >> >> > You know, I have met vegans that I have not liked as people. > >> >> > > >> >> > I have also met people at my job, school, numerous clubs, etc etc > > that > >> >> > I > >> >> > did not like. > >> >> > > >> >> > That did not lead to me quitting my carrer, school, and giving up > >> >> > all > >> > the > >> >> > benefits of any endeavor that involves a group of people. > >> >> > > >> >> > No matter what group you belong to you are going to meet people you > > do > >> >> > not like. > >> >> > > >> >> > Half a dozen or so folks in one isloted a forum,..., on the > >> >> > internet.........does not represent an entire group of people. > >> >> > > >> >> > I wouldn't give up health benefits for myself, a contribution I can > >> >> > make > >> >> > to preserving the environment, and a contributing to the reduction > >> >> > cruelty simply because I met a few people who insulted me. > >> >> ======================= > >> >> Vegan does not automatically mean *better* for the environment, > > *better* > >> > for > >> >> your health, *better* in regards to animal cruelty. that's just some > > of > >> >> the delsuions that vegan try to pass off on others. The fact remains > >> >> that > >> >> there are meat-included diets that would improve your diet on all > > counts. > >> >> Too bad you're too blinded by your brainwashing to understand that, eh > >> >> killer? > >> > > >> > We understand facts, information supported by convincing evidence and > >> > logic, > >> > not your endless vacuous rhetoric. > >> > > >> > I bet you don't reply to this with any facts, just more of your > > obnoxious > >> > and pointless diatribe. > >> ========================== > >> Really? The only pointless ignorance I've seen is yours, killer. Have > >> you backed up your claims yet, fool? > >> > >> You lose, killer.... > >> > >> > >> > > >> > John > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Here are some sites, with info on specific areas and > >> pesticides. Animals die. > >> http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/pesticideindex.htm > >> http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html > >> http://www.pmac.net/fishkill.htm > >> http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html > >> http://www.pmac.net/bird_fish_CA.html > >> http://oregonstate.edu/dept/ncs/news...00/nitrate.htm > >> http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/P...carbofuran.htm > >> http://www.nwf.org/internationalwildlife/hawk.html > >> http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn36/pn36p3.htm > >> > > http://www.wwfcanada.org/satellite/p...eFactSheet.pdf > >> http://www.ncwildlife.org/pg07_Wildl...on/pg7f2b6.htm > >> http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html > >> http://www.wildlifedamagecontrol.com.../leastharm.htm > >> http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html > >> http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/ > >> http://ipm.ncsu.edu/wildlife/small_grains_wildlife.html > >> http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/sugarcane.htm > >> http://www.wildlifetrustofindia.org/...ele_poison.htm > >> http://species.fws.gov/bio_rhin.html > >> http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html > >> http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html > >> http://www.hornedlizards.org/hornedlizards/help.html > >> http://insects.tamu.edu/extension/bulletins/b-5093.html > >> http://www.orst.edu/dept/ncs/newsarc...00/nitrate.htm > >> http://www.orst.edu/instruct/fw251/n...riculture.html > >> http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn35/pn35p6.htm > >> > >> > >> > >> http://www.greenenergyohio.org/defau...iew&pageID=135 > >> http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html > >> http://www.epa.gov/airmarkets/capandtrade/power.pdf > >> http://www.nirs.org/licensedtokill/L...xecsummary.pdf > >> http://www.towerkill.com/index.html > >> http://migratorybirds.fws.gov/issues/towers/towers.htm > >> http://www.abcbirds.org/policy/towerkill.htm > >> http://www.mhhe.com/biosci/pae/es_ma...ticle_22.mhtml > >> http://www.netwalk.com/~vireo/devastatingtoll.html > >> http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...7697992.htm?1c > >> http://www.energy.ca.gov/pier/energy...00-01-019.html > >> http://www.repp.org/repp_pubs/articl.../04impacts.htm > >> http://www.wvrivers.org/anker-upshur.htm > >> http://www.fisheries.org/html/Public...nts/ps_2.shtml > >> http://www.powerscorecard.org/issue_...cfm?issue_id=5 > >> http://www.safesecurevital.org/artic...012012004.html > >> > >> > >> Since your non-animal clothing isn't cruelty-free either, > >> here's a couple to cover some problems with cotton. > >> http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html > >> http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/ > >> http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/cotton.htm > >> > >> To give you an idea of the sheer number of animals in a field, > >> here's some sites about *just* mice and voles. Note that there > >> can be 100s to 1000s in each acre, not the whole field. > >> > > http://216.239.37.100/search?q=cache...&hl=en&ie=UTF8 > >> http://extension.usu.edu/publica/natrpubs/voles.pdf > >> http://extension.ag.uidaho.edu/district4/MG/voles.html > >> http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html > >> > >> > >> To cover your selfish pleasure of using usenet, and > >> maintaining a web page on same, here's are a couple > >> dealing with power and communications. > >> http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html > >> http://www.towerkill.com/index.html > >> > >> > > > > > > |
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The UK Soil Association has very restrictive rules on pesticide use, only 4
are permitted. They canot be used preventatively, only when there is an actual issue. When the substance is toxic to higher lifeforms, it must be delivered with a repellent, and these substances have a very limited application anyway. http://www.soilassociation.org/web/sa/saweb.nsf/848d689047cb466780256a6b00298980/ff83a83e9c9e75ea80256e3600609101!OpenDocument Hardly the misleading picture you are trying to paint Rick. John Plant Protection Products allowed under Soil Association and DEFRA Standards for Organic Farming in the UK Product name Description, conditions SA DEFRA I. Substances of crop or animal origin Rotenone (extracted from Derris spp., Lonchocarpus spp. & Terphrosia spp.) Insecticide ü R ü R II. Synthesised substances Fatty acid potassium salt (soft soap) Insecticide ü ü Sulphur Fungicide, acaricide, repellant ü ü Copper (copper hydroxide, copper oxychloride, (tribasic) copper sulphate, cuprous oxide) Fungicide. Limit of 8kg Cu/ha/yr. ü R ü R Potassium permanganate Fungicide, bactericide; only in fruit trees, olive trees and vines x ü Paraffin oil Insecticide, acaricide x ü Mineral oils Insecticide, fungicide. Only in fruit & olive trees, vines and tropical crops x ü R III. Substances in traps and/or dispensers Pyrethroids (only deltamethrin or lambdacyhalothrin) Insecticide, in traps with attractants. Only against Batrocera oleae & Ceratitis capitata wied x ü R Metaldehyde Molluscicide, only in traps with repellent to higher animals x ü R IV. Biological control agents Micro-organisms (bacteria, viruses & fungi) eg. Bacillus thuringensis, Granulosis virus, etc Only products which are not genetically modified according to EU Directive 90/220/EEC ü ü Key ü = "permitted" under organic standards. Any permitted pesticide can only be used where there is an actual threat to the crop, ie not preventatively . ü R = "restricted" pesticide. Can only be used where need is recognised by a Certification Officer/Certifying body; permission given on a case by case basis by the SA. x = not permitted Notes 1.. About 430 different pesticides (active ingredients) are permitted for use in non-organic farming in the UK, where they are the main form of pest control. The long term, cumulative and cocktail effects of these products on the environment and health have not been established. 2.. In organic farming, the main form of pest control is through cultural methods: good soil health for natural plant resistance, less intensive production for physically stronger plants, rotation and appropriate sowing times, the maintenance of the habitats of natural predator species, resistant crop varieties, composting for disease control, and substances which prevent pest attack through physical means such as grease bands around tree trunks. A very small number of pesticide products (products which kill pests) are allowed as a second line of defence in cases where cultural methods are inadequate; they are shown in the table overleaf [above - JC]. 3.. The table shows that in the UK only 4 pesticide products are allowed under the Soil Association standards for organic production, and 7 are allowed under the UKROFS standards (the basic UK standards for organic production). This excludes substances only used in traps or dispensers, where there is minimal risk to the environment and no possibility of residues in food, and micro-organisms for biological control. The use of copper is limited to 8kg/ha/year; and there is a maximum limit on the total level of copper in the soil: 50ml/kg or 110ka/ha. 4.. One of the pesticides allowed in the UK in organic farming is of natural origin (rotenone); the remainder are synthetic and from traditional use in organic farming. Under the Soil Association standards the three synthetic substances allowed a soft soap, sulphur and copper; rotenone and copper are only allowed under restricted circumstances on a case by case basis. 5.. The synthetic products allowed in organic farming are simple chemical products, compared to the more complex substances typically used as pesticides in non-organic farming. Soft soap, paraffin oil, mineral oil, and rotenone, which is photo-sensitive, all break down quickly in the environment, and so should not be a threat to health or the wider environment. Most conventional products do not break down so quickly. Potassium and sulphur are also plant nutrients and are applied as fertilisers in non-organic farming. 6.. Please note that this table only applies to organic production in the UK. Because of the different environmental conditions in different EU countries, other products are needed for specific pest problems in other countries and so at a European level the EC standards allow several other pesticide products to be used. Each country has their list of products for national use. Imported organic products may therefore have been produced with the use of products not listed in this table. "rick etter" > wrote in message link.net... > > "John Coleman" > wrote in message > ... > >I buy organic, no pesticides. > ================= > ROTFLMAO Organic does not mean no pesticides your ignorant dolt. And > some of them are even more toxic than synthetic ones. You really don't have > a clue, fool.... > > > > > > John > > > > "rick etter" > wrote in message > > ink.net... > >> > >> "John Coleman" > wrote in message > >> ... > >> > > >> > "rick etter" > wrote in message > >> > ink.net... > >> >> > >> >> "Steve" > wrote in message > >> >> .com... > >> >> > Hi Matt; > >> >> > > >> >> > You know, I have met vegans that I have not liked as people. > >> >> > > >> >> > I have also met people at my job, school, numerous clubs, etc etc > > that > >> >> > I > >> >> > did not like. > >> >> > > >> >> > That did not lead to me quitting my carrer, school, and giving up > >> >> > all > >> > the > >> >> > benefits of any endeavor that involves a group of people. > >> >> > > >> >> > No matter what group you belong to you are going to meet people you > > do > >> >> > not like. > >> >> > > >> >> > Half a dozen or so folks in one isloted a forum,..., on the > >> >> > internet.........does not represent an entire group of people. > >> >> > > >> >> > I wouldn't give up health benefits for myself, a contribution I can > >> >> > make > >> >> > to preserving the environment, and a contributing to the reduction > >> >> > cruelty simply because I met a few people who insulted me. > >> >> ======================= > >> >> Vegan does not automatically mean *better* for the environment, > > *better* > >> > for > >> >> your health, *better* in regards to animal cruelty. that's just some > > of > >> >> the delsuions that vegan try to pass off on others. The fact remains > >> >> that > >> >> there are meat-included diets that would improve your diet on all > > counts. > >> >> Too bad you're too blinded by your brainwashing to understand that, eh > >> >> killer? > >> > > >> > We understand facts, information supported by convincing evidence and > >> > logic, > >> > not your endless vacuous rhetoric. > >> > > >> > I bet you don't reply to this with any facts, just more of your > > obnoxious > >> > and pointless diatribe. > >> ========================== > >> Really? The only pointless ignorance I've seen is yours, killer. Have > >> you backed up your claims yet, fool? > >> > >> You lose, killer.... > >> > >> > >> > > >> > John > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> Here are some sites, with info on specific areas and > >> pesticides. Animals die. > >> http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/pesticideindex.htm > >> http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html > >> http://www.pmac.net/fishkill.htm > >> http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html > >> http://www.pmac.net/bird_fish_CA.html > >> http://oregonstate.edu/dept/ncs/news...00/nitrate.htm > >> http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/P...carbofuran.htm > >> http://www.nwf.org/internationalwildlife/hawk.html > >> http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn36/pn36p3.htm > >> > > http://www.wwfcanada.org/satellite/p...eFactSheet.pdf > >> http://www.ncwildlife.org/pg07_Wildl...on/pg7f2b6.htm > >> http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html > >> http://www.wildlifedamagecontrol.com.../leastharm.htm > >> http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html > >> http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/ > >> http://ipm.ncsu.edu/wildlife/small_grains_wildlife.html > >> http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/sugarcane.htm > >> http://www.wildlifetrustofindia.org/...ele_poison.htm > >> http://species.fws.gov/bio_rhin.html > >> http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html > >> http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html > >> http://www.hornedlizards.org/hornedlizards/help.html > >> http://insects.tamu.edu/extension/bulletins/b-5093.html > >> http://www.orst.edu/dept/ncs/newsarc...00/nitrate.htm > >> http://www.orst.edu/instruct/fw251/n...riculture.html > >> http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn35/pn35p6.htm > >> > >> > >> > >> http://www.greenenergyohio.org/defau...iew&pageID=135 > >> http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html > >> http://www.epa.gov/airmarkets/capandtrade/power.pdf > >> http://www.nirs.org/licensedtokill/L...xecsummary.pdf > >> http://www.towerkill.com/index.html > >> http://migratorybirds.fws.gov/issues/towers/towers.htm > >> http://www.abcbirds.org/policy/towerkill.htm > >> http://www.mhhe.com/biosci/pae/es_ma...ticle_22.mhtml > >> http://www.netwalk.com/~vireo/devastatingtoll.html > >> http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...7697992.htm?1c > >> http://www.energy.ca.gov/pier/energy...00-01-019.html > >> http://www.repp.org/repp_pubs/articl.../04impacts.htm > >> http://www.wvrivers.org/anker-upshur.htm > >> http://www.fisheries.org/html/Public...nts/ps_2.shtml > >> http://www.powerscorecard.org/issue_...cfm?issue_id=5 > >> http://www.safesecurevital.org/artic...012012004.html > >> > >> > >> Since your non-animal clothing isn't cruelty-free either, > >> here's a couple to cover some problems with cotton. > >> http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html > >> http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/ > >> http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/cotton.htm > >> > >> To give you an idea of the sheer number of animals in a field, > >> here's some sites about *just* mice and voles. Note that there > >> can be 100s to 1000s in each acre, not the whole field. > >> > > http://216.239.37.100/search?q=cache...&hl=en&ie=UTF8 > >> http://extension.usu.edu/publica/natrpubs/voles.pdf > >> http://extension.ag.uidaho.edu/district4/MG/voles.html > >> http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html > >> > >> > >> To cover your selfish pleasure of using usenet, and > >> maintaining a web page on same, here's are a couple > >> dealing with power and communications. > >> http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html > >> http://www.towerkill.com/index.html > >> > >> > > > > > > |
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"rick etter" > wrote in message ink.net... 8< > LOL Hardly the standard by which most vegans eat, fool. You spend all > your spew complaining about the meat-industry No I have a day job Rick, I don't spend all day anything. > as if it were the same for all > meat production, All meat production has to end in the death of a sentient animal. Cows and pigs are actually quite pleasant and friendly to humans, why not return the gesture? It seems to me you are less than a cow or pig. > yet get upset when the same standard of typical crop > production is used on you. Why is that killer? You can't have it both > ways. Now, let's see what you infer - one bunch of meat eaters kills loads of animals in fields, and another in slaughter houses, so that is okay, and vegans are the killers? I suppose you consider yourself to be sane?? > Besides, you get no where near all your foods from these 'organic' > producers. Yes I do. > You don't have the seasons, nor the scale of production needed. You are right, 70% of UK organic food is imported, much from Spain. Most the farmers here are content to poison the land, insects, birds and people who eat their food, but of course, they are not vegans and don't care so much about the "value of life". And some go on to get cancer and other diseases from messing with agrochemicals. > Now, if you would suppliment the organic food you do eat with one grass fed > cow, and refuse to buy all the rest of the mass produced crops you eat, then > you'd really be working toward a lower death toll. But then, you aren't > really after saving animals, are you killer? You prove that with each > unnecessary inane post you make to usenet. As usual, no facts, no logic, just rhetoric and offensive insults. Why does it not occur to you that all this death of animals is caused by meat eaters, and not vegans? It kills your BS dead on the spot. John |
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"John Coleman" > wrote in message ... > > "rick etter" > wrote in message > ink.net... > 8< >> LOL Hardly the standard by which most vegans eat, fool. You spend >> all >> your spew complaining about the meat-industry > > No I have a day job Rick, I don't spend all day anything. ==================== I guess maybe english isn't your first language, eh killer? Try reading the statement again, this time for comprehension. Where did I say anything about 'all day?' > >> as if it were the same for all >> meat production, > > All meat production has to end in the death of a sentient animal. Cows and > pigs are actually quite pleasant and friendly to humans, why not return > the > gesture? It seems to me you are less than a cow or pig. ==================== And since you seem to gleefully cause the deaths of mice and such, I guess you are less than a rat? See, you have nothing. You can't even discuss the issue, fool. You cannot prove your claims, nor refute mine, and have to resort to your ignorant game of spew.... > >> yet get upset when the same standard of typical crop >> production is used on you. Why is that killer? You can't have it both >> ways. > > Now, let's see what you infer - one bunch of meat eaters kills loads of > animals in fields, and another in slaughter houses, so that is okay, and > vegans are the killers? I suppose you consider yourself to be sane?? ================ Far more so than you. You can't even read with any sort of comprehension. Again, we are all killers, fool. It's vegans that try to pretend that they are not. Like you, when confronted with the evidence, you run for the inane spew routine... Typical, but hardly worthy of real discussion. But then, you've really nothing to say anyway, do you? > >> Besides, you get no where near all your foods from these 'organic' >> producers. > > Yes I do. ================= No, you don't. You even said as much in another post. > >> You don't have the seasons, nor the scale of production needed. > > You are right, 70% of UK organic food is imported, much from Spain. ========================== ROTFLMAO What a hoot!!! How does supporting the petro-chemical industry by importing obviously tons and tons of your food come anywhere near to being 'organic?' Oh maybe the growth was, but the subsequent processing, storage and transportaion hardly then qualifies as cruelty-free in any sence of the term. You reall are too much, hypocrite. You've just lost, again. Now you have nothing on terms of having a more cruelty-free diet than someone that eats grass-fed beef or game. Most the > farmers here are content to poison the land, insects, birds and people who > eat their food, but of course, they are not vegans and don't care so much > about the "value of life". And some go on to get cancer and other diseases > from messing with agrochemicals. ==================== And of course *you* care enough to condone/contribute to the importation of massive amounts of food that uses up large amounts of resources and causes massive amounts of environmental damage. Oh yeah, those don't happen in your backyard, so yet again, just like the dead bodies you never see, you never see the rest of the harm you contribute to either. What a self-righteous, self-absorbed piece of crap you are! > >> Now, if you would suppliment the organic food you do eat with one grass > fed >> cow, and refuse to buy all the rest of the mass produced crops you eat, > then >> you'd really be working toward a lower death toll. But then, you aren't >> really after saving animals, are you killer? You prove that with each >> unnecessary inane post you make to usenet. > > As usual, no facts, no logic, just rhetoric and offensive insults. ===================== LOL I've posted facts fool, *YOU* have posted none! Come on, prove your inane spew, or refute mine with some proof. You can't, because you know you are beaten and all you have is your ignorant spew... Why does > it not occur to you that all this death of animals is caused by meat > eaters, > and not vegans? ======================== What are you on about now, fool? I kill animals, you kill animals. I claim that ny diet causes fewer animal to suffer and die. And I know for sure that I cause less horrible, inhumane deaths of animals than you do! At least the ones i eat die quite humane deaths compared to the ones you kill.... It kills your BS dead on the spot. ================== You haven't done that yet. You haven't even come close. You can't even answer the questions I ask. Why is that killer? > > John > > |
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"rick etter" > wrote in message ink.net... > I guess maybe english isn't your first language, eh killer? Try reading > the statement again, this time for comprehension. Where did I say anything > about 'all day?' well, it was a late night for me > >> as if it were the same for all > >> meat production, > > > > All meat production has to end in the death of a sentient animal. Cows and > > pigs are actually quite pleasant and friendly to humans, why not return > > the > > gesture? It seems to me you are less than a cow or pig. > ==================== > And since you seem to gleefully cause the deaths of mice and such, I don't cause the death of mice Rick, your meat eating farmer buddies do becaus ethey don't care about animals, they have to deliver profits. > > Now, let's see what you infer - one bunch of meat eaters kills loads of > > animals in fields, and another in slaughter houses, so that is okay, and > > vegans are the killers? I suppose you consider yourself to be sane?? > ================ > Far more so than you. You can't even read with any sort of comprehension. > Again, we are all killers, fool. What did I kill today Rick? > It's vegans that try to pretend that they > are not. No we don't Rick, we simply want to arrange thing so as to reduce exploitation of animals. > Like you, when confronted with the evidence, you run for the inane > spew routine... Typical, but hardly worthy of real discussion. But then, > you've really nothing to say anyway, do you? No, throwing out insults and refusing to address the agenda is your tactic. > No, you don't. You even said as much in another post. I rarely eat anything that is not organic. > ROTFLMAO What a hoot!!! How does supporting the petro-chemical industry > by importing obviously tons and tons of your food come anywhere near to > being 'organic?' Oh maybe the growth was, but the subsequent processing, > storage and transportaion hardly then qualifies as cruelty-free in any sence > of the term. You reall are too much, hypocrite. You've just lost, again. No I have not Rick. Again you are confusing Ludites with Vegans, this is one of your old tactics. The folk who don't care about animals are all meat eaters, if you really care you identify with veganism. Most the food production here is not organic, and hence also heavily dependant on petrochemical poisons. I have to take what is on offer, there is no veganic food because vegans don't run the agricultural system, meat eaters do. Anyway, pasture fed cattle produce loads of methane, I think I read they contribute 2% of greenhouse gasses. If fruit and nut trees where planted out on those pastures, then that would lock down carbon. > Now you have nothing on terms of having a more cruelty-free diet than > someone that eats grass-fed beef or game. I do, I have the willingness to eat a veganic diet if careless meat eater farmers would bother to produce it. Why do you dog vegans for the killing activity of meat eaters, and their petrochemical insanity? How many people in government are vegan Rick? How many of the people who do control food production are vegans Rick, what percentage would you think it is? Why do you repetativly blame these crimes on those who condemn them and seek to live differently? I expect you would blame the holocaust on the jews because they helped build the camps themselves. Rick, when something is imposed on people by others, and that something is bad, then it is those who do the imposing that are responsible. > And of course *you* care enough to condone/contribute to the importation of > massive amounts of food that uses up large amounts of resources and causes > massive amounts of environmental damage. I don't condone it Rick, I just prefer it to starvation, or being poisoned. > never see the rest of the harm you contribute to either. What a > self-righteous, self-absorbed piece of crap you are! That is a good description of you. > LOL I've posted facts fool, *YOU* have posted none! Where are these facts? Name 1 expert who support any of your contentions with some good numbers. > Come on, prove your > inane spew, or refute mine with some proof. You can't, because you know you > are beaten and all you have is your ignorant spew... I don't need to refute anything that you can't support with facts and logic. Your case doesn't stand on its own merit. > What are you on about now, fool? I kill animals, you kill animals. I claim > that ny diet causes fewer animal to suffer and die. And I know for sure > that I cause less horrible, inhumane deaths of animals than you do! You know no such thing Rick, you believe it. I asked you to supply comparative numbers, you failed. > least the ones i eat die quite humane deaths compared to the ones you > kill.... Humane deaths? An oxymoron surely. I don't kill anything Rick. > You haven't done that yet. You haven't even come close. You can't even > answer the questions I ask. Why is that killer? I've addressed all of your various fallacies. From your misleading habit of calligng everyone a killer, to your unsupported claims that you cause less death by eating meat. John |
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"John Coleman" > wrote in message ... > > "rick etter" > wrote in message > ink.net... >> I guess maybe english isn't your first language, eh killer? Try reading >> the statement again, this time for comprehension. Where did I say > anything >> about 'all day?' > > well, it was a late night for me > >> >> as if it were the same for all >> >> meat production, >> > >> > All meat production has to end in the death of a sentient animal. Cows > and >> > pigs are actually quite pleasant and friendly to humans, why not return >> > the >> > gesture? It seems to me you are less than a cow or pig. >> ==================== >> And since you seem to gleefully cause the deaths of mice and such, > > I don't cause the death of mice Rick, your meat eating farmer buddies do > becaus ethey don't care about animals, they have to deliver profits. ====================== Sure, but *you* still reward them for producing in a way that makes it cheap for *you*. Now, if you really cared about animals you could pay them to produce food just for you in cruelty-free ways. Problem is, *your* convienence and affordability come first, not the lives of animals. You condone and pay for the death and suffering of animals for your convienence. Plus, you contribute to there deaths for nothing more than your selfish entertainemnt How do you try to weasel out of the unnecessary death and suffering by posting here on usenet, killer? > >> > Now, let's see what you infer - one bunch of meat eaters kills loads of >> > animals in fields, and another in slaughter houses, so that is okay, >> > and >> > vegans are the killers? I suppose you consider yourself to be sane?? >> ================ >> Far more so than you. You can't even read with any sort of >> comprehension. >> Again, we are all killers, fool. > > What did I kill today Rick? ======================= What did I kill today, afterall, you keep claiming that that is all I do. Like you, I probably caused the deaths of any number of animals, starting with the salad that I had for lunch, and continueing to the posts I'm making on usenet. Unlike you though, I don't pretend I live my life in a vacuum, telling myself lys and delusions.... > >> It's vegans that try to pretend that they >> are not. > > No we don't Rick, we simply want to arrange thing so as to reduce > exploitation of animals. ======================= Yet you don't. That's the point fool!!! You prove that you do not even try with each and every inane post you make to usenet, hypocrite. > >> Like you, when confronted with the evidence, you run for the inane >> spew routine... Typical, but hardly worthy of real discussion. But >> then, >> you've really nothing to say anyway, do you? > > No, throwing out insults and refusing to address the agenda is your > tactic. ================== LOL I've addressed the issue, and provided proof of my claims. You have done neither. Give it a try killer. Come on, defend your lys with facts, or refute my facts. Be a hero, fool. > >> No, you don't. You even said as much in another post. > > I rarely eat anything that is not organic. =============== That's not what you implied... "...But I don't choose to buy non veganic products, I simply don't have a choice...." Spin away, hypocrite... > >> ROTFLMAO What a hoot!!! How does supporting the petro-chemical > industry >> by importing obviously tons and tons of your food come anywhere near to >> being 'organic?' Oh maybe the growth was, but the subsequent processing, >> storage and transportaion hardly then qualifies as cruelty-free in any > sence >> of the term. You reall are too much, hypocrite. You've just lost, >> again. > > No I have not Rick. Again you are confusing Ludites with Vegans, this is > one > of your old tactics. The folk who don't care about animals are all meat > eaters, if you really care you identify with veganism. ============================== You've yet to prove that vegan care anthing about animals. All you've done so far is prove that you care nothing about causing unnecessary animal death and suffering. You keep posting your inane spew to usenet. There is no need. There is no necessity. You post for your entertainemnt. Therefore, you care nothing about the animals that die due to your demand for power and communications. Most the food > production here is not organic, and hence also heavily dependant on > petrochemical poisons. I have to take what is on offer, there is no > veganic > food because vegans don't run the agricultural system, meat eaters do. =========================== You could change that if animals were of a real concern to you. They aren't, your convienence comes first, hypocrite. > Anyway, pasture fed cattle produce loads of methane, I think I read they > contribute 2% of greenhouse gasses. If fruit and nut trees where planted > out > on those pastures, then that would lock down carbon. > >> Now you have nothing on terms of having a more cruelty-free diet than >> someone that eats grass-fed beef or game. > > I do, I have the willingness to eat a veganic diet if careless meat eater > farmers would bother to produce it. ========================== Hey fool, they produce what *you* reward them for producing. Change the production methods by paying them what *your* so-called morals demands of you. You won't, because for you it's all about the hatred of others, not doing what you can to reduce your bloody footprints. It's far too easy for you to blame others than to take a real stand that would be an inconvience, eh killer? Why do you dog vegans for the killing > activity of meat eaters, and their petrochemical insanity? ====================== Because *you* are the one rewarding him for producing your food. Besides, why do *you* assume that ALL farmers eat meat? Because of your hate and delusions? How many people > in government are vegan Rick? How many of the people who do control food > production are vegans Rick, what percentage would you think it is? Why do > you repetativly blame these crimes on those who condemn them and seek to > live differently? ========================= Because *you* are the one condoming and rewarding the behaviour you claim to hate. Why do you do that? You could make other choices, but your convienence would suffer, and you won't stand for that, hypocrite. > > I expect you would blame the holocaust on the jews because they helped > build > the camps themselves. Rick, when something is imposed on people by others, > and that something is bad, then it is those who do the imposing that are > responsible. ================== Ah yes, the typical vegan spew of jews... You hate is right on time, killer. You could instead prove you ignorant claims, but no, you have to resort to the old vegan standby spews... > >> And of course *you* care enough to condone/contribute to the importation > of >> massive amounts of food that uses up large amounts of resources and >> causes >> massive amounts of environmental damage. > > I don't condone it Rick, I just prefer it to starvation, or being > poisoned. ===================== You could make other choices! That's the point fool! You won't, because your convienence would suffer, and because of your simple rule for your simple mind! > >> never see the rest of the harm you contribute to either. What a >> self-righteous, self-absorbed piece of crap you are! > > That is a good description of you. ================== I suggest you look up the terms, fool. Again, english must not be your first language, eh killer? I'm not the one claiming one thing, and then doing something else. That's you, hypocrite. > >> LOL I've posted facts fool, *YOU* have posted none! > > Where are these facts? Name 1 expert who support any of your contentions > with some good numbers. ================= You've already ignored them in several posts, fool. Go try reading them. > >> Come on, prove your >> inane spew, or refute mine with some proof. You can't, because you know > you >> are beaten and all you have is your ignorant spew... > > I don't need to refute anything that you can't support with facts and > logic. > Your case doesn't stand on its own merit. ===================== It already does stand fool. I've proven it, and one sure sign is the fact that *you* have ignored the facts I posted. That's typical for a vegan caught in their lys. > >> What are you on about now, fool? I kill animals, you kill animals. I > claim >> that ny diet causes fewer animal to suffer and die. And I know for sure >> that I cause less horrible, inhumane deaths of animals than you do! > > You know no such thing Rick, you believe it. I asked you to supply > comparative numbers, you failed. ================== No, I did not. I've given you numbers, several times. You ignore them. Typical, since you can't refute them. > >> least the ones i eat die quite humane deaths compared to the ones you >> kill.... > > Humane deaths? An oxymoron surely. I don't kill anything Rick. ======================== No, it's not. Usenet vegans is an oxy-moron. But then, all vegans I've seen here are morons... Yes, you do. Animals by the millions and millions.... > >> You haven't done that yet. You haven't even come close. You can't even >> answer the questions I ask. Why is that killer? > > I've addressed all of your various fallacies. ==================== No you have not... From your misleading habit of > calligng everyone a killer, to your unsupported claims that you cause less > death by eating meat. ========================== Everyone is a killer, stupid. I've supported my numbers. You have yet to provide even one shred of proof of your claims. I'm not holding my breath for you to do so anythime soon though. > > John > > |
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That One Guy wrote: > Hi, > I used to be vegan for like two weeks a few months ago, since then I > have relized my mistake. I was getting yelled at for my political > veiws by the vegans at veganforum.com I can't beleive the way the were > acting! Anyways, they were all ganging up on me and stuff and now > they have > pushed me away from that way of thinking for ever. I should have just > listened > to you from the start, Rick Thanks! > - Matt > P.S. I will Never go veg again. It's really not a good idea to base a decision on meeting a small group of people you don't like. Research the issue from a biological and scientific point of view. Perhaps you should read the information on the Union of Concerned Scientists. Rick Etterer obviously has a strange agenda, coming to a vegan new group to attack them. Obviously he has a strange personality/hostile disorder. There are many health benefits to a vegan diet. There are many health problems associated with eating meat, from cardio disorders, cancers of the digestive system, breast cancer, and such. The only supplement that may be indicated is vitamin B12. Try and make a decision based on a wider population and using your own evaluation. Beach Runner. |
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"Beach Runner" > wrote in message . .. > > > That One Guy wrote: > >> Hi, >> I used to be vegan for like two weeks a few months ago, since then I >> have relized my mistake. I was getting yelled at for my political veiws >> by the vegans at veganforum.com I can't beleive the way the were >> acting! Anyways, they were all ganging up on me and stuff and now >> they have >> pushed me away from that way of thinking for ever. I should have just >> listened >> to you from the start, Rick Thanks! - Matt >> P.S. I will Never go veg again. > > > It's really not a good idea to base a decision on meeting a small group of > people you don't like. Research the issue from a biological and scientific > point of view. Perhaps you should read the information on > the Union of Concerned Scientists. Rick Etterer obviously has a strange > agenda, coming to a vegan new group to attack them. ==================== No, I do not attack them. Unlike you, I tell people the truth. There are no usenet vegans, period. There are hypocritical waanabes, but none that can really get of the courage to actually make changes than really mean anything. All they have is a simple rule for their simple minds, 'eat no meat.' Pretending to be vegan does not automayically meant that you kill no/fewer/less animals than other diets. It's a religion, and like all religions it's based only on faith, not fact. Obviously he has a > strange personality/hostile disorder. ================== ROTFLMAO This from people that make themselves the fringe of society and then complain that nobody cares, and from those that take glee in the death of people, and wish others dead. > > There are many health benefits to a vegan diet. ==================== Yet nowhere that has long-lived, healthy population set is vegan. Okinawa, Azerbaijan. There are many health > problems associated with eating meat, from cardio disorders, cancers of > the digestive system, breast cancer, and such. ===================== Which are not issue of 'veganism.' The only supplement that > may be indicated is vitamin B12. ================== Which again makes you diet non-vegan. What a hoot! How many animals are you willing to kill to manufacture, process and ship these suppliments, hypocrite? The death of one animal would supply your needs for years and years. > > Try and make a decision based on a wider population and using your own > evaluation. ================ Sure, I urge that also. Your problem is that you want him to base his decision on lys, delusions and faith, not fact. Now, go have that nice blood-drenched dinner, killer. > > > Beach Runner. |
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rick etter wrote: > "Beach Runner" > wrote in message > . .. > >> >>That One Guy wrote: >> >> >>>Hi, >>> I used to be vegan for like two weeks a few months ago, since then I >>>have relized my mistake. I was getting yelled at for my political veiws >>>by the vegans at veganforum.com I can't beleive the way the were >>>acting! Anyways, they were all ganging up on me and stuff and now >>>they have >>>pushed me away from that way of thinking for ever. I should have just >>>listened >>>to you from the start, Rick Thanks! - Matt >>>P.S. I will Never go veg again. >> >> >>It's really not a good idea to base a decision on meeting a small group of >>people you don't like. Research the issue from a biological and scientific >>point of view. Perhaps you should read the information on >>the Union of Concerned Scientists. Rick Etterer obviously has a strange >>agenda, coming to a vegan new group to attack them. > > ==================== > No, I do not attack them. Unlike you, I tell people the truth. There are > no usenet vegans, period. There are hypocritical waanabes, but none that > can really get of the courage to actually make changes than really mean > anything. All they have is a simple rule for their simple minds, 'eat no > meat.' Pretending to be vegan does not automayically meant that you kill > no/fewer/less animals than other diets. It's a religion, and like all > religions it's based only on faith, not fact. > > > > Obviously he has a > >>strange personality/hostile disorder. > > ================== > ROTFLMAO This from people that make themselves the fringe of society and > then complain that nobody cares, and from those that take glee in the death > of people, and wish others dead. > > > >>There are many health benefits to a vegan diet. > > ==================== > Yet nowhere that has long-lived, healthy population set is vegan. Okinawa, > Azerbaijan. > > > There are many health > >>problems associated with eating meat, from cardio disorders, cancers of >>the digestive system, breast cancer, and such. > > ===================== > Which are not issue of 'veganism.' > > The only supplement that > >>may be indicated is vitamin B12. > > ================== > Which again makes you diet non-vegan. What a hoot! How many animals are > you willing to kill to manufacture, process and ship these suppliments, > hypocrite? The death of one animal would supply your needs for years and > years. > I researched it. My B12 shots are synthetic. > > >>Try and make a decision based on a wider population and using your own >>evaluation. > > ================ > Sure, I urge that also. Your problem is that you want him to base his > decision on lys, delusions and faith, not fact. > > > Now, go have that nice blood-drenched dinner, killer. > Calling me a killer is just plain stupid. Eating lower on the food chain does not make me a killer. Not supporting factory farms does not make me a killer. However, going into a group of vegans and attacking them is an indication of a personality disorder. >> >>Beach Runner. > > > |
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"Beach Runner" > wrote in message . .. > > > rick etter wrote: >> "Beach Runner" > wrote in message >> . .. >> >>> >>>That One Guy wrote: >>> >>> >>>>Hi, >>>> I used to be vegan for like two weeks a few months ago, since then I >>>>have relized my mistake. I was getting yelled at for my political veiws >>>>by the vegans at veganforum.com I can't beleive the way the were >>>>acting! Anyways, they were all ganging up on me and stuff and now >>>>they have >>>>pushed me away from that way of thinking for ever. I should have just >>>>listened >>>>to you from the start, Rick Thanks! - Matt >>>>P.S. I will Never go veg again. >>> >>> >>>It's really not a good idea to base a decision on meeting a small group >>>of people you don't like. Research the issue from a biological and >>>scientific point of view. Perhaps you should read the information on >>>the Union of Concerned Scientists. Rick Etterer obviously has a strange >>>agenda, coming to a vegan new group to attack them. >> >> ==================== >> No, I do not attack them. Unlike you, I tell people the truth. There >> are no usenet vegans, period. There are hypocritical waanabes, but none >> that can really get of the courage to actually make changes than really >> mean anything. All they have is a simple rule for their simple minds, >> 'eat no meat.' Pretending to be vegan does not automayically meant that >> you kill no/fewer/less animals than other diets. It's a religion, and >> like all religions it's based only on faith, not fact. >> >> >> >> Obviously he has a >> >>>strange personality/hostile disorder. >> >> ================== >> ROTFLMAO This from people that make themselves the fringe of society and >> then complain that nobody cares, and from those that take glee in the >> death of people, and wish others dead. ================ No comment eh? Guess you agree about the hatred displayed by vegans. Must be a dietary effect, eh killer? >> >> >> >>>There are many health benefits to a vegan diet. >> >> ==================== >> Yet nowhere that has long-lived, healthy population set is vegan. >> Okinawa, Azerbaijan. >> >> >> There are many health >> >>>problems associated with eating meat, from cardio disorders, cancers of >>>the digestive system, breast cancer, and such. >> >> ===================== >> Which are not issue of 'veganism.' >> >> The only supplement that >> >>>may be indicated is vitamin B12. >> >> ================== >> Which again makes you diet non-vegan. What a hoot! How many animals >> are you willing to kill to manufacture, process and ship these >> suppliments, hypocrite? The death of one animal would supply your needs >> for years and years. >> > I researched it. My B12 shots are synthetic. ==================== LOL Exactly. Now, tell me how they synthesize your b12 without using any output from the petro-chemical industry. Like I said, just because you don't see the bodies doesn't mesn that that your diet/lifestyle is cruelty-free, or death-free. > > >> >> >>>Try and make a decision based on a wider population and using your own >>>evaluation. >> >> ================ >> Sure, I urge that also. Your problem is that you want him to base his >> decision on lys, delusions and faith, not fact. >> >> >> Now, go have that nice blood-drenched dinner, killer. >> > Calling me a killer is just plain stupid. ================== No, it isn't. You are a killer. I am a killer. veryone is a killer. That you like to pretend otherwise is part of your religion of veganism. All faith and no facts. Eating lower on the food > chain does not make me a killer. Not supporting factory farms does not > make me a killer. ===================== ROTFLMAO You do support factory-famrs fools. Mono-culture crop farming is far more a 'factory' than many animal operations. Plus, even at that, you *do* support the 'factory-farmed' meat operations you so despise. How much of any crop do you eat? 20%? 50%? Face it, people eat very little of many crops. Take corn, you eat those nice little kernels. Why not the stalk? The leaves? The cob? The silk? That's all 'waste' as far as you are concerned, but much of it ends of as silage for animals. Looks to me like you do then support the hated meat industry hypocrite. > > However, going into a group of vegans and attacking them is an indication > of a personality disorder. ===================== Again, I'm not attacking you. I'm displaying the ignorance and stupidity you spew. I can see how you wouldn't like having your religion stripped of its delusions and lys and consider that an attack. But again, it's all part of your education. Something you are sorely lacking in regards to the truth about your diet/lifestyle. Now, if you feel you can provide facts to defend your deusions, be my gueat. I've been asking for that proof for years. Be a hero, prove your lys... Now, go have that nice blood-drenched dinner, killer. > >>> >>>Beach Runner. >> >> |
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rick etter wrote: > "Beach Runner" > wrote in message > . .. > >> >>rick etter wrote: >> >>>"Beach Runner" > wrote in message om... >>> >>> >>>>That One Guy wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>Hi, >>>>> I used to be vegan for like two weeks a few months ago, since then I >>>>>have relized my mistake. I was getting yelled at for my political veiws >>>>>by the vegans at veganforum.com I can't beleive the way the were >>>>>acting! Anyways, they were all ganging up on me and stuff and now >>>>>they have >>>>>pushed me away from that way of thinking for ever. I should have just >>>>>listened >>>>>to you from the start, Rick Thanks! - Matt >>>>>P.S. I will Never go veg again. >>>> >>>> >>>>It's really not a good idea to base a decision on meeting a small group >>>>of people you don't like. Research the issue from a biological and >>>>scientific point of view. Perhaps you should read the information on >>>>the Union of Concerned Scientists. Rick Etterer obviously has a strange >>>>agenda, coming to a vegan new group to attack them. >>> >>>==================== >>>No, I do not attack them. Unlike you, I tell people the truth. There >>>are no usenet vegans, period. There are hypocritical waanabes, but none >>>that can really get of the courage to actually make changes than really >>>mean anything. All they have is a simple rule for their simple minds, >>>'eat no meat.' Pretending to be vegan does not automayically meant that >>>you kill no/fewer/less animals than other diets. It's a religion, and >>>like all religions it's based only on faith, not fact. >>> >>> >>> >>> Obviously he has a >>> >>> >>>>strange personality/hostile disorder. >>> >>>================== >>>ROTFLMAO This from people that make themselves the fringe of society and >>>then complain that nobody cares, and from those that take glee in the >>>death of people, and wish others dead. > > ================ > No comment eh? Guess you agree about the hatred displayed by vegans. Must > be a dietary effect, eh killer? > > > >>> >>> >>>>There are many health benefits to a vegan diet. >>> >>>==================== >>>Yet nowhere that has long-lived, healthy population set is vegan. >>>Okinawa, Azerbaijan. >>> >>> >>> There are many health >>> >>> >>>>problems associated with eating meat, from cardio disorders, cancers of >>>>the digestive system, breast cancer, and such. >>> >>>===================== >>>Which are not issue of 'veganism.' >>> >>> The only supplement that >>> >>> >>>>may be indicated is vitamin B12. >>> >>>================== >>>Which again makes you diet non-vegan. What a hoot! How many animals >>>are you willing to kill to manufacture, process and ship these >>>suppliments, hypocrite? The death of one animal would supply your needs >>>for years and years. >>> >> >>I researched it. My B12 shots are synthetic. > > ==================== > LOL Exactly. Now, tell me how they synthesize your b12 without using any > output from the petro-chemical industry. Like I said, just because you > don't see the bodies doesn't mesn that that your diet/lifestyle is > cruelty-free, or death-free. > > > >> >>> >>>>Try and make a decision based on a wider population and using your own >>>>evaluation. >>> >>>================ >>>Sure, I urge that also. Your problem is that you want him to base his >>>decision on lys, delusions and faith, not fact. >>> >>> >>>Now, go have that nice blood-drenched dinner, killer. >>> >> >>Calling me a killer is just plain stupid. > > ================== > No, it isn't. You are a killer. I am a killer. veryone is a killer. > That you like to pretend otherwise is part of your religion of veganism. > All faith and no facts. > > > Eating lower on the food > >>chain does not make me a killer. Not supporting factory farms does not >>make me a killer. > > ===================== > ROTFLMAO You do support factory-famrs fools. Mono-culture crop farming > is far more a 'factory' than many animal operations. Plus, even at that, > you *do* support the 'factory-farmed' meat operations you so despise. How > much of any crop do you eat? 20%? 50%? Face it, people eat very little > of many crops. Take corn, you eat those nice little kernels. Why not the > stalk? The leaves? The cob? The silk? That's all 'waste' as far as you > are concerned, but much of it ends of as silage for animals. Looks to me > like you do then support the hated meat industry hypocrite. > > > >>However, going into a group of vegans and attacking them is an indication >>of a personality disorder. > > ===================== > Again, I'm not attacking you. I'm displaying the ignorance and stupidity > you spew. I can see how you wouldn't like having your religion stripped of > its delusions and lys and consider that an attack. But again, it's all part > of your education. Something you are sorely lacking in regards to the truth > about your diet/lifestyle. > > Now, if you feel you can provide facts to defend your deusions, be my gueat. > I've been asking for that proof for years. Be a hero, prove your lys... > > > Now, go have that nice blood-drenched dinner, killer. > > >>>>Beach Runner. >>> >>> > I'm sorry, but you are sadly mistaken. To produce a pound of beef, it takes seven times as much food to produce it as to eat the vegetables themselves. So your basic fallacy is wrong. Just go to the Union of Concerned Scientists for a scientific analysis rather that spew your hate. |
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rick etter wrote: > "Beach Runner" > wrote in message > . .. > >> >>rick etter wrote: >> >>>"Beach Runner" > wrote in message om... >>> >>> >>>>That One Guy wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>Hi, >>>>> I used to be vegan for like two weeks a few months ago, since then I >>>>>have relized my mistake. I was getting yelled at for my political veiws >>>>>by the vegans at veganforum.com I can't beleive the way the were >>>>>acting! Anyways, they were all ganging up on me and stuff and now >>>>>they have >>>>>pushed me away from that way of thinking for ever. I should have just >>>>>listened >>>>>to you from the start, Rick Thanks! - Matt >>>>>P.S. I will Never go veg again. >>>> >>>> >>>>It's really not a good idea to base a decision on meeting a small group >>>>of people you don't like. Research the issue from a biological and >>>>scientific point of view. Perhaps you should read the information on >>>>the Union of Concerned Scientists. Rick Etterer obviously has a strange >>>>agenda, coming to a vegan new group to attack them. >>> >>>==================== >>>No, I do not attack them. Unlike you, I tell people the truth. There >>>are no usenet vegans, period. There are hypocritical waanabes, but none >>>that can really get of the courage to actually make changes than really >>>mean anything. All they have is a simple rule for their simple minds, >>>'eat no meat.' Pretending to be vegan does not automayically meant that >>>you kill no/fewer/less animals than other diets. It's a religion, and >>>like all religions it's based only on faith, not fact. >>> >>> >>> >>> Obviously he has a >>> >>> >>>>strange personality/hostile disorder. >>> >>>================== >>>ROTFLMAO This from people that make themselves the fringe of society and >>>then complain that nobody cares, and from those that take glee in the >>>death of people, and wish others dead. > > ================ > No comment eh? Guess you agree about the hatred displayed by vegans. Must > be a dietary effect, eh killer? > > > >>> >>> >>>>There are many health benefits to a vegan diet. >>> >>>==================== >>>Yet nowhere that has long-lived, healthy population set is vegan. >>>Okinawa, Azerbaijan. >>> >>> >>> There are many health >>> >>> >>>>problems associated with eating meat, from cardio disorders, cancers of >>>>the digestive system, breast cancer, and such. >>> >>>===================== >>>Which are not issue of 'veganism.' >>> >>> The only supplement that >>> >>> >>>>may be indicated is vitamin B12. >>> >>>================== >>>Which again makes you diet non-vegan. What a hoot! How many animals >>>are you willing to kill to manufacture, process and ship these >>>suppliments, hypocrite? The death of one animal would supply your needs >>>for years and years. >>> >> >>I researched it. My B12 shots are synthetic. > > ==================== > LOL Exactly. Now, tell me how they synthesize your b12 without using any > output from the petro-chemical industry. Like I said, just because you > don't see the bodies doesn't mesn that that your diet/lifestyle is > cruelty-free, or death-free. > > > >> >>> >>>>Try and make a decision based on a wider population and using your own >>>>evaluation. >>> >>>================ >>>Sure, I urge that also. Your problem is that you want him to base his >>>decision on lys, delusions and faith, not fact. >>> >>> >>>Now, go have that nice blood-drenched dinner, killer. >>> >> >>Calling me a killer is just plain stupid. > > ================== > No, it isn't. You are a killer. I am a killer. veryone is a killer. > That you like to pretend otherwise is part of your religion of veganism. > All faith and no facts. > > > Eating lower on the food > >>chain does not make me a killer. Not supporting factory farms does not >>make me a killer. > > ===================== > ROTFLMAO You do support factory-famrs fools. Mono-culture crop farming > is far more a 'factory' than many animal operations. Plus, even at that, > you *do* support the 'factory-farmed' meat operations you so despise. How > much of any crop do you eat? 20%? 50%? Face it, people eat very little > of many crops. Take corn, you eat those nice little kernels. Why not the > stalk? The leaves? The cob? The silk? That's all 'waste' as far as you > are concerned, but much of it ends of as silage for animals. Looks to me > like you do then support the hated meat industry hypocrite. > > > >>However, going into a group of vegans and attacking them is an indication >>of a personality disorder. > > ===================== > Again, I'm not attacking you. I'm displaying the ignorance and stupidity > you spew. I can see how you wouldn't like having your religion stripped of > its delusions and lys and consider that an attack. But again, it's all part > of your education. Something you are sorely lacking in regards to the truth > about your diet/lifestyle. > > Now, if you feel you can provide facts to defend your deusions, be my gueat. > I've been asking for that proof for years. Be a hero, prove your lys... > > > Now, go have that nice blood-drenched dinner, killer. > > >>>>Beach Runner. >>> >>> > I'm sorry, but you are sadly mistaken. To produce a pound of beef, it takes seven times as much food to produce it as to eat the vegetables themselves. So your basic fallacy is wrong. Just go to the Union of Concerned Scientists for a scientific analysis rather that spew your hate. |
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On Sat, 06 Nov 2004 23:00:35 GMT, "John Coleman" > wrote:
> > wrote in message .. . >> On Sat, 06 Nov 2004 07:52:43 -0500, Steve > wrote: >> >> >Hi Matt; >> > >> >You know, I have met vegans that I have not liked as people. >> > >> >I have also met people at my job I haven't liked, at the university I >> >attended, doctors I haven't liked, etc etc. >> > >> >That did not lead to me quitting my carrer, school, not getting medical >> >care etc. >> > >> >No matter what group you belong to you are going to meet people you do >> >not like. >> > >> >Half a dozen or so folks in one isloted a forum,..., on the internet >> >does not represent an entire group of people. >> > >> >I wouldn't give up health benefits for myself, a contribution I can make >> >to preserving the environment, and a contribution I can make to reducing >> >cruelty simply because I met a few people who insulted me. >> > >> >No offense, just food for thought. >> > >> >Steve >> >> Etter is right. Nothing is going to change that, no matter who you >> like or who you don't like. Matt finally allowed himself to consider >> reality, and now you're trying to talk him out of it. Will Matt revert >> back to the land of make believe, or will he hang with reality? If he >> hangs he may consider a lifestyle which contributes to decent lives >> for farm animals--which veg*nism certainly does not--and he may >> begin to consume animal products which contribute to fewer deaths >> than some vegetable products, which vegans can not. > >Where are the numebrs showing a meat died causes fewer animal deaths than a >plant base one? Do you also believe that pigs and cows tiptoe through the >meadow, Stick with cattle. They might kill a few insects, but they don't do the damage that growing crops produces. >that chickens never peck up a few insects? I imagine the majority of chickens never get the chance to eat any insects. But growing grain to feed them and the pigs causes deaths in crop fields, the same as growing grain for humans. >Veganism is about animal exploitation, That explains why you don't mind contributing to the deaths of wildlife in order to take their food and their homes. >not numbers of animals dead, nor is >veganism Luditism. So Etter is wrong on both those counts, and he has never >provided a single scrap of convincing evidence to support his claim that a >plant based diet causes more animal deaths. > >It is you and Etter who live in a land of make believe. · From the life and death of a thousand pound grass raised steer and whatever he happens to kill during his life, people get over 500 pounds of human consumable meat...that's well over 500 servings of meat. From a grass raised dairy cow people get thousands of dairy servings. Due to the influence of farm machinery, and *icides, and in the case of rice the flooding and draining of fields, one meal of soy or rice based product is likely to involve more animal deaths than hundreds of meals derived from grass raised cattle. Grass raised animal products contribute to less wildlife deaths, better wildlife habitat, and better lives for livestock than soy or rice products. · |
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On Sat, 06 Nov 2004 23:00:35 GMT, "John Coleman" > wrote:
> > wrote in message .. . >> On Sat, 06 Nov 2004 07:52:43 -0500, Steve > wrote: >> >> >Hi Matt; >> > >> >You know, I have met vegans that I have not liked as people. >> > >> >I have also met people at my job I haven't liked, at the university I >> >attended, doctors I haven't liked, etc etc. >> > >> >That did not lead to me quitting my carrer, school, not getting medical >> >care etc. >> > >> >No matter what group you belong to you are going to meet people you do >> >not like. >> > >> >Half a dozen or so folks in one isloted a forum,..., on the internet >> >does not represent an entire group of people. >> > >> >I wouldn't give up health benefits for myself, a contribution I can make >> >to preserving the environment, and a contribution I can make to reducing >> >cruelty simply because I met a few people who insulted me. >> > >> >No offense, just food for thought. >> > >> >Steve >> >> Etter is right. Nothing is going to change that, no matter who you >> like or who you don't like. Matt finally allowed himself to consider >> reality, and now you're trying to talk him out of it. Will Matt revert >> back to the land of make believe, or will he hang with reality? If he >> hangs he may consider a lifestyle which contributes to decent lives >> for farm animals--which veg*nism certainly does not--and he may >> begin to consume animal products which contribute to fewer deaths >> than some vegetable products, which vegans can not. > >Where are the numebrs showing a meat died causes fewer animal deaths than a >plant base one? Do you also believe that pigs and cows tiptoe through the >meadow, Stick with cattle. They might kill a few insects, but they don't do the damage that growing crops produces. >that chickens never peck up a few insects? I imagine the majority of chickens never get the chance to eat any insects. But growing grain to feed them and the pigs causes deaths in crop fields, the same as growing grain for humans. >Veganism is about animal exploitation, That explains why you don't mind contributing to the deaths of wildlife in order to take their food and their homes. >not numbers of animals dead, nor is >veganism Luditism. So Etter is wrong on both those counts, and he has never >provided a single scrap of convincing evidence to support his claim that a >plant based diet causes more animal deaths. > >It is you and Etter who live in a land of make believe. · From the life and death of a thousand pound grass raised steer and whatever he happens to kill during his life, people get over 500 pounds of human consumable meat...that's well over 500 servings of meat. From a grass raised dairy cow people get thousands of dairy servings. Due to the influence of farm machinery, and *icides, and in the case of rice the flooding and draining of fields, one meal of soy or rice based product is likely to involve more animal deaths than hundreds of meals derived from grass raised cattle. Grass raised animal products contribute to less wildlife deaths, better wildlife habitat, and better lives for livestock than soy or rice products. · |
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"Beach Runner" > wrote in message . .. > > > rick etter wrote: > >> "Beach Runner" > wrote in message >> . .. >> >>> >>>rick etter wrote: >>> >>>>"Beach Runner" > wrote in message . com... >>>> >>>> >>>>>That One Guy wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>Hi, >>>>>> I used to be vegan for like two weeks a few months ago, since then I >>>>>>have relized my mistake. I was getting yelled at for my political >>>>>>veiws by the vegans at veganforum.com I can't beleive the way the were >>>>>>acting! Anyways, they were all ganging up on me and stuff and now >>>>>>they have >>>>>>pushed me away from that way of thinking for ever. I should have just >>>>>>listened >>>>>>to you from the start, Rick Thanks! - Matt >>>>>>P.S. I will Never go veg again. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>It's really not a good idea to base a decision on meeting a small group >>>>>of people you don't like. Research the issue from a biological and >>>>>scientific point of view. Perhaps you should read the information on >>>>>the Union of Concerned Scientists. Rick Etterer obviously has a >>>>>strange agenda, coming to a vegan new group to attack them. >>>> >>>>==================== >>>>No, I do not attack them. Unlike you, I tell people the truth. There >>>>are no usenet vegans, period. There are hypocritical waanabes, but none >>>>that can really get of the courage to actually make changes than really >>>>mean anything. All they have is a simple rule for their simple minds, >>>>'eat no meat.' Pretending to be vegan does not automayically meant >>>>that you kill no/fewer/less animals than other diets. It's a religion, >>>>and like all religions it's based only on faith, not fact. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Obviously he has a >>>> >>>> >>>>>strange personality/hostile disorder. >>>> >>>>================== >>>>ROTFLMAO This from people that make themselves the fringe of society >>>>and then complain that nobody cares, and from those that take glee in >>>>the death of people, and wish others dead. >> >> ================ >> No comment eh? Guess you agree about the hatred displayed by vegans. >> Must be a dietary effect, eh killer? >> >> >> >>>> >>>> >>>>>There are many health benefits to a vegan diet. >>>> >>>>==================== >>>>Yet nowhere that has long-lived, healthy population set is vegan. >>>>Okinawa, Azerbaijan. >>>> >>>> >>>> There are many health >>>> >>>> >>>>>problems associated with eating meat, from cardio disorders, cancers of >>>>>the digestive system, breast cancer, and such. >>>> >>>>===================== >>>>Which are not issue of 'veganism.' >>>> >>>> The only supplement that >>>> >>>> >>>>>may be indicated is vitamin B12. >>>> >>>>================== >>>>Which again makes you diet non-vegan. What a hoot! How many animals >>>>are you willing to kill to manufacture, process and ship these >>>>suppliments, hypocrite? The death of one animal would supply your needs >>>>for years and years. >>>> >>> >>>I researched it. My B12 shots are synthetic. >> >> ==================== >> LOL Exactly. Now, tell me how they synthesize your b12 without using >> any output from the petro-chemical industry. Like I said, just because >> you don't see the bodies doesn't mesn that that your diet/lifestyle is >> cruelty-free, or death-free. >> >> >> >>> >>>> >>>>>Try and make a decision based on a wider population and using your own >>>>>evaluation. >>>> >>>>================ >>>>Sure, I urge that also. Your problem is that you want him to base his >>>>decision on lys, delusions and faith, not fact. >>>> >>>> >>>>Now, go have that nice blood-drenched dinner, killer. >>>> >>> >>>Calling me a killer is just plain stupid. >> >> ================== >> No, it isn't. You are a killer. I am a killer. veryone is a killer. >> That you like to pretend otherwise is part of your religion of veganism. >> All faith and no facts. >> >> >> Eating lower on the food >> >>>chain does not make me a killer. Not supporting factory farms does not >>>make me a killer. >> >> ===================== >> ROTFLMAO You do support factory-famrs fools. Mono-culture crop >> farming is far more a 'factory' than many animal operations. Plus, even >> at that, you *do* support the 'factory-farmed' meat operations you so >> despise. How much of any crop do you eat? 20%? 50%? Face it, people >> eat very little of many crops. Take corn, you eat those nice little >> kernels. Why not the stalk? The leaves? The cob? The silk? That's >> all 'waste' as far as you are concerned, but much of it ends of as silage >> for animals. Looks to me like you do then support the hated meat >> industry hypocrite. >> >> >> >>>However, going into a group of vegans and attacking them is an indication >>>of a personality disorder. >> >> ===================== >> Again, I'm not attacking you. I'm displaying the ignorance and stupidity >> you spew. I can see how you wouldn't like having your religion stripped >> of its delusions and lys and consider that an attack. But again, it's >> all part of your education. Something you are sorely lacking in regards >> to the truth about your diet/lifestyle. >> >> Now, if you feel you can provide facts to defend your deusions, be my >> gueat. I've been asking for that proof for years. Be a hero, prove your >> lys... >> >> >> Now, go have that nice blood-drenched dinner, killer. >> >> >>>>>Beach Runner. >>>> >>>> >> > > I'm sorry, but you are sadly mistaken. ==================== No, I'm not. You are brainwashed beyond redemption, killer. To produce a pound of beef, it > takes seven times as much food to produce it as to eat the vegetables > themselves. =========================== No, it doesn't. What 'vegetables' are required for producing beef? Care to name a few? It doesn't take *any* human edible food to produce beef. The fallicy is all yours hypocrite. Have you ever heard of grass? No, not the kind that you obviously smoke too much of) It grows quite well, and quite easily, and without massive inputs from the petro-chemical industry like your crops. Cows turn that naturally occuring plant material, inedible to us, into perfectly good, perfectly healthy foods. So your basic fallacy is wrong. ================== No, you are. > > Just go to the Union of Concerned Scientists for a scientific analysis > rather that spew your hate. ====================== The hate is all from you, and them. Again, there is *no* requirment to feed any crop product to cows for producing beef. Why is that too hard for your pea-brain to understand? Your crops, on the other hand, are grown with massive amounts of death and suffering, and massive amounts of environmental damage. Afterall, mono-culture crop farming is the very definition of environmental destruction. Now, go have that nice blood-drenched dinner, killer. |
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Here you go, I'll se your Union of hate and Spew, and raise you a few sites... Here are some sites, with info on specific areas and pesticides. Animals die. http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/pesticideindex.htm http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html http://www.pmac.net/fishkill.htm http://www.pmac.net/summer-rivers.html http://www.pmac.net/bird_fish_CA.html http://oregonstate.edu/dept/ncs/news...00/nitrate.htm http://www.abcbirds.org/pesticides/P...carbofuran.htm http://www.nwf.org/internationalwildlife/hawk.html http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn36/pn36p3.htm http://www.wwfcanada.org/satellite/p...eFactSheet.pdf http://www.ncwildlife.org/pg07_Wildl...on/pg7f2b6.htm http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html http://www.wildlifedamagecontrol.com.../leastharm.htm http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/ http://ipm.ncsu.edu/wildlife/small_grains_wildlife.html http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/sugarcane.htm http://www.wildlifetrustofindia.org/...ele_poison.htm http://species.fws.gov/bio_rhin.html http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html http://www.hornedlizards.org/hornedlizards/help.html http://insects.tamu.edu/extension/bulletins/b-5093.html http://www.orst.edu/dept/ncs/newsarc...00/nitrate.htm http://www.orst.edu/instruct/fw251/n...riculture.html http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Pn35/pn35p6.htm http://www.greenenergyohio.org/defau...iew&pageID=135 http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html http://www.epa.gov/airmarkets/capandtrade/power.pdf http://www.nirs.org/licensedtokill/L...xecsummary.pdf http://www.towerkill.com/index.html http://migratorybirds.fws.gov/issues/towers/towers.htm http://www.abcbirds.org/policy/towerkill.htm http://www.mhhe.com/biosci/pae/es_ma...ticle_22.mhtml http://www.netwalk.com/~vireo/devastatingtoll.html http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...7697992.htm?1c http://www.energy.ca.gov/pier/energy...00-01-019.html http://www.repp.org/repp_pubs/articl.../04impacts.htm http://www.wvrivers.org/anker-upshur.htm http://www.fisheries.org/html/Public...nts/ps_2.shtml http://www.powerscorecard.org/issue_...cfm?issue_id=5 http://www.safesecurevital.org/artic...012012004.html Since your non-animal clothing isn't cruelty-free either, here's a couple to cover some problems with cotton. http://www.panna.org/panna/resources...Cotton.dv.html http://www.sustainablecotton.org/TOUR/ http://www.gbr.wwf.org.au/content/problem/cotton.htm To give you an idea of the sheer number of animals in a field, here's some sites about *just* mice and voles. Note that there can be 100s to 1000s in each acre, not the whole field. http://216.239.37.100/search?q=cache...state.edu/pubs /natres/06507.pdf+%22voles+per+acre%22+field&hl=en&ie=UTF8 http://extension.usu.edu/publica/natrpubs/voles.pdf http://extension.ag.uidaho.edu/district4/MG/voles.html http://www.forages.css.orst.edu/Topi...rate/Mice.html To cover your selfish pleasure of using usenet, and maintaining a web page on same, here's are a couple dealing with power and communications. http://www.clearwater.org/news/powerplants.html http://www.towerkill.com/index.html "Beach Runner" > wrote in message . .. > > > rick etter wrote: > >> "Beach Runner" > wrote in message >> . .. >> >>> >>>rick etter wrote: >>> >>>>"Beach Runner" > wrote in message . com... >>>> >>>> >>>>>That One Guy wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>Hi, >>>>>> I used to be vegan for like two weeks a few months ago, since then I >>>>>>have relized my mistake. I was getting yelled at for my political >>>>>>veiws by the vegans at veganforum.com I can't beleive the way the were >>>>>>acting! Anyways, they were all ganging up on me and stuff and now >>>>>>they have >>>>>>pushed me away from that way of thinking for ever. I should have just >>>>>>listened >>>>>>to you from the start, Rick Thanks! - Matt >>>>>>P.S. I will Never go veg again. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>It's really not a good idea to base a decision on meeting a small group >>>>>of people you don't like. Research the issue from a biological and >>>>>scientific point of view. Perhaps you should read the information on >>>>>the Union of Concerned Scientists. Rick Etterer obviously has a >>>>>strange agenda, coming to a vegan new group to attack them. >>>> >>>>==================== >>>>No, I do not attack them. Unlike you, I tell people the truth. There >>>>are no usenet vegans, period. There are hypocritical waanabes, but none >>>>that can really get of the courage to actually make changes than really >>>>mean anything. All they have is a simple rule for their simple minds, >>>>'eat no meat.' Pretending to be vegan does not automayically meant >>>>that you kill no/fewer/less animals than other diets. It's a religion, >>>>and like all religions it's based only on faith, not fact. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Obviously he has a >>>> >>>> >>>>>strange personality/hostile disorder. >>>> >>>>================== >>>>ROTFLMAO This from people that make themselves the fringe of society >>>>and then complain that nobody cares, and from those that take glee in >>>>the death of people, and wish others dead. >> >> ================ >> No comment eh? Guess you agree about the hatred displayed by vegans. >> Must be a dietary effect, eh killer? >> >> >> >>>> >>>> >>>>>There are many health benefits to a vegan diet. >>>> >>>>==================== >>>>Yet nowhere that has long-lived, healthy population set is vegan. >>>>Okinawa, Azerbaijan. >>>> >>>> >>>> There are many health >>>> >>>> >>>>>problems associated with eating meat, from cardio disorders, cancers of >>>>>the digestive system, breast cancer, and such. >>>> >>>>===================== >>>>Which are not issue of 'veganism.' >>>> >>>> The only supplement that >>>> >>>> >>>>>may be indicated is vitamin B12. >>>> >>>>================== >>>>Which again makes you diet non-vegan. What a hoot! How many animals >>>>are you willing to kill to manufacture, process and ship these >>>>suppliments, hypocrite? The death of one animal would supply your needs >>>>for years and years. >>>> >>> >>>I researched it. My B12 shots are synthetic. >> >> ==================== >> LOL Exactly. Now, tell me how they synthesize your b12 without using >> any output from the petro-chemical industry. Like I said, just because >> you don't see the bodies doesn't mesn that that your diet/lifestyle is >> cruelty-free, or death-free. >> >> >> >>> >>>> >>>>>Try and make a decision based on a wider population and using your own >>>>>evaluation. >>>> >>>>================ >>>>Sure, I urge that also. Your problem is that you want him to base his >>>>decision on lys, delusions and faith, not fact. >>>> >>>> >>>>Now, go have that nice blood-drenched dinner, killer. >>>> >>> >>>Calling me a killer is just plain stupid. >> >> ================== >> No, it isn't. You are a killer. I am a killer. veryone is a killer. >> That you like to pretend otherwise is part of your religion of veganism. >> All faith and no facts. >> >> >> Eating lower on the food >> >>>chain does not make me a killer. Not supporting factory farms does not >>>make me a killer. >> >> ===================== >> ROTFLMAO You do support factory-famrs fools. Mono-culture crop >> farming is far more a 'factory' than many animal operations. Plus, even >> at that, you *do* support the 'factory-farmed' meat operations you so >> despise. How much of any crop do you eat? 20%? 50%? Face it, people >> eat very little of many crops. Take corn, you eat those nice little >> kernels. Why not the stalk? The leaves? The cob? The silk? That's >> all 'waste' as far as you are concerned, but much of it ends of as silage >> for animals. Looks to me like you do then support the hated meat >> industry hypocrite. >> >> >> >>>However, going into a group of vegans and attacking them is an indication >>>of a personality disorder. >> >> ===================== >> Again, I'm not attacking you. I'm displaying the ignorance and stupidity >> you spew. I can see how you wouldn't like having your religion stripped >> of its delusions and lys and consider that an attack. But again, it's >> all part of your education. Something you are sorely lacking in regards >> to the truth about your diet/lifestyle. >> >> Now, if you feel you can provide facts to defend your deusions, be my >> gueat. I've been asking for that proof for years. Be a hero, prove your >> lys... >> >> >> Now, go have that nice blood-drenched dinner, killer. >> >> >>>>>Beach Runner. >>>> >>>> >> > > I'm sorry, but you are sadly mistaken. To produce a pound of beef, it > takes seven times as much food to produce it as to eat the vegetables > themselves. So your basic fallacy is wrong. > > Just go to the Union of Concerned Scientists for a scientific analysis > rather that spew your hate. |
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rick etter wrote: >>Just go to the Union of Concerned Scientists for a scientific analysis >>rather that spew your hate. > > ====================== > The hate is all from you, and them. Again, there is *no* requirment to > feed any crop product to cows for producing beef. Why is that too hard for > your pea-brain to understand? Your crops, on the other hand, are grown with > massive amounts of death and suffering, and massive amounts of environmental > damage. Afterall, mono-culture crop farming is the very definition of > environmental destruction. > > Now, go have that nice blood-drenched dinner, killer. > > Much crop land is used to produce corn, much of it genetically manipulated to feed cows. Of course, the corn production is highly subsidized by the government, which is why corn products are in so much of our food. Go to your la la land and find cows mostly grazing on open prairies. > |
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"Beach Runner" > wrote in message . .. > > > rick etter wrote: > >>>Just go to the Union of Concerned Scientists for a scientific analysis >>>rather that spew your hate. >> >> ====================== >> The hate is all from you, and them. Again, there is *no* requirment to >> feed any crop product to cows for producing beef. Why is that too hard >> for your pea-brain to understand? Your crops, on the other hand, are >> grown with massive amounts of death and suffering, and massive amounts of >> environmental damage. Afterall, mono-culture crop farming is the very >> definition of environmental destruction. >> >> Now, go have that nice blood-drenched dinner, killer. >> >> > Much crop land is used to produce corn, much of it genetically manipulated > to feed cows. Of course, the corn production is highly subsidized by the > government, which is why corn products are in so much of our food. ======================= So what? None of that negates the fact that there is no need to feed any corn to cows.... > > Go to your la la land and find cows mostly grazing on open prairies. ==================== LOL Hey fool, all beef cows are pasture fed for most of their lives. And then only about 3/4 of those go to feedlots, and then only for a few weeks of their lives. Too bad for you that your delusions have nothing to do with reality. But again, there is *NO* need to feed corn, or any crop foods to cows. try to refute it, killer. Again, what part of that is too much for your pea-brain to understand? Now, go have that nice blood-drenched breakfast, hypocrite. > > > >> |
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"Beach Runner" > wrote in message . .. > > > rick etter wrote: > >>>Just go to the Union of Concerned Scientists for a scientific analysis >>>rather that spew your hate. >> >> ====================== >> The hate is all from you, and them. Again, there is *no* requirment to >> feed any crop product to cows for producing beef. Why is that too hard >> for your pea-brain to understand? Your crops, on the other hand, are >> grown with massive amounts of death and suffering, and massive amounts of >> environmental damage. Afterall, mono-culture crop farming is the very >> definition of environmental destruction. >> >> Now, go have that nice blood-drenched dinner, killer. >> >> > Much crop land is used to produce corn, much of it genetically manipulated > to feed cows. Of course, the corn production is highly subsidized by the > government, which is why corn products are in so much of our food. ======================= So what? None of that negates the fact that there is no need to feed any corn to cows.... > > Go to your la la land and find cows mostly grazing on open prairies. ==================== LOL Hey fool, all beef cows are pasture fed for most of their lives. And then only about 3/4 of those go to feedlots, and then only for a few weeks of their lives. Too bad for you that your delusions have nothing to do with reality. But again, there is *NO* need to feed corn, or any crop foods to cows. try to refute it, killer. Again, what part of that is too much for your pea-brain to understand? Now, go have that nice blood-drenched breakfast, hypocrite. > > > >> |
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On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 03:08:56 GMT, "rick etter" > wrote:
>"Beach Runner" > wrote in message . .. [..] >> Go to your la la land and find cows mostly grazing on open prairies. >==================== >LOL Hey fool, all beef cows are pasture fed for most of their lives. Unlike you, Etter, vegans readily acknowledge the fact that animals die collaterally during the production of ther food. They don't lie about the production of their food. "The production of the beef I eat causes no CDs." "The production of my beef promotes no CDs. Period." Rick Etter 2003-11-15 But evidence proves that that is a long way from the truth. [The Animal Damage Control (ADC) program is administered by the U.S. Department of Agriculture under its Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service (APHIS). One of ADC's biggest and most controversial activities is killing coyotes and other predators, primarily to protect western livestock. Under pressure from ranchers, the U.S. government exterminates tens of thousands of predator and "nuisance" animals each year. In 1989, a partial list of animals killed by the U.S. Department of Agriculture's Animal Damage Control Program included 86,502 coyotes, 7,158 foxes, 236 black bears, 1,220 bobcats, and 80 wolves. In 1988, 4.6 million birds, 9,000 beavers, 76,000 coyotes, 5,000 raccoons, 300 black bears, and 200 mountain lions, among others, were killed. Some 400 pet dogs and 100 cats were also inadvertently killed. Extermination methods used include poisoning, shooting, gassing, and burning animals in their dens.] http://www.ti.org/adcreport.html Also, though a customer might switch to grass fed beef on the understanding that he would be reducing the collateral deaths associated with his food, evidence from U.S.D.A shows that "an animal could be fed 85% grain for 60 days and still qualify under these guidelines" as grass fed beef. That being so, grass fed beef accrues collateral death from the feed grown to feed them, just like any other steer in the feedlot. [Grass Fed Claims; This would appear to be the most commented upon topic in this docket. We will not belabor all the points of concern which are addressed but will focus on the areas of concern to our cooperative of growers. While Grain Fed addressed specifically what the method IS, Grass Fed seems to try to define what it IS NOT. This dichotomy is confusing. We feel that you need to define both as what they ARE since that is what is motivating the consumer. While the intent of this language would suggest that Grass Fed animals are not Grain Finished, especially in Feedlots, the language as written is not at all clear to that end. In fact by allowing 80% of consumed energy to be concentrated at the finishing stage, our data suggests that beef animals could be fed 50% forage /50% grain for 70 days at finishing. Likewise an animal could be fed 85% grain for 60 days and still qualify under these guidelines. This is absolutely not in line with consumer expectations as is borne out in the website comments.] http://www.ams.usda.gov/lsg/stand/comments/mc213.pdf Also, farmers lie to their customers who ask after their product. Farmer tell them it's grass fed but finishes his animals in feedlots on grains far away. [Some meat producers use "grass-fed" to describe animals that are raised in pens on industrial feed, including corn, and finished on rations of grass in feedlots far from home. A similar confusion still surrounds "free-range," which can refer to animals that roam where they please or to animals kept in barns and allowed to range in circumscribed yards. No one regulates the use of these terms, and given how many years it took to achieve a national definition of "organic," it may be a long time before anyone does.] http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2003/05/kummer.htm You can keep your grass fed beef, because you cannot show that it accrues less collateral deaths than the veg one might buy in a supermarket. Now, go and have another delusion, hypocrite. |
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On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 03:08:56 GMT, "rick etter" > wrote:
>"Beach Runner" > wrote in message . .. [..] >> Go to your la la land and find cows mostly grazing on open prairies. >==================== >LOL Hey fool, all beef cows are pasture fed for most of their lives. Unlike you, Etter, vegans readily acknowledge the fact that animals die collaterally during the production of ther food. They don't lie about the production of their food. "The production of the beef I eat causes no CDs." "The production of my beef promotes no CDs. Period." Rick Etter 2003-11-15 But evidence proves that that is a long way from the truth. [The Animal Damage Control (ADC) program is administered by the U.S. Department of Agriculture under its Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service (APHIS). One of ADC's biggest and most controversial activities is killing coyotes and other predators, primarily to protect western livestock. Under pressure from ranchers, the U.S. government exterminates tens of thousands of predator and "nuisance" animals each year. In 1989, a partial list of animals killed by the U.S. Department of Agriculture's Animal Damage Control Program included 86,502 coyotes, 7,158 foxes, 236 black bears, 1,220 bobcats, and 80 wolves. In 1988, 4.6 million birds, 9,000 beavers, 76,000 coyotes, 5,000 raccoons, 300 black bears, and 200 mountain lions, among others, were killed. Some 400 pet dogs and 100 cats were also inadvertently killed. Extermination methods used include poisoning, shooting, gassing, and burning animals in their dens.] http://www.ti.org/adcreport.html Also, though a customer might switch to grass fed beef on the understanding that he would be reducing the collateral deaths associated with his food, evidence from U.S.D.A shows that "an animal could be fed 85% grain for 60 days and still qualify under these guidelines" as grass fed beef. That being so, grass fed beef accrues collateral death from the feed grown to feed them, just like any other steer in the feedlot. [Grass Fed Claims; This would appear to be the most commented upon topic in this docket. We will not belabor all the points of concern which are addressed but will focus on the areas of concern to our cooperative of growers. While Grain Fed addressed specifically what the method IS, Grass Fed seems to try to define what it IS NOT. This dichotomy is confusing. We feel that you need to define both as what they ARE since that is what is motivating the consumer. While the intent of this language would suggest that Grass Fed animals are not Grain Finished, especially in Feedlots, the language as written is not at all clear to that end. In fact by allowing 80% of consumed energy to be concentrated at the finishing stage, our data suggests that beef animals could be fed 50% forage /50% grain for 70 days at finishing. Likewise an animal could be fed 85% grain for 60 days and still qualify under these guidelines. This is absolutely not in line with consumer expectations as is borne out in the website comments.] http://www.ams.usda.gov/lsg/stand/comments/mc213.pdf Also, farmers lie to their customers who ask after their product. Farmer tell them it's grass fed but finishes his animals in feedlots on grains far away. [Some meat producers use "grass-fed" to describe animals that are raised in pens on industrial feed, including corn, and finished on rations of grass in feedlots far from home. A similar confusion still surrounds "free-range," which can refer to animals that roam where they please or to animals kept in barns and allowed to range in circumscribed yards. No one regulates the use of these terms, and given how many years it took to achieve a national definition of "organic," it may be a long time before anyone does.] http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2003/05/kummer.htm You can keep your grass fed beef, because you cannot show that it accrues less collateral deaths than the veg one might buy in a supermarket. Now, go and have another delusion, hypocrite. |
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On 5 Nov 2004 05:15:19 -0800, (That One Guy) wrote:
>Hi, > I used to be vegan for like two weeks a few months ago, since then I >have relized my mistake. I was getting yelled at for my political >veiws by the vegans at veganforum.com I can't beleive the way the were >acting! Anyways, they were all ganging up on me and stuff and now >they have pushed me away from that way of thinking for ever. You shouldn't allow yourself to be bullied so easily. Get yourself some moral fibre and stand up for what you believe. And besides, if you were trying to adopt a vegan lifestyle, why were your fellow vegans on that group yelling at you? It doesn't make sense that they should yell at you, as you claim, if in fact you were a vegan at the time. > I should have just listened to you from the start, Rick Thanks! Yes, you should have, and then you might've seen what a liar he is and how easily you got taken in by him. While he does his best to attack vegans for the collateral deaths associated with every morsel of food they eat, he denies the fact that the production of his accrues them. Take a look at his response to the message below from "ipse dixit". [start ipse dixit to Rick Etter] > Then tell me how many collateral deaths are associated > with the grass fed beef you eat. After that tell me if you > accept that the *general* production, storage, and > distribution of grass fed beef accumulates any collateral > deaths. ============================ Why? The production of my beef promotes no CDs. Period. [end] Rick Etter http://tinyurl.com/58l8m > - Matt >P.S. I will Never go veg again. If you have no moral fibre and are easily bullied into doing things by the likes of Etter, then I believe you and doubt you have what it takes. |
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