Sourdough (rec.food.sourdough) Discussing the hobby or craft of baking with sourdough. We are not just a recipe group, Our charter is to discuss the care, feeding, and breeding of yeasts and lactobacilli that make up sourdough cultures.

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Old 09-01-2005, 03:53 PM
HUTCHNDI
 
Posts: n/a
Default Starter not sour

Hello, new to this. I originally had a starter made from commericial yeast
that I used for making a few loaves of bread, worked ok, but wanted to try
making a natural one. Made a new starter from rye flour and water, in a few
days it got bubbling, but no smell. I have been removing half and feeding
twice a day, 3/4 cup water and 1 cup king arthur unbleached all purpose
flour, and it seams active, but still no sour smell. Almost a week now. My
old commercial yeast starter at least had a sour smell to it. (i used that
all to get rid of it). Did I catch an unsour yeast or what?




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Old 09-01-2005, 04:30 PM
Samartha
 
Posts: n/a
Default

At 08:53 AM 1/9/2005, you wrote:
Hello, new to this. I originally had a starter made from commericial yeast
that I used for making a few loaves of bread, worked ok, but wanted to try
making a natural one. Made a new starter from rye flour and water, in a few
days it got bubbling, but no smell. I have been removing half and feeding
twice a day, 3/4 cup water and 1 cup king arthur unbleached all purpose
flour, and it seams active, but still no sour smell. Almost a week now. My
old commercial yeast starter at least had a sour smell to it. (i used that
all to get rid of it). Did I catch an unsour yeast or what?


how about sour taste - if you dare to taste it?



_______________________________________________
Rec.food.sourdough mailing list

http://www.mountainbitwarrior.com/ma...food.sourdough


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Old 09-01-2005, 04:30 PM
Samartha
 
Posts: n/a
Default

At 08:53 AM 1/9/2005, you wrote:
Hello, new to this. I originally had a starter made from commericial yeast
that I used for making a few loaves of bread, worked ok, but wanted to try
making a natural one. Made a new starter from rye flour and water, in a few
days it got bubbling, but no smell. I have been removing half and feeding
twice a day, 3/4 cup water and 1 cup king arthur unbleached all purpose
flour, and it seams active, but still no sour smell. Almost a week now. My
old commercial yeast starter at least had a sour smell to it. (i used that
all to get rid of it). Did I catch an unsour yeast or what?


how about sour taste - if you dare to taste it?



_______________________________________________
Rec.food.sourdough mailing list

http://www.mountainbitwarrior.com/ma...food.sourdough


===
remove "-nospam" when replying, and it's in my email address

  #4 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 09-01-2005, 04:30 PM
Kenneth
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 10:53:12 -0500, "HUTCHNDI"
wrote:

Hello, new to this. I originally had a starter made from commericial yeast
that I used for making a few loaves of bread, worked ok, but wanted to try
making a natural one. Made a new starter from rye flour and water, in a few
days it got bubbling, but no smell. I have been removing half and feeding
twice a day, 3/4 cup water and 1 cup king arthur unbleached all purpose
flour, and it seams active, but still no sour smell. Almost a week now. My
old commercial yeast starter at least had a sour smell to it. (i used that
all to get rid of it). Did I catch an unsour yeast or what?


Howdy,

I would suggest that you not be concerned with the taste or
smell of the starter. You are not going to be eating it.

Use it to make bread, and see if that results in the taste
you want.

HTH,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."
  #5 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 09-01-2005, 04:30 PM
Kenneth
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 10:53:12 -0500, "HUTCHNDI"
wrote:

Hello, new to this. I originally had a starter made from commericial yeast
that I used for making a few loaves of bread, worked ok, but wanted to try
making a natural one. Made a new starter from rye flour and water, in a few
days it got bubbling, but no smell. I have been removing half and feeding
twice a day, 3/4 cup water and 1 cup king arthur unbleached all purpose
flour, and it seams active, but still no sour smell. Almost a week now. My
old commercial yeast starter at least had a sour smell to it. (i used that
all to get rid of it). Did I catch an unsour yeast or what?


Howdy,

I would suggest that you not be concerned with the taste or
smell of the starter. You are not going to be eating it.

Use it to make bread, and see if that results in the taste
you want.

HTH,

--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."


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Old 09-01-2005, 04:50 PM
Dick Adams
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"HUTCHNDI" =20
in message news:[email protected] asked

Did I catch an unsour yeast or what?


Quite likely caught the wrong one. After that, you'd need to
worry about catching the right lactobacterium. So then you'd
need to construct some sort of a thermoregulated enclosure
for you stuff to grown in, and maybe more than one of those
if you intend to make complicated breads. Then some baskets=20
for the dough to "proof" in. You'd need to learn some German to=20
order those, and something about the tax structure in the E.=20
Union and how to deal with domestic ("Homeland") customs.
You also need to modify whatever inadequate oven you may
have by adding ceramic or masonry slabs and figuring out some
way to introduce adequate humidity ("steam") at the moment
it is required.

And that's just to start. You need some French to understand
the banneton and the couche and the coupe and the lame, and
some Italian and Polish, too, if you expect to cover all the bases
when it comes to starters. And that's not all, but bandwidth is
limited.

So that is why it is sometimes said that it may be worthwhile
to consider getting one's bread at the store.

--=20
Dick Adams
firstname dot lastname at bigfoot dot com
___________________
Sourdough FAQ guide at=20
http://www.nyx.net/~dgreenw/sourdoughfaqs.html


  #7 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 09-01-2005, 04:50 PM
Dick Adams
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"HUTCHNDI" =20
in message news:[email protected] asked

Did I catch an unsour yeast or what?


Quite likely caught the wrong one. After that, you'd need to
worry about catching the right lactobacterium. So then you'd
need to construct some sort of a thermoregulated enclosure
for you stuff to grown in, and maybe more than one of those
if you intend to make complicated breads. Then some baskets=20
for the dough to "proof" in. You'd need to learn some German to=20
order those, and something about the tax structure in the E.=20
Union and how to deal with domestic ("Homeland") customs.
You also need to modify whatever inadequate oven you may
have by adding ceramic or masonry slabs and figuring out some
way to introduce adequate humidity ("steam") at the moment
it is required.

And that's just to start. You need some French to understand
the banneton and the couche and the coupe and the lame, and
some Italian and Polish, too, if you expect to cover all the bases
when it comes to starters. And that's not all, but bandwidth is
limited.

So that is why it is sometimes said that it may be worthwhile
to consider getting one's bread at the store.

--=20
Dick Adams
firstname dot lastname at bigfoot dot com
___________________
Sourdough FAQ guide at=20
http://www.nyx.net/~dgreenw/sourdoughfaqs.html


  #8 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 09-01-2005, 05:42 PM
HUTCHNDI
 
Posts: n/a
Default

ok, i tasted the starter, still doesnt really taste like much, but after
some reading,( i have jack o'shaunessy's sourdough book here) i have moved
my starter from the kitchen to the living room nearer to my woodstove, the
kitchen is kind of cool at this time big old house, below 70 anyways. you
think that might be a factor?

"Samartha" wrote in message
news:[email protected] ww.mountainbitwarrior.com...
At 08:53 AM 1/9/2005, you wrote:
Hello, new to this. I originally had a starter made from commericial

yeast
that I used for making a few loaves of bread, worked ok, but wanted to

try
making a natural one. Made a new starter from rye flour and water, in a

few
days it got bubbling, but no smell. I have been removing half and

feeding
twice a day, 3/4 cup water and 1 cup king arthur unbleached all purpose
flour, and it seams active, but still no sour smell. Almost a week now.

My
old commercial yeast starter at least had a sour smell to it. (i used

that
all to get rid of it). Did I catch an unsour yeast or what?


how about sour taste - if you dare to taste it?



_______________________________________________
Rec.food.sourdough mailing list

http://www.mountainbitwarrior.com/ma...food.sourdough


===
remove "-nospam" when replying, and it's in my email address



  #9 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 09-01-2005, 05:59 PM
Will
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On 1/9/05 10:30 AM, "Kenneth" wrote:

On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 10:53:12 -0500, "HUTCHNDI"
wrote:

Hello, new to this. I originally had a starter made from commercial yeast
that I used for making a few loaves of bread, worked ok, but wanted to try
making a natural one. Made a new starter from rye flour and water, in a few
days it got bubbling, but no smell. I have been removing half and feeding
twice a day, 3/4 cup water and 1 cup king Arthur unbleached all purpose
flour, and it seams active, but still no sour smell. Almost a week now. My
old commercial yeast starter at least had a sour smell to it. (i used that
all to get rid of it). Did I catch an unsour yeast or what?


Howdy,

I would suggest that you not be concerned with the taste or
smell of the starter. You are not going to be eating it.

Use it to make bread, and see if that results in the taste
you want.

HTH,


Kenneth gives good advice about tasting your bread to see whether it is what
you want, because in the end, that is what counts.

But being concerned about the smell or taste of the starter is smart too. In
this instance, your starter is telling you it is too large and fed too much,
and fed too often, to develop the scent you think appropriate. You are
adding 3/4 cup water and 1 cup flour TWICE a day. Since this is half of your
total volume, your overall starter must be about a quart. That's quite a
lot. You could go into business with that much starter. And it is the most
refreshed starter I know of at twice a day (on a persistent basis). Really
fresh starter, which is what yours is, doesn't smell very sour, if it smells
sour at all.

Samartha's web site has a nifty calculator (google for it) that will help
you get a good handle on things like the ratio of starter to finished dough
weight. You will see that what you need to produce 2 loaves, or about 1800
grams, of bread is about 200 grams of starter. You could use 600 grams too.
It is a preference thing that will develop over time as you experiment. But
the main thing now is to:

1) congratulate yourself on a successful start. Make bread and taste it. I'm
betting it will be excellent, by the way.

2) reduce your starter to a volume that is realistic (to consumption) and
adopt a feeding schedule that is easier on both time and wallet. Like twice
a week, maintaining about 1/2 cup, refrigerated. It will smell sourer at
that volume considering the longer interval (but will smell fresh when fed).

By-the-by... Dick Adams is right on the money. Get your language tapes and
visit the bank. You will need a lot of equipment now, possibly a new
kitchen, one with a garde manger at the least.

Good luck,

Will



  #10 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 09-01-2005, 05:59 PM
Will
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On 1/9/05 10:30 AM, "Kenneth" wrote:

On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 10:53:12 -0500, "HUTCHNDI"
wrote:

Hello, new to this. I originally had a starter made from commercial yeast
that I used for making a few loaves of bread, worked ok, but wanted to try
making a natural one. Made a new starter from rye flour and water, in a few
days it got bubbling, but no smell. I have been removing half and feeding
twice a day, 3/4 cup water and 1 cup king Arthur unbleached all purpose
flour, and it seams active, but still no sour smell. Almost a week now. My
old commercial yeast starter at least had a sour smell to it. (i used that
all to get rid of it). Did I catch an unsour yeast or what?


Howdy,

I would suggest that you not be concerned with the taste or
smell of the starter. You are not going to be eating it.

Use it to make bread, and see if that results in the taste
you want.

HTH,


Kenneth gives good advice about tasting your bread to see whether it is what
you want, because in the end, that is what counts.

But being concerned about the smell or taste of the starter is smart too. In
this instance, your starter is telling you it is too large and fed too much,
and fed too often, to develop the scent you think appropriate. You are
adding 3/4 cup water and 1 cup flour TWICE a day. Since this is half of your
total volume, your overall starter must be about a quart. That's quite a
lot. You could go into business with that much starter. And it is the most
refreshed starter I know of at twice a day (on a persistent basis). Really
fresh starter, which is what yours is, doesn't smell very sour, if it smells
sour at all.

Samartha's web site has a nifty calculator (google for it) that will help
you get a good handle on things like the ratio of starter to finished dough
weight. You will see that what you need to produce 2 loaves, or about 1800
grams, of bread is about 200 grams of starter. You could use 600 grams too.
It is a preference thing that will develop over time as you experiment. But
the main thing now is to:

1) congratulate yourself on a successful start. Make bread and taste it. I'm
betting it will be excellent, by the way.

2) reduce your starter to a volume that is realistic (to consumption) and
adopt a feeding schedule that is easier on both time and wallet. Like twice
a week, maintaining about 1/2 cup, refrigerated. It will smell sourer at
that volume considering the longer interval (but will smell fresh when fed).

By-the-by... Dick Adams is right on the money. Get your language tapes and
visit the bank. You will need a lot of equipment now, possibly a new
kitchen, one with a garde manger at the least.

Good luck,

Will





  #11 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 09-01-2005, 06:46 PM
Dick Adams
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Will" wrote in message =
news:[email protected] mail.otherwhen.com...
said this about =
news
By-the-by... Dick Adams is right on the money. Get your language=20
tapes and visit the bank. You will need a lot of equipment now,=20
possibly a new kitchen, one with a garde manger at the least.


Well, not totally exactly on the money. There is the option of=20
getting a known starter, and following the simple instructions that=20
come with it. That, in the present hypersophisticated milieu,=20
however, must seem to be an entirely countercultural suggestion.

For instance:
http://tinyurl.com/6vm9g Fast, cheap
www.carlsfriends.org Very reliable, free

--
DickA
=20

  #12 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 09-01-2005, 06:46 PM
Dick Adams
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Will" wrote in message =
news:[email protected] mail.otherwhen.com...
said this about =
news
By-the-by... Dick Adams is right on the money. Get your language=20
tapes and visit the bank. You will need a lot of equipment now,=20
possibly a new kitchen, one with a garde manger at the least.


Well, not totally exactly on the money. There is the option of=20
getting a known starter, and following the simple instructions that=20
come with it. That, in the present hypersophisticated milieu,=20
however, must seem to be an entirely countercultural suggestion.

For instance:
http://tinyurl.com/6vm9g Fast, cheap
www.carlsfriends.org Very reliable, free

--
DickA
=20

  #13 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 09-01-2005, 10:51 PM
James A. Donald
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Will
But being concerned about the smell or taste of the starter
is smart too. In this instance, your starter is telling you
it is too large and fed too much, and fed too often, to
develop the scent you think appropriate. You are adding 3/4
cup water and 1 cup flour TWICE a day. Since this is half of
your total volume, your overall starter must be about a
quart. That's quite a lot. You could go into business with
that much starter. And it is the most refreshed starter I
know of at twice a day (on a persistent basis). Really fresh
starter, which is what yours is, doesn't smell very sour, if
it smells sour at all.


Maintaining a pint of starter is ridiculous, but diluting twice
a day seems pretty reasonable to me. If I kept my starter
continuously warm, I would have to dilute it several times a
day, It goes sour very quickly, and if not swiftly diluted,
develops a bad smell.

I dilute it by a factor of six or more every day, and keep it
in the fridge overnight, or else I would need to dilute it
again in the morning.

  #14 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 09-01-2005, 10:51 PM
James A. Donald
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Will
But being concerned about the smell or taste of the starter
is smart too. In this instance, your starter is telling you
it is too large and fed too much, and fed too often, to
develop the scent you think appropriate. You are adding 3/4
cup water and 1 cup flour TWICE a day. Since this is half of
your total volume, your overall starter must be about a
quart. That's quite a lot. You could go into business with
that much starter. And it is the most refreshed starter I
know of at twice a day (on a persistent basis). Really fresh
starter, which is what yours is, doesn't smell very sour, if
it smells sour at all.


Maintaining a pint of starter is ridiculous, but diluting twice
a day seems pretty reasonable to me. If I kept my starter
continuously warm, I would have to dilute it several times a
day, It goes sour very quickly, and if not swiftly diluted,
develops a bad smell.

I dilute it by a factor of six or more every day, and keep it
in the fridge overnight, or else I would need to dilute it
again in the morning.

  #15 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 09-01-2005, 10:59 PM
HUTCHNDI
 
Posts: n/a
Default

wow, glad i joined this newsgroup, you people are great..... yes, i already
am waiting for my little package from Carls friends, and i am looking
forward to using this starter once i get it right, i will settle for biga
bread tomorrow. while i have your attention, let me ask about my oven if you
dont mind. i have a (new withint the last 6 months) jennair oven with bead
proofing, standard and quick whatever that means, convection and standard
electric oven, and i was wondering if any of you know much about this type
stove, if any of the options should be used to optimize my bread baking, and
if stem creation can in any way be detrimental to an electric oven.
"Dick Adams" wrote in message
...

"Will" wrote in message
news:[email protected] mail.otherwhen.com...
said this about
news
By-the-by... Dick Adams is right on the money. Get your language
tapes and visit the bank. You will need a lot of equipment now,
possibly a new kitchen, one with a garde manger at the least.


Well, not totally exactly on the money. There is the option of
getting a known starter, and following the simple instructions that
come with it. That, in the present hypersophisticated milieu,
however, must seem to be an entirely countercultural suggestion.

For instance:
http://tinyurl.com/6vm9g Fast, cheap
www.carlsfriends.org Very reliable, free

--
DickA





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