Jenn Ridley extrapolated from data available...

> "Charles Gifford" > wrote:
>>"Arri London" > wrote in message
>>> I haven't met anyone here who resents being called 'Anglo' yet. It's
>>> understood to mean 'white' nowadays, so what's to resent if one is
>>> white?
>>
>>Hi! Let me introduce myself. I'm Charlie and I certainly would resent
>>being called Anglo. If it is understood by some people to mean white,
>>that is a sad commentary on their education.
>
> You just don't get it, do you?
>
> He's talking about a specific *regional* use of a word, and you're
> getting all bent out of shape by it.
>
> In the area where Anglo is used in this fashion, it's an acceptable
> use of the word.
>
> It doesn't matter if it's acceptable to you, since you don't live
> there.

.....as compared to being called gringo, Anglo is certainly the preferred
form. Back in the "old days" (and still) in Mexico, ethnic/skin color/etc.
prejudices led to the widespread use of such terms as gachupine, criollo,
mestizo, and indio, all descriptive of racial admixture or lack of it.

TMO

Charles Gifford wrote:
>
> "Arri London" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >
> > Charles Gifford wrote:
> > >
> > > "Arri London" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Frogleg wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 07:28:37 -0600, Arri London >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >Here in NM, anyone who isn't Hispanic, Asian, Black or Native
> American
> > > > > >is normally referred to as 'Anglo'. It isn't a reference to a
> > > particular
> > > > > >nationality. It means she was white, which she was.
> > > > >
> > > > > In 'Red Sky at Morning,' Richard Bradford's novel based on a
> somewhat
> > > > > fictionalized 1940s Santa Fe, a character says "We only recognize 3
> > > > > kinds of people in Sagrado: Anglos, Indians, and Natives."..."But
> what
> > > > > about the Negro?" "I already explained that to you. He's an Anglo.
> > > > > That is, he's an Anglo unless you're differentiating between him and
> > > > > an Indian. Then he's 'white.'"
> > > >
> > > > LOL that wouldn't work any more. The Black community would tend to
> > > > resent being called Anglo.
> > >
> > > But it isn't right when white people who aren't Anglo resent being
> called
> > > Anglo? ;-)
> > >
> > > Charlie
> >
> > I haven't met anyone here who resents being called 'Anglo' yet. It's
> > understood to mean 'white' nowadays, so what's to resent if one is
> > white?
>
> Hi! Let me introduce myself. I'm Charlie and I certainly would resent being
> called Anglo. If it is understood by some people to mean white, that is a
> sad commentary on their education.
>
> Charlie

But you don't live here (NM) and if you aren't white you wouldn't be
called Anglo around here anyway

Olivers wrote:
>
> Jenn Ridley extrapolated from data available...
>
> > "Charles Gifford" > wrote:
> >>"Arri London" > wrote in message
> >>> I haven't met anyone here who resents being called 'Anglo' yet. It's
> >>> understood to mean 'white' nowadays, so what's to resent if one is
> >>> white?
> >>
> >>Hi! Let me introduce myself. I'm Charlie and I certainly would resent
> >>being called Anglo. If it is understood by some people to mean white,
> >>that is a sad commentary on their education.
> >
> > You just don't get it, do you?
> >
> > He's talking about a specific *regional* use of a word, and you're
> > getting all bent out of shape by it.
> >
> > In the area where Anglo is used in this fashion, it's an acceptable
> > use of the word.
> >
> > It doesn't matter if it's acceptable to you, since you don't live
> > there.
>
> ....as compared to being called gringo, Anglo is certainly the preferred
> form. Back in the "old days" (and still) in Mexico, ethnic/skin color/etc.
> prejudices led to the widespread use of such terms as gachupine, criollo,
> mestizo, and indio, all descriptive of racial admixture or lack of it.
>
> TMO

There's still some of that round here. And I imagine if I understood
more Vietnamese, I'd hear another version still.

"Jenn Ridley" > wrote in message
news
> "Charles Gifford" > wrote:
> >"Arri London" > wrote in message
> >> I haven't met anyone here who resents being called 'Anglo' yet. It's
> >> understood to mean 'white' nowadays, so what's to resent if one is
> >> white?
> >
> >Hi! Let me introduce myself. I'm Charlie and I certainly would resent
being
> >called Anglo. If it is understood by some people to mean white, that is a
> >sad commentary on their education.
>
> You just don't get it, do you?

Perhaps.

> He's talking about a specific *regional* use of a word, and you're
> getting all bent out of shape by it.

She has mentioned *regional* use. But not in this instance. BTW, my shape is
not one that I would desire, but it is more-or-less unbent.

> In the area where Anglo is used in this fashion, it's an acceptable
> use of the word.

Shame on them! ;-0

> It doesn't matter if it's acceptable to you, since you don't live
> there.

I might visit Arri. In fact I would like to! I would hope that after the
time-span that we have read each other's posts, she would have a better
opinion of my character than you suppose.

Anyway, are visitors not supposed to be offended by such a blatant racist
steriotype just because they are visitors?

> jenn

Pace, Jenn!

Charlie

"Arri London" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Olivers wrote:
> >
> > Jenn Ridley extrapolated from data available...
> >
> > > "Charles Gifford" > wrote:
> > >>"Arri London" > wrote in message
> > >>> I haven't met anyone here who resents being called 'Anglo' yet. It's
> > >>> understood to mean 'white' nowadays, so what's to resent if one is
> > >>> white?
> > >>
> > >>Hi! Let me introduce myself. I'm Charlie and I certainly would resent
> > >>being called Anglo. If it is understood by some people to mean white,
> > >>that is a sad commentary on their education.
> > >
> > > You just don't get it, do you?
> > >
> > > He's talking about a specific *regional* use of a word, and you're
> > > getting all bent out of shape by it.
> > >
> > > In the area where Anglo is used in this fashion, it's an acceptable
> > > use of the word.
> > >
> > > It doesn't matter if it's acceptable to you, since you don't live
> > > there.
> >
> > ....as compared to being called gringo, Anglo is certainly the preferred
> > form. Back in the "old days" (and still) in Mexico, ethnic/skin
color/etc.
> > prejudices led to the widespread use of such terms as gachupine,
criollo,
> > mestizo, and indio, all descriptive of racial admixture or lack of it.
> >
> > TMO
>
> There's still some of that round here. And I imagine if I understood
> more Vietnamese, I'd hear another version still.

Hee, hee! I've heard lots of "Mick" and Paddy" and all the jokes. Oh, and
don't call me a Yankee! My next door neighbors are Vietnamese, uh-oh!
Another version!

Charlie

"Arri London" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Charles Gifford wrote:
> >
> > "Arri London" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > >
> > > Charles Gifford wrote:
> > > >
> > > > "Arri London" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Frogleg wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 07:28:37 -0600, Arri London
>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >Here in NM, anyone who isn't Hispanic, Asian, Black or Native
> > American
> > > > > > >is normally referred to as 'Anglo'. It isn't a reference to a
> > > > particular
> > > > > > >nationality. It means she was white, which she was.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In 'Red Sky at Morning,' Richard Bradford's novel based on a
> > somewhat
> > > > > > fictionalized 1940s Santa Fe, a character says "We only
recognize 3
> > > > > > kinds of people in Sagrado: Anglos, Indians, and
Natives."..."But
> > what
> > > > > > about the Negro?" "I already explained that to you. He's an
Anglo.
> > > > > > That is, he's an Anglo unless you're differentiating between him
and
> > > > > > an Indian. Then he's 'white.'"
> > > > >
> > > > > LOL that wouldn't work any more. The Black community would tend to
> > > > > resent being called Anglo.
> > > >
> > > > But it isn't right when white people who aren't Anglo resent being
> > called
> > > > Anglo? ;-)
> > > >
> > > > Charlie
> > >
> > > I haven't met anyone here who resents being called 'Anglo' yet. It's
> > > understood to mean 'white' nowadays, so what's to resent if one is
> > > white?
> >
> > Hi! Let me introduce myself. I'm Charlie and I certainly would resent
being
> > called Anglo. If it is understood by some people to mean white, that is
a
> > sad commentary on their education.
> >
> > Charlie
>
> But you don't live here (NM) and if you aren't white you wouldn't be
> called Anglo around here anyway

My dear friend. I may visit! I am very white but I am Norman-Irish. No
Anglo - no Saxon. However, I would not be *really* offended. I might offer
instruction though. ;-)

Charlie

Charles Gifford extrapolated from data available...


>
> Hee, hee! I've heard lots of "Mick" and Paddy" and all the jokes. Oh,
> and don't call me a Yankee! My next door neighbors are Vietnamese,
> uh-oh! Another version!
>

The use of "Anglo" by Mexicans and Mexican Americans to refer to any one
not Hispanic, AfricanAmerican or Oriental is pretty general around her.
EVen "Anglos" do it.

As for the gradients of Mexican ethnicity...

Gachupine (or puro) - born in Mexico of pure Spanish blood, claimed by
many, far more than really are.

Criollo - Mexican with a minimal admixture of Indian blood (although seen
in Vera Cruz, Tampico to describe individuals with African ancestry but
Hispanic surnames).

Mestizo - Mostly native American

Indio - all NA

In some areas, Mexicans remain very sensitive to issues of skin color and
ancestry.

In the US, there's a lot of internal discrimination by Mexican Americans
based upon how long a family has lived in the States.

TMO

In parts of Mexico, the gradients

Charles Gifford wrote:
>
> "Arri London" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >
> > Charles Gifford wrote:
> > >
> > > "Arri London" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Charles Gifford wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > "Arri London" > wrote in message
> > > > > ...
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Frogleg wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 07:28:37 -0600, Arri London
> >
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Here in NM, anyone who isn't Hispanic, Asian, Black or Native
> > > American
> > > > > > > >is normally referred to as 'Anglo'. It isn't a reference to a
> > > > > particular
> > > > > > > >nationality. It means she was white, which she was.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > In 'Red Sky at Morning,' Richard Bradford's novel based on a
> > > somewhat
> > > > > > > fictionalized 1940s Santa Fe, a character says "We only
> recognize 3
> > > > > > > kinds of people in Sagrado: Anglos, Indians, and
> Natives."..."But
> > > what
> > > > > > > about the Negro?" "I already explained that to you. He's an
> Anglo.
> > > > > > > That is, he's an Anglo unless you're differentiating between him
> and
> > > > > > > an Indian. Then he's 'white.'"
> > > > > >
> > > > > > LOL that wouldn't work any more. The Black community would tend to
> > > > > > resent being called Anglo.
> > > > >
> > > > > But it isn't right when white people who aren't Anglo resent being
> > > called
> > > > > Anglo? ;-)
> > > > >
> > > > > Charlie
> > > >
> > > > I haven't met anyone here who resents being called 'Anglo' yet. It's
> > > > understood to mean 'white' nowadays, so what's to resent if one is
> > > > white?
> > >
> > > Hi! Let me introduce myself. I'm Charlie and I certainly would resent
> being
> > > called Anglo. If it is understood by some people to mean white, that is
> a
> > > sad commentary on their education.
> > >
> > > Charlie
> >
> > But you don't live here (NM) and if you aren't white you wouldn't be
> > called Anglo around here anyway
>
> My dear friend. I may visit! I am very white but I am Norman-Irish. No
> Anglo - no Saxon. However, I would not be *really* offended. I might offer
> instruction though. ;-)
>
> Charlie


That wouldn't necessarily be a good idea (the instruction I mean); this
is a heavily-armed state and a lot of people seem to have very short
fuses.

But unless you can trace your family tree very accurately all the way
back, you may have Angle and Saxon in there. The Normans didn't waste a
lot of time before taking 'local' spouses and statistically there aren't
a whole lot of 'pure' Irish in Ireland.

"Olivers" > wrote in message
...
>
> As for the gradients of Mexican ethnicity...

Thank you for the information! It is very interesting.

Charlie

"Arri London" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> That wouldn't necessarily be a good idea (the instruction I mean); this
> is a heavily-armed state and a lot of people seem to have very short
> fuses.

Thanks for the warning! I shall certainly exude a low profile.

> But unless you can trace your family tree very accurately all the way
> back, you may have Angle and Saxon in there. The Normans didn't waste a
> lot of time before taking 'local' spouses and statistically there aren't
> a whole lot of 'pure' Irish in Ireland.

Both sides of my family have been researched in amazing detail back to 1069
on one side and a little earlier (I don't remember exactly; somewhere around
the 1040's on the other. This was done by long lines of female ancestors,
with nothing better to do with their time I suppose. There is one Scot, one
German, one Sioux. You are right though - there almost certainly was an
Anglo or Saxon somewhere - probably via that Scot. Personally, I have dual
Irish and U.S. citizenship. I identify as either Irish or Californian. ;-)

Charlie

Charles Gifford wrote:
>
> "Arri London" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >
> > That wouldn't necessarily be a good idea (the instruction I mean); this
> > is a heavily-armed state and a lot of people seem to have very short
> > fuses.
>
> Thanks for the warning! I shall certainly exude a low profile.

I do the same. While I resent the loss of freedom that moving here has
meant, the chile is very good

>
> > But unless you can trace your family tree very accurately all the way
> > back, you may have Angle and Saxon in there. The Normans didn't waste a
> > lot of time before taking 'local' spouses and statistically there aren't
> > a whole lot of 'pure' Irish in Ireland.
>
> Both sides of my family have been researched in amazing detail back to 1069
> on one side and a little earlier (I don't remember exactly; somewhere around
> the 1040's on the other. This was done by long lines of female ancestors,
> with nothing better to do with their time I suppose. There is one Scot, one
> German, one Sioux. You are right though - there almost certainly was an
> Anglo or Saxon somewhere - probably via that Scot. Personally, I have dual
> Irish and U.S. citizenship. I identify as either Irish or Californian. ;-)
>
> Charlie

And the German as well. Then of course the Scot could have Norse
ancestry in there too, as could most of the Irish side.

"Arri London" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> And the German as well. Then of course the Scot could have Norse
> ancestry in there too, as could most of the Irish side.

Well yes. Rape and pillage and all that. However the Normans were Norse by
definition. You and I are probably some degree of cousins! ;-)

Charlie

For being patient with me, here is a really wonderful recipe for birria that
was posted to rec.food.cooking 5 years ago. I really enjoy it.

BIRRIA


Posted by: Richard Thead, rfc, 16MAR98
Recipe by: A lady who ran a burrito truck in Tucson, AZ; translated by
Richard
Gently rewritten by Charlie

2 lbs. chuck roast
2 bay leaves
1 onion, peeled and quartered
1/2 head garlic, peeled
black peppercorns
water as needed
3 tsp. chili powder or powdered red chile
1 tsp. ground cumin
1 tsp. oregano
salt and pepper to taste


Place first five ingredients in a Dutch oven and add water just to cover.
Bring to a boil, cover, and place in a 325F oven for 2 hours, or until very
tender. Remove the meat and strain broth, discarding the solids. Remove the
excess fat from the broth and return it to the pot. Add the chili powder (or
powdered chile), cumin, oregano, salt and pepper. Remove any fat on the beef
and discard. Cut meat into 1-inch or so chunks. It should pull apart easily.
Return meat to seasoned broth and barely simmer, covered, for an hour. When
serving, remove meat with tongs.


RICHARD'S NOTES: This is one of those dishes that has a traditional version
and then the one that is made by everyday cooks. If you look at the standard
recipe in most books, it calls for mutton and is served more like a soup.

Here in Tucson, only a few restaurants offer it. The best is at the
"Birrieria Guadalajara", a converted root beer stand on the south side.
Whenever I eat there, I'm always amazed that it manages to pass health
inspection.

This recipe came from a lady who ran a burrito truck near where I worked.
When she wrote it out for me it was entirely in Spanish. It is Jaliscan in
origin and approachable by any cook. The ingredients are found in just about
any grocery store.

The result is a very tender meat that is good wrapped in soft corn tortillas
or in burritos. Toppings can include shredded cabbage, grated carrot, onion,
tomato and cilantro. To spice it up, the last three toppings can be replaced
by a good pico de gallo. My favorite salsa for it is a fiery concoction made
with chile de arbol.

Charles Gifford wrote:
>
> "Arri London" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >
> > And the German as well. Then of course the Scot could have Norse
> > ancestry in there too, as could most of the Irish side.
>
> Well yes. Rape and pillage and all that. However the Normans were Norse by
> definition. You and I are probably some degree of cousins! ;-)
>
> Charlie

No doubt. Since more than one of my Dutch ancestors was a ship's
captain, we know what that means. Given the rest of my family history,
we could be cousins more than once LOL!
>
> For being patient with me, here is a really wonderful recipe for birria that
> was posted to rec.food.cooking 5 years ago. I really enjoy it.

TY! Sounds good! Since we don't eat beef, will try it with pork. Would
need to go down to a carniceria to get goat otherwise, and mutton is
even harder to get
>
> BIRRIA
>
> Posted by: Richard Thead, rfc, 16MAR98
> Recipe by: A lady who ran a burrito truck in Tucson, AZ; translated by
> Richard
> Gently rewritten by Charlie
>
> 2 lbs. chuck roast
> 2 bay leaves
> 1 onion, peeled and quartered
> 1/2 head garlic, peeled
> black peppercorns
> water as needed
> 3 tsp. chili powder or powdered red chile
> 1 tsp. ground cumin
> 1 tsp. oregano
> salt and pepper to taste
>
> Place first five ingredients in a Dutch oven and add water just to cover.
> Bring to a boil, cover, and place in a 325F oven for 2 hours, or until very
> tender. Remove the meat and strain broth, discarding the solids. Remove the
> excess fat from the broth and return it to the pot. Add the chili powder (or
> powdered chile), cumin, oregano, salt and pepper. Remove any fat on the beef
> and discard. Cut meat into 1-inch or so chunks. It should pull apart easily.
> Return meat to seasoned broth and barely simmer, covered, for an hour. When
> serving, remove meat with tongs.
>
> RICHARD'S NOTES: This is one of those dishes that has a traditional version
> and then the one that is made by everyday cooks. If you look at the standard
> recipe in most books, it calls for mutton and is served more like a soup.
>
> Here in Tucson, only a few restaurants offer it. The best is at the
> "Birrieria Guadalajara", a converted root beer stand on the south side.
> Whenever I eat there, I'm always amazed that it manages to pass health
> inspection.
>
> This recipe came from a lady who ran a burrito truck near where I worked.
> When she wrote it out for me it was entirely in Spanish. It is Jaliscan in
> origin and approachable by any cook. The ingredients are found in just about
> any grocery store.
>
> The result is a very tender meat that is good wrapped in soft corn tortillas
> or in burritos. Toppings can include shredded cabbage, grated carrot, onion,
> tomato and cilantro. To spice it up, the last three toppings can be replaced
> by a good pico de gallo. My favorite salsa for it is a fiery concoction made
> with chile de arbol.

"Charles Gifford" > wrote in message ink.net>...
> "Arri London" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >
> > And the German as well. Then of course the Scot could have Norse
> > ancestry in there too, as could most of the Irish side.
>
> Well yes. Rape and pillage and all that. However the Normans were Norse by
> definition. You and I are probably some degree of cousins! ;-)
>
> Charlie

Actually, they were farmers. Why *some* want to cling to the idea of
Viking rape and pillage (thinking that adds to their masculinity
somehow?) is beyond me. Wherever they went, they traded, settled, and
farmed, and that is why you may have their ancestry.

Orkney
Ukraine
Russia
Ireland
Scotland
Yorkshire
Norway
Denmark
Sweden
Finland
Schleiswig Holstein
L'Anse aux Meadows








>
> For being patient with me, here is a really wonderful recipe for birria that
> was posted to rec.food.cooking 5 years ago. I really enjoy it.
>
> BIRRIA
>
>
> Posted by: Richard Thead, rfc, 16MAR98
> Recipe by: A lady who ran a burrito truck in Tucson, AZ; translated by
> Richard
> Gently rewritten by Charlie
>
> 2 lbs. chuck roast
> 2 bay leaves
> 1 onion, peeled and quartered
> 1/2 head garlic, peeled
> black peppercorns
> water as needed
> 3 tsp. chili powder or powdered red chile
> 1 tsp. ground cumin
> 1 tsp. oregano
> salt and pepper to taste
>
>
> Place first five ingredients in a Dutch oven and add water just to cover.
> Bring to a boil, cover, and place in a 325F oven for 2 hours, or until very
> tender. Remove the meat and strain broth, discarding the solids. Remove the
> excess fat from the broth and return it to the pot. Add the chili powder (or
> powdered chile), cumin, oregano, salt and pepper. Remove any fat on the beef
> and discard. Cut meat into 1-inch or so chunks. It should pull apart easily.
> Return meat to seasoned broth and barely simmer, covered, for an hour. When
> serving, remove meat with tongs.
>
>
> RICHARD'S NOTES: This is one of those dishes that has a traditional version
> and then the one that is made by everyday cooks. If you look at the standard
> recipe in most books, it calls for mutton and is served more like a soup.
>
> Here in Tucson, only a few restaurants offer it. The best is at the
> "Birrieria Guadalajara", a converted root beer stand on the south side.
> Whenever I eat there, I'm always amazed that it manages to pass health
> inspection.
>
> This recipe came from a lady who ran a burrito truck near where I worked.
> When she wrote it out for me it was entirely in Spanish. It is Jaliscan in
> origin and approachable by any cook. The ingredients are found in just about
> any grocery store.
>
> The result is a very tender meat that is good wrapped in soft corn tortillas
> or in burritos. Toppings can include shredded cabbage, grated carrot, onion,
> tomato and cilantro. To spice it up, the last three toppings can be replaced
> by a good pico de gallo. My favorite salsa for it is a fiery concoction made
> with chile de arbol.

"fresh~horses" > wrote

> > Well yes. Rape and pillage and all that. However the
Normans were Norse by

> Actually, they were farmers.

Farmers who had a *severe* public relations problem.

"Thorsteinn the Viking in Mikligard"
http://kanyak.com/mikligard.html
--
Bob
Kanyak's Doghouse
http://www.kanyak.com

Olivers wrote:
>
> Gachupine (or puro) - born in Mexico of pure Spanish blood, claimed by
> many, far more than really are.
>
> Criollo - Mexican with a minimal admixture of Indian blood (although seen
> in Vera Cruz, Tampico to describe individuals with African ancestry but
> Hispanic surnames).
>
> Mestizo - Mostly native American
>
> Indio - all NA
>

I have never heard the term, "Gachupine." Historically, "Criollo" meant
the person was born in the New World but had pure European (Spanish)
blood, "Mestizo" meant mixed, and "Indio" meant native indian. People
seem to have expanded the usages today. In white New Orleans, Creoles
are the old French/Spanish families. In black New Orleans, those folks
whose roots are from the 19th century quadroon balls call themselves
"Creoles." They are handsome people, easily distinquished as "creoles"
from their looks. Ex-mayor Dutch Morial and his son, ex-mayor Mark
Morial, are from that background. They are very proud of their heritage
and usually marry other Creoles.

The term, "anglo," was used by the Texas Welfare Dept almost 40 years
ago when I worked there to refer to white people. You were "Anglo
Saxon" whether your ancestors were Picts, Normans, Huns, or Jutes. It
didn't have any bad connotation . . . it just meant "white."

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