Chili con Queso
 

Just found two recipes for "Chili con Queso dated 1956: one uses Velveta; the
other recommends "1 lb. Old English cheese".

See "Fiesta Fa Mexican, Spanish and Southwestern Recipes ... Commemorating
Albuquerque's 250th Anniversary." Albuquerque: Home & School Association,
[1956].

Andy Smith

Chili con Queso
 

ASmith1946 muttered....

> Just found two recipes for "Chili con Queso dated 1956: one uses
> Velveta; the other recommends "1 lb. Old English cheese".
>
> See "Fiesta Fa Mexican, Spanish and Southwestern Recipes ...
> Commemorating Albuquerque's 250th Anniversary." Albuquerque: Home &
> School Association, [1956].
>
> Andy Smith
>

I had forgotten "Old English", Kraft's sort of 2nd level up in flavor from
Velveeta (with the Blue-box "American" in between).

Thinking back to the mid50s, Chili con Queso made at home for parties and
the restaurant versions found in the ubiquitous "TexMex" joints of the
period were often quite different, with the reaturants favoring an approach
which began with a bechamel/white roux with cheese (the restaurant supply
sort, "Cheddar", Longhorn, Rat, etc.) and added flavorings, while the
homemade varieties seemed to consistently begin with a simpler "easy food"
format of simply melting processed cheese (and maybe adding a little milk
or evaporated milk), although Rotel Tomatoes & Green Chilis, available
throughout the Southwest, providied ample liquid for the hoped for
consistency. Pace's Picante Sauce must have emerged from the shadows in
San Antonio in the mid50s, still a local/regional product on the way up the
ladder of fame like Tabasco Sauce.

At least for Texans, the big TexMex places of the sort like El Mat and El
Toro in Austin, served a barely cheesy sauce (with little tomatos or
chilis)over crisp tortillas on most of their combo plates and specials, but
IIRC served a thicker richer "Chili con Queso" when ordered separately.

TMO

Chili con Queso
 

ASmith1946 wrote:
>
> Just found two recipes for "Chili con Queso dated 1956: one uses Velveta; the
> other recommends "1 lb. Old English cheese".
>
> See "Fiesta Fa Mexican, Spanish and Southwestern Recipes ... Commemorating
> Albuquerque's 250th Anniversary." Albuquerque: Home & School Association,
> [1956].
>
> Andy Smith

Got an older recipe from: 'The Genuine New Mexico Tasty Recipes' by
Cleofas M Jaramillo.
This is a 1981 reprint of the original pamphlet, which was published in
1942.

'Green Chile with Cheese

Stew in milk to moisten, as many peeled, chopped green chiles as you
wish to serve. Add yellow cheese cut up in small pieces and salt to
taste. Simmer a few minutes to melt cheese; serve.'

A later recipe from: 'Historic Cookery by Fabiola C Gilbert, published
in 1970

'Chile Verde con Quest

Dried green chile is best, but canned chile may also be used--one cup
canned green chile or its equivalent of the dry product after it has
been soaked.

3 T(bs) fat
3 T chopped onion
1 clove chopped garlic
1 c canned green chile
1 c thinly sliced cheese
1 t(sp) salt

Fry onion and garlic in fat. Add coarsely chopped green chile and sliced
cheese. Add salt. Cook over slow fire until cheese is melted.'

Maybe the Anglos use(d) Velveeta while the New Mexicans use(d) real
cheese?

Chili con Queso
 

Hi Arri and TMO:

Two minutes after I hit the send button on my original message, I ran across
two more early chili con quesso recipes:

Chili Con Queso
Three cans green chili or ten fresh chilies parched and peeled and chopped
fine. One large onion also chopped. One-half pint of thin cream or rich milk.
Three-fourths pound cheese cut in small pieces. Put butter the size of an egg
in the skillet, add chili and onion and salt to taste. Pour in milk. Simmer for
about one hour and just before serving stir in the grated cheese. /25/

Chili Con Queso
Have green chili mashed and cheese grated and one small onion cut up. Heat one
tablespoon crisco in frying pan, add one teaspoon flour, then chili, cheese and
onion and a little cream. Delicious served with lamb or any meat. /26/
Salsa de Barbacoa /26/

Source: St. Vincent's Guild, "How to Prepare and Serve€“ Mexican Food. Silver
City, New Mexico: St. Vincent's Guild, nd

Unfortunately, there is no date on the cookbooklet, but there is advertising
and the telephone numbers range from "6" to "011." Subsequent editions were
published in the 1940s. Anyone help on the date for this?

Andy Smith

T>
>Got an older recipe from: 'The Genuine New Mexico Tasty Recipes' by
>Cleofas M Jaramillo.
>This is a 1981 reprint of the original pamphlet, which was published in
>1942.
>
>'Green Chile with Cheese
>
>Stew in milk to moisten, as many peeled, chopped green chiles as you
>wish to serve. Add yellow cheese cut up in small pieces and salt to
>taste. Simmer a few minutes to melt cheese; serve.'
>
>A later recipe from: 'Historic Cookery by Fabiola C Gilbert, published
>in 1970
>
>'Chile Verde con Quest
>
>Dried green chile is best, but canned chile may also be used--one cup
>canned green chile or its equivalent of the dry product after it has
>been soaked.
>
>3 T(bs) fat
>3 T chopped onion
>1 clove chopped garlic
>1 c canned green chile
>1 c thinly sliced cheese
>1 t(sp) salt
>
>Fry onion and garlic in fat. Add coarsely chopped green chile and sliced
>cheese. Add salt. Cook over slow fire until cheese is melted.'
>
>Maybe the Anglos use(d) Velveeta while the New Mexicans use(d) real
>cheese?
>
>
>
>
>
>

Chili con Queso
 

My _Mexican Cookbook_, Erna Ferguson, U of NMexico Press, 1945 edition of
1934 original, does not contain Chili con Queso or anything closely
related.

On the other hand, it does feature a dish called "Burritos", fresh corn
tortillas rolled thick, stuffed with chicharonnes (described as are today's
versions) and then baked...a far cry from the burritos of today. Evidence
of its New Mexico origin, the book is filled with recipes calling for
squash, green corn and green chiles.

TMO

Chili con Queso/Burrito
 

According to the OED, the first printed use of the word burrito (in any
language) was in Ferguson's "Mexican Cookbook" (1934). There should be earlier
references, but have not found any. Perhaps someone else has?

Andy Smith

>My _Mexican Cookbook_, Erna Ferguson, U of NMexico Press, 1945 edition of
>1934 original, does not contain Chili con Queso or anything closely
>related.
>
>On the other hand, it does feature a dish called "Burritos", fresh corn
>tortillas rolled thick, stuffed with chicharonnes (described as are today's
>versions) and then baked...a far cry from the burritos of today. Evidence
>of its New Mexico origin, the book is filled with recipes calling for
>squash, green corn and green chiles.
>
>TMO
>
>
>
>
>
>

Chili con Queso
 

Olivers wrote:
>
> My _Mexican Cookbook_, Erna Ferguson, U of NMexico Press, 1945 edition of
> 1934 original, does not contain Chili con Queso or anything closely
> related.
>
> On the other hand, it does feature a dish called "Burritos", fresh corn
> tortillas rolled thick, stuffed with chicharonnes (described as are today's
> versions) and then baked...a far cry from the burritos of today. Evidence
> of its New Mexico origin, the book is filled with recipes calling for
> squash, green corn and green chiles.
>
> TMO

Erna Fergusson certainly was a well-known figure in Albuquerque.
However, she was Anglo and it wouldn't surprise me if her style of
cooking differed somewhat from Hispanic 'Mexican' cooking of the time.
(One of the ABQ public library branches is named after her.)

Chili con Queso
 

Olivers wrote:
>
> My _Mexican Cookbook_, Erna Ferguson, U of NMexico Press, 1945 edition of
> 1934 original, does not contain Chili con Queso or anything closely
> related.
>
> On the other hand, it does feature a dish called "Burritos", fresh corn
> tortillas rolled thick, stuffed with chicharonnes (described as are today's
> versions) and then baked...a far cry from the burritos of today. Evidence
> of its New Mexico origin, the book is filled with recipes calling for
> squash, green corn and green chiles.
>
> TMO


Ms Jaramillo's book was originally published in 1939 and the recipes are
primarily from Northern New Mexico. Since the cooking differs between
ABQ and Northern New Mexico today, one can imagine it differed even more
in the past.
She doesn't mention burritos at all, but does give a recipe for the
typical flat New Mexico enchilada, using chicharrones.

Chili con Queso
 

ASmith1946 wrote:
>
> Hi Arri and TMO:
>
> Two minutes after I hit the send button on my original message, I ran across
> two more early chili con quesso recipes:
>
> Chili Con Queso
> Three cans green chili or ten fresh chilies parched and peeled and chopped
> fine. One large onion also chopped. One-half pint of thin cream or rich milk.
> Three-fourths pound cheese cut in small pieces. Put butter the size of an egg
> in the skillet, add chili and onion and salt to taste. Pour in milk. Simmer for
> about one hour and just before serving stir in the grated cheese. /25/
>
> Chili Con Queso
> Have green chili mashed and cheese grated and one small onion cut up. Heat one
> tablespoon crisco in frying pan, add one teaspoon flour, then chili, cheese and
> onion and a little cream. Delicious served with lamb or any meat. /26/
> Salsa de Barbacoa /26/
>
> Source: St. Vincent's Guild, "How to Prepare and Serve€“ Mexican Food. Silver
> City, New Mexico: St. Vincent's Guild, nd
>
> Unfortunately, there is no date on the cookbooklet, but there is advertising
> and the telephone numbers range from "6" to "011." Subsequent editions were
> published in the 1940s. Anyone help on the date for this?
>
> Andy Smith

Hello Andy and Olivers

Given that Silver City still isn't a very large place (about 10,000) and
is mostly rural, the telephone numbers might not be much help LOL!

Crisco was introduced by P&G in 1911. Wouldn't imagine it reached New
Mexico that same year, but I suppose it could have. So your window is
between 1911 and the 1940s, not that that helps a great deal.

Don't know when chiles were first available canned in NM either, but
that would be another clue.

Again, I'm guessing the Crisco recipe is Anglo. Even today Hispanic
cooks in NM would tend to prefer lard.


>
> T>
> >Got an older recipe from: 'The Genuine New Mexico Tasty Recipes' by
> >Cleofas M Jaramillo.
> >This is a 1981 reprint of the original pamphlet, which was published in
> >1942.
> >
> >'Green Chile with Cheese
> >
> >Stew in milk to moisten, as many peeled, chopped green chiles as you
> >wish to serve. Add yellow cheese cut up in small pieces and salt to
> >taste. Simmer a few minutes to melt cheese; serve.'
> >
> >A later recipe from: 'Historic Cookery by Fabiola C Gilbert, published
> >in 1970
> >
> >'Chile Verde con Quest
> >
> >Dried green chile is best, but canned chile may also be used--one cup
> >canned green chile or its equivalent of the dry product after it has
> >been soaked.
> >
> >3 T(bs) fat
> >3 T chopped onion
> >1 clove chopped garlic
> >1 c canned green chile
> >1 c thinly sliced cheese
> >1 t(sp) salt
> >
> >Fry onion and garlic in fat. Add coarsely chopped green chile and sliced
> >cheese. Add salt. Cook over slow fire until cheese is melted.'
> >
> >Maybe the Anglos use(d) Velveeta while the New Mexicans use(d) real
> >cheese?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

Chili con Queso
 

Arri:

What are the differences between cooking in Northern New Mexico and
Albuquerque?

Andy Smith

>
>Ms Jaramillo's book was originally published in 1939 and the recipes are
>primarily from Northern New Mexico. Since the cooking differs between
>ABQ and Northern New Mexico today, one can imagine it differed even more
>in the past.
>She doesn't mention burritos at all, but does give a recipe for the
>typical flat New Mexico enchilada, using chicharrones.
>
>
>
>
>
>

Chili con Queso
 

"Arri London" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Erna Fergusson certainly was a well-known figure in Albuquerque.
> However, she was Anglo

Anglo? With a name like Fergusson? Seems unlikely to me.

Charlie

> and it wouldn't surprise me if her style of
> cooking differed somewhat from Hispanic 'Mexican' cooking of the time.
> (One of the ABQ public library branches is named after her.)

Chili con Queso
 

Charles Gifford wrote:
>
> "Arri London" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >
> > Erna Fergusson certainly was a well-known figure in Albuquerque.
> > However, she was Anglo
>
> Anglo? With a name like Fergusson? Seems unlikely to me.
>
> Charlie

Here in NM, anyone who isn't Hispanic, Asian, Black or Native American
is normally referred to as 'Anglo'. It isn't a reference to a particular
nationality. It means she was white, which she was.

>
> > and it wouldn't surprise me if her style of
> > cooking differed somewhat from Hispanic 'Mexican' cooking of the time.
> > (One of the ABQ public library branches is named after her.)

Chili con Queso
 

ASmith1946 wrote:
>
> Arri:
>
> What are the differences between cooking in Northern New Mexico and
> Albuquerque?
>
> Andy Smith

So far, in terms of the cookbooks I have and what I've eaten,
Albuquerque generic Mexican has incorporated a lot of Anglo cooking and
cooking from Mexico.
The Northern New Mexican I've eaten (and the recipes I've seen) tend to
stick to the local ingredients and incorporate more Native American
(Pueblo) influence along with old style Spanish cooking. For example,
there seems to be more lamb and goat used up north.
That's a sweeping generalisation of course. One can find cafes in ABQ
that serve northern style and there's probably a Taco Bell in Taos LOL.

Would need to do more research (yum) to provide more specifics.


>
> >
> >Ms Jaramillo's book was originally published in 1939 and the recipes are
> >primarily from Northern New Mexico. Since the cooking differs between
> >ABQ and Northern New Mexico today, one can imagine it differed even more
> >in the past.
> >She doesn't mention burritos at all, but does give a recipe for the
> >typical flat New Mexico enchilada, using chicharrones.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

Chili con Queso
 

Arri London muttered....

>
>
> Olivers wrote:
>>
>> My _Mexican Cookbook_, Erna Ferguson, U of NMexico Press, 1945
>> edition of
>> 1934 original, does not contain Chili con Queso or anything closely
>> related.
>>
>> On the other hand, it does feature a dish called "Burritos", fresh
>> corn tortillas rolled thick, stuffed with chicharonnes (described as
>> are today's versions) and then baked...a far cry from the burritos of
>> today. Evidence of its New Mexico origin, the book is filled with
>> recipes calling for squash, green corn and green chiles.
>>
>> TMO
>
> Erna Fergusson certainly was a well-known figure in Albuquerque.
> However, she was Anglo and it wouldn't surprise me if her style of
> cooking differed somewhat from Hispanic 'Mexican' cooking of the time.
> (One of the ABQ public library branches is named after her.)

Looking through the slim little red book (faded now, but with a couple of
fragments of yellow cover stuck to the binding courtesy of a water-soaking
of the bottom inch), there are some items of interest....

1) The inscription, to my mother from my father....
"These enchiladas sound like Ramona's Kitchen. How about some."

Where was "Ramona's Kitchen"? Looking at the recipe, "stacked" enchiladas
topped with fried egg and containing chopped ripe olives, leads me to
believe that it may have been in the San Diego area where we lived early in
WWII or in the ABQ area, not back home in Texas. In my earliest memories
of ABQ, passing through on 66/Central Avenue, we would detour to the Plaza
to eat at La Placita, still there, not near so good as memory, even the
sopapillas for which it may have been best known.

2) I forget that New Mexico has a North and a South (Las Cruces, Roswell,
the Middle Pecos and a strip across the state above IH10) but also a
"Central", ABQ and environs.

3) _Mexican Cookbook_ is far less Anglo than you might expect, pretty
solidly lard with a little olive oil. Lots of squash (but no blossoms).
Garbanzos, unknown in TexMexeria or Anglo cuisine, even a few mutton
recipes. I'd call it solidly "North Central". Lots of store-bought yellow
cheese, but homemade goat and cowsmilk cheeses. The omission of soft tacos
or much in the way of variety/organ meats in almost any form moves it up to
the Cetral Part of the state.

4) The foreword claims that the recipes are all in a category which were
used in New Mexico when it was part of Mexico. I'm guessing that there was
a purposeful attempt to avoid modernizations such as "Creesco".

5) I had always thought that the inclusion of ripe olives with enchiladas,
stacked or rolled, was a "California" thing, and am interested to see them
used in new Mexican cuisine. Original or cultural transposition?

6) The book would have been appealing certainly to tourists, but more
likely was aimed at the quickly multiplying Anglo "immigrant" residents of
the ABQ area, numbers of which must have swelled vastly during WWII. I
suspect that the 3rd edition/printing of 1945, was a bigger run than the
'34 and '40 editions.

For those interested in how ethnic/regional cuisines and US lifestyles
change, among the most vivid (if not always accurate) accounts are found in
the pages of church, women's clubs and "Junior League" cookbooks (with the
Junior League versions providing amazing insight as to the social and
eating habits of regionally and locally identifiable affluent middle
classes for a 20-30 year period prior to publication). Unfortunately, when
attempting to compare ethnic recipes with original "European" versions,
readers have to reconstruct bridges from modern to "homeland" based on the
arrival of penniless immigrants forced to adapt their mothers' recipes to
affordable and available substitute ingredients.

The "Kolaces" of West, Texas are likely a bit different than the ones in
the bakeries of what was Moravia, just as the local "smoked sausage" of the
Brazos and Colorado valleys represent local ingredients melded into
traditions ranging from Alsace to the edge of old Russia.

I'm sure there are mutually incompatible theories as to how "fried pies"
arrived in Nachitoches (Nac-o-tish) and how rice got into boudin....(or
along what minute of Longitude, andouille becomes "smoked sausage", and who
the Hell ever first contemplated deep frying blue crab and calling it
"barbecued").

TMO

Chili con Queso
 

Olivers wrote:
>
> Arri London muttered....
>
> >
> >
> > Olivers wrote:
> >>
> >> My _Mexican Cookbook_, Erna Ferguson, U of NMexico Press, 1945
> >> edition of
> >> 1934 original, does not contain Chili con Queso or anything closely
> >> related.
> >>
> >> On the other hand, it does feature a dish called "Burritos", fresh
> >> corn tortillas rolled thick, stuffed with chicharonnes (described as
> >> are today's versions) and then baked...a far cry from the burritos of
> >> today. Evidence of its New Mexico origin, the book is filled with
> >> recipes calling for squash, green corn and green chiles.
> >>
> >> TMO
> >
> > Erna Fergusson certainly was a well-known figure in Albuquerque.
> > However, she was Anglo and it wouldn't surprise me if her style of
> > cooking differed somewhat from Hispanic 'Mexican' cooking of the time.
> > (One of the ABQ public library branches is named after her.)
>
> Looking through the slim little red book (faded now, but with a couple of
> fragments of yellow cover stuck to the binding courtesy of a water-soaking
> of the bottom inch), there are some items of interest....
>
> 1) The inscription, to my mother from my father....
> "These enchiladas sound like Ramona's Kitchen. How about some."
>
> Where was "Ramona's Kitchen"? Looking at the recipe, "stacked" enchiladas
> topped with fried egg and containing chopped ripe olives, leads me to
> believe that it may have been in the San Diego area where we lived early in
> WWII or in the ABQ area, not back home in Texas. In my earliest memories
> of ABQ, passing through on 66/Central Avenue, we would detour to the Plaza
> to eat at La Placita, still there, not near so good as memory, even the
> sopapillas for which it may have been best known.

Haven't eaten there in ages. Is it still open? One of those restaurants
on the Plaza closed end of last year.
>
> 2) I forget that New Mexico has a North and a South (Las Cruces, Roswell,
> the Middle Pecos and a strip across the state above IH10) but also a
> "Central", ABQ and environs.

Yes. Populations and cuisine somewhat different in each region.
>
> 3) _Mexican Cookbook_ is far less Anglo than you might expect, pretty
> solidly lard with a little olive oil. Lots of squash (but no blossoms).
> Garbanzos, unknown in TexMexeria or Anglo cuisine, even a few mutton
> recipes. I'd call it solidly "North Central". Lots of store-bought yellow
> cheese, but homemade goat and cowsmilk cheeses. The omission of soft tacos
> or much in the way of variety/organ meats in almost any form moves it up to
> the Cetral Part of the state.

Ok haven't seen the book. Moves it up to or down to the Central Rio
Grande? Organ meats and soft tacos are certainly Northern things. Ms
Fergusson may have eliminated the organ meats because she didn't like
them.


>
> 4) The foreword claims that the recipes are all in a category which were
> used in New Mexico when it was part of Mexico. I'm guessing that there was
> a purposeful attempt to avoid modernizations such as "Creesco".

LOL! Mrs Jaramillo's book says the same thing, except for 'one or two
Old Mexico recipes'. She didn't identify those recipes.
>
> 5) I had always thought that the inclusion of ripe olives with enchiladas,
> stacked or rolled, was a "California" thing, and am interested to see them
> used in new Mexican cuisine. Original or cultural transposition?

Don't know. Many of the cafes I go to don't use black olives in their
cooking, so hard to say. They aren't really a festure of traditional New
Mexican cuisine that I can observe. Mrs Jaramillo's book doesn't mention
them, while Mrs Gilbert's book uses them only in 'Arroz con Pollo',
which is a very Spanish dish.
Taco Bell certainly uses them but then they aren't Mexican food anyway
LOL!

>
> 6) The book would have been appealing certainly to tourists, but more
> likely was aimed at the quickly multiplying Anglo "immigrant" residents of
> the ABQ area, numbers of which must have swelled vastly during WWII. I
> suspect that the 3rd edition/printing of 1945, was a bigger run than the
> '34 and '40 editions.

That would make sense.
>
> For those interested in how ethnic/regional cuisines and US lifestyles
> change, among the most vivid (if not always accurate) accounts are found in
> the pages of church, women's clubs and "Junior League" cookbooks (with the
> Junior League versions providing amazing insight as to the social and
> eating habits of regionally and locally identifiable affluent middle
> classes for a 20-30 year period prior to publication).

Yes, that's very true. The 'Mexican' section of the ABQ Junior League
cookbook takes up about 10 percent of the whole book. However those
recipes aren't bad, and the burritos are baked LOL!

Unfortunately, when
> attempting to compare ethnic recipes with original "European" versions,
> readers have to reconstruct bridges from modern to "homeland" based on the
> arrival of penniless immigrants forced to adapt their mothers' recipes to
> affordable and available substitute ingredients.

But that's not all that difficult is it? The original versions of those
recipes are readily available in the home countries for comparison.
Certainly I can compare American German recipes to the originals; we
have several German-language cookbooks with classic regional recipes and
we also get German magazines to see current cuisine. Same thing for
French and Dutch cooking in our house. Fortunately I also have a couple
of English language cookbooks from other countries which don't modify
the recipes in the translation. I did check with natives from those
countries. Of course without those materials I wouldn't have a clue
outside my own cultures.

>
> The "Kolaces" of West, Texas are likely a bit different than the ones in
> the bakeries of what was Moravia, just as the local "smoked sausage" of the
> Brazos and Colorado valleys represent local ingredients melded into
> traditions ranging from Alsace to the edge of old Russia.


>
> I'm sure there are mutually incompatible theories as to how "fried pies"
> arrived in Nachitoches (Nac-o-tish) and how rice got into boudin....(or
> along what minute of Longitude, andouille becomes "smoked sausage", and who
> the Hell ever first contemplated deep frying blue crab and calling it
> "barbecued").
>
> TMO

Ah now don't get started on barbeque/-cue. That is a cult and culture
all its own with various levels of snobbery.

Chili con Queso
 

> "These enchiladas sound like Ramona's Kitchen. How about some."
>
>Where was "Ramona's Kitchen"?

Well, perhaps it was Ramona from:
Pauline Wiley-Kleemann, ed. "Ramona's Spanish-Mexican Cookery; The First
Complete and Authentic Spanish-Mexican Cook Book in English" (Los Angeles: West
Coast Publishing Co., 1929). BTW, its claims for being the "First" and
"Complete" and "Authentic" are exaggerated.

Or perhaps it (and the above cookbook, I've often wondered) could be a
reference to "Ramona" the outdoor play re early relations among, Mexican,
Indian and Anglo societies in California circa 1850. I think it has run
continuously in Riverside, California, since 1923.

Andy Smith

Chili con Queso
 

Arri London muttered....


>
> But that's not all that difficult is it? The original versions of
> those recipes are readily available in the home countries for
> comparison. Certainly I can compare American German recipes to the
> originals; we have several German-language cookbooks with classic
> regional recipes and we also get German magazines to see current
> cuisine. Same thing for French and Dutch cooking in our house.
> Fortunately I also have a couple of English language cookbooks from
> other countries which don't modify the recipes in the translation. I
> did check with natives from those countries. Of course without those
> materials I wouldn't have a clue outside my own cultures.
>

In my case I was referring to immigrants who were illiterate or barely
literate and unlikely to have learned from or carried coookbooks. They had
presumably lived with diets limited by modern standards (still accurate
when describing many of the recent immigrants from Mexico living across the
US) and arrived attempting to survive on fare lacking in much variety due
to previous expereience, availability or price. Many dishes from "home"
seem to have been altered to fit new circumstances, and the recipes from
some of the ethnic enclaves (church and lodge cookbooks) around here are
quaint meldings of traditions.

.....Then there's the availability of cheap sugar which seems to have found
its way into every local "Czech" dish....

TMO

TMO

Chili con Queso
 

"Arri London" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Charles Gifford wrote:
> >
> > "Arri London" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > >
> > > Erna Fergusson certainly was a well-known figure in Albuquerque.
> > > However, she was Anglo
> >
> > Anglo? With a name like Fergusson? Seems unlikely to me.
> >
> > Charlie
>
> Here in NM, anyone who isn't Hispanic, Asian, Black or Native American
> is normally referred to as 'Anglo'. It isn't a reference to a particular
> nationality. It means she was white, which she was.
>

How odd. How vexatious.

Charlie

Chili con Queso
 

"Olivers" > wrote in message
...
>
> 1) The inscription, to my mother from my father....
> "These enchiladas sound like Ramona's Kitchen. How about some."
>
> Where was "Ramona's Kitchen"? Looking at the recipe, "stacked" enchiladas
> topped with fried egg and containing chopped ripe olives, leads me to
> believe that it may have been in the San Diego area

That would be an obvious choice as the name Ramona is very much associated
with San Diego since the publication of the book "Ramona" in the early 20th
century. My copy is packed in a box somewhere and I don't rember the
author's name nor the exact year she wrote it. There have been many places,
including a town, called Ramona's or Ramona in San Diego County. This is
especially true in San Diego's Old Town area.

The use of olives is also very Californian. The Spanish planted olives all
over California and the use of them in cooking became intrinsic to
California Rancho food. These would but the preserved Spanish type olives.
RIPE olive processing was developed independently by 2 people in
California at the turn of the 20th century. One in Northern CA (her name
escapes me at the moment) and by Captain Gifford in San Diego. With the
greatly expanded supply of olives provided by the ease of canning California
Ripe olives, their use increased in all California cooking including the
well established Spanish Rancho cuisine. As Mexican foods began to be an
influence in the middle 1900's, the olive survived in the new Cal-Mex
cuisine formed from the mixing of California Rancho and Mexican foods.

Charlie

Chili con Queso
 

"ASmith1946" > wrote in message
...
>
> Or perhaps it (and the above cookbook, I've often wondered) could be a
> reference to "Ramona" the outdoor play re early relations among, Mexican,
> Indian and Anglo societies in California circa 1850. I think it has run
> continuously in Riverside, California, since 1923.
>
> Andy Smith

The play is adapted from the book I've mentioned elsewhere. Her Name is on
the tip of my tongue, perhaps Jackson? The play is given annually in Hemet,
California which is indeed in Riverside County.

Charlie

Chili con Queso
 

>> 1) The inscription, to my mother from my father....
>> "These enchiladas sound like Ramona's Kitchen. How about some."
>>
>> Where was "Ramona's Kitchen"? Looking at the recipe, "stacked" enchiladas
>> topped with fried egg and containing chopped ripe olives, leads me to
>> believe that it may have been in the San Diego area
>
>That would be an obvious choice as the name Ramona is very much associated
>with San Diego since the publication of the book "Ramona" in the early 20th
>century. My copy is packed in a box somewhere and I don't rember the
>author's name nor the exact year she wrote it. There have been many places,
>including a town, called Ramona's or Ramona in San Diego County. This is
>especially true in San Diego's Old Town area.
>


Charlie:

Yep-- you're right-- It was Helen Hunt Jackson, "Ramona: a story" (Boston :
Roberts Bros., 1884). I may have to acquire a copy just to see if she had a
kitchen!

Evidently there was a silent movie of the same name that was released in 1911.

Andy Smith

Chili con Queso
 

> The play is adapted from the book I've mentioned elsewhere. Her Name is on
> the tip of my tongue, perhaps Jackson? The play is given annually in Hemet,
> California which is indeed in Riverside County.
>
> Charlie

Helen Hunt Jackson. A google search will lead you to a biography of
the lady.
The annual Ramona Pagent is at the natural ampitheatre at Hemet.
Quite amazing that there isn't amplification of sound -- the voices
just carry.

Joan

Chili con Queso
 

> Yep-- you're right-- It was Helen Hunt Jackson, "Ramona: a story" (Boston :
> Roberts Bros., 1884). I may have to acquire a copy just to see if she had a
> kitchen!
>
> Evidently there was a silent movie of the same name that was released in 1911.
>
> Andy Smith

There was a 1936 movie starring Loretta Young as Ramona and Don Ameche
as Allesandro.

I think the gorgeous song "Indian Love Call" was from this film.

Joan

Chili con Queso
 

Charles Gifford wrote:
>
> "Arri London" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >
> > Charles Gifford wrote:
> > >
> > > "Arri London" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Erna Fergusson certainly was a well-known figure in Albuquerque.
> > > > However, she was Anglo
> > >
> > > Anglo? With a name like Fergusson? Seems unlikely to me.
> > >
> > > Charlie
> >
> > Here in NM, anyone who isn't Hispanic, Asian, Black or Native American
> > is normally referred to as 'Anglo'. It isn't a reference to a particular
> > nationality. It means she was white, which she was.
> >
>
> How odd. How vexatious.
>
> Charlie

That's life at high altitude Charlie. Doesn't bother anyone that I've
noticed.

Chili con Queso
 

Olivers wrote:
>
> Arri London muttered....
>
>
> >
> > But that's not all that difficult is it? The original versions of
> > those recipes are readily available in the home countries for
> > comparison. Certainly I can compare American German recipes to the
> > originals; we have several German-language cookbooks with classic
> > regional recipes and we also get German magazines to see current
> > cuisine. Same thing for French and Dutch cooking in our house.
> > Fortunately I also have a couple of English language cookbooks from
> > other countries which don't modify the recipes in the translation. I
> > did check with natives from those countries. Of course without those
> > materials I wouldn't have a clue outside my own cultures.
> >
>
> In my case I was referring to immigrants who were illiterate or barely
> literate and unlikely to have learned from or carried coookbooks. They had
> presumably lived with diets limited by modern standards (still accurate
> when describing many of the recent immigrants from Mexico living across the
> US) and arrived attempting to survive on fare lacking in much variety due
> to previous expereience, availability or price.

In that case you are talking about only one group of immigrants.
Different groups had different experiences.
The common complaint I hear from European and Japanese immigrants is the
lack of variety they must endure until they start eating 'American' or
making the changes you suggest.


Many dishes from "home"
> seem to have been altered to fit new circumstances, and the recipes from
> some of the ethnic enclaves (church and lodge cookbooks) around here are
> quaint meldings of traditions.

Yes that's true in other countries as well. Immigrant cooking is
different from that practised at home. As you say, typically due to the
lack of equivalent ingredients.
>
> ....Then there's the availability of cheap sugar which seems to have found
> its way into every local "Czech" dish....
>
> TMO
>
> TMO

Ah but that's a feature of much American cooking to us foreigners. There
is a pervasive sweetness in things that weren't sweet at 'home'.

Chili con Queso
 

"Arri London" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Charles Gifford wrote:
> >
> > "Arri London" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > >
> > > Charles Gifford wrote:
> > > >
> > > > "Arri London" > wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Erna Fergusson certainly was a well-known figure in Albuquerque.
> > > > > However, she was Anglo
> > > >
> > > > Anglo? With a name like Fergusson? Seems unlikely to me.
> > > >
> > > > Charlie
> > >
> > > Here in NM, anyone who isn't Hispanic, Asian, Black or Native American
> > > is normally referred to as 'Anglo'. It isn't a reference to a
particular
> > > nationality. It means she was white, which she was.
> > >
> >
> > How odd. How vexatious.
> >
> > Charlie
>
> That's life at high altitude Charlie. Doesn't bother anyone that I've
> noticed.

Didn't notice me eh? ;-)

Charlie

Chili con Queso
 

Arri London muttered....


>
> Ah but that's a feature of much American cooking to us foreigners.
> There is a pervasive sweetness in things that weren't sweet at 'home'.
>

a collateral track...

My father's mother, orphaned as a child and raised on a hardscrabble West
Texas ranch near Buffalo Gap aspired to some gentility and the props and
affectations of same in her old age. After my grandfather's death, she
kept her house, and in the 7th and 8th grades I walked two blocks from
school three days a week to lunch with her.

For the first few weeks, lunch always includedd "store bought" light bread.
I had a heck of a time convincing her that I would be more'n happy with
biscuits and even happier with cornbread, especially the "hot water" sort,
"fried", at which she excelled. She had served light bread because she
truly believed in indicated a higher social status or level of
sophistication.

Back in the early 50s, produce was still seasonal, and many of the meals
would have been classed as vegetarian except for the standard additions of
"side meat" to the cooking process. In this climate, the hardier greens
are available well into the Winter, but dried bean season starts in October
and runs thru April or so. Except for canned tomatoes, I don't remember
ever having a store bought canned vegetable except for beets (always a
"salad"). I still buy "real" hominy, the dried sort, attempting to recrate
the miracles she could perform with a food most popular those who couldn't
afford cornmeal.

Having white sugar, brown sugar, molasses and sorghum syrp available and
affordable had given her a sweet toooth in later years, souvenir of a
sugar-deprived childhood, and sweeteners were in many of her recipes,
especially for yeast rolls, which put me off them for years.

TMO

Chili con Queso
 

"Charles Gifford" > wrote:

>
>"Arri London" > wrote in message

>> Charles Gifford wrote:
>> >
>> > "Arri London" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> > >
>> > > Charles Gifford wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > "Arri London" > wrote in message
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Erna Fergusson certainly was a well-known figure in Albuquerque.
>> > > > > However, she was Anglo
>> > > >
>> > > > Anglo? With a name like Fergusson? Seems unlikely to me.
>> > > >
>> > > > Charlie
>> > >
>> > > Here in NM, anyone who isn't Hispanic, Asian, Black or Native American
>> > > is normally referred to as 'Anglo'. It isn't a reference to a
>particular
>> > > nationality. It means she was white, which she was.
>> > >
>> >
>> > How odd. How vexatious.
>>
>> That's life at high altitude Charlie. Doesn't bother anyone that I've
>> noticed.
>
>Didn't notice me eh? ;-)

Do you live there? then it doesn't really matter.

FWIW, *I* knew what Anglo means in that context, and I don't even live
there.

jenn
--
Jenn Ridley

Chili con Queso
 

Jenn Ridley wrote:

<snip>

>>> That's life at high altitude Charlie. Doesn't bother anyone that
>>> I've noticed.
>>
>> Didn't notice me eh? ;-)
>
> Do you live there? then it doesn't really matter.
>
> FWIW, *I* knew what Anglo means in that context, and I don't even live
> there.
>
> jenn

Well, for what it's worth, I had some friends of various Carribean/Central
American backgrounds while I was in school in Miami who called all
non-black, non-Carribean/Central American, non-Asian people "Anglos." I
took to referring to them all as "Mexican" and they got the point and at
least stopped calling _me_ an Anglo. Of course, they'd still call my 2nd
generation Irish-American roomate an Anglo, which ****ed him off much more
than it had ever bothered me, and tended to prompt long speeches about the
Sassenach history of oppressing his people, etc...

Just my $0.02,

Ken "German/French/Scotch Irish-American" Coble

--
Ken Coble

"As a military man your lordship may hold out the sword of war, and
call it the "ultima ratio regum": the last reason of kings; we in
return can show you the sword of justice, and call it "the best scourge
of tyrants." - Thomas Paine, "The Crisis"

Chili con Queso
 

Charles Gifford wrote:
>
> "Arri London" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >
> > Charles Gifford wrote:
> > >
> > > "Arri London" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Charles Gifford wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > "Arri London" > wrote in message
> > > > > ...
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Erna Fergusson certainly was a well-known figure in Albuquerque.
> > > > > > However, she was Anglo
> > > > >
> > > > > Anglo? With a name like Fergusson? Seems unlikely to me.
> > > > >
> > > > > Charlie
> > > >
> > > > Here in NM, anyone who isn't Hispanic, Asian, Black or Native American
> > > > is normally referred to as 'Anglo'. It isn't a reference to a
> particular
> > > > nationality. It means she was white, which she was.
> > > >
> > >
> > > How odd. How vexatious.
> > >
> > > Charlie
> >
> > That's life at high altitude Charlie. Doesn't bother anyone that I've
> > noticed.
>
> Didn't notice me eh? ;-)
>
> Charlie

Sorry that was a Britishism slipped in. You're hard not to notice.

Chili con Queso
 

Kenneth Coble wrote:
>
> Jenn Ridley wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> >>> That's life at high altitude Charlie. Doesn't bother anyone that
> >>> I've noticed.
> >>
> >> Didn't notice me eh? ;-)
> >
> > Do you live there? then it doesn't really matter.
> >
> > FWIW, *I* knew what Anglo means in that context, and I don't even live
> > there.
> >
> > jenn
>
> Well, for what it's worth, I had some friends of various Carribean/Central
> American backgrounds while I was in school in Miami who called all
> non-black, non-Carribean/Central American, non-Asian people "Anglos." I
> took to referring to them all as "Mexican" and they got the point and at
> least stopped calling _me_ an Anglo. Of course, they'd still call my 2nd
> generation Irish-American roomate an Anglo, which ****ed him off much more
> than it had ever bothered me, and tended to prompt long speeches about the
> Sassenach history of oppressing his people, etc...
>
> Just my $0.02,
>
> Ken "German/French/Scotch Irish-American" Coble
>


Some people make a fuss about anything, don't they. I don't get offended
when people in the US call me American in a generic context. (hint: I'm
not American)

Chili con Queso
 

Olivers wrote:
>
> Arri London muttered....
>
>
> >
> > Ah but that's a feature of much American cooking to us foreigners.
> > There is a pervasive sweetness in things that weren't sweet at 'home'.
> >
>
> a collateral track...
>
> My father's mother, orphaned as a child and raised on a hardscrabble West
> Texas ranch near Buffalo Gap aspired to some gentility and the props and
> affectations of same in her old age. After my grandfather's death, she
> kept her house, and in the 7th and 8th grades I walked two blocks from
> school three days a week to lunch with her.

That's nice! Lucky you.
>
> For the first few weeks, lunch always includedd "store bought" light bread.
> I had a heck of a time convincing her that I would be more'n happy with
> biscuits and even happier with cornbread, especially the "hot water" sort,
> "fried", at which she excelled. She had served light bread because she
> truly believed in indicated a higher social status or level of
> sophistication.

She was hardly alone at that time.
When I was growing up in Holland, 'white bread' was party bread or
special occasion bread.
>
> Back in the early 50s, produce was still seasonal, and many of the meals
> would have been classed as vegetarian except for the standard additions of
> "side meat" to the cooking process. In this climate, the hardier greens
> are available well into the Winter, but dried bean season starts in October
> and runs thru April or so. Except for canned tomatoes, I don't remember
> ever having a store bought canned vegetable except for beets (always a
> "salad"). I still buy "real" hominy, the dried sort, attempting to recrate
> the miracles she could perform with a food most popular those who couldn't
> afford cornmeal.

Although I was born later, the same was true in Europe. We didn't grow
up with much in the way of canned vegetables (which often came in glass
jars anyway).
>
> Having white sugar, brown sugar, molasses and sorghum syrp available and
> affordable had given her a sweet toooth in later years, souvenir of a
> sugar-deprived childhood, and sweeteners were in many of her recipes,
> especially for yeast rolls, which put me off them for years.
>
> TMO

It was hard to get used to when I had to move to the US as an adult. As
a kid, my parents avoided those sorts of things when we were in the US.
My mother, who has lived in the US longer than I have, certainly has
picked up a sweet tooth.

When I follow most American baked goods recipes, I cut the sugar by
about half unless it's truly essential to the structure. Strangely
enough, everyone eats the stuff I bake anyway and asks for more. They
don't seem to miss the sugar, despite normally eating much more of it.

Chili con Queso
 

Arri London wrote:
> Kenneth Coble wrote:
>>
>> Jenn Ridley wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>>>> That's life at high altitude Charlie. Doesn't bother anyone that
>>>>> I've noticed.
>>>>
>>>> Didn't notice me eh? ;-)
>>>
>>> Do you live there? then it doesn't really matter.
>>>
>>> FWIW, *I* knew what Anglo means in that context, and I don't even
>>> live there.
>>>
>>> jenn
>>
>> Well, for what it's worth, I had some friends of various
>> Carribean/Central American backgrounds while I was in school in
>> Miami who called all non-black, non-Carribean/Central American,
>> non-Asian people "Anglos." I took to referring to them all as
>> "Mexican" and they got the point and at least stopped calling _me_
>> an Anglo. Of course, they'd still call my 2nd generation
>> Irish-American roomate an Anglo, which ****ed him off much more than
>> it had ever bothered me, and tended to prompt long speeches about
>> the Sassenach history of oppressing his people, etc...
>>
>> Just my $0.02,
>>
>> Ken "German/French/Scotch Irish-American" Coble
>>
>
>
> Some people make a fuss about anything, don't they. I don't get
> offended when people in the US call me American in a generic context.
> (hint: I'm not American)

I didn't get offended, I just thought it was funny to point it out what I
saw as the silliness of the "Anglo" terminology to my buddies. And have no
fear, I won't call you an American (grin). If it helps, our other roomate
would have encouraged people to call him an "Anglo," since his last name was
English...

And I'll add this, to be safe... I'm not annoyed at anyone, and I'm enjoying
this thread. I'm one of those lurkers on this group who really like to see
some good new posts, but don't have the background or the spare time to
contribute all that often (only once in the past 6 months or so, in my
case). Although if I don't start making any progress in my current quest
('town' food in the U.S. Old West, since I already have some good info on
'cowboy' or trail cooking) I might be posting again in a week, hat in
hand...

Sincerely (and no hard feelings or axe to grind, honest!),
--
Ken Coble

"As a military man your lordship may hold out the sword of war, and
call it the "ultima ratio regum": the last reason of kings; we in
return can show you the sword of justice, and call it "the best scourge
of tyrants." - Thomas Paine, "The Crisis"

Chili con Queso
 

Kenneth Coble wrote:
>
> Arri London wrote:
> > Kenneth Coble wrote:
> >>
> >> Jenn Ridley wrote:
> >>
> >> <snip>
> >>
> >>>>> That's life at high altitude Charlie. Doesn't bother anyone that
> >>>>> I've noticed.
> >>>>
> >>>> Didn't notice me eh? ;-)
> >>>
> >>> Do you live there? then it doesn't really matter.
> >>>
> >>> FWIW, *I* knew what Anglo means in that context, and I don't even
> >>> live there.
> >>>
> >>> jenn
> >>
> >> Well, for what it's worth, I had some friends of various
> >> Carribean/Central American backgrounds while I was in school in
> >> Miami who called all non-black, non-Carribean/Central American,
> >> non-Asian people "Anglos." I took to referring to them all as
> >> "Mexican" and they got the point and at least stopped calling _me_
> >> an Anglo. Of course, they'd still call my 2nd generation
> >> Irish-American roomate an Anglo, which ****ed him off much more than
> >> it had ever bothered me, and tended to prompt long speeches about
> >> the Sassenach history of oppressing his people, etc...
> >>
> >> Just my $0.02,
> >>
> >> Ken "German/French/Scotch Irish-American" Coble
> >>
> >
> >
> > Some people make a fuss about anything, don't they. I don't get
> > offended when people in the US call me American in a generic context.
> > (hint: I'm not American)
>
> I didn't get offended, I just thought it was funny to point it out what I
> saw as the silliness of the "Anglo" terminology to my buddies. And have no
> fear, I won't call you an American (grin). If it helps, our other roomate
> would have encouraged people to call him an "Anglo," since his last name was
> English...

No fear. The terminology isn't silly, as everyone in the region
understands it. Plus a lot of 'Anglos' aren't white; the term can
include mixed race people as well.
>
> And I'll add this, to be safe... I'm not annoyed at anyone, and I'm enjoying
> this thread.

Glad to have you and we know you aren't annoyed. We aren't annoyed at
you either :)

I'm one of those lurkers on this group who really like to see
> some good new posts, but don't have the background or the spare time to
> contribute all that often (only once in the past 6 months or so, in my
> case).


Background? What background? My experience/knowledge of New Mexican food
is based on living here. Just as my experience/knowledge of English/UK
food is based on having spent a third of my life there etc (I'm not
English either BTW) That's enough background for this group. Whatever
background you have is sufficient, provided you like to eat, learn about
the historical aspects of food and have a sense of humour.

Although if I don't start making any progress in my current quest
> ('town' food in the U.S. Old West, since I already have some good info on
> 'cowboy' or trail cooking) I might be posting again in a week, hat in
> hand...

That would be interesting. Keep us informed.

>
> Sincerely (and no hard feelings or axe to grind, honest!),
> --
> Ken Coble
>

LOL none here either. You'd know if there were :)

Chili con Queso
 

On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 07:28:37 -0600, Arri London >
wrote:

>Here in NM, anyone who isn't Hispanic, Asian, Black or Native American
>is normally referred to as 'Anglo'. It isn't a reference to a particular
>nationality. It means she was white, which she was.

In 'Red Sky at Morning,' Richard Bradford's novel based on a somewhat
fictionalized 1940s Santa Fe, a character says "We only recognize 3
kinds of people in Sagrado: Anglos, Indians, and Natives."..."But what
about the Negro?" "I already explained that to you. He's an Anglo.
That is, he's an Anglo unless you're differentiating between him and
an Indian. Then he's 'white.'"

Chili con Queso
 

Frogleg wrote:
>
> On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 07:28:37 -0600, Arri London >
> wrote:
>
> >Here in NM, anyone who isn't Hispanic, Asian, Black or Native American
> >is normally referred to as 'Anglo'. It isn't a reference to a particular
> >nationality. It means she was white, which she was.
>
> In 'Red Sky at Morning,' Richard Bradford's novel based on a somewhat
> fictionalized 1940s Santa Fe, a character says "We only recognize 3
> kinds of people in Sagrado: Anglos, Indians, and Natives."..."But what
> about the Negro?" "I already explained that to you. He's an Anglo.
> That is, he's an Anglo unless you're differentiating between him and
> an Indian. Then he's 'white.'"

LOL that wouldn't work any more. The Black community would tend to
resent being called Anglo.

Chili con Queso
 

"Arri London" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Frogleg wrote:
> >
> > On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 07:28:37 -0600, Arri London >
> > wrote:
> >
> > >Here in NM, anyone who isn't Hispanic, Asian, Black or Native American
> > >is normally referred to as 'Anglo'. It isn't a reference to a
particular
> > >nationality. It means she was white, which she was.
> >
> > In 'Red Sky at Morning,' Richard Bradford's novel based on a somewhat
> > fictionalized 1940s Santa Fe, a character says "We only recognize 3
> > kinds of people in Sagrado: Anglos, Indians, and Natives."..."But what
> > about the Negro?" "I already explained that to you. He's an Anglo.
> > That is, he's an Anglo unless you're differentiating between him and
> > an Indian. Then he's 'white.'"
>
> LOL that wouldn't work any more. The Black community would tend to
> resent being called Anglo.

But it isn't right when white people who aren't Anglo resent being called
Anglo? ;-)

Charlie

Chili con Queso
 

Charles Gifford wrote:
>
> "Arri London" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >
> > Frogleg wrote:
> > >
> > > On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 07:28:37 -0600, Arri London >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >Here in NM, anyone who isn't Hispanic, Asian, Black or Native American
> > > >is normally referred to as 'Anglo'. It isn't a reference to a
> particular
> > > >nationality. It means she was white, which she was.
> > >
> > > In 'Red Sky at Morning,' Richard Bradford's novel based on a somewhat
> > > fictionalized 1940s Santa Fe, a character says "We only recognize 3
> > > kinds of people in Sagrado: Anglos, Indians, and Natives."..."But what
> > > about the Negro?" "I already explained that to you. He's an Anglo.
> > > That is, he's an Anglo unless you're differentiating between him and
> > > an Indian. Then he's 'white.'"
> >
> > LOL that wouldn't work any more. The Black community would tend to
> > resent being called Anglo.
>
> But it isn't right when white people who aren't Anglo resent being called
> Anglo? ;-)
>
> Charlie

I haven't met anyone here who resents being called 'Anglo' yet. It's
understood to mean 'white' nowadays, so what's to resent if one is
white?

Chili con Queso
 

"Arri London" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Charles Gifford wrote:
> >
> > "Arri London" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > >
> > > Frogleg wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 07:28:37 -0600, Arri London >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >Here in NM, anyone who isn't Hispanic, Asian, Black or Native
American
> > > > >is normally referred to as 'Anglo'. It isn't a reference to a
> > particular
> > > > >nationality. It means she was white, which she was.
> > > >
> > > > In 'Red Sky at Morning,' Richard Bradford's novel based on a
somewhat
> > > > fictionalized 1940s Santa Fe, a character says "We only recognize 3
> > > > kinds of people in Sagrado: Anglos, Indians, and Natives."..."But
what
> > > > about the Negro?" "I already explained that to you. He's an Anglo.
> > > > That is, he's an Anglo unless you're differentiating between him and
> > > > an Indian. Then he's 'white.'"
> > >
> > > LOL that wouldn't work any more. The Black community would tend to
> > > resent being called Anglo.
> >
> > But it isn't right when white people who aren't Anglo resent being
called
> > Anglo? ;-)
> >
> > Charlie
>
> I haven't met anyone here who resents being called 'Anglo' yet. It's
> understood to mean 'white' nowadays, so what's to resent if one is
> white?

Hi! Let me introduce myself. I'm Charlie and I certainly would resent being
called Anglo. If it is understood by some people to mean white, that is a
sad commentary on their education.

Charlie

Chili con Queso
 

"Charles Gifford" > wrote:
>"Arri London" > wrote in message
>> I haven't met anyone here who resents being called 'Anglo' yet. It's
>> understood to mean 'white' nowadays, so what's to resent if one is
>> white?
>
>Hi! Let me introduce myself. I'm Charlie and I certainly would resent being
>called Anglo. If it is understood by some people to mean white, that is a
>sad commentary on their education.

You just don't get it, do you?

He's talking about a specific *regional* use of a word, and you're
getting all bent out of shape by it.

In the area where Anglo is used in this fashion, it's an acceptable
use of the word.

It doesn't matter if it's acceptable to you, since you don't live
there.

jenn
--
Jenn Ridley