I'm almost afraid to ask this, but has anyone substituted bacon bits
in place of frying bacon when making Spaghetti Carbonara?

If so, how did it taste?
Mark Anthony Ferrante

Ferrante wrote:
> I'm almost afraid to ask this, but has anyone substituted bacon bits
> in place of frying bacon when making Spaghetti Carbonara?
>
> If so, how did it taste?
> Mark Anthony Ferrante

I haven't, but if you use "real" bacon bits (rather than soy substitute like
Bac-O's) that might work. The real ones work on top of baked potatoes,
that's the only way I've tried them.

Jill

jmcquown > wrote:
>Ferrante wrote:
>> I'm almost afraid to ask this, but has anyone substituted bacon bits
>> in place of frying bacon when making Spaghetti Carbonara?
>>
>> If so, how did it taste?
>> Mark Anthony Ferrante
>
>I haven't, but if you use "real" bacon bits (rather than soy substitute like
>Bac-O's) that might work. The real ones work on top of baked potatoes,
>that's the only way I've tried them.

I've had expensive restaurants send out carbonara with no
meat on them at all, so bacon bits would have been welcome.

I'd say it's as okay as using bacon instead of Pancetta.

--Blair
"This is an artificially-flavored
Usenet posting."

In article >, Ferrante
> wrote:

> I'm almost afraid to ask this, but has anyone substituted bacon bits
> in place of frying bacon when making Spaghetti Carbonara?
>
> If so, how did it taste?
> Mark Anthony Ferrante

Store-bought "real" bacon bits seemed to be saltier than most
store-bought bacon fried and crumbled. Check your batch and watch your
portions and it should work.

Ferrante wrote:
>
> I'm almost afraid to ask this, but has anyone substituted bacon bits
> in place of frying bacon when making Spaghetti Carbonara?

I'm trying to picture a scenario where this would be desirable.
What's the problem with just cooking up some bacon? I hate bacon
bits, so I'm prejudiced. When I say what's the problem, I don't
mean it in a snotty way, I can only assume there's some reason you
can't or don't want to.

nancy

"Ferrante" > wrote in message
news
> I'm almost afraid to ask this, but has anyone substituted bacon bits
> in place of frying bacon when making Spaghetti Carbonara?
>
> If so, how did it taste?
> Mark Anthony Ferrante

Just to be clear the original recipe has the following:

Pancetta not bacon
cooked spaghetti
eggs
cheese
Pasta water.

Because the pancetta is cured and not smoked the dish has a very particular
flavor.

[pan-CHEH-tuh]
An Italian bacon that is cured with salt and spices but not smoked.
Flavorful, slightly salty pancetta comes in a sausagelike roll. It's used in
Italian cooking to flavor sauces, pasta dishes, FORCEMEATS, vegetables and
meats. Pancetta can be tightly wrapped and refrigerated for up to 3 weeks,
or frozen up to 6 months.

IMHO substituting bacon is not recommendable even if it be artificial bacon.

Dimitri

"Dimitri" > wrote in message . com>...
> "Ferrante" > wrote in message
> news
> > I'm almost afraid to ask this, but has anyone substituted bacon bits
> > in place of frying bacon when making Spaghetti Carbonara?
> >
> > If so, how did it taste?
> > Mark Anthony Ferrante
>
> Just to be clear the original recipe has the following:
>
> Pancetta not bacon
> cooked spaghetti
> eggs
> cheese
> Pasta water.
>
> Because the pancetta is cured and not smoked the dish has a very particular
> flavor.
>
> [pan-CHEH-tuh]
> An Italian bacon that is cured with salt and spices but not smoked.
> Flavorful, slightly salty pancetta comes in a sausagelike roll. It's used in
> Italian cooking to flavor sauces, pasta dishes, FORCEMEATS, vegetables and
> meats. Pancetta can be tightly wrapped and refrigerated for up to 3 weeks,
> or frozen up to 6 months.
>
> IMHO substituting bacon is not recommendable even if it be artificial bacon.
>
> Dimitri

Mario Batali, whom is very well respected for his knowledge and
appreciation of traditional Italian cuisine, once said on his show
that bacon is a fine substitute for panchetta and he went on to say
that the curing of bacon in America is superior to that of Italy. We
shouldn't be so enamored with the ingredients when it is the process
not the ingredients that is important in any cooking.

Vince Poroke wrote:

> "Dimitri" > wrote in message . com>...
>
>>"Ferrante" > wrote in message
>>news >>
>>>I'm almost afraid to ask this, but has anyone substituted bacon bits
>>>in place of frying bacon when making Spaghetti Carbonara?
>>>
>>>If so, how did it taste?
>>>Mark Anthony Ferrante
>>
>>Just to be clear the original recipe has the following:
>>
>>Pancetta not bacon
>>cooked spaghetti
>>eggs
>>cheese
>>Pasta water.
>>
>>Because the pancetta is cured and not smoked the dish has a very particular
>>flavor.
>>
>>[pan-CHEH-tuh]
>>An Italian bacon that is cured with salt and spices but not smoked.
>>Flavorful, slightly salty pancetta comes in a sausagelike roll. It's used in
>>Italian cooking to flavor sauces, pasta dishes, FORCEMEATS, vegetables and
>>meats. Pancetta can be tightly wrapped and refrigerated for up to 3 weeks,
>>or frozen up to 6 months.
>>
>>IMHO substituting bacon is not recommendable even if it be artificial bacon.
>>
>>Dimitri
>
>
> Mario Batali, whom is very well respected for his knowledge and
> appreciation of traditional Italian cuisine, once said on his show
> that bacon is a fine substitute for panchetta and he went on to say
> that the curing of bacon in America is superior to that of Italy. We
> shouldn't be so enamored with the ingredients when it is the process
> not the ingredients that is important in any cooking.

But, Dimitri was not speaking of curing. He was mentioning that pancetta
is NOT smoked, as is much of U.S. bacon. It does make a difference.
--
Alan

"If you reject the food, ignore the customs, fear the religion, and
avoid the people, you might better stay home."
--James Michener

Dimitri wrote:

> "Ferrante" > wrote in message
> news >
>>I'm almost afraid to ask this, but has anyone substituted bacon bits
>>in place of frying bacon when making Spaghetti Carbonara?
>>
>>If so, how did it taste?
>>Mark Anthony Ferrante
>
>
> Just to be clear the original recipe has the following:
>
> Pancetta not bacon
> cooked spaghetti
> eggs
> cheese
> Pasta water.
>
> Because the pancetta is cured and not smoked the dish has a very particular
> flavor.
>
> [pan-CHEH-tuh]
> An Italian bacon that is cured with salt and spices but not smoked.
> Flavorful, slightly salty pancetta comes in a sausagelike roll. It's used in
> Italian cooking to flavor sauces, pasta dishes, FORCEMEATS, vegetables and
> meats. Pancetta can be tightly wrapped and refrigerated for up to 3 weeks,
> or frozen up to 6 months.
>
> IMHO substituting bacon is not recommendable even if it be artificial bacon.
>
> Dimitri
>
>
>

Gee, maybe we can start a war, like fetuccine alfredo.

--
Alan

"If you reject the food, ignore the customs, fear the religion, and
avoid the people, you might better stay home."
--James Michener

On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 21:22:35 GMT, "Dimitri"
> wrote:

>
> Just to be clear the original recipe has the following:
>
> Pancetta not bacon

Those of us who don't like pancetta can substitute bacon...
we think the taste isn't the same, it's better.

"alzelt" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Dimitri wrote:
>
> > "Ferrante" > wrote in message
> > news > >
> >>I'm almost afraid to ask this, but has anyone substituted bacon bits
> >>in place of frying bacon when making Spaghetti Carbonara?
> >>
> >>If so, how did it taste?
> >>Mark Anthony Ferrante
> >
> >
> > Just to be clear the original recipe has the following:
> >
> > Pancetta not bacon
> > cooked spaghetti
> > eggs
> > cheese
> > Pasta water.
> >
> > Because the pancetta is cured and not smoked the dish has a very
particular
> > flavor.
> >
> > [pan-CHEH-tuh]
> > An Italian bacon that is cured with salt and spices but not smoked.
> > Flavorful, slightly salty pancetta comes in a sausagelike roll. It's
used in
> > Italian cooking to flavor sauces, pasta dishes, FORCEMEATS, vegetables
and
> > meats. Pancetta can be tightly wrapped and refrigerated for up to 3
weeks,
> > or frozen up to 6 months.
> >
> > IMHO substituting bacon is not recommendable even if it be artificial
bacon.
> >
> > Dimitri
> >
> >
> >
>
> Gee, maybe we can start a war, like fetuccine alfredo.
>
> --
> Alan

:-)

lol

Dimitri

"sf" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 21:22:35 GMT, "Dimitri"
> > wrote:
>
> >
> > Just to be clear the original recipe has the following:
> >
> > Pancetta not bacon
>
> Those of us who don't like pancetta can substitute bacon...
> we think the taste isn't the same, it's better.

Then call it smoked carbonara or bacon carbonara.

That is like saying, I like Asian pears better that apples so I'm going to
make an apple pie using Asian pears but I'll continue to call it an apple
pie.

Carbonara is made with Pancetta not bacon, not ham, not sausage, not
molinari, not Genoa, it's made with Pancetta. For goodness sake make it with
salmon jerky if you like but call it something else.


Dimitri.

"Dimitri" > wrote in message
. com...
>
> "sf" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 21:22:35 GMT, "Dimitri"
> > > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Just to be clear the original recipe has the following:
> > >
> > > Pancetta not bacon
> >
> > Those of us who don't like pancetta can substitute bacon...
> > we think the taste isn't the same, it's better.
>
> Then call it smoked carbonara or bacon carbonara.
>
> That is like saying, I like Asian pears better that apples so I'm going to
> make an apple pie using Asian pears but I'll continue to call it an apple
> pie.
>
> Carbonara is made with Pancetta not bacon, not ham, not sausage, not
> molinari, not Genoa, it's made with Pancetta. For goodness sake make it
with
> salmon jerky if you like but call it something else.
>
>

Unfortunately for your claims, Dmitri, carbonara sauce is properly and
traditionally made with smoked American style bacon. In fact it has been
suggested that the sauce originated in WW2 when American soldiers would take
bacon to local women and ask them to make a sauce with it. In Italy it is
usually made with smoked bacon but in Rome the bacon is sometimes replaced
with pork jowl. The use of pancetta is a substitute for the pork jowl.

This information comes from Marcella Hazan's cookbook.


--
Peter Aitken

Remove the crap from my email address before using.

"Peter Aitken" > wrote in message
...
> "Dimitri" > wrote in message
> . com...
> >
> > "sf" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 21:22:35 GMT, "Dimitri"
> > > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Just to be clear the original recipe has the following:
> > > >
> > > > Pancetta not bacon
> > >
> > > Those of us who don't like pancetta can substitute bacon...
> > > we think the taste isn't the same, it's better.
> >
> > Then call it smoked carbonara or bacon carbonara.
> >
> > That is like saying, I like Asian pears better that apples so I'm going
to
> > make an apple pie using Asian pears but I'll continue to call it an
apple
> > pie.
> >
> > Carbonara is made with Pancetta not bacon, not ham, not sausage, not
> > molinari, not Genoa, it's made with Pancetta. For goodness sake make it
> with
> > salmon jerky if you like but call it something else.
> >
> >
>
> Unfortunately for your claims, Dmitri, carbonara sauce is properly and
> traditionally made with smoked American style bacon. In fact it has been
> suggested that the sauce originated in WW2 when American soldiers would
take
> bacon to local women and ask them to make a sauce with it. In Italy it is
> usually made with smoked bacon but in Rome the bacon is sometimes replaced
> with pork jowl. The use of pancetta is a substitute for the pork jowl.
>
> This information comes from Marcella Hazan's cookbook.
>
>
> --
> Peter Aitken
>
> Remove the crap from my email address before using.
>
>

"Peter Aitken" > wrote in message
...


> Unfortunately for your claims, Dmitri, carbonara sauce is properly and
> traditionally made with smoked American style bacon. In fact it has been
> suggested that the sauce originated in WW2 when American soldiers would
take
> bacon to local women and ask them to make a sauce with it. In Italy it is
> usually made with smoked bacon but in Rome the bacon is sometimes replaced
> with pork jowl. The use of pancetta is a substitute for the pork jowl.
>
> This information comes from Marcella Hazan's cookbook.
>
>
> --
> Peter Aitken

Actually the legend of the origin of Carbonara and it's origin come from the
"charcoal makers" el carbonari (I believe) who were looking to easily
transportable food for their trek into the mountains to make the charcoal.
Dry Pasta, Pancetta and cheese need no refrigeration and eggs can be readily
found along the way. The sauce did not originate in WW II - that is a myth;

See : http://www.theartisan.net/FauxPas_Frameset.htm

click on carbonara.

Hark! I heard "Dimitri" > say:

<snip>

> See : http://www.theartisan.net/FauxPas_Frameset.htm
>
> click on carbonara.

I love this line:

"Maybe we live shorter lives because we die from worrying about what
we eat."


--
j*ni p. ~ mom, gamer, novice cook ~
...fish heads, fish heads, eat them up, yum!

"Dimitri" > wrote in message
om...
>
> "Peter Aitken" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>
> > Unfortunately for your claims, Dmitri, carbonara sauce is properly and
> > traditionally made with smoked American style bacon. In fact it has been
> > suggested that the sauce originated in WW2 when American soldiers would
> take
> > bacon to local women and ask them to make a sauce with it. In Italy it
is
> > usually made with smoked bacon but in Rome the bacon is sometimes
replaced
> > with pork jowl. The use of pancetta is a substitute for the pork jowl.
> >
> > This information comes from Marcella Hazan's cookbook.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Peter Aitken
>
> Actually the legend of the origin of Carbonara and it's origin come from
the
> "charcoal makers" el carbonari (I believe) who were looking to easily
> transportable food for their trek into the mountains to make the charcoal.
> Dry Pasta, Pancetta and cheese need no refrigeration and eggs can be
readily
> found along the way. The sauce did not originate in WW II - that is a
myth;
>
> See : http://www.theartisan.net/FauxPas_Frameset.htm
>
> click on carbonara.
>

The origins of the dish are obviously not known for sure - even your source
uses "probably" when presenting its version. In any case, the important
point is that the dish has a legitimate tradition of sometimes being made
with smoked bacon and your earlier fulminations about how it can only be
made with pancetta were, in a word, wrong.


--
Peter Aitken

Remove the crap from my email address before using.

alzelt wrote:

>
>
> Vince Poroke wrote:
>
>> "Dimitri" > wrote in message
>> . com>...
>>
>>> "Ferrante" > wrote in message
>>> news >>>
>>>> I'm almost afraid to ask this, but has anyone substituted bacon bits
>>>> in place of frying bacon when making Spaghetti Carbonara?
>>>>
>>>> If so, how did it taste?
>>>> Mark Anthony Ferrante
>>>
>>>
>>> Just to be clear the original recipe has the following:
>>>
>>> Pancetta not bacon
>>> cooked spaghetti
>>> eggs
>>> cheese
>>> Pasta water.
>>>
>>> Because the pancetta is cured and not smoked the dish has a very
>>> particular
>>> flavor.
>>>
>>> [pan-CHEH-tuh]
>>> An Italian bacon that is cured with salt and spices but not smoked.
>>> Flavorful, slightly salty pancetta comes in a sausagelike roll. It's
>>> used in
>>> Italian cooking to flavor sauces, pasta dishes, FORCEMEATS,
>>> vegetables and
>>> meats. Pancetta can be tightly wrapped and refrigerated for up to 3
>>> weeks,
>>> or frozen up to 6 months.
>>>
>>> IMHO substituting bacon is not recommendable even if it be artificial
>>> bacon.
>>>
>>> Dimitri
>>
>> Mario Batali, whom is very well respected for his knowledge and
>> appreciation of traditional Italian cuisine, once said on his show
>> that bacon is a fine substitute for panchetta and he went on to say
>> that the curing of bacon in America is superior to that of Italy. We
>> shouldn't be so enamored with the ingredients when it is the process
>> not the ingredients that is important in any cooking.
>
> But, Dimitri was not speaking of curing. He was mentioning that pancetta
> is NOT smoked, as is much of U.S. bacon. It does make a difference.

Exactly. There's one small technique that can get American bacon
somewhat closer to Pancetta. Blanch it. Drop the bacon into boiling
water and let it go for a couple minutes. It'll draw out a good bit of
the salt and appreciably diminish the smoke flavor. Still be a good
amount of tasty fat for the dish.

I have to disagree with the statement that "...it is the process not
the ingredients that is important in any cooking." Both process and
ingredients are determinants of finished quality.

Pastorio

Peter Aitken wrote:

> "Dimitri" > wrote in message
> . com...
>
>>"sf" > wrote in message
. ..
>>
>>>On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 21:22:35 GMT, "Dimitri"
> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Just to be clear the original recipe has the following:
>>>>
>>>> Pancetta not bacon
>>>
>>>Those of us who don't like pancetta can substitute bacon...
>>>we think the taste isn't the same, it's better.
>>
>>Then call it smoked carbonara or bacon carbonara.
>>
>>That is like saying, I like Asian pears better that apples so I'm going to
>>make an apple pie using Asian pears but I'll continue to call it an apple
>>pie.
>>
>>Carbonara is made with Pancetta not bacon, not ham, not sausage, not
>>molinari, not Genoa, it's made with Pancetta. For goodness sake make it
> with salmon jerky if you like but call it something else.
>>
> Unfortunately for your claims, Dmitri, carbonara sauce is properly and
> traditionally made with smoked American style bacon. In fact it has been
> suggested that the sauce originated in WW2 when American soldiers would take
> bacon to local women and ask them to make a sauce with it. In Italy it is
> usually made with smoked bacon but in Rome the bacon is sometimes replaced
> with pork jowl. The use of pancetta is a substitute for the pork jowl.
>
> This information comes from Marcella Hazan's cookbook.

The extension of this conjecture on origin is that it was made with
the ingredients of the rations that the GI's carried including
powdered eggs. Yum. But, hey, better than not eating.

Carbonara isn't properly a sauce, like Alfredo isn't a sauce. Both are
techniques that dress cooked pasta with ingredients rather than pasta
and separately-prepared sauce combined for service. They're more
accurately described as assembled rather than combined.

Smoked foods aren't commonly found in the Italian larder. Even today,
smoked bacon is a relative rarity in Italy. I had a carbonara variant
in Milan made with a good Italian Speck (smoked ham) some years ago.
The smoke flavor was considerably more subtle than bacon and I liked
it better.

Pastorio

Bob Pastorio wrote:
> Peter Aitken wrote:
>
>> "Dimitri" > wrote in message
>> . com...
>>
>>> "sf" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 21:22:35 GMT, "Dimitri"
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Just to be clear the original recipe has the following:
>>>>>
>>>>> Pancetta not bacon
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Those of us who don't like pancetta can substitute bacon...
>>>> we think the taste isn't the same, it's better.
>>>
>>>
>>> Then call it smoked carbonara or bacon carbonara.
>>>
>>> That is like saying, I like Asian pears better that apples so I'm
>>> going to
>>> make an apple pie using Asian pears but I'll continue to call it an
>>> apple
>>> pie.
>>>
>>> Carbonara is made with Pancetta not bacon, not ham, not sausage, not
>>> molinari, not Genoa, it's made with Pancetta. For goodness sake make it
>>
>> with salmon jerky if you like but call it something else.
>>
>>>
>> Unfortunately for your claims, Dmitri, carbonara sauce is properly and
>> traditionally made with smoked American style bacon. In fact it has been
>> suggested that the sauce originated in WW2 when American soldiers
>> would take
>> bacon to local women and ask them to make a sauce with it. In Italy it is
>> usually made with smoked bacon but in Rome the bacon is sometimes
>> replaced
>> with pork jowl. The use of pancetta is a substitute for the pork jowl.
>>
>> This information comes from Marcella Hazan's cookbook.
>
>
> The extension of this conjecture on origin is that it was made with the
> ingredients of the rations that the GI's carried including powdered
> eggs. Yum. But, hey, better than not eating.
>
> Carbonara isn't properly a sauce, like Alfredo isn't a sauce. Both are
> techniques that dress cooked pasta with ingredients rather than pasta
> and separately-prepared sauce combined for service. They're more
> accurately described as assembled rather than combined.
>
> Smoked foods aren't commonly found in the Italian larder. Even today,
> smoked bacon is a relative rarity in Italy. I had a carbonara variant in
> Milan made with a good Italian Speck (smoked ham) some years ago. The
> smoke flavor was considerably more subtle than bacon and I liked it better.
>
> Pastorio
>


How 'bout substituting American "salt pork" for the
bacon/pancetta/whatever? It's cured but not smoked, and IIRC has little if
any lean meat in it.

Bob

"zxcvbob" > wrote in message
...
> Bob Pastorio wrote:

<snip>

> > Smoked foods aren't commonly found in the Italian larder. Even today,
> > smoked bacon is a relative rarity in Italy. I had a carbonara variant in
> > Milan made with a good Italian Speck (smoked ham) some years ago. The
> > smoke flavor was considerably more subtle than bacon and I liked it
better.
> >
> > Pastorio
> >
>
>
> How 'bout substituting American "salt pork" for the
> bacon/pancetta/whatever? It's cured but not smoked, and IIRC has little
if
> any lean meat in it.
>
> Bob


Please keep in mind the pancetta is cured with herbs, spices, and salt. The
exact recipe will change from maker to maker.

It is not just salty browned pork fat - if that's what you want then blanch
the salt pork several times and fry it up, or blanch the bacon to remove the
"artificial smoke" . Personally, I prefer the taste of good pancetta.


Dimitri

Dimitri wrote:

> "Peter Aitken" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>
>
>>Unfortunately for your claims, Dmitri, carbonara sauce is properly and
>>traditionally made with smoked American style bacon. In fact it has been
>>suggested that the sauce originated in WW2 when American soldiers would
>
> take
>
>>bacon to local women and ask them to make a sauce with it. In Italy it is
>>usually made with smoked bacon but in Rome the bacon is sometimes replaced
>>with pork jowl. The use of pancetta is a substitute for the pork jowl.
>>
>>This information comes from Marcella Hazan's cookbook.
>>
>>--
>>Peter Aitken
>
> Actually the legend of the origin of Carbonara and it's origin come from the
> "charcoal makers" el carbonari (I believe) who were looking to easily
> transportable food for their trek into the mountains to make the charcoal.
> Dry Pasta, Pancetta and cheese need no refrigeration and eggs can be readily
> found along the way. The sauce did not originate in WW II - that is a myth;
>
> See : http://www.theartisan.net/FauxPas_Frameset.htm
>
> click on carbonara.

The problem with the artisan's explanation is that before WW11, pasta
Carbonara was unknown. He says that 'carbonari' are coal vendors.
They're charcoal makers.

In "Portrait of Pasta" by Anna Del Conte, she says, "Nobody knows
where this sauce got its name. It has no apparent relation to coal
(carbone), and there is no record of its being created by the
'Carbonari', a secret sect who fought for the independence of Italy
during the Risorgimento. Whatever its origin, 'Spaghetti alla
Carbonara' became a very popular dish in Italy after the second world
war. This is presumably because it was loved by the Allied Troops
since it combines their old favorites, bacon and eggs."

Julia Della Croce in "Pasta Classica" says essentially that nobody
knows where the name came from.

Several Italian writers say it's Roman in origin. Simonetta Lupi Vada
says it's from "Lazio, Umbria and The Marches."

I looked in a few older Italian cookbooks and they don't even mention
it. Sicilian and alpine books don't mention it. Pellegrino Artusi
(1820-1911) in "The Art of Eating Well" translated by Kyle Phillips
makes no mention of anything like it. It's the equivalent of an
Italian "Joy of Cooking."

In Ada Boni's 1950 version of "The Talisman Italian Cook Book" [sic],
no mention. In her 1969 book, there it is.

After looking at 20 Italian cookbooks, it becomes clear that no one
knows 1) when it was developed; 2) where it was developed; 3) where
the name came from; 4) what prompted Italians who don't do bacon and
eggs to combine them in a unique dish 5) why the hell somebody didn't
write something about it back then.

This must remain a mystery like "Who put the bomp in the
bomp-bomp-she-bomp?" Perhaps we will never know...

Pastorio

Hark! I heard Bob Pastorio > say:

<snip>
> The problem with the artisan's explanation is that before WW11

Yeesh, I hope that's supposed to be WWII...


--
j*ni p. ~ mom, gamer, novice cook ~
...fish heads, fish heads, eat them up, yum!

j*ni p. wrote:

> Hark! I heard Bob Pastorio > say:
>
> <snip>
>
>>The problem with the artisan's explanation is that before WW11
>
> Yeesh, I hope that's supposed to be WWII...

Don't you read the papers? It's been in all of them.

I bet you missed 6, 7 and 8, too. Not to mention 9 and 10.

Kids today...

Pastorio (you're right, of course.)

On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 06:24:06 GMT, alzelt
> wrote:

>
>
>Dimitri wrote:
>
>> "Ferrante" > wrote in message
>> news >>
>>>I'm almost afraid to ask this, but has anyone substituted bacon bits
>>>in place of frying bacon when making Spaghetti Carbonara?
>>>
>>>If so, how did it taste?
>>>Mark Anthony Ferrante
>>
>>
>> Just to be clear the original recipe has the following:
>>
>> Pancetta not bacon
>> cooked spaghetti
>> eggs
>> cheese
>> Pasta water.
>>
>> Because the pancetta is cured and not smoked the dish has a very particular
>> flavor.
>>
>> [pan-CHEH-tuh]
>> An Italian bacon that is cured with salt and spices but not smoked.
>> Flavorful, slightly salty pancetta comes in a sausagelike roll. It's used in
>> Italian cooking to flavor sauces, pasta dishes, FORCEMEATS, vegetables and
>> meats. Pancetta can be tightly wrapped and refrigerated for up to 3 weeks,
>> or frozen up to 6 months.
>>
>> IMHO substituting bacon is not recommendable even if it be artificial bacon.
>>
>> Dimitri
>>
>>
>>
>
>Gee, maybe we can start a war, like fetuccine alfredo.

You mean that nice creamy sauce that Charliam likes so much?

Harry

Harry Demidavicius wrote:

>>>
>>>IMHO substituting bacon is not recommendable even if it be artificial bacon.
>>>
>>>Dimitri
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Gee, maybe we can start a war, like fetuccine alfredo.
>
>
> You mean that nice creamy sauce that Charliam likes so much?
>
> Harry

Yeah, the one with heavy cream.
--
Alan

"If you reject the food, ignore the customs, fear the religion, and
avoid the people, you might better stay home."
--James Michener

(Vince Poroke) wrote >We
> shouldn't be so enamored with the ingredients when it is the process
> not the ingredients that is important in any cooking.


EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRM. Wrong answer. Go to the
rear of the auditorium and collect your consolation prize--a bottle of
"Baco's." Which by the way taste like dirty, spent cigarette butts.
Perfect for your style of cooking??

"Dimitri" > wrote in message .com>...
> "sf" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Mon, 06 Oct 2003 21:22:35 GMT, "Dimitri"
> > > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Just to be clear the original recipe has the following:
> > >
> > > Pancetta not bacon
> >
> > Those of us who don't like pancetta can substitute bacon...
> > we think the taste isn't the same, it's better.
>
> Then call it smoked carbonara or bacon carbonara.
>
> That is like saying, I like Asian pears better that apples so I'm going to
> make an apple pie using Asian pears but I'll continue to call it an apple
> pie.
>
> Carbonara is made with Pancetta not bacon, not ham, not sausage, not
> molinari, not Genoa, it's made with Pancetta. For goodness sake make it with
> salmon jerky if you like but call it something else.
>
>
> Dimitri.

It would be called Salmon Jerky Carbonara. Carbonara is the process
of using eggs, pork fat and cheese to make a sauce. What you add to
it is based on taste. Is not still spagetti and meatballs if the meat
balls are made with veal and pork with green peppers and the sauce is
amatrice. It is a matter of taste but the dish has the same name. I
go back to what I stated "focus on the process not the ingredients" I
have made dishes with both panchetta and bacon even fat back, I and
the people I cook for prefer bacon.

>>
>> Mario Batali, whom is very well respected for his knowledge and
>> appreciation of traditional Italian cuisine, once said on his show
>> that bacon is a fine substitute for panchetta and he went on to say
>> that the curing of bacon in America is superior to that of Italy. We
>> shouldn't be so enamored with the ingredients when it is the process
>> not the ingredients that is important in any cooking.
>
>But, Dimitri was not speaking of curing. He was mentioning that pancetta
>is NOT smoked, as is much of U.S. bacon. It does make a difference.


On a recent episode of Martha Stewart on foodtv, I saw Mario Batali
cooking Pasta ala carbonara using guanciale(bad spelling) which is pig
jaw. He also stressed that traditionally, the dish was made without
cream, as it is commonly made in the US. He also said bacon or
panchetta was a fine substitute.
http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/reci..._13728,00.html

I didn't find much different in the taste between panchetta and
non-smoked cured bacon strips.ALthough the pancehtta had a meatier
quality, and the bacon was easier to burn.

"Vince Poroke" > wrote in message
om...

<snip>

> > Carbonara is made with Pancetta not bacon, not ham, not sausage, not
> > molinari, not Genoa, it's made with Pancetta. For goodness sake make it
with
> > salmon jerky if you like but call it something else.
> >
> >
> > Dimitri.
>
> It would be called Salmon Jerky Carbonara. Carbonara is the process
> of using eggs, pork fat and cheese to make a sauce. What you add to
> it is based on taste. Is not still spagetti and meatballs if the meat
> balls are made with veal and pork with green peppers and the sauce is
> amatrice. It is a matter of taste but the dish has the same name. I
> go back to what I stated "focus on the process not the ingredients"

Bull Shit!

The process is making a creamy sauce from the eggs, cheese, and pasta water.
That is why some pasta water is kept on the side in case the "sauce seizes".
This is basically the same process used in a Greek avgolemano soup which
uses eggs to thicken and make a chicken soup "Creamy & Thick"

You can not make a carbonara without eggs! IMHO using cream is a
accommodation to the inexperienced or to lazy restaurants.

If you prefer bacon I really don't give a rats ass that's your choice but it
ain't carbonara. How about making Veal Oscar using Chicken and broccoli?
Next time why don' you mesquite smoke a cheese cake and call it a New York
cheese cake.

Dimitri

"Dimitri" > wrote in message
m...
>
> "Vince Poroke" > wrote in message
> om...
>
> <snip>
>
> > > Carbonara is made with Pancetta not bacon, not ham, not sausage, not
> > > molinari, not Genoa, it's made with Pancetta. For goodness sake make
it
> with
> > > salmon jerky if you like but call it something else.
> > >
> > >
> > > Dimitri.
> >
> > It would be called Salmon Jerky Carbonara. Carbonara is the process
> > of using eggs, pork fat and cheese to make a sauce. What you add to
> > it is based on taste. Is not still spagetti and meatballs if the meat
> > balls are made with veal and pork with green peppers and the sauce is
> > amatrice. It is a matter of taste but the dish has the same name. I
> > go back to what I stated "focus on the process not the ingredients"
>
> Bull Shit!
>
> The process is making a creamy sauce from the eggs, cheese, and pasta
water.
> That is why some pasta water is kept on the side in case the "sauce
seizes".
> This is basically the same process used in a Greek avgolemano soup which
> uses eggs to thicken and make a chicken soup "Creamy & Thick"
>
> You can not make a carbonara without eggs! IMHO using cream is a
> accommodation to the inexperienced or to lazy restaurants.
>
> If you prefer bacon I really don't give a rats ass that's your choice but
it
> ain't carbonara. How about making Veal Oscar using Chicken and broccoli?
> Next time why don' you mesquite smoke a cheese cake and call it a New York
> cheese cake.
>

Do you have an allergy to learning anything? I and others have pointed out
that carbonara is traditionally made with smoked bacon *or* pancetta and
provided authoritative references and yet you continue with your silly
claims to the contrary. Are you incapable of admitting you are wrong?
Everyone knows you are wrong by now so why keep up the pretense? You're not
fooling anyone (except yourself, perhaps).

--
Peter Aitken

Remove the crap from my email address before using.

"Dimitri" > wrote in message om>...
> "Vince Poroke" > wrote in message
> om...
>
> <snip>
>
> > > Carbonara is made with Pancetta not bacon, not ham, not sausage, not
> > > molinari, not Genoa, it's made with Pancetta. For goodness sake make it
> with
> > > salmon jerky if you like but call it something else.
> > >
> > >
> > > Dimitri.
> >
> > It would be called Salmon Jerky Carbonara. Carbonara is the process
> > of using eggs, pork fat and cheese to make a sauce. What you add to
> > it is based on taste. Is not still spagetti and meatballs if the meat
> > balls are made with veal and pork with green peppers and the sauce is
> > amatrice. It is a matter of taste but the dish has the same name. I
> > go back to what I stated "focus on the process not the ingredients"
>
> Bull Shit!
>
> The process is making a creamy sauce from the eggs, cheese, and pasta water.
> That is why some pasta water is kept on the side in case the "sauce seizes".
> This is basically the same process used in a Greek avgolemano soup which
> uses eggs to thicken and make a chicken soup "Creamy & Thick"
>
> You can not make a carbonara without eggs! IMHO using cream is a
> accommodation to the inexperienced or to lazy restaurants.
>
> If you prefer bacon I really don't give a rats ass that's your choice but it
> ain't carbonara. How about making Veal Oscar using Chicken and broccoli?
> Next time why don' you mesquite smoke a cheese cake and call it a New York
> cheese cake.
>
> Dimitri

Who said anything about cream. You can put cream in it and make a
mock cabonara. It would be called a smoked new york cheese cake. The
basic ingredients are their and then you add your twist. That is what
makes good cooking great. Take what someone else has done and make it
fit your families pallet. I would not want to eat from a cook that
doesn't know how to add his own personality to his cooking.

"Dimitri" > wrote in message om>...
> "Vince Poroke" > wrote in message
> om...
>
> <snip>
>
> > > Carbonara is made with Pancetta not bacon, not ham, not sausage, not
> > > molinari, not Genoa, it's made with Pancetta. For goodness sake make it
> with
> > > salmon jerky if you like but call it something else.
> > >
> > >
> > > Dimitri.
> >
> > It would be called Salmon Jerky Carbonara. Carbonara is the process
> > of using eggs, pork fat and cheese to make a sauce. What you add to
> > it is based on taste. Is not still spagetti and meatballs if the meat
> > balls are made with veal and pork with green peppers and the sauce is
> > amatrice. It is a matter of taste but the dish has the same name. I
> > go back to what I stated "focus on the process not the ingredients"
>
> Bull Shit!
>
> The process is making a creamy sauce from the eggs, cheese, and pasta water.
> That is why some pasta water is kept on the side in case the "sauce seizes".
> This is basically the same process used in a Greek avgolemano soup which
> uses eggs to thicken and make a chicken soup "Creamy & Thick"
>
> You can not make a carbonara without eggs! IMHO using cream is a
> accommodation to the inexperienced or to lazy restaurants.
>
> If you prefer bacon I really don't give a rats ass that's your choice but it
> ain't carbonara. How about making Veal Oscar using Chicken and broccoli?
> Next time why don' you mesquite smoke a cheese cake and call it a New York
> cheese cake.
>
> Dimitri

Who said anything about cream. You can put cream in it and make a
mock cabonara. It would be called a smoked new york cheese cake. The
basic ingredients are their and then you add your twist. That is what
makes good cooking great. Take what someone else has done and make it
fit your families pallet. I would not want to eat from a cook that
doesn't know how to add his own personality to his cooking.

"Vince Poroke" > wrote in message
om...
>
> Who said anything about cream. You can put cream in it and make a
> mock cabonara. It would be called a smoked new york cheese cake. The
> basic ingredients are their and then you add your twist. That is what
> makes good cooking great. Take what someone else has done and make it
> fit your families pallet. I would not want to eat from a cook that
> doesn't know how to add his own personality to his cooking.

True that, I think a good cook should have passion for what it's cooking.
Bu-u-u-t, if you're gonna change things, don't sell it under the original
banner...

Jack Ur

> wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 07 Oct 2003 14:00:32 -0400, Bob Pastorio >
> wrote:
>
> >alzelt wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> Vince Poroke wrote:
> >>
> >>> "Dimitri" > wrote in message
> >>> . com>...
> >>>
> >>>> "Ferrante" > wrote in message
> >>>> news > >>>>
> >>>>> I'm almost afraid to ask this, but has anyone substituted bacon bits
> >>>>> in place of frying bacon when making Spaghetti Carbonara?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If so, how did it taste?
> >>>>> Mark Anthony Ferrante
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Just to be clear the original recipe has the following:
> >>>>
> >>>> Pancetta not bacon
> >>>> cooked spaghetti
> >>>> eggs
> >>>> cheese
> >>>> Pasta water.
> >>>>
> >>>> Because the pancetta is cured and not smoked the dish has a very
> >>>> particular
> >>>> flavor.
> >>>>
> >>>> [pan-CHEH-tuh]
> >>>> An Italian bacon that is cured with salt and spices but not smoked.
> >>>> Flavorful, slightly salty pancetta comes in a sausagelike roll. It's
> >>>> used in
> >>>> Italian cooking to flavor sauces, pasta dishes, FORCEMEATS,
> >>>> vegetables and
> >>>> meats. Pancetta can be tightly wrapped and refrigerated for up to 3
> >>>> weeks,
> >>>> or frozen up to 6 months.
> >>>>
> >>>> IMHO substituting bacon is not recommendable even if it be artificial
> >>>> bacon.
> >>>>
> >>>> Dimitri
> >>>
> >>> Mario Batali, whom is very well respected for his knowledge and
> >>> appreciation of traditional Italian cuisine, once said on his show
> >>> that bacon is a fine substitute for panchetta and he went on to say
> >>> that the curing of bacon in America is superior to that of Italy. We
> >>> shouldn't be so enamored with the ingredients when it is the process
> >>> not the ingredients that is important in any cooking.
> >>
> >> But, Dimitri was not speaking of curing. He was mentioning that
pancetta
> >> is NOT smoked, as is much of U.S. bacon. It does make a difference.
> >
> >Exactly. There's one small technique that can get American bacon
> >somewhat closer to Pancetta. Blanch it. Drop the bacon into boiling
> >water and let it go for a couple minutes. It'll draw out a good bit of
> >the salt and appreciably diminish the smoke flavor. Still be a good
> >amount of tasty fat for the dish.
> >
> >I have to disagree with the statement that "...it is the process not
> >the ingredients that is important in any cooking." Both process and
> >ingredients are determinants of finished quality.
> >
> I would say that it is 60% process and 40% ingredients, barring
> ingredients like bird shit, for example.
> You could take the greatest hunk of meat ever and easily ruin it. On
> the other hand, a skilled chef can take freakin' insects and make them
> taste good. (That is, if the person ate the insect before knowing what
> it was.)
>
> candeh

Yes, but only if they were fresh, high quality, free-range, organic insects.


--
Peter Aitken

Remove the crap from my email address before using.

"Vince Poroke" > wrote in message
m...

<Snip>

> Who said anything about cream. You can put cream in it and make a
> mock cabonara. It would be called a smoked new york cheese cake. The
> basic ingredients are their and then you add your twist. That is what
> makes good cooking great. Take what someone else has done and make it
> fit your families pallet. I would not want to eat from a cook that
> doesn't know how to add his own personality to his cooking.

There is a problem here. Simply put there MAY be thousands of people who
believe Carbonara is made with bacon as they have never had or tasted
pancetta. I have no problem with people modifying dishes to suit their
pallet. The problem comes when they think or believe what they have
experienced is the "original or the best or the ONLY way" to make a
particular dish. Hell I thought ever kid had stroganoff every other
Thursday and all cakes were made with Bavarian Cream and had at least 4
layers. At 12 I tasted my first Hostess cupcake. I thought I had died and
gone to heaven. I was simply misinformed.

Do I really care whether someone has bacon or pancetta - nope. I do however
care if people misinform others either actively or passively through their
own ignorance.

I remember a man once at a counter in Chicago who ordered a "corned beef on
white and hold the mayo". He pitched a fit when the waitress yelled "corned
beef on white" to the back. He said but you forget the "no mayo". I will
not repeat what the waitress said to him. Where this person grew up corned
beef and mayo went together. What a world that man had missed.

I feel the same about pancetta. What a world some people are missing.

Oh yes and BTW my step grandfather was from Naples and did in fact tell me
the story of the charcoal makers who were making this classic way before WW
II.


Dimitri

"Dimitri" > wrote in message
om...
> >
> Just to be clear the original recipe has the following:
>
> Pancetta not bacon
> cooked spaghetti
> eggs
> cheese
> Pasta water.
>
> Because the pancetta is cured and not smoked the dish has a very
particular
> flavor.
>
> [pan-CHEH-tuh]
> An Italian bacon that is cured with salt and spices but not smoked.
> Flavorful, slightly salty pancetta comes in a sausagelike roll. It's used
in
> Italian cooking to flavor sauces, pasta dishes, FORCEMEATS, vegetables and
> meats. Pancetta can be tightly wrapped and refrigerated for up to 3 weeks,
> or frozen up to 6 months.
>
> IMHO substituting bacon is not recommendable even if it be artificial
bacon.
>
> Dimitri

OK, 1st off, I'm a semi-lurker. Used to follow this ng daily, then barely,
now about once a week. I "think" I remeber {thought it was Dmitri} Dimitri
from years ago, so I'm not picking on you specifically, but this carbonara
thing has been bugging me for a while. Back in '84 I spent a month in
Italy. What I remember most about the "Carbonara" we had at a
hole-in-the-wall place we stopped at for lunch was an alfredo-type sauce
with a whole lot of coarsely ground black pepper. And one of the tour
guides explaining that the black pepper was the reason it was "CARBONara" -
it looked like what the coal-miners dug up.

Unless it's a dish the coal-miners ate.

In that case, nevermind.

> wrote:
> You could take the greatest hunk of meat ever and easily ruin it. On
>the other hand, a skilled chef can take freakin' insects and make them
>taste good. (That is, if the person ate the insect before knowing what
>it was.)

You ever take a close look at a lobster?

--Blair
"Shrimp?"

On 2003-10-07, Vince Poroke > wrote:

> Mario Batali, whom is very well respected for his knowledge and
> appreciation of traditional Italian cuisine, once said on his show
> that bacon is a fine substitute for panchetta and he went on to say
> that the curing of bacon in America is superior to that of Italy.

I've made carbonara with average American bacon and with pricey
imported pancetta. I prefer bacon, finding pancetta rather boring.
It's all subjective, folks. Use what you like.

OTOH, I did see an intriguing variation on food tv that would favor
milder pancetta over the more pronounced bacon. Some famous Italian
restaurant showing their renown version of a classic carbonara. After
frying the pancetta in olive oil, a little white wine was added and
quickly reduced. This oil/meat/wine reduction was then added to the
egg mixture and poured over the hot pasta. Add parmesan and pasta
water as required. No butter or cream, thank you. Looks like it
would add a subtle flavor dimension without truly corrupting the
classic recipe. I'll try it next time.

nb

"Dimitri" > wrote in message m>...
> "Vince Poroke" > wrote in message
> m...
>
> <Snip>
>
> > Who said anything about cream. You can put cream in it and make a
> > mock cabonara. It would be called a smoked new york cheese cake. The
> > basic ingredients are their and then you add your twist. That is what
> > makes good cooking great. Take what someone else has done and make it
> > fit your families pallet. I would not want to eat from a cook that
> > doesn't know how to add his own personality to his cooking.
>
> There is a problem here. Simply put there MAY be thousands of people who
> believe Carbonara is made with bacon as they have never had or tasted
> pancetta. I have no problem with people modifying dishes to suit their
> pallet. The problem comes when they think or believe what they have
> experienced is the "original or the best or the ONLY way" to make a
> particular dish. Hell I thought ever kid had stroganoff every other
> Thursday and all cakes were made with Bavarian Cream and had at least 4
> layers. At 12 I tasted my first Hostess cupcake. I thought I had died and
> gone to heaven. I was simply misinformed.
>
> Do I really care whether someone has bacon or pancetta - nope. I do however
> care if people misinform others either actively or passively through their
> own ignorance.
>
> I remember a man once at a counter in Chicago who ordered a "corned beef on
> white and hold the mayo". He pitched a fit when the waitress yelled "corned
> beef on white" to the back. He said but you forget the "no mayo". I will
> not repeat what the waitress said to him. Where this person grew up corned
> beef and mayo went together. What a world that man had missed.
>
> I feel the same about pancetta. What a world some people are missing.
>
> Oh yes and BTW my step grandfather was from Naples and did in fact tell me
> the story of the charcoal makers who were making this classic way before WW
> II.
>
>
> Dimitri

I too prefer pancetta in my Cabonara. When I learn a new cooking
technique or "recipe" I try it as I saw and then make my changes.
Lucky you that you grew up in a house that had stroganoff and Bavarian
cream all the time. You mentioning the corned beef with mayo brings
back memory of a date I had several years ago. The girl ordered dry
aged fillet. Mind you I was 18 making 8.00 an hour in a restaurant.
It was the most expensive steak on the menu, I was okay with that
until she ordered it well done. I spit out "what!?". She had never
had a steak rare to medium rare before and I forced her to try it.
That changed her ways. This goes back to your repudiation. You can
add different ingredients to a dish but don't ruin it when you do it,
don't smoke a NY Cheese Cake, in other words.