On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 18:00:52 GMT, Jennifer
wrote:



W.M.McKee wrote:
One thing about so-called diet drinks.... Studies have shown that they
actually make a person hungry, thus causing one to eat and drink more.
One theory is that the sweetness triggers insulin release, which in
turn, provokes feelings of hunger.... At least this would be the case
in a T2, where the problem is "insulin resistance."

Will

Will...

I've only heard anecdotal stories about artificial sweeteners causing
cravings.

Do you remember any of the studies you're talking about?

Jennifer

Hi Jennifer,

After a little thought, I have recalled where I first came up with
this idea...

A few years ago, a book came out by Dr. Richard F. Heller, M.S, Ph.D.,
and Dr. Rachel Heller, M.A., M.Ph., Ph.D., called "The Carbohydrate
Addict's Lifespan Program", Penguin, 1997. In that abook, they
extensively discuss insulin release triggers and the mechanisms that
drive hunger (Ch. 3). In support of their work, they offer their own
research at Mount Sinai School of Medicine, in New York City, and in
the Department of Biomedical Sciences at the Fraduate School of the
City University of New York. Additionally, in support of their work,
they cite a bibliography of approximately 23 pages, containing cites
to over 280 reported studies and publications. The URL to their
website is http://www.carbohydrateaddicts.com

Since the time of the publication of "Carbohydrate Addict's Lifespan
Program", much more research has been done in this area, touching
upon related things, such as the "Glucose Revolution", by Jennie
Brand-Miller, Thomas M.S. Wolever, Kaye Foster-Powell, and Stephen
Colaagiuri. The most recent edition of that work came out in 2003.
While "Glucose Revolution" does not specifically discuss insulin
triggers and cravings, when I read it together with the work of the
Kellers, it makes sense that cravings can be driven just as much by
artificial sweeteners, as by things that contain carbs which can be
readily converted to glucose.

This connection seems borne out by recent findings that report a
linkage of artificial sweeteners to cravings related to insulin
release, and consequent excessive eating. I have seen these articles
all over the place lately, such as in the science and health news of
Yahoo, the ADA newsletter I get via email, etc. I did a quick search a
little while ago, and I came across an interesting write-up at
http://www.commonvoice.com/article.asp?colid=3041

As I said in my last reply to you, I have tried avoiding all
sweeteners, including artificial sweeteners, and to the extent that I
have done so, I have noticed a remarkable decrease in appetite. As
part of a comprehensive strategy, that knowledge has given me an edge
that has allowed me to lose approximately 55 lbs. in 2005.


I hope the foregoing is helpful.

Very truly yours,

Will, T2

In Harrisburg Pa?
Centeral Pa


"Jennifer" wrote in message
ink.net...
Why don't you join us at alt.support.diabetes?

You can ask questions and get support.

Jennifer


Rich wrote:

I not too sure I am new at this. I thought Diet was better then the
good
stuff. I cut out all the raw sugars.
In the first year I keep things down. Now my Dr has add more meds.
Lipator,
Blood Pressure, two medaforman, Vitamins and a aspirin.

Things were better before all the meds

Rich it's a newsgroup like this one.

You join it the same way you joined here.

Jennifer


Rich wrote:

In Harrisburg Pa?
Centeral Pa


"Jennifer" wrote in message
ink.net...

Why don't you join us at alt.support.diabetes?

You can ask questions and get support.

Jennifer


Rich wrote:


I not too sure I am new at this. I thought Diet was better then the

good

stuff. I cut out all the raw sugars.
In the first year I keep things down. Now my Dr has add more meds.

Lipator,

Blood Pressure, two medaforman, Vitamins and a aspirin.

Things were better before all the meds

Got It

"Rich" wrote in message
news
It must have been the pretzels, we were playing a board game and I had a
lot. I was told there not that bad.
two slices of bred in a sandwich.
And four glass of diet Pepsi.

Pretzels are not that bad? They're almost pure carbs and low fat. Newman's
Own makes a high protein pretzel that I can eat for a snack, but even with
those I have to watch my portion size. If you had two slices of bread and
the pretzels, that's carb overload! Two slices of bread can have a lot of
carbs! Of course, it all depends on the type of bread and size of the
slices.
--
See my webpage:
http://mysite.verizon.net/juliebove/index.htm

"W.M.McKee" wrote in message
...

Hi Jennifer,

After a little thought, I have recalled where I first came up with
this idea...

A few years ago, a book came out by Dr. Richard F. Heller, M.S, Ph.D.,
and Dr. Rachel Heller, M.A., M.Ph., Ph.D., called "The Carbohydrate
Addict's Lifespan Program", Penguin, 1997. In that abook, they
extensively discuss insulin release triggers and the mechanisms that
drive hunger (Ch. 3). In support of their work, they offer their own
research at Mount Sinai School of Medicine, in New York City, and in
the Department of Biomedical Sciences at the Fraduate School of the
City University of New York. Additionally, in support of their work,
they cite a bibliography of approximately 23 pages, containing cites
to over 280 reported studies and publications. The URL to their
website is http://www.carbohydrateaddicts.com

I hope you realize that these two Drs. are not medical Drs. at all. However
they are depicted as Drs. on the cover of that book. I bought the book and
remember seeing their pictures on the cover. That book didn't help me at
all because apparently I am not a carbohydrate addict. At least not
according to their test in the book. Not even close.

Since the time of the publication of "Carbohydrate Addict's Lifespan
Program", much more research has been done in this area, touching
upon related things, such as the "Glucose Revolution", by Jennie
Brand-Miller, Thomas M.S. Wolever, Kaye Foster-Powell, and Stephen
Colaagiuri. The most recent edition of that work came out in 2003.
While "Glucose Revolution" does not specifically discuss insulin
triggers and cravings, when I read it together with the work of the
Kellers, it makes sense that cravings can be driven just as much by
artificial sweeteners, as by things that contain carbs which can be
readily converted to glucose.

I don't believe this. I rarely ever get cravings and I usually have no
appetite. Usually the only times I get hungry are if I skip a meal or have
my meal late. But not always! Of late, I've been skipping lunch a lot and
not feeling hungry at all. I eat a small breakfast too. Usually just
cottage cheese. Sometimes I add not quite 1/2 a grapefruit. I've been
drinking diet sodas since they first came out with them!

This connection seems borne out by recent findings that report a
linkage of artificial sweeteners to cravings related to insulin
release, and consequent excessive eating. I have seen these articles
all over the place lately, such as in the science and health news of
Yahoo, the ADA newsletter I get via email, etc. I did a quick search a
little while ago, and I came across an interesting write-up at
http://www.commonvoice.com/article.asp?colid=3041

Well, maybe I'm the odd one out, but I certainly don't do excessive eating.
Now this wasn't always so. When I was a kid, I ate and ate. I was also
extremely underweight. It was to the point where people made nasty comments
about me/to me, everywhere I went. I can remember trying to eat to the
point of being stuffed in an attempt to gain weight. It didn't help. I
think I must have had a very high metabolism at that point in time. While I
didn't always eat until I was stuffed (I hated that feeling), I would
usually get hungry before it was time for the next meal.

As I said in my last reply to you, I have tried avoiding all
sweeteners, including artificial sweeteners, and to the extent that I
have done so, I have noticed a remarkable decrease in appetite. As
part of a comprehensive strategy, that knowledge has given me an edge
that has allowed me to lose approximately 55 lbs. in 2005.

If I had a decrease in appetite, I'd be in big trouble! My metabolism has
seemed to have done a complete flip-flop and now it's next to impossible for
me to lose weight. In fact I find that in order for me to lose weight, I
must eat more food than I am currently eating. This is very hard for me to
do for any length of time. I often find myself forcing myself to eat
because nothing sounds appealing.

snip

--
See my webpage:
http://mysite.verizon.net/juliebove/index.htm

"Rich" wrote in message
...
I not too sure I am new at this. I thought Diet was better then the good
stuff. I cut out all the raw sugars.
In the first year I keep things down. Now my Dr has add more meds.
Lipator,
Blood Pressure, two medaforman, Vitamins and a aspirin.

Things were better before all the meds

Sugar has nothing to do with it! It is carbs that raise our BG (blood
glucose). Yes, sugar *is* a carb but it's no worse for us in terms of BG
than bread or pretzels. As you've now seen.

Yes, diet soda is better for your than regular soda. Regular soda is loaded
in carbs and if you're diabetic you shouldn't have it. Unless of course you
have a hypo and need to raise your BG quickly.

--
See my webpage:
http://mysite.verizon.net/juliebove/index.htm

Hi Julie,

Yes, I do realize they are not M.D.'s, but have their Ph.D.'s in related
fields. I think they have backgrounds in nutrition .... I found their book
to be packed with information that has helped me a lot. I can understand,
however, that not everything in it is for everyone.

The chapter on insulin release triggers, coupled with some of Dr. Atkins's
ideas, really did help me get a handle on my appetite. Most recently, with
all the new publicity about artificial sweeteners, I thought it worth
sharing with the group.

Finally, it occurs to me that if artificial sweeteners do trigger insulin
release, thereby causing cravings and hunger, they also could have something
to do with inflammations and arthritis pain, since an overabundance of
insulin has been shown to cause problems with various sorts of
inflammations. That is one reason why the a1c tests, the c-reactive protein
tests, and the homocystine tests are such a big deal for us t2 diabetics. A
lot of people I know who have arthritis and inflammation pain are the same
ones who swill diet drinks, most of which by the way, contain aspertame. One
of my early problems as a diabetic was that I had crippling inflammations in
my feet and right shoulder. Now, I have a little neuropathy in the right
foot and some limitation of movement in the right shoulder, but the pain
has mostly gone.

Anyway, thanks for your response, Julie.... I really do find myself looking
forward to reading your posts! Remember, I offer the things I put out only
for what they may be worth... Not everything is relevant to everyone, but if
even one person benefits from something either of us contributes, then it
will have been worthwhile.

Have a great evening,

Will, T2

Hi Rich, Julie is right... sugar is carbs, by definiton. For other reasons,
related to hunger pangs, I choose to avoid artificial sweeteners, as well
You might also wish to be mindful of the potential problems with aspertame
which is contained in many, if not most, diet drinks.

Julie is among those regarded as very knowledgeable about these matters in
our group, and I urge you to listen to her advice. Also, you will find many
others to be especially helpful. Among them are Quentin, Kate, Jennifer,
AlanS, Loretta, and many others whom you will surely recognize more and
more, as you read their contributions. And, remember, for the most part, we
are in the same boat as you. We are diabetics who are simply trying to
puzzle out this disease and maybe help others similarly situated, in the
process.

Will, T2

"Rich" wrote in message
news
It is the second year if my condition, and I had two drinks last night.
Rum
boy did it kick my numbers up this morring. 244 I took a second pill
this
morring I hope to be down by Supper.



I will bet you that it wasn't the rum that kicked up your numbers, it was
what you put with it.

Straight booze mixed with water or diet soda shouldn't have that effect on
you.

--

Best Regards,

Evelyn
(to reply to me personally, remove 'sox')