Coffee (rec.drink.coffee) Discussing coffee. This includes selection of brands, methods of making coffee, etc. Discussion about coffee in other forms (e.g. desserts) is acceptable.

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Old 25-06-2007, 08:28 PM posted to rec.food.drink.coffee,alt.coffee,alt.tea,rec.food.drink.tea
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Default Water temperature question

Here in the USA, due to occupational health and safety concerns,
almost all the cafe establishments operate with the restriction
of NO BOILING WATER!. As a consequence they are unable to brew
a decent pot of black tea!.
Now most of these places have espresso machines with milk steaming
attachments. So here's my question.
What is the temperature of the fluid (air/steam) which comes out
of the steaming heads? Is it above the boiling point of water?
and so, IF I ASKED NICELY, could be used by the barrista to heat
the water in the teapot to boiling, and so fit to brew a decent
pot of tea.
Asking them to nuke a pot doesn't work because:
- the pots usually have at least some metal fittings
- water in a mug often super heats, and explodes when
the cup is first disturbed.
--
Rostyk

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Old 25-06-2007, 09:04 PM posted to rec.food.drink.coffee,alt.coffee,alt.tea,rec.food.drink.tea
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Default Water temperature question

Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj wrote:
Here in the USA, due to occupational health and safety concerns,
almost all the cafe establishments operate with the restriction
of NO BOILING WATER!. As a consequence they are unable to brew
a decent pot of black tea!.
Now most of these places have espresso machines with milk steaming
attachments. So here's my question.
What is the temperature of the fluid (air/steam) which comes out
of the steaming heads? Is it above the boiling point of water?
and so, IF I ASKED NICELY, could be used by the barrista to heat
the water in the teapot to boiling, and so fit to brew a decent
pot of tea.
Asking them to nuke a pot doesn't work because:
- the pots usually have at least some metal fittings
- water in a mug often super heats, and explodes when
the cup is first disturbed.


Luckily, over here we have no such problem, in fact the opposite - I
keep cracking cups as they are often cold (in the trailer) when the
boiling water hits them.

You can steam hot water to boiling in a few seconds, so yes, I'd ask
the barista to do that before adding the tea.

--
Regards, Danny

http://www.gaggia-espresso.com (a purely hobby site)
(apparently bad grammar but I like it that way...)

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Old 25-06-2007, 09:05 PM posted to rec.food.drink.coffee,alt.coffee,alt.tea,rec.food.drink.tea
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Default Water temperature question

"Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj" writes:

Here in the USA, due to occupational health and safety concerns,
almost all the cafe establishments operate with the restriction
of NO BOILING WATER!.


Can this be true? I can think of lots of things that go on in a
restaurant that would be impossible without boiling water.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html
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Old 25-06-2007, 10:58 PM posted to rec.food.drink.coffee,alt.coffee,alt.tea,rec.food.drink.tea
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Default Water temperature question

Finding the keyboard operational
Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj entered:

Here in the USA, due to occupational health and safety concerns,
almost all the cafe establishments operate with the restriction
of NO BOILING WATER!. As a consequence they are unable to brew
a decent pot of black tea!.
Now most of these places have espresso machines with milk steaming
attachments. So here's my question.
What is the temperature of the fluid (air/steam) which comes out
of the steaming heads? Is it above the boiling point of water?
and so, IF I ASKED NICELY, could be used by the barrista to heat
the water in the teapot to boiling, and so fit to brew a decent
pot of tea.
Asking them to nuke a pot doesn't work because:
- the pots usually have at least some metal fittings
- water in a mug often super heats, and explodes when
the cup is first disturbed.


Never heard of such restriction. Is it just your local place? I can't
imagine "no boiling water" ever being legislated for a food establishment.
Bob


--
--
Coffee worth staying up for - NY Times
www.moondoggiecoffee.com

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Old 26-06-2007, 03:20 AM posted to rec.food.drink.coffee,alt.coffee,alt.tea,rec.food.drink.tea
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Default Water temperature question

Never heard of such restriction. Is it just your local place? I can't
imagine "no boiling water" ever being legislated for a food establishment.
Bob


I don't know if it's legalized or not, but I currently work at such a
cafe (still in college, was a part time job this last semester, still
there for the summer months) and the espresso machine and drip coffee
maker we have don't bring the water to a boil. Boiling the water in a
pitcher using a steam nozzle is possible, but slightly difficult, as
the water tends to rapidly expand out the top of the pitcher in all
directions. So your barrista may not be open to such an idea, as it's
remarkably easy to burn oneself.







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Old 26-06-2007, 03:58 AM posted to rec.food.drink.coffee,alt.coffee,alt.tea,rec.food.drink.tea
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Default Water temperature question

TeaDave wrote:

I don't know if it's legalized or not, but I currently work at such a
cafe (still in college, was a part time job this last semester, still
there for the summer months) and the espresso machine and drip coffee
maker we have don't bring the water to a boil. Boiling the water in a
pitcher using a steam nozzle is possible, but slightly difficult, as
the water tends to rapidly expand out the top of the pitcher in all
directions. So your barrista may not be open to such an idea, as it's
remarkably easy to burn oneself.


I doubt that many espresso machines can operate without boiling the
water unless it's a twin boiler with the brew boiler below boiling, or
the more usual system of mixing cold water with the boiler water
before the dispenser. Could explain a lot of bad espresso though.


--
Regards, Danny

http://www.gaggia-espresso.com (a purely hobby site)
(apparently bad grammar but I like it that way...)

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Old 26-06-2007, 12:39 PM posted to rec.food.drink.coffee,alt.coffee,alt.tea,rec.food.drink.tea
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Default Water temperature question

the espresso machine and drip coffee
maker we have don't bring the water to a boil.


Might be against the local laws, but definitely impossible under the laws of
thermodynamics, which are far more rigorous than any local ordinance.


--
Alan


www.coffeeco.com.au


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Old 26-06-2007, 01:44 PM posted to rec.food.drink.coffee,alt.coffee,alt.tea,rec.food.drink.tea
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Default Water temperature question

Nothing boils water faster than steam. The supersaturated steam packs
more calories and if released under pressure can be hotter than
boiling. I think the problem might be the fit. It is designed for
cups not pots at least that is what I discovered with my home expresso
which was a gift. Even at that boil the water in the cup and pour
into the pot but I guess that is the ordinance. Someone recently
suggested using a silicon tube hooked up to their pressure cooker
which I know would solve my expresso clearance problem. I'd run the
tube from the jet to the pot sitting beside. I'm sure the dishwasher
is still at boiling. I assume you are talking about serving. I sleep
better at night knowing a waiter can only scald me with less than
boiling water. Just so long as they don't pass laws against flaming
fajitas.

Jim

PS I switched to a 1500w electric pot. It makes water holy real
fast.

Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj wrote:
Here in the USA, due to occupational health and safety concerns,
almost all the cafe establishments operate with the restriction
of NO BOILING WATER!. As a consequence they are unable to brew
a decent pot of black tea!.
Now most of these places have espresso machines with milk steaming
attachments. So here's my question.
What is the temperature of the fluid (air/steam) which comes out
of the steaming heads? Is it above the boiling point of water?
and so, IF I ASKED NICELY, could be used by the barrista to heat
the water in the teapot to boiling, and so fit to brew a decent
pot of tea.
Asking them to nuke a pot doesn't work because:
- the pots usually have at least some metal fittings
- water in a mug often super heats, and explodes when
the cup is first disturbed.
--
Rostyk


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Old 26-06-2007, 04:58 PM posted to rec.food.drink.coffee,alt.coffee,alt.tea,rec.food.drink.tea
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Default Water temperature question

Space Cowboy wrote:
-snip-
PS I switched to a 1500w electric pot. It makes water holy real
fast.


Pah, that's nothing. Considering you Merkins have everything bigger
and better than us Brits, at least we have proper manly kettles (and
proper electric) which have 3kw at 230v to heat the water *real*
quick. Even my espresso machine has 4500w/230v to help it's 16 litre
boiler do it's stuff


--
Regards, Danny

http://www.gaggia-espresso.com (a purely hobby site)
(apparently bad grammar but I like it that way...)

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Old 26-06-2007, 09:34 PM posted to rec.food.drink.coffee,alt.coffee,alt.tea,rec.food.drink.tea
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Default Water temperature question

TeaDave wrote:
Never heard of such restriction. Is it just your local place? I can't
imagine "no boiling water" ever being legislated for a food establishment.
Bob


I don't know if it's legalized or not, but I currently work at such a
cafe (still in college, was a part time job this last semester, still
there for the summer months) and the espresso machine and drip coffee
maker we have don't bring the water to a boil. Boiling the water in a
pitcher using a steam nozzle is possible, but slightly difficult, as
the water tends to rapidly expand out the top of the pitcher in all
directions. So your barrista may not be open to such an idea, as it's
remarkably easy to burn oneself.

Thanks. I was hoping that it would be comparable, i.e. no more dangerous
than frothing milk. i.e. Fill the Bodum with the _hot_ water provided
for making tea, steam that to a boil, and then put in the brewing cup
with its tea and plunger.
Well it looks like I'll have to stick to green teas at the cafe
in the local Barnes and Noble or Borders book stores.

Even in restaurants getting tea brewed with boiling water is almost
impossible around here. , and they usually have only the dinky
one cup capacity pots and no choice in teas.
--
Rostyk


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Old 27-06-2007, 12:08 AM posted to rec.food.drink.coffee,alt.coffee,alt.tea,rec.food.drink.tea
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Default Water temperature question

Am 26 Jun 2007, Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj schrieb:


Thanks. I was hoping that it would be comparable, i.e. no more
dangerous than frothing milk. i.e. Fill the Bodum with the _hot_ water
provided for making tea, steam that to a boil, and then put in the
brewing cup with its tea and plunger. Well it looks like I'll have to
stick to green teas at the cafe in the local Barnes and Noble or
Borders book stores.


Considering the quality of the tea you would get, this is no great
loss. Of course, the green tea is never very good, either.


--

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Old 27-06-2007, 12:23 AM posted to rec.food.drink.coffee,alt.coffee,alt.tea,rec.food.drink.tea
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Default Water temperature question

A certain lawsuit arising from a McDonald's coffee spill is coming to
mind. You can, in part, thank stupid people like that for the
hesitance to allow piping hot water.

I assume this regulation doesn't apply to restaurants... no boiling
water would screw up a lot of recipes, I imagine.

-Brent

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Old 27-06-2007, 01:15 AM posted to rec.food.drink.coffee,alt.coffee,alt.tea,rec.food.drink.tea
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Default Water temperature question

On 2007-06-26 18:23:34 -0500, Brent said:

I assume this regulation doesn't apply to restaurants... no boiling
water would screw up a lot of recipes, I imagine.


There is also the issue of sanitation if one does not use boiling water.
--
Aaron Hsu

"No one could make a greater mistake than he who did nothing because he
could do only a little." - Edmund Burke

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Old 27-06-2007, 08:56 AM posted to rec.food.drink.coffee,alt.coffee,alt.tea,rec.food.drink.tea
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Default Water temperature question

It's not true.

"Lewis Perin" wrote in message
news
"Rostyslaw J. Lewyckyj" writes:

Here in the USA, due to occupational health and safety concerns,
almost all the cafe establishments operate with the restriction
of NO BOILING WATER!.


Can this be true? I can think of lots of things that go on in a
restaurant that would be impossible without boiling water.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html



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Old 27-06-2007, 02:31 PM posted to rec.food.drink.coffee,alt.coffee,alt.tea,rec.food.drink.tea
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Default Water temperature question

I'd like to see either in action. I'll never use the range anymore.

Jim

PS Don't use steel bottom kettles with an aluminum rim on ceramic
tops. The differential will mar the surface. I learned the hard way.

Danny wrote:
Space Cowboy wrote:
-snip-
PS I switched to a 1500w electric pot. It makes water holy real
fast.


Pah, that's nothing. Considering you Merkins have everything bigger
and better than us Brits, at least we have proper manly kettles (and
proper electric) which have 3kw at 230v to heat the water *real*
quick. Even my espresso machine has 4500w/230v to help it's 16 litre
boiler do it's stuff


--
Regards, Danny

http://www.gaggia-espresso.com (a purely hobby site)
(apparently bad grammar but I like it that way...)




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