Would 80C be about right?

"The temperature of the hot water is another factor that will
determine the tea's taste. This is dependent on the season, and small
adjustments are made to accomodate changes in weather". It goes on to
say boiling water in winter, in spring add cool water to boiling
kettle before pouring to reduce temperature slightly. It looks like
boil or hot,hot,hot to me.

The Tea Ceremony,Sen'O Tanaka,Sendo Tanaka,Dai Nihon Chado
Gakkai,Kodansha International Ltd,Printed in Japan,1973 first edition,
1998 second edition,ISBN 4-7700-2507-6,p136.

PS Excellent reference book on the Japanese Tea Ceremony. My only
critique no Kana to go with the Romanji. You won't see a thermometer
at a tea ceremony. All typos mine.

Jim

Evojeesus wrote:
> Would 80C be about right?

On May 31, 9:41 am, Evojeesus > wrote:
> Would 80C be about right?

According to trusted (by me) sources o-cha.com and matchasource.com,
80C is about right.
http://www.o-cha.com/brewing-matcha.htm
http://www.matchasource.com/brewing-matcha-tea-s/13.htm
I can tell when I've used too-hot water because the bitterness is
really apparent, particularly with thin grade tea.

On May 31, 6:41 am, Evojeesus > wrote:
> Would 80C be about right?

I take part in Tea Ceremony, and, btw, here in the states, we do often
use a thermometer since the pouring and whisking are done away from
guests, but it is practice and intuition that usually tells us when
to pour.
80C is temperature we use in this lineage. There is debate regarding
the whisking techniques and many lineages use different whisk methods.
A very fast whisking is forgiving if the water is a little too hot.
If this is for ceremony and not for personal drinking, the ceremonial
rules are pretty restictive. We never use boiling or very hot water.
That is considered abusive to the sacred tea. Perhaps, in Japan the
lineages have more tolerance for hot water.
In my school, the tea is considered "holy" and cannot be disturbed
with very hot water.
Hope this helps.
Shen

On Jun 2, 8:26 am, Shen > wrote:
> On May 31, 6:41 am, Evojeesus > wrote:
>
> > Would 80C be about right?
>
> I take part in Tea Ceremony, and, btw, here in the states, we do often
> use a thermometer since the pouring and whisking are done away from
> guests, but it is practice and intuition that usually tells us when
> to pour.
> 80C is temperature we use in this lineage. There is debate regarding
> the whisking techniques and many lineages use different whisk methods.
> A very fast whisking is forgiving if the water is a little too hot.
> If this is for ceremony and not for personal drinking, the ceremonial
> rules are pretty restictive. We never use boiling or very hot water.
> That is considered abusive to the sacred tea. Perhaps, in Japan the
> lineages have more tolerance for hot water.
> In my school, the tea is considered "holy" and cannot be disturbed
> with very hot water.
> Hope this helps.
> Shen

I believe even in Japan nobody would use hot water -- isn't it an
integral part of the ceremony to add a splash of cold water to the pot
before taking hot water out for whisking? If nothing else, that would
instantly lower temperature by a few degrees, no? I've only ever sat
in on one such ceremony, so I'm by no means an expert, but I think
boiling water is, indeed, never used...

I also wonder -- I've had matcha in a temple that was served cold. My
guess is they used cold (spring) water to make it, because it was
cooler than the hot summer day when I drank it. It was very
refreshing and rather nice.

MarshalN
http://www.xanga.com/MarshalN

On Jun 3, 4:56 am, MarshalN > wrote:
> I also wonder -- I've had matcha in a temple that was served cold. My
> guess is they used cold (spring) water to make it, because it was
> cooler than the hot summer day when I drank it. It was very
> refreshing and rather nice.

I just tried making my standard morning matcha with cold water and I
agree wholeheartedly with "refreshing and rather nice." It was harder
to get to a full froth, but that seems to be the only difference. I
think it's the perfect drink for outdoors in hot weather.

On Jun 3, 4:56 am, MarshalN > wrote:

> I also wonder -- I've had matcha in a temple that was served cold. My
> guess is they used cold (spring) water to make it, because it was
> cooler than the hot summer day when I drank it. It was very
> refreshing and rather nice.

No this is indeed quite interesting, I will have to try this tonight.
Was the water ice cold, or just room temp?

I am always on the lookout for good cool summer tea drinks. I live in
the south, down here they smother their iced tea with sugar, as a
rule. I have grown to appreciate "Southern" iced tea if you leave out
the sugar and add a healthy sprig of spearmint.

Mike
http://www.pu-erh.net

On Jun 4, 12:51 pm, Mike Petro > wrote:
> On Jun 3, 4:56 am, MarshalN > wrote:
>
> > I also wonder -- I've had matcha in a temple that was served cold. My
> > guess is they used cold (spring) water to make it, because it was
> > cooler than the hot summer day when I drank it. It was very
> > refreshing and rather nice.
>
> No this is indeed quite interesting, I will have to try this tonight.
> Was the water ice cold, or just room temp?
>
> I am always on the lookout for good cool summer tea drinks. I live in
> the south, down here they smother their iced tea with sugar, as a
> rule. I have grown to appreciate "Southern" iced tea if you leave out
> the sugar and add a healthy sprig of spearmint.
>
> Mikehttp://www.pu-erh.net

I have been trying this for a couple of days now and it is really a
great summer drink. Contemplative whisking is a nice plus. As to the
temperature, if the water is ice cold (out of the fridge) I find I
don't get any bubbles at all, and the taste is kind of undercut by the
shock of the coldness. I much prefer room temp.

Don't suppose anyone's tried iced pu'er?

Alex > writes:

> On Jun 4, 12:51 pm, Mike Petro > wrote:
> > On Jun 3, 4:56 am, MarshalN > wrote:
> >
> > > I also wonder -- I've had matcha in a temple that was served cold. My
> > > guess is they used cold (spring) water to make it, because it was
> > > cooler than the hot summer day when I drank it. It was very
> > > refreshing and rather nice.
> [...]
> I have been trying this for a couple of days now and it is really a
> great summer drink. Contemplative whisking is a nice plus. As to the
> temperature, if the water is ice cold (out of the fridge) I find I
> don't get any bubbles at all, and the taste is kind of undercut by the
> shock of the coldness. I much prefer room temp.

Even aside from the shock of coldness, I think at room temperature
there's simply more taste to be had.

> Don't suppose anyone's tried iced pu'er?

They used to serve it at the late, lamented Wild Lily Tea Market in
the East Village in New York. I didn't like it, but it wasn't a "pure
play" of iced Pu'er: there was ginger if I remember correctly.
Thinking about it now, I wonder if it was decent Pu'er, too.

/Lew
---
Lew Perin /
http://www.panix.com/~perin/babelcarp.html