Alcohol shrinks brain & no stroke benefits

An interesting study found that low to moderate drinking may cause a loss of
brain tissue in middle-age people. The researchers also found that such
alcohol consumption does not lower the risk of a stroke, contradicting
findings from previous studies:

http://go.jitbot.com/wife-overhit

So much for my daily glass of wine. :-(

-- Sydney

"Sydney" >
>
> Alcohol shrinks brain & no stroke benefits
>
> So much for my daily glass of wine. :-(
>
Wait. "They" say.
Me, myself and I say: No, it does not shrink my brain.
And even in the case it would: forget about it.
Life is life and worth to live with a good amount of spirits.
In my mind and in my brain.
Cheers.
Ri

On Sat, 6 Dec 2003 02:14:16 -0500, "Sydney" >
wrote:

>Alcohol shrinks brain & no stroke benefits
>
>An interesting study found that low to moderate drinking may cause a loss of
>brain tissue in middle-age people. The researchers also found that such
>alcohol consumption does not lower the risk of a stroke, contradicting
>findings from previous studies:
>
>http://go.jitbot.com/wife-overhit
>
>So much for my daily glass of wine. :-(
>
>-- Sydney
>
" Ding said researchers cannot make a definitive cause-and-effect link
between drinking and brain atrophy because the MRIs were done only
once during the study and because they found only a small reduction in
tissue."


Clink!

I guess it depends on who's study you believe. I read one the said an aspirin a day helps prevent or control heart disease and stroke. I read another that says alcohol in moderation ( 1 to 2 drinks) intensifies the effect of aspirin by as much as 10 times. So I guess one could say if you take an aspirin a day and have one or two small glasses of wine in the evening you are ten times less likely to have a stroke or heart attack than someone who only takes the aspirin. Hmmmm then again you are increasing the chance of internal bleeding by ten times so if that bleeding occurs in the brain maybe it's not such a good idea. Damn I have to go back and see if I can't find a study more to my liking. :-)



--
http://www.romahawk.com

http://www.romahawk.com

Posted via MooTalk
http://mootalk.com

Romahawk > wrote in message
om...
> I guess it depends on who's study you believe. I read one the said an
aspirin a day helps prevent or control heart disease and stroke. I read
another that says alcohol in moderation ( 1 to 2 drinks) intensifies the
effect of aspirin by as much as 10 times. So I guess one could say if you
take an aspirin a day and have one or two small glasses of wine in the
evening you are ten times less likely to have a stroke or heart attack than
someone who only takes the aspirin. Hmmmm then again you are increasing the
chance of internal bleeding by ten times so if that bleeding occurs in the
brain maybe it's not such a good idea. Damn I have to go back and see if I
can't find a study more to my liking. :-)

I would have liked to write a meaningful reply to this thread, but as my
brain is now approximately the size of a pea, I can't!

Jo


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.537 / Virus Database: 332 - Release Date: 06/11/03

Something that is interesting about the science and medical field
especially in the academic departments is the publish or perish clause.
Many things that are published is just to "save their job" and are
really useless. Any study that been done with such few MRI tests is
purly usless,there are not enough data points to make any claim. Enjoy
your brews is my view.\\
>
>>Alcohol shrinks brain & no stroke benefits
>>
>>An interesting study found that low to moderate drinking may cause a
>>loss of brain tissue in middle-age people. The researchers also found
>>that such alcohol consumption does not lower the risk of a stroke,
>>contradicting findings from previous studies:
>>
>>http://go.jitbot.com/wife-overhit
>>
>>So much for my daily glass of wine. :-(
>>
>>-- Sydney
>>
> " Ding said researchers cannot make a definitive cause-and-effect link
> between drinking and brain atrophy because the MRIs were done only
> once during the study and because they found only a small reduction in
> tissue."
>
>
> Clink!
>

"Sydney" > wrote in message >...
> Alcohol shrinks brain & no stroke benefits
>
> An interesting study found that low to moderate drinking may cause a loss of
> brain tissue in middle-age people. The researchers also found that such
> alcohol consumption does not lower the risk of a stroke, contradicting
> findings from previous studies:
>
> http://go.jitbot.com/wife-overhit
>
> So much for my daily glass of wine. :-(
>
> -- Sydney

>An interesting study found that low to moderate drinking may cause a
loss of
> brain tissue in middle-age people.

Since they didn't address moderate to heavy consumption, I guess I'll
pick up the pace a bit.

Well, you know how "THEY" also used to say you only use 10% of your
brain, anyway? I always figured (hoped?) that the brain cells I was
killing by drinking were the ones I wasn't using anyway, so my percent
is actually INCREASING as the years progress, since I'm killing off all
those free-loading brain cells.

On 12/6/03 3:08 PM, in article
2, "Tommy"
> wrote:

> Something that is interesting about the science and medical field
> especially in the academic departments is the publish or perish clause.
> Many things that are published is just to "save their job" and are
> really useless. Any study that been done with such few MRI tests is
> purly usless,there are not enough data points to make any claim. Enjoy
> your brews is my view.

I find this statement to be a bit ignorant and uninformed. Publish or Perish
does not necessarily mean that many published science articles are junk.
Legitimate scientific journals require usually three or more independent
reviewers to evaluate the validity and importance of the work before it is
published. The higher profile journals tend to be even more stringent in
these requirements. To say the science is useless, especially without
reading the paper yourself, is unfair. Most "useless" science is weeded out
in the review process and never sees the light of ink.

Please note that the AUTHORS of the paper did not claim there was a direct
causal relationship. They simply presented their data for the community. It
seems to me it is the news media that has splashed these headlines around.
And, it was not a "few MRI tests" that are the basis of this paper. They had
almost 2000 MRI's which is pretty significant statistically. The fact that
they only had one MRI per patient, and no information on progression over
time, led them to appropriately not make a causal claim. They only claim
that there is a positive association of alcohol intake and brain atrophy.
This does not imply cause, just that they found them together.

If you are interested, here is a link to the abstract for this manuscript:

http://stroke.ahajournals.org/cgi/co...105929.88691.8
Ev1?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&autho r1=Ding&searchid=107076089
9112_2443&stored_search=&FIRSTINDEX=0&search_url=h ttp%3A%2F%2Fstroke.ahajour
nals.org%2Fcgi%2Fsearch&journalcode=strokeaha

I don't mean to pick on you or anything, but as an academic scientist, I
felt compelled to respond to your statements and try to provide some
balance.

--
Greg Cook
http://homepage.mac.com/gregcook/Wine

(remove spamblocker from my email)

> wrote in message
news
> On Sat, 6 Dec 2003 02:14:16 -0500, "Sydney" >
> wrote:
>
> >Alcohol shrinks brain & no stroke benefits
> >
> >An interesting study found that low to moderate drinking may cause a loss
of
> >brain tissue in middle-age people. The researchers also found that such
> >alcohol consumption does not lower the risk of a stroke, contradicting
> >findings from previous studies:
> >
> >http://go.jitbot.com/wife-overhit
> >
> >So much for my daily glass of wine. :-(
> >
> >-- Sydney
> >
> " Ding said researchers cannot make a definitive cause-and-effect link
> between drinking and brain atrophy because the MRIs were done only
> once during the study and because they found only a small reduction in
> tissue."
>
>
> Clink!
>
Also, don't forget the study relied on self-reporting about alcohol
consumption. That's a huge limitation considering how likely it is heavy
drinkers lie and understate their consumption. And obviously, no causal link
was made. So, was drinking the cause or result? What other confounding
factors are there?

I wouldn't toss the study for these reasons. Like most research it provides
a clue, a piece to the puzzle. With enough studies on a subject a clear idea
usually begins to develop, but it takes time.

Hear Hear! I like to consider it strategic pruning :-)

Richard

wrote in message t>...
> Well, you know how "THEY" also used to say you only use 10% of your
> brain, anyway? I always figured (hoped?) that the brain cells I was
> killing by drinking were the ones I wasn't using anyway, so my percent
> is actually INCREASING as the years progress, since I'm killing off all
> those free-loading brain cells.

Marijuana is said to do the same thing.

It's commonly accepted that stimulating the brain with cognitive tasks
helps build neural pathways that increase brain mass. The reverse is
also true; living a sedentary existence and not stimulating the brain
results in a lack of neural development. This is why the elderly are
encouraged to do crossword puzzles and other "thinking" tasks; it
helps keep their mind sharp.

Alcohol and marijuana both have a relaxing effect. Alcohol's a
stimulant prior to being a depressant. Most who partake in these
drugs don't do so with the intent of tackling brain-stimulating tasks.
These are usually "social" drugs, although some people use them as a
sedative and their brains are not exercised when "under the
influence."

So, in this study, is the loss of brain tissue a result of alcohol
consumption or is it a combination of other things? Perhaps each
person's lifestyle in tandem with alcohol consumption contributed to
the loss of brain tissue.

Interesting topic… where is the study published?

-Paul

"Sydney" > wrote in message >...
> Alcohol shrinks brain & no stroke benefits
>
> An interesting study found that low to moderate drinking may cause a loss of
> brain tissue in middle-age people. The researchers also found that such
> alcohol consumption does not lower the risk of a stroke, contradicting
> findings from previous studies:
>
> http://go.jitbot.com/wife-overhit
>
> So much for my daily glass of wine. :-(
>
> -- Sydney

It's quite possible you really aren't using the brain cells you're
killing, as you stated. I have MS and my brain MRIs show spots like
landmines where my immune system has attacked my brain.
Interestingly, all the areas that are scarred are areas I'm not using.
So, I notice nothing in terms of physical/mental abnormality. ('cept
the loss of my left eye... it attacked my optic nerve.)

With this study, I'd have to ask my neurologist about the area of the
brain that's being affected. Is it really a volatile area? Having a
disease like this, you learn that there are many areas of the brain
that can be affected with no discernable repercussions. But the
reverse is true, too… there area areas of the brain that are
incredibly sensitive.

What's interesting is what others noticed; the study makes no claim
that alcohol causes brain atrophy. The actual cause of the atrophy
has yet to be determined.

-Paul

wrote in message t>...
> Well, you know how "THEY" also used to say you only use 10% of your
> brain, anyway? I always figured (hoped?) that the brain cells I was
> killing by drinking were the ones I wasn't using anyway, so my percent
> is actually INCREASING as the years progress, since I'm killing off all
> those free-loading brain cells.

I don't know how many of you heard the guy interviewed on CNN. He sounded
like a man on a mission stating that all the prior studies indicating there
are benefits to drinking are bogus and that this is the definitive study
proving what all researchers know already that alcohol is a poison. He said
that if you drink 4 glasses of wine a week you are doing serious damage to
your brain. The guy was downright evangelical.

Ray

"Sydney" > wrote in message
...
> Alcohol shrinks brain & no stroke benefits
>
> An interesting study found that low to moderate drinking may cause a loss
of
> brain tissue in middle-age people. The researchers also found that such
> alcohol consumption does not lower the risk of a stroke, contradicting
> findings from previous studies:
>
> http://go.jitbot.com/wife-overhit
>
> So much for my daily glass of wine. :-(
>
> -- Sydney
>
>

In article >, "Ray"
> wrote:

>I don't know how many of you heard the guy interviewed on CNN. He sounded
>like a man on a mission stating that all the prior studies indicating there
>are benefits to drinking are bogus and that this is the definitive study
>proving what all researchers know already that alcohol is a poison. He said
>that if you drink 4 glasses of wine a week you are doing serious damage to
>your brain. The guy was downright evangelical.

Particularly for a retrospective study with very small effects!

--
* PAUL K. BRANDON *
* Psychology Dept Minnesota State University *
* 23 Armstrong Hall, Mankato, MN 56001 ph 507-389-6217 *
* http://www.mankato.msus.edu/dept/psych/welcome.html *

"Tommy" > wrote in message
. 97.132...
> Something that is interesting about the science and medical field
> especially in the academic departments is the publish or perish clause.
> Many things that are published is just to "save their job" and are
> really useless. Any study that been done with such few MRI tests is
> purly usless,there are not enough data points to make any claim. Enjoy
> your brews is my view.\\
> >
> >>Alcohol shrinks brain & no stroke benefits
> >>
> >>An interesting study found that low to moderate drinking may cause a
> >>loss of brain tissue in middle-age people. The researchers also found
> >>that such alcohol consumption does not lower the risk of a stroke,
> >>contradicting findings from previous studies:
> >>
> >>http://go.jitbot.com/wife-overhit
> >>
> >>So much for my daily glass of wine. :-(
> >>
> >>-- Sydney
> >>
> > " Ding said researchers cannot make a definitive cause-and-effect link
> > between drinking and brain atrophy because the MRIs were done only
> > once during the study and because they found only a small reduction in
> > tissue."
> >
> >
> > Clink!
> >
>

The Alcohol most likely kills off the "weak" brain cells, thus leaving more
room and nutrients for the "strong" brain cells. That's why you suddenly
become an expert on most anything (especially women) after a couple of
bottles of "Big Red!"

Raise your IQ 10 points! No pills to take! Just a bottle or two of
Thunderbird!

Fred

"Sydney" > wrote in message >...
> Alcohol shrinks brain & no stroke benefits
>
> An interesting study found that low to moderate drinking may cause a loss of
> brain tissue in middle-age people.

---snip

I assume we are addressing the alcohol issue here. I don't know how
other feels, but I would be extremely happy if it would be possible to
create great wines without the alcohol effect. It is the taste,
feeling of a "big" wine that I would adore, not the alcohol effect on
my puny brain.

SG Brix

In article >,
(sgbrix) wrote:

>"Sydney" > wrote in message
>...
>> Alcohol shrinks brain & no stroke benefits
>>
>> An interesting study found that low to moderate drinking may cause a loss of
>> brain tissue in middle-age people.
>
> ---snip
>
>I assume we are addressing the alcohol issue here. I don't know how
>other feels, but I would be extremely happy if it would be possible to
>create great wines without the alcohol effect. It is the taste,
>feeling of a "big" wine that I would adore, not the alcohol effect on
>my puny brain.

You can suspend more solid matter in alcohol than in water (that's why
most cooking extracts are alcohol based, as are many liquid medicines).
Unfortunately, a 'wine' containing only water will taste watery.

--
* PAUL K. BRANDON *
* Psychology Dept Minnesota State University *
* 23 Armstrong Hall, Mankato, MN 56001 ph 507-389-6217 *
* http://www.mankato.msus.edu/dept/psych/welcome.html *

They are probably right, "low to moderate drinking may cause a loss of brain
tissue ", therefore you should drink more.

"Sydney" > wrote in message
...
> Alcohol shrinks brain & no stroke benefits
>
> An interesting study found that low to moderate drinking may cause a loss
of
> brain tissue in middle-age people. The researchers also found that such
> alcohol consumption does not lower the risk of a stroke, contradicting
> findings from previous studies:
>
> http://go.jitbot.com/wife-overhit
>
> So much for my daily glass of wine. :-(
>
> -- Sydney
>
>

"Tommy" > wrote in message
. 97.132...
> Something that is interesting about the science and medical field
> especially in the academic departments is the publish or perish clause.
> Many things that are published is just to "save their job" and are
> really useless. Any study that been done with such few MRI tests is
> purly usless,there are not enough data points to make any claim. Enjoy
> your brews is my view.\\

Same as I thought - in my words "Bollox" ',;~}~

I have found that squeezing my head with a hydraulic press actually does
make my brain shrink, but I ain't ever gonna stop doing that anyway - life's
too short!

Cheers!

Shaun aRe - Merry bloomin' Christmas!

"Fred Williams" > wrote in message
...

> The Alcohol most likely kills off the "weak" brain cells, thus leaving
more
> room and nutrients for the "strong" brain cells. That's why you suddenly
> become an expert on most anything (especially women) after a couple of
> bottles of "Big Red!"

LOL! Would that be Franks Big Red?

> Raise your IQ 10 points! No pills to take! Just a bottle or two of
> Thunderbird!

OMG! Surely you have to already be *brain damaged to go out and buy TB?!?!?

',;~}~

Shaun aRe - *Or 14 years old, or summink.

> Alcohol shrinks brain & no stroke benefits

Thank God, my brain was too big anyhow. I'm expecting
confirmation of that very fact again this Christmas.
Seems I'll wake up and it'll feel like my brain is trying
to get out of my head cause it's way too tight in there.

Don

"Sydney" > wrote in message >...
> Alcohol shrinks brain & no stroke benefits
>
> An interesting study found that low to moderate drinking may cause a loss of
> brain tissue in middle-age people. The researchers also found that such
> alcohol consumption does not lower the risk of a stroke, contradicting
> findings from previous studies:

The graduate students in government subsidized/supported colleges
these days are running out of topics for their ph.d dissertations.

MODERATION IS THE KEY! Your grandmom with no high schooling could
have told you that. For some, half a glass is too much while for
others a bottle is the starting dosage.

FP
=========================================



>
> http://go.jitbot.com/wife-overhit
>
> So much for my daily glass of wine. :-(
>
> -- Sydney

Tommy wrote:

> Something that is interesting about the science and medical field
> especially in the academic departments is the publish or perish
> clause. Many things that are published is just to "save their job"
> and are really useless.

The "publish or perish" phenomena is more applicable to the physical,
biological, and chemical sciences and not really applicable to the
medical sciences.

You would be surprised at the amount of medical (bench and clinical)
research that is done that never finds it's way to a paper or that
takes several years (3, 4, even 5 years) between data acquisition and
paper submission.

Quite a bit of medical research is, naturally, conducted by MD's who
usually have clinical responsibilities and thus are really not in a
position to "perish" if they don't "publish".

Don't fool yourself about this sort of stuff being "publish or perish". Dig
deep enough and I bet you will find that this is funded research from some
anti-alcohol group. Having been there I know that there is very little
research by professors or graduate students that is not funded by some group
who wants to prove a point.

As far as the moderation being the key, I agree with the concept of
moderation 100% and carry it to an extreme. I am VERY careful to moderate
my moderation!

Ray

"francispoon" > wrote in message
om...
> "Sydney" > wrote in message
>...
> > Alcohol shrinks brain & no stroke benefits
> >
> > An interesting study found that low to moderate drinking may cause a
loss of
> > brain tissue in middle-age people. The researchers also found that such
> > alcohol consumption does not lower the risk of a stroke, contradicting
> > findings from previous studies:
>
> The graduate students in government subsidized/supported colleges
> these days are running out of topics for their ph.d dissertations.
>
> MODERATION IS THE KEY! Your grandmom with no high schooling could
> have told you that. For some, half a glass is too much while for
> others a bottle is the starting dosage.
>
> FP
> =========================================
>
>
>
> >
> > http://go.jitbot.com/wife-overhit
> >
> > So much for my daily glass of wine. :-(
> >
> > -- Sydney

In article >, Myo Cardium > wrote:
>You would be surprised at the amount of medical (bench and clinical)
>research that is done that never finds it's way to a paper or that
>takes several years (3, 4, even 5 years) between data acquisition and
>paper submission.
>
>Quite a bit of medical research is, naturally, conducted by MD's who
>usually have clinical responsibilities and thus are really not in a
>position to "perish" if they don't "publish".

And since they have little or no research training (that's why med schools
offer dual MD/PhD programs) much of that research is flawed, which is why
it doesn't get published.

--
* PAUL K. BRANDON *
* Psychology Dept Minnesota State University *
* 23 Armstrong Hall, Mankato, MN 56001 ph 507-389-6217 *
* http://www.mankato.msus.edu/dept/psych/welcome.html *

Paul Brandon wrote:

> And since they have little or no research training (that's why
> med schools offer dual MD/PhD programs) much of that research
> is flawed, which is why it doesn't get published.

If a proposed research project was really flawed then most likely it
wouldn't get funded in the first place. The granting process tries to
weed out flawed research before it happens.

Remember that there is a wide spectrum of medical research being
performed. The media mostly focuses on clinical and epidemiological
research (you know, stuff like this food or that food is good/bad for
you, this or that behavior is good/bad for you, etc). You don't hear
a lot about the findings from bench or physiological or
pharmacological or device research (over the heads of most people).

Of course you hear little to nothing about the increasing amount of
research being done by academic labs that are paid for and directed by
pharma and device companies (large companies as well as small
start-ups). Data generated from those studies are used to support FDA
submissions as well as help attract VC financing.