I am forwarding this message on to the folk I know as it is good to know and
remember !

Bigbazza.(Barry)..Oz



I received this e-mail this morning from a friend and I have decided to post
it. Who knows, one of us might have to deal with a similar situation.

Lorraine


STROKE IDENTIFICATION:


During a BBQ a friend stumbled and took a little fall - she assured

everyone that she was fine (they offered to call paramedics) and just

tripped over a brick because of her new shoes. They got her cleaned up and

got her a new plate of food - while she appeared a bit shaken up, Ingrid

went about enjoying herself the rest of the evening.



Ingrid's husband called later telling everyone that his wife had been taken

to the hospital - (at 6:00pm, Ingrid passed away.)



She had suffered a stroke at the BBQ - had they known how to identify the

signs of a stroke perhaps Ingrid would be with us today. It only takes a

minute to read this-



Recognizing a Stroke



A neurologist says that if he can get to a stroke victim within 3 hours

he can totally reverse the effects of a stroke...totally. He said the trick

was getting a stroke recognized, diagnosed an getting to the patient within

3 hours which is tough.



RECOGNIZING A STROKE



Thank God for the sense to remember the "3" steps. Read and Learn!Many

times symptoms of a stroke are difficult to identify.



Unfortunately, the lack of awareness spells disaster. The stroke victim

may suffer brain damage when people nearby fail to recognize the symptoms of
a

stroke.



Now doctors say a bystander can recognize a stroke by asking three simple

questions:



1. *Ask the individual to SMILE.



2. *Ask him or her to RAISE BOTH ARMS.



3. *Ask the person to SPEAK A SIMPLE SENTENCE (Coherently) (i.e. . . It is

sunny out today)



If he or she has trouble with any of these tasks, call 9-1-1 immediately

and describe the symptoms to the dispatcher.



After discovering that a group of non-medical volunteers could identify

facial weakness, arm weakness and speech problems, researchers urged the

general public to learn the three questions.



They presented their conclusions at the American Stroke Association's

annual meeting last February. Widespread use of this test could result in
prompt

diagnosis and treatment of the stroke and prevent brain damage.



A cardiologist says if everyone who gets this e-mail sends it to 10

people;

you can bet that at least one life will be saved.



BE A FRIEND AND SHARE THIS ARTICLE WITH AS MANY FRIENDS AS POSSIBLE, you

could save their lives

Bigbazza wrote:

> A neurologist says that if he can get to a stroke victim within 3 hours
>
> he can totally reverse the effects of a stroke...totally. He said the trick
>
> was getting a stroke recognized, diagnosed an getting to the patient within
>
> 3 hours which is tough.
>

Let me clarify: The ideal stroke plan is that a patient is seen and gets
a CT within 60 minutes of arrival in ER to determine the type of stroke
if a stroke at all?
The neurologist you mention surely said that *some* patients with
ischemic strokes (clots, emboli) can be helped with the clot busting
drugs we have at our disposal now. These drugs are given withen three
hours onset of symptoms (not arrival in the ER). Not everyone is a
candidate for this treatment, nor will everyone be "reversed" totally.
Hemorrhagic (bleed) strokes most certainly ARE NOT treated this same way.
Aprox. 70% of strokes are ischemic, 30% hemorrhagic.
Gooomba

"Goomba38" > wrote in message
. ..
> Bigbazza wrote:
>
>> A neurologist says that if he can get to a stroke victim within 3 hours
>>
>> he can totally reverse the effects of a stroke...totally. He said the trick
>>
>> was getting a stroke recognized, diagnosed an getting to the patient within
>>
>> 3 hours which is tough.
>>
>
> Let me clarify: The ideal stroke plan is that a patient is seen and gets a CT
> within 60 minutes of arrival in ER to determine the type of stroke if a stroke
> at all?
> The neurologist you mention surely said that *some* patients with ischemic
> strokes (clots, emboli) can be helped with the clot busting drugs we have at
> our disposal now. These drugs are given withen three hours onset of symptoms
> (not arrival in the ER). Not everyone is a candidate for this treatment, nor
> will everyone be "reversed" totally.
> Hemorrhagic (bleed) strokes most certainly ARE NOT treated this same way.
> Aprox. 70% of strokes are ischemic, 30% hemorrhagic.
> Gooomba

In addition quite often the person having the stroke is usually the second
person to notice something is drastically wrong. With certain types of stroke
there is little or no pain. Pay attention to the people around you if they
start acting a little strange or have muscle problems.

Read http://www.hoax-slayer.com/identify-stroke.html



"Bigbazza" > wrote in message
...
>I am forwarding this message on to the folk I know as it is good to know
>and
> remember !
>
> Bigbazza.(Barry)..Oz
>
>
>
> I received this e-mail this morning from a friend and I have decided to
> post
> it. Who knows, one of us might have to deal with a similar situation.
>
> Lorraine
>
>
> STROKE IDENTIFICATION:
>
>
> During a BBQ a friend stumbled and took a little fall - she assured
>
> everyone that she was fine (they offered to call paramedics) and just
>
> tripped over a brick because of her new shoes. They got her cleaned up and
>
> got her a new plate of food - while she appeared a bit shaken up, Ingrid
>
> went about enjoying herself the rest of the evening.
>
>
>
> Ingrid's husband called later telling everyone that his wife had been
> taken
>
> to the hospital - (at 6:00pm, Ingrid passed away.)
>
>
>
> She had suffered a stroke at the BBQ - had they known how to identify the
>
> signs of a stroke perhaps Ingrid would be with us today. It only takes a
>
> minute to read this-
>
>
>
> Recognizing a Stroke
>
>
>
> A neurologist says that if he can get to a stroke victim within 3 hours
>
> he can totally reverse the effects of a stroke...totally. He said the
> trick
>
> was getting a stroke recognized, diagnosed an getting to the patient
> within
>
> 3 hours which is tough.
>
>
>
> RECOGNIZING A STROKE
>
>
>
> Thank God for the sense to remember the "3" steps. Read and Learn!Many
>
> times symptoms of a stroke are difficult to identify.
>
>
>
> Unfortunately, the lack of awareness spells disaster. The stroke victim
>
> may suffer brain damage when people nearby fail to recognize the symptoms
> of
> a
>
> stroke.
>
>
>
> Now doctors say a bystander can recognize a stroke by asking three simple
>
> questions:
>
>
>
> 1. *Ask the individual to SMILE.
>
>
>
> 2. *Ask him or her to RAISE BOTH ARMS.
>
>
>
> 3. *Ask the person to SPEAK A SIMPLE SENTENCE (Coherently) (i.e. . . It is
>
> sunny out today)
>
>
>
> If he or she has trouble with any of these tasks, call 9-1-1 immediately
>
> and describe the symptoms to the dispatcher.
>
>
>
> After discovering that a group of non-medical volunteers could identify
>
> facial weakness, arm weakness and speech problems, researchers urged the
>
> general public to learn the three questions.
>
>
>
> They presented their conclusions at the American Stroke Association's
>
> annual meeting last February. Widespread use of this test could result in
> prompt
>
> diagnosis and treatment of the stroke and prevent brain damage.
>
>
>
> A cardiologist says if everyone who gets this e-mail sends it to 10
>
> people;
>
> you can bet that at least one life will be saved.
>
>
>
> BE A FRIEND AND SHARE THIS ARTICLE WITH AS MANY FRIENDS AS POSSIBLE, you
>
> could save their lives
>
>
>

"MG" > wrote in message
...
> Read http://www.hoax-slayer.com/identify-stroke.html
>
>
>
> "Bigbazza" > wrote in message
> ...
>>I am forwarding this message on to the folk I know as it is good to know
>>and
>> remember !
>>
>> Bigbazza.(Barry)..Oz
>>
>>
>>
>> I received this e-mail this morning from a friend and I have decided to
>> post
>> it. Who knows, one of us might have to deal with a similar situation.
>>
>> Lorraine
>>
>>
>> STROKE IDENTIFICATION:
>>
>>
>> During a BBQ a friend stumbled and took a little fall - she assured
>>
>> everyone that she was fine (they offered to call paramedics) and just
>>
>> tripped over a brick because of her new shoes. They got her cleaned up
>> and
>>
>> got her a new plate of food - while she appeared a bit shaken up, Ingrid
>>
>> went about enjoying herself the rest of the evening.
>>
>>
>>
>> Ingrid's husband called later telling everyone that his wife had been
>> taken
>>
>> to the hospital - (at 6:00pm, Ingrid passed away.)
>>
>>
>>
>> She had suffered a stroke at the BBQ - had they known how to identify the
>>
>> signs of a stroke perhaps Ingrid would be with us today. It only takes a
>>
>> minute to read this-
>>
>>
>>
>> Recognizing a Stroke
>>
>>
>>
>> A neurologist says that if he can get to a stroke victim within 3 hours
>>
>> he can totally reverse the effects of a stroke...totally. He said the
>> trick
>>
>> was getting a stroke recognized, diagnosed an getting to the patient
>> within
>>
>> 3 hours which is tough.
>>
>>
>>
>> RECOGNIZING A STROKE
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank God for the sense to remember the "3" steps. Read and Learn!Many
>>
>> times symptoms of a stroke are difficult to identify.
>>
>>
>>
>> Unfortunately, the lack of awareness spells disaster. The stroke victim
>>
>> may suffer brain damage when people nearby fail to recognize the symptoms
>> of
>> a
>>
>> stroke.
>>
>>
>>
>> Now doctors say a bystander can recognize a stroke by asking three simple
>>
>> questions:
>>
>>
>>
>> 1. *Ask the individual to SMILE.
>>
>>
>>
>> 2. *Ask him or her to RAISE BOTH ARMS.
>>
>>
>>
>> 3. *Ask the person to SPEAK A SIMPLE SENTENCE (Coherently) (i.e. . . It
>> is
>>
>> sunny out today)
>>
>>
>>
>> If he or she has trouble with any of these tasks, call 9-1-1 immediately
>>
>> and describe the symptoms to the dispatcher.
>>
>>
>>
>> After discovering that a group of non-medical volunteers could identify
>>
>> facial weakness, arm weakness and speech problems, researchers urged the
>>
>> general public to learn the three questions.
>>
>>
>>
>> They presented their conclusions at the American Stroke Association's
>>
>> annual meeting last February. Widespread use of this test could result in
>> prompt
>>
>> diagnosis and treatment of the stroke and prevent brain damage.
>>
>>
>>
>> A cardiologist says if everyone who gets this e-mail sends it to 10
>>
>> people;
>>
>> you can bet that at least one life will be saved.
>>
>>
>>
>> BE A FRIEND AND SHARE THIS ARTICLE WITH AS MANY FRIENDS AS POSSIBLE, you
>>
>> could save their lives
>>
>>


Yes..MG...I did look at it...BUT..Did 'YOU' look at it ??...The Status say's
that it is TRUE !!....Have a look again ! :-))
--
Bigbazza (Barry)..Oz

"Bigbazza" > wrote in message
...
>
> "MG" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Read http://www.hoax-slayer.com/identify-stroke.html
>>
>>
>>
>> "Bigbazza" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>I am forwarding this message on to the folk I know as it is good to know
>>>and
>>> remember !


snip snip...

yes bazza, I did, and what I thought (and the site states) was relevant was
not that it was incorrect, but that it was INCOMPLETE...someone could
actually be having a CVA, and make a potentially dangerous decision based on
NOT having the three listed symptoms/signs, and hence delay treatment.

that's why I don't think it should be widely distributed...but that's just
my opinion :-)

MG

OB: food - had homemade quiche tonight, made by a friend, but like no other
quiche I've ever tried...basic recipe is beaten eggs, grated cheese, bacon
pieces, some spices/flavourings, and a sachet(?) of that pastry case in a
box stuff (where all you add is water to get a short crust pastry) all
whisked together, poured into dish (lasagna or roast type dish) and cooked.

texture not too bad, flavour good, but it fills you up quickly...must be all
that flour or shortening or whatever in the dry mix

"MG" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Bigbazza" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "MG" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Read http://www.hoax-slayer.com/identify-stroke.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Bigbazza" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>I am forwarding this message on to the folk I know as it is good to know
>>>>and
>>>> remember !
>
>
> snip snip...
>
> yes bazza, I did, and what I thought (and the site states) was relevant
> was not that it was incorrect, but that it was INCOMPLETE...someone could
> actually be having a CVA, and make a potentially dangerous decision based
> on NOT having the three listed symptoms/signs, and hence delay treatment.
>
> that's why I don't think it should be widely distributed...but that's just
> my opinion :-)
>
> MG
>
> OB: food - had homemade quiche tonight, made by a friend, but like no
> other quiche I've ever tried...basic recipe is beaten eggs, grated cheese,
> bacon pieces, some spices/flavourings, and a sachet(?) of that pastry case
> in a box stuff (where all you add is water to get a short crust pastry)
> all whisked together, poured into dish (lasagna or roast type dish) and
> cooked.
>
> texture not too bad, flavour good, but it fills you up quickly...must be
> all that flour or shortening or whatever in the dry mix
>
>
>


That's OK...MG...You certainly have a point there !
--
Bigbazza (Barry)..Oz

"MG" > wrote in message news:5Mejf.7503> yes
bazza, I did, and what I thought (and the site states) was relevant was
> not that it was incorrect, but that it was INCOMPLETE...someone could
> actually be having a CVA, and make a potentially dangerous decision
> based on NOT having the three listed symptoms/signs, and hence delay
> treatment.
>
> that's why I don't think it should be widely distributed...but that's
> just my opinion :-)

It is incomplete, but at least there are some things to look for which I
suppose is better than nothing. It also makes people aware that if
someone does fall over there might be something else going on, so it
certainly wasn't a waste of time

"Ophelia" > wrote in message
.uk...
>
> "MG" > wrote in message news:5Mejf.7503> yes
> bazza, I did, and what I thought (and the site states) was relevant was
>> not that it was incorrect, but that it was INCOMPLETE...someone could
>> actually be having a CVA, and make a potentially dangerous decision
>> based on NOT having the three listed symptoms/signs, and hence delay
>> treatment.
>>
>> that's why I don't think it should be widely distributed...but that's
>> just my opinion :-)
>
> It is incomplete, but at least there are some things to look for which I
> suppose is better than nothing. It also makes people aware that if
> someone does fall over there might be something else going on, so it
> certainly wasn't a waste of time
>
>
>

In some respects that's true Ophelia, but it's been my experience that "the
public" tend to read these types of items, whether they're on the 'net or in
the news, as black and white; either the symptoms are there, and that's bad,
or they're not there, and that's good

A good example was the old gentleman I treated a while back,. who had read
in a magazine (a fairly reputable one, that includes a mix of human
interest, humorous and other anecdotes", where he'd read that taking an
aspirin if you had chest pain or angina was a good thing as studies had
shown it to prevent further damage to heart muscle. Problem was, he ONLY
took aspirin one day when having severe angina, and not the anginine tablets
he was supposed to use. He also waited several hours with the pain before
calling an ambulance, as he thought the aspirin would also act as a pain
killer (after all, that's what it does, doesn't it?)

That's the only reason I made the comments above...I suppose it all comes
back to the old adage "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing"

MG

"MG" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Ophelia" > wrote in message
> .uk...
>>
>> "MG" > wrote in message news:5Mejf.7503> yes
>> bazza, I did, and what I thought (and the site states) was relevant
>> was
>>> not that it was incorrect, but that it was INCOMPLETE...someone
>>> could
>>> actually be having a CVA, and make a potentially dangerous decision
>>> based on NOT having the three listed symptoms/signs, and hence delay
>>> treatment.
>>>
>>> that's why I don't think it should be widely distributed...but
>>> that's
>>> just my opinion :-)
>>
>> It is incomplete, but at least there are some things to look for
>> which I
>> suppose is better than nothing. It also makes people aware that if
>> someone does fall over there might be something else going on, so it
>> certainly wasn't a waste of time
>>
>>
>>
>
> In some respects that's true Ophelia, but it's been my experience that
> "the public" tend to read these types of items, whether they're on the
> 'net or in the news, as black and white; either the symptoms are
> there, and that's bad, or they're not there, and that's good
>
> A good example was the old gentleman I treated a while back,. who had
> read in a magazine (a fairly reputable one, that includes a mix of
> human interest, humorous and other anecdotes", where he'd read that
> taking an aspirin if you had chest pain or angina was a good thing as
> studies had shown it to prevent further damage to heart muscle.
> Problem was, he ONLY took aspirin one day when having severe angina,
> and not the anginine tablets he was supposed to use. He also waited
> several hours with the pain before calling an ambulance, as he thought
> the aspirin would also act as a pain killer (after all, that's what it
> does, doesn't it?)

Oh heavens

>
> That's the only reason I made the comments above...I suppose it all
> comes back to the old adage "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing"

True, especially in that case, but my point is that making people
generally aware is a good thing. We can't turn everyone into doctors,
but if they know at least to keep an eye out for some things out of the
ordinary, some lives might be saved. If the friends of the woman that
died outlined by the OP had even some idea of possible problems, who
knows.. she might have been saved. Given that, I think the post was
useful, because at least *some* things were outlined even if incomplete.
Would I be right in thinking that in most cases there would be more
evidence of stroke which would cause alarm?

Personally I would never have thought of stroke in that situation. At
least now it would occur to me that it might be a possibility.

"MG" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Ophelia" > wrote in message
> .uk...
>>
>> "MG" > wrote in message news:5Mejf.7503> yes
>> bazza, I did, and what I thought (and the site states) was relevant was
>>> not that it was incorrect, but that it was INCOMPLETE...someone could
>>> actually be having a CVA, and make a potentially dangerous decision
>>> based on NOT having the three listed symptoms/signs, and hence delay
>>> treatment.
>>>
>>> that's why I don't think it should be widely distributed...but that's
>>> just my opinion :-)
>>
>> It is incomplete, but at least there are some things to look for which I
>> suppose is better than nothing. It also makes people aware that if
>> someone does fall over there might be something else going on, so it
>> certainly wasn't a waste of time
>>
>>
>>
>
> In some respects that's true Ophelia, but it's been my experience that
> "the public" tend to read these types of items, whether they're on the
> 'net or in the news, as black and white; either the symptoms are there,
> and that's bad, or they're not there, and that's good
>
> A good example was the old gentleman I treated a while back,. who had read
> in a magazine (a fairly reputable one, that includes a mix of human
> interest, humorous and other anecdotes", where he'd read that taking an
> aspirin if you had chest pain or angina was a good thing as studies had
> shown it to prevent further damage to heart muscle. Problem was, he ONLY
> took aspirin one day when having severe angina, and not the anginine
> tablets he was supposed to use. He also waited several hours with the pain
> before calling an ambulance, as he thought the aspirin would also act as a
> pain killer (after all, that's what it does, doesn't it?)
>
> That's the only reason I made the comments above...I suppose it all comes
> back to the old adage "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing"
>
> MG
>

Though ...Better some Knowledge than none at all...MG !!
--
Bigbazza (Barry)..Oz

"Bigbazza" > wrote in message
...
>
> "MG" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Ophelia" > wrote in message
>> .uk...
>>>
>>> "MG" > wrote in message news:5Mejf.7503> yes
>>> bazza, I did, and what I thought (and the site states) was relevant was
>>>> not that it was incorrect, but that it was INCOMPLETE...someone could
>>>> actually be having a CVA, and make a potentially dangerous decision
>>>> based on NOT having the three listed symptoms/signs, and hence delay
>>>> treatment.
>>>>
>>>> that's why I don't think it should be widely distributed...but that's
>>>> just my opinion :-)
>>>
>>> It is incomplete, but at least there are some things to look for which I
>>> suppose is better than nothing. It also makes people aware that if
>>> someone does fall over there might be something else going on, so it
>>> certainly wasn't a waste of time
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> In some respects that's true Ophelia, but it's been my experience that
>> "the public" tend to read these types of items, whether they're on the
>> 'net or in the news, as black and white; either the symptoms are there,
>> and that's bad, or they're not there, and that's good
>>
>> A good example was the old gentleman I treated a while back,. who had
>> read in a magazine (a fairly reputable one, that includes a mix of human
>> interest, humorous and other anecdotes", where he'd read that taking an
>> aspirin if you had chest pain or angina was a good thing as studies had
>> shown it to prevent further damage to heart muscle. Problem was, he ONLY
>> took aspirin one day when having severe angina, and not the anginine
>> tablets he was supposed to use. He also waited several hours with the
>> pain before calling an ambulance, as he thought the aspirin would also
>> act as a pain killer (after all, that's what it does, doesn't it?)
>>
>> That's the only reason I made the comments above...I suppose it all comes
>> back to the old adage "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing"
>>
>> MG
>>
>
> Though ...Better some Knowledge than none at all...MG !!
> --
> Bigbazza (Barry)..Oz
>

in the end, I suppose so, having seen what total ignorance of even simple
health-related things can do

MG...who is also in Oz :-)

"Ophelia" > wrote in message
.uk...
>
> "MG" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Ophelia" > wrote in message
>> .uk...
>>>
>>> "MG" > wrote in message news:5Mejf.7503> yes
>>> bazza, I did, and what I thought (and the site states) was relevant
>>> was
>>>> not that it was incorrect, but that it was INCOMPLETE...someone
>>>> could
>>>> actually be having a CVA, and make a potentially dangerous decision
>>>> based on NOT having the three listed symptoms/signs, and hence delay
>>>> treatment.
>>>>
>>>> that's why I don't think it should be widely distributed...but
>>>> that's
>>>> just my opinion :-)
>>>
>>> It is incomplete, but at least there are some things to look for
>>> which I
>>> suppose is better than nothing. It also makes people aware that if
>>> someone does fall over there might be something else going on, so it
>>> certainly wasn't a waste of time
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> In some respects that's true Ophelia, but it's been my experience that
>> "the public" tend to read these types of items, whether they're on the
>> 'net or in the news, as black and white; either the symptoms are
>> there, and that's bad, or they're not there, and that's good
>>
>> A good example was the old gentleman I treated a while back,. who had
>> read in a magazine (a fairly reputable one, that includes a mix of
>> human interest, humorous and other anecdotes", where he'd read that
>> taking an aspirin if you had chest pain or angina was a good thing as
>> studies had shown it to prevent further damage to heart muscle.
>> Problem was, he ONLY took aspirin one day when having severe angina,
>> and not the anginine tablets he was supposed to use. He also waited
>> several hours with the pain before calling an ambulance, as he thought
>> the aspirin would also act as a pain killer (after all, that's what it
>> does, doesn't it?)
>
> Oh heavens
>
>>
>> That's the only reason I made the comments above...I suppose it all
>> comes back to the old adage "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing"
>
> True, especially in that case, but my point is that making people
> generally aware is a good thing. We can't turn everyone into doctors,
> but if they know at least to keep an eye out for some things out of the
> ordinary, some lives might be saved. If the friends of the woman that
> died outlined by the OP had even some idea of possible problems, who
> knows.. she might have been saved. Given that, I think the post was
> useful, because at least *some* things were outlined even if incomplete.
> Would I be right in thinking that in most cases there would be more
> evidence of stroke which would cause alarm?
>
> Personally I would never have thought of stroke in that situation. At
> least now it would occur to me that it might be a possibility.
>
>
>

true Ophelia...and yes, other things may cause alarm, but sometimes the
onset of a stroke can be a simple as having a sudden onset headache (how
many of THOSE do we all have? lol), an episode of dizziness (ditto) or some
other fairly innocuous symptom, to more obvious ones such as seizures,
sudden paralysis, collapse, or other.

I guess the moral of the story is...if it's abnormal for the person, get it
investigated! and soon, especially if the person has other risk factors such
as older aged, high blood pressure, cardiac conditions, high cholesterol,
smoking, drinking excessively, clotting disorders, etc, or previous 'odd or
weird' short lived symptoms such as the innocuous ones above, or other more
obvious ones

MG

"MG" > wrote in message
...
>> true Ophelia...and yes, other things may cause alarm, but sometimes
>> the
> onset of a stroke can be a simple as having a sudden onset headache
> (how many of THOSE do we all have? lol), an episode of dizziness
> (ditto) or some other fairly innocuous symptom, to more obvious ones
> such as seizures, sudden paralysis, collapse, or other.
>
> I guess the moral of the story is...if it's abnormal for the person,
> get it investigated! and soon, especially if the person has other risk
> factors such as older aged, high blood pressure, cardiac conditions,
> high cholesterol, smoking, drinking excessively, clotting disorders,
> etc, or previous 'odd or weird' short lived symptoms such as the
> innocuous ones above, or other more obvious ones

If we take the factors you list into account, and given one can't call
in medical help for such things as sudden onset headache, (I don't know
about USA but certainly no Doctor here in UK would visit for a headache)
what checks should a non medical person do in such an event?

"MG" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Bigbazza" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "MG" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Ophelia" > wrote in message
>>> .uk...
>>>>
>>>> "MG" > wrote in message news:5Mejf.7503> yes
>>>> bazza, I did, and what I thought (and the site states) was relevant was
>>>>> not that it was incorrect, but that it was INCOMPLETE...someone could
>>>>> actually be having a CVA, and make a potentially dangerous decision
>>>>> based on NOT having the three listed symptoms/signs, and hence delay
>>>>> treatment.
>>>>>
>>>>> that's why I don't think it should be widely distributed...but that's
>>>>> just my opinion :-)
>>>>
>>>> It is incomplete, but at least there are some things to look for which
>>>> I
>>>> suppose is better than nothing. It also makes people aware that if
>>>> someone does fall over there might be something else going on, so it
>>>> certainly wasn't a waste of time
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> In some respects that's true Ophelia, but it's been my experience that
>>> "the public" tend to read these types of items, whether they're on the
>>> 'net or in the news, as black and white; either the symptoms are there,
>>> and that's bad, or they're not there, and that's good
>>>
>>> A good example was the old gentleman I treated a while back,. who had
>>> read in a magazine (a fairly reputable one, that includes a mix of human
>>> interest, humorous and other anecdotes", where he'd read that taking an
>>> aspirin if you had chest pain or angina was a good thing as studies had
>>> shown it to prevent further damage to heart muscle. Problem was, he ONLY
>>> took aspirin one day when having severe angina, and not the anginine
>>> tablets he was supposed to use. He also waited several hours with the
>>> pain before calling an ambulance, as he thought the aspirin would also
>>> act as a pain killer (after all, that's what it does, doesn't it?)
>>>
>>> That's the only reason I made the comments above...I suppose it all
>>> comes back to the old adage "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing"
>>>
>>> MG
>>>
>>
>> Though ...Better some Knowledge than none at all...MG !!
>> --
>> Bigbazza (Barry)..Oz
>>
>
> in the end, I suppose so, having seen what total ignorance of even simple
> health-related things can do
>
> MG...who is also in Oz :-)
>


I had noticed from your IP No that you were with Telstra (Bigpond) in
Australia !...From what part do you come from ??..I am from The Upper North
Shore in Sydney !!
--
Bigbazza (Barry)..Oz

"MG" > wrote in message
...

<snip>

> yes bazza, I did, and what I thought (and the site states) was relevant was
> not that it was incorrect, but that it was INCOMPLETE...someone could actually
> be having a CVA, and make a potentially dangerous decision based on NOT having
> the three listed symptoms/signs, and hence delay treatment.
>
> that's why I don't think it should be widely distributed...but that's just my
> opinion :-)
>
> MG

And with NO knowledge what are the options? Wait until paralysis set in?

I think this is a case where some knowledge is better than none. At the very
least if the symptoms described do present themselves there is at the very least
a trip to the ER or a 911 call.

Dimitri

In article >,
"MG" > wrote:
>
> true Ophelia...and yes, other things may cause alarm, but sometimes the
> onset of a stroke can be a simple as having a sudden onset headache (how
> many of THOSE do we all have? lol), an episode of dizziness (ditto) or some
> other fairly innocuous symptom, to more obvious ones such as seizures,
> sudden paralysis, collapse, or other.
>
> I guess the moral of the story is...if it's abnormal for the person, get it
> investigated! and soon, especially if the person has other risk factors such
> as older aged, high blood pressure, cardiac conditions, high cholesterol,
> smoking, drinking excessively, clotting disorders, etc, or previous 'odd or
> weird' short lived symptoms such as the innocuous ones above, or other more
> obvious ones

This is a subject that's very close to me. My mom had a mild stroke
several years ago and I had a stroke about 13 months ago. I can tell you
my experience from a year ago when I mad a very minor stroke. I began to
display stroke symptoms after one Monday morning shortly before a
scheduled doctor's appointment. I noticed that I had trouble typing and
walking. I felt drunk even though I was not drinking. Taking a shower
was a major challenge, but I did it. I was awake the past few nights
with the worse cold I had in years so I just assumed I was very
fatigued. The fact that I had a lot of pressure at work didn't help
either.

I was able to drive the quarter mile or so to my doctor's office, no
problem, although I usually walk. I figured I would ask my doctor about
what was happening to me since I already had an appointment to treat me
for my cold. Being as though I live alone, I did not realize my speech
was impaired until I got to my doctor's office and signed in. This is
when I found out that the right side of my face was droopy. I also
discovered that I could barely write my own name! This is when I got
very nervous!

My doctor was away at a convention, but his assistant saw me. The nurse
at the front desk could see something was wrong, so the usual 15 minute
wait in the waiting room was reduced to a minute or two. The physician's
assistant conducted all the tests that were listed in the OP's article.
She also asked me if I had any trouble seeing (double vision) or head
aches. I had none of those other symptoms. My BP was quickly taken and
the systolic it was very high even though I had taken a blood pressure
pill an hour or two earlier. While this was going on, an ambulance was
called and my parents were notified.

I was given a choice of hospitals, so I picked Kennedy Hospital near my
home in New Jersey where I knew the parking would be easy because I
figured I would have a lot of visitors. I received a CAT scan right
away, but it didn't show any abnormalities, so I received an MRI. I was
okay enough and inquisitive enough to ask the MRI person to demonstrate
the technology to me, which she willingly did. The neurologist who
happened to be the ER doctor at the time didn't see anything wrong with
the MRI.

Other than my slurred speech, trouble walking and writing, and that
damned cold, I felt fine. The ER staff allowed me to use my cell phone
so I called my folks and I told them i was okay. They live nearby, but
their only car was in the shop so I told them they might was well sit
tight at home. I called a couple of friends too and I played a game on
my Palm Pilot while I waited and waited and waited.

At around 4:00pm, I was transferred by ambulance to Jefferson Hospital
in Philly where they have an acute stroke center. The care I received at
both hospitals was impressive. At least two neurologists at Jefferson
studied my MRI and CAT scan. After a couple of days, they figured out
what was wrong and I was released to my parents' care. I spent the
better part of three weeks doing nothing but sleeping. And the rest is
history.

"Stan Horwitz" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "MG" > wrote:

<snip>

> At around 4:00pm, I was transferred by ambulance to Jefferson Hospital
> in Philly where they have an acute stroke center. The care I received at
> both hospitals was impressive. At least two neurologists at Jefferson
> studied my MRI and CAT scan. After a couple of days, they figured out
> what was wrong and I was released to my parents' care. I spent the
> better part of three weeks doing nothing but sleeping. And the rest is
> history.

Stan,

The rest may not be "history"as you call it. How much Physical Therapy , Speech
Therapy, Occupational Therapy , and education did you have to have?

How much residual damage if any?

Have you changed your lifestyle?

Dimitri

"Stan Horwitz" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "MG" > wrote:
>>
>> true Ophelia...and yes, other things may cause alarm, but sometimes
>> the
>> onset of a stroke can be a simple as having a sudden onset headache
>> (how
>> many of THOSE do we all have? lol), an episode of dizziness (ditto)
>> or some
>> other fairly innocuous symptom, to more obvious ones such as
>> seizures,
>> sudden paralysis, collapse, or other.
>>
>> I guess the moral of the story is...if it's abnormal for the person,
>> get it
>> investigated! and soon, especially if the person has other risk
>> factors such
>> as older aged, high blood pressure, cardiac conditions, high
>> cholesterol,
>> smoking, drinking excessively, clotting disorders, etc, or previous
>> 'odd or
>> weird' short lived symptoms such as the innocuous ones above, or
>> other more
>> obvious ones
>
> This is a subject that's very close to me. My mom had a mild stroke
> several years ago and I had a stroke about 13 months ago. I can tell
> you
> my experience from a year ago when I mad a very minor stroke. I began
> to
> display stroke symptoms after one Monday morning shortly before a
> scheduled doctor's appointment. I noticed that I had trouble typing
> and
> walking. I felt drunk even though I was not drinking. Taking a shower
> was a major challenge, but I did it. I was awake the past few nights
> with the worse cold I had in years so I just assumed I was very
> fatigued. The fact that I had a lot of pressure at work didn't help
> either.
>
> I was able to drive the quarter mile or so to my doctor's office, no
> problem, although I usually walk. I figured I would ask my doctor
> about
> what was happening to me since I already had an appointment to treat
> me
> for my cold. Being as though I live alone, I did not realize my speech
> was impaired until I got to my doctor's office and signed in. This is
> when I found out that the right side of my face was droopy. I also
> discovered that I could barely write my own name! This is when I got
> very nervous!
>
> My doctor was away at a convention, but his assistant saw me. The
> nurse
> at the front desk could see something was wrong, so the usual 15
> minute
> wait in the waiting room was reduced to a minute or two. The
> physician's
> assistant conducted all the tests that were listed in the OP's
> article.
> She also asked me if I had any trouble seeing (double vision) or head
> aches. I had none of those other symptoms. My BP was quickly taken and
> the systolic it was very high even though I had taken a blood pressure
> pill an hour or two earlier. While this was going on, an ambulance was
> called and my parents were notified.
>
> I was given a choice of hospitals, so I picked Kennedy Hospital near
> my
> home in New Jersey where I knew the parking would be easy because I
> figured I would have a lot of visitors. I received a CAT scan right
> away, but it didn't show any abnormalities, so I received an MRI. I
> was
> okay enough and inquisitive enough to ask the MRI person to
> demonstrate
> the technology to me, which she willingly did. The neurologist who
> happened to be the ER doctor at the time didn't see anything wrong
> with
> the MRI.
>
> Other than my slurred speech, trouble walking and writing, and that
> damned cold, I felt fine. The ER staff allowed me to use my cell phone
> so I called my folks and I told them i was okay. They live nearby, but
> their only car was in the shop so I told them they might was well sit
> tight at home. I called a couple of friends too and I played a game on
> my Palm Pilot while I waited and waited and waited.
>
> At around 4:00pm, I was transferred by ambulance to Jefferson Hospital
> in Philly where they have an acute stroke center. The care I received
> at
> both hospitals was impressive. At least two neurologists at Jefferson
> studied my MRI and CAT scan. After a couple of days, they figured out
> what was wrong and I was released to my parents' care. I spent the
> better part of three weeks doing nothing but sleeping. And the rest is
> history.

Thank you for sharing that Stan. It was very useful

"Ophelia" > wrote in message
. uk...
>
> "MG" > wrote in message
> ...
>>> true Ophelia...and yes, other things may cause alarm, but sometimes the
>> onset of a stroke can be a simple as having a sudden onset headache (how
>> many of THOSE do we all have? lol), an episode of dizziness (ditto) or
>> some other fairly innocuous symptom, to more obvious ones such as
>> seizures, sudden paralysis, collapse, or other.
> >
>> I guess the moral of the story is...if it's abnormal for the person, get
>> it investigated! and soon, especially if the person has other risk
>> factors such as older aged, high blood pressure, cardiac conditions, high
>> cholesterol, smoking, drinking excessively, clotting disorders, etc, or
>> previous 'odd or weird' short lived symptoms such as the innocuous ones
>> above, or other more obvious ones
>
> If we take the factors you list into account, and given one can't call in
> medical help for such things as sudden onset headache, (I don't know about
> USA but certainly no Doctor here in UK would visit for a headache) what
> checks should a non medical person do in such an event?
>
>

Occasionally you'll find a doctor who will come out for a home visit here in
Oz (or at least, here in Adelaide, don't know about the other states)

I DO know however that people here will call an emergency ambulance for much
LESS than a headache, and they'll get sent one (people call for lost contact
lens; a restless baby who won't go to sleep at 3am; an abrasion on their
hand; to let their cat out (found that one out once we got there); to help
them get into/out of bed/chair; etc etc. The paramedics will assess, and if
they find anything suspicious, should transport the person to hospital. I
assume the same would happen in the UK or USA?

Often, people who are being treated for high blood pressure have their own
home BP machine (or sphygmomanometer)...a common symptom during a stroke is
finding a person's BP goes quite higher than normal.

The affected person may not notice, but other people would notice things
like slurred speech, or a facial droop on one side of their face (sometimes
one side of the mouth droops or the eyelid), or they start dribbling from
one side of their mouth, or they can't chew or swallow properly

Just a few more things off the top of my head, that could be used in
addition to the three outlines in the OP, and my previous answer.

MG

>> MG...who is also in Oz :-)
>>
>
>
> I had noticed from your IP No that you were with Telstra (Bigpond) in
> Australia !...From what part do you come from ??..I am from The Upper
> North Shore in Sydney !!
> --
> Bigbazza (Barry)..Oz
>

am in lil ol' Adelaide...where, on the first day of summer, it is pouring
with rain and damn cold! lol

"MG" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Ophelia" > wrote in message
> . uk...
>>
>> "MG" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>> true Ophelia...and yes, other things may cause alarm, but sometimes
>>>> the
>>> onset of a stroke can be a simple as having a sudden onset headache
>>> (how many of THOSE do we all have? lol), an episode of dizziness
>>> (ditto) or some other fairly innocuous symptom, to more obvious ones
>>> such as seizures, sudden paralysis, collapse, or other.
>> >
>>> I guess the moral of the story is...if it's abnormal for the person,
>>> get it investigated! and soon, especially if the person has other
>>> risk factors such as older aged, high blood pressure, cardiac
>>> conditions, high cholesterol, smoking, drinking excessively,
>>> clotting disorders, etc, or previous 'odd or weird' short lived
>>> symptoms such as the innocuous ones above, or other more obvious
>>> ones
>>
>> If we take the factors you list into account, and given one can't
>> call in medical help for such things as sudden onset headache, (I
>> don't know about USA but certainly no Doctor here in UK would visit
>> for a headache) what checks should a non medical person do in such an
>> event?
>
> Occasionally you'll find a doctor who will come out for a home visit
> here in Oz (or at least, here in Adelaide, don't know about the other
> states)
>
> I DO know however that people here will call an emergency ambulance
> for much LESS than a headache, and they'll get sent one (people call
> for lost contact lens; a restless baby who won't go to sleep at 3am;
> an abrasion on their hand; to let their cat out (found that one out
> once we got there); to help them get into/out of bed/chair; etc etc.
> The paramedics will assess, and if they find anything suspicious,
> should transport the person to hospital. I assume the same would
> happen in the UK or USA?

I had a call from my friend T last week who told me this. Her mother
(88 and frail) had fallen outside her house. T couldn't lift her and
two men nearby were afraid to carry her up in case they hurt her. They
brought out a chair and she was liften on to it. T went into the house
and called the warden to come and help. She was off that day and the
person on the line said they were calling an ambulance since that was
policy. When the ambulance came they gave her a good telling off
saying it had not been necessary. T ask if they could take mother to
T's house and was told they were not a taxi service. They also said
they were reporting her. T's husband R, when he got home from work was
livid and called the ambulance service to complain. The complaint had
been put in against T that *she* had called out the ambulance to take
her mother to her home!!! So I leave you to guess what would happen if
you tried to call out medical staff for a headache!

>
> Often, people who are being treated for high blood pressure have their
> own home BP machine (or sphygmomanometer)...a common symptom during a
> stroke is finding a person's BP goes quite higher than normal.
>
> The affected person may not notice, but other people would notice
> things like slurred speech, or a facial droop on one side of their
> face (sometimes one side of the mouth droops or the eyelid), or they
> start dribbling from one side of their mouth, or they can't chew or
> swallow properly
>
> Just a few more things off the top of my head, that could be used in
> addition to the three outlines in the OP, and my previous answer.

Thank you

>> Occasionally you'll find a doctor who will come out for a home visit
>> here in Oz (or at least, here in Adelaide, don't know about the other
>> states)
>>
>> I DO know however that people here will call an emergency ambulance
>> for much LESS than a headache, and they'll get sent one (people call
>> for lost contact lens; a restless baby who won't go to sleep at 3am;
>> an abrasion on their hand; to let their cat out (found that one out
>> once we got there); to help them get into/out of bed/chair; etc etc.
>> The paramedics will assess, and if they find anything suspicious,
>> should transport the person to hospital. I assume the same would
>> happen in the UK or USA?
>
> I had a call from my friend T last week who told me this. Her mother
> (88 and frail) had fallen outside her house. T couldn't lift her and
> two men nearby were afraid to carry her up in case they hurt her. They
> brought out a chair and she was liften on to it. T went into the house
> and called the warden to come and help. She was off that day and the
> person on the line said they were calling an ambulance since that was
> policy. When the ambulance came they gave her a good telling off
> saying it had not been necessary. T ask if they could take mother to
> T's house and was told they were not a taxi service. They also said
> they were reporting her. T's husband R, when he got home from work was
> livid and called the ambulance service to complain. The complaint had
> been put in against T that *she* had called out the ambulance to take
> her mother to her home!!! So I leave you to guess what would happen if
> you tried to call out medical staff for a headache!
>
>>

OMG that's disgusting "service"!!

we do call outs for what is termed "lift only" cases, where a usually frail
or elderly person has lost their balance, tripped, fallen out of bed,
whatever, and can't get themselves up again...we get there, assess, and if
nothing's wrong, lift them back up to chair, bed whatever...it's part of the
service that's provided, and is given it's own code on the patient report
form

sometimes, if they're out and about, there's no-one to take them home and if
it's nearby, we'll do a "quickie" and take them home. We've even driven them
home in their own car when they've been a bit shook up but still OK and
insist on going home; the other paramedic follows behind them in the truck.
Otherwise we'll try to contact family or friends to pick them up, if the
trip would take us too far out of our area...not supposed to leave the area
uncovered

If I worked with someone like the above crew, I would be the one to report
them!

and yes, some doctors do come out for headaches...migraines...etc

hope your friend's mother is getting on better...

MG

Ophelia wrote:

>
> Thank you for sharing that Stan. It was very useful
>
>
Again I ask.. please trim up the extraneous extra stuff before your
replies.

"MG" > wrote in message
...
>
>
>>> MG...who is also in Oz :-)
>>>
>>
>>
>> I had noticed from your IP No that you were with Telstra (Bigpond) in
>> Australia !...From what part do you come from ??..I am from The Upper
>> North Shore in Sydney !!
>> --
>> Bigbazza (Barry)..Oz
>>
>
> am in lil ol' Adelaide...where, on the first day of summer, it is pouring
> with rain and damn cold! lol
>
>


Well...For the first day of summer here in lil' ol' Sydney Town...It has
been a day of mixed 'offerings'...It has been both 'cool' and Raining..and
has also been 'Hot' and 'Muggy' ... I have had the fan on for most of the
evening !...But yesterday..It rained and I had the gas heating on !...Most
unusual weather !... As a rule...I am a lover of cold weather and utterly
'detest' the extreme hot summers that we have !....My ancestors came out
from England (and 25% from Ireland) back in around 1809...I am sorry to say
that this individual has not changed his genetics in all that time !...I
never liked the hot ..humid weather that we have...GOD intended that this
bloke should still inhabit those small islands up north !!...If I had been
meant for these parts...He would have given me a much darker 'skin'...<g>
--
Bigbazza (Barry)..Oz

"MG" > wrote in message
...
> we do call outs for what is termed "lift only" cases, where a usually
> frail or elderly person has lost their balance, tripped, fallen out of
> bed, whatever, and can't get themselves up again...we get there,
> assess, and if nothing's wrong, lift them back up to chair, bed
> whatever...it's part of the service that's provided, and is given it's
> own code on the patient report form
>
> sometimes, if they're out and about, there's no-one to take them home
> and if it's nearby, we'll do a "quickie" and take them home. We've
> even driven them home in their own car when they've been a bit shook
> up but still OK and insist on going home; the other paramedic follows
> behind them in the truck. Otherwise we'll try to contact family or
> friends to pick them up, if the trip would take us too far out of our
> area...not supposed to leave the area uncovered
>
> If I worked with someone like the above crew, I would be the one to
> report them!
>
> and yes, some doctors do come out for headaches...migraines...etc
>
> hope your friend's mother is getting on better...

Thank you. T has her mother at T's own house and is taking care of her
there. Incidentally, it is very difficult to get a doctor out for a home
visit for any reason. We have to prove we can't move or get ourselves
to the doctor's surgery. UK is not a good place to be for the National
Health Service. I could go on at length but this is not the place.

Ophelia

"Bigbazza" > wrote in message
...
>
> "MG" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>>
>>>> MG...who is also in Oz :-)
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I had noticed from your IP No that you were with Telstra (Bigpond) in
>>> Australia !...From what part do you come from ??..I am from The Upper
>>> North Shore in Sydney !!
>>> --
>>> Bigbazza (Barry)..Oz
>>>
>>
>> am in lil ol' Adelaide...where, on the first day of summer, it is pouring
>> with rain and damn cold! lol
>>
>>
>
>
> Well...For the first day of summer here in lil' ol' Sydney Town...It has
> been a day of mixed 'offerings'...It has been both 'cool' and Raining..and
> has also been 'Hot' and 'Muggy' ... I have had the fan on for most of the
> evening !...But yesterday..It rained and I had the gas heating on !...Most
> unusual weather !... As a rule...I am a lover of cold weather and utterly
> 'detest' the extreme hot summers that we have !....My ancestors came out
> from England (and 25% from Ireland) back in around 1809...I am sorry to
> say that this individual has not changed his genetics in all that time
> !...I never liked the hot ..humid weather that we have...GOD intended that
> this bloke should still inhabit those small islands up north !!...If I had
> been meant for these parts...He would have given me a much darker
> 'skin'...<g>
> --
> Bigbazza (Barry)..Oz
>

lol Bazz I know what you mean...my rels all come from Europe as well,
though I must admit I really hate cold, wet, windy weather, probably cos
often I have to work in the damn stuff!

I also don't like humid weather...can cope reasonably with dry heat, but
humidity? forget it!

oh for lovely clear, warm days of 25 C (ie autumn in Adelaide <g>)

MG

"Ophelia" > wrote in message
.uk...
>
> "MG" > wrote in message
> ...
>> we do call outs for what is termed "lift only" cases, where a usually
>> frail or elderly person has lost their balance, tripped, fallen out of
>> bed, whatever, and can't get themselves up again...we get there,
>> assess, and if nothing's wrong, lift them back up to chair, bed
>> whatever...it's part of the service that's provided, and is given it's
>> own code on the patient report form
>>
>> sometimes, if they're out and about, there's no-one to take them home
>> and if it's nearby, we'll do a "quickie" and take them home. We've
>> even driven them home in their own car when they've been a bit shook
>> up but still OK and insist on going home; the other paramedic follows
>> behind them in the truck. Otherwise we'll try to contact family or
>> friends to pick them up, if the trip would take us too far out of our
>> area...not supposed to leave the area uncovered
>>
>> If I worked with someone like the above crew, I would be the one to
>> report them!
>>
>> and yes, some doctors do come out for headaches...migraines...etc
>>
>> hope your friend's mother is getting on better...
>
> Thank you. T has her mother at T's own house and is taking care of her
> there. Incidentally, it is very difficult to get a doctor out for a home
> visit for any reason. We have to prove we can't move or get ourselves
> to the doctor's surgery. UK is not a good place to be for the National
> Health Service. I could go on at length but this is not the place.
>
> Ophelia
>
>
My sister has just moved back here with her family, after living in the UK
for 8 years...and worked in the hospital system for the last few
years...she's told me a lot about the NHS <s>.

MG

Long story, but please bare with me....

On Thu, 01 Dec 2005 12:30:03 GMT, Ophelia wrote:

>
> "MG" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > "Ophelia" > wrote in message
> > . uk...
> >>
> >> "MG" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >>>> true Ophelia...and yes, other things may cause alarm, but sometimes
> >>>> the
> >>> onset of a stroke can be a simple as having a sudden onset headache
> >>> (how many of THOSE do we all have? lol), an episode of dizziness
> >>> (ditto) or some other fairly innocuous symptom, to more obvious ones
> >>> such as seizures, sudden paralysis, collapse, or other.
> >> >
> >>> I guess the moral of the story is...if it's abnormal for the person,
> >>> get it investigated!

YES!!!!!!!!
<snip>
> >>> clotting disorders, etc, or previous 'odd or weird' short lived
> >>> symptoms such as the innocuous ones above, or other more obvious
> >>> ones
> >>
>
>
> I had a call from my friend T last week who told me this. Her mother
> (88 and frail) had fallen outside her house. T couldn't lift her and
> two men nearby were afraid to carry her up in case they hurt her. They
> brought out a chair and she was liften on to it. T went into the house
> and called the warden to come and help. She was off that day and the
> person on the line said they were calling an ambulance since that was
> policy. When the ambulance came they gave her a good telling off
> saying it had not been necessary. T ask if they could take mother to
> T's house and was told they were not a taxi service. They also said
> they were reporting her. T's husband R, when he got home from work was
> livid and called the ambulance service to complain. The complaint had
> been put in against T that *she* had called out the ambulance to take
> her mother to her home!!! So I leave you to guess what would happen if
> you tried to call out medical staff for a headache!
>
Comment:
The moral of that story is absolutely NOT the norm in my part of the
world.

In my city, the fire department paramedics pick up people who have
fallen when others can't physically pick them up. You may not know
exactly why they fell, so calling the paramedics is considered doing
the right thing here.
> >
> >
Here's what's happening in my life right now:

My mother was admitted to the hospital Wednesday in the early AM. My
brother had checked on her a couple of times during the night and both
times found her in the bathroom, on the floor "flopping around"
(according to him). He asked her each time if she was ok and she said
"yes", so he put her to bed and she went back to sleep. I guess it
happened a third time, so he finally became concerned enough to take
her to the hospital (this isn't unusual.... people WANT to believe
everything is OK). They are out in the country, so IT is a long
distance and a big deal to get there.

She was given an MRI and EKG a couple of hours after being admitted.
Also, something was inserted that required 4 hours of lying flat after
it was taken out. She rested peacefully all night. The problem was
that she didn't wake up this morning as wasn't responding to pain. I
stayed at work thinking she was a goner and I would be going there on
Friday to deal with death.

The neurologist called me this evening to say that she was awake, but
had suffered a series of small strokes in several parts of her brain
(global: front, middle, back, left, right). It's called an anoxic
injury, which means it's caused by a lack of oxygen to the brain. The
reason it occurred is unknown at this time, but it could be as simple
as a couple of skipped heartbeats.

Mom is a cancer patient, but she also is at risk for blood clots. She
was taking Lovenox (which is injectable Cumadin), a state of the art
drug - so she was doing everything right. I needed to ask the doctor
if my brother had gotten her to the hospital the first time she fell
if the outcome would have been different. The doctor replied with an
unqualified NO. She said that sort of stroke could have happened in
the hospital and the results would have been the same.

OK... here is the information I hope you remember: I asked the doctor
why she would go to the bathroom so many times when she only goes on
an average of once a night (to my knowledge). The doctor told me that
strokes commonly cause *an urge to urinate*, which explains why she
was found in the bathroom every time.

So, if you have a loved one who is exhibiting signs of confusion etc.
AND has more frequent than normal urges to urinate, please take that
person to the hospital as soon as possible. Above all, DON'T ask them
multiple times if they are OK and accept it. Use your own judgment:
If it doesn't seem normal, it probably isn't - so let a doctor decide
if there is real a problem or not!
--

Practice safe eating. Always use condiments.

"sf" > wrote in message
...
>
> OK... here is the information I hope you remember: I asked the doctor
> why she would go to the bathroom so many times when she only goes on
> an average of once a night (to my knowledge). The doctor told me that
> strokes commonly cause *an urge to urinate*, which explains why she
> was found in the bathroom every time.

Thank you sf!
>
> So, if you have a loved one who is exhibiting signs of confusion etc.
> AND has more frequent than normal urges to urinate, please take that
> person to the hospital as soon as possible. Above all, DON'T ask them
> multiple times if they are OK and accept it. Use your own judgment:
> If it doesn't seem normal, it probably isn't - so let a doctor decide
> if there is real a problem or not!

I do hope your mum improves and can be comfortable

"sf" > wrote in message
...
> Long story, but please bare with me....
>
> On Thu, 01 Dec 2005 12:30:03 GMT, Ophelia wrote:
>
>>
>> "MG" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >
>> > "Ophelia" > wrote in message
>> > . uk...
>> >>
>> >> "MG" > wrote in message
>> >> ...
>> >>>> true Ophelia...and yes, other things may cause alarm, but sometimes
>> >>>> the
>> >>> onset of a stroke can be a simple as having a sudden onset headache
>> >>> (how many of THOSE do we all have? lol), an episode of dizziness
>> >>> (ditto) or some other fairly innocuous symptom, to more obvious ones
>> >>> such as seizures, sudden paralysis, collapse, or other.
>> >> >
>> >>> I guess the moral of the story is...if it's abnormal for the person,
>> >>> get it investigated!
>
> YES!!!!!!!!
> <snip>
>> >>> clotting disorders, etc, or previous 'odd or weird' short lived
>> >>> symptoms such as the innocuous ones above, or other more obvious
>> >>> ones
>> >>
>>
>>
>> I had a call from my friend T last week who told me this. Her mother
>> (88 and frail) had fallen outside her house. T couldn't lift her and
>> two men nearby were afraid to carry her up in case they hurt her. They
>> brought out a chair and she was liften on to it. T went into the house
>> and called the warden to come and help. She was off that day and the
>> person on the line said they were calling an ambulance since that was
>> policy. When the ambulance came they gave her a good telling off
>> saying it had not been necessary. T ask if they could take mother to
>> T's house and was told they were not a taxi service. They also said
>> they were reporting her. T's husband R, when he got home from work was
>> livid and called the ambulance service to complain. The complaint had
>> been put in against T that *she* had called out the ambulance to take
>> her mother to her home!!! So I leave you to guess what would happen if
>> you tried to call out medical staff for a headache!
>>
> Comment:
> The moral of that story is absolutely NOT the norm in my part of the
> world.
>
> In my city, the fire department paramedics pick up people who have
> fallen when others can't physically pick them up. You may not know
> exactly why they fell, so calling the paramedics is considered doing
> the right thing here.
>> >
>> >
> Here's what's happening in my life right now:
>
> My mother was admitted to the hospital Wednesday in the early AM. My
> brother had checked on her a couple of times during the night and both
> times found her in the bathroom, on the floor "flopping around"
> (according to him). He asked her each time if she was ok and she said
> "yes", so he put her to bed and she went back to sleep. I guess it
> happened a third time, so he finally became concerned enough to take
> her to the hospital (this isn't unusual.... people WANT to believe
> everything is OK). They are out in the country, so IT is a long
> distance and a big deal to get there.
>
> She was given an MRI and EKG a couple of hours after being admitted.
> Also, something was inserted that required 4 hours of lying flat after
> it was taken out. She rested peacefully all night. The problem was
> that she didn't wake up this morning as wasn't responding to pain. I
> stayed at work thinking she was a goner and I would be going there on
> Friday to deal with death.
>
> The neurologist called me this evening to say that she was awake, but
> had suffered a series of small strokes in several parts of her brain
> (global: front, middle, back, left, right). It's called an anoxic
> injury, which means it's caused by a lack of oxygen to the brain. The
> reason it occurred is unknown at this time, but it could be as simple
> as a couple of skipped heartbeats.
>
> Mom is a cancer patient, but she also is at risk for blood clots. She
> was taking Lovenox (which is injectable Cumadin), a state of the art
> drug - so she was doing everything right. I needed to ask the doctor
> if my brother had gotten her to the hospital the first time she fell
> if the outcome would have been different. The doctor replied with an
> unqualified NO. She said that sort of stroke could have happened in
> the hospital and the results would have been the same.
>
> OK... here is the information I hope you remember: I asked the doctor
> why she would go to the bathroom so many times when she only goes on
> an average of once a night (to my knowledge). The doctor told me that
> strokes commonly cause *an urge to urinate*, which explains why she
> was found in the bathroom every time.
>
> So, if you have a loved one who is exhibiting signs of confusion etc.
> AND has more frequent than normal urges to urinate, please take that
> person to the hospital as soon as possible. Above all, DON'T ask them
> multiple times if they are OK and accept it. Use your own judgment:
> If it doesn't seem normal, it probably isn't - so let a doctor decide
> if there is real a problem or not!

You've explained my f-i-l exactly; however, he hasn't been on the floor in
the bathroom yet. He has the urge about every 15 minutes each night, takes
coumadin, has beat 2 kinds of cancer in less than 2 years, usually confused.
But so far he has had no strokes - that we know of. He subscribes to a
life-line sort of thing that he wears at all times. Hopefully he can push
it if he needs to. I mention this as a future solution, but I'm sure that
someone will tell you about it. It could be a life-saver for your mother
and relieve a lot of worry and responsibility on the part of the caregivers
who are not always present. (Even though we are 400 miles away, he usually
gives us a call anytime anything is up. The highways were hot from our tires
the last few years.)

I hope your mother will be able to function well without a lot of
rehabilitation. My thoughts are with you.
My best,
Dee Dee

sf wrote:

> Here's what's happening in my life right now:
>
> She was given an MRI and EKG a couple of hours after being admitted.
> Also, something was inserted that required 4 hours of lying flat after
> it was taken out.

Possibly an lumbar puncture to test her cerebral spinal fluid. That
could rule out meningitis and the like which could also explain her
change of status.

She rested peacefully all night. The problem was
> that she didn't wake up this morning as wasn't responding to pain. I
> stayed at work thinking she was a goner and I would be going there on
> Friday to deal with death.

Not uncommon with strokes or brain damage
>
> The neurologist called me this evening to say that she was awake, but
> had suffered a series of small strokes in several parts of her brain
> (global: front, middle, back, left, right). It's called an anoxic
> injury, which means it's caused by a lack of oxygen to the brain. The
> reason it occurred is unknown at this time, but it could be as simple
> as a couple of skipped heartbeats.

anoxic brain injuries can happen during seizures or cardiopulmonary
arrest, obstruction... anything that interferes with blood carrying
oxygen getting to the brain. It does not take long, minutes, for the
damage to occur.
>
> Mom is a cancer patient, but she also is at risk for blood clots. She
> was taking Lovenox (which is injectable Cumadin),

Lovenox isn't Coumadin at all. It is a low molecular weigh heparin. And
it is quite a little miracle for people like your mom as they don't have
to have as frequent blood tests to monitor the effectiveness of therapy,
unlike the more commonly used type of Heparin. Lovenox can be given
easily at home, whereas Heprain isn't. Coumadin is an orally
administered blood thinner also, but it works on an entirely different
part of the clotting cascade, and it also requires lab tests also to
monitor for effectiveness.

a state of the art
> drug - so she was doing everything right. I needed to ask the doctor
> if my brother had gotten her to the hospital the first time she fell
> if the outcome would have been different. The doctor replied with an
> unqualified NO. She said that sort of stroke could have happened in
> the hospital and the results would have been the same.
>
It certainly does sound like she has been a risk for a while.

> OK... here is the information I hope you remember: I asked the doctor
> why she would go to the bathroom so many times when she only goes on
> an average of once a night (to my knowledge). The doctor told me that
> strokes commonly cause *an urge to urinate*, which explains why she
> was found in the bathroom every time.

I've never heard of this before and I deal with fresh stroke patients
all the time? They certainly can be "confused" and that confusion might
present as confusion about the feeling like one needs to piddle.
>
> So, if you have a loved one who is exhibiting signs of confusion etc.
> AND has more frequent than normal urges to urinate, please take that
> person to the hospital as soon as possible. Above all, DON'T ask them
> multiple times if they are OK and accept it. Use your own judgment:
> If it doesn't seem normal, it probably isn't - so let a doctor decide
> if there is real a problem or not!

Elderly, women in particular, often experience urinary tract infections.
They can in fact be quite subtle, and found by accident when looking at
other problems. Confusion would get a work up for a UTI right off too.

I'm sorry about your mother and hope she is as comfortable as can be.
Take care of yourself also during these stressful times. Keep me posted
about her condition.

Dee Randall wrote:

> You've explained my f-i-l exactly; however, he hasn't been on the floor in
> the bathroom yet. He has the urge about every 15 minutes each night, takes
> coumadin, has beat 2 kinds of cancer in less than 2 years, usually confused.
> But so far he has had no strokes - that we know of.

Elderly men also have prostate issues that complicate life and can cause
difficulty voiding, as well as renal and cardiac issues. Some people
have better renal perfusion (blood flow to the kidney) during the night
while laying down and resting, which in turn can cause better unine
production. It might be nothing more than that, y'know? Or it could be
a urinary tract infection?
I don't want to think anyone will over react and assume any frequent
urination means someone is working on a stoke.

On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 10:06:00 -0500, Goomba38 >
wrote:

>I don't want to think anyone will over react and assume any frequent
>urination means someone is working on a stoke.

Using my family as the bellweather, because they don't resort to
emergency measures - even when it's obvious: I want people to
recognize and heed the warning signs.

On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 09:54:31 -0500, Goomba38 >
wrote:

>sf wrote:
>>
>> Mom is a cancer patient, but she also is at risk for blood clots. She
>> was taking Lovenox (which is injectable Cumadin),
>
>Lovenox isn't Coumadin at all. It is a low molecular weigh heparin.

She is on a Heparin on a drip at the moment.

I'd never heard of Lovenox until last night and the neurologist was
the one who gave me the relationship, so don't shoot the messenger.


> And
>it is quite a little miracle for people like your mom as they don't have
>to have as frequent blood tests to monitor the effectiveness of therapy,
>unlike the more commonly used type of Heparin. Lovenox can be given
>easily at home,

I didn't know she injected any drug until I got here (Oregon) today.

> whereas Heprain isn't. Coumadin is an orally
>administered blood thinner also, but it works on an entirely different
>part of the clotting cascade, and it also requires lab tests also to
>monitor for effectiveness.
>
> a state of the art
>> drug - so she was doing everything right. I needed to ask the doctor
>> if my brother had gotten her to the hospital the first time she fell
>> if the outcome would have been different. The doctor replied with an
>> unqualified NO. She said that sort of stroke could have happened in
>> the hospital and the results would have been the same.
>>
>It certainly does sound like she has been a risk for a while.

Apparently, so. I'm beginning to think it's genetic and I will
eventually be at risk too. (her brother, my uncle, died of a suspected
blod clot).
>
>> OK... here is the information I hope you remember: I asked the doctor
>> why she would go to the bathroom so many times when she only goes on
>> an average of once a night (to my knowledge). The doctor told me that
>> strokes commonly cause *an urge to urinate*, which explains why she
>> was found in the bathroom every time.
>
>I've never heard of this before and I deal with fresh stroke patients
>all the time? They certainly can be "confused" and that confusion might
>present as confusion about the feeling like one needs to piddle.
>
I talked directly with the neurologist and it is apparently a
symptom...a reverse *something* - I was stressed at the time and I
don't remember what she said. I just remember that she sounded
surprised that I asked about a connection and she replied
affirmatively.
>>
>> So, if you have a loved one who is exhibiting signs of confusion etc.
>> AND has more frequent than normal urges to urinate, please take that
>> person to the hospital as soon as possible. Above all, DON'T ask them
>> multiple times if they are OK and accept it. Use your own judgment:
>> If it doesn't seem normal, it probably isn't - so let a doctor decide
>> if there is real a problem or not!
>
>Elderly, women in particular, often experience urinary tract infections.
>They can in fact be quite subtle, and found by accident when looking at
>other problems. Confusion would get a work up for a UTI right off too.
>
Thanks for the insight, but that one isn't on the radar screen. Heart
attacks and blod clots are what they are talking about right now.

>I'm sorry about your mother and hope she is as comfortable as can be.
>Take care of yourself also during these stressful times. Keep me posted
>about her condition.

Thanks.. let's talk via rfc chat sometime in the future. I'll be
there later tonight.

http://www.penguinpowered.ca/~vexorg...d.cooking.html

"sf" <see_real_ address_in_return_reply> wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 10:06:00 -0500, Goomba38 >
> wrote:
>
>>I don't want to think anyone will over react and assume any frequent
>>urination means someone is working on a stoke.
>
> Using my family as the bellweather, because they don't resort to
> emergency measures - even when it's obvious: I want people to
> recognize and heed the warning signs.

and I for one, am very grateful that you did.

sf wrote:
> On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 10:06:00 -0500, Goomba38 >
> wrote:
>
>
>>I don't want to think anyone will over react and assume any frequent
>>urination means someone is working on a stoke.
>
>
> Using my family as the bellweather, because they don't resort to
> emergency measures - even when it's obvious: I want people to
> recognize and heed the warning signs.

That's what I was trying to tell you. I even spoke to the folks at the
Stroke Center last night and relayed this topic. They agreed with what I
said- no one has heard of the idea that impending stroke patients need
to urinate any more than anyone else. It is a different problem.
Goomba

On Sat, 03 Dec 2005 09:06:34 -0500, Goomba38 >
wrote:

>I even spoke to the folks at the
>Stroke Center last night and relayed this topic. They agreed with what I
>said- no one has heard of the idea that impending stroke patients need
>to urinate any more than anyone else. It is a different problem.

More likely to be diabetes.

Carol
--

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/head_trollop/my_photos

Damsel in dis Dress wrote:

> On Sat, 03 Dec 2005 09:06:34 -0500, Goomba38 >
> wrote:
>
>
>>I even spoke to the folks at the
>>Stroke Center last night and relayed this topic. They agreed with what I
>>said- no one has heard of the idea that impending stroke patients need
>>to urinate any more than anyone else. It is a different problem.
>
>
> More likely to be diabetes.
>
> Carol

yes,hyperglycemia (often to critically high levels) can often be
accompanied by polyuria as the body tries to rid itself of the extra
sugar. Diabetes does increase you risks for vascular problems, but also
the type of patient usually experiencing strokes are also the old men
with faulty prostate problems. Or the little old ladies with UTI's.
There are just enough variables to make the idea of the frequent
urination=impending stroke just plain fooey.

Goomba38 wrote:
> Damsel in dis Dress wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 03 Dec 2005 09:06:34 -0500, Goomba38 >
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I even spoke to the folks at the Stroke Center last night and relayed
>>> this topic. They agreed with what I said- no one has heard of the
>>> idea that impending stroke patients need to urinate any more than
>>> anyone else. It is a different problem.
>>
>>
>>
>> More likely to be diabetes.
>>
>> Carol
>
>
> yes,hyperglycemia (often to critically high levels) can often be
> accompanied by polyuria as the body tries to rid itself of the extra
> sugar. Diabetes does increase you risks for vascular problems, but also
> the type of patient usually experiencing strokes are also the old men
> with faulty prostate problems. Or the little old ladies with UTI's.
> There are just enough variables to make the idea of the frequent
> urination=impending stroke just plain fooey.

Arthur Agatston of the South Beach Diet writes that people who come in
with heart attacks etc often have (undiagnosed ) (pre)diabetes. I don't
know if this is true. But if strokes and heart attacks are both vascular
problems (I'm not sure), then they may both have links to diabetes. What
do you think?