Hi, all.
Daily reader of this NG, have learned a lot from pro's and newbies. Here
is my current situation:
(well, first, this is my 8th wine kit, and I've also done many Jack
Keller based-recipes as well as the kits, have bottled over 400 bottles,
so I'm kinda new, but not first time at this)

Maybe you get what you pay for... I purchased the above wine kit for a
real bargain, compared to WinExpert kits, this was real cheap. As I
moved this kit along, I got to the final stage - clarifying, and well,
it's not clarifying. The instructions says, "filter it", which I don't
have a filter machine and don't plan on purchasing one for this kit. I
experimented with a coffee filter - no change to the clarity. I've never
had a wine not clear. It makes 23L (6 gallons), so here is what I've
done, any other suggestions are welcome!

I decided to be patient and let it sit longer in the carboy (this kit is
a 4 week kit and ready to drink when bottled, they say).

However, the kit didn't fill my carboy - yes, I followed all
instructions to the letter! - , so I split into two 3 gallon carboys and
topped up one with 4 1/2 bottles of Pinot Noir (Rex Goliath 47 Pound
Rooster, since I like this)My rationale was, experiment with one as is,
and one topped up with good wine. That means one 3 gallon carboy is
almost 30% added wine. So now I have both ready for aging.

I added 1/4 Tsp of Potassium Meta, and 1 Tsp of Carbonite to each. Mixed
both well and added airlock to each. My plan is to let it sit another
month and see if it has cleared up. If not, another month of wait. Then
decide if another clearing agent might help.

Anyone with experience on this wine kit? I was amazed how the
instructions were lacking much info, luckily I have done many kits, so
checked WinExpert instructions to ensure I was doing it right.

Ken Ridge Connoisseur Pinot Noir - out of Canada. Did I get what I paid
for? smile. I think it was $47 US.

DAve

Did you follow the directions *exactly*? I've got a WineXpert pinot
going -- at what would normally be the second racking, it says to add
sulfite/sorbate & fining agent, stirring up sediment, but DO NOT rack.
According to directions this is required for the wine to clear.

My usual advice is to try pectic enzyme -- if it doesn't help it
doesn't hurt. Also, a recent post suggested egg whites for fining red
wines. That would be my suggestion in another month.

Bryan


On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 20:53:51 -0500, Dave Allison
> wrote:

>Hi, all.
>Daily reader of this NG, have learned a lot from pro's and newbies. Here
>is my current situation:
>(well, first, this is my 8th wine kit, and I've also done many Jack
>Keller based-recipes as well as the kits, have bottled over 400 bottles,
>so I'm kinda new, but not first time at this)
>
>Maybe you get what you pay for... I purchased the above wine kit for a
>real bargain, compared to WinExpert kits, this was real cheap. As I
>moved this kit along, I got to the final stage - clarifying, and well,
>it's not clarifying. The instructions says, "filter it", which I don't
>have a filter machine and don't plan on purchasing one for this kit. I
>experimented with a coffee filter - no change to the clarity. I've never
>had a wine not clear. It makes 23L (6 gallons), so here is what I've
>done, any other suggestions are welcome!
>
>I decided to be patient and let it sit longer in the carboy (this kit is
>a 4 week kit and ready to drink when bottled, they say).
>
>However, the kit didn't fill my carboy - yes, I followed all
>instructions to the letter! - , so I split into two 3 gallon carboys and
>topped up one with 4 1/2 bottles of Pinot Noir (Rex Goliath 47 Pound
>Rooster, since I like this)My rationale was, experiment with one as is,
>and one topped up with good wine. That means one 3 gallon carboy is
>almost 30% added wine. So now I have both ready for aging.
>
>I added 1/4 Tsp of Potassium Meta, and 1 Tsp of Carbonite to each. Mixed
>both well and added airlock to each. My plan is to let it sit another
>month and see if it has cleared up. If not, another month of wait. Then
>decide if another clearing agent might help.
>
>Anyone with experience on this wine kit? I was amazed how the
>instructions were lacking much info, luckily I have done many kits, so
>checked WinExpert instructions to ensure I was doing it right.
>
>Ken Ridge Connoisseur Pinot Noir - out of Canada. Did I get what I paid
>for? smile. I think it was $47 US.
>
>DAve

Dave I run a small FOP (Ferment on Premises) and we sell Vineco kits
Thus we make California Connoisseur kits all the time. However, Pinot
Noir is not that popular in this area, and we have not been carrying
the Pinot Noir.

First the company name is Vineco. The brand is California
Connoisseur. Ken Ridge is another brand from Vineco.

Second Winexpert is also a Canadian company. Both Vineco and
Winexpert are owned by the same company Andres Wines. If fact all
major kit brands are Canadian including Spagnols and Cellar Craft.

The California Connoisseur kits are roughly the same as Winexpert's
Vintners Reserve kits. If you are comparing to WE's Selection kits,
yes they are a lot cheaper.

We don't have problems making Calif Conn kits. The instructions seem
clear to me, but then I make Vineco kits all the time. What exactly
was unclear or lacking? BTW, WE instructions are different in a few
spots, so may not be appropriate for this kit.

If the kit didn't fit your carboy either you didn't add enough water
to the primary (15.5 litres needed) or your carboy is too large.

Did you add the bentonite at the beginning? Did you thoroughly degas
the wine before adding the isinglass clearing agent?

Steve

On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 20:53:51 -0500, Dave Allison
> wrote:

>Hi, all.
>Daily reader of this NG, have learned a lot from pro's and newbies. Here
>is my current situation:
>(well, first, this is my 8th wine kit, and I've also done many Jack
>Keller based-recipes as well as the kits, have bottled over 400 bottles,
>so I'm kinda new, but not first time at this)
>
>Maybe you get what you pay for... I purchased the above wine kit for a
>real bargain, compared to WinExpert kits, this was real cheap. As I
>moved this kit along, I got to the final stage - clarifying, and well,
>it's not clarifying. The instructions says, "filter it", which I don't
>have a filter machine and don't plan on purchasing one for this kit. I
>experimented with a coffee filter - no change to the clarity. I've never
>had a wine not clear. It makes 23L (6 gallons), so here is what I've
>done, any other suggestions are welcome!
>
>I decided to be patient and let it sit longer in the carboy (this kit is
>a 4 week kit and ready to drink when bottled, they say).
>
>However, the kit didn't fill my carboy - yes, I followed all
>instructions to the letter! - , so I split into two 3 gallon carboys and
>topped up one with 4 1/2 bottles of Pinot Noir (Rex Goliath 47 Pound
>Rooster, since I like this)My rationale was, experiment with one as is,
>and one topped up with good wine. That means one 3 gallon carboy is
>almost 30% added wine. So now I have both ready for aging.
>
>I added 1/4 Tsp of Potassium Meta, and 1 Tsp of Carbonite to each. Mixed
>both well and added airlock to each. My plan is to let it sit another
>month and see if it has cleared up. If not, another month of wait. Then
>decide if another clearing agent might help.
>
>Anyone with experience on this wine kit? I was amazed how the
>instructions were lacking much info, luckily I have done many kits, so
>checked WinExpert instructions to ensure I was doing it right.
>
>Ken Ridge Connoisseur Pinot Noir - out of Canada. Did I get what I paid
>for? smile. I think it was $47 US.
>
>DAve

Thanks for the company & brand name corrections, If I can't get the
names right, how could I have followed instructions? smile. haha. I see
now the instruction sheet was just listing the brands of Vineco, and
KenRidge is one of them. So this is a Vineco California Connoisseur
Pinot Noir wine kit.

I have gone back and re-walked through my notes and realize some steps
that may have caused my problem: (no surprise, ugh?)

1. I use Better Bottles (plastic) and when I measured up 6 gallons long
ago, it was just to the bottom of the beginning of the narrowing neck
(down a full 6 inches from the top of the bottle), so when instructed to
fill to 6 gallons, I did, leaving a lot of open space, thinking I would
top it up later, but the instructions never had me top up later. So when
I thought about letting it clear itself for another month, I knew I
needed to "top up" to get rid of the space.

2. NOW I remember what I did different (blush, this is embarrassing), to
add more "jammy-ness" to the Pinot Noir, I had added 1 oz of dried
elderberries during primary fermentation. Now this makes sense that I
did not clear, as I did not add anything to break it down, like pectic
enzyme. Plus I left the kit instructions and went out on my own, thus I
can't complain.

So, I humbly apologize for bashing the kit for being cheap. sigh. Your
other suggestions: I did add Bentonite at the beginning and mixed it in
well. Also I did degas with an electric drill attachment, over a 3 day
period (twice a day) as the instructions read.

I assume at this point, after Sorbate and Fining agent added, it is too
late for pectic enzyme to be added. So I'm set to let it sit and clear,
hopefully. Otherwise, I know I did it to myself!

Any other suggestions, are welcome.

thanks again for the two inputs I received so far.
humbled,
DAve

Steve wrote:
> Dave I run a small FOP (Ferment on Premises) and we sell Vineco kits
> Thus we make California Connoisseur kits all the time. However, Pinot
> Noir is not that popular in this area, and we have not been carrying
> the Pinot Noir.
>
> First the company name is Vineco. The brand is California
> Connoisseur. Ken Ridge is another brand from Vineco.
>
> Second Winexpert is also a Canadian company. Both Vineco and
> Winexpert are owned by the same company Andres Wines. If fact all
> major kit brands are Canadian including Spagnols and Cellar Craft.
>
> The California Connoisseur kits are roughly the same as Winexpert's
> Vintners Reserve kits. If you are comparing to WE's Selection kits,
> yes they are a lot cheaper.
>
> We don't have problems making Calif Conn kits. The instructions seem
> clear to me, but then I make Vineco kits all the time. What exactly
> was unclear or lacking? BTW, WE instructions are different in a few
> spots, so may not be appropriate for this kit.
>
> If the kit didn't fit your carboy either you didn't add enough water
> to the primary (15.5 litres needed) or your carboy is too large.
>
> Did you add the bentonite at the beginning? Did you thoroughly degas
> the wine before adding the isinglass clearing agent?
>
> Steve
>
> On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 20:53:51 -0500, Dave Allison
> > wrote:
>
>> Hi, all.
>> Daily reader of this NG, have learned a lot from pro's and newbies. Here
>> is my current situation:
>> (well, first, this is my 8th wine kit, and I've also done many Jack
>> Keller based-recipes as well as the kits, have bottled over 400 bottles,
>> so I'm kinda new, but not first time at this)
>>
>> Maybe you get what you pay for... I purchased the above wine kit for a
>> real bargain, compared to WinExpert kits, this was real cheap. As I
>> moved this kit along, I got to the final stage - clarifying, and well,
>> it's not clarifying. The instructions says, "filter it", which I don't
>> have a filter machine and don't plan on purchasing one for this kit. I
>> experimented with a coffee filter - no change to the clarity. I've never
>> had a wine not clear. It makes 23L (6 gallons), so here is what I've
>> done, any other suggestions are welcome!
>>
>> I decided to be patient and let it sit longer in the carboy (this kit is
>> a 4 week kit and ready to drink when bottled, they say).
>>
>> However, the kit didn't fill my carboy - yes, I followed all
>> instructions to the letter! - , so I split into two 3 gallon carboys and
>> topped up one with 4 1/2 bottles of Pinot Noir (Rex Goliath 47 Pound
>> Rooster, since I like this)My rationale was, experiment with one as is,
>> and one topped up with good wine. That means one 3 gallon carboy is
>> almost 30% added wine. So now I have both ready for aging.
>>
>> I added 1/4 Tsp of Potassium Meta, and 1 Tsp of Carbonite to each. Mixed
>> both well and added airlock to each. My plan is to let it sit another
>> month and see if it has cleared up. If not, another month of wait. Then
>> decide if another clearing agent might help.
>>
>> Anyone with experience on this wine kit? I was amazed how the
>> instructions were lacking much info, luckily I have done many kits, so
>> checked WinExpert instructions to ensure I was doing it right.
>>
>> Ken Ridge Connoisseur Pinot Noir - out of Canada. Did I get what I paid
>> for? smile. I think it was $47 US.
>>
>> DAve
>

Thanks, Byran for the input. I think pectic enzyme is the answer, see my
other posting where I explain my errors. sigh.
Do you think I could add it now even after Sorbate and Fining Agent is
in the wine? hmm?
DAve

Jake Speed wrote:
> Did you follow the directions *exactly*? I've got a WineXpert pinot
> going -- at what would normally be the second racking, it says to add
> sulfite/sorbate & fining agent, stirring up sediment, but DO NOT rack.
> According to directions this is required for the wine to clear.
>
> My usual advice is to try pectic enzyme -- if it doesn't help it
> doesn't hurt. Also, a recent post suggested egg whites for fining red
> wines. That would be my suggestion in another month.
>
> Bryan
>
>
> On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 20:53:51 -0500, Dave Allison
> > wrote:
>
>> Hi, all.
>> Daily reader of this NG, have learned a lot from pro's and newbies. Here
>> is my current situation:
>> (well, first, this is my 8th wine kit, and I've also done many Jack
>> Keller based-recipes as well as the kits, have bottled over 400 bottles,
>> so I'm kinda new, but not first time at this)
>>
>> Maybe you get what you pay for... I purchased the above wine kit for a
>> real bargain, compared to WinExpert kits, this was real cheap. As I
>> moved this kit along, I got to the final stage - clarifying, and well,
>> it's not clarifying. The instructions says, "filter it", which I don't
>> have a filter machine and don't plan on purchasing one for this kit. I
>> experimented with a coffee filter - no change to the clarity. I've never
>> had a wine not clear. It makes 23L (6 gallons), so here is what I've
>> done, any other suggestions are welcome!
>>
>> I decided to be patient and let it sit longer in the carboy (this kit is
>> a 4 week kit and ready to drink when bottled, they say).
>>
>> However, the kit didn't fill my carboy - yes, I followed all
>> instructions to the letter! - , so I split into two 3 gallon carboys and
>> topped up one with 4 1/2 bottles of Pinot Noir (Rex Goliath 47 Pound
>> Rooster, since I like this)My rationale was, experiment with one as is,
>> and one topped up with good wine. That means one 3 gallon carboy is
>> almost 30% added wine. So now I have both ready for aging.
>>
>> I added 1/4 Tsp of Potassium Meta, and 1 Tsp of Carbonite to each. Mixed
>> both well and added airlock to each. My plan is to let it sit another
>> month and see if it has cleared up. If not, another month of wait. Then
>> decide if another clearing agent might help.
>>
>> Anyone with experience on this wine kit? I was amazed how the
>> instructions were lacking much info, luckily I have done many kits, so
>> checked WinExpert instructions to ensure I was doing it right.
>>
>> Ken Ridge Connoisseur Pinot Noir - out of Canada. Did I get what I paid
>> for? smile. I think it was $47 US.
>>
>> DAve

Dave,

There should be no problem added pectic enzyme now. You will need to
add another fining agent -- I'd give the pectic a week and then a
fining agent. The first racking from primary to secondary is time
(and SG) dependent but subsequent rackings plus bottling are not
negatively affected by waiting longer.

If you were sweetening the wine I'd be concerned about additional
sorbate -- I've no experience with high dosages and can't recall
anything I've read of it. But since it's a pinot noir I assume you're
finishing dry. I suspect the kits add it just to cover for people who
don't let the wine ferment completely.

Good luck!

Bryan


On Thu, 09 Nov 2006 09:00:43 -0500, Dave Allison
> wrote:

>Thanks, Byran for the input. I think pectic enzyme is the answer, see my
>other posting where I explain my errors. sigh.
>Do you think I could add it now even after Sorbate and Fining Agent is
>in the wine? hmm?
>DAve
>
>Jake Speed wrote:
>> Did you follow the directions *exactly*? I've got a WineXpert pinot
>> going -- at what would normally be the second racking, it says to add
>> sulfite/sorbate & fining agent, stirring up sediment, but DO NOT rack.
>> According to directions this is required for the wine to clear.
>>
>> My usual advice is to try pectic enzyme -- if it doesn't help it
>> doesn't hurt. Also, a recent post suggested egg whites for fining red
>> wines. That would be my suggestion in another month.
>>
>> Bryan
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 20:53:51 -0500, Dave Allison
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> Hi, all.
>>> Daily reader of this NG, have learned a lot from pro's and newbies. Here
>>> is my current situation:
>>> (well, first, this is my 8th wine kit, and I've also done many Jack
>>> Keller based-recipes as well as the kits, have bottled over 400 bottles,
>>> so I'm kinda new, but not first time at this)
>>>
>>> Maybe you get what you pay for... I purchased the above wine kit for a
>>> real bargain, compared to WinExpert kits, this was real cheap. As I
>>> moved this kit along, I got to the final stage - clarifying, and well,
>>> it's not clarifying. The instructions says, "filter it", which I don't
>>> have a filter machine and don't plan on purchasing one for this kit. I
>>> experimented with a coffee filter - no change to the clarity. I've never
>>> had a wine not clear. It makes 23L (6 gallons), so here is what I've
>>> done, any other suggestions are welcome!
>>>
>>> I decided to be patient and let it sit longer in the carboy (this kit is
>>> a 4 week kit and ready to drink when bottled, they say).
>>>
>>> However, the kit didn't fill my carboy - yes, I followed all
>>> instructions to the letter! - , so I split into two 3 gallon carboys and
>>> topped up one with 4 1/2 bottles of Pinot Noir (Rex Goliath 47 Pound
>>> Rooster, since I like this)My rationale was, experiment with one as is,
>>> and one topped up with good wine. That means one 3 gallon carboy is
>>> almost 30% added wine. So now I have both ready for aging.
>>>
>>> I added 1/4 Tsp of Potassium Meta, and 1 Tsp of Carbonite to each. Mixed
>>> both well and added airlock to each. My plan is to let it sit another
>>> month and see if it has cleared up. If not, another month of wait. Then
>>> decide if another clearing agent might help.
>>>
>>> Anyone with experience on this wine kit? I was amazed how the
>>> instructions were lacking much info, luckily I have done many kits, so
>>> checked WinExpert instructions to ensure I was doing it right.
>>>
>>> Ken Ridge Connoisseur Pinot Noir - out of Canada. Did I get what I paid
>>> for? smile. I think it was $47 US.
>>>
>>> DAve

Dave,

I've replied elsewhere in this thread that you can still add pectic
enzyme, but am repeating here to make sure you get the info.

Adding the dried elderberries changes the equation, but nothing that
isn't fixable. As long as the wine hasn't spoiled due to oxidation or
a bacterial infection, it's fixable. [I'm sure someone can find a
counter example to that, but it's 98% correct.]

With kits, being an experienced wine maker is a disadvantage. If you
know what you're doing with fresh fruit, you'll try to apply that
knowledge to the kits. With kits, FOLLOW THE DIRECTIONS.

And yes -- I found *that* lesson out the hard way. But the best
learned lessons are typically the most painful. Nature's way of
reinforcing the message ...

Bryan



On Thu, 09 Nov 2006 08:58:58 -0500, Dave Allison
> wrote:

>Thanks for the company & brand name corrections, If I can't get the
>names right, how could I have followed instructions? smile. haha. I see
>now the instruction sheet was just listing the brands of Vineco, and
>KenRidge is one of them. So this is a Vineco California Connoisseur
>Pinot Noir wine kit.
>
>I have gone back and re-walked through my notes and realize some steps
>that may have caused my problem: (no surprise, ugh?)
>
>1. I use Better Bottles (plastic) and when I measured up 6 gallons long
>ago, it was just to the bottom of the beginning of the narrowing neck
>(down a full 6 inches from the top of the bottle), so when instructed to
>fill to 6 gallons, I did, leaving a lot of open space, thinking I would
>top it up later, but the instructions never had me top up later. So when
>I thought about letting it clear itself for another month, I knew I
>needed to "top up" to get rid of the space.
>
>2. NOW I remember what I did different (blush, this is embarrassing), to
>add more "jammy-ness" to the Pinot Noir, I had added 1 oz of dried
>elderberries during primary fermentation. Now this makes sense that I
>did not clear, as I did not add anything to break it down, like pectic
>enzyme. Plus I left the kit instructions and went out on my own, thus I
>can't complain.
>
>So, I humbly apologize for bashing the kit for being cheap. sigh. Your
>other suggestions: I did add Bentonite at the beginning and mixed it in
>well. Also I did degas with an electric drill attachment, over a 3 day
>period (twice a day) as the instructions read.
>
>I assume at this point, after Sorbate and Fining agent added, it is too
>late for pectic enzyme to be added. So I'm set to let it sit and clear,
>hopefully. Otherwise, I know I did it to myself!
>
>Any other suggestions, are welcome.
>
>thanks again for the two inputs I received so far.
>humbled,
>DAve
>
>Steve wrote:
>> Dave I run a small FOP (Ferment on Premises) and we sell Vineco kits
>> Thus we make California Connoisseur kits all the time. However, Pinot
>> Noir is not that popular in this area, and we have not been carrying
>> the Pinot Noir.
>>
>> First the company name is Vineco. The brand is California
>> Connoisseur. Ken Ridge is another brand from Vineco.
>>
>> Second Winexpert is also a Canadian company. Both Vineco and
>> Winexpert are owned by the same company Andres Wines. If fact all
>> major kit brands are Canadian including Spagnols and Cellar Craft.
>>
>> The California Connoisseur kits are roughly the same as Winexpert's
>> Vintners Reserve kits. If you are comparing to WE's Selection kits,
>> yes they are a lot cheaper.
>>
>> We don't have problems making Calif Conn kits. The instructions seem
>> clear to me, but then I make Vineco kits all the time. What exactly
>> was unclear or lacking? BTW, WE instructions are different in a few
>> spots, so may not be appropriate for this kit.
>>
>> If the kit didn't fit your carboy either you didn't add enough water
>> to the primary (15.5 litres needed) or your carboy is too large.
>>
>> Did you add the bentonite at the beginning? Did you thoroughly degas
>> the wine before adding the isinglass clearing agent?
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 20:53:51 -0500, Dave Allison
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> Hi, all.
>>> Daily reader of this NG, have learned a lot from pro's and newbies. Here
>>> is my current situation:
>>> (well, first, this is my 8th wine kit, and I've also done many Jack
>>> Keller based-recipes as well as the kits, have bottled over 400 bottles,
>>> so I'm kinda new, but not first time at this)
>>>
>>> Maybe you get what you pay for... I purchased the above wine kit for a
>>> real bargain, compared to WinExpert kits, this was real cheap. As I
>>> moved this kit along, I got to the final stage - clarifying, and well,
>>> it's not clarifying. The instructions says, "filter it", which I don't
>>> have a filter machine and don't plan on purchasing one for this kit. I
>>> experimented with a coffee filter - no change to the clarity. I've never
>>> had a wine not clear. It makes 23L (6 gallons), so here is what I've
>>> done, any other suggestions are welcome!
>>>
>>> I decided to be patient and let it sit longer in the carboy (this kit is
>>> a 4 week kit and ready to drink when bottled, they say).
>>>
>>> However, the kit didn't fill my carboy - yes, I followed all
>>> instructions to the letter! - , so I split into two 3 gallon carboys and
>>> topped up one with 4 1/2 bottles of Pinot Noir (Rex Goliath 47 Pound
>>> Rooster, since I like this)My rationale was, experiment with one as is,
>>> and one topped up with good wine. That means one 3 gallon carboy is
>>> almost 30% added wine. So now I have both ready for aging.
>>>
>>> I added 1/4 Tsp of Potassium Meta, and 1 Tsp of Carbonite to each. Mixed
>>> both well and added airlock to each. My plan is to let it sit another
>>> month and see if it has cleared up. If not, another month of wait. Then
>>> decide if another clearing agent might help.
>>>
>>> Anyone with experience on this wine kit? I was amazed how the
>>> instructions were lacking much info, luckily I have done many kits, so
>>> checked WinExpert instructions to ensure I was doing it right.
>>>
>>> Ken Ridge Connoisseur Pinot Noir - out of Canada. Did I get what I paid
>>> for? smile. I think it was $47 US.
>>>
>>> DAve
>>

Bryan,
Oh, wonderful news. thanks for the reply. I will see how this works.
Thanks for replying. My SG is .992, in fact a little less, so it's dry.
(started at 1.104)
This is good news, I'll give it a try.
DAve

Jake Speed wrote:
> Dave,
>
> There should be no problem added pectic enzyme now. You will need to
> add another fining agent -- I'd give the pectic a week and then a
> fining agent. The first racking from primary to secondary is time
> (and SG) dependent but subsequent rackings plus bottling are not
> negatively affected by waiting longer.
>
> If you were sweetening the wine I'd be concerned about additional
> sorbate -- I've no experience with high dosages and can't recall
> anything I've read of it. But since it's a pinot noir I assume you're
> finishing dry. I suspect the kits add it just to cover for people who
> don't let the wine ferment completely.
>
> Good luck!
>
> Bryan
>
>
> On Thu, 09 Nov 2006 09:00:43 -0500, Dave Allison
> > wrote:
>
>> Thanks, Byran for the input. I think pectic enzyme is the answer, see my
>> other posting where I explain my errors. sigh.
>> Do you think I could add it now even after Sorbate and Fining Agent is
>> in the wine? hmm?
>> DAve
>>
>> Jake Speed wrote:
>>> Did you follow the directions *exactly*? I've got a WineXpert pinot
>>> going -- at what would normally be the second racking, it says to add
>>> sulfite/sorbate & fining agent, stirring up sediment, but DO NOT rack.
>>> According to directions this is required for the wine to clear.
>>>
>>> My usual advice is to try pectic enzyme -- if it doesn't help it
>>> doesn't hurt. Also, a recent post suggested egg whites for fining red
>>> wines. That would be my suggestion in another month.
>>>
>>> Bryan
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, 08 Nov 2006 20:53:51 -0500, Dave Allison
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi, all.
>>>> Daily reader of this NG, have learned a lot from pro's and newbies. Here
>>>> is my current situation:
>>>> (well, first, this is my 8th wine kit, and I've also done many Jack
>>>> Keller based-recipes as well as the kits, have bottled over 400 bottles,
>>>> so I'm kinda new, but not first time at this)
>>>>
>>>> Maybe you get what you pay for... I purchased the above wine kit for a
>>>> real bargain, compared to WinExpert kits, this was real cheap. As I
>>>> moved this kit along, I got to the final stage - clarifying, and well,
>>>> it's not clarifying. The instructions says, "filter it", which I don't
>>>> have a filter machine and don't plan on purchasing one for this kit. I
>>>> experimented with a coffee filter - no change to the clarity. I've never
>>>> had a wine not clear. It makes 23L (6 gallons), so here is what I've
>>>> done, any other suggestions are welcome!
>>>>
>>>> I decided to be patient and let it sit longer in the carboy (this kit is
>>>> a 4 week kit and ready to drink when bottled, they say).
>>>>
>>>> However, the kit didn't fill my carboy - yes, I followed all
>>>> instructions to the letter! - , so I split into two 3 gallon carboys and
>>>> topped up one with 4 1/2 bottles of Pinot Noir (Rex Goliath 47 Pound
>>>> Rooster, since I like this)My rationale was, experiment with one as is,
>>>> and one topped up with good wine. That means one 3 gallon carboy is
>>>> almost 30% added wine. So now I have both ready for aging.
>>>>
>>>> I added 1/4 Tsp of Potassium Meta, and 1 Tsp of Carbonite to each. Mixed
>>>> both well and added airlock to each. My plan is to let it sit another
>>>> month and see if it has cleared up. If not, another month of wait. Then
>>>> decide if another clearing agent might help.
>>>>
>>>> Anyone with experience on this wine kit? I was amazed how the
>>>> instructions were lacking much info, luckily I have done many kits, so
>>>> checked WinExpert instructions to ensure I was doing it right.
>>>>
>>>> Ken Ridge Connoisseur Pinot Noir - out of Canada. Did I get what I paid
>>>> for? smile. I think it was $47 US.
>>>>
>>>> DAve

Dave:

I regularly add dried elderberries (bought from Vineco <grin>) to
Calif Conn for customers. One makes the Merlot regularly, and also
the Chianti and Bergamais (Beaujolais style). Have had no problems
clearly their kits.

Steve

On Thu, 09 Nov 2006 08:58:58 -0500, Dave Allison
> wrote:

>2. NOW I remember what I did different (blush, this is embarrassing), to
>add more "jammy-ness" to the Pinot Noir, I had added 1 oz of dried
>elderberries during primary fermentation. Now this makes sense that I
>did not clear, as I did not add anything to break it down, like pectic
>enzyme. Plus I left the kit instructions and went out on my own, thus I
>can't complain.

Steve, I'm going to add a little pectin enzyme to my carboy and then let
it sit for another month. then clarifying agent again, and let it sit
for a month. and see what happens.
This is good to know you have done this also. This is possible, not just
theory. smile.

thanks. DAve

Steve wrote:
> Dave:
>
> I regularly add dried elderberries (bought from Vineco <grin>) to
> Calif Conn for customers. One makes the Merlot regularly, and also
> the Chianti and Bergamais (Beaujolais style). Have had no problems
> clearly their kits.
>
> Steve
>
> On Thu, 09 Nov 2006 08:58:58 -0500, Dave Allison
> > wrote:
>
>> 2. NOW I remember what I did different (blush, this is embarrassing), to
>> add more "jammy-ness" to the Pinot Noir, I had added 1 oz of dried
>> elderberries during primary fermentation. Now this makes sense that I
>> did not clear, as I did not add anything to break it down, like pectic
>> enzyme. Plus I left the kit instructions and went out on my own, thus I
>> can't complain.
>