Hi Guys

What's the difference between Spumante and Prosecco?

All I know is they are from Italy.

Thanks

Raymond

Mike Tommasi wrote:
> Raymond wrote:
>> Hi Guys
>>
>> What's the difference between Spumante and Prosecco?
>
> Spumante simply means "sparkling".
>
> Prosecco is a grape variety. It is also a town near Trieste.
>
> Prosecco di Conegliano/Valdobbiadene is a Spumante from the
> Valdobbiadene area in Italy.

Mike (or anyone else),
Is Prosecco always spumante, or can it also be frizzante? Just curious.

Mark Lipton

--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

Mark Lipton > wrote:

> Mike (or anyone else),
> Is Prosecco always spumante,

No.

> or can it also be frizzante?

Yes. And still.

> Just curious.

No Problem! An educated guess (Mike might have more precise
figures):

- Prosecco still: not more than 3% of the whole;

- Prosecco frizzante: at least 70%, possibly more.

- Prosecco spumante: the rest.

M.

On Mon, 08 Dec 2008 15:06:50 +0100, Mike Tommasi >
wrote:

>Raymond wrote:
>> Hi Guys
>>
>> What's the difference between Spumante and Prosecco?
>
>Spumante simply means "sparkling".
>
>Prosecco is a grape variety. It is also a town near Trieste.
>
>Prosecco di Conegliano/Valdobbiadene is a Spumante from the
>Valdobbiadene area in Italy.

Won't argue with any of that, but I suspect Raymond was interested in
contrasting Asti Spumante with a fizzy Prosecco.

Asti Spumante is always very sweet, made using the Muscat grape which
has a distinctive grapey flavour, and comes from Asti. It is know
known simply as Asti, which is a bit strange considering how many
other styles of wine are made in the area.

Prosecco is typically drier - more similar to a Brut Champagne.

--
Steve Slatcher
http://pobox.com/~steve.slatcher

On Mon, 8 Dec 2008 22:01:08 +0800, "Raymond" >
wrote:

> What's the difference between Spumante and Prosecco?
>
> All I know is they are from Italy.


A wine can be either or it can be both. Spumante simply means
"sparkling," but Prosecco is the name of a grape variety.

So Prosecco might be Spumante or it might not.

--
Ken Blake
Please Reply to the Newsgroup

"Ken Blake" > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
> On Mon, 8 Dec 2008 22:01:08 +0800, "Raymond" >
> wrote:
>
>> What's the difference between Spumante and Prosecco?
>>
>> All I know is they are from Italy.
>
>
> A wine can be either or it can be both. Spumante simply means
> "sparkling," but Prosecco is the name of a grape variety.
>
> So Prosecco might be Spumante or it might not.
>
> --
Prosecco is always sparkling. A Prosecco without sparkles doesn't exist,
because this grape is good only like this.

Ciao, A.M.

Thanks Guys

"Raymond" > wrote in message
...
> Hi Guys
>
> What's the difference between Spumante and Prosecco?
>
> All I know is they are from Italy.
>
> Thanks
>
> Raymond
>
>

On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 17:30:28 +0100, "Anna Maria" >
wrote:

>
> "Ken Blake" > ha scritto nel messaggio
> ...
> > On Mon, 8 Dec 2008 22:01:08 +0800, "Raymond" >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> What's the difference between Spumante and Prosecco?
> >>
> >> All I know is they are from Italy.
> >
> >
> > A wine can be either or it can be both. Spumante simply means
> > "sparkling," but Prosecco is the name of a grape variety.
> >
> > So Prosecco might be Spumante or it might not.
> >
> > --
> Prosecco is always sparkling. A Prosecco without sparkles doesn't exist,
> because this grape is good only like this.


Sorry, that's not correct. Although the great majority of Prosecco is
sparkling, not all of it is.

--
Ken Blake
Please Reply to the Newsgroup

"Anna Maria" > wrote:

> Prosecco is always sparkling.

No.

Just because you haven't seen one that doesn't mean it doesn't
exist.

I've had still Prosecco.

M.

"Ken Blake" > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
> On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 17:30:28 +0100, "Anna Maria" >
> wrote:
>
>>
>> "Ken Blake" > ha scritto nel messaggio
>> ...
>> > On Mon, 8 Dec 2008 22:01:08 +0800, "Raymond" >
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> What's the difference between Spumante and Prosecco?
>> >>
>> >> All I know is they are from Italy.
>> >
>> >
>> > A wine can be either or it can be both. Spumante simply means
>> > "sparkling," but Prosecco is the name of a grape variety.
>> >
>> > So Prosecco might be Spumante or it might not.
>> >
>> > --
>> Prosecco is always sparkling. A Prosecco without sparkles doesn't exist,
>> because this grape is good only like this.
>
>
> Sorry, that's not correct. Although the great majority of Prosecco is
> sparkling, not all of it is.
>
> --
I'm sorry, I made a mistake; but in Italy it's not common to find a Prosecco
without sparkles (probably just only in the same area of production -or in
USA?).
When we speak about "Prosecco" we mean "Prosecco Cartizze" that is always
sparkling or "Prosecco di Conegliano and/or Valdobbiadene" that they are
prevalently sparkling.

A.M.

"Anna Maria" > wrote:

> I'm sorry, I made a mistake; but in Italy it's not common to
> find a Prosecco without sparkles (probably just only in the
> same area of production -or in USA?).

Mostly in the area of production.

> When we speak about "Prosecco" we mean "Prosecco Cartizze" that
> is always sparkling

Not true once again. Wines labelled "Superiore di Cartizze"
come from a subzone of the DOC Conegliano-/Valdobbiadene.
DOC regulations say that Conegliano-/Valdobbiadene tranquillo
and frizzante have an alcohol minimum of 10.5%, spumante of 11%.
Cartizze's minimum is 11% for still and slightly sparkling wines,
11.5% for full sparklers.

Given the premium that is paid for Cartizze spumante, I guess that
in real life well over 99% of Cartizze is, in fact, sparkling.

> or "Prosecco di Conegliano and/or Valdobbiadene" that they
> are prevalently sparkling.

True.

M.

On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 14:39:48 +0100, "Anna Maria" >
wrote:

>
> "Ken Blake" > ha scritto nel messaggio
> ...
> > On Wed, 10 Dec 2008 17:30:28 +0100, "Anna Maria" >
> > wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> "Ken Blake" > ha scritto nel messaggio
> >> ...
> >> > On Mon, 8 Dec 2008 22:01:08 +0800, "Raymond" >
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> What's the difference between Spumante and Prosecco?
> >> >>
> >> >> All I know is they are from Italy.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > A wine can be either or it can be both. Spumante simply means
> >> > "sparkling," but Prosecco is the name of a grape variety.
> >> >
> >> > So Prosecco might be Spumante or it might not.
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> Prosecco is always sparkling. A Prosecco without sparkles doesn't exist,
> >> because this grape is good only like this.
> >
> >
> > Sorry, that's not correct. Although the great majority of Prosecco is
> > sparkling, not all of it is.
> >
> > --
> I'm sorry, I made a mistake; but in Italy it's not common to find a Prosecco
> without sparkles


Yes, as I said, "the great majority of Prosecco is sparkling."


> (probably just only in the same area of production -or in
> USA?).
> When we speak about "Prosecco" we mean "Prosecco Cartizze" that is always
> sparkling or "Prosecco di Conegliano and/or Valdobbiadene" that they are
> prevalently sparkling.
>
> A.M.
>

--
Ken Blake
Please Reply to the Newsgroup

"Michael Pronay" > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
> "Anna Maria" > wrote:
>
>> I'm sorry, I made a mistake; but in Italy it's not common to
>> find a Prosecco without sparkles (probably just only in the
>> same area of production -or in USA?).
>
> Mostly in the area of production.
>
>> When we speak about "Prosecco" we mean "Prosecco Cartizze" that
>> is always sparkling
>
> Not true once again. Wines labelled "Superiore di Cartizze"
> come from a subzone of the DOC Conegliano-/Valdobbiadene.
> DOC regulations say that Conegliano-/Valdobbiadene tranquillo
> and frizzante have an alcohol minimum of 10.5%, spumante of 11%.
> Cartizze's minimum is 11% for still and slightly sparkling wines,
> 11.5% for full sparklers.
>
I'm sorry but this time you are not true.
I don't know if you can read Italian but following is a copy-and-paste of
the "disciplinare" (official DOC regulation)

"La menzione Superiore di Cartizze è riservata al vino spumante ottenuto
nella tradizionale sottozona nei limiti ed alle condizioni stabilite nel
presente disciplinare."

http://www.conegliano-valdobbiatene-...ciplinare.html


> Given the premium that is paid for Cartizze spumante, I guess that
> in real life well over 99% of Cartizze is, in fact, sparkling.
>
If you find a Prosecco Superiore di Cartizze not sparkling it's surely a
fake.

A.M.

"Anna Maria" > wrote:

> I'm sorry but this time you are not true.

Maybe a little outdated; see below.

> I don't know if you can read Italian

A little ... :-)

> but following is a copy-and-paste of the "disciplinare"
> (official DOC regulation)
>
> "La menzione Superiore di Cartizze è riservata al vino spumante
> ottenuto nella tradizionale sottozona nei limiti ed alle
> condizioni stabilite nel presente disciplinare."
>
> http://www.conegliano-valdobbiatene-...ciplinare.html

Thank you very much, obviously I stand corrected.

My source was "Die Liste der DOC- und DOCG-Weine XV. Edition",
published by "Enoteca Italiana" in 2002, the full title being
"Ente Mostra Mercato Nazionale dei Vini a D.O. e di Pregio
Enoteca Italiana", Siena. The passage on p. 69 reads:

| Wein aus dem Lesegut des Territoriums der (Cartizze genannten)
| Fraktion San Pietro di Barbozza in der Gemeinde Valdobbiadene
| gewonnen und bei einem Mindestalkoholgehalt von respektive 11
| Vol.-% für die Typologien /"Tranquillo"/ (Stillwein) und
| /"Frizzante"/ (Perlwein), und 11,5 Vol.-% für den /"Spumante"/,
| kann im Etikett die Zusatzbezeichnung /*"Superiore di
| Cartizze"*/ angeführt werden.

I'll try to translate:

| Wine made from harvest of the territory of the fraction San
| Pietro di Barbozza (called Cartizze) in the commune of
| Valdobbiadene with a minimal alcoholic content of 11% for the
| types "Tranquillo" and "Frizzante" and of 11,5% for "Spumante"
| may bear the additional mention "Superiore di Cartizze" on the
| label.

Your source does not bear a date, but anyhow the DOC regulations
must have changed between 2002 and today.

> If you find a Prosecco Superiore di Cartizze not sparkling it's
> surely a fake.

Or a pre-2002 bottle ... ;-)

M.

"Michael Pronay" > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
> "Anna Maria" > wrote:
>
>> I'm sorry but this time you are not true.
>
> Maybe a little outdated; see below.
>
>> I don't know if you can read Italian
>
> A little ... :-)
>
>> but following is a copy-and-paste of the "disciplinare"
>> (official DOC regulation)
>>
>> "La menzione Superiore di Cartizze è riservata al vino spumante
>> ottenuto nella tradizionale sottozona nei limiti ed alle
>> condizioni stabilite nel presente disciplinare."
>>
>> http://www.conegliano-valdobbiatene-...ciplinare.html
>
> Thank you very much, obviously I stand corrected.
>
> My source was "Die Liste der DOC- und DOCG-Weine XV. Edition",
> published by "Enoteca Italiana" in 2002, the full title being
> "Ente Mostra Mercato Nazionale dei Vini a D.O. e di Pregio
> Enoteca Italiana", Siena. The passage on p. 69 reads:
>
> | Wein aus dem Lesegut des Territoriums der (Cartizze genannten)
> | Fraktion San Pietro di Barbozza in der Gemeinde Valdobbiadene
> | gewonnen und bei einem Mindestalkoholgehalt von respektive 11
> | Vol.-% für die Typologien /"Tranquillo"/ (Stillwein) und
> | /"Frizzante"/ (Perlwein), und 11,5 Vol.-% für den /"Spumante"/,
> | kann im Etikett die Zusatzbezeichnung /*"Superiore di
> | Cartizze"*/ angeführt werden.
>
> I'll try to translate:
>
> | Wine made from harvest of the territory of the fraction San
> | Pietro di Barbozza (called Cartizze) in the commune of
> | Valdobbiadene with a minimal alcoholic content of 11% for the
> | types "Tranquillo" and "Frizzante" and of 11,5% for "Spumante"
> | may bear the additional mention "Superiore di Cartizze" on the
> | label.

There is a mistake in the translation from Italian to German. I can rewrite
it. Please tell me if it's correct and makes sense because my German is
"nicht so gut". (You are German, right?) .

"Wein aus dem Lesegut des Territoriums der (Cartizze genannten)
Fraktion San Pietro di Barbozza in der Gemeinde Valdobbiadene
gewonnen HAT einem Mindestalkoholgehalt von respektive 11
Vol.-% für die Typologien /"Tranquillo"/ (Stillwein) und
"Frizzante"/ (Perlwein), und 11,5 Vol.-% für den /"Spumante"/,
DER im Etikett die Zusatzbezeichnung /*"Superiore di
Cartizze"*/ angeführt werden kann."



>
> Your source does not bear a date, but anyhow the DOC regulations
> must have changed between 2002 and today.
>
This is the latest update of the "disciplinare"
May 25th 2007:
http://www.tv.camcom.it/docs/Sono/un...dobbiadene.pdf

Ciao, A.M.

"Anna Maria" > wrote:

>> | Wein aus dem Lesegut des Territoriums der (Cartizze
^
,
>> | genannten) Fraktion San Pietro di Barbozza in der Gemeinde
>> | Valdobbiadene gewonnen und bei einem Mindestalkoholgehalt von
>> | respektive 11 Vol.-% für die Typologien /"Tranquillo"/
>> | (Stillwein) und /"Frizzante"/ (Perlwein), und 11,5 Vol.-% für
^

>> | den /"Spumante"/, kann im Etikett die Zusatzbezeichnung
>> | /*"Superiore di Cartizze"*/ angeführt werden.
>>
>> I'll try to translate:
>>
>> | Wine made from harvest of the territory of the fraction San
>> | Pietro di Barbozza (called Cartizze) in the commune of
>> | Valdobbiadene with a minimal alcoholic content of 11% for the
>> | types "Tranquillo" and "Frizzante" and of 11,5% for
>> | "Spumante" may bear the additional mention "Superiore di
>> | Cartizze" on the label.

> There is a mistake in the translation from Italian to German.

No. The German ist not very fluent, and to be grammatically correct,
there should be a comma where I put one, and the second comma should
be ommitted.

> I can rewrite it. Please tell me if it's correct and makes sense
> because my German is "nicht so gut".

Well, to be polite, it's not very correct.

> (You are German, right?) .

No. Austriaco.

> "Wein aus dem Lesegut des Territoriums der (Cartizze genannten)
> Fraktion San Pietro di Barbozza in der Gemeinde Valdobbiadene
> gewonnen HAT einem Mindestalkoholgehalt von respektive 11 Vol.-%
> für die Typologien /"Tranquillo"/ (Stillwein) und "Frizzante"/
> (Perlwein), und 11,5 Vol.-% für den /"Spumante"/, DER im Etikett
> die Zusatzbezeichnung /*"Superiore di Cartizze"*/ angeführt
> werden kann."

That would mean "Wine from ... HAS a minimum alcohol content THAT on
the label the mention ... be put."

Sorry, but that's not correct at all.

I have a better German translation at hand (obviously done by
somebody more familiar both with wine and the German language,
which is not the case for the translation of the above Enoteca
Italiana version). It's from: Enoteca Italiana, "Lexikon der
italienischen Weine. Sämtliche DOCG- und DOC-Weine", Hallwag bei
Gräfe und Unzer, Munich 2002, p. 74. The original title: "L'Italia
del Vino – Repertorio delle Produzione DOC e DOCG", Istituto
Geografico De Agostini, Novara 2001.

| Wird der Wein aus Trauben der Subzone Cartizze im Gebiet von
| San Pietro di Barbozza in der Gemeinde Valdobbiadene erzeugt
| und hat er einen Mindestalkoholgehalt von 11% für die Stile
| *Tranquillo* und *Frizzante* und 11,5% für den *Spumante*, so
| kann er die Unterbezeichnung *Superiore di Cartizze"* führen.

Except that I would have written "Zusatzbezeichnung" instead of
"Unterbezeichnung", this translation is perfectly fine.

M.

You've been very kind :-)

Thank you, it's a good lesson for my German (sigh).

A.M

"Anna Maria" > wrote:

> You've been very kind :-)
>
> Thank you, it's a good lesson for my German (sigh).

No problem ... ;-)

If you have any wine related German problems, don't hesitate
to ask here!

M.

On Mon, 8 Dec 2008 22:01:08 +0800, "Raymond" >
wrote:

>Hi Guys
>
>What's the difference between Spumante and Prosecco?
>
>All I know is they are from Italy.
>
>Thanks
>
>Raymond
>

Article in today's New York Times on topic:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/28/bu...=5070&emc=eta1