Sourdough (rec.food.sourdough) Discussing the hobby or craft of baking with sourdough. We are not just a recipe group, Our charter is to discuss the care, feeding, and breeding of yeasts and lactobacilli that make up sourdough cultures.

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Old 23-12-2006, 10:46 PM posted to rec.food.sourdough
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Default Sourdough bread and the bread machine dough cycle

I know you can't make sourdough bread in the bread machine with long
sourdough risings, but will sourdough bread work if you use the bread
machine on the dough cycle and then let it rise outside the machine?
Thanks.
Russ


----
Russell Fletcher
Battle Ground, WA USA



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Old 24-12-2006, 12:17 AM posted to rec.food.sourdough
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Default Sourdough bread and the bread machine dough cycle

It works in a programmable machine, like the Zojirushi, because you can
control how long to mix and knead and how long to set the rise.

The regular dough cycle might be "iffy" it could mix too much, or not rise
long enough.

I use my "ZO" and set it to mix/knead for about 10 minutes then a 90 minute
rise. The machine will beep alerting me that its time to check my dough and
see if I'd like to take it out and shape it or I could choose to wait a
while longer. .. If I had selected the dough cycle the mix and knead would
be 21 minutes which is too long and a 45 minute rise which is too short then
it would stir the dough and rise again, which I wouldn't want.

Rina

"Russell Fletcher" wrote in message
...
I know you can't make sourdough bread in the bread machine with long
sourdough risings, but will sourdough bread work if you use the bread
machine on the dough cycle and then let it rise outside the machine?



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Old 24-12-2006, 01:34 PM posted to rec.food.sourdough
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Default Sourdough bread and the bread machine dough cycle

i use the knead Dough only setting,
then shut the machine off

then i check back after XXX minutes
[i have a nice loud portable timer]
some trials needed for rising times

i can now bake in the machine, or let rise longer,
or if not happy - knead again, etc etc

sometimes, if not happy with the rise,
i can Bake for a few minutes, and shut off,
just to raise the temperature in the the pan

my point is,
my "automatic" machine can also be run "manually"

waterboy

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Old 24-12-2006, 11:38 PM posted to rec.food.sourdough
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Default Sourdough bread and the bread machine dough cycle

Actually you can. But you need to "butcher" the machine cycle. I use B&D
bread maker with single blade and a horizontal pan. If I restrain myself
from overloading the pan over 2LB it does acceptable mixing job. I use heavy
dough 62% hydration with whole rye (50%), whole wheat (40%) and extra bran
(10%) of total flour. I tried 3LB B&D machine with double blades but after
2 to 3 spins it could not turn at all. Then I switch cycle off, remove the
mixing blade and let it rise for 6 to 8 hours. When it is ready I start
baking only cycle for 1.5 hour at 420F. Or I transfer the dough to basket
after mixing it in the machine, let it rise for 6 to 8 hours and bake it in
the clay pot pan with the lid ( the preheated lid used only for first 10
min of baking) on the BBQ. Why BBQ? I found that it gives higher initial
temperature than my oven and faster recovers from the heat loss. I use
indirect heat for baking.


"Russell Fletcher" wrote in message
...
| I know you can't make sourdough bread in the bread machine with long
| sourdough risings, but will sourdough bread work if you use the bread
| machine on the dough cycle and then let it rise outside the machine?
| Thanks.
| Russ
|
|
| ----
| Russell Fletcher
| Battle Ground, WA USA
|
|


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Old 29-12-2006, 10:55 AM posted to rec.food.sourdough
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Default Sourdough bread and the bread machine dough cycle

Yes, of course. I used a bread machine for kneading sourdough for many
years, until I bought a Deluxe mixer. The biggest disadvantage to using a
bread machine is that you can make just one loaf at a time

"Russell Fletcher" wrote in message
...
I know you can't make sourdough bread in the bread machine with long
sourdough risings, but will sourdough bread work if you use the bread
machine on the dough cycle and then let it rise outside the machine?
Thanks.
Russ


----
Russell Fletcher
Battle Ground, WA USA





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Old 29-12-2006, 11:26 AM posted to rec.food.sourdough
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Default Sourdough bread and the bread machine dough cycle


Phil wrote:
Yes, of course. I used a bread machine for kneading sourdough for many
years, until I bought a Deluxe mixer. The biggest disadvantage to using a
bread machine is that you can make just one loaf at a time


But sourdough is so simple, with the long rises you don't really even
need to knead much, I do a stretch and fold, I've even do it just for
the fun of it rather than waiting for time to do most of the work. It
works better with upwards of 65% doughs, no flour, no oil, just slap it
on the work top and pull a handful towards you, stretch your hands
apart and slap it back down over itself. You can get a good rhythm
going to and it doesn't take more than a few minutes then it's done.
Put it back in the bowl and leave it. You then have the advantage of
being able to make as much as you like and shape as you like.

Anyway, just a 'by-the-by'.

Jim

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Old 29-12-2006, 04:36 PM posted to rec.food.sourdough
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Default Sourdough bread and the bread machine dough cycle

I made a loaf of Mike Avery's 100 percent whole wheat sourdough bread
last night ( http://www.sourdoughhome.com/100percentwholewheat.html )
and it turned out great.

I added the ingredients and set it on the dough cycle. A few minutes
later I checked the dough cycle and it was too wet, so I added more
flour. At the end of the mixing cycle I checked it and it was still to
wet. I started the cycle again and added more flour. At the end of
the mixing cycle it turned out just fine and passed the window pane
test.

Then I took it out of the machine and followed the remaining
instructions like I had kneaded it by hand. The loaf turned out
wonderfully and my wife and I ate 1/3 of it for a bedtime snack with
butter and honey.
Russ

On Dec 24, 5:34 am, wrote:
i use the knead Dough only setting,
then shut the machine off

then i check back after XXX minutes
[i have a nice loud portable timer]
some trials needed for rising times

i can now bake in the machine, or let rise longer,
or if not happy - knead again, etc etc

sometimes, if not happy with the rise,
i can Bake for a few minutes, and shut off,
just to raise the temperature in the the pan

my point is,
my "automatic" machine can also be run "manually"

waterboy


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Old 29-12-2006, 05:07 PM posted to rec.food.sourdough
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Default Sourdough bread and the bread machine dough cycle

On 29 Dec 2006 08:36:35 -0800, "PastorDIC"
wrote:

A few minutes
later I checked the dough cycle and it was too wet,


Hi Russ,

What characteristics cause you to believe the dough to be
"too wet?"

I ask because often we get better results using doughs that
are quite "sticky."

Often folks keep adding flour to avoid the stickiness, but
with some practice it becomes easy to handle doughs that are
quite wet. By doing that, sometimes the texture of the
finished bread is improved.

All the best,
--
Kenneth

If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."
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Old 29-12-2006, 05:48 PM posted to rec.food.sourdough
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Default Sourdough bread and the bread machine dough cycle


PastorDIC wrote:

A few minutes
later I checked the dough cycle and it was too wet, so I added more
flour...


At the end of the mixing cycle I checked it and it was still to
wet. I started the cycle again and added more flour...


Whole grain breads behave a bit differently than all purpose or bread
flour breads. For one thing, they hydrate a lot more slowly. So they
seem to be wet (and are indeed wet) until the bran eventually absorbs
this "loose" water. So you were correct to observe this "wetness" but
perhaps too quick in correcting it.

One thing to always keep in mind is pace. When you're in SD mode...
take your time g.

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Old 29-12-2006, 06:47 PM posted to rec.food.sourdough
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Default Sourdough bread and the bread machine dough cycle

In this case the dough was so wet I couldn't grab a hold of it. You
can't do a window pane test if you can't grab and stretch it.
Russ

On Dec 29, 9:07 am, Kenneth wrote:
On 29 Dec 2006 08:36:35 -0800, "PastorDIC"
A few minutes
later I checked the dough cycle and it was too wet,Hi Russ,


What characteristics cause you to believe the dough to be
"too wet?"

I ask because often we get better results using doughs that
are quite "sticky."

Often folks keep adding flour to avoid the stickiness, but
with some practice it becomes easy to handle doughs that are
quite wet. By doing that, sometimes the texture of the
finished bread is improved.




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Old 29-12-2006, 07:00 PM posted to rec.food.sourdough
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Default Sourdough bread and the bread machine dough cycle



On Dec 29, 9:48 am, "Will" wrote:
Whole grain breads behave a bit differently than all purpose or bread

flour breads. For one thing, they hydrate a lot more slowly. So they
seem to be wet (and are indeed wet) until the bran eventually absorbs
this "loose" water. So you were correct to observe this "wetness" but
perhaps too quick in correcting it.

One thing to always keep in mind is pace. When you're in SD mode...
take your time g.


That's for sure. To refresh/reactivate the starter and make a loaf of
bread without staying up all night I have to have my wife put in the
flour and water to reactivate the dough before I get home so I can
start making bread as soon as I get home.

Also, I've noticed that unless you make Mike Avery's Blueberry
Sourdough muffins on a regular basis to use up some starter (although
I'm sure there are other good uses I haven't found yet) or you make
about three loaves of bread at a time you are always going to have more
starter after you make one loaf of bread than you did before you made
it because it took more water and flour to reactivate the starter than
the amount of starter you used in your recipe.

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Old 30-12-2006, 06:32 PM posted to rec.food.sourdough
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Default Sourdough bread and the bread machine dough cycle

PastorDIC wrote:
Also, I've noticed that unless you make Mike Avery's Blueberry
Sourdough muffins on a regular basis to use up some starter (although
I'm sure there are other good uses I haven't found yet) or you make
about three loaves of bread at a time you are always going to have more
starter after you make one loaf of bread than you did before you made
it because it took more water and flour to reactivate the starter than
the amount of starter you used in your recipe.

Since I wrote most of the sourdoughhome web page, I've been changing how
I use and maintain starter. And I am not having tons of excess starter
any longer. It is very similar to what Dick and Samartha talk about in
their posts.

I have gone from about 100% hydration on the starter I save in the
fridge to around 60%. This stored starter lasts months without
refreshment and without hooch. When I get low on starter, I take the
storage starter out of the fridge and feed it up until I have enough
starter.

About two days before I want to bake, I take a very small amount of
starter out of the jar in the fridge and feed it up. After two days, I
have the amount of starter I need, and the starter is very active.

My goal is to have the right amount of starter, with no leftover
starter. Since I know how much starter I'll need for my bake, I work
towards that amount. As a side note, if you don't have quite enough, it
is easy to replace part of the starter with flour and water and carry
on. The rise will take a bit longer, but it will work. On a few
occasions I have used as little as 1/4 of the starter the recipe called
for. In general, the first rise will take a bit longer, but the second
rise (if you use one) will take the usual amount of time.

Mike


--
....The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating
system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the world...

Mike Avery mavery at mail dot otherwhen dot com
part time baker ICQ 16241692
networking guru AIM, yahoo and skype mavery81230
wordsmith

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Old 03-01-2007, 08:04 PM posted to rec.food.sourdough
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Default Sourdough bread and the bread machine dough cycle

Thanks to everyone that gave advice. I tried another loaf of the same
bread using the dough cycle and it came out much better the second
time. I also only needed one dough mixing cycle in the bread machine.
Russ

On Dec 29 2006, 3:26 am, "TG" wrote:
Phil wrote:
Yes, of course. I used a bread machine for kneading sourdough for many
years, until I bought a Deluxe mixer. The biggest disadvantage to using a
bread machine is that you can make just one loaf at a timeBut sourdough is so simple, with the long rises you don't really even

need to knead much, I do a stretch and fold, I've even do it just for
the fun of it rather than waiting for time to do most of the work. It
works better with upwards of 65% doughs, no flour, no oil, just slap it
on the work top and pull a handful towards you, stretch your hands
apart and slap it back down over itself. You can get a good rhythm
going to and it doesn't take more than a few minutes then it's done.
Put it back in the bowl and leave it. You then have the advantage of
being able to make as much as you like and shape as you like.

Anyway, just a 'by-the-by'.

Jim




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