I was shopping in a supermarket I don't normally visit. Looking around
for anything interesting I found a bag of Morton Tenderquick. Now what
do I do with it?

Pete C.

Pete C. wrote:
> I was shopping in a supermarket I don't normally visit. Looking around
> for anything interesting I found a bag of Morton Tenderquick. Now what
> do I do with it?
>
> Pete C.

Make some cured sausage, or brine a turkey with it and smoke it, or make
your own bacon, or...

As a rule-of-thumb, you just substitute TenderQuick for the salt in a
recipe, and leave out any saltpeter or prague powder the recipe may call
for.

Best regards,
Bob

"zxcvbob" > wrote in message
...
> Pete C. wrote:
>> I was shopping in a supermarket I don't normally visit. Looking around
>> for anything interesting I found a bag of Morton Tenderquick. Now what
>> do I do with it?
>>
>> Pete C.
>
> Make some cured sausage, or brine a turkey with it and smoke it, or make
> your own bacon, or...
>
> As a rule-of-thumb, you just substitute TenderQuick for the salt in a
> recipe, and leave out any saltpeter or prague powder the recipe may call
> for.
>
> Best regards,
> Bob

What is prague powder?

Garrett Fulton

gfulton wrote:
> "zxcvbob" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Pete C. wrote:
>>
>>>I was shopping in a supermarket I don't normally visit. Looking around
>>>for anything interesting I found a bag of Morton Tenderquick. Now what
>>>do I do with it?
>>>
>>>Pete C.
>>
>>Make some cured sausage, or brine a turkey with it and smoke it, or make
>>your own bacon, or...
>>
>>As a rule-of-thumb, you just substitute TenderQuick for the salt in a
>>recipe, and leave out any saltpeter or prague powder the recipe may call
>>for.
>>
>>Best regards,
>>Bob
>
>
> What is prague powder?
>
> Garrett Fulton
>
>


One ounce of sodium nitrite mixed with 15 ounces of salt, plus a little
bit of pink food coloring. It's used as a preservative and curing agent
for meats. It's what gives ham its characteristic pink color -- not
from the food dye but from a chemical reaction between the nitrite and
the hemoglobin (myoglobin?) in the meat. In addition to sodium nitrite,
prague powder #2 contains a little bit of sodium nitrate, which is
reduced by bacteria to make more sodium nitrite -- so it's "timed
release" nitrite. You just use a small amount of prague powder; I think
it's something like an ounce to 10 pounds of meat (plus a bunch of
additional salt)

Tender Quick contains both nitrite and nitrate, already *fully diluted*
with salt and ready to use.

Best regards,
Bob

On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 19:16:54 -0600, zxcvbob >
wrote:

>Pete C. wrote:
>> I was shopping in a supermarket I don't normally visit. Looking around
>> for anything interesting I found a bag of Morton Tenderquick. Now what
>> do I do with it?
>>
>> Pete C.
>
>Make some cured sausage, or brine a turkey with it and smoke it, or make
>your own bacon, or...
>
>As a rule-of-thumb, you just substitute TenderQuick for the salt in a
>recipe, and leave out any saltpeter or prague powder the recipe may call
>for.
>
>Best regards,
>Bob

I guess it's similar to "Sifto Quik-kure" here in Canada.
I use it for making corned beef & jerky & yes, brining a turkey prior
to smoking (but only once!)
Here's the ingredients of the Sifto;
Content:
91.5% Sodium Chloride
6.0% Sucrose
1.5% Monosodium Glutamate
0.4% Sodium Nitrite
0.6% Sodium Nitrate
Keep out of reach of children <--{that's weird!}

"zxcvbob" > wrote in message
...
> Pete C. wrote:
>> I was shopping in a supermarket I don't normally visit. Looking
>> around
>> for anything interesting I found a bag of Morton Tenderquick. Now
>> what
>> do I do with it?
>>
>> Pete C.
>
> Make some cured sausage, or brine a turkey with it and smoke it, or
> make your own bacon, or...
>
> As a rule-of-thumb, you just substitute TenderQuick for the salt in a
> recipe, and leave out any saltpeter or prague powder the recipe may
> call for.

Is it expensive? How heavy is the package?

zxcvbob wrote:

> As a rule-of-thumb, you just substitute TenderQuick for the salt in a
> recipe, and leave out any saltpeter or prague powder the recipe may call
> for.

TQ contains 0.5% sodium nitrite. Prague #1 contains 6.5% sodium
nitrite.

So, if you sub TQ for prague #1 you'll cut the amount of sodium
nitrite by over 90%. You might not want that, but there's no
way to say for sure without seeing the specific recipe.

You can't sub TQ for prague #2 under any conditions.

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

"zxcvbob" > wrote in message
...
> gfulton wrote:
> > "zxcvbob" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >
> >>Pete C. wrote:
> >>
> >>>I was shopping in a supermarket I don't normally visit. Looking around
> >>>for anything interesting I found a bag of Morton Tenderquick. Now what
> >>>do I do with it?
> >>>
> >>>Pete C.
> >>
> >>Make some cured sausage, or brine a turkey with it and smoke it, or make
> >>your own bacon, or...
> >>
> >>As a rule-of-thumb, you just substitute TenderQuick for the salt in a
> >>recipe, and leave out any saltpeter or prague powder the recipe may call
> >>for.
> >>
> >>Best regards,
> >>Bob
> >
> >
> > What is prague powder?
> >
> > Garrett Fulton
> >
> >
>
>
> One ounce of sodium nitrite mixed with 15 ounces of salt, plus a little
> bit of pink food coloring. It's used as a preservative and curing agent
> for meats. It's what gives ham its characteristic pink color -- not
> from the food dye but from a chemical reaction between the nitrite and
> the hemoglobin (myoglobin?) in the meat. In addition to sodium nitrite,
> prague powder #2 contains a little bit of sodium nitrate, which is
> reduced by bacteria to make more sodium nitrite -- so it's "timed
> release" nitrite. You just use a small amount of prague powder; I think
> it's something like an ounce to 10 pounds of meat (plus a bunch of
> additional salt)
>
> Tender Quick contains both nitrite and nitrate, already *fully diluted*
> with salt and ready to use.
>
> Best regards,
> Bob
>
>

Thanks, Bob. I guess I could have googled it up, but it wouldn't have been
near as good an explanation as you provided.

Garrett

Ophelia wrote:
> "zxcvbob" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Pete C. wrote:
>>
>>>I was shopping in a supermarket I don't normally visit. Looking
>>>around
>>>for anything interesting I found a bag of Morton Tenderquick. Now
>>>what
>>>do I do with it?
>>>
>>>Pete C.
>>
>>Make some cured sausage, or brine a turkey with it and smoke it, or
>>make your own bacon, or...
>>
>>As a rule-of-thumb, you just substitute TenderQuick for the salt in a
>>recipe, and leave out any saltpeter or prague powder the recipe may
>>call for.
>
>
> Is it expensive? How heavy is the package?
>
>
IIRC a 2 lb package cost me about $3. You don't use a lot so that
amount will go a long ways. I found it in the salts and spices aisle of
the grocery store.

"Hermione" > wrote in message
...
> Ophelia wrote:
>> "zxcvbob" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>Pete C. wrote:
>>>
>>>>I was shopping in a supermarket I don't normally visit. Looking
>>>>around
>>>>for anything interesting I found a bag of Morton Tenderquick. Now
>>>>what
>>>>do I do with it?
>>>>
>>>>Pete C.
>>>
>>>Make some cured sausage, or brine a turkey with it and smoke it, or
>>>make your own bacon, or...
>>>
>>>As a rule-of-thumb, you just substitute TenderQuick for the salt in a
>>>recipe, and leave out any saltpeter or prague powder the recipe may
>>>call for.
>>
>>
>> Is it expensive? How heavy is the package?
> IIRC a 2 lb package cost me about $3. You don't use a lot so that
> amount will go a long ways. I found it in the salts and spices aisle
> of the grocery store.

Thank you Hermione I am in Scotland and we can't find it here. I was
just weighing up the costs before I ask a friend to send some

Reg wrote:
> zxcvbob wrote:
>
>> As a rule-of-thumb, you just substitute TenderQuick for the salt in a
>> recipe, and leave out any saltpeter or prague powder the recipe may
>> call for.
>
>
> TQ contains 0.5% sodium nitrite. Prague #1 contains 6.5% sodium
> nitrite.
>
> So, if you sub TQ for prague #1 you'll cut the amount of sodium
> nitrite by over 90%. You might not want that, but there's no
> way to say for sure without seeing the specific recipe.
>
> You can't sub TQ for prague #2 under any conditions.
>


I said sub TQ for the salt and ignore the prague powder.

TQ has both nitrite and nitrate.

Best regards,
Bob

Ophelia wrote:
> "Hermione" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Ophelia wrote:
>>
>>>"zxcvbob" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Pete C. wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I was shopping in a supermarket I don't normally visit. Looking
>>>>>around
>>>>>for anything interesting I found a bag of Morton Tenderquick. Now
>>>>>what
>>>>>do I do with it?
>>>>>
>>>>>Pete C.
>>>>
>>>>Make some cured sausage, or brine a turkey with it and smoke it, or
>>>>make your own bacon, or...
>>>>
>>>>As a rule-of-thumb, you just substitute TenderQuick for the salt in a
>>>>recipe, and leave out any saltpeter or prague powder the recipe may
>>>>call for.
>>>
>>>
>>>Is it expensive? How heavy is the package?
>>
>>IIRC a 2 lb package cost me about $3. You don't use a lot so that
>>amount will go a long ways. I found it in the salts and spices aisle
>>of the grocery store.
>
>
> Thank you Hermione I am in Scotland and we can't find it here. I was
> just weighing up the costs before I ask a friend to send some
>
>


You'd be better off having them send you a pound of prague powder and
buying your own salt and stuff. A pound of prague powder will cure
hundreds of pounds of meat.

Check with butcherpacker.com and see if they will ship a pound of
"modern cure" (same as prague #1) to you.

Best regards,
Bob


Bob

Hermione wrote:
>
> Pete C. wrote:
>
> > I was shopping in a supermarket I don't normally visit. Looking around
> > for anything interesting I found a bag of Morton Tenderquick. Now what
> > do I do with it?
> >
> > Pete C.
>
> Morton's TenderQuick is used for curing meats.

Er, I got that part. Looking for ideas / recipes now that I've got the
stuff.

Pete C.

"zxcvbob" > wrote in message
...
> Ophelia wrote:
>> "Hermione" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>Ophelia wrote:
>>>
>>>>"zxcvbob" > wrote in message
...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Pete C. wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I was shopping in a supermarket I don't normally visit. Looking
>>>>>>around
>>>>>>for anything interesting I found a bag of Morton Tenderquick. Now
>>>>>>what
>>>>>>do I do with it?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Pete C.
>>>>>
>>>>>Make some cured sausage, or brine a turkey with it and smoke it, or
>>>>>make your own bacon, or...
>>>>>
>>>>>As a rule-of-thumb, you just substitute TenderQuick for the salt in
>>>>>a recipe, and leave out any saltpeter or prague powder the recipe
>>>>>may call for.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Is it expensive? How heavy is the package?
>>>
>>>IIRC a 2 lb package cost me about $3. You don't use a lot so that
>>>amount will go a long ways. I found it in the salts and spices aisle
>>>of the grocery store.
>>
>>
>> Thank you Hermione I am in Scotland and we can't find it here. I
>> was just weighing up the costs before I ask a friend to send some
>
>
> You'd be better off having them send you a pound of prague powder and
> buying your own salt and stuff. A pound of prague powder will cure
> hundreds of pounds of meat.
>
> Check with butcherpacker.com and see if they will ship a pound of
> "modern cure" (same as prague #1) to you.

That's great Bob thanks Does it keep well?

Ophelia wrote:
> "zxcvbob" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Ophelia wrote:
>>
>>>"Hermione" > wrote in message
...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Ophelia wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"zxcvbob" > wrote in message
...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Pete C. wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I was shopping in a supermarket I don't normally visit. Looking
>>>>>>>around
>>>>>>>for anything interesting I found a bag of Morton Tenderquick. Now
>>>>>>>what
>>>>>>>do I do with it?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Pete C.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Make some cured sausage, or brine a turkey with it and smoke it, or
>>>>>>make your own bacon, or...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>As a rule-of-thumb, you just substitute TenderQuick for the salt in
>>>>>>a recipe, and leave out any saltpeter or prague powder the recipe
>>>>>>may call for.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Is it expensive? How heavy is the package?
>>>>
>>>>IIRC a 2 lb package cost me about $3. You don't use a lot so that
>>>>amount will go a long ways. I found it in the salts and spices aisle
>>>>of the grocery store.
>>>
>>>
>>>Thank you Hermione I am in Scotland and we can't find it here. I
>>>was just weighing up the costs before I ask a friend to send some
>>
>>
>>You'd be better off having them send you a pound of prague powder and
>>buying your own salt and stuff. A pound of prague powder will cure
>>hundreds of pounds of meat.
>>
>>Check with butcherpacker.com and see if they will ship a pound of
>>"modern cure" (same as prague #1) to you.
>
>
> That's great Bob thanks Does it keep well?
>
>


Yes, it will last forever if you keep it dry.

Bob

"zxcvbob" > wrote in message
...
> Ophelia wrote:
>>
>> That's great Bob thanks Does it keep well?
>
>
> Yes, it will last forever if you keep it dry.

Many thanks Bob))

Charlie wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 19:16:54 -0600, zxcvbob >
> wrote:
>
>
>
>>Make some cured sausage, or brine a turkey with it and smoke it, or make
>>your own bacon, or...
>
>
>
> Did you like the results of the smoked turkey brined with tenderquick?
>
> I've thought about subbing tenderquick for salt in my aromatic brine
> mix.
>
> And did you brine the bird as long as one normally brines a whole
> turkey... 24 - 48 hours?
>
> Thanks
> Charlie


My brother brined turkeys in TenderQuick a couple of times many years
ago. I think he brined them for a day or two and then cooked them in a
hot smoker without much smoke. The dark meat was just like ham, and the
white meat was very light pink and resembled both turkey breast and ham.

The brine would have been a lot stronger than what folks normally use to
brine a turkey -- like what you'd use to cure a ham. (I've never figured
out why anybody brines a turkey before roasting it)

Bob

zxcvbob wrote:

> Reg wrote:
>
>> zxcvbob wrote:
>>
>>> As a rule-of-thumb, you just substitute TenderQuick for the salt in a
>>> recipe, and leave out any saltpeter or prague powder the recipe may
>>> call for.
>>
>>
>>
>> TQ contains 0.5% sodium nitrite. Prague #1 contains 6.5% sodium
>> nitrite.
>>
>> So, if you sub TQ for prague #1 you'll cut the amount of sodium
>> nitrite by over 90%. You might not want that, but there's no
>> way to say for sure without seeing the specific recipe.
>>
>> You can't sub TQ for prague #2 under any conditions.
>>
>
>
> I said sub TQ for the salt and ignore the prague powder.
>

In a recipe with no extra salt that has the effect of replacing
the prague #1 (nitrite content: 6.25%) with TQ (nitrite content:
0.5%), which is a reduction of the sodium nitrite of over 90%.
Using that method, the original recipe would have to have a
huge amount of added salt in order for the nitrite level to
be anything close to the original.

Some recipes can be safely modified this way, others can't. It
depends on how much the nitrite is intended as a preservative.

Better to calculate the amount(s) required to substitute so
you end up with the same level of salt and nitrite. Safer,
certainly, plus the recipe will taste the same.

TQ:
0.5% sodium nitrite
0.5% sodium nitrate

Prague #1:
6.25% sodium nitrite
93.75% salt

Prague #2:
5.67% sodium nitrite
3.63% sodium nitrate
90.70% salt

Overall, I agree with your point that it's better to use
prague #1 and salt rather than TQ. It's definitely more
flexible.

You can easily sub prague #1 and salt for TQ and end up
with the same amount of salt and nitrite. You can't do it
the other way around though.

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

Reg wrote:
> zxcvbob wrote:
>
>> Reg wrote:
>>
>>> zxcvbob wrote:
>>>
>>>> As a rule-of-thumb, you just substitute TenderQuick for the salt in
>>>> a recipe, and leave out any saltpeter or prague powder the recipe
>>>> may call for.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> TQ contains 0.5% sodium nitrite. Prague #1 contains 6.5% sodium
>>> nitrite.
>>>
>>> So, if you sub TQ for prague #1 you'll cut the amount of sodium
>>> nitrite by over 90%. You might not want that, but there's no
>>> way to say for sure without seeing the specific recipe.
>>>
>>> You can't sub TQ for prague #2 under any conditions.
>>>
>>
>>
>> I said sub TQ for the salt and ignore the prague powder.
>>
>
> In a recipe with no extra salt that has the effect of replacing
> the prague #1 (nitrite content: 6.25%) with TQ (nitrite content:
> 0.5%), which is a reduction of the sodium nitrite of over 90%.

Show me one recipe that uses P #1 and does not use salt.


> Using that method, the original recipe would have to have a
> huge amount of added salt in order for the nitrite level to
> be anything close to the original.
>
> Some recipes can be safely modified this way, others can't. It
> depends on how much the nitrite is intended as a preservative.

I said it was a "rule of thumb". Rules of thumb don't always work for
every case. I haven't found a case yet where this one won't.

> Better to calculate the amount(s) required to substitute so
> you end up with the same level of salt and nitrite. Safer,
> certainly, plus the recipe will taste the same.

I agree with that. But there are lots of recipes floating around that
call for salt and dubious amounts of saltpeter. You would be better off
using the TQ, unless you wanted to redo the recipe using salt and prague
powder and calculate the nitrite yourself (ignore the saltpeter in the
original recipe)

Tonight I'll look up a few professional curing recipes and see what the
affect would be of leaving out the cure and subbing TQ for the salt. (I
think it will be close, except for the sugar in the TQ.)

>
> TQ:
> 0.5% sodium nitrite
> 0.5% sodium nitrate
>
> Prague #1:
> 6.25% sodium nitrite
> 93.75% salt
>
> Prague #2:
> 5.67% sodium nitrite
> 3.63% sodium nitrate
> 90.70% salt
>
> Overall, I agree with your point that it's better to use
> prague #1 and salt rather than TQ. It's definitely more
> flexible.
>
> You can easily sub prague #1 and salt for TQ and end up
> with the same amount of salt and nitrite. You can't do it
> the other way around though.


Best regards,
Bob

On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 16:44:20 -0600, Charlie wrote:

>We like to use fresh turkeys and I always have a devil of a time
>getting getting them salty enough and they also tend towards dryness,
>without brining. Same for chicken that we grill. The salt just won't
>penetrate the skin or deep into the meat, so chicken goes in the brine
>bucket as well. We also use different juices, spices, wines etc. and
>deeply flavor the meat.
>
>Most frozen turkeys are already brined and seasoned and roast up quite
>well and remain moist, though I still brine them for flavoring and a
>little more saltiness.

I've only brined/smoked/roasted one turkey with the quik-kure instead
of salt, found it too salty.( esp the gravy!)
If I did it again, I'd just use less cure mix.

Charlie wrote:
>
> On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 01:05:14 GMT, "Pete C." >
> wrote:
>
> >I was shopping in a supermarket I don't normally visit. Looking around
> >for anything interesting I found a bag of Morton Tenderquick. Now what
> >do I do with it?
> >
> >Pete C.
>
> Shoot, I meant to include this url as well.
>
> http://www.mortonsalt.com/recipes/re...p?all=no&cat=6
>
> --
> Charlie

Found the stuff on the Morton site last night. Printed out the Canadian
Bacon recipe today and picked up a boneless pork loin tonight. I'll be
doing the trimming and rubbing shortly. Seems like a good thing to try
first.

Pete C.

zxcvbob wrote:

> I agree with that. But there are lots of recipes floating around that
> call for salt and dubious amounts of saltpeter. You would be better off
> using the TQ, unless you wanted to redo the recipe using salt and prague
> powder and calculate the nitrite yourself (ignore the saltpeter in the
> original recipe)

No question about it, stay away from saltpeter. It's archaic.
I've seen substitution charts for it but I've never used them. I
just redo the recipes from the ground up using specific target
levels for salt and nitrite/nitrate.

> Tonight I'll look up a few professional curing recipes and see what the
> affect would be of leaving out the cure and subbing TQ for the salt. (I
> think it will be close, except for the sugar in the TQ.)

Not a bad idea. Let's take a shot at it.

We'll estimate the effect using a well known recipe for Smoked
Polish Sausage [1], which contains 2 t prague #1 and 5 T salt
per 10 lbs of meat.

The original recipe contains the standard 1 oz prague #1
per 25 lbs of meat, resulting in a sodium nitrite content
of 156 ppm, rounded off.

Using your rule of thumb, we'll substitute Tenderquick for
the salt and leave out the prague #1,

TQ weighs 183 g per cup [2]

5 T of TQ weighs 57.2 g

57.2 g x 0.5% (the % nitrite in TQ) = 0.2859375 g sodium nitrite

In direct addition to 10 lbs of meat, this results in
a 63 ppm sodium nitrite content.

As you can see, we've gone from 156 ppm to 63 ppm using
the rule of thumb. That's not necessarily bad. It depends.
In a recipe where nitrites are used for color and flavor, it
only has the effect of changing color and flavor. Where
nitrites are used for preservation however, it could
be a problem.

There is certainly a reduction in preservation effect by
using this substitution. It's non-linear so more calculations
are required.

Using a well known model for pathogen growth [3], specifically
for a common type known as Staphylococcus aureus, we'll
calculate the effect of lowering the amount of nitrite from
150 ppm to 63 ppm in a medium of beef broth.

First we'll assign some parameters, some of which are
intended to approximate the conditions in the sausage recipe.
These will be the same across both calculations, i.e. we will
only modify the nitrite level, leaving all other parameters
the same.

Temp: 70 F
PH: 5.6
NaCL 2%, resulting in water activity level of 0.989
Conditions are aerobic

Using the above parameters in the aforementioned mathematical
model with the original 150 ppm amount of sodium nitrite,
we get the following pathogen growth curve (data available
in table form on request):

<http://pages.sbcglobal.net/barber21/tmp/150ppm.gif>

Using the same parameters with the same model but plugging in
a 63 ppm sodium nitrite level, we get this growth curve:

<http://pages.sbcglobal.net/barber21/tmp/63ppm.gif>

There's no question that there's a reduction in anti microbial
effect with respect to S aureus. At 150 ppm, the time to
increase bacteria level by 3 logs is 59.6 hours (to locate this
on the chart, note where the line crosses the X axis at 6.0 on
the Y axis).

When the nitrite level is lowered to 63 ppm, the time shortens
to 40.1 hours. That's a reduction of about 1/3, which is
certainly significant. It shows a substantial increase in
rate of bug growth.

The moral of the story is, I think, that it's fairly safe to
experiment with nitrites where they're only used for effecting
flavor and color, but one should be much more careful when
nitrites/nitrates are included in the recipe as a preservative.
The key is knowing the difference.

Your rule of thumb is just fine in some cases, not so much
in others. It particularly begs extra attention when applied
to prague #2, i.e. dry cured recipes, where the item is not
cooked at all and one is especially dependent on the cure itself
to prevent pathogen growth. It might also be a problem in smoked
sausage recipes where botulism is a risk.

I learn a whole lot from reading your posts BTW, and I admire
your depth and breadth of knowledge.

[1] Great Sausage Recipes and Meat Curing, Rytek Kutas, 3rd
edition, page 214

[2] Common salt weights, in grams per cup

Morton Table 295
Morton Kosher 215
Morton Curing and Pickling 284
Morton TQ 183
Diamond Crystal Canning/Pickling 284
Diamond Crystal Kosher 129
Prague Powder #1 256

[3] R.L. Buchanan, J.L. Smith, C. McColgan, B.S. Marmer, M.H.
Golden and B.J. Dell, Response Surface Models for the
Effects of Temperature, pH, Sodium Chloride, and Sodium
Nitrite on the Aerobic and Anaerobic Growth of Staphylococcus
aureus 196E: Journal of Food Safety (1993) 13:159-175
http://www.arserrc.gov/MFS/HTML/ERRCPubs/5865.pdf

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

Heres a recipe that was making the rounds many years ago that uses
Mortons Tender quick

Home made Summer Sausage
4 lb ground beef
1/4 tsp onion powder
1/4 garlic powder
1 TBS liquid smoke
4 TBS MOrtons Tender Quick
2 cups water

Mix ingredients, make in 2 rolls, wrap in aluminum foil and refrigerate
for 24 hours. Cover with water and cook 1 hour. Remove, open foil to
drain and cool, Wrap in new foil and freeze.

Connie TenClay wrote:
>
> Heres a recipe that was making the rounds many years ago that uses
> Mortons Tender quick
>
> Home made Summer Sausage
> 4 lb ground beef
> 1/4 tsp onion powder
> 1/4 garlic powder
> 1 TBS liquid smoke
> 4 TBS MOrtons Tender Quick
> 2 cups water
>
> Mix ingredients, make in 2 rolls, wrap in aluminum foil and refrigerate
> for 24 hours. Cover with water and cook 1 hour. Remove, open foil to
> drain and cool, Wrap in new foil and freeze.
>
>

Needs some more spices. I suggest 7 grams each of mustard powder and
cracked black pepper, and either 2 grams of nutmeg or mace, or 4 grams
of coriander. (I don't know how that converts to teaspoons)

Bob

Reg wrote:
> zxcvbob wrote:
>
>> I agree with that. But there are lots of recipes floating around that
>> call for salt and dubious amounts of saltpeter. You would be better
>> off using the TQ, unless you wanted to redo the recipe using salt and
>> prague powder and calculate the nitrite yourself (ignore the saltpeter
>> in the original recipe)
>
>
> No question about it, stay away from saltpeter. It's archaic.
> I've seen substitution charts for it but I've never used them. I
> just redo the recipes from the ground up using specific target
> levels for salt and nitrite/nitrate.
>
>> Tonight I'll look up a few professional curing recipes and see what
>> the affect would be of leaving out the cure and subbing TQ for the
>> salt. (I think it will be close, except for the sugar in the TQ.)
>
>
> Not a bad idea. Let's take a shot at it.
>
> We'll estimate the effect using a well known recipe for Smoked
> Polish Sausage [1], which contains 2 t prague #1 and 5 T salt
> per 10 lbs of meat.
>
> The original recipe contains the standard 1 oz prague #1
> per 25 lbs of meat, resulting in a sodium nitrite content
> of 156 ppm, rounded off.
>
> Using your rule of thumb, we'll substitute Tenderquick for
> the salt and leave out the prague #1,
>
> TQ weighs 183 g per cup [2]
>
> 5 T of TQ weighs 57.2 g
>
> 57.2 g x 0.5% (the % nitrite in TQ) = 0.2859375 g sodium nitrite
>
> In direct addition to 10 lbs of meat, this results in
> a 63 ppm sodium nitrite content.
>
> As you can see, we've gone from 156 ppm to 63 ppm using
> the rule of thumb. That's not necessarily bad. It depends.
> In a recipe where nitrites are used for color and flavor, it
> only has the effect of changing color and flavor. Where
> nitrites are used for preservation however, it could
> be a problem.
>
> There is certainly a reduction in preservation effect by
> using this substitution. It's non-linear so more calculations
> are required.
>
> Using a well known model for pathogen growth [3], specifically
> for a common type known as Staphylococcus aureus, we'll
> calculate the effect of lowering the amount of nitrite from
> 150 ppm to 63 ppm in a medium of beef broth.
>
> First we'll assign some parameters, some of which are
> intended to approximate the conditions in the sausage recipe.
> These will be the same across both calculations, i.e. we will
> only modify the nitrite level, leaving all other parameters
> the same.
>
> Temp: 70 F
> PH: 5.6
> NaCL 2%, resulting in water activity level of 0.989
> Conditions are aerobic
>
> Using the above parameters in the aforementioned mathematical
> model with the original 150 ppm amount of sodium nitrite,
> we get the following pathogen growth curve (data available
> in table form on request):
>
> <http://pages.sbcglobal.net/barber21/tmp/150ppm.gif>
>
> Using the same parameters with the same model but plugging in
> a 63 ppm sodium nitrite level, we get this growth curve:
>
> <http://pages.sbcglobal.net/barber21/tmp/63ppm.gif>
>
> There's no question that there's a reduction in anti microbial
> effect with respect to S aureus. At 150 ppm, the time to
> increase bacteria level by 3 logs is 59.6 hours (to locate this
> on the chart, note where the line crosses the X axis at 6.0 on
> the Y axis).
>
> When the nitrite level is lowered to 63 ppm, the time shortens
> to 40.1 hours. That's a reduction of about 1/3, which is
> certainly significant. It shows a substantial increase in
> rate of bug growth.
>
> The moral of the story is, I think, that it's fairly safe to
> experiment with nitrites where they're only used for effecting
> flavor and color, but one should be much more careful when
> nitrites/nitrates are included in the recipe as a preservative.
> The key is knowing the difference.
>
> Your rule of thumb is just fine in some cases, not so much
> in others. It particularly begs extra attention when applied
> to prague #2, i.e. dry cured recipes, where the item is not
> cooked at all and one is especially dependent on the cure itself
> to prevent pathogen growth. It might also be a problem in smoked
> sausage recipes where botulism is a risk.
>
> I learn a whole lot from reading your posts BTW, and I admire
> your depth and breadth of knowledge.
>
> [1] Great Sausage Recipes and Meat Curing, Rytek Kutas, 3rd
> edition, page 214
>
> [2] Common salt weights, in grams per cup
>
> Morton Table 295
> Morton Kosher 215
> Morton Curing and Pickling 284
> Morton TQ 183
> Diamond Crystal Canning/Pickling 284
> Diamond Crystal Kosher 129
> Prague Powder #1 256
>
> [3] R.L. Buchanan, J.L. Smith, C. McColgan, B.S. Marmer, M.H.
> Golden and B.J. Dell, Response Surface Models for the
> Effects of Temperature, pH, Sodium Chloride, and Sodium
> Nitrite on the Aerobic and Anaerobic Growth of Staphylococcus
> aureus 196E: Journal of Food Safety (1993) 13:159-175
> http://www.arserrc.gov/MFS/HTML/ERRCPubs/5865.pdf
>


The recipes I'm familiar with measure the salt and cure in ounces or
grams. I had no idea the densities of salt and TenderQuick are so
different. Substituting tablespoons of TQ for tablespoons of salt will
also not be enough salt.

I think the bacterial growth curve will not be as bad as you predict
because of the nitrate in the TQ, but I don't know how one would
actually factor that.

Thanks for a great job of research! I learned a few things.

Best regards,
Bob

zxcvbob wrote:
>
> Connie TenClay wrote:
> >
> > Heres a recipe that was making the rounds many years ago that uses
> > Mortons Tender quick
> >
> > Home made Summer Sausage
> > 4 lb ground beef
> > 1/4 tsp onion powder
> > 1/4 garlic powder
> > 1 TBS liquid smoke
> > 4 TBS MOrtons Tender Quick
> > 2 cups water
> >
> > Mix ingredients, make in 2 rolls, wrap in aluminum foil and refrigerate
> > for 24 hours. Cover with water and cook 1 hour. Remove, open foil to
> > drain and cool, Wrap in new foil and freeze.
> >
> >
>
> Needs some more spices. I suggest 7 grams each of mustard powder and
> cracked black pepper, and either 2 grams of nutmeg or mace, or 4 grams
> of coriander.


> (I don't know how that converts to teaspoons)

You can't, one is weight and one is volume, and the weight / volume
ratio varies depending on what you are measuring, how finely ground it
is, etc.

Pete C.


>
> Bob

zxcvbob wrote:

> The recipes I'm familiar with measure the salt and cure in ounces or
> grams. I had no idea the densities of salt and TenderQuick are so
> different. Substituting tablespoons of TQ for tablespoons of salt will
> also not be enough salt.


The densities vary a lot by brand, too. I did a matrix of conversion
factors awhile back. The best approach is to use a scale, but it
has been useful a few times in the field when I didn't have one.

<http://pages.sbcglobal.net/barber21/tmp/SaltWeights.xls>

> I think the bacterial growth curve will not be as bad as you predict
> because of the nitrate in the TQ, but I don't know how one would
> actually factor that.
>
> Thanks for a great job of research! I learned a few things.

Thanks back. I enjoyed kicking this one around with you.

--
Reg email: RegForte (at) (that free MS email service) (dot) com

Pete C. wrote:

> Hermione wrote:
>
>>Pete C. wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I was shopping in a supermarket I don't normally visit. Looking around
>>>for anything interesting I found a bag of Morton Tenderquick. Now what
>>>do I do with it?
>>>
>>>Pete C.
>>
>>Morton's TenderQuick is used for curing meats.
>
>
> Er, I got that part. Looking for ideas / recipes now that I've got the
> stuff.
>
> Pete C.

My apologies Pete. I thought you were just asking what it was used for
as in a generic question. I use TQ to make peameal bacon, venison
sausage, and other types of meat sausages. Here's a website I found
useful for recipes using TQ. HTH and good luck with curing meats.
http://66.148.61.35/store.htm

Hermione wrote:
> Bart wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 19:16:54 -0600, zxcvbob >
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Pete C. wrote:
>>>
>>>> I was shopping in a supermarket I don't normally visit. Looking around
>>>> for anything interesting I found a bag of Morton Tenderquick. Now what
>>>> do I do with it?
>>>>
>>>> Pete C.
>>>
>>>
>>> Make some cured sausage, or brine a turkey with it and smoke it, or
>>> make your own bacon, or...
>>>
>>> As a rule-of-thumb, you just substitute TenderQuick for the salt in a
>>> recipe, and leave out any saltpeter or prague powder the recipe may
>>> call for.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> Bob
>>
>>
>>
>> I guess it's similar to "Sifto Quik-kure" here in Canada.
>
>
> Bart, I'm in Canada but have not seen the Sifto Quik-kure. Where did
> you get it? I'll take a look to see if I can find it. The Morton's
> TenderQuick is sold in Canada by Windsor Salt so you can find it in
> larger grocery stores likely were the salt and spices are. You can
> likely find it easier in areas where hunting is popular too.
>
>> I use it for making corned beef & jerky & yes, brining a turkey prior
>> to smoking (but only once!)
>
>
> I've never used curing salt to make jerky. I've just marinated it then
> dehydrated. How does using curing salt change the flavour or texture
> and does it allow for longer storage of the jerky?
>
>> Here's the ingredients of the Sifto;
>> Content:
>> 91.5% Sodium Chloride
>> 6.0% Sucrose
>> 1.5% Monosodium Glutamate
>> 0.4% Sodium Nitrite
>> 0.6% Sodium Nitrate
>> Keep out of reach of children <--{that's weird!}

Not really, look at the sodium content alone. Keep it out of my reach
also, I'm a heart patient and forbidden that much sodium in anything.
The 6% sucrose would make it taste both salty and sweet, small
children's favorite taste.

I make jerky just like you do Hermione, and then I vacuum seal it in a
gallon jar and reseal once opened and snacks withdrawn. I don't know how
long it would really last as my grands and greatgrands tend to visit
once they know Granpa has some jerky on hand and then the jerky
disappears. <VBG>

George

On Sun, 20 Nov 2005 13:01:04 -0500, Hermione >
wrote:


>> I guess it's similar to "Sifto Quik-kure" here in Canada.
>
>Bart, I'm in Canada but have not seen the Sifto Quik-kure. Where did
>you get it? I'll take a look to see if I can find it. The Morton's
>TenderQuick is sold in Canada by Windsor Salt so you can find it in
>larger grocery stores likely were the salt and spices are. You can
>likely find it easier in areas where hunting is popular too.
Can't remember where I purchased it.
The box is ~ 2 years old & has ~ 5 Tbs. left in it.
It's probably discontinued, as are most good products.
Just checked Safeway, nope! The Sifto website is useless.
>> I use it for making corned beef & jerky & yes, brining a turkey prior
>> to smoking (but only once!)
>
>I've never used curing salt to make jerky. I've just marinated it then
>dehydrated. How does using curing salt change the flavour or texture
>and does it allow for longer storage of the jerky?
>
I just used in place of salt, along with the usual liquid smoke ( if I
don't put it on the smoker) , garlic powder & whatever( I like salty
jerky,..all full of chemicals!) ;-)

"Pete C." wrote:
>
> Charlie wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, 18 Nov 2005 01:05:14 GMT, "Pete C." >
> > wrote:
> >
> > >I was shopping in a supermarket I don't normally visit. Looking around
> > >for anything interesting I found a bag of Morton Tenderquick. Now what
> > >do I do with it?
> > >
> > >Pete C.
> >
> > Shoot, I meant to include this url as well.
> >
> > http://www.mortonsalt.com/recipes/re...p?all=no&cat=6
> >
> > --
> > Charlie
>
> Found the stuff on the Morton site last night. Printed out the Canadian
> Bacon recipe today and picked up a boneless pork loin tonight. I'll be
> doing the trimming and rubbing shortly. Seems like a good thing to try
> first.
>
> Pete C.

It's done and came out pretty good. Not quite like the typical Canadian
bacon I've had, but good. I'll probably do some sausage as the next
project.

Pete C.