General (rec.food.drink) For general discussions related to drink that are NOT appropriate for other forums.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 07-07-2007, 11:00 PM posted to alt.food.wine,rec.food.drink,nyc.food,ba.food,alt.california
external usenet poster
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 22
Default What's in Wine--you don't wanna know -- Vinovation's Smith Scoffs at Noxious wine-additives Spi suggestions

Prev Next Normal view To:
From: NewsMax Health

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

6. Whats in Wine? (You May Not Want to Know)

You know the old saw about sausage the one that says if you love it,
you should never watch it being made. Well, it turns out the same
thing may be true about wine, and the government may end up being as
heavily in involved in policing the making of wine as it is in the
grinding of sausage: Federal regulators are contemplating changing the
rules for wine labels, and after you read a new label or two, you may
never drink another drop.

It turns out that labels may have to tell whats really in that fancy
bottle, and common ingredients in wine are (no joke) fish, milk,
chicken, and wheat products. Sometimes an agent called Mega Purple is
thrown in for coloring. (It comes in purple, red, pink, and white.)
Sometimes oak chips are added, and other additives may include grape
juice concentrate, tartaric acid, oak gall nuts, citric acid,
dissolved oxygen, water, copper, and other items too numerous to
mention.

No one doubts that such labeling would tend to take the romance and
mystery out of buying wine, since current labels focus on things like
special soils, ideal climate conditions, and the arcane knowledge and
ancient skills of little old winemakers. Current rules only require
that labels disclose alcohol content and whether sulfites are present,
and must warn against drinking when pregnant or while driving. And
this is the way the Wine Institute, which is the industrys primary
lobbying arm, says it should be.

The Wine Institute says ingredient labels would bring traditional wine-
making practices into public controversy for no good reason. Clark
Smith, chairman of Vinovation, a California firm that uses additives
to turn not-so-great vats of wine from over 1,000 winery clients into
salable goods, said, Why freak out the ignorant when we are adjusting
something that is already there in the wine?

On the other hand, industry consultants like Leo McCloskey, president
of Enologix, a California company that has analyzed over 70,000 wines,
disagreed and said that the best wines dont rely on additives. The
wine industry is completely unregulated, he said. It would be useful
to have labels that detail everything in a wine. It would tell the
consumer what they are drinking.

The squabble stems from a 2004 congressional mandate which requires
labeling to disclose allergens, including specifically labeling for
alcoholic beverages. Currently, derivatives from milk, chicken, wheat,
and fish are allowed in wine, and the feds say people need to be
warned. These derivatives are used as fining agents during the wine-
making process (e.g., albumen from egg whites may be added to remove
tannins), and the Wine Institute says there is no way to prove the
allergens are actually present in wine.

Is there some slight trace of these agents left in the wine? It is
very difficult to detect, said Gordon Burns, co-founder of ETS
Laboratories, another California analysis company. How many wineries
practice some sort of fining? Burns says almost all of them to some
extent.

Before the 2004 mandate, the last attempt at labeling was when Jimmy
Carter tried to stick his nose in the vintners business. By the time
his administration got the regulations ready to roll out, however,
Reagan was in the White House and rescinded them with a stroke of the
executive pen before they could take effect.

Whos pushing for labeling this time around? A coalition of consumer
groups led by a well-known organization that many regard as suspect in
its intentions if not downright deceptive: the Center for Science in
the Public Interest. Proposed rules are expected to be published later
this year by the Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau.


-----------------------------------

ps;

and ps: campagna floated bad wine as bulk alcohol wihtout licensure
already and its out there and maybe vinovation perked it and because
campagna paid $2,000 for bush jr's primary in alexandria va and got
his phoney blue-blooded virginians to do likewise, he's getting a free
pas from the ttb? or so it seems.

doesn't swharzenegger know that bad practices can lead to the death of
an industry? he should ask his bootlegging relatives (the kennedy's )
about this or is smith a kennedy just following on ihe family
tradition?

so much for the california wine industry.


  #2 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 08-07-2007, 06:34 AM posted to alt.food.wine,rec.food.drink,nyc.food,ba.food,alt.california
external usenet poster
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 4
Default What's in Wine--you don't wanna know -- Vinovation's Smith Scoffs at Noxious wine-additives Spi suggestions

In article . com,
DENDRONISTA wrote:
Prev Next Normal view To:
From: NewsMax Health


Ah, yes, NewsMax, that paragon of journalistic integrity.

so much for the california wine industry.


Yes, this sort of stuff never happens in other wine-producing areas of
the world. Please get a grip, a clue, and out of ba.food.

rone
--
The Famous Pedant-o-Sig! | "With CALLOUS disregard for his
Suggestions to | pain, she ripped his CALLUS off."
  #3 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 08-07-2007, 08:31 AM posted to alt.food.wine,rec.food.drink,nyc.food,ba.food,alt.california
external usenet poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 362
Default What's in Wine--you don't wanna know -- Vinovation's Smith Scoffs at Noxious wine-additives Spi suggestions

If you really want to know:
http://www.awri.com.au/analytical_se...sp?additive=89

--
Steve Slatcher
http://pobox.com/~steve.slatcher
  #4 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 08-07-2007, 10:15 PM posted to alt.food.wine,rec.food.drink,nyc.food,ba.food,alt.california
external usenet poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 58
Default What's in Wine--you don't wanna know -- Vinovation's Smith Scoffs at Noxious wine-additives Spi suggestions

In article ,
Steve Slatcher wrote:
If you really want to know:
http://www.awri.com.au/analytical_se...sp?additive=89


That tells you additives permitted by country only. California
has restrictions that other states don't have. For example
chaptalization - adding sugar - isn't legal in California
(regardless of its alleged rampancy), although it's permitted and
downright necessary in other states that can't grow grapes with
sufficient sugar content.

-A
  #5 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 08-07-2007, 10:19 PM posted to alt.food.wine,rec.food.drink,nyc.food,ba.food,alt.california
external usenet poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 58
Default What's in Wine--you don't wanna know -- Vinovation's Smith Scoffs at Noxious wine-additives Spi suggestions

In article . com,
DENDRONISTA wrote:
It turns out that labels may have to tell whats really in that fancy
bottle, and common ingredients in wine are (no joke) fish, milk,
chicken, and wheat products.


Don't forget toe jam! Some of the best wine is stomped by feet, the
old fashioned way.

-A [happy that my uncle's winery adds nothing but what the grapes provide]


  #6 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 09-07-2007, 01:18 AM posted to alt.food.wine,rec.food.drink,nyc.food,ba.food,alt.california
external usenet poster
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 100
Default What's in Wine--you don't wanna know -- Vinovation's Smith Scoffs at Noxious wine-additives Spi suggestions

On Jul 7, 6:00 pm, DENDRONISTA wrote:
Prev Next Normal view To:
From: NewsMax Health

---------------------------------------------------------------------------*-----

6. Whats in Wine? (You May Not Want to Know)

You know the old saw about sausage the one that says if you love it,
you should never watch it being made. Well, it turns out the same
thing may be true about wine, and the government may end up being as
heavily in involved in policing the making of wine as it is in the
grinding of sausage: Federal regulators are contemplating changing the
rules for wine labels, and after you read a new label or two, you may
never drink another drop.


snip

As long as my bottle of juice doesn't have a high proportion of pork-
fat, I'm not bothered.

Dan-O

  #7 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 09-07-2007, 02:43 AM posted to alt.food.wine,rec.food.drink,nyc.food,ba.food,alt.california
external usenet poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 58
Default What's in Wine--you don't wanna know -- Vinovation's Smith Scoffsat Noxious wine-additives Spi suggestions

In article ,
Mike Tommasi wrote:
axlq wrote:
In article ,
Steve Slatcher wrote:
If you really want to know:
http://www.awri.com.au/analytical_se...sp?additive=89


That tells you additives permitted by country only. California
has restrictions that other states don't have. For example
chaptalization - adding sugar - isn't legal in California
(regardless of its alleged rampancy), although it's permitted and
downright necessary in other states that can't grow grapes with
sufficient sugar content.


Maybe those states should grow other other fruit...


Well, certain grapes grow best in areas outside California.
Muscadine, for example, does better in southeastern states like
Florida (that's where it's been grown since the 16th century).

The grape doesn't have as much natural sugar as other species -
but it has a higher resveratrol content than *any* other species,
giving the wine possible health benefits. Conversely, grapes like
Zinfandel, Cabernet Savignon, and Mission aren't suited for Florida.

-A
  #8 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 10-07-2007, 06:05 PM posted to alt.food.wine,rec.food.drink,nyc.food,ba.food,alt.california
external usenet poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 21
Default What's in Wine--you don't wanna know -- Vinovation's Smith Scoffs at Noxious wine-additives Spi suggestions

On Jul 7, 3:00 pm, DENDRONISTA wrote:

You know the old saw about sausage the one that says if you love it,
you should never watch it being made. Well, it turns out the same
thing may be true about wine,...


I'd much rather watch wine being made than sausages.

I'd have no problem spending the rest of my life working in a winary,
and I've considered going back to school and studying enology and
viticulture.

I don't think I'd mind watching sausages being made either. :-)
The turning the meat into sausages I don't see as being that bad to
watch.
I'm not sure I'd want to watch the parts that take place in
the slaughter house, however.

  #9 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 11-07-2007, 01:25 AM posted to alt.food.wine,rec.food.drink,nyc.food,ba.food,alt.california
external usenet poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 159
Default What's in Wine--you don't wanna know -- Vinovation's Smith Scoffs at Noxious wine-additives Spi suggestions

In article , (axlq)
wrote:

In article ,
Steve Slatcher wrote:
If you really want to know:
http://www.awri.com.au/analytical_se...sp?additive=89

That tells you additives permitted by country only. California
has restrictions that other states don't have. For example
chaptalization - adding sugar - isn't legal in California
(regardless of its alleged rampancy), although it's permitted and
downright necessary in other states that can't grow grapes with
sufficient sugar content.

-A


In California, you are more likely to add water to cut sugar.

D.M.
  #10 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 11-07-2007, 05:26 AM posted to alt.food.wine,rec.food.drink,nyc.food,ba.food,alt.california
external usenet poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 58
Default What's in Wine--you don't wanna know -- Vinovation's Smith Scoffs at Noxious wine-additives Spi suggestions

In article ,
Donald Martinich wrote:
In article , (axlq)
wrote:
Steve Slatcher wrote:
If you really want to know:
http://www.awri.com.au/analytical_se...sp?additive=89

That tells you additives permitted by country only. California
has restrictions that other states don't have. For example
chaptalization - adding sugar - isn't legal in California
(regardless of its alleged rampancy), although it's permitted and
downright necessary in other states that can't grow grapes with
sufficient sugar content.


In California, you are more likely to add water to cut sugar.


Actually, I don't see anyone adding water, but rather letting it
ferment and then using a molecular filter to remove the excess
alcohol. At least, that's true for smaller wineries specializing in
big-flavored reds; they absolutely don't want to water it down.

-A


  #11 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 11-07-2007, 03:28 PM posted to alt.food.wine,rec.food.drink,nyc.food,ba.food,alt.california
external usenet poster
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 141
Default What's in Wine--you don't wanna know -- Vinovation's Smith Scoffsat Noxious wine-additives Spi suggestions

axlq wrote:
In article ,
Steve Slatcher wrote:
If you really want to know:
http://www.awri.com.au/analytical_se...sp?additive=89


That tells you additives permitted by country only. California
has restrictions that other states don't have. For example
chaptalization - adding sugar - isn't legal in California
(regardless of its alleged rampancy),


Though adding sugar isn't legal in CA, adding concentrated grape
juice is. Afterall, what's wine but fermented grape juice? Look
for the blue plastic barrels outside winery production facilities...

Dana
  #12 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 11-07-2007, 03:30 PM posted to alt.food.wine,rec.food.drink,nyc.food,ba.food,alt.california
external usenet poster
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 141
Default What's in Wine--you don't wanna know -- Vinovation's Smith Scoffsat Noxious wine-additives Spi suggestions

axlq wrote:
In article ,
Donald Martinich wrote:
In article , (axlq)
wrote:
Steve Slatcher wrote:
If you really want to know:
http://www.awri.com.au/analytical_se...sp?additive=89
That tells you additives permitted by country only. California
has restrictions that other states don't have. For example
chaptalization - adding sugar - isn't legal in California
(regardless of its alleged rampancy), although it's permitted and
downright necessary in other states that can't grow grapes with
sufficient sugar content.

In California, you are more likely to add water to cut sugar.


Actually, I don't see anyone adding water, but rather letting it
ferment and then using a molecular filter to remove the excess
alcohol. At least, that's true for smaller wineries specializing in
big-flavored reds; they absolutely don't want to water it down.


It depends on what your goal is. Adding water is not uncommon,
but not in big-flavored wines.

Dana
  #13 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 11-07-2007, 09:18 PM posted to alt.food.wine,rec.food.drink,nyc.food,ba.food,alt.california
external usenet poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 58
Default What's in Wine--you don't wanna know -- Vinovation's Smith Scoffsat Noxious wine-additives Spi suggestions

In article ,
Dana Myers wrote:
axlq wrote:
In article ,
Steve Slatcher wrote:
If you really want to know:
http://www.awri.com.au/analytical_se...sp?additive=89


That tells you additives permitted by country only. California
has restrictions that other states don't have. For example
chaptalization - adding sugar - isn't legal in California
(regardless of its alleged rampancy),


Though adding sugar isn't legal in CA, adding concentrated grape
juice is. Afterall, what's wine but fermented grape juice? Look
for the blue plastic barrels outside winery production facilities...


Interesting. I never noticed that in any of the wineries I have
visited, but then, I don't visit the big commercial operations
(why should I when I can buy their wine more cheaply at Costco?).
Certainly the winery my family is involved in never does that. In
my view, you should get what you get from the grapes you grow, and
add nothing extra.

-A
  #14 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 13-07-2007, 09:32 PM posted to alt.food.wine,rec.food.drink,nyc.food,ba.food,alt.california
external usenet poster
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 141
Default What's in Wine--you don't wanna know -- Vinovation's Smith Scoffsat Noxious wine-additives Spi suggestions

axlq wrote:
In article ,
Dana Myers wrote:


Though adding sugar isn't legal in CA, adding concentrated grape
juice is. Afterall, what's wine but fermented grape juice? Look
for the blue plastic barrels outside winery production facilities...


Interesting. I never noticed that in any of the wineries I have
visited, but then, I don't visit the big commercial operations
(why should I when I can buy their wine more cheaply at Costco?).


It's not just the big commercial operations; small producers
might do it, too. The goal isn't always to increase alcohol;
the concentrate also adds color (at least one Wine Spectator
"Wine of the Year" in recent history from a very small
producer was rumored to have done exactly this).

Dana
  #15 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 14-07-2007, 01:12 AM posted to alt.food.wine,rec.food.drink,nyc.food,ba.food,alt.california
external usenet poster
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 58
Default What's in Wine--you don't wanna know -- Vinovation's Smith Scoffsat Noxious wine-additives Spi suggestions

In article ,
Dana Myers wrote:
Though adding sugar isn't legal in CA, adding concentrated grape
juice is. Afterall, what's wine but fermented grape juice? Look
for the blue plastic barrels outside winery production facilities...


Interesting. I never noticed that in any of the wineries I have
visited, but then, I don't visit the big commercial operations
(why should I when I can buy their wine more cheaply at Costco?).


It's not just the big commercial operations; small producers
might do it, too. The goal isn't always to increase alcohol;
the concentrate also adds color (at least one Wine Spectator
"Wine of the Year" in recent history from a very small
producer was rumored to have done exactly this).


I wonder if the difference can be tasted? For two reasons:

1. Wine is made from raw grapes, whereas concentrated grape juice is
(as far as I know) made from heated grape juice, which effectively
pasteurizes it and changes the flavor. Sort of like the difference
between fresh-squeezed orange juice and frozen concentrated orange
juice; the latter has been cooked, and tastes that way.

2. Concentrated grape juice (at least the frozen kind you buy in the
grocery store) is made from Concord grapes, which have a decidedly
different flavor than most wine varietals.

Maybe the concentrate is used only in blended wines? I can't see a
winemaker using it for varietal wines.

-A


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What's in Wine--you don't wanna know -- Vinovation's Smith Scoffs at Noxious wine-additives Spi suggestions DENDRONISTA Wine 20 14-07-2007 08:15 AM
Wine additives zara Wine 10 23-04-2005 06:50 AM
Wine Suggestions from Canadian Wine & Food Online Magazine - APRIL 2005 VINUM CANADA E-ZINE Wine 0 09-04-2005 06:13 AM
Wine Suggestions from Canadian Wine & Food Online Magazine - APRIL 2005 VINUM CANADA E-ZINE Wine 0 09-04-2005 06:06 AM
additives used in wine making Don S Winemaking 4 04-01-2004 06:56 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:36 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2019 FoodBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about Food and drink"

 

Copyright © 2017